Worst MMO Ever? - Underlight

[@anoninunen]

Step 1: Set up a fantasy VR-chat server Step 2: Set up mods as questgivers/shopowners Step 3: Have everyone abandon the server in bitter regret - you have remade Underlight

[@MoriShep]

facts......

[@txorimorea3869]

Just add some vomit in your VR gear and that is the future of meta.

[@Sorrowdusk]

@@txorimorea3869 Why vomit? And not.....other fluids?

[@0grilo0]

@@Sorrowdusk or solids

[@anoninunen]

@MrDjBigZ Maybe an empty city map in Gmod. An abandoned Gmod map would have a sort of Fallout-style lore, with player-spawned explosives, obesities written in rope, and a cloud of manhacks large enough to crash every computer. There would be a history there, however ambiguous.

[@-Keith-]

Clearly, the game designers were ahead of their time. They already created the metaverse, and what you're seeing is the inevitable aftermath.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

Clearly they have the US patent rights and should sue Facebook... excuse me, 'Meta', and Earth 2. Before someone says something, yes, I know patent rights only last 20 years.

[@MoeBillGaming]

@@professorhaystacks6606 SO THATS THE REAL REASON WE'RE JUST NOW GETTING THE METAVERSE!

[@planescaped]

The game designers were the OG's of being up their own asses. I get the impression Underlight was made by a psychotic neckbeard who constantly roleplayed as a "teacher" back in the day. Only a real life Milton from Office Space would make a game like this. >__>

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@planescaped This game was from 1998. The very concept of an "online world" was still new to just about every single person around. It is extremely easy to take the idea here at face value - a video interface to be placed atop the exact sort of community that existed in old RP forums and IRC rooms.

[@angamaitesangahyando685]

​@@PhysicsGamer People in 1998 were so advanced. The moment we stopped flying to the Moon, the MMOs turned to garbage. Coincidence? - Adûnâi

[@Gravewhisper]

"There's one other player on and he's spawn camping me." - This is pretty much what I think of as the inevitable outcome of all "player driven" games. :D

[@lilwyvern4]

That's the fun thing about bullies. Their idea of a good time requires the cooperation of other people, and if other people have an option that doesn't involve being bullied, they're not going to cooperate.

[@theeragon8797]

There are ways spawn camping and stuff have been ironed out of most of them. Like shields when entering an area and areas where u cant get murdered. They have to be in them for it to be right this is just a old one

[@lilwyvern4]

@@theeragon8797 Yeah, this is basically the way. If a game sells itself as PvP and you're getting mad for losing in PvP when everyone else goes through the same thing, you've really got nobody to blame but yourself. (This is why I stick to co-op stuff. :P)

[@theeragon8797]

@@lilwyvern4 yeah i play a lot of Albion im past the point of caring for me just dying. But from experience because I started it with 3 others that first death is basically a turning point on if you stay playing or not im the only one who stayed but it makes sense they’re a niche

[@ZorotheGallade]

That or a small guild of players constantly approving each other's RP gain to become unstoppable.

[@tcurt9975]

Had a dawning realization when i saw that the only player left was "Emphant" the name of the same enemy you kept recurring over and over and with the explanation on player monsters it almost felt you were setting up to reveal its true nature. Imagine that, the only other living thing left in this game and its become a raving beast left to wander for all eternity and the first time it meets someone else in what i like to imagine has been eons they find themselves incapable of responding. Its some i have no mouth and i must scream shit and i love it.

[@TheSleepyShadow]

Hadn't noticed that. Brilliant catch!

[@AcoriSage]

But it did respond. "Prazah, JoshStrife, Prazah!" According to the wiki, prazah is Maren language for fight, and considering this was after seeing Josh fail to attack the first time around, I think this monster is simply begging for engagement, for a reflection of the violence.

[@thema8871]

@@AcoriSage fuck thats cool. Nice research

[@PeeperSnail]

"They were born into the world at the wrong time. Grew up and watched the once lively visages dry up and be deserted. They were promised it was no reason to worry, that they'd never truly be lonely, but it was all lies, as the ones that told them that had also departed." "So alone in the world they sat. Human in nature, it wasn't long until the deafening silence broke them and they attempted to create bonds with things that could not talk back. Their once articulate speech devolved into garbled grunts and aggressive gibberish. Their self reduced to a shell of their former self, their ethereal body twisted and turned into something that better resembled their new, broken mind." "Rumors of a distant, long since vacant corner of the astral realm reached one particular intrepid explorer. He endured the tedious journey through increasingly older and more broken transportation channels, proof of just how long ago that corner had been reduced to a ghost town. Arriving at a deserted lobby, the explorer made their way across the network-like world, feeling that odd sense of sadness one feels for things and places that one knows once were lively and populated, but now aren't and never will be again." "They heard the noise of the portal doors buzzing and whirling. They saw a humanoid figure step out of the doors, checking his surroundings. Eons ago, they would've cried tears of joy and begged for any kind of conversation, but now? Their serpentine body quivered in a mixture of fear and a burning feeling that their animalistic mind could not comprehend. As they roared and lunged at the explorer, something in their brain told them to scream words that they no longer understood."

