A Psychologist and Historian Discuss the End of the World | Dr. Niall Ferguson | EP 404

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with historian and author Niall Ferguson. They discuss the historical and deeply mythological precedent of world-ending narratives, how the global doomsday ethos abdicates local responsibility while empowering the elite class, the out-of-control gigantism plaguing our administrative states today, and how we might strive to deal with genuine tragedy morally, religiously, and with humility.
Niall Ferguson is a Scottish-American historian, author, columnist, TV presenter, and academic. He is the Milbank Family Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution of Stanford University, as well as a senior fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard University. Ferguson has written many books, such as “Empire: How Britain Made the Modern World,” “Colossus: The Rise and Fall of the American Empire,” “The Square and the Tower,” and most recently, “Doom: The Politics of Catastrophe,” which has been shortlisted for the Lionel Gelber prize.
This episode was filmed on October 12th, 2023
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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- Chapters -
(0:00) Coming up
(0:33) Intro
(1:30) All worlds end, the permanence of death
(8:23) The duality of cataclysm and adventure
(10:41) The Book of Revelation: Spectacular imagery gives justification to the conceptualization of God
(11:35) Why science fiction loves dystopian themes and a secular wasteland
(15:45) We would break Heaven for the excitement of Hell
(21:30) Asceticism: humanities strange tendency for self-harm in preparation for the end times
(29:00) Delusions of “the science,” virtue signaling over problem solving
(34:13) The Tower of Babel, and how this story reiterates across time
(37:59) This is the only “law” in the study of history
(39:58) We want to live in a “moral universe”
(42:06) Worldviews that outlive their eras and religious roots
(45:04) The “sin of Eve,” morality, and the tendency to overreach
(49:59) Oppenheimer, ethics and the ability to destroy
(54:24) Drinking the snake oil, why Oppenheimer was ineffective as a peace lobbyist
(56:53) Henry Kissinger: the cost of preemption and the necessity of action
(1:02:42) Every good leader should aspire to this
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[@andrews5320]

So it seems college level discourse has left the campus and come to KZbin where it can be accessible to everyone with a cell phone and a browser. It would seem culture is moving forward despite the common narrative from established interests. Thank you for this time well spent.

[@suomynonyyK]

You sound like quite the intellectual❤

[@hennersss]

You've said very little with so many words.

[@ivareskesner2019]

It is good to see a certain calibre of thought and learning being readily available to everybody, I agree. That said. Quality discourse has always been around. And _'college level'_ is by no means the pinnacle of scholastic engagement in this world. In fact it often is detrimental as it can take years of independent study and research to unlearn some of the bad habits learned in some disciplines.

[@carlosturciosolivera1899]

And the beauty is that it is "a la Carte"

[@Gweidemann]

​@@hennersssOr he's said so much with so few words. It depends on the viewpoint of the individual • and the mindset of the thinker.

[@Oscar-mr4uj]

A talk between Jordan Peterson and Tomas Sowell would break the internet

[@_munkykok_]

!!!

[@claudiapost-schultzke7216]

Nailed

[@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069]

Let him reture in peace as he wants to.

[@paulabezerra9210]

My dream😂😂😂

[@tnndll4294]

Yes. Sowell on the right & Henry Louis-Gates on the Left would be great.

[@lanevotapka4012]

I really want to commend Dr. Peterson for improving in the area of avoiding interrupting his guests. It used to be very distracting, but he has clearly worked on this.

[@JordanBPeterson]

Thank you. Return of health helps. As does less fear of on air silence.

[@johnricercato740]

What a graceful and humble response. Thank you@@JordanBPeterson

[@confrontpotential7133]

Yes! The interrupting was so annoying. My long-argued claim that @JordanBPeterson's intellect approaches genius, that everyone should be listening, is infinitely more defensible minus the interruptions.

[@janobrien1936]

It is an improvement. Could still improve.

[@suzieque9934]

​@@JordanBPetersonI find some on air silence extremely powerful

[@michellet.2432]

It blows my (average) mind to listen to such brilliance, but I'm not envious... in fact, I'm immensely thankful that I'm able to expand my own thinking and understanding by having these wondrous discussions so readily available to me. Thank you Dr. Peterson for the gift of these experiences.

[@PrinceAlhorian]

We are truly privileged to be allowed to freely share in the minds of these great men.

[@SirGalaEd]

As we all are

[@BannedByMe]

If you are not swiping tiktoks, have interest in such topics and the concentration to follow, you probably are above avarage.

[@PrinceAlhorian]

@@BannedByMe Not much of an achievement if you ask me.

[@BannedByMe]

@@PrinceAlhorian in itself, is not an achievement.

[@billhopen]

"solving global warming by installing solar cells created by burning coal in China" I love it! In one sentence, Niall vividly illustrates our political dystopian rule

[@randycliff4045]

Good observation. Sadly the western country citizens appear to long for some crying in the wilderness, without any actual suffering or any real effort, and latching onto climate crisis is the best social media conduit to dump endless bullshit into. And with that, getting to bask in the glow of some weird virtue, narcissistic tyrant PMs and geriatric presidents lack the balls or brain power to challenge the opinions of their voters, mostly because impressing the leaders of corrupt 3-letter international organizations is more important. It's 2023 and clear thinking has left the building.

[@shauntempley9757]

Yes. Because research was never done into alternatives for the technology. Now, we are at a point where we do this stuff now, or we fall. We have governments failing to recover from natural disasters, because they are getting more and more in number, are coming faster, and are stronger. No government can cope with all of that going on, and govern the population that is not affected at the same time without outside assistance from other knowledge and other governments.

[@monkeydog8681]

Things get created by burning coal. It is better to burn them creating renewables.

[@l000tube]

A propagandist and quack sit down and pontificate for an hour.

[@Pet-rf6rh]

Not to mention unethical lithium mines that use child labour and exploits the poor

[@user-ez3il1yy6i]

"The World Isn't Falling Apart , The Veil Of The World Wide Corruption Is" ... 100%

[@MamaGardner4Jesus]

Yes 🔥🔥🔥

[@josepicarra827]

Couldn’t agree more! That’s what I've been saying to people around me. It’s good that the truth is finally shining and burning all the lies.

[@chilliadmiralportsmouth221]

Me six years ago: If only Prof. Ferguson and Prof. Peterson would fireside one day. Me today: 😳🤯😎 This is what you call an 'epoch moment'. Thank you both. 🙏

[@iro4201]

Congratulations, you're a prophet.

[@jaca9561]

@chilliadmiralportsmouth221 Very true, I would also add that the discussion Elon Musk just had with Alex Jones and several other political commentators as an epoch moment for free speech on social media sites

[@chilliadmiralportsmouth221]

@@jaca9561 Agreed! Equally mind blowing that one. We're getting treated for Christmas.

[@warnerchandler9826]

The word you were looking for was 'epic,' not 'epoch.'

[@JohnGodwin777]

@@warnerchandler9826 ::whoosh:: 😂, he intentionally made a very clever pun and you missed it. I came here to comment that I normally loathe puns but that one got me

[@PrinceAlhorian]

Thank you doctors Peterson and Ferguson for this illuminating conversation and allowing us, the common folk with the simple minds, to indulge in a classical academic conversation. Civilized, educated, eloquent and enlightening. It is thanks to academics like yourselves (who still have critical minds and post their work publicly) that in this turbulent age of malaise and manufactured outrage, I have received a better education than my degree provided me a decade ago. Descartes classic "I think therefore I am", I have taken and reversed to be more applicable to myself: "I am therefore I must think." I prefer to "think" about the matters that you both discuss. Once again, Thank You Doctors. Sit scientia mentis tuae sapientiam in cordibus nostris colens.

[@clivemarriott7749]

I think its one of the best ceremonies of our culture to listen appreciate and learn from brilliant minds discussing stuff. Long may it continue 🙏🙏.

[@freedomfrompsoriasis924]

I am delighted to say that I find Dr. Peterson's KZbin channel to be my form of continuing education at the age of 76. And I have learned more from his interviews (and a number of his friends' podcasts) than I ever did in all the years I went to university.

[@spinvalve]

My pre-extension of Descartes 'I think, therefore I am' is 'I question, therefore I think'. Admittedly less grandiose, but holds more true.

[@PrinceAlhorian]

@@spinvalve I see, i like the turn on it. For me it comes down to pure survival. I exist, and to thrive i have to engage my faculties. Ironic, that my moral compass steers me against the grain of today's society's preconceived conditions for survival and integration.

[@andrewcdavies21]

This episode has totally blown my mind. Learned more from this conversation than the entirety of my three year university education. This is going to take a very long time and so much thought / reading to unpack. The ending was extraordinary. Absolutely first class content. Thank you both.

[@neilmurdoch9789]

That is how you conduct a conversation. A Historian and a Psychologist managing to combine their understanding without interference.

[@scotty3514]

The way these 2 brilliant men just talked is how we should be sorting out our world problems with integrity and respect and a genuine intellect and a genuine care and desire to fix things and not to have the arrogance of not listening truly to each other until we find the answers together, not for praise or popularity but for genuine want of a better state of being which will bring a better world, thanks again Mr peterson and all your guests

[@eldaytripper2]

I appreciate how JP attempts to reiterate NF's comments after he has spoken. More interviewers should do this. I think NF makes some excellent points about apocalyptic thinking and the difficulty of political decision making.

[@WinkLinkletter]

He talks about doing that as a good dialectic tool in some other vids. It's really helpful to me.

[@kbjohns64]

Am I the only one who found this conversation deep and personally challenging, but laughed hysterically when Dr Ferguson declared he was a lapsed atheist and church goer at the end? So good Dr Peterson!! Thank you!!!

[@alfredosaint-jean9660]

I loved that part.

[@kbjohns64]

@alfredosaint-jean9660 I've rewatched that part several times now... just awesome.

[@johnricercato740]

I agree. Brilliantly dramatic but also moving.

[@heatherduncan4945]

Love it

[@Pelthail]

You should definitely have him back. I feel like there’s a lot more of his wisdom and life experience that he could share with the world.

[@treebrother]

This was great. Throughout their discussion on all of the topics facing society that are all framed end of times issues, I couldn't help but constantly think of Elon's recent statement calling out what I believe Jordan and NIall were also covering and that's the issue of far too many only concerned with looking virtuous while actually doing and incentivizing evil, division, and destructiveness .

[@resurrectingexcellence]

Gaston from the beauty and the beast

[@karenphaneuf9548]

Well said.

[@dabrack9350]

Peterson's observation that the doomsday authorities think they can, by claiming to be focussed on an apocalyptic end of the world, absolve themselves of dealing with any lesser crises reminds me of my time as an accident investigator. All investigators learn that every accident is caused by a string of errors, any one of which if corrected would have prevented the accident.

[@treebrother]

@@dabrack9350 Interesting, Funny I just started coming across more and more individuals in the Veteran community starting to call out their own that are known to be corrupt and have gained wealth and status by coverups at the top but still an unwillingness of the majority within that brotherhood to unite and call it out. Which really was a new perspective for me after 20+ years of watching and experiencing our country's leaders and institution's showing their true colors as well. Witnessing the insane over the top policies and actions, Over and over and still the silent majority remains quiet. So ya, It made more sense that even if our oath keeper warrior class is not calling it out en masse, Why would we expect everyday working class to do so. I've heard more and more claiming that 2024 is going to be the year for exposure, justice, and a reckoning.

[@FreedomSpirit7]

I'm am so glad that I stumbled across Jordan Peterson by watching an interview with Dr. Oz. I knew nothing of Dr. Peterson. I knew of Dr. Niall Ferguson through watching C-Span. These brilliant minds together on the subject of the Apocalypse which delve deeper into Revelation, more Biblical content but yet not being dogmatic is brilliant. Thank you.

[@PastramiStaven]

Fear is used to control and divide us. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.

[@agingerbeard]

You mean like the fear of hell?

[@P.H.888]

You’re reading the wrong books 📚

[@JohnathanSimmons-jw3mr]

That’s a superficial statement. Fear can be used to control and divide but when fearing the correct thing it can control us which leads to self control with a basis and then can unite. Without fear there are no guard rails to contain one’s self and which leads to existential nihilism and/or luciferianism.

[@annamillar4794]

It's not fear like you think it is. It's fear of using ANOTHER year of my youth to the jealousy of women who HATE me

[@annamillar4794]

It's my youth that's under attack. It's my beauty. In that youth.

[@allenandrews2380]

An interesting aspect of the tower of babel is that it has a direction. It's moving towards " the throne of the most high' which means it's " progressing" toward " heaven" while simultaneously getting further away from its own foundation. Taking its history, it's people, and the very soil in which it sits, for granted. It's an "escape plan" of sorts but a perfect metaphor for how cultures descend into utopian delusions instead of embracing our role as Stuards of the earth and of each other. Without humility, we compete with our own offspring, and lose our ability to share a common history and narrative.

[@haraldthi]

These people had the tradition of building ziggurats, and like with pyramids some of them start out too steep so they had to adjust when they came towards the top. Can you imagine some very ambitious king who wanted to build the highest ziggurat of them all, reaching "all the way into the heavens", and he was so blindingly pressing on with this "great task" that he had no understanding of it developing into a disaster? So all it ended up with was people splitting up, going each their way and not talking except to threaten each others with weapons, until so much time had gone that they developed each their language? These stories can actually work in the real world, you just have to read them as highly compressed by having been told over and over again through generations, and where you can't be picky with details either as they can have been changed by time. I find it quite interesting, as there can be some really old history hidden in here.

[@giosven374]

In fact this describes what happens with goberment institutions and their burocracy, it is like they speak a diferent language. It also applies in the.corporate world.

[@darrenwolff3745]

Babel exists when there's insufficient opposition to bad ideas

[@rfphill]

​@@darrenwolff3745that distillation is really good, works for me...

[@marcbra5074]

Well said !

[@trubadorphotography2541]

Wow! This was not only an absolutely fascinating discussion, but also a completely surprising end to the discussion. 😲😃😌 Bravo! 👏🏻

[@majozishow]

Finally, my two favourite people in a conversation. Love it!

[@doc_phil]

Brilliant conversation, right? Thank you for being a shining a light in SA.

[@majozishow]

@@doc_philThank you very much sir!

[@jackiebyerly7408]

@@doc_phil same with me. Now I’m just waiting for a talk with Thomas Sowel.

[@doc_phil]

@@jackiebyerly7408 absolutely - I hope to JP and Sowell in conversation soon.

[@pgeorge3573]

Those ending comments by Dr Peterson and then the admission of the recent change in his worldview by Dr Ferguson was straight 🔥🔥. Went directly to DW+ for the rest.

[@MrAljab]

The gleam in Niall's eye towards the end..."Actually, I'm a lapsed atheist, and I go to church every Sunday", and JP's glad surprise. I'd estimate millions of Gen Z/millennials are in this camp

[@rumighoul]

Second Religiosity anyone?

[@jrsp6480]

I’d say I pretty much am. I still can’t believe in the existence of god as such but I’ve largely came around to think that there’s a lot of important truth and guidance in religious teachings that we would be fools to ignore. I define myself as an athiest that believes in the power of religion. I also pray sometimes. To who you then ask :) Not to a god but I’ll leave it at that for now as this ain’t a suitable medium to explore.

[@FirstNameLastName-oy2ji]

You'd be surprised at the psychological benefit of just believing there might be a god and what that might mean in terms of the notion that you were created from love as part of creation. @@jrsp6480

[@raddiemutto7934]

@@jrsp6480 The principle purpose of prayer is to give thanks. God is offended by those who do not profess His hand in all things. All good things do come from God. It is true we suffer war and disease and hardship etc. as we do live a in a fallen world. This fallen world is necessary, as we need to learn from our own experience the good from the evil, the sweet from the bitter, and that there is opposition in all things. God is the great creator - taking chaos and making order. So Jordan Peterson intuits correctly when he says "Go clean your bedroom" It is god-like behavior. God is the literal father of our spirits. We are created in his image, and likeness. This is not intended to be poetic or symbolic. God the great being that controls and orders this universe is in the form of a man. His name is Man of Holiness. Because we are his offspring , we have the potential to become like Him. The bridge between man and God is physical death, and spiritual death(sin). Because of Christ, all people on this earth will resurrect, and become immortal - thus conquering physical death. Spiritual death is only conquered through Christ on condition of repentance. God's most preferred title or name is Father, and while praying it is most pleasing to Him to address Him as such. Because God can not tolerate even the smallest of sins, we are only acceptable to Him through the merits of Christ. When praying it is pleasing to God that we pray in the name of Christ. I will stop there, as I know you didn't solicit a response, but your comment triggered me into speaking.

[@KevwePatani]

@@jrsp6480 As you talk to him and listen to his statutes, that is enough. The conceptualization of the person of "God" has been an ongoing struggle throughout human history

[@dislikebutton5722]

I would love to see Thomas Sowell and Jordan in an interview

[@RichardTavilla]

My two favorites

[@doc_phil]

Agreed. I would love to see that one.

[@Alex-mj5dv]

Likely not long left for Sowell so they should make it happen!

[@Alex-mj5dv]

Likely not long left for Sowell so they should make it happen!

[@dislikebutton5722]

@@Alex-mj5dv To me it’s absolutely amazing that Thomas is still as sharp now as he was in his videos from 50 years ago.

[@andrewp3358]

I loved this episode! Keep up the great work, Dr.Peterson!

[@joryiansmith]

This was a fascinating conversation! Thank you for sharing Jordan and Niall 🙏

[@advocate1563]

Love Niall Ferguson. Prescient in his books, and a clear thinker. Never miss Good Fellows from the Hoover Institute. Three sharp acadrmics and their guests discussing current events.

[@Ironrodpower]

I was once a Good Fellows Lover. Only show up for Naill and If the have VHD. Mostly they are Necons Mcmasters so excited with War....

[@seanmoran2743]

It’s very Western Centric though

[@patriciakimball8150]

@@Ironrodpowerbut don’t you gotta love Peter Robinson? I do.

[@patriciakimball8150]

⁠​⁠@@seanmoran2743True. Although I think the West should reassert itself (the best of it) in these chaotic and lying times. I hope one of these days they hook up with some Indians, possibly Abhirit Iyer Mitra..? (I’ve just recently started to check him out. Not what you’d call “a believer” but seems a promising historian). Some Jewish perspectives could be good, too, straddling East and West, as they do, while at the same time being foundational to the West. Just a thought (or perhaps a defensive reaction to your note that these guys are western-oriented.)

[@Ironrodpower]

I do like his show! @@patriciakimball8150

[@EsotericCelt]

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Jesus Christ.

[@fullofhope2222]

amen

[@grannyannie2948]

Amen

[@XtheEntX]

Encore! What an enthralling masterpiece of intellectual artistry!

[@TrillShvt]

Encore? 😂😂😂😂😂 cmon now

[@XtheEntX]

@@TrillShvt Ya it means I want to see another one

[@danielmandigo636]

One person can mess thinks up, a committee can make a real mess but it takes a government using other peoples money to create a disaster

[@grannyannie2948]

And now governments are beholden to globalists

[@slidingdownthemountain]

Niall Ferguson -- a true thinker with wisdom and understanding. And he also has a beautiful way of expressing himself.

[@johnricercato740]

The Scottish accent helps!

[@mariannefischer3613]

His "beautiful way of expressing himself" makes it easier to slip in some awful ideas.

[@johnricercato740]

@@mariannefischer3613 Do tell us what they are, Marianne…..

[@stevendavis8636]

Thank you for non university conversation . It's great to hear two university professors discussing real problems. This type of conversation is no longer possible in our Woke institutions.

[@imperfectstillworthit]

11:14 If the Kingdom of God - as described in the Bible sounds dull to you, you haven't experienced gods presence, power and love in your life yet. There is nothingt comparable to it, and the only possible respons is to cry out "Holy holy holy" as the saints do... I truly wish such a life changing encounter to every one 🙌🏼🔥

[@jeromedenis100]

Great interview. Niall and Jordan seem equally assertive which made for a well balanced conversation.

[@pauldowell1228]

“I am a lapsed atheist.” I didn’t see that coming! What a terrific conversation. It was like watching two heavyweight boxers. Then they started doing a beautiful waltz together. Well done guys.

[@linda_louise]

This is pure GOLD! 🤩🙏

[@stind1299]

A really fascinating conversation between a pragmatic Historian and a Psychologist steeped in Myth and religious ideas. Both approach from different perspectives but the concordence of ideas is enlightening. So much of the current landscape made sense after this exchange. The heart of the matter is nobility. To be exalted in character. Something sadly missing in public life.

[@joyspellmann4312]

What a beautiful revelation at the end. Very relieved to know the Dr. is my brother in Christ. I enjoyed this insightful chat. I love listening and learning from knowledgeable and calm conversation. Thank you.

[@harrypidd4755]

Ferguson's point about the climate alarmists' asceticism qua absolution is spot on. Unfortunately, I think some alarmists have ventured beyond just asceticism. Policy to deny the developing world the same energy we enjoy in the developed world strikes me as a form of sacrifice. As if reducing emissions, or growth thereof, will propitiate 'Mother Nature' who will then save us from the supposed impending climate apocalypse.

[@analytic_daily_meal]

Today, I again respect and honor Dr.Peterson and his guest. The various ideas and speakings are really helpful to draw out what is happened around the world and atlas of modern academic trends. Thank you for presenting videos of this kind!

[@isaaccardenas6741]

Dr. Ferguson should also have his own podcast! I am glad that he participates in a lot of conversations that are made public on KZbin, but I bet the DailyWire could help make that a reality without him having to worry about any technical aspect. They should definitely pitch him a business idea to have his insights more readily available to everyone that is interested. I'd love to see Dr. Ferguson achieving even more!

[@nancylindman9380]

I fully agree. I tire of hearing Peterson expound his views of the Bible and would've appreciated far more from Ferguson.

[@Koking2367]

Brain food. I absolutely love discord like this! And fact that the Bible is referenced multiple times, in positive light, is awesome. Thank you God.

[@joedanker3267]

Professor Ferguson is always interesting. It’s great to see he is still as sharp as ever.

[@keithross4962]

I’ve been listening to Jorden Peterson for several years now. This is the first time I’ve seen him really caught off guard at the end of the interview. Not going to give the ending away. Great interview as always

[@darnchicken]

John Carpenter's The Thing (1982), where the characters, while staying true to their personalities and professions, express what I believe to be some of the most realistic reactions to an imminent apocalypse that humans can have, its excellent writing if you ignore the expertly done body horror scenes that may not be appropriate for everyone.

[@dorothymilne1258]

At last! We learn so much from these discourses, and are grateful. 😊

[@legoforestmen3234]

I started watching here and then finished it on the daily wire, and I found his conclusion at the end, that Christianity has historically been the greatest bulwark against communism, Marxism, fascism, and totalitarianism, to be extremely profound. Psalm 92: 5-6 "O Lord, how great are Your works! Your thoughts are very deep. A senseless man does not know, Nor does a fool understand this." The more one understands and studies history and the Bible, the more one sees that the only hope for humanity is the Lord Jesus Christ. It's encouraging to see these two men look at history more honestly than many, and to see honestly the truth of God that becomes clear with the study of history. I hope in the future that they both become saved and born again Christians. ❤️✝️

[@stefansoder6903]

An adult conversation. So rare these days. Thank you!

[@johnmatchett3548]

What a great piece of work. Thanks to the team. I think the line from Annie Lennox sums it up: "Dying is easy - it's living that scares me to death" - it should be on my T-shirt. Day to day, the impact of an asteroid, eruption of a super volcano etc, seems strangely cathartic to us all. It takes the edge off worrying about life's daily issues: paying your mortgage, electricity bill, issues with your relationships, the call from the garage to say your car needs a new Auto box as it's out-of-warranty, potential global domination by Ai and that small lump that doesn't seem to be going away... Apocalypses just appeal to us. We could put in the work and get our heads in a better space - but we are too busy, or too lazy. JM

[@m4ts1994]

I'm so thankfull that Jordan is doing what he is doing.

[@donwoods5186]

That is because you don't know what he is doing. Sorry to burst your bubble

[@bubepube7792]

Someone this smart, cannot possibly believe that all of this is from incompetence and not deliberate

[@alanbarrow7447]

My thought exactly.

[@gsk182]

Nial is such a great thinker and communicator. It is always a pleasure to listen to him, especially when discussing important ideas, events, issues, etc. Love the the news that he and his associates are starting a new University. Hey Nial! Any chance you can put together a new government?

[@SeleckPlays]

This is one of those videos where I want to hit the like button over and over again.

[@marttivallila]

Brilliant discussion between brilliant men. Thank you for sharing this.

[@quotechew]

I love how intelligent individuals insult one another, receive it, and it never turns into a Jerry Springer episode. They just talk it out, agree, or agree to disagree and fly away.

[@saidaabukar4937]

Mind stimulating, please come forward Dr.Nial Ferguson to make difference. Thank you very much Dr. Nial Ferguson and Dr.Peterson for this great episode.

[@suzieq5614]

Yes…you are quite right about people thinking that the Kingdom of God is boring…that’s what the enemy of our souls wants us to believe. Nothing can be further than the truth.

[@sarahwong5592]

People need to read Randy Alcorn's book, Heaven. He is very thorough, and puts that idea to rest quite decisively.

[@suzieq5614]

@@sarahwong5592 I’ll have to check that out! Thank you

[@Batman-vr6jp]

Really hard to think God needs Humans.... We are just entertainment for God

[@louisetaylor2131]

There is nothing more interesting than finding the right path in life ….. it’s taken me nearly 70 years of stumbling and getting it wrong to know the correct road and then still getting it wrong. The journey and the small things we do build up to who we really are.

[@bradodilo7569]

The end point in Jordan observing the rather opposing viewpoints offered by Niall was remarkable, a testament to the fact that Jordan is a keen listener, probably one of the reasons that make him so apt in his conversations and discipline. I had never heard of something called LAPSED ATHEISM. Again, as usual, great conversation! Thank you JBP.

[@cedricgist7614]

I watched the shorter excerpt of this interview. I was so impressed by the respectful tone and the patience shown by both during long comments. Dr. Peterson as the host allowed Dr. Ferguson to respond in full - and Dr. Ferguson listened to Dr. Peterson's remarks - neither giving any indication of impatience. They both had something to say and it was a thought-provoking discussion.

[@celiacresswell6909]

I leave loved over the years watching these two intellectually competent and famous men wrestle with their pride, and often win. What a great conversation

[@mhallett364]

Stimulating conversation is putting it mildly if you ask me. I'm still trying to digest and I'm always a little surprised by exactly how much I understood. It's always possible that I have diluted myself into thinking that I understood more than I actually did...

[@miamaddux5483]

Deluded or diluted? Perhaps both? Agree with your comment. TY!

[@autumnleaves2766]

Thanks so much Dr Peterson and Dr Ferguson. A fascinating discussion which packed a real punch in a little over one hour. I loved the look of surprise on Dr Peterson's face when Dr Ferguson revealed that he is an ex-atheist. I went to a Monday night Christmas carol service today, which included a brilliant comedy interlude written by the vicar himself in which a Jeremy Kyle-style interviewer speaks to Mary and Joseph to find out whether all the rumours are true about Mary's pregnancy. The three parts were played by local RAF cadets. Brilliantly done, we just needed the phrase about " join us after the break when we reveal those DNA test results...". RIP Henry Kissinger who has recently died aged 100. There was a nasty headline in one of the leading US newspapers describing the late statesman as a "war criminal" which seemed harsh to me. Winston Churchill was a great statesman and it was tough on him to get voted out of 10 Downing Street in 1945. He was around 70 at the time and of course did return to the role of PM in 1951, the post-war Labour government was voted out after one term. Churchill suffered from depression at times, was known for his wonderful Sagittarian wit, was an accomplished painter, historian and writer and all this from a man whose teachers at Harrow did not expect him to do well in life. Churchill had that brilliant questioning mind that is so necessary today. There's a lovely quote about him wondering why on Earth they had to learn certain phrases in Latin lessons...."but when would one say "oh, table !" ? He attended various schools, including five years at Harrow, dropped out of Sandhurst military academy after a year and then went to Oxford University where he did not excel academically but was involved in all sorts of extra-curricular activities. He then joined the army of course. Britain could do with a leader of his level now but we are having to make do with Rishi Sunak with the very grim prospect of Sir Keir Starmer from 2024 onwards. We shall see ! Thanks again to Dr Peterson and Dr Ferguson for such a stimulating and thought-provoking interview.

[@tedhamilton2362]

For organizations such as WEF or UN to 'impose' rules on participant countries populations, one has to be concerned and oppose sweeping edicts. Knowing full well the 'rulers' will be exempt and the effects of the rules and edicts will be to remove freedom and NOT address the perceived crises.

[@georgehenry9072]

Sometimes we plant, sometimes we water, and occasionally reap the harvest.. fascinating interview

[@Hanaboy100]

Thank you for everything you do... you have saved us for sure..

[@freeradicals4christ]

Looking forward to a real discussion thanks Dr. P 🤙. 🤜🤛

[@wonderwoman2997]

Niall Ferguson wrote a book called WAR OF THE WORLD ( 12 years ago or so) want to know about in depth history of the world - read THAT BOOK... a brilliant piece

[@YO3A007]

Brilliant conversation.

[@KeepingTheIronThroneWarm]

Delightful episode. Thanks for posting!

[@franciskeys9810]

Thank you both for this excellent conversation.

[@mnt809]

I took away three major conclusions from that discussion that are very enlightening. I don't want to write a novel about what they are. But, the metaphorical imagery of the Tower of Babel was very instrumental and I think gets to the foundation of the problem that Ferguson is highlighting about the inefficacy of our modern world. Excellent discussion and guest.

[@coreyworthingtonii9230]

I remember coming across and flicking through the book *Empire: How Britain Made the Modern World* a few years ago before I was aware of Prof Ferguson’s increasingly mainstream fame. I remember thinking about the book as being well researched and set out and wondered who this author was to be so good explaining the history of Britain. Great to see him now with JBP.

[@heavenishere416]

It wasn't my experience that I was excited or thought of it as an adventure when I thought the world was ending in 2020-2021. Being female and being predisposed to negative feelings & also picking up on all these little hints that something really big was happening, I was really convinced. Believing these things almost ruined my life, I became obsessed with trying to figure out what was really going on and what I could do to protect my family. Anyways, I made it through to the other side of the new world programming. I feel more centered. I'm aware of conscious choice. I recognize finally that I am alive. It works. But I still wish I had all these conversations happening now, 2 years ago when I was really in the thick of things. It's nice to live in the future though, having taken a merciless fast track through what is slowly leaking into the mainstream now. I bet you guys were/are so excited for the crescendo to self awareness and self accountability of the masses. Anyways again, thank you for your service to humanity and the quality of our reality 💗 It was really fucking tough but I wouldn't take it back for the world.

[@OccamsRazor393]

The book, Higher Superstition, warned in the 90's the attack on science and Institutions. Excellent read.

[@ragdoll_x_furry]

That sounds interesting! Did it correctly predict that conservatives would be whinging about "wokeness" in schools and universities leading to a teacher exodus and worsening academic outcomes for children, along with a complete disinterest in facts and academic inquiry on the part of Republicans?

[@heatherross928]

Thanks for seeing the truth for over 2 decades. Those of us who heard back then what was coming are seeing the fruition of these woke progressive ideas that were being thwarted upon us.

[@winterphilosophy3900]

​@@theredbonekingis it peer review?

[@TheKitty1952]

A refreshing look at what could be a well-beaten subject. I'm interested in reading Dr. Ferguson's book. Thank you, Dr. Peterson, for the interview.

[@purplesquirrel8820]

The only lives that truly matter are those who respect the lives of others.

[@mathewparr4278]

Fantastic twist at the end! Subverted my expectations. Dr P masterfully extracted Dr F's confession.

[@CTJ41]

First comment. Excited for this podcast. Thank you Dr. Peterson for the good work your doing, an inspiration for all of us.

[@philipfreedom2773]

So many great in-depth interviews...so little time to watch all of them!

[@GrowWithGordon.JamesPanyan]

Great talk. Was struck with the idea that guilt for individuals is limited in the case of a total, worldwide cataclysm. This is because no single individual can be blamed for it. This is always my question when something goes wrong in my life-is it my fault? If not, it is much easier to move forward.

[@rypoelk997]

Robert J Lifton made the same point that Niall did when he debated Steven Pinker on whether things have gotten better or worse in human history. Worth watching

[@ashleygatewood]

Very interesting conversation. And what a surprising twist at the end. Wonderful.

[@craigrobinson99]

The ego is insulted that the world will just go,on without them

[@noideer4865]

A stunning conversation, across a breathtaking range of topics. Truly iron sharpening iron. There is so much to think about, I'll be digesting this one for a long time. Thank you both so much.

[@peggyoban4069]

I “discovered” Prof Furgeson while in grad school. Empire was a revelation and influence. Waiting to hear that his view of the powerful influence of Christ on culture through history is because Christ was actually who He said He was and is.

[@TheShavkatOmonov]

I casually wonder how the talks of such genius persons are still available for free )

[@psibernight2177]

I wasn't sure what to expect from this conversation considering the thumbnail but I'm very glad I watched it all.

[@Xpistophoros]

The misunderstanding of catholic/Christian beliefs is wild to me. I didn’t know anything about it and then I went to the source and lo- and behold, it’s so much more than anyone has ever led me to believe. Praise and alms be to the Lord Jesus for his gifts to us❤

[@iro4201]

Thank you for this conversation.

[@JesusChrist_the_one]

What an excellent conversation. I vary much enjoyed this podcast.

[@decembrie4889]

I love it! Such a best conversation. Respect! Every time i'm in here i feel like i'm learning or i have to think and i want to think. Thk You

[@aidantreays6497]

Wow! You guys! Stellar conversation; so stimulating!

[@terrytaylor6359]

Two courageous men. Thank you.

[@patriciaryan7066]

Thank you. Gosh, I need time to process that - so many lights have switched on in my brain! What a great privilege to have instant free access to such brilliant minds.

[@forevercori]

“Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

[@jzwanasa]

Such a great interview. I knew it would be. I'd love for them to talk about Niall's channel 4 series 'The ascent of money' which is, without doubt, one of the best documentary series I have ever watched

[@hubrisnaut]

I disagree with Neil on a few things but I respect him. This going to be good.

[@KelliJGreen]

You mean, "WHEN your state is corrupt...", Peterson. ❤

[@stephenmardon6781]

Great that two such important thinkers and great communicators from different disciplines share their perspectives and analysis on a deep subject. Why don't we see such quality discussion in the MSM?

[@kellengubbins8583]

Wow. That ending gave me chills

[@NicholasMGlasson]

Thanks for such a stimulating discussion! On 2nd play through, so much there! 🙏