The Psychology Behind "Nice Guys Finish Last" | Keith Campbell | EP 480

[@JordanBPeterson]

Keith Campbell’s course an “Intro to Psychology” and his upcoming course on Narcissim, as well as my courses, are available at petersonacademy.com

[@ACloudWithoutAir]

My bad. I'll just openly be an asshole now. Like Alice Cooper's, No more Mr. Nice Guy.

[@scotthopkins3169]

Thank you Dr. Peterson and Dr. Campbell for providing a much needed discussion on an issue that is rampant in today's society.

[@eatonasher3398]

Hey Dr Peterson, I recommend you reach out to Dr Saklofske from Western - he was one of my favourite professors on intelligence and test construction, and now that he's retired he would be GREAT for Peterson academy. If you want, I could introduce you to him?

[@Disjsbhc]

⁠@@ACloudWithoutAir Welcome brother, we have saved you a seat ❤

[@sierrapenner4805]

Nice means stupid, ignorant. Look it up, 300 years ago the word was necious meaning moron. Yes, idiots do finish last.

[@abishaicampbell2187]

A “nice guy” is someone who is afraid of conflict. He is afraid that conflict will lead to judgment and judgment will put his fragile ego at risk of being hurt. He is unwilling to accept that he might not be as good of a person as he thinks he is because his sense of self worth is derived from appearing to be a “good person” to others. He values appearing good more than being honest. A nice guy is desperate for validation and will do almost anything to get it. Without real principles, he changes his opinions, values, and convictions depending on the other person. He puts far too much weight on people’s opinion of him because he doesn’t have a good opinion of himself. His low self worth can be traced back to a lack of discipline and character in his personal life. His lack of integrity leads to distrust in himself and a man who cannot trust himself to do the right thing will always look to others for validation. He hides himself and presents a false face to the world because he hates himself and fears the world will hate him too. And maybe it will. But rather than working on his flaws and shortcomings he avoids them to protect his ego and convinces himself that the world needs to change, not him. And that if everyone wasn’t so terrible, they’d recognize and appreciate him for the amazing person he believes he is. These are just some of the things I saw in myself when I was at my lowest point.

[@diamondsrubies1964]

This comment needs way more likes, you have amazing self reflection

[@ohsweetmystery]

I know someone who is exactly this. Thank you for the insight.

[@ObXession]

Very well put together, thanks 🌀

[@Unkindled13]

Clawing my way out of this death spiral little by little. Your openness is welcome

[@ashutoshkumar-is7dj]

why does this sound like me

[@TrollMan6977]

Im 23, i live alone, constantly stressed, my room is filthy, im in misery and my life is in shambles. Ive been isolating myself for 2 years and dont leave my house for weeks at a time. When i hear people like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Huberman speak it gives me hope that maybe one day i will understand myself enough to be able to live a life thats worth living. Keep doing what your doing Mr. Peterson, I cant thank you enough. Thank you everyone for your advice, it really helps more than you think.

[@hollismallory2757]

I hope you can get out of that pattern. Nobody is perfect though, man

[@ichmich9324]

In all honesty as long as you don't do something, it won't get better. But yeah the question of what to do and better what is the right thing to do is at curtain points not an easy question. So start cleaning your room? If you don't know how, then don't be afraid to ask

[@Lapointesun]

Start working out and cut out processed food and you will start going out

[@n0odles86]

Start by cleaning your surroundings. Messy house, messy mind.

[@elitecoaching4927]

Self-awareness and honesty is strong in you little one. Your healing journey has already begun❤

[@bluemm2852]

I grew up with a father who was very weak and selfish. He came and went a few times in my life and he taught me very little. This made me a nice guy and a very weak character which has made life tougher than it needed to be. Thankfully God gave me a wonderful wife (when I was 38) and every year has been better since. Now in my 50's with two sons, trying my best to turn them into men.

[@jonathanleach4251]

It's the same thing with my father. I'm 27 and haven't even had a girlfriend so I hope I can get out of it before I'm too old to have kids.

[@booknoahgrove]

@@jonathanleach4251you’ll be fine bro, do the simple things, do the right things, hold yourself accountable and push yourself, and getting a girlfriend will be the least of your worries!

[@haraldthi]

​@@jonathanleach4251I have been in a similar bind and my best advice for not being "at the top of the ladder" is that honesty is better than social status. There are people who can be a bit of work and therefore can't pick at the top of society either, but as long as they're good honest people willing to work with themselves that's the most important part. This is where the Christian concept of grace can work wonders, but where "liars and players" should be avoided no matter their social status.

[@alexcameron2352]

But you had a father. What you said is personal. Not the statistic

[@niojackson938]

Brought up with two sisters by mom. No mentors, cousins, brothers, uncles, fathers,.not even a gang to learn anything from ...I understand all my pains I've gone through and the ones I still struggle with .but since I've grown to incorporate not giving a fuck about what others do, say, and feel, the sky is beginning to open drip by drop . They all pissed on me, especially women. But what I've built so far .ID TRADE THAT PAIN FOR NOTHING. I'm becoming an intellectual savage and I love it🎉🎉🎉

[@camcma1733]

"Is he nice or is he just weak?" 😮 Wish I had heard this conversation when I started dating

[@101Bettis]

I'd like to offer some constructive criticism of the manner in which you conduct your interviews. As a layman, with no experience in media, but just as a fan and enjoyer of interviews. Yours, in particular. I'm going to be rather blunt, but I mean no offense. Like I said JP, I'm fan of your work, fan of your approach- but for god's sake, let the man speak! I really wanted to hear what he had to say, but out of the hour and 45 interview, he probably only spoke for like 10 total minutes. It was mostly just you posing questions and pontificating, and him agreeing, with barely any back and forth at all. I know you have a lot to say, but I feel like as time has gone on, less and less of the focus of these interviews have been on the individual sitting across, and more of what their presence represents. As if they're presence is only the impetus for the conversation, and what they have to say is secondary. Not all the time, but this video seems to me, to be one of the 'prime offenders' so to speak. As a viewer, I'd really like to see some more back and forth between you, and your guests. More of a focus on them, with their work, novel contributions to their field and opinions. Anyway, all the best. -A fan

[@randomeyes]

Could not agree more!

[@ysf-d9i]

JP has gone from interviewing people to lecturing his guests

[@sammieobrien3845]

Huge fan too but this video was extremely painful to get through- I really wanted to hear the guest speak and I felt that JP was talking wayyyyyy too much.

[@Humanaut.]

He won't read this.

[@101Bettis]

@@ysf-d9i Eh, I wouldn't call it lecturing his guests- To me it looks like he's educating us, as the viewers. It's the reason he takes the time he does to thoroughly explain his questions, and often gives context before that question even gets asked. He was a professor for umteen years after all, probably a hard habit to break. I think that approach makes for a pretty bad interview though, no matter the intention. I think he should discuss the framework of the conversation beforehand, and get comfortable with expediting his questions. Maybe start using an editor, or edit differently.

[@msicy2851]

Real nice guys who stand up for truth and value are a treasure. However, they are rare and they are typically shunned and isolated by society at large

[@ichmich9324]

But they already take a step into not being nice. Which the Term "nice guy" not necessarily mean. They are just blank nice to get or avoid something and not because it is the right thing to do in a particular situation

[@Tittelintuure04]

How are they rare exactly?

[@OthaMilligan]

@@Tittelintuure04how many men of Integrity do you know? I know a few.😢

[@Tittelintuure04]

@@OthaMilligan at least two of my friens

[@msicy2851]

@@ichmich9324 but then you are putting a meaning that you perceive causes their actions, rather than understanding that actions are more important than words. Some people are not good with words so they do nice things to show their intent

[@jonlannister345]

Narcissism is pretty extraordinary. I wasn't even surprised when my mother responded to my suicide attempt by worrying about how it would make her look that one of her kids tried suicide. (4 out of 6 of her kids attempted suicide, oddly enough.)

[@etc6615]

🙏🙏🙏

[@iamplay797]

😂that is funny

[@sarabavota]

My mum was not as evil as yours but I understand unfortunately what you mean

[@ManticMako]

I'm glad you didn't go through with it. I've tried several times and almost succeeded too. I don't have those thoughts anymore. I pray that you don't have to have those thoughts for a single moment of your life ever again.

[@mashadol5873]

Just stopped by to say it's wonderful you're still here and there's always a way forward ❤

[@RobynAboud]

I don’t have the words for how I feel about Jordan Peterson. Such a special human being. His kids are so lucky to have him as a father and his wife, to have him as a life partner. He’s made such a difference in my life, listening to him speak is such a comfort to me. His sharing and intelligence is a total blessing.

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

I have met him and he is just the most beautiful and precious person in the flesh. He has a sweetness of spirit that I think doesn’t always translate online but once you meet him, you instantly sense. Such a dear man.

[@moruera6125]

​@@AFringedGentianToEnnien"give em hell"

[@MichaelGillespie-MG]

In the 50's my Dad worked a modest job, Mom stayed at home and raised the kids, and they lived a nice middle class lifestyle including owning a home. Nowadays both I and my partner works and can barely afford to make ends meet. Soon the kids and family dog will need to work to keep this household going. It's the destruction of the American dream right before our eyes.

[@NorwoodGuernsey]

I'm 54 and my wife and I are VERY worried about our future, gas and food prices rising daily. We have had our savings dwindle with the cost of living into the stratosphere, and we are finding it impossible to replace them. We can get by, but can't seem to get ahead. My condolences to anyone retiring in this crisis, 30 years nonstop just for a crooked system to take all you worked for.

[@FegaroScheu]

I feel your pain mate, as a fellow retiree, I'd suggest you look into passive index fund investing and learn some more. For me, I had my share of ups and downs when I first started looking for a consistent passive income so I hired an expert advisor for aid, and following her advice, I poured $30k in value stocks and digital assets, Up to 200k so far and pretty sure I'm ready for whatever comes.

[@ConiRis964]

If you are not in the financial market space right now, you are making a huge mistake. I understand that it could be due to ignorance, but if you want to make your money work for you...prevent inflation

[@JOEY-HUFF]

I was a late bloomer, but Tracy Britt Cool Consulting, my financial advisor helped me bring it all together and got me into crypto. Now retired for 6 years at 72, my managed portfolio with Tracy generates about 9k a month on average more than my RMD on my retirement accounts. Not real big, but together with SS we're able to live reasonably with 160k a year. While being mortgage free.

[@JOEY-HUFF]

She is really a good investment advisor. Was privileged to attend some of her seminars.that's how I started my own crypto investment

[@joelogan1452]

For anyone who knows me and knows what I have endured, I just want to acknowledge my own convictions on this subject, and I am grateful to hear it reinforced by educated professionals. Thank you! I will use this to help me let go of the past and learn from it, so that it will never happen again.

[@joshparker6180]

There's a difference between being "nice" and being "good". A lot of people think they are synonymous. They are not. A lot of sociopaths and evil people are "nice".

[@boy291-z8c]

yeah, I thought the same

[@petersinclair3997]

👍😊🇦🇺

[@justanothergrunt9053]

I can definitely flip the script… there is no good or bad but there is the ability to put your ego aside and help strangers and loved ones in their struggles. Suffering is the best teacher from my experience and love is the best reward. You can’t be afraid to bite back in the end though.

[@AnyaAnnika67]

Psychologically speaking, from an empirical perspective there is no evidence to suggest that suffering is in any way beneficial to our development in fact quite the antithesis. I was cyberstalked by a Machiavellian narcissist for 2 years which nearly ended in my suicide but did end in me being hospitalised & nearly loosing my 3 year old son & fiancé. What did that teach me? Absolutely nothing. Was it character building? Nope. Not that we don't have to go through trials & tribulations, we all do, but suffering, no.

[@stephaniesimmons708]

Listening to this, JP has said a few things that were almost verbatim what my husband and I have been saying about a narcissistic family member. It's incredibly validating to know I'm not just being defensive with this person, but that I'm seeing the situation for what it is.

[@saltchuckwest]

The challenge is to have a good relationship with that person regardless of their shortcomings that you and your spouse can sustain.

[@n0odles86]

​@@saltchuckwestsometimes it's best not to sustain any relationship. I don't speak to my mother because she started her sht with my children when they were young. I was _not_ prepared for them to be damaged by her like I was.

[@NanaWilson-px9ij]

They are abusers. I'm not volunteering for that.

[@raeg7127]

@stephaniesimmons708 I feel you. My own mother is the 2nd type of narcissist. It's hard.

[@stephaniesimmons708]

@saltchuckwest it's usually fairly impossible to have a relationship with someone who abuses you. I don't recommend trying. All of my study on narcissists has said hope is the worst thing for you if you're in one of those relationships. Narcissists don't change.

[@Kinghassz]

If your a nice guy/codependent then I recommend looking into ‘narcissistic abuse and codependency’. This changed my life, for the better.

[@JerryMetal]

I think 'Nice guys' is a confusing term. I think 'Men who pander to your every want and need' is a more accurate description. Simps!

[@Locke350]

“Nice guy” is just a misnomer for highly agreeable men.

[@nikolas_mancebo]

This is exactly why this is a great title. It generates engagement through a classic phrase that is held by many as the reason as for the world being awful and injust, and then through the talk it engages you into thinking why it's exactly the case. This is, I think, one of the reasons why Jordan is so successful. He engages people with statements that change people's lives, but at the same time work as tools to attack him by bad faith people. Yet, he is still courageous. Thanks for your comment! I think it will help people ease into the video.

[@jcolby298]

I believe "Simp" is the term used today

[@juankusoff]

@scann7306Calm down, Ma’am.

[@flaviaboa9822]

I don't call highly agreeable men nice. I call them simp. I met very nice men that turned to be manipulative. Incredibly seductive, saying all the right words, always nice and gentle.

[@MattMcMatt]

Congrats on the success of Peterson Academy. It's so encouraging to have a platform driven by curiosity and passion, where experts can talk about what they love and people can learn what they want

[@KwasaGenesis]

Let me clean my room as I listen to this

[@flaviaboa9822]

😂

[@mztwixed]

😂😂 right?

[@rodehs688]

Same. Car and porch clean. On to the rest of the house.

[@V1LL1N]

Cleaned the whole house! ...closets too.

[@mitch6962]

​@@V1LL1Nwhat a nice guy

[@dominiquecharriere1285]

After having been a bad guy for years (except at work), I became a nice guy (once I got 50+ and there was less pressure on my wife and I). It's so much better to be a nice guy than a bad one!

[@alenaadamkova7617]

Its exhausting for the body...if you have the cortisol high, produced by kidney I guess, .....probably men and women medicate themselvbres from too much stress by drinking alcohol, smoking, gambling and other uneccessary stuff, because ofa ddictioon to negatove emotions...Negatove emotions are highly addictive to brain, because each bnegative thought and each negatove emotion, creates a chemical in brain and brain is addicted to the chemical.... which means after 1000 times reapeating the same toxiuc patterns the brain as an organ will expect from you as ahuman, to chase the triggers to get the dopamine rush from the negative emotions so its not just you doing these stuff but mostly your brain became addicted to it, the brain became the master of you....not the servant and brain is able to make the exuses subconsciously, you may not be aware of the subconscious thoughts of the brain the brain is like....thats ok, just have some ciggaretre, just have a little "argument" with cowork, it ok, because I did it 100 times... so the authomatoc nervous system makes approval for everything, and creates a personality traits...unless you do some therapy or meditation, metacognition etc. Because what you put in computer, the computer will proces as a program, even the program full of viruses. Scientists say the brain or Suconscious mind works the same way as a computer program, it works 95 percent a day, picking the values you learned in childhood. Subconscious mind was crteated in childhood at age 0 - 7. But adults can reprogram subconscious nmind. Which mean even if you have a bad patterns you learned in childhood, it doesnt neccessarily mean you are a bad person, it just means you got bad examples. because child isnt able to tell what is bad or good at age when the subconscious mind is created. Butra fter observing the ego traits youa re able to not operate from ego, but your values. And reading books and learninga bout history figures actually help people to find their values, based on the history where people had their traditions. Your conmscous thinking is much more empathic, and focused, than the subconscious programs, that people leraned mostly in childhood by observinga dults or movies, ...instead of going to nature, and be effortlessly happy..Nature increases the mood for 6 hours..and increases immunity of the body by 30-40 percent.

[@__-fi6xg]

you can not pick and choose, i grew up poor, i had to be determined and strong from a rather young age. And as you can probably imagine, i am not a party animal... And i have a hard time connecting with others, i see other people as inferior and spoiled. I also noticed that my guard is always up as long as i am not alone in my own walls. Each of us plays their part, very rarely some people get the chance to change which is usually coupled with lots of suffering. The wish to change has to be extremely strong. I seem to be rare in that i have high emotional intelligence/ awareness as well. I did not choose to be as smart as i am, i nor my brother choose to be as dumb as he is. I feel sorry for my brother, no matter how much he hates me, i know i have the superior gift that none of us chose. Each of us is Uniquely equipped, yet we face the same challenges and we pretend that we reached our own goals, disregarding how we grew up, if we had parents and all the other stuff that influences our behavior, some of it until old age. The human condition is quite painful if you stop and think about it. Yet i am not sure if these are my real thoughts or if this is a fluctuation in emotion that i may not be able to control. When i work and live, i feel much better usually but right now i am suffering because of a certain virus that i was forced to take.

[@micahwise4212]

I once had my HR department tell me “Nice guys finish last” when I suggested we shouldn’t fire our best employee right before Christmas simply to raise our bottom line. Don’t be a push over but you should absolutely be kind in this world. When it’s time to show your teeth make sure they never forget it, otherwise, be kind.

[@jordanjacobs157]

Wouldn’t axing your best employee be detrimental down the road?

[@frazermcleanfitness3642]

That is what the bible this bible verse states. “The meek shall inherit the world”. Meek meaning (old translation) - those who know how to weld a sword but keep it sheathed

[@nalublackwater9729]

@@jordanjacobs157 Yes, but "best employee" sometimes is not the "employee HR or the boss likes best". And many times Management have no clue about what they are doing, sadly.

[@lecoureurdesbois86]

​@@jordanjacobs157Yes, as they explain in the video, it's like team work! If the best guy is with you, in the end, you all win and get benefits from it

[@theg-men8961]

Oh man! Recovering from neck surgery today. I’ll finally be able to finish the whole video in one sitting haha!….title reminded me of one time Jordan said it’s very hard to tell the difference between nice and weak. I told both of my sons that. I want them to be kind and loving but never weak man. It’s a hard thing to balance. Excited to learn something new from this. Always learn at least one new thing. Love you Jordan

[@connectautomotivediagnosti4950]

What happened to your neck?

[@theg-men8961]

@@connectautomotivediagnosti4950 had two discs that were basically gone so it was compressing nerves pretty bad and I had pain and numbness down my arms too. They put two new disc spacers in and a plate with some bolts lol. Pretty crazy but I feel pretty good now

[@kcjean827]

Prayers for quick restoration ❤️‍🩹🙏

[@theg-men8961]

@@kcjean827 thank you!!!!! God is good man. This surgery was super easy to recover from and from others I know who had this done, my recovery has been so easy compared to them. Lots of prayers for sure lol. Thank you

[@theg-men8961]

@@connectautomotivediagnosti4950 man, must have missed this lol. Had almost no disc left in my C5-7 so got those replaced and have a plate with screws. Bionic man baby! Haha doing well now though

[@donewithprecision785]

“Nice guys finish last” doesn’t mean “good guys finish last”. I love these talks 🙏🙏🙏

[@vincentdaniels7818]

Cope.

[@donewithprecision785]

@@vincentdaniels7818 “bad guys” get killed where I’m from

[@solimine1007]

Well there's a difference between a nice guy and good man

[@donewithprecision785]

I had a reply for vince, but I think it got deleted a while ago. Probably best it was. Replied to dumb shit with dumb shit.

[@greadion4]

I have come across many very competent narcissists in positions of power in the corporate healthcare world. In this world, we profit off the suffering of vulnerable people. My mind is that only sociopaths and people who are blind to our work are able to climb to the top. I disagree with the claim that psychopathy and narcissism are maladaptive strategies for individuals. It entirely depends on the environment. Their are many, many environments where dark quadrad individuals succeed disproportionately to the rest of the population. That being said, I am so happy to hear the success of Peterson Academy.

[@HoradrimBR]

"Nice" is a word that is not being used as it was 30 years ago, like "hate"...

[@flaviaboa9822]

So true. It's confusing

[@johnsherfey3675]

Honestly I don't know what it means besides "good."

[@esthermarcen7587]

Some of my single girl friends they use it when they mean ugly.​@@johnsherfey3675

[@TacTicMint]

It means has manners. For some reason the establishment has put out propaganda to shame people with manners and weak minded people are eating it up. I think it's to undermine society. It's like the normalization of divorce that showed up after the 60's.

[@BlackieNuff]

Forget 30 years ago. Look up the etymology of the word "nice". That will shed a little light on some things, like why being called "nice" offends some people (and surprisingly, or not-so-surprisingly, for good reason), and even provide some added perspective for why "nice guys" get rejected and steamrolled.

[@f.a.5865]

Thank you for inviting us to watch the conversation, Professor. I truly enjoyed it and have learned so much over the years with you. I wouldn’t be the same person today-certainly not as handsome-had I not attended your lectures. Thank you again, deeply. Take care, y'all!

[@dylanpringle4314]

My favorite person on the internet Peterson everything he talked about so truthful it saves my life throughout my father’s passing

[@diegonavas7255]

I'm 78 percentile in my neuroticism personality trait and 10 on extroversion. From previous interviews on narcissism, I thought that it was pretty safe. But I always said that I struggle with narcissism, this interview made a lot of sense and opened my eyes to new views. I also enrolled in Dr. Campbell's course, I've been enjoying the course so much and I couldn't have asked for a better performance, thank you all for the amazing and hard work. I've worked in the filming wedding industry and I've done my share of editing, and the quality is amazing.

[@sfertonoc]

I would not wholly embrace these technical "qualifiers" or risk 100% schizophrenia. There is much more to a man than these summaries merely useful for (in)Human Resources.

[@ThelmaBeckerlp]

psychprofile AI fixes this. "Nice guys finish last explained."

[@Ess_Cee]

as a woman who has been labeled "mean" by a “nice guy" -it was such relief to hear, "idk if you're nice so much as you're kind of a loser." bc it means maybe i’m not mean and i’m not trippin for trippin nice guys put their nice on a pedestal and resent women who desire more than just nice out of a partner these types either don't understand or choose not to understand that nice is a good quality, but on its own, it's just not enough to create lasting respect. w/ out competence and ambition it's incredibly difficult to see them as serious long term partners

[@Septqmber]

From a male's perspective I also think societal expectations have advanced alot, and some men seem to refuse to adapt. Perhaps being nice to women in the 50s was enough, but today kindness is common courtesy and not at all impressive. It'd rather be odd if someone wasn't kind so to speak.

[@aegisreflector2725]

Those types are angry because they've been lied too about the nature of male attraction. It's not enough to be kind as a man, you must also be attractive. In some cases, attraction is the only things that matters. Being tall Being good looking Having money Having status The sooner men realize that women's sexual attraction to them is not based on their kindness, but on the attributes listed above, the better.

[@Ess_Cee]

@@aegisreflector2725 yeah that’s true, i suppose many of them have been misled about the nature of attraction. it’s unfortunate. but personally I would be forgo the tall aspect or the having money and status bit, if i saw he was smart, ambitious -there’s nothing more attractive than a purpose driven man

[@nalublackwater9729]

@@aegisreflector2725 No, they have been lied about being told that just acting nice towards the pretty girls would be enough. Being tall, good looking, having money and status will only bring the attention of gold diggers and women who will threat the man as a trophy until they get bored of him. You need to have personal value, have personal limits and self-respect, have a moral compass, being reliable, being a good person with the waiters, the cleaner, the old lady or gentleman down the road, not only the pretty lady you wanna sleep with. That kind of "niceness" always comes out as performative and fake and will drive away any woman worth living with.

[@aegisreflector2725]

@@nalublackwater9729 "No, they have been lied about being told that just acting nice towards the pretty girls would be enough" This is the point I've already made. "It's not enough to be kind as a man, you must also be attractive." "The sooner men realize that women's sexual attraction to them is not based on their kindness, but on the attributes listed above, the better." Things like personal value and self-respect are fine, but they only matter within a romantic context if a man (or woman) is physically attractive in the eyes of the other. Romantic love isn't about love, it entails the business of reproduction, and in order to find a partner, you need to have material assets to trade with. In numerous studies, physical attraction ranks highest for not only men, but for women, too. Society simply lies about the inclination. Logically, rejection wouldn't exist at all if parties were not seeking something specific from the other. I have been that nice guy whose faced rejection, and it annoying to see people profess that such men can't express frustration with repeated rejection, especially when society has told than that the path to romantic success lies through kindness and chivalry. It doesn't. I'm not saying a man shouldn't be kind, I'm saying we have to stop pretending that women (generally speaking) don't value a man's looks and his socioeconomic status. These traits matter not just for gold-diggers and women interested in boy-toy trophies; they matter for the average woman.

[@sbumavuso3141]

This episode is a clear indication of how good vocabulary and command of language is an important quality to have when in conversation. Just by the way he speaks, one would say that Jordan is more educated or more knowledgeable than the other fellow, yet that other fellow is also an expert in the field

[@Dankfz1]

Man every time I watch a video from JP I end up taking twice the time to watch because I have to keep making notes. Thank you for sharing this conversation. I have a young daughter, and having this kind of insight has helped me so much so far. Thank you!

[@martinmartin9084]

It is nothing wrong w being nice. Acting nice for a specific outcome is manipulation. If you are nice to ppl from a genuine place in your heart, it isnt manipulation at all, it is kindness.

[@Humanaut.]

Yeah, this video addressed the distinction between the two, i don't know if you actually watched the whole thing. One thing I did observe about myself is that I became less "nice" (on the surface) once I became more confident and thus no longer needed anything from others. I still try to orient my actions to be of benefit and not cause harm to others but I no longer put on being nice on the outside. Sometimes kindness (so "genuine niceness") actually means making yourself less liked or saying things other people don't want to hear because they are the truth.

[@MillenniumEarl014]

Idk. It's pretty helpful acting nice. That's how I got promoted lol. Fake it till you make it.

[@CrossBearerTheCub]

Nice guys finish last because they put everyone else first. Selflessness rarely gets rewarded.

[@ichmich9324]

Don't confuse being selfless with having a personality that is somehow split in avoiding something, but still wanting it and don't know how. What is called a "nice guy" is most of the time not a person who is nice but he plays nice. Especially in everything related to woman they can be spotted really easily, when they try to do everything to please one and when rejected they complain or when they actually have a woman that makes interest clear they don't know how to react and complain about this. A lot cope with their lack of what they want and try to play stoic, but this always slips at curtain moments

[@__-fi6xg]

never

[@ruaraidhmorrison5879]

I don't think you've listened at all. Or understand what is being said about being a "nice guy"

[@williammentink]

Nice guys are liars and no one trusts them, because most people believe they are faking it to manipulate others.

[@jatelitherius9842]

Self styled ‘nice guys’ are not nice. They are covert a-holes & manipulators. They think they’re nice because of self delusion & make themselves out to be nice despite their manipulative tendencies. Its all a front, if a woman made the mistake of dating one, all of his toxic behaviors would manifest quickly. I know because i was that guy in my teen years

[@ConnorLepp]

I am a recovering nice guy. It still brings me shame to consider myself as this but the more it's talked about the less I can deny it in myself. Despite all the work I've done I can't still feel myself shrink and adapt into pleasing people at times as a strategy. It can be very hard to give up because of the sense of groundlessness you are left with and need to sit with as you develop the substance to stay in integrity in a way that is sincere, safe, and even receptive to the intersocial space. I appreciate these discussions because they help me where I'm at in taking the next step. Conditions of self are created via intersocial upbringing but they are dismantled and reborn via faith, volition, and support.

[@Alaska_Mac]

Don't be ashamed. If it's true, it's true. What matters is how much work you're willing to put in to change things, even if you fall off the wagon from time to time.

[@v025-b1r]

Watching this feels heartwarming, I feel like they both are part of my family now, I love JBP and I didn't know much about KC but I took his course in PA and he's amazing. I feel like I learn and expand my universe everyday with these guys. Exemplar men 💕

[@kennyx8482]

so chuffed at peterson academy taking off. also so intrigued and curious about it...and so damn happy for jordan about it too!

[@SmithsMuseum]

Everyone is doing what they think is best, those opinions having been formed over their life and how they were socialized. Nice guys aren't always mad at the women for not picking them, they're often mad at themselves, or the people who taught them that weakness is a virtue in modern society. I know I've felt that way more than once, though it's certainly not that simple.

[@JordanBPeterson]

Not everyone is doing what they think is best.

[@SmithsMuseum]

@@JordanBPeterson Would a rephrase to "What they've convinced themselves is best" work better? Also to clarify by best I meant their perspective not common sense.

[@clariceeilken5467]

sometimes people knowingly commit evil

[@genesises]

@@SmithsMuseum i think the point is that in actual real life most people don't "aim up" as much as they could, and will many many times settle for what is offered in fear of missing out. championing yourself is not so easy in practice - and as clarice said, sometimes people commit evil because they reason it's "worth it".

[@SmithsMuseum]

@@genesises They're aiming at something, and by the fact that they are aiming at it, and not aiming at everything else, means they think it's the best thing to aim at.

[@dranreb1118]

Keith Campbell and Jean Twenge wrote a really good textbook on Personality Psychology. So glad both have now done pods with JP!

[@skillfulpeople]

I just finished watching the Foundations of the West chapter II, after dinner in front of the Acropolis. My goodness, what a great conversation and "contrapunteo" between a young mind and an experienced university professor and philosopher like Dr. Peterson. My dad, Humberto Murillo, wrote a novel titled "El Festin del Retorno" 10 years ago, which tried to emulate the intrincacies of a conversation between a young man and an adult who happened to travel the same path to Ithaca. His writing was poetic, with similar questions, such as what is divine, how to find it, what inspires the adventure, what is reason, truth, and love. However good my dad was as a poet, I wasn't as satisfied as I am now understanding where we come from as a culture. Thank you very much, I now see it will be easier to navigate the future with this knowledge at hand, and I hope others can see it. We, everyone but mainly the world leaders, must always seek to find that third way that is neither mine or your way but a compromise where differing minds can accept as their own. Only so we'll be able to find time to be eternal.

[@BlackieNuff]

I'm really pleased to hear Peterson Acadamy is taking off so well. It sounds like it has hit the ground running and there's no slowing down. There may be hope for true education after all.

[@SafeADude]

According to Peterson's personality inventory, I might be a psychopath. (92 on Extrovert, 37 on agreeableness, 8 on conscientiousness, 87 on industriousness but 0 on orderliness.) This explains a lot of my life but listening to Peterson has socialized me to a great degree. I've been sober now for 3 years, haven't gotten into any fights, been celibate for 4 years as I search for a wife. Anybody who wants to change can and introducing them to Dr. Peterson is a great start. Thank you, Dr. Peterson!

[@aaronleigh8296]

Out of Manstein’s 4 types of officers, you must be the worst “industrious and stupid” type😭😭

[@SafeADude]

@@aaronleigh8296 lol must be why I chose something as useless and unproductive as poetry as a career path.

[@zeger7787]

The fact you are reflecting and working on yourself, and are able to admit you might have faults is a good sign man.

[@SafeADude]

@@zeger7787 Thank you! I got so lost in my teenage years and early 20's as many have. College was a very difficult time for me as I sold and did drugs at an unsustainable rate. Glad to have grown up slowly in the real world, still got lots more to work on.

[@karenmossbryan7932]

I wish Dr. Campbell talked WAY more than Dr. Peterson, who just cannot not talk out his thoughts. Listening is a virtue. Interviewing is an art.

[@petersinclair3997]

Yes, I thought the same. Why invite a discipline expert and try to second guess the answers? Dr. Campbell had a more settled manner and calmer demeanour than Dr. Peterson.

[@romano3771]

Stop generalizing "Nice Guys". The world is already full with people who have narcissistic personality disorder and people are obsessed with them trying to become like them. The media is preaching narcissism and egoism as "good" traits. How about trying to convince people that being "nice" to each other could turn this world into a better place instead. Keep uploading videos like this and you will contribute to the world becoming more rotten each day.

[@Adani8882]

Being Nice is not good... being kind and empathetic is. There's a huge difference. Being nice means I will lie and deceive just to void hard conversations... lying and deceiving in the long run cause more problems more hurt and more pain... we should seek to be kind. When we are kind we are honest and empathetic, we understand that the truth if told kindly might hurt but it's the best for everyone and in the long runs hurts less. Yet with kindness when we tell the truth we preserve our integrity and the integrity of everyone around us. Nice people are deceivers and liars for the most part they betray themselves and the people around them.

[@romano3771]

@@Adani8882 I have to admit that I didn’t think there was a difference between “nice” and “kind” maybe because English is not my first language. I thought they both meant the same. Thank you for the clarification. Based on that I will alter my initial comment and say: Please be kind to each other.

[@andrewdinfela1077]

​Same here​@@romano3771

[@GThomas-qq6mp]

​@@romano3771 Your first comment is fine. Nice can perfectly be used for politeness and courtesy. The internet sucks up all narcissus waters and we're looking at it constantly on other social media platforms. What Peterson refers to is the compassionate wimpish, lacking in character, boneless. "nice guys" is a negative caricature. It's the masculine version of the "pick-me-girl" who seeks validation, by portraying herself as different or "better"

[@Whitepilledprincess]

Tell us you didn't watch the video without telling us you didn't watch the video. Context, darling

[@NearsightedMama3]

Very insightful especially towards the end because social media says to focus on yourself in order to be "happy', but in reality it's building '' meaningful'' relationships with those around us. Being hospitable with others is something I never thought about because I was so focused on my anxiety.

[@tuomaskleemola6844]

We lose the spirit of companionship, if we stop trying in life. Individual gains back the spirit of a winner, when they continue to try their best again. I try despite my hardship, so I approach you in forgiveness. My head feels clearer when I don't carry grudge for the people that wrong me, instead I join in the effort to find new ways of bringing back the harmony of being.

[@cgorman2659]

There's a difference between being nice and being a doormat.

[@danhoebbel2250]

Well said!

[@petersinclair3997]

Being nice and highly competent is a good combination, provided one has enough assertive prowess not to be exploited.

[@HoneyMoney-p4l]

Being nice vs being GOOD

[@Croc-eb6cf]

Jordan, your conversations are an amazing resource for understanding. I have a wish in my heart that you already have Gabor Mate scheduled or planned for as a future guest. I think you would make a great pair for discussion on your respective fields of knowledge. Thank you for all your hard work 🦖

[@kandeenance2857]

The Gaming Community made note of this dark side of Social media activities should get credit of naming it. Please give them the credit for their insightful observation. Thank you

[@danielcronk8699]

Interesting conversational style: "Tell me what you think about this..." *lectures seemingly without end*

[@WrathfulAngel64-sx5if]

As someone who was the nice guy. Too afraid to do things that would upset people. I switched my personality around. I was always about integrity and justice, I didn't have the courage to stand up for myself. Now I have the courage to stand up for myself, what I struggle with is that when you stand up to certain people it gives them a target on where to strike. Standing up for yourself isn't always about physicality. It's about choosing your battles. When you deal with narcissists they want you to get pissed and react. It gives them ammo. So now my problem isn't being too nice it's being too harsh and too suspicious yet feeling like i'm not harsh and suspicious enough. Narc abuse can shatter your world if it's deep enough.

[@alexiscao8749]

I wish JP could let the interviewee describe their frame of thinking. We know his thoughts pretty well, relatively, but need fresh perspectives and would like JP to respond to in a difference reference system.

[@petersinclair3997]

There have been a few comments on JP pulling attention to himself over his expert guest.

[@Zendvious]

The more i learn about human relationships the least i regret my slow way onto becoming a monk

[@kirbfx]

Apathy is the lowest form of human development. Look up the Sedona Method, it provides the pyramid of human development with apathy at the very bottom. It's the place where so many men decieve themselves into dejecting from society with the false belief that they are at peace and happy but they are just being apathetic and pacified. This is where many men in the MGTOW (which has the hallmarks of a social engineering), are truly at.

[@a_sher1775]

Awe that seems sad, unless that’s what you want. This era makes no sense to me, life is about our connection to one another. This could be because I was raised by hippies though.

[@davidhumphries1146]

No comment on the actual content?

[@ascott4606]

The problem with backing away from society is that we become depressed, humans are social beings we go mad without it.

[@Sandy-of6gq]

Something a narcissist would say. Jk jk

[@StjepanPalinic-n9e]

I thought a nice guy is someone who treats others the way he wants to be treated and is ready to fight five stronger guys to defend someone who is being attacked. If you are truly a nice person you can't be nice to people who harm others

[@Sub0Kate]

I would call that a good man.

[@TimothyJesionowski]

I would call that kindness, and strength. Different things, though obviously related.

[@Hunter-2689]

Yeah its good to be nice and respectful but not to be 100% a "nice guy" because there are times you must be not nice. The struggle is most nice guys are too cowardly to do the right thing so they just tolerate some bad thing and nervously cooperate to avoid conflict.

[@raeg7127]

Agreed. There's a difference between being nice and being a doormat.

[@dacyphaa]

Yeah, that would be a "good man" , a "real one"

[@BenJohnston1993]

I’m 31, I live in a host home, I don’t have a car, I don’t have a job, I don’t have a degree, and I don’t have a life partner. I hope I fix all that in the next 5 years or so.

[@syriusblacc9746]

Jordan Peterson is probably the best therapist I ever had.

[@user-zk2mk1np2rzlambchopu]

Working on my bad behavior everyday😮its so hard im sarcastic ive realized 😢dont like alot of things ive discovered by listening to you ❤ thank you Sir

[@peterkingham]

Woody Harrelson gone way deep getting into character for this role

[@michaelkendall1263]

I thought the exact same thing😂😂

[@Adamski727]

Yeah, it’s something about his eyes that is very similar! Not all the time, but at sometimes in some angles it’s really there!

[@Alaska_Mac]

Right? Glad I'm not the only one 😂

[@paulthobe3489]

Nice guys are the men that haven't learned to embrace the darkness of life. Embracing the darkness and using it to create rather than destroy is the gift of gratitude.

[@mattayoubi9829]

Dr Campbell’s latest book on narcissism is stellar.

[@YotaDaryl]

I very much appreciate the comradery these two show each other without feeling threatened intellectually by the other. Great episode.

[@nikkimousiex1931]

we need WAAAYYY more attention brought to the problem of mass narcissism plaguing our society

[@Disjsbhc]

Yea just like we need way more attention brought up to the problem of alternative media narrative bias, foreign manipulation of those said media, and mkultra type algorithmic ephemeral content exposure. There’s something on the internet that’s creating problems for our enterprise.. activate the facts and logic slander machine! This video is designed to distract you with the current thing. Those who know will keep noticing, despite the noise.

[@lordbendtner9328]

By "narcissism" you mean actual NPD or some nebulous notion of self-centeredness?

[@SomeGuy-jx4qd]

Growing up I learned that love was this feeling of happiness that will never go away as long as you have your partner, you love her she loves you, you both have each others back and care for each others mental/personal struggles, someone you can trust and open up too and tell every and anything about yourself, where i could practically be my partner and my partner could practically be me, the feeling of responsibility alone that this girl chose you motives you to be a better protector and provider and spiritual leader, someone you can count on when the world is against you to me love was supposed to be like that, basically a safty net, something/someone to catch you even if the whole worlds against you , but apparently your pathner's apart of that world and not a part of you I think movies have heavily influenced what i believe to be the point of Love But lately I've been challenging this idea of what love is supposed to be for a man I've always wanted to be loved by someone, it would've ment alot to me but in today's world I think I have to love myself instead Hear me out I thought the point of love was that two people who like each other for the person they are got together and decide to be better for each other as i said above But that has never happened for me I've tried with girls of my age group and haven't succeeded in someone liking me, which makes sense I'm young and not a very good protector or provider either and from what I've observed online women are seeking out the best of men, best protector and provider that is, which is fine and totally understandable So then If someone is to like me I'm going to have to improve myself, and put lots of effort into being successful and the thing is I'm kinda afraid of what I might become if i do become successful because i won't be paying much attention to girls, I probably won't even have much of a feel for them and i might not focus on girls super seriously again like whoever i choose to be with wouldn't be my "everything" or my quote on quote "world" , i can essentially live without her I don't mean to come off rude or selfish but i feel like i'm missing something here If the point of love isn't two people getting together to improve each other or be better for each other then I don't see what else can maybe possibly get me to be this madly in love guy for my partner If i have to improve myself on my own, i have to handle all my mental/personal issues on my own and become successful to have a girlfriend /potential wife (i not saying they're wrong ,they have every right to want what they want, i get you don't wanna struggle, okay that's great, i don't wanna struggle either, and if i had a daughter I'd prefer her to be with a financially stable person) btw this isn't me asking "what do you bring to the table" but like if i have to basically get myself together in order to have a girlfriend /potential wife, when i do decide to get her like who is she supposed to be for me and too me, like who is she ment to be or what is she ment to do like I'm basically self sustained at that point it's like i won't really need a woman at that point, It's not like I'm gonna need someone to keep me company because i would've needed to adjusted to being alone in order to become better....Like is she just mainly for sexual purposes, like Is she mainly to keep me from sexual sins? Like sleeping around like....Is she supposed to be a house wife? Cause im pretty sure i won't have any chores I need her to get done, i would've been had to be doing my own laundry and dishes and cooking by then..... is she just to make and take care of children? The making part is all hers but it's coparenting when it comes to taking care of the kids..... like is she just extra hands around the house, i know women can make their own money but obviously whoever i end up with would likely be making less than me and i don't plan on being average successful, im afraid ill just become a near heartless person who'd just be side-eyeing my wife like i don't really love you or need you, especially when the bible say we need to love our wife like christ love the church and would die for the church Even now i feel like I've lost a light, even if a girl loves me now i probably won't be the perfect lost in love person i wanted to be But idk Maybe im stupid, maybe my thinking is incoherent idk i need clarity cause i cant think through this but idk i haven't drawn to a conclusion as yet because all of this is assuming becoming successful will make me more self sustained and i wouldn't need a relationship or anyone anymore and i might become more self-centered

[@Enter-a-name-7789]

No, you’re not stupid. Men and women do compliment each other, when both bring their best into a relationship. There has to be a willingness to commit. Respect each other, and also serve each other. Unfortunately, it’s harder these days to find people to commit. They are out there, but it takes time and effort on each other’s part. I pray you find someone good soon to serve you, and for you to serve them. That’s what I was looking for in a man. And now I have one. And he’s willing to better himself to serve me. And I’m bettering myself to serve him.

[@redjr242]

I don't think you're stupid. As someone who knows nothing, and also ruminates over these same questions, my humble opinion is that although the internet makes it seem like you need to meet impossibly high standards to find someone, that's not the case, at least not for the kind of love you're looking for. Most people meet online nowadays so I don't know a good alternative, but as long as you: look like you care about yourself, have a general aim towards success, and be kind to others, that's probably all you need. Hopefully this is enough to draw and find good women to you.

[@jasonjones4036]

Good post- shows you're thinking. Don't let your fear of success keep you from trying. While you get better, you'll also develop mentally/morally, if you choose to. In other words- you'll learn as you go. Yes, you do want to get where you don't need a partner. People who are "complete" in themselves, who don't need a partner, often make the best partner. The first reply probably said it better. What do they do? Women and men are valued for different things. In our culture, women are born w value, men have to make theirs. You don't have to have it all together- my god, neither will she. You do have to have potential. Women are great assessors of this, often times. Don't forget, like sex, it's the journey, not just the end result that's so good. It's a big, beautiful Iife out there. Your youth will fade before you realize how incredibly blessed you really are. As a side note- women like a lot of the same things men do- health, stability, wisdom, strength, courage- things that take a long time to develop. Sounds like you're figuring out a plan. God speed.

[@saltchuckwest]

Exercise will help a lot. Make a goal, plan it out, walk that plan out altering as needed: repeat for the rest of your life imperfectly but with increasing competence. Figure out what you can and can't control and focus on the can part. Look for peeps that want the best for you and cheer you on. Calm and competent is very appealing to women who are like that too.

[@AnyaAnnika67]

As a woman who has a very successful career (I earn as much as my fiancé) let me tell you that when you're at the top you don't just stagnant mentally, we're cognitively fluid beings & continue to evolve...new contexts present new challenges. I think the point is that both of you need to be committed to exploring them cognitive horizons & not remaining stagnant. Having a career/being successful & having a family aren't mutually exclusive. In fact it's mentally much more taxing having both. I think a good starting point would be exploring on a more granular level what you're looking for in a woman as opposed to being more generic & talking about notions of love; like are you attracted to intellectualism, aesthetics more than the cerebral, their cognitive predispositions, personality facets etc but always keep an open mind. In retrospect I was so focused on my career I didn't given relationships serious consideration until my late 20s & I'm glad I didn't. I had much more life experience to bring to a relationship & knew what I was looking for...he turned out to be my mentor when I wasn't looking for anything serious. You sound like a very reflective young man - just don't place too much precedence on hypotheticals that probably won't be.

[@calculatedrisk1]

The church taught me to be “Christ Like”. I’ve always taken that approach. Being purposefully evil just to make a Woman happy seems like going against my own morality. Anyone can slap their Woman around and engage in toxic behavior for excitement sake, but I’ll never die on that sword…

[@herminlionel1909]

Being Christ-Like is not the same as being weak. Women despise weak men, not confident, hardworking, self-sacrificial ones.

[@calculatedrisk1]

@@herminlionel1909 I never used the word “weak” in my statement. What I’m saying is I refuse to change my beliefs for some cooch. It’ll never be that serious…

[@Zendvious]

@@herminlionel1909 That man which you describe is the first one to get cheated

[@calculatedrisk1]

My response got deleted (used a dirty word I guess) What I’m saying is I’m not going to go against my beliefs in order to get a Woman. And that I never used the word “weak”, in response to the first response to my comment…

[@steveh.7664]

@@calculatedrisk1 there’s being evil which isn’t the same as being masculine. Women want men who have spine and can take charge and protect. It’s a turn on for many women. As a Christian man who understands your perspective to a point, the church isn’t always clear about defining Christ likeness in masculine terms.

[@gabrielomondi4630]

To hear that peterson academy has come to amazing fruition makes me smile...i have followed peterson and his family on this from its inception to now that its a real living breathing thing. Congratulations guys!!

[@TuanNguyen-mr2dy]

Thank you very much Jordan Peterson and Keith Campbell for this insightful video.

[@Lightningrodmcgee]

I love how experts sit here and stand on the shoulders of all the people who had to learn these things the hard way and then they expect people to just know better.

[@sd6213]

Always been the nice guy. Always regreted it.

[@king489]

i will tell you a story witch happen....one of my lets say friend few days ago. Few days ago we go out with some people one of the girl say about a specific guy in the group how nice guy the guy, etc...and at the end of the night the girl kiss and gows home with another guy...and the guy he is in mid 30....his ex left him because she loose a lot of respect...and because of the sindrom being nice...but this kind of guy is very dangerous because he does not have a strong foundation and because of this you cannot never trust this kind of guy....this kind of guys will betray when a women is around...all the time....

[@flaviaboa9822]

:( sorry to hear that Don't be nice then

[@CheerfullyCynical829]

Nice guys who are either boyishly handsome or ruggedly handsome and a bit athletic finish close to first. Women care about looks almost as much as men. They do matter, quite a lot. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise. The nice guys who finish last are either heavy or really scrawny, and probably nerdy AF.

[@Lori1Cor15]

We don't care much about looks, at least not a generation ago. You wanted a little nd man.

[@Lori1Cor15]

*You wanted a kind man

[@RonnyAndersson-q9b]

If the "nice guy" concept is the standard of human decency. Sign me up.

[@joce0993]

I have been a non dominant field foreman for a couple of years and have been very successfull with every other level of the hierarchy Being a strong nice guy works very well for me.

[@jaysonb.6669]

How tall are you?

[@joce0993]

@@jaysonb.6669 5'8" 160lbs... strong character 😉

[@danb239]

Don't try to be overly nice, treat people with respect and don't associate with people who don't treat you with respect. If you just try to make other people happy then you can end up with a bunch of selfish or narcissistic people in your life and no one looking out for your best interests. The nice guy attitude will get you nowhere in life, especially with women. I remember watching one Keith's videos years ago and I learned a lot, give this one a listen.

[@ohsweetmystery]

This comment is better than the entire podcast. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

I am so glad you had Dr. Campbell on the podcast, Dr. Peterson, I enjoyed his conversation with Mikhaila so keenly and I knew you two would enjoy one another’s conversation very much, too. Speaking of enjoyable conversation, dearest Dr. Peterson, I am finally watching through your Maps of Meaning lectures from the Harvard years. I’m listening to them as I’m editing, to keep the creative part of my brain busy and happy while I’m doing picky granular edits. And I did not think I would get anything out of them because I’ve heard the 2017 lecture series twice through but I AM. You look so different and so YOUNG but your voice is just the same and what you are speaking of, thirty years ago, is just the same as what you are speaking of now. You’re just the same old sixpence. I have to hold off on Peterson Academy this year but I’m consoling myself with those lectures. I loved the picture of you by Georgian Bay. I know you’re going through so much right now, with stress and grief, and any opportunity for refreshment of spirit is so needed. And I love it for you. With Ruth Anne’s love

[@joshsims7286]

Thanks Jordan!

[@DonaldDowns-qd7di]

Not every nice guy is like that at all. I'm a nice guy, understanding, disciplined, opened mind to a lot of situations. And not afraid to stand my ground when I'm in the right, and when I'm wrong, I'll own up and take responsibility, learn from it and move on.

[@DonaldDowns-qd7di]

So far as a nice guy, I never finished last.

[@Septqmber]

​@DonaldDowns-qd7di I think at this point nice guy is an umbrella term like incel, evolved to cover a certain character. I'd say you're a nice person.

[@senyaw53]

You’re a good guy not a “nice guy”

[@justtekina6709]

i dont think it ever that serius for me to stand up for something i dont care much for barking or pointless fights, i always ask what people are so afraid of when they would bully and talk shit about me but never actually fight me

[@silviyaivanova2154]

Dear Dr. Peterson, I very much enjoy listing to the conversations presented on your channel. There is always either something new to learn or a different angle to consider. Still, I often find myself wishing you left more space to your guests in developing their thoughts in your unsightly discussions. Best regards, Sylvia

[@cammaes]

THERE NEEDS TO BE A PART 2x, i've been waiting for this episode!!

[@andrewshantz9136]

JBP should interview Dr. Robert Glover. He wrote the book on Nice Guy Syndrome.

[@garage13]

i thought this was glover initially lol

[@fdvboldhjbfv8791]

18:10 through 19:03- Dr Campbell giggles as he realizes the person he is describing is sitting right in front of him 🤣🤣🤣

[@petersinclair3997]

Agree, JP wanted to get his words in first before and more than Dr Campbell, who is the discipline expert. The highly accomplished Dr Campbell’s calm non-dogmatic matter showed he had confidence in himself, without a need to demonstrate superior intellect over others. Contrarily, JP seemed to answer his own questions in a manner that he knew would be validated by Dr Campbell, to support JP’s appearance as an intellectual. (There was some discussion towards the end.)

[@franswiggidy]

great observation!

[@sandrapoenar]

I loved Dr. Campbell's course at Peterson Academy! I was excited to see his name pop up on the podcast & I hope he'll continue to do more courses in the future! Looking forward to hearing and learning more from him.

[@sloanefrances1881]

I LOVE KEITH!!!!!! Your daughter’s conversation with him about personality pathology was génial!!!!!!!!!

[@strikeit_22]

So if I'm a nice guy I'm a loser but if I'm not a nice guy, I'm a loser. Should I just give up?

[@1kstodd]

Cooperate with people who wish to do the same with you. If someone wants to use you, be an asshole. If they want what’s best for you and themselves be kind(not nice) to them. If they don’t what either of the above from you leave them be. Spend enough time with people while paying attention to them and they will let you know what they want from you.

[@CheerfullyCynical829]

You have to improve your appearance a bit and maybe take up a sport as a hobby. Or hit the gym more often, particularly weights. Most women want fit, physically strong, and somewhat athletic guys. Looks do matter to them quite a lot, don't believe otherwise.

[@kattheshredder6]

Stop letting people use you as a utility. Stop being highly agreeable and don’t be afraid to push back if you really believe in it

[@herminlionel1909]

@@kattheshredder6This. And stop using other people as tools as well as letting them use you. Be honest and don’t always try to manipulate others.

[@Paul-th9vr]

I am genial with other people and I don’t think that it is necessary to prove anything to anyone else just because you think you have too.

[@callum7081]

The difference is context you can be nice but if you’re doing it inauthentically or to get something woman will feel it and it’s unattractive.

[@LiquidTurbo]

That's called being genuinely kind - there's a huge difference.

[@misguidedpearls7456]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤amen

[@ハク-q6e1j]

I think this is way overcomplicated, in fact this is just a case of misguided incentives. Boys are taught to respect women and to treat them right, and if they do that they'll get girls, that is completely wrong and misaligned with reality. If they were taught to focus on themselves and mistreat women so that they would get girls, that's what they'd do. Both cases are inauthentic, but only one is seen as that because kindness is seen as a weakness, whereas dark triad characteristics are seen as strength.

[@kullekusk8136]

Well, charm and manipulativeness goes a long way, for both sexes. Also, all men want women at the end of the day. Now, it's easier to play it cool if you're already have they luxury of women liking you in general. A downward spiral is no joke. I think that it's moral to be humble about that. High neuroticism combined with a high libido is a recipe for disaster.

[@kullekusk8136]

@@ハク-q6e1j The only solution for men who cannot attract women at will is to go their own way. Focus on themselves only. If a woman happens to show interest (in those indirect ways which they often do it), then, only then! Can he be bold. And I think that very BOLD is the way. I don't mean bold in a mean way, but rather just simple and firm. Tell her like it is: your happy by yourself, you don't want to add any nuisance to your life. You'll date her, you'll be straight-forward, you'll take lead. She wishes to join you? Fine. She's gotta prove that she wants/has the same fundamental lifestyle as yours (to a reasonable degree, and she has to live and let live). Basically she has to add something to your life and be interested in you the way you are and respect you for it. Most will probably walk away (they would've regardless, if not directly then within not too long a time period). This is what I'm going to do. But firstly I need to put down the ground-work of my new life, build a solid income etc., and my woman should'nt have to deal with me until I'm ready. Would it be easier with her by my side? Yes. But that's naive to think that some guardian angle is gonna show up ready to do that.

[@LeonardJaenger]

An interviewer lecturing his guest and not letting him speak AND talking about narcissism. Brilliant.

[@karentonks7581]

Exactly 💯

[@Kaniala-l7s]

Peterson is the biggest tool in the world

[@danaekberg781]

He wasn’t lecturing the guest, this is a conversation between 2 highly intellectual people

[@fhowland]

It’s insane, the guest wasn’t allowed to speak!

[@chaokimwele2478]

I agree. Peterson sounds like a narcissist

[@paoloernesto2591]

The final minutes on social anxiety are very interesting. In fact I learned by myself going through extreme anxiety on parties and social events that I was centered in myself and having a kind of terrible soliloquy.

[@TheAnt3693]

well worth a few listens. kudos to Dr. Peterson. When I feel like im losing my way, im able to relate to something he speaks about and maybe have a chance to articulate it in the real world someday.

[@Paul-th9vr]

I think you are wrong, I think some of the nicest men I have met are nice, kind, very funny men who are also very strong men. They didn’t feel the need to prove themselves to anyone else. I found that the a**holes were the men who always had to prove how strong and tough they were. I had a nervous breakdown like you did and I was so lost and confused by the situation and I got better and much stronger and resilient. I am much happier now than I was before.

[@misguidedpearls7456]

I don't like nice men I love geniune men With real souls n integrity... One is a manipulator n hidden predator One is not.. Ill let u guess... Nice is for disney N a childish mindset In this society Evil serial killers are nice to people

[@unboundvision]

That's been my experience as well. I've never had bad encounters with nice men. I'm a nice man myself, and they tend to treat their women and everyone else much better, than the assholes who have WAY too much to prove. Most nice men are pretty secure with who they are. They make damn good husbands too.

[@genesises]

@@unboundvision i wonder if it's because this type of "nice man" usually being taken pretty fast makes people ignore this type of person. no competition for men and not available to women, so easier not to compare yourself?

[@MalcolmL-g6]

People are confused how a nice guy could exist in a messed up world. There's nothing wrong with being a nice guy who's also a geuinely good guy. The misconception is that you have to be a mean, asshole, douchebag and that's incorrect. There are people who are nice and good at the same time, but people find the story of the fake nice guy unmasking himself more interesting. That's the story they'll remember.

[@justinjex1]

I have made a point to use the term, “Good man”, and “nice guy” separately and emphasize that a “nice guy” is negative, but a good man is the positive. Redefine yourself in that way because society has already assumed the role of a nice guy. They are not good. Being a good man implies a maturity and competence needed for success in culture.

[@MaxLechthaler]

I've never seen a more accurate and helpful explanation of the male and female mindset in respect to dating than hoe_math's "Zones" chart. I'd love to see JP's reaction to it.

[@thistles]

This is a great conversation for parents of teenaged girls, in particular, but also teen boys. And all humans, generally.

[@tanneredge9774]

Glad to see Georgia has a very competent professor. Go Dawgs

[@DenisDeLong]

PLEASE chat with Prof. Sam Vaknin!

[@mthunzidhlamini8257]

He won't.

[@thistooshallpass5425]

That would be interesting 🧐

[@misguidedpearls7456]

❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@WhereTheyLay]

Won't happen. Vaknin had publicly slighted him numerous times. Would be an incredibly interesting conversation, if it ever did, though.

[@steveh.7664]

When I think of or meet nice guys, they seem submissive, passive, enabling and uninteresting.

[@steveh.7664]

@@martine8457 There's nice as in respectful, polite and well-mannered. Then there's 'nice' as in too nice, enabling, boring, letting others control your behavior or life, so on and so on.

[@assortmentofpillsbutneverb3756]

The is nice as in like a sage or a good priest. That is actually a more masculine and strong archetype so it really comes down to whether their being nice (manipulative) or kind (actually helping you feel safe or prosper)

[@CheerfullyCynical829]

Nice guys who are either boyishly handsome or ruggedly handsome and maybe a bit athletic finish close to first. Women care about looks almost as much as men. They do matter, quite a lot. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. The nice guys who finish last are either t0tal wideIoads or really scrawny, and probably pretty nerdy and like staying indoors.

[@kattheshredder6]

Also nice guys are only liked when they are needed to do someone’s biding. That’s why girls “like” them but not in the way you want her to like you.

[@steveh.7664]

@@CheerfullyCynical829 I can agree but usually with short term fulfillment. Women aren’t satisfied with men who lack masculine qualities in long term relationships. - of course these are generalizations but definitely something I can relate to from personal experience.

[@maddog7012]

Nice is a very superficial term..

[@misguidedpearls7456]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😮

[@daleleigh8321]

That's actually why it's so disconcerting that so many people seem unable to even allow men to claim that they are nice even if they're wrong it's a superficial term why are people getting so bent out of shape at the idea that a man attempts to acknowledge himself at a level that is basically 0.1.

[@younghatcreativenetwork2896]

​@@daleleigh8321 Nice is one of those terms that I wouldn't use to describe myself. I appreciate when people say that I am nice, but it's not really for me to proclaim. Male or Female- I think the proclamation of niceness is the red flag.

[@ohsweetmystery]

Agreeableness is a better term and is one of the weakest, most distasteful traits anyone can have.

[@daleleigh8321]

@@younghatcreativenetwork2896 I have never once met a nice girl that receives even one 100th of the vitriol men receive for claiming they are nice. Even if an arguably especially when a man saying they are nice follows other people saying they are nice.

[@hudbaoir3610]

It's nice to be back to psychology from all the political drama. As much as I appreciate the coverage of it!

[@malcolmdoss9748]

I really dislike nice people. When people just ignore all the gossip and let their light shine despite the haters it also makes me feel bad about how miserable, unsunned, and fake I am. Well, I'm glad I found a kindred spirit!

[@Toadallyawsome]

Im a “nice guy” just because im actually nice. Thanks for the extra stigma.

[@lew526]

The gentlemen in this interview give the impression that they don't believe you exist. I sympathize with you, but I'm not sure how to react to what they're saying here. I get the impression that they believe "strength" and "ambition" are the same thing.

[@sonininyaniso9683]

They are suffering from same thing. He who says...

[@Master_ofReality]

You’re welcome. It’s all part of the subversion of society

[@Hakasuma]

Well you would just be a nice guy. Its the quotations that really makes the different apparently. I was called a nice guy and they had to clarify it wasnt a "nice guy" but genuinely a nice person

[@reprobatemind6194]

Be good, not nice.

[@RandyLunn]

There are a lot of definitions for “ nice guy”.

[@acemanhomer1]

when it comes time to stand up…if your whole being is “nice guy”, then you are a coward in the face of tyranny, because you don’t stand up for what’s right, you have to appear “nice”, so you don’t say things that hurt liars and thieves and psychopaths and the lost, like the truth.

[@Kinghassz]

Thats very true, ‘nice guys’/ codependents usually marry toxic and narcissistic people and they usually lack courage when in those relationships and when it comes to protecting their own children from abuse.

[@msicy2851]

In this description, I agree. Someone who is "nice" at the expense of their values and the defense of the weak is a terrible person

[@Tittelintuure04]

​@@msicy2851saying that he is terrible is a little bit overstatement

[@msicy2851]

@@Tittelintuure04 any person who, instead of defending the weak, records bad things being done to the weak is a terrible person. Fake people who pretend to be nice but gossip and sew division behind peoples back are terrible. Etc etc. I don't see that as an understatement at all

[@Tittelintuure04]

@@msicy2851 I mean yeah people who gossip and pretend to be nice of course that is very bad.

[@cleanbootjack6959]

“*Papa was a rolling stone?” (No wonder he died.) ‘Mama was a black wider’ - ‘When he died all he left us was alone,” ‘so we walked with Jesus, drove Him everywhere, shared-the-love.’ {*Written by Strong and Whitfield meet the temptations. ‘72.} ‘Professor Jordon shouts out reading-and-writing as vital, I can dig that. For this author, P-WARS trumpet fanfare is saved to my Data Base, credited not-to-Miles but Maurice, Davis.’ 8:25

[@Cozy.Mood.B]

Dr. Peterson- Fathering generations of fatherless people

[@ashleyboyd2764]

I think you guys should make the distinction between practicing being polite and being nice. The last thing the world needs is more people that don't even bother practicing basic social skills. I can see how people could use these lectures to justify their shitty behavior.

[@NanaWilson-px9ij]

Try civility.

[@ashleyboyd2764]

@@NanaWilson-px9ij I don't understand what you mean. What about what I said was not civil?