[@Sorain1]

My own take on that whole 'abandoned game world' has always been the thought of NPC's intelligent enough to make them questionably sapient, _maybe_ aware. And the game is now nearly empty. So there are huge swathes of the world where the NPC's simply get by, most not even wondering if the outsiders will ever come again. Now imagine that world's version of Josh Strife Hayes coming for his usual 'Worst MMO Ever?' visit.

[@ZorotheGallade]

The story at the end was chilling. Imagine being isekai'd to a world everyone else left long ago.

[@PugsleyThePear]

Yeah that was incredible. I usually have these videos on in the background while I do other stuff but the story made me put down what I was working on and fully focus on the story.

[@sorrenblitz805]

That actually sounds pretty cool. Having a whole world to myself.

[@sufangkong771]

@@sorrenblitz805 Wouldn't being all alone in a world by yourself be lonely, if not even scary? It's one thing to be by yourself willingly, but if you are all that is to a plane of existence, what does that become of anyone?

[@sorrenblitz805]

@@sufangkong771 really doesn't seem too different than how my life has been anyway. I don't have a very good opinion of humanity I'd sell earth out to alien conquerors in a heartbeat.

[@sufangkong771]

@@sorrenblitz805 Honestly, I can agree to that.

[@Paratroopersteark]

"all mmo players are natural cleptomaniacs..." that is so true, specially when inventory is full and i have to drop something to take something else, that is a feeling i do not like.

[@GodOfPlague]

Especially when you play a stable of sticky pawed khajiit 😀

[@AK3601]

Consuming health & magic potions to make room for something that is either trash or treasure.

[@andromidius]

"Hmmm, a magic item worth 10 gold. But I also have this rotten bear pelt that's worth a copper. Which do I choose?" Logically, this is an easy choice. In reality you'll be there for 5 minutes trying to figure out how to fit more into your bags then you're capable of. And you'll run into this exact issue again in about 30 seconds.

[@PoisonedAl]

@@andromidius The next NPC you meet: "Hey! Get me 20 rotten bear pelts and I'll give you this thing you need!"

[@nakmail]

I sing a little song to myself; I’m coming in your house, And stealing all your things, And even though you here, You won’t say anything… Games been training us to pick up all the things for all the time. I can remember playing snake 40 odd years ago…

[@ajdinpatkovic8539]

"I can lucid dream in real life..." I love these little bits of Strife lore we get every now and again, like the fact he learned leatherworking just to make the Firefly belt.

[@Mario583a]

If only LSD: Dream Simulator was an MMO..............

[@azzie671]

@@Mario583a Fun fact: someone once made a fanmade PC version. It was infinitely more entertaining than Underlight.

[@blackjacka.5097]

@@azzie671 Really?

[@Broockle]

He also made an Uncharted Bandolier

[@tiffyfemboy]

I don't believe on it, but ok.

[@kiltedcajun5331]

Your short story legit had me gripped til the end. More more more

[@maxlongtin5444]

Yeah it was genuinely impressive

[@Pichi-lv6yx]

i mean...technically you have inifinites amount of that story, as it was written to loop over and over a very chilling story

[@idiom2805]

His many years as a dungeon master and player has polished his vocabulary, and descriptive skills as a story crafter.

[@eggsrael4889]

@@idiom2805 and his history with theater and his degree

[@Flaimbot]

the story reminded me of what dementia must feel like

[@MrGencyExit64]

I was a developer on this game in the original launch timeframe. It's baffling to me why the game is even being kept alive now. It physically cannot work without an active playerbase, you will not be able to advance past level 9. This is depressing to see, and I wish they would pull this thing off of life support, it deserves better.

[@TheRandomYoYo]

Or make it so that when players no longer log in for after 5 years their last location drops a grave with everything they have. All their attributes such a teacher, master, their skills all as items you can consume and learn. Stuff you already have you cannot pick up and it stays in the grave for someone else. That basically ensures that even if a group of friends who want to do a bit of roleplay, will be able to join and get what they need, and start a new story. And when they leave their stuff will be available as well.

[@Davinhomx]

A question I have is: if you needed a higher ranked player to level up. Then how exactly did this game start?. As at the start everyone should have had the same level right. So who teached who?. What was there first, the egg or the chicken?

[@TheSquareOnes]

@@Davinhomx The egg came first and it came out of something that was almost a chicken but not quite. With that in mind I'd assume a similar situation here, they probably bent the rules at the start of the game to have a first wave of players that was able to promote others without needing that origin themselves.

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

My theory is that it is funded by a forgotten bank account and the servers haven't crashed in a decade or that it is a botnet payload.

[@aura6958]

I'm surprised too

[@RQS321]

The short RP story at the end was really good. I wish there were more moments like that. It was really fascinating to watch you get into the immersive story.

[@j.t.harrison3203]

After 20+ years of playing this game I can tell you there were some very amazing and creative personalities that also played this game. It was a pleasure to share a virtual space with them, to learn from them, to watch them ply their craft or Heroism, villainy and the like. There still are players (REAL people) out there and they are amazing to meet and interact with, if only the rest of you would stop spam killing us, jumping around like moon astronauts, constantly swearing and acting like children. I don't mean to sound like I'm accusing you RQS, just spouting off and agreeing with you about Josh's RP story. Hope to meet you somewhere out there on that vast internet realm.

[@harfharfful]

I've always felt that video games are essentially "automated dungeon masters", there to ensure you're having fun. This is like showing up to a real life game of D&D, only to be sitting there alone at the table, not even a DM for company.

[@KyouTGD]

And this game is even worse than that, because you can't just set your own rules to play by yourself. You can't just be your own DM because you can't level up alone.

[@HierophanticRose]

@@KyouTGD Yea its literally like DM texting you "Ill be there in 10 mins" and never showing up to the session

[@metagen77]

It's nothing like replacing a DM and it's not supposed to, the computer keeps track of your stats, does your rolling and everything grindy.

[@aethon0563]

@@metagen77 kinda missed the point, there.

[@metagen77]

@@aethon0563 Not at all, the point is the analogy is flawed on every level. JSH viewers just lack iq to see it

[@Koden]

Josh needs to do a side gig in reading audiobooks. Man if this KZbin thing doesn't work out he's got a voice for it. No joke.

[@IamaPERSON]

He really does, but what audio books would be the best ones for him to read?

[@Koden]

@@IamaPERSON fantasy adventure. I mean, that's basically what MMOs are aren't they?

[@NaoyaYami]

He already wrote and narrated his own Runescape story (I think it was Runescape).

[@IamaPERSON]

@Michael Place true

[@IamaPERSON]

@@Koden good point, especially if it’s a “choose your own adventure” book

[@quarantinethis8981]

Id love to see a video by Josh explaining how to get backing, cos most of these awful games have or did have backers, the games weren't crowd funded.

[@jdack]

Crowd funding wasn't even a thing in 1998. If you had a 3D engine, you could get funding. It was new and exciting back then. Suits didn't know anything they just wanted to get in on the 3D hype.

[@brainmatter75]

I was a GM for Underlight many years ago (back when Lyra Studios ran it). It was one of the first online games I had played that was mostly player driven. As GMs we would interact with the player base to do RP events and it was a lot of fun. This game was at its peak 20-ish years ago, there was a monthly subscription back then. Unfortunately the world has changed quite a bit in 20 years, Underlight has barely changed. Its great for the nostalgia though!

[@John-ty6vw]

Ahh, the mystical Lyrans. I played this game for an insane amount of years and seeing/talking to a Lyran was always one of the highlights.

[@aarons6935]

No you weren't

[@LoveHeartGonzy]

@@aarons6935Want an award for your repetitive "no you weren’t" messages? Sure are spending your time well :)

[@qaulwart]

Josh, that story just made me want to listen to a complete audio book written and read by you. Seriously. You should consider that as a long-term side project in case you enjoy doing that.

[@AdamL2326]

I always love the "behold... combat" moments in these videos there's should be a compilation of those moments.

[@Yuritau]

I played this game from 1999 on, for way too many years, hehe. When it had a solid playerbase and players could be found in game at all hours, it was an amazing experience if you liked the RP side of things. Over the years, however, the playerbase has dwindled. Even before the original developers shut down the game, a lot of players were deep into on again/off again cycles, only coming back when some major story event or player faction war was going on. Then a group of fans licensed the game from the developers and created their own server to resurrect it, and it was lively again, for a time. The current server is operated by yet another fan group and incorporates characters from both prior servers. The game itself, the code, the client, the server, is so cumbersome to change in meaningful ways that a lot of the problems mentioned here are not possible to fix in practicality. It would be easier to remake the game completely in a modern game engine, but that would bring so much change that the game would barely be recognizable as a remake, heh. There is still a (small) playerbase, but it is largely only present during peak hours (afternoon/evening PST). Steam metrics wont show everyone because you can also download the client directly from the game's website. That said, it is definitely a vague shadow of the playerbase it once had, and that certainly affects how much interaction there is to be had, especially if you play outside the peak hours. As for the intense reliance on other players for advancement via the teaching system, that is simultaneously cool and not, imho. As long as you can play at a time of day that lines up with the regular play hours of teacher players, and you get along with them, it can be a really engaging way to be mentored into the higher levels and skills of the game. But if your play time or character personality doesn't line up with an appropriate teacher, then you're kinda SOL. And then there's quests that teachers give you earn advancement.. There is a very draconian rule system to govern these quests, and teachers can have their entire ability to teach (or even play) taken away if they go against the rules. So you end up with a teaching system that requires quite a lot of legwork and time from players to earn advancement. And if you dare to lament how long it takes or how much inane busywork it takes (it gets SERIOUSLY repetitive, despite purporting to be a system of always bespoke quests, and the higher level you get, the more rigidly formulaic the quests get), you get shamed for wanting advancement without "earning it". I still log in and say hi to folks every few months, because nostalgia is a thing (and the game really did USED to be amazing), but that's about it.

[@ccelizic]

I spent so much time in that in the day. This was before I had 3d accelerated graphics. So the graphics in this were nice for the time. Ton of intrigue and stuff. Melee combat was silly in that the best way to make it work was to basically abuse the way the movement prediction worked. Hit detection was client side and by using strafing curving motions juuuust right you could pretty much throw projections of yourself off every which way that made it hard to evade the hit. The social aspect worked nice when there was a lot of players. Also at the top of each heirarchy were people on payroll for Lyra Studios who handed out the high grade powerful stuff like teacher halos and stuff. They were good in having a number of people with opinions and viewpoints rather adversarial to each other which drove a rather adversarial cloak and dagger atmosphere. Outright war was uncommon because of how draining to resources and a hassle it was. Instead it was a lot of simmering cold war posturing. So yeah, you were kind of beholden to higher level players but at least there was a lot of variety of groups playing different roles that you could find the right sort of punks to latch on to. There were the militant warriors convinced they were saving the souls of the corrupted. There were the free thinking militants who felt the other militants were going to force their mindset on everyone. And then there were the pacifists who felt everyone was molesting the danger noodles too much. A lot of that starting inventory you had wasn't in the original game, including those maps. By the way, hit detection for attacks is entirely client side, if your game client were to experience lag it would have an awful hard time being hit and could possibly somehow get to the portals on the other side of the room unmolested.... unless some gatekeeper slapped their squid (ward) on it.

[@DaBonkinator]

Honestly this video makes me sad. Never played this game, and I'm not a huge RP fan, but I feel like that's because I haven't had a proper go at it. Just like with DnD, I wish I could try it out so bad but got no friends for it. I wish this game had a more active playerbase because, at least on paper, it seems very interesting. I still might try it out later today but I don't even know if I'll be able to do much of anything.

[@narsos6043]

Wow I didnt know they re-released this on steam. I thought it was dead and gone lol. Yeah I played for many years in the awhile. Was even a officer in one of the houses and involved with a lot of events when it was active. The GMs were very in control of everything. They didnt mention that you lost exp if you were killed and other players could chain kill you till you lost everything. This game got me my first experience with propaganda. People made up a narrative and could totally destroy what other peoples worked years building if other people believed it. Had some good role playing and some really bad. And a LOT of sexting that sometimes led to real life hookups.

[@MrGencyExit64]

I was part of Lyra Studios in the 2000s when we were trying to literally remake the game. Reclamation unfortunately never released. I agree with you on the client, its code sucks and is a mix of DirectDraw, x86 ASM and Win32 windows that can't run at any resolution other than the two the client offers... but we actually licensed the server code to other projects and it was salvageable, probably the only thing we tried to reuse :)

[@ccelizic]

@@MrGencyExit64 I remember looking forward to reclamation.

[@MultiSonicRules]

The story was genuinely gripping. It was wonderful, it was slightly surreal, it was tragic, and yet so heartfelt. I wish it had an ending, but it defeats the point of such a story.

[@Tholomaios]

I love Underlight for having made Josh write that horror story.

[@Oktokolo]

He didn't write it. He remembered it.

[@The1Helleri]

Ghost town games like this are surprisingly abundant. What's more surprising is the ability to actually visit them. You'd think with so few or no continuous players that more of these would have shut down years ago. A couple of them that people can visit if they want that surreal experience of trekking through an environment that's been dead for years but have the lights kept on probably out of nostalgia or some pipe dream of reviving them are "Myst Online: Uru Live" and "Active Worlds".

[@jotarokujo3603]

Active Worlds must be a hilariously ironic name these days.

[@genesisangel5657]

Your short story made me think of a story told from the perspective of a ghost who died, is unaware that he is dead, and is reliving his death over and over. Sort of fitting considering the game you are reviewing.

[@Zebulization]

Though the moments after the fall are interesting. Shiny black shoes, not soaked converse. Thinking he might have had a meet and greