Worst MMO Ever? - Secret World Legends

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Have guides ruined MMOs? : • Have guides ruined MMO...
Game Dungeon - The Secret World : • Ross's Game Dungeon: T...
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Careful, they're watching you.
Remember just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're wrong.
Conspiracies, Global secrets, lag, it's all here in Secret World Legends, an MMO based on espionage and occult myths.
Thanks to the Patreon supporters and Twitch subs for keeping the channel alive.

[@yaldabaoth2]

I wish this game (or rather: what it was before Legends) would be remade as a singleplayer game or even a trilogy. The setting, quest design and story is too precious to go to waste.

[@spompofleks]

Yes this. +1

[@Vesacek]

@@spompofleks I feel like Funcom could have been solid SP RPG developer and instead chose to be miserable MMO developer.

[@mtpaige1361]

Even the OG remade in an engine that allowed either actual action combat or Tab targeting with all the fiddly fun mechanics that got dropped early on, like blood mages needing bleed on enemies to gather "mana" for spells or it takes your own hp would be wonderful... Still salty that those unique aspects of weapons got dropped to smooth out the "complicated" combat when people were actually complaining about the wheel of abilities being complicated and confusing. Also still very VERY salty, that they changed to a "classic" and boring leveling system.

[@tokenghost4536]

@@mtpaige1361 Yeah Legends is so depressing to play after putting decent time into the original. I did blood/hammer and it felt amazing, plus the quests were the main focus to me, they were INTERESTING, like reading manhole covers for a serial number.

[@SouthernGuy5423]

I played the original Secret World and quit because the combat was SOOO bad. One of their biggest promises when they released again as Secret World Legends was updates to the combat system... what they meant by that was improved resource systems for combat... which, while nice, meant nothing at all next to them trying to shoehorn an action combat system and tab target system together. They ended up with the worst of both worlds. That said, the story of this game is 10/10 EXCELLENT. All of Josh's questions about the intro? They all become VERY pertinent later in the story! I'm sorry to see that they've let it degrade to this point. A genuine effort to improve the game's combat to make it actually fun and challenging is really all the game has ever needed to make it a truly GREAT game in my opinion, but either FunCom wasn't able to do so, or didn't want to invest the money to get it there. A truly sad end to a game with the most potential of any MMO I've ever played. Mostly wasted potential, sadly.

[@moyo2850]

this game had my fave quest ever of all time. you had to investigate a car crash, find info of the people who got attacked. then you had to alt tab out, check their id against a real website they setup and request a password change, to unlock their electronic device, that had a recording of what happened. took me an hour to figure that one out.

[@calciferlangary]

Holy shit, that sounds awesome.

[@alexreilly6121]

artificial timesink and outright pisstake much

[@moyo2850]

@@calciferlangary well to get to that point was hard. like there wore other false flag clues thrown in where I tried for a password, the name the DOB, employ ID, they had like a page of notes i read though. it was pain and then i was all like fine let me give this other shit a shot.

[@Azazreal]

@@alexreilly6121 Ah yes, best to stick to the tried and true, click thing to do thing until complete eh.

[@NecrochildK]

The one in early game that really grabbed me was investigating the town hall, having to actually use google to find out the meaning behind a painting IRL, eventually leading to an underground tunnel where you had to do all sorts of things including decipher Latin. Was rather proud of myself for not having to look up the Latin one. But this was back in TSW, not SWL. Not sure if they still have that puzzle. SWL was such a terrible change, TSW was my absolute favorite MMO and it just hit such a hard 180 where I can't even stand to log in anymore. Thanks, EA. Anymore, there's no more updates, I don't think they even managed to put back in the story as far as it went in the original release before they just stopped doing anything for it. You can still play both and they still have a continuous player base on both, but with nothing new coming to either, it's just kind of sadly inevitable.

[@jong.7944]

Worth noting that "The Secret World" (the 2012 MMO that existed before Legends) actually had a LOT more challenge in both combat and build complexity before it was systematically nerfed by the "New Player Experience" and finally lobotomized in Legends. The story is, was, and remains, however, amazing, like nothing in the MMO space. The "MMO aspects" of the game have always been its weakest parts from the beginning, however. Probably should've been single player RPG but Funcom got greedy.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

1) Theres a movie about that 'The NPC's dont seem to care' and it explains it nicely: 'Free Guy'. 2) Yeah, the game is just randomly rant-listing conspiracys, which is not even 1% of the Fun that Channels like Creaky Blinder, Sci Man Dan and Professor Dave do. Debunking and/or pointing-and-laughing (yes, thats 2 different things) is always fun. 3) 'Nen' from HunterxHunter is usually called the Best Magic-System in all of Fiction or at least Manga-History, but probably ALL of Fiction. And heres the funny thing about that: There is NO GAME that uses it as a System. None. I would love to hear what Josh (and his Fans) think about that.

[@Oops-All-Ghosts]

Jon, tbf, as someone who spent about equal time with both systems, the only thing TSW's combat had going for it was build variety. The floaty and unsatisfying feeling isn't something new to SWL, and the added complexity wasn't always a plus. There were also a lot of builds that just straight-up did not work outside Solomon Island, especially if you couldn't parse the byzantine gearing system, making it very unfriendly for new players even after the update you're referring to. SWL's combat system was hardly a 'lobotomization,' either; it was definitely more approachable, but it wasn't simple. The big issue with it is that it was still floaty and unsatisfying, and because the game shifted from TSW's more typical MMO combat style to something more akin to a 3rd-person action game, that became a much bigger problem. It was also, like TSW's system, very unabalanced, and because there was a much lower degree of build diversity, you quickly ran into the "everyone is running the same three versions of every class" problem. Re: SWL balance, like... Blood Magic was borderline-unusable in group content for like a month or two because the rewards for being in either of the extreme states were nowhere near sufficient to make up for taking huge damage for using its abilities, and hammer was just so insanely overpowered for the first few weeks that very few people were using anything else. The issue is like. The same people who designed this system were working on TSW's as well, and it had a host of very similar problems. I think a lot of the people who claim SWL 'ruined' it are remembering the time they spent learning and mastering a not-very-good system to the point where they could put something very effective together, and not remembering all the time they were told/told others not to use a whole host of skills (or even entire weapons, let alone weapon combinations) because they were borderline-ineffective. They definitely don't seem to remember how little guidance there was on actually putting those skills together, or how frustrating it was to try to respec in early-game content. The game always had problems; SWL's biggest flaw was emphasizing monetization and a more accessible, action-y playstyle over actually fixing most of them.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

@@Oops-All-Ghosts Can i ask you something, Ferenczy?

[@Oops-All-Ghosts]

@@loturzelrestaurant Pretty sure you can, yep.

[@jong.7944]

@@Oops-All-Ghosts I've never understood the "floaty" combat criticism... pretty much every MMO has the exact same "floaty" combat so if you're looking for some gory, visceral, survival-style hack and slash game you're in entirely the wrong genre. I was actually too generous describing SWL's combat system as "lobotomized" because that suggests there's still some remaining intellectual potential there. There's none. If you're trying to argue there's even the slightest potential there or any fair comparison to the original Secret World we're operating on two completely different levels of understanding, so...

[@Yliandrian]

I cry inside when i think of what the game used to be. The "looking for the clinic" part was heartbreaking, because it took a glitch to get a glimpse of the good old days. Then you realize it's gone for good. RIP SW

[@DNovac]

You always can play in old one TSW.

[@backlogbuddies]

Yeah i was surprised they removed the part where you needed to find his home, not follow the arrow

[@xynaptic]

Josh: "I had to endure this scene so you do to." Me: "No Josh, this is the time to fast forward." You hold no power here KZbin Illuminati!

[@endurement]

17:26 dude I’d be surprised if the writer went for some american psycho shit lmao that was weirdddd

[@jong.7944]

@@DB-pn3yb Very insightful comments about Kirsten Geary... a LOT of people don't get the subtlety and complexity of the story and the characters presented. Kirsten Geary as the "face" of the Illuminati has to be both stodgy, bureaucratic and corporate and at the same time make new recruits feel "special" and seem in touch with the "kids" so to speak, and of course in the process she comes across like a bad guidance counselor or unqualified human resources officer. That's not a weakness in the writing... the writers are totally self-aware that the character they've created is out of touch and the player is supposed to take her over the top dialog and sarcasm with a knowing smirk.

[@christophermyers6372]

Youtubinatti?

[@baker099]

I was in love with this game around 2014. I loved it. I loved how the original game focused on puzzle solving and trying to solve mysteries and conspiracies. The skill system was second to none.

[@tnecniw]

Honestly, I prefered when there were no classes.

[@sillyredsheep2421]

@@tnecniw Agreed, I think the game was better pre-rework.

[@tnecniw]

@@sillyredsheep2421 I mean the combat wasn't "good" still, but it was more interesting.

[@ivanmonahhov2314]

only if enemies had 3 times lower HP

[@Skenjin]

The Secret World was amazing fun. Then it became Secret World Legends and everything went to shit.

[@joshualuke7003]

The setting, writing, characters? All awesome. Would make an AMAZING Bioware style RPG. But for some reason the studio was adamant it be a mediocre MMO.

[@trask9100]

I wouldn't trust BW with this with their track record lately.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

They split their resources between Anarchy Online, Age of Conan and this one.

[@ShroudedWolf51]

Well, an amazing RPG. Bioware haven't made anything amazing in a long time and even their great works were limited by bizarre, unhelpful design decisions. Like that stupid four choice dialogue thing that seemingly always fails to communicate exactly what it is that you will be saying.

[@niallreid7664]

An amazing Larian RPG. I think that's appropriate.

[@joe77andino]

A Conspiracy theory game would be kool , if the game was like Snatcher on the Sega CD as well , or a DC comics of *The Question* had a single player game

[@MaraStaaru]

Everytime I watch a video about The Secret World being a bad game or it dying, a part of my heart dies. I don't think I ever fell in love with "mmos" until I played The Secret World. Mostly because it was more than that. I actually felt important doing these quests, going around, solving riddles and puzzles, figuring out the mysteries of the world. It really is heartbreaking though, that Funcom has stopped caring about this game.

[@CommandanteRamon]

Yes, I can understand that. I haven't played it, just watched this video, but it would have enraged me to be in "Kingsmouth" and fight Zombies and not Deep Ones. They don't have to call them Deep ones, but they should look like them. And maybe you should sneak around... shit, shall we make a video game together?

[@SouthernGuy5423]

I played the game when it originally launched. The story was fantastic, the setting was amazing, the puzzles and investigation were absolutely incredible! But the combat was crap. Utter, total crap. Even back then. I was genuinely excited when the announcement for an updated combat system came out. The problem was, the updates to the combat system did nothing to address the problems with combat. This was a visionary, genre establishing game in a lot of ways... but their decisions for the combat systems and balance doomed it. I'd love to see The Secret World redone in Unreal 5 with a decent combat system, one that either went 100% Tab-Target (like WoW) or 100% action combat (Like Dark Souls). I think The Secret World (as it was at its original launch) but with a Dark Souls-esque combat system would be an amazing game.

[@plot6520]

​@@CommandanteRamonI know it's late and I don't know if you've played it, but they're there, but way too high level for you to fight them at the start.

[@TheShadow9387]

Sameee ❤😢

[@TheWanderer1990]

I miss this game so much, it's a crying shame how funcom have handled it, it had so much potential before legends and has such a unique and fantastic story in the mmo space

[@hazalad]

Exactly my feelings. The only MMO I really enjoyed and stuck with.

[@10BSH]

This,

[@rdpytb]

yes, indeed. I missed the "MMO" feeling though, there wasn't too many players when i played. =/

[@Tanglewalker]

Yeah I really haven't enjoyed the relaunch as Legends. It feels like the game was simply made too easy. A lot of the questing was redone to make it easier for players, like adding in waypoints and making it more obvious, rather than requiring actual thought and detective work like it used to. And combat was made more simplistic, and the enemies much easier. Before, at least it had a niche as an MMO made for more hardcore players who wanted a difficult game, but now it's a game that appeals to basically no one.

[@TheWanderer1990]

All they needed to do was thin out the ability wheel, probably get rid of the aegis system and add the OPTIONAL action targeting mode like STO has and they probably wouldn't have lost so many players, such a waste of potential

[@Late0NightPC]

I love how Boone introduces himself as "The last of the cowboys" as if the Cowboys were secretly some kind of formal organization you have to work hard to be able to join, and not just a bunch of 'muricans who raised cattle and worked on ranches. It's like in 300 years, you walk into some dark closet in the back of the building and get introduced to "Kaine, last of the Janitors" who sees the evil filth in the world, and you need to team up together to "Sweep the evil out of the city..."

[@corybrown3281]

The term has a much larger and widely accepted meaning though.

[@jabberjaw4289]

Lol last of the janitors

[@NSFSponsor]

He prolly means cowboys as in free spirits or something. Not literal ranchers.

[@m__y-t-s]

So, Ahti?

[@wolfsmith]

Fully invested in Kaine The Last Janitor, ready to sweep!

[@ajlikins]

I was -obsessed- with this game some years back, before Legends. The storytelling and the puzzles are just wonderful, but I agree that the combat system is.... Quite bad. Secret World would have been better as a single player survival horror/puzzle game.

[@nighlektolmn5390]

this game overall has such vibes that you get from sp kotor games, or vampire the masquerade games, or deadly premonition..totally should've been sp

[@The_Shimra_Wizard]

@@nighlektolmn5390 either that or sp/coop or even mmo lite. But full on mmo was a mistake. Or if the combat was simply updated to be more engaging and enjoyable things would be much better. However sadly I doubt that we will ever get a modern game in the same universe as Secret World

[@gregdaweson4657]

Why the strike-through?

[@thegrayyernaut]

@@nighlektolmn5390 I agree with the 'Vampire: The Masquerade' comparison there.

[@masturone8257]

Would be great as the original survival game that made that genre big. They had 3 way pvp already too

[@Atomic_Mousetrap]

I have to admit that I have a soft spot for Kirsten Geary from my time playing the original Secret World. I mean, she's a little cringey, but I thought it was charming. It came off as deliberate to me, that she was an upper-management corporate type who was vaguely out of touch with real people.

[@WereScrib]

Yeah I feel like he completely misses the point of her. She's supposed to be a corporate creep 'Yeah I am like SO hip and SO smart.' She's..supposed to be that kind of person.

[@Heeroneko]

I always read her as 'that boss you hate whose job you're gearing for'.

[@RoyAnderson]

@@WereScrib I suspect you may be missing the reviewer's point, actually. ;) What he's saying is that the dialogue and character is so ridiculously corny that no secret society--let alone the vaunted Illuminati--would ever have someone like her on their staff. Real life corporate executives wouldn't be caught dead acting that immature, so why would a member of the Illuminati? It's almost like a child's caricature of how they think an adult would act. What they should have done is have your handler be someone old, severe, and no-nonsense.

[@arcpopalot5884]

while the original release of the secret world was far from perfect, it was still one of the most unique mmos that ive had the pleasure of playing. not SWL though. all they managed to do was demolish the combat even moreso

[@Jinrai_]

I still haven't played an mmorpg that hooked me like the original Secret World

[@yhossarian]

yeah, the giant skill wheel from TSW and the interesting synergies you could come up with made builds so much more interesting than SWL. I know they were trying for a broader audience, but it just ended up failing.

[@GatorRay]

And to me do something counterintuitive to what I think they wanted to do to start by adding classes (At least that's the impression I got from the DOAG episode on Secret World)

[@willbear2173]

Honestly the combat was pretty trash even before. Like its cool that you could customize your build heavily but combat was never super fun.

[@charlestrudel8308]

@@willbear2173 it wasnt enough fun, as shown in this video, this video dont even mention the free to play side. that just means the original secret world would have close to the same amount of flaws as this version of the game.

[@DifunctedReble]

10:35 That "modern" feeling city actually is a 1:1 recreation of the Brooklyn Bridge area. I was actually a Founder member for TSW. What drew me in was the puzzles (that morse code one at the airport was a pain though), full VO, and the lore. Unfortunately I didn't have the best hardware to run it at the time and by the time I did they already had moved on to Legends. Sadge

[@kezeal]

Haha, the morse code one is the only one I have fond memories of. There were three of us in a group trying to figure it out, and it was a fun adventure :D

[@il3322]

å⁰00

[@MythicByrd]

I've heard that it's still possible to play the original secret world if you have your old account/key - obviously there wouldn't be much of a player base, but you could if you want to

[@MrLockfree]

I wasn't a founder but in the same boat. I only had the hardware and money to be able to really play it after the transition. I'll still have fond memories of feeling like a detective as well as just killing things. And the in game web browser was so cool to me, but maybe they should've just done something like GTA V where it's preset sites, some you click on and some you have to know what to type in an address bar.

[@DartictheuniC]

@@MythicByrd did that a few months ago, kind of like wow private servers there is something to change in the Legends launcher to access the old version, still works but I met like 2 players there

[@Subxenox15]

Playing The Secret World back in like 2012 was incredible. It was unlike anything else ever released, it was puzzling and intriguing, just a perfect mix of MMO and Horror...Too bad they ruined it.

[@Grigeral]

I'm glad I got to experience this game properly 'before' they ruined it at least.

[@joshuarodrigues8962]

I played the original TSW probably about the same time and it was REALLY fun. It was different and not just your standard fantasy mmorpg.

[@ZRFehr]

One of my tattoos was actually inspired by a Secret World investigation quest, in a way. When my mom passed away I went through...a lot, suffice to say. In TSW one of the investigations had me bouncing around translating some latin, and one of the phrases was "Non Sum Qualis Eram" - I am not what I used to be. So that is now sitting on my inner right forearm.

[@rasko125]

Sorry for your loss. Many people find different things to get you through difficult times, glad you found yours.

[@AdminAbuse]

Ok

[@unironicallydel7527]

this is actually a pretty decent game, all in all. It does have a shitty combat system. And its fairly big without much substance. But it has an amazing story and its expertly voice acted. Its just fairly boring. And tedious. I do love all the lore they've lovingly crafted for it. But yeah.

[@MrGalactus95]

So it's a decent game but it has bad combat, not much substance and it's boring...?_?

[@centimanj8916]

@@MrGalactus95 Its a really really good story, has Beautifull setpieces, good Music, good Voiceacting, and it overall really draws you in. It just really sucks at beeing a game. That you, you know, play.

[@brunoslybruno]

in a way, it'd be a good book, or visual novel

[@Arkuzian]

@@MrGalactus95 it's the type of game that somewhere in the first actual hub area it "clicks" and you finally get it why people play this. but honestly some weapons are garbage to start with, the new updates seem to have introduced these crashes, the illuminati side of the story is as cringe as it gets so very high chance to uninstall this game until you get to the "click" moment. and not to say the weapons are bad, but they are balanced around end game where you have most of the skill points and passive points bought so they are garbage until max stuff. all in all very niche, personally i gave up on it when i reached tokyo and would gladly not return to it

[@MephiticMiasma]

my main problem with the combat system (at least in legends) is that the animations seem to be about two seconds behind whatever the combat system is calculating. I'd wind up taking several more swipes before the npc would fall down, hate to think what that sort of lag does at higher levels of play.

[@moritzlehmann1264]

sad thing is the original "the secret world" was actually an amazing game . few years back after some research i found out the original serveres were still running while they released " legends"

[@uppsie]

Yeah, if you had an account from back then you can still download and play it, there is still a community there.

[@aubreymorgan9763]

@@uppsie i've heard this too, but can't find the links to download it.

[@vccomicx6261]

​@@aubreymorgan9763 kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIqzY4VpYstqgLs

[@Lleanlleawrg]

@@uppsie About 20 players but yes.

[@onagda]

The fact that Josh's first experience with this game was nearly 1:1 identical of what I experienced with the game, down to the Doctor dialogue breaking, is what made it for me. When I first saw the Worst MMO Ever series a while back I have been waiting for this one for a while, because I knew it wouldn't be good. lol.

[@paltrax]

he made so many mistakes here it's not even funny lol

[@snaccking]

The story and aesthetic of this game were everything. A modern/proper version that isn't P2W would be incredible. If they just didnt half ass some of the game it could have been so much better. In so many ways this was the MMO for me but they skimped out in areas that are simply unacceptable.

[@alesthra]

P2W? Win what exactly? Ability to play E17 raid/dungeons? I mean...game has basically no PvP, all content can be completed with epic gear which you should have even before you finish game's story. Cash shop stuff? Do I need to remember you that some quests were locked behind paywall in original secret world, unless you bought lifetime subscription for 200€?

[@backlogbuddies]

@@alesthra There was 1 preorder quest that was locked behind the lifetime sub that was later given out for free. The others were issues which were expansion packs that added new areas, quest lines, and more.

[@g_satyros]

Believe it or not the original Secret World was a brilliant game. Not aggressively monetized, insanely high quality story, innovative quests and combat and by far and wide the best atmosphere an MMO has ever had. The issue was that content quickly dried out after the initial launch. You can play that one same brilliant raid boss fight (that huge monster you saw in the dream intro) only so many times before slowly but surely the guild starts drying up. Then the vultures came, wrecked combat, added shop popups and turned this gem into Secret World Legends.. In over 20 years of playing MMORPGs, this is the one game that touched and resonated with me the most.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

1) Theres a movie about that 'The NPC's dont seem to care' and it explains it nicely: 'Free Guy'. 2) Yeah, the game is just randomly rant-listing conspiracys, which is not even 1% of the Fun that Channels like Creaky Blinder, Sci Man Dan and Professor Dave do. Debunking and/or pointing-and-laughing (yes, thats 2 different things) is always fun. 3) 'Nen' from HunterxHunter is usually called the Best Magic-System in all of Fiction or at least Manga-History, but probably ALL of Fiction. And heres the funny thing about that: There is NO GAME that uses it as a System. None. I would love to hear what Josh (and his Fans) think about that.

[@scotch4890]

100% agree it was my favorite mmo

[@TalonCzar]

The innovative combat in TSW was also the same floaty, non-interactive and laggy shit that JSH is pointing out here. I distinctly remember my super duper ultra rare assault rifle taking about 15,000 bullets to kill the average 'hard' monster because ''it was a healing hybrid weapon.'' The premise of TSW was new and interesting, but pretty much everything involved in the execution was half-ass. But that's pretty much standard fare for FailCom, the same company who ruined their other, previously interesting and unique MMO's in their list of failed IP's.

[@sazoku]

i wonder why it died then?

[@thelegend8570]

That's so sad honestly, I would have loved to see what it was like back in its glory days...

[@erbgorre]

"having a really good game here that is actually held back by trying to be an MMO" is exactly how i would describe roughly 98% of MMOs released since WOW. the design process for a modern MMO is literally "take a good idea for a video game, develop the core gameplay loop, and then add anything you can find that might make playing it less fun."

[@RambleOn07]

Yeah this should've been a instance based pve party/solo game

[@zubrhero5270]

Really could be absolutely anything it wants with the concept. I'd play a 1-4 player co-op FPS version of it a la Zombies. I'd play a GTA Online version of it. I'd play an MMO version of it. I just wouldn't play this... I tried it all the way back at the original launch and it was exactly that... they'd just thought of a really cool concept and tagged unnecessary MMO bollocks onto it.

[@skyknight0408]

I think you accidentally just described the complete process of making Genshin Impact!

[@PetitTasdeBoue]

@@skyknight0408 Genshin Impact is a AAA gacha not a mmo tho

[@skyknight0408]

@@PetitTasdeBoue Still has good core gameplay ruined by adding everything that makes it less fun!

[@Oops-All-Ghosts]

I think there are two big problems with the graveyard tutorial vs. the subway tutorial, beyond the fact that they're both dreams--one with the actual layout of the game and one with the way it affects the story. The events of the subway section do fairly clearly connect with some of the stuff that's hinted at in the first set of semi-prophetic dreams you have, and the idea that the Illuminati and Templar are using a dream sequence as a sort of tutorial is kind of neat (I'm not giving the Dragon version credit for that). Problems are: 1: In Secret World Legends, it's the second tutorial you're dumped into. And while it served a useful function in TSW, in SWL it's basically just re-exploring a bunch of stuff that the first, new tutorial now already covers. And because the subway tutorial was designed for a complete different combat system (old one was much more complex and MMO-y, although it was still not very good IMO), it ends up feeling a lot less effective at covering what it needs to to get you understanding the game. 2: In Secret World Legends, almost all the interesting story concepts that the subway tutorial *hints* at are explicitly stated in the graveyard tutorial. Even the characters you meet in the subway are people you have already encountered in the Manhattan fakeout fight. The space teaser at the end of the Subway is not an effective hint of something great and terrible because you've literally already seen Cthulhu burst out of the center of New York, so why would you care about a few planets? Like TSW, if you go rewatch that whole opening sequence up to the subway, it definitely still has a problem of taking like. 10-20 minutes to get to actual gameplay, and that's if you don't get lost trying to find the right NPC in your hub city. That was why they introduced the graveyard section; they wanted to break up the series of opening cutscenes by giving you something to do. But the issue is, like... Just inserting all these big setpieces completely undermines any attempt at subtlety in those cutscenes or the subway section. Like on one hand you've got these two strange figures in black and white giving you diametrically opposed instructions in a clear effort to sway you to their side, and then on the other the one who was saying it "wasn't her place to intervene, even if this is merely a dream" is handing you a shotgun and telling you to go ham on a zombie. And who cares what that big British voice trying to bribe you by offering the choice between losing everything and becoming a god is? You literally just fought Cthulhu. Again, the fact that there were so many cutscenes right off the bat was something that needed to be fixed, but they didn't really fix it; they just sort of jammed another thing into that sequence without adjusting anything to make it fit. Kinda just broke everything else around it.

[@backlogbuddies]

Dragon is the best. You get head and have a flashback

[@Rage-_-Quit]

The combat revamp killed the game for me. Had a pretty good time playing the original game before that, the haunted carnival and that forest with the monster moths were pretty memorable and quite suspenseful.

[@soulwynd]

Man, I loved the secret world. Then they went and screwed all the diversity of the highly customizable combat and crafting system and dumbed down everything. It's like they pulled starwars galaxies with this mmo. It had issues, yeah, but not fixing them and killing the good parts was dumb as hell. Also, anyone remembers the siren song? I still sometimes dream of that song.

[@MintyParsley]

Love it. I managed to get a download of it and I still hold on to that file. Been using it as a ring tone for years lol

[@KLGChaos]

Unfortunately all that diversity in the Combat system wasn't really used. 90% of players used Pistol/Shotgun for Deadly Aim/Breaching Shot and Cleanup. Plus, Elemental Force for massive damage on the final shot of each rotation before the nerf. There was just so little variation in combat outside of two or three specs. Not that SWL was any better.

[@soulwynd]

@@KLGChaos Yeah, it had balance issues. Some combos and weapons were too overpowered and combat wasn't responsive or reactive. But those issues were all fixable while keeping the diversity. They went fuxable instead.

[@cllandestine5603]

The first time you play that mission. I was terrified. Man I think someone pulled the song files out of the game at some point. I had the Lore Drop sound file as my Message Notifications for years :D

[@GrimalkinOnAir]

That quest was terrifying

[@Gyrono]

So one thing about Legends is that it took out one of the best aspects of the combat that helped make it fun: Make-A-Build. While a lot of the complaints Josh made are also problems of the original TSW (the combat has always been impactless), being able to create your own build with full access to all weapons, just need to expend AP and SP to unlock abilities, made it bearable.

[@rexanael243]

I loved the original combat system but it was also the reason i fell off the legacy version of the game. Because you could spec all over the place i had a sub-optimal build at the end of the new england setting. I just could not beat the final boss and a tried so many times. I actually played right through most of egypt once Legends dropped and enjoyed seeing more of the story. I like a challenging game but it probably needed a little tuning to make sure players didn't shoot themselves in the foot.

[@Gyrono]

@@rexanael243 As I recall, what are now the classes in Legend were just recommended builds that would be good enough for regular content and normal dungeons, but if you wanted to do end-game content like high-level zones and raids you need to make a build that would work. There was even a training dummy that basically gate-kept raids so that if your build wasn't good enough (not enough damage/heals, didn't bring a cleanse ability, bad mitigation) it prevented you from raiding.

[@Sir-Bane]

@@Gyrono Old Founder here as well, ahh yes the good old Gate Keeper instance. Once you had done all of the normal raids of basic tier, you had a quest unlock which, depending if you wanted to tank/dps/heal you'd have to pass a instance test for that role. If you weren't geared enough or didn't equip something really needed (cleanse or stun/cc etc) you'd fail. Same with the dps one, if you didn't manage to do enough AoE on one bit, or enough burst on another you'd run out of time. It was actually REALLY good.

[@TheGamingCabby]

I was actually going to write up a big thing about the Investigation missions in this game, but I figure it's better to experience it. If anyone here is interested in trying this game- in that first town, Kingsmouth, head to the church. Inside is a quest, the first Investigation mission, called 'The Kingsmouth Code'. This is the quest that hooked me. Try completing it without using an online guide. For similar quests, lookout for 'Something Wicked', 'The Vision', and 'Digging Deeper' in the same town. These are quests with no real player direction. You have to think, reason, and may have to look-up and reference real-world things. It's very much what JSH here was reasoning the doctor quest would be.

[@johanneskaiser8188]

That quest is among the best this game has to offer. Too many of the other investigations rely on obscure knowledge and/or skills to work out without a guide. Kingsmouth Code was just easy and accessible enough to be manageable without special training, and difficult enough so you'd have to think and be happy you figured it out in the end. Perfect balance.

[@Powk-mz1cp]

Some of the cakewalk quests were still a fun story to walk through. Ex: The Black House

[@backlogbuddies]

@@Powk-mz1cp I'm still mad the quest line for The Black House was cancelled.

[@Powk-mz1cp]

@@backlogbuddies it got canceled? It no longer .......spolier:::: Traps you in the b___room and tries to burn you alive?

[@PeeperSnail]

"Ah yes, the tactical, defensive hammer." They can't attack you if they're dead - taps forehead smugly -

[@ailurusfulgens1849]

I'm so glad I have experienced TSW when it was still alive. The investigation quests were so great and the skill wheel was amazing, even tho combat was whatever at best making build was an absolute blast. Even tho I know TSW and Secret World legend are ultimately different game, it pains me so much what it turned into. What a shame.

[@michajozwiak5557]

Yeah. Some of my best years in gaming, peak TSW. Legends can go die in a ditch along with Funcom corporate.

[@chabbab6698]

It never lived

[@DLMyth2]

Yeah, the original was better but I like the Tokyo region in the remake due to less grind.

[@pete-ph5xc]

Yep, I played it at release, and while the game, mechanically, was no big deal or revolutionary, the writing and the way the quests were built and handled was just fucking mind blowing. Hearing full speed Morse code, having to legit kill yourself to go find shit... It was just amazing

[@reginaldswann7445]

Once it went free to play I was out. It was so much fun initially.

[@BygPhattyPlus]

31:22 is the EXACT reason why I LOVED Secret World so much. Many of the quests were like this and that's what made it fun. And the story and setting was always what attracted me to Secret World in the first place! But you hit the nail on the head about all of it, pretty much. Honestly, if they'd just make this a single player game with drop in-drop out co-op, it would be PERFECT! i would buy it and all it's DLC in a heartbeat.

[@remainer]

exactly, I have a bad feeling that because this games inability to execute the idea well that games wont do something like this (setting, puzzles, etc)

[@bleukreuz]

I played the original "The Secret World" when it just came out and I thought it was a nice new MMORPG with a cool occult settings and cool quests. The main stories was divided into these comic book issues type of thing, which I thought was cool. The sad thing was it was not very solo friendly at all, so after the first quest hub (the lovecraftian zombies), it got too difficult to solo (impossible, really) and I stopped playing it. I think I stopped at the quest hub with the zombies in the school or something... Sad to see that it was changed to this abomination called Secret World Legend.

[@MrKnightlore]

This was pretty much my experience, I played the original game but tried this a year or so ago. Completely different.

[@SomeGuy-qh6rw]

It wasn't so much that solo mode was impossible, as much as it was that there was only a few different builds that were actually viable. They had it so you could mix and match skills, but in reality, only a few combinations were good, and the rest was hot garbage. No fault of yourself of course. It was poorly created.

[@Thisisnttravis]

I think the same thing happened to me! I always had this game in the back of my head like it was the one that got away and couldn't remember the name

[@diracsea4590]

I was lucky and that I got into a group of some great people and 4 of us stayed till the end. But you are right on with that line of thingking.

[@Kern361]

I did it solo. It was absolutly possible, but with a clever use or weapon. Some fight with heal, others with impairs...

[@brandonlee9316]

See, hearing Josh talk about this was like him going back and looking over Neverwinter for himself. I was someone that played the Original: The Secret World -- I didn't have the highest ranked weapons but I was just under it with Black Bouillon tier, I had a Templar that was only a dozen nodes away from having the Panoptic Core unlocked, and when I transferred over to The Secret World Legends, I got to keep all my fancy outfits -- with the Paladin Deck/Suit being my favorite as a Pistols/Sword main. And even with the downgrade in mechanical complexity with the change to the weapon systems and a more action style combat over tab targeting, I found that Legends still held up to the original in many ways that still made it fun for me. My partner and I had a group of friends that played with us, and we started a fairly big RP guild that we used to kind of corral our characters together and of course foster a bigger RP scene in the game; we were even doing a sort of tangential long-form story along with waiting for the release of Japan. Something a lot of people probably won't know is that the game came in 3 stages really: Stage 1 -- The Base Game The tutorial section and Solomon Island (Kingsmouth, Savage Coast, The Blue Mountains), The Valley of the Sun God, (The Scorched Desert, Temple to the Sun God), and Transylvania, (Besieged Farmland, Shadowy Forest, Carpathian Fangs). Now, for the longest time in TSL: Legends -- this ran smoothly, you could play on the highest graphics without needing to worry about constant crashes, there wasn't much lag, the game while less difficult mechanically than TSL: Classic was still mechanically difficult enough that you had to worry about being swarmed by even lesser enemies unless you really knew your build or were playing with friends. The story is GENUINELY fantastic - and I feel like if there wasn't as much frustration with the crashes and the hiccups, it probably would have been far better for Josh but as he said in his Neverwinter video: New players aren't/can't play through our memories. Much of those starter quests that seemed like MMO busywork (some of which were a little inflated) were setups for different areas and flowed into one another neatly. Defending the old woman's house? There were different types of zombies that attacked from different sides of her house: Fast, Cultist, Draugr, and Regular. And when you finish, she asks you to burn the corpses to keep the bodies from attracting others. Only -- one of the bodies you add suddenly turns the fire Blue(? I'm colour blind, so bear with me) and that's an abnormal reaction, something that hadn't been seen before. Which is why she asks you to get bodies from different zombie types to burn and see which one was the culprit. Which then leads you to the cultist zombie area. ETC ETC. Or the dream sequences/light powers -- there used to be 2 tutorials in the game that went back to back kinda. The initial dream sequence and then the one you have at your faction hub which would explain that you're not really using real weapons but moreso the manifestations of your inner light. The 'fly' wasn't a fly, but was a Bee from the Agartha (which is sort of a World Tree/Honeycomb sort of thing) and the reason that you have magical powers is because Gaia, the spirit of planet itself bestowed that power on you. The dream sequence was to set up something that you'd only come to know once you get further in the game, but since it seems kind of genuinely unplayable now (even by my own reckoning, I tried to go back to playing it recently and even in Kingsmouth my PC chugs BAD), there's no reason to fault Josh for not finding out about this stuff. It's meant to be a slow burn meta narrative that runs in the background while you're focused on the immediate issues. The Illuminati dream sequence the doctor gives you is sort of replaying the original dream sequence/tutorial for people to experience what I think was called "The Tokyo Incident" which was when some fucked up supernatural shit happened in Japan and sort of made it so that the whole of Japan is cut off from the rest of the world as all 3 secret societies try to keep "The Secret World" a secret still. Stage 2 -- The Tokyo Release What REALLY fucked things up is the Tokyo/Japan patch -- you see, the original Secret World had the entire base game, and then an episodic release schedule where they fed more and more of "The Black Signal" arc at you -- I noticed an INTENSE dip in quality of the game stability when Japan came out even back when the game was still relatively popular and well received despite the criticisms of the combat. I went from being able to play the game comfortably on the highest setting to needing to drop several things down to medium or low. But it was still playable and didn't crash very often. I was still capable of getting through the story, but I got more and more frustrated as time went on because I eventually couldn't partake in any large-scale content like the Japan Dungeons/Raids. Stage 3 -- South Africa But THEN came the South Africa patches and I think this is where the game entered the death spiral. I don't know if it's something they did when porting the game over to the new servers or maybe something that went wrong in the code from how they set it up - but I began to be unable to play the game at all without significant hitches or stutters and eventually my partner and I just had to stop playing since we had identical rigs. It was SO BAD that I literally haven't even been able to complete the first quest in South Africa and instead have been ever so occasionally trying to log on ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Despite my love for the game and my genuine wish that people at least try it to see if they can play at least the base storyline: Things I WILL NOT defend however, are the Web Browser getting fucked up somewhere in the dev cycle and them just... never fixing it. Because it was genuinely pretty great, and was full of in-universe websites or in-universe versions of websites that was necessary for solving puzzles. Whether it's tracking down Amazon item codes or translating Latin or like the security camera mission tracking down specific businesses or houses, it was a diagetic way to solve the puzzles of the game and it is infinitely lesser for it. Or the fact that they shove so many microtransactions at you, or the fact that the original "Premium" has not only increased in price but also that they've shuffled more features that used to be in the base game off onto that. And the fact that they seemed to have taken out or perhaps misplaced the tutorials that explained the various functions of the game to you, like crafting or how the quest system works with Main quests and side quests and pauses and such. And the addition of pay to win busy work like the "Agents" system which is like an idle farmer where you send off 'agents' on 'missions' via your in-game phone so they can get stuff for you. With success chances based on the Agent and their skill level but you can purchase higher rank agents from the cash shop with better skills. It was a wonderful, oft-forgotten gem as TSL: Classic, something that very few people seemed to know about or want to play despite the low buy-to-play cost (something like $30-40). A rougher but still desirable but perhaps more approachable uncut diamond as TSL: Legends but now it's a "Please try this once before it's perhaps gone forever". If ever there was a game deserving of a committed community taking it out of the hands of the developers via Private Servers in order to keep the spirit of the game alive but without all the predatory cash shop or performance problems? It would HAVE to be The Secret World. I remember keeping an actual in-character journal IRL - keeping track of riddles, runic translations, latin translations, names and dates and serial numbers -- cryptic directions, NPC dialogue in case something innocuous they said was relevant, and running an in-character blog where I answered questions from people as a character from the world that had well... done it all. I was one of those people that loved the game so much that I went through and 100% all the zones for the unique items and cosmetic rewards. Played every quest, side quest, dungeon when it became plot relevant, raid. An In-universe guru that people could ask about problems they were having somewhere. Whether it was their builds, weapon choices, crafting and sigils etc etc. THAT is how good this game used to be... and now I look back at it and all I have are my memories, and the sour taste of ash that one of, if not perhaps my FAVORITE game has been reduced to this.

[@stevanivkov1614]

I feel u dawg. Having your all time favorite game get fumbled by the devs is all too common these days and it just sucks.

[@vetkinaguya]

When I watch this, I get the same feeling I get every time I remember the old Secret World. I just wanna cry for what they did to it. Its funny how all the parts Josh liked were part of what made the original game special. Then they ripped some of those parts out (how leveling etc worked) put a weak "action" combat system on it and so we got this mess. I also don't remember the game regularly crashing for me. I really want The Secret World back, I really miss it.

[@Alien1492]

I play the The Secret Wolrd daily ... the real one ... it's still alive

[@octav3k]

@@Alien1492 How? I'd love to try it out, but can't find any way to get it.

[@rokuthedog]

@@octav3k the only way to get the original game is to buy someone's account from one of those mmo marketplaces

[@yol_n]

Wait, what did you had before this combat system? There was no combat?

[@Crulgao]

The original still exists, he says it very early in the video

[@thomasmartin2594]

I've always loved the ideas Funcom has come up with for their games. Anarchy Online, The Secret World, Age of Conan, but the implementation has always ended up lacking polish. As a friend of mine puts it "Funcom puts the F U in fun."

[@sirhc8927]

They have shitty engineers. But to be honest. The game company is a scam. They pump out garbage every year and people get scammed one time and never come back. But there’s a sucker born every year.

[@eyalfass7913]

@Sirhc I actually used to play another MMO with a funcom developer, they are good people, it's the management, as usual, that forces them to make crap. no amount of engineering can save you from trying to meet unrealistic goals on absurd time to deliver with shoestring budget.

[@Alejandrakoxxx]

@Xiya Noma 21 that's one helluva drug you are taking

[@NecrochildK]

@@sirhc8927 You can blame EA for that. EA is their publisher and TSW was excellent back when it was first released, but their advertising budget was so small, even many people waiting for it to come out completely missed it's release. It had a decent sized player base, but for years, not enough for EA's taste, so EA forced them to revamp it, took out a lot of the personality and intrigue of the game, even chunks of story and all later content, told Funcom to make the combat mechanics more like CoD to draw in those players and then shot them in the foot again on advertising budget. They were forced to cut out the story intro and just plop people in with "Here's how you walk and jump, shoot a gun, now go." As for advertising, the original had some really cool cinematic story advertisings. The release as SWL basically had what looked no better than mobile game ads with that sort of static animated poster art from the original TSW ad pages and they were shown even less than the original TSW adverts.

[@Digigavuk]

Played this from the first day as "The Secret World"... when i got to the computer where you had to type in vivaldi.. it got me hooked.. there was even a mission you had to work out some morse code. The questing was some the best in a MMO i'd ever done.

[@BunBurrow]

I'll be real, I played Secret World, the original, and had a good time with it, but I did have a bit of trouble getting behind the control scheme of the game. Everything felt a little jank, but the story was great, and the investigation missions had me and my friend thoroughly stumped for long periods of time, but we loved every second of it, so we dealt with the janky controls. When Legends came out, I did personally enjoy the fact that the controls felt a bit better to work with. That the build paths, which may have been more unique before, had been a bit more simplified and easy to understand. I was a tank, I used a hammer originally, and had blood on my back for some self healing/shielding. I had no idea if this was actually good or viable, but it worked for me. In Legends, I was hammer and shotgun, arguably felt much better, and I only knew about that combo because of their "class" system. I didn't care too much about the complexity being lost, because ultimately, my enjoyment of the game came from the story, and the world building, which were still amazing. My biggest complaint is that apparently, they just stopped updating legends to try and catch up to where Secret World was storywise. According to my friend, they started taking funds earned from SWL, stopped updating the game, and pumped those funds into Conan Exiles, a game that I personally love, but agree "Hey, maybe you shouldn't fuckin' do that." It's a game I will always look back on fondly, but due to general funcom incompetence, I don't know if I'll ever go back. I do miss it sometimes, as it was a gem of a game.

[@TheBonkleFox]

I played this game with some acquaintances when we were on a hunt for an MMO we could all enjoy together. I created what I charitably described as "G-Man's disappointing cousin once removed." The story actually hooked me from the first moment, which is actually something a lot of mmos just can't do for me, and I might actually return to this game just to continue the story someday. A shame the gameplay couldn't catch up to the narrative.

[@benalishes]

Omg did you find any good MMOs in your quest? I too did this quite a few times alone and with a friend and couldn't find anythign worthwhile 😞

[@TheBonkleFox]

@@benalishes One of our friends actually did end up enjoying SWL and put time into it. We also tried black desert but I got bored in 6 minutes of the story and didn't feel at all like continuing the story. Damn shame, tbh. I loved the Shai's aesthetic, but aesthetics can only keep me hooked for so long.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

1) Theres a movie about that 'The NPC's dont seem to care' and it explains it nicely: 'Free Guy'. 2) Yeah, the game is just randomly rant-listing conspiracys, which is not even 1% of the Fun that Channels like Creaky Blinder, Sci Man Dan and Professor Dave do. Debunking and/or pointing-and-laughing (yes, thats 2 different things) is always fun. 3) 'Nen' from HunterxHunter is usually called the Best Magic-System in all of Fiction or at least Manga-History, but probably ALL of Fiction. And heres the funny thing about that: There is NO GAME that uses it as a System. None. I would love to hear what Josh (and his Fans) think about that.

[@TheBonkleFox]

@@loturzelrestaurant nobody asked.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

@@TheBonkleFox And yet, you dont have to be D-ck 'bout it. Others literally arent.

[@hoodedk9955]

This was literally the only MMO I've ever been able to reach end game with. (I play different mmos with my brother who's way better at them than I) but when they rebranded it changed the whole atmosphere and it felt like the player base died off

[@khornetto]

I feel the original TSW had a rather decent, even great at times, combat system. All it needed was polishing animations and reduce lag. What the devs did when butchering it to make the living legends corpse of a game? Reduce it to a class system with weird gimmicky resource management on the weapons. All the freedom of mixing passives from all weapons gone, replaced by this linear crap, but they kept all the clunkyness they didn't bother to improve over the years. This game hurts me a lot, i LOVED the original, i met a lot of people through it, it has inspired me creatively in many ways. This shit couldn't even keep some of the previous atmosphere, thanks to it's overly crowded flashy AI they added for their new weapon system, or shit like the auto-grabbing missions with a loud female voice telling you about it are new as well... and well, could say more, but it's depressing to list everything. Also, the writing is excellent, sorry you couldn't enjoy it at times, probably from annoyance by the surroundings and crashing (that seems to be a modern issue) but it mixes being cheeky and irreverent at times, with some more serious and even creepy lovecraftian moments.

[@astralfrost6626]

I liked some things about this game. I remember doing a series of quests that were in a school overrun by zombies, it was awesome. The game did have a lot of issues though, surprised it's still around. Edit: wow, as I watched this review it all came back to me, and I'm pretty sure I went through the exact same thing you did where the dialogue glitched. I remember running around with that stupid tourist map and tearing my hair out and searching for the solution only to find out my game had glitched.

[@chumblespuzz9273]

Man, I remember playing through that whole area before it was turned into Legends. I recall having a great time with the quests and the general setting of the game. The combat however, was not something I fondly remember; in spite of me using ancient eldritch blood magic to fight off these zombie abominations, I may have just been throwing wet noodles at them for how non-impactful it felt.

[@beowulfsleeps892]

The original version of this game (Pre Legends) was pretty amazing - one of my all time favourites. I wonder if it still starts the same way? I played Dragon faction and that intro has less conspiracy and is rather more pleasurable, though perhaps not suitable for KZbin :p. Seriously though, some of the original quests are incredibly involved with Internet research with web pages for in-game organisations, going through real world literature or even decoding audible Morse code in real time. I played the story mostly single player until later and I recall that scene you played through comes up again (much) later... Zero crashes - but this was all pre-Legends. I feel like this is another game 'gutted', simplified and ultimately ruined. I've not touched the game since.

[@tophergerkey]

If you find getting sexually assaulted pleasurable, I guess.

[@xaayer]

It doesn't start the same way

[@NuchiAsaki]

It's just a foot massage.

[@slutmonke]

I played this game for a while (steam says 55 hours--thankfully with fewer crashes than you had), and it's really REALLY hit and miss. Many of the quests are stupid kill x or acquire x things that suck, but a bunch of the quests (probably from the original game) are amazing. They're the most innovative and unique quests this side of runescape. I had one quest where there was an optional objective to hack an antenna, and I had to lookup and use actual linux commands along with information on the screen to do it. Then there was another where I had to go to a real website outside the game for a fake in game company to look at the roster and find the name of the wife of an employee since it was clear from an in-game note that her name was the password to the computer I needed to get into for the quest. That level of immersion and interaction with the real world is unprecedented.

[@Limrasson]

My most memorable part of Secret World was the pre-launch event secrets. I really liked it and spent a good dam with my friend going apeshit over the clues. Like legit looking up manuscripts and whatnot. But somehow the actual game didn't stick.

[@Superw0rrio]

I stared so long at the static looking for hidden messages. Those were fun times

[@AzureGreatheart]

“Houston, we have a problem.” “Report.” “We overshot the moon.” “What.” “We overshot the moon, and arrived on Mars.” *”HOW!?* Oh nevermind, just film the landing anyway!”

[@TheDillidl]

Finally he's covering this one. I always had an ambivalent view on TSW: The setting, characters, lore all were presented so incredibly well, bonkers, yes, but believable nonetheless. The different types of quests were refreshing to see, but often lacked a clear path for progression. Gameplay was pretty bad tho. Classes and abilities were both bland and unnecessarily convoluted. There were no real mechanics, only plain tab target based combat, extremely unengaging. Story and gameplay always seemed strangely at odds, as with most MMOs. So it probably shouldnt have ever been one.

[@Tidandil]

Exactly my experience too. Just imagine if a big studio picked this up, cleaned up the combat but stayed true to the original vision. It would be up there as one of the best imo

[@xaayer]

On thing I liked is that the game stresses you aren't special, just one of the numerous agents for the establishment you work for.

[@mtpaige1361]

I just want a real remake, different engine wherein they can actually have combat that is either action or tab target with mobs that react, and feel heavy. Also don't call it a MMO at all.. just market it and never refer to it as an MMO, but a Co-op adventure RPG with social elements. :P

[@Liquessen]

It had charm up the wazoo, but the combat was so boring and clunky... And what he experiences here is the better version of it!

[@jotarokujo3603]

This game definitely sounds like it would suit a single player experience much better. It could be a really fun story focussed, single player game. Also the shotgun mechanic sounds really interesting and potentiality fun for tanking. I like to think of myself as a bit of a veteran tank player across multiple game genres and I'd love to play a functional version of that mechanic.

[@deeross2170]

I loved the Secret World. The stories were creepy and intriguing and the required research in some quests was top notch. I would love to have another mmo like it.

[@Neheon]

The story is still, to this day one of my favorites, but man would I kill for something that actually has better gameplay, better optimized and brought up to date for the current setting of the world. There's a very solid, and was a solid RP scene here, and this is still one of the few games that got me into seeing how good storytelling could be...but what it lacks, made me stop playing it. Gameplay, bugs and optimization, things Funcom is never good with.

[@shizunne]

I love Rosses Game Dungeon. He's played through some true gems over the years. Thanks for linking to his channel.

[@NickK1989]

Legends added all the handholding... the original game was really difficult and required a LOT more thinking. It was devastating to see it become what it had. They did this right after adding a custom museum system where you could get special achievements that gave you exhibits to decorate a museum with. Oh yeah, and I lost all of my cosmetics that I paid for with the transfer over, so I'd have to buy them all over again...

[@LynnHermione]

Being difficult is not a compliment

[@twocatsyelling723]

​@@LynnHermione Fans of Souls games would beg to differ. Being difficult is absolutely a compliment if that's what players are looking for.

[@jamesburton4352]

Good on you shouting out Ross, love both of your guys' content

[@charmishing]

Looking forward to this one. This was the first game that made me really want more skill based progression systems in mmos.

[@mrcorrosion1831]

Before the release of Legends, TSW had one of the greatest communities I've ever had the privilege to be a part of and a large part of what made the game for me. Sadly, though, Legends brought an end to all that.

[@Gabi-Alex]

They literally removed everything good from TSW and made it worse. Because the game went F2P, it gathered a lot of toxic kids too.

[@NecrochildK]

@@Gabi-Alex It had been f2p for a long time before it turned into SWL. It really wasn't bad until SWL

[@bloodrunsclear]

I like to think the Illuminatti girl is SUPPOSED to be insufferable: like a millennial who got too much power, and you can't wait use your own manipulations and power plays to take her down a peg

[@GuzziHeroV50]

As a casual player I much prefer Legends over the original format. It is more fluid to play, more like Guild Wars 2 in combat mechanics. Except for the Agents which are a pointless addition, SWL improved as far as I'm concerned. But the game is unplayable since I got a 4k setup with continual crashes. The lore and story are awesome, far stronger than the game design itself. But it's not FUN to play, much of the game is very dark and a bit sludgy to get through, if someone is expecting a fun adventure this ain't it. I wish it could be released, updated with new graphics and mechanics. I'd be back in a heartbeat.

[@DJtheEmoPirate]

Man I remember watching TotalBiscuit stream the original 'The Secret World' back in the day. Never tried the game myself, but it seemed like it had potential. Shame it has ended up in such a janky state.

[@NecrochildK]

It was so much fun. Me and my hubby and my friend miss it so badly. Especially my friend as it was her very first MMO. I was so proud of her for taking to it so well too. She had never attempted MMOs before and she really wasn't into horror, but the story was so compelling she immersed herself into it despite being scared. The story and elements were really right up my alley, but not only did SWL make the gameplay suck, they also never finished releasing all of the story back into the game that was in the original.

[@burnbobquist8999]

"Janky State" is the Funcom motto when it comes down to games. :D

[@NecrochildK]

@@burnbobquist8999 I've only played TSW, The Park and Moons of Madness from them, well, tried SWL, but it just killed what I loved by gutting the original TSW, but that was EA's fault. Are the Conan games janky? Or Mutant Year Zero? I really wouldn't have called the original TSW janky, nor the related games that tied into it.

[@DFZeel]

I knew that day would come...this game was among my favorites when it got released. It had the best quests i ever found in an MMO, especially the investigation ones. but FC decided to shut it down to release this legends thing :( This video will hurt me right in the nostalgia. But not as much as when it's gonna be Anarchy Online turn >

[@polrusstomakriss9001]

I agree 💯 same I played legends, got stuck and called it quits

[@xaayer]

You can still play the original game. Servers are still running and a discord of og players exists

[@DFZeel]

@@xaayer I didn't know that Oo I'll check it out for sure. No idea if they are "official" servers where my old lifetime sub account would work but just being able to walk around will make me happy. Such a unique ambiance and overall setting coupled with some fantastic voice acted quests.

[@T0asty-]

Same here. It's a shame.

[@T0asty-]

@@DFZeel it's official, it's just dead. :/

[@mr.tomasiorubinshtein]

During one of the dungeons much later this game, there were strange blinks on my screen which made it difficult for me to play, and I needed to pass that dungeon to advance the story. That dungeon also had a boss who would one-shot you without notice. The difficulty and the annoying blinks that I failed to solve eventually led me to quit the game, even though I really enjoyed it. These blinks applied only in that segment, by the way.

[@diracsea4590]

I played this game before it was Legends. It had its issues but the story wasnt so jumbled. All the same story lines where there (not the dream after eating the bee) but they integrated so much better, you were given you main mission for your faction but the stories of the people you meeting were weaved in so much better. It wasnt a MMO by the end (was a t the beginning), I really think they could redo this game and make it more like Dark Souls in that its all solo based but you can ask other agents to join in and help. The story of this game is what all MMOs should strive to be. I loved this game so much I did multiple video guilds, check them out (they arent reliant anymore but I know they helped a good number of people and I spent time on them and made them with love). I had a cable mate go to a con once and talk to one of the devs and tell the guy how I hated Egypt; I didnt hate the zone I just thought it wasnt as good as the other 2 (at the time there was only 3). I pour one out to all my Secret World friends out there from England to the US all the way to AU, we will meet again. And the Dragon Guild will rise once more (if you get the reference message me I would love to hear how you are doing).

[@IjustWantedToPost]

The moment you mentioned the quest not updating correctly, I thought to myself: "Oh, so that's why there's a pause quest option, so devs don't have to fix the quests that are buggy. You don't need to fix it, if the players can just redo it, hoping it doesn't glitch out this time".

[@Thisisnttravis]

Also super misleading to call it a pause lol

[@wotanmjolnir326]

I was in the closed beta of The Secret World, and was so excited about it - it literally ticked all my boxes. Yes, the combat was shitty, but the questing was so interesting and in depth - in the first zone. Then I got through that and into Egypt, and it just went ... meh. I think I had a couple of the additional chapters (Venice, maybe), but the writing peaked in the first part and didn't grab me beyond that. Still, that first area though was awesome. Innsmouth, sorry, Kingsmouth, the burned out motel, the abandoned theme park, the weird university, the lighthouse with not Stephen King at the top of it ... so many good memories.

[@loturzelrestaurant]

1) Theres a movie about that 'The NPC's dont seem to care' and it explains it nicely: 'Free Guy'. 2) Yeah, the game is just randomly rant-listing conspiracys, which is not even 1% of the Fun that Channels like Creaky Blinder, Sci Man Dan and Professor Dave do. Debunking and/or pointing-and-laughing (yes, thats 2 different things) is always fun. 3) 'Nen' from HunterxHunter is usually called the Best Magic-System in all of Fiction or at least Manga-History, but probably ALL of Fiction. And heres the funny thing about that: There is NO GAME that uses it as a System. None. I would love to hear what Josh (and his Fans) think about that.

[@jong.7944]

A lot of those characters and stories from Kingsmouth still stay with me even today. That whole area really was Steven King-quality writing, and yet, it was so self-aware in how loony the characters were that it really added a lot... they didn't get close to reaching that point again until you get to Tokyo and they explain (most of) the series of interwoven mysteries... though I think we all still have some unanswered questions about the plot that we'll never get the answers to (sadly).

[@hjorhrafn]

Same here. I've played through the Kingsmouth area four or five times since Beta and love it, but every time I get to Egypt I just go "Meh." and find something else to play.

[@khornetto]

I found the later part of Egypt quite good, and some of the side stories truly fun and interesting (like the train one, tho mechanically was clunky). And transylvania had a loooot of atmosphere, at times possibly better than Kingsmouth imo. Tokyo took me some time for me to enjoy because of the AEGIS system, but the characters were the best.

[@diracsea4590]

Did you ever join a cabal?

[@ZatomiAwake]

So the Rap loving Illuminati director woman (forgot her name even though I just heard it) is a reference to something topical for the time the game came out. There were a lot of conspiracy theories from 2010-2014 about high profile rappers being in the Illuminati (Nikki Minaj, Jay Z, etc) and some rappers even played into it because it was funny and kept people talking about them. If you were at all into rap during this time, that's a somewhat clever joke.

[@jessaminehaak8253]

I still play The Secret World (what came before this one) semi-regularly. I love the atmosphere and the class system is so engaging. I knew when they rebooted it that I wouldn't like this new version lmao... kinda sad.

[@freakyfro99]

I wish someone would come in and make this but as an actual single player RPG. God it would be so good! Or even just small improvements to the combat would help. I loved the setting so damn much I'm so sad it was wasted on this. My love for the general story and setting carried me through the first area but that's all I could take before giving up lol. Wow your suggestions would've saved this game so much XD

[@Max44321]

I'd really, really like there to be more modern day MMOs. What SWL has going for it is good interesting story, great voice acting, incredible immersive atmosphere all throughout (but fuck Egypt zones), great variety of casual and street wear and great attention to detail. What it lacks is combat and progression, with the endgame being just repetitive dungeon grinding for the ever-increasing gear score. There is a lot of love put into this game, and even if a lot of missions were cut out in the SWL re-release, the developers clearly put a lot into it. It's a real shame the publisher had no interest in doing anything with SWL but milking it and pouring all the money into their Conan games instead of back into the game to continue the abruptly-ended story. Even the one new zone they added is maybe a fifth of the size of other areas, and is grindy and unsatisfying. Also the Templars tutorial intro has one of the best lines you could deliver in an MMO, "You're not the chosen one, and you're not the only one. You're part of an army!"

[@ravensfaire8542]

Man I remember playing this game and loving it but.... It was for the side quests. The ones that had you decoding Morris code, matching notes to make a specific sequence of song to open a door or literally dying so you can become a ghost to get into places you otherwise couldn't to learn things you then carry back with you when you resurrect. It was neat to play something that took place in the modern world and I really enjoyed the parts where I had to read Egyptian hieroglyphs and turn them into Egyptian sentences and such but those are mostly side quest things. Hidden little gems on the side that make the game interesting and would have been cooler had they been part of the main questlines. So happy to see you reviewing this. I had fun with the game but the fact that I've never gone back to it after finishing all the episodes that were released at the time says something. It was fun but it had problems. Edit: oof I can see the game has gotten so much worse since I played... I never had crashing issues and it looks like they've simplified some of the puzzles. Sad v.v

[@doggyspeak]

This game is so poorly optimized that I fully uninstalled it but found out months later that it left *SEVERAL GBs* worth of data behind.

[@Ollidol]

Secret World had so much potetial and such a unique take on the mmo genre. That sadly we will most likley never see an mmo like that again.

[@koru9238]

Can I make an MMO recomendation here? I just wanted to suggest the "Wakfu" MMO it's pretty popular in France but I never heard from it from anywhere else. If I had to describe it it's a ftp turn based mmo with grid combat. And one of the most interesting features for me is that you can have 2 alts and have a team of 3 to do combats and dungeons

[@lemonZzzzs]

is it still severely limited until you pay for a subscription or did it go full free to play? It and dofus were both pretty fun a few years ago :D

[@koru9238]

@@lemonZzzzs the only thing the sub adds is a 30% buff to xp and loot I believe. They did a server merge so every server is ftp.

[@lemonZzzzs]

@@koru9238 oooh... i should dig up my ancient account info and see if my characters still exist xD

[@qaztim11]

Wakfu and DOfus are great hidden gems. The art design and a lot of the classes are very unique. The animated show and movies are also extremely well made. I hope we get a new more modern Ankama MMO in the future.

[@WassaWaterline]

"[...] because there is no way someone new is downloading this game crashing three times and not uninstalling." Remembering my time playing the 'The Witcher: Enhanced Edition', where it crashed so often I had to quicksave every few minutes, at the end of act one, I had over 300 savegames. Or I just have to name 'The Elder Scrolls', where the already high counts of crashes is multiplied by the number of mods you installed. So no, a few crashes never stopped anyone.

[@adamzielinski5213]

First off, I've only recently found your channel and I love it. I was especially excited when I saw this video pop up in my suggestions, because The Secret World was my biggest MMO disappointment until Shadowlands. You basically covered my exact feelings for the game in the video. I loved the concept, the world building, and especially loved the extremely novel investigation missions and quest objectives of having to find clues in the environment or in the browser (this was at release, so the browser still worked). However, like you said, the combat part of the gameplay was so boring, it couldn't hold my interest through that first zone and I eventually gave up trying. Just last week, I saw mention of this version, although I don't remember where I saw it. I looked it up and saw that it was a free to play, slightly re-tooled version and figured I'd give it a go again to see if they had retooled enough for it to hold my interest. Made it through the nightmare sequence at the beginning (which was a new addition, that was not present in the original release), crashed to desktop, and said nevermind. There was a lot of potential here and I'm sad that no one has taken that potential, polished it, and made something better with it.

[@CigsInABlanket]

I would still play this game on and off if we had more than one character slot. Usually, when I come back to an mmo after a year or more, I want to start fresh, but I also don't want to delete my previous character.

[@sneg__]

Make another account?

[@CigsInABlanket]

I suppose you're right, I could. But, once I saw the one character limit for a dead game, after I spent a day or three re-downloading and reinstalling it, I wasn't having it lmao. I logged on to my old character, looked at some of the progress I had made and event items obtained from a ~year earlier, and uninstalled.

[@sneg__]

@@CigsInABlanket Fair enough lmao

[@vauvakolibri]

Oh man, I loved the original Secret World, and just the fact that they had fake, in-universe websites made for like, the lighthouse writer's books so you could search the ISBN codes for a puzzle and so on... It was really best to be played with a friend while talking through Skype, where you could figure out stuff together, and overall other players were helpful and if they saw someone stuck, usually offered help incase you needed it. The missions where you had to kill your character so you could see and interact with the dead, that was so great. And overall it had somehow a very welcoming player community, especially after WoW and such where i felt too intimidated to join raids because I wasn't familiar with all the acronyms, but I figure TSW draws in a less competitive playerbase. What really bummed me in Legends was the level restrictions (I love exploring to way higher level areas to see what's there even if I get my ass handed to me, and in a game about cryptids it just feels fitting) that they removed the glyph Assembly where you could craft new weapons and items. Like, I understand why they did it, it was real busywork, but to me it was super enjoyable when between playing with my friend I could spend time mowing down some enemies to get glyphs and upgrade my gear. The new tutorial in legends was an upgrade though, TSW felt more like being thrown at the deep end immediately. But, I didn't have really any glitches or major lag outside raid bosses in Legends, so the amount of them now is weird.

[@Scarasyte]

Well there is a quote from an NPC in this game (once you get to Egypt) that rings very true "If you truly wish to understand humanity, you need only read the comment section on KZbin". Also I don't remember the original TSW crashing like this. They must have messed up something.

[@user-qd8pb2xq7j]

I loved the original Secret World at release. The setting was fresh and amazing, the atmosphere of the haunted amusement park, the storylines, it was just great. I dropped the game when I reached the endgame as it became a tad too hard for solo players. I was so sad when they turned the game into that.

[@Ncaruthersx1]

This game was actually fantastic when it originally came out. I remember having actual nightmares from how creepy it was, the story was brilliant.

[@rellianthebonemeowster3450]

I've got fond memories. Dragged a friend in to this game blind about two years ago. It was fantastic. Gameplay grievances aside, we were both very much focused on the lovecraftian experience. There's one point where you go on a very trippy, incredibly well designed dream quest type experience in what I believe is the second zone that still stands out as one of the best quests I've ever played in an MMO. But everything you've said is spot on and I can't find any real ground to dispute anything even though part of me wants to give the game some sort of defense.

[@necroticavalon5176]

About the crashing - set Compatibility mode (on every exe related to the game and it's launcher) to Win7. You'll thank me later. Zero crashes since I did that. For some reason SWL really has a problem with Win10. Also it has a problem with any forced graphics settings. Make sure everything is set to Application Controlled or Off.

[@dr.claudiafinch1088]

Imagine this but with SCP'S. You have your choice of three factions to choose from. The GOC, The Serpents Hand, or the SCP Foundation.

[@Spanner1971B]

The story driven experience of this game is second to none - theres always a layer of background deeper to go. (Oh, and it's a Bee that crawls into you not a fly - you do learn this at some point!) May be my favourite MMO - if it wasnt for the combat being so sluggish. Such a shame.

[@MrSuntzu1000]

Loved this MMO, really one of a kind. But it has aged terrible. Still this MMO together with wildstar has a special place in my heart.

[@HallowedKhaos91]

I hate that I never got to play Wildstar.

[@maxflaherty2268]

I miss Wildstar housing.

[@Mediados]

@@HallowedKhaos91 Maybe you'll get the chance. Some teams are working on a revival.

[@HallowedKhaos91]

@@Mediados I'll have to look into it. Of all the MMOs, that one seemed to have the most promise.

[@Mediados]

@@HallowedKhaos91 It was a unique one and I hope it gets a proper second chance one day. It's demise was an unhealthy mix of wrong decisions and pure unluck at the time.

[@ethreix800]

TSW (not legends) is the best mmorpg I've ever played. Voice acting, the story, dialogues/quests, atmosphere, music ... even the dungeons - everything was perfect (to me). Love at first sight, and love until death does as apart.

[@Spexerino]

Hello Mr Hayes, did you ever think about making a tierlist or ranking video of all the games you covered so far. I personally would really like some kind of going back at this point of this series, looking back on all the horrible MMO's you played for us and to see you rank the games. Maybe others feel the same. Thanks for all the amazing content, love your channel.

[@erulogos]

Secret World, in any form, has always been wonderful atmosphere, usually good (though not always consistent) story, enjoyable writing, and absolutely abysmal technical execution. Such massively wasted potential.

[@rabl3535]

I’ve been waiting on this one. Regardless of how it ended up I think the complexity of the puzzles with some being basically like ARGs is something noteworthy this game had

[@amadexi]

I played TSW for years. I quit when they released SWL (which is basically a 60% copy-paste from TSW, 40% removed content and features). The differences are: 1) addition of a mobile-like predatory cash shop 2) addition of a level system (and insanely grindy gear level system) built around the P2W cash shop. 3) removal of many contents (including all the pvp and the raids). 4) removal of the tab targeting system (the action crosshair system was ALREADY an option in TSW). 4) removal and dumbing down of many abilities and the "skill wheel" system, which was a huge share of the build crafting experience.

[@deckard210000]

I loved The Secret World when it came out. Illuminati all the way! Guns and force power. The problem I had with it was that gear optimization for the class system was really difficult to understand, so knowing if you would be good in a raid was hard to determine. Also, it came out during the flood of MMOs around WoW Wrath of the Lich King, so I'm sure it got lost in the noise. Podcasts were also really popular at the time and WoW had really good ones to listen to that built knowledge and community. TSW had a few but were really bad and did not really teach you anything or help explain more difficult aspects of getting into end game content. Those were the only issues I had with The Secret World at the time. When I went back to it a while later I played Legends, and they "fixed" all the wrong things and made it so frustrating and worse. The original version was so much fun, more normalized keyboard/mouse combat control, intent of concept to ambience achieved, and the puzzles were great for me who has a high tolerance for not having to look stuff up. So sad to see it go to this Legends version which I just don't want to play, even though I love the concept and world so much. RIP The Secret World. Good riddance TSW Legends.

[@Dreznin]

Man, as a long time Ross Scott fan, I just want to thank you for giving his Game Dungeon series some love - I'd love to see you guys do a colaboration, I bet the Worst MMO Ever series would be right up his alley, especially after his video about Games As A Service and his well-stated opinions on always-online games.

[@lovaszaron3138]

Would enjoy it.

[@pensive8552]

TSW is the most cherished experience I've ever had with any mmo. Such a unique experience in an mmo.

[@chuckchuckerson5364]

Recently found this channel, and really liking this series. Nerdslayer is one of my favorite creators on KZbin, particularly his "Death of a Game" series, and this is definitely in the same vein. Thank you for creating awesome content, going to go through this whole series now.

[@HellcatM]

The Illuminati woman: "I love classic hip hop, don't you?" Me: "No, I'm going to the next shadow cult maybe they like metal."

[@FatalKitsune]

Always nice to see Ross get some shoutouts. He’s one of the hardest working content creators on this platform and his channel is pure gold.

[@henrik2518]

I watched his TSW video and is was painful to see him shit on the combat mechanics while showing footage of him spamming aoe builders nonstop like a fucking clown

[@ryanrose9786]

The setting, concept and inspiration (local myths and legends mixed with Cthulhu mythos) makes this one of my favorite MMOs of all time (being a horror, myth and all around lover of things spooky). Other 2 being City of Villains (mastermind is life) and Warhammer Online (best pvp experiences I ever had). With Conan also being close (I'm a suckered for anything that allows necromancy in games).

[@rexanael243]

RvR in Warhammer was the most fun I've had in an MMO to this day

[@madrox1989]

I had to doubletake there in the intro, I thought I was watching Hellgate London for a moment there!

[@Invctus]

In the TSW servers it doesn't hold your hand as much, but combat is still floaty and weapons never feel solid. I found somewhere in the explanations that when you are fighting, you are using Anima based attacks which lack the solidness of normal weaponry but are much more effective against the supernatural threats you face. However you also loose some of the target locking, also the world is empty. SWL servers plays like a clunky patch on top of the old TSW mechanics, I noticed that non directx 11 crashes vanish on TSW servers, also check the option to download the full client. TSW servers get rid of MMO role based weapon/classes, all weapon/classes can be tank or whatever. The greater mysteries of why you, what the glowy fly was, what it all means, etc; those aren't revealed until between Acts and into Act 4. TSW servers are great for story driving. You will still have the Dawning of a New Age multi-tier quest, but for example, the part where you need to chat to Norma just tells you to talk to survivors around town. Investigation missions are the most puzzle intensive types. It gets much better 10000 hours in.

[@kurist9443]

this game used to be amazing when it came out the storytelling was just soooo good. but they fked it up like all the other

[@cerberusmutt4252]

So glad to hear more people sharing Game Dungeon, Ross does such phenomenal work

[@tylonhy3na613]

We need more modern MMO's like this but better gameplay. I agree with alot of people on Secret World og was more challenging.

[@magenpie_4009]

It's a flipping tragedy that The Secret World ended up in this state. The original game was fantastic, with an amazing narrative, great characters and interesting, challenging combat. We craved the next step of the story. But trubble-at-home with the developer crushed it's future and the abomination of Legends was just a claw-back cash-grab. But even though it's a shadow of it's former self, I still think the creepy Lovecraftian opening 3 zones are some of the best in an mmo in terms of story. Such a shame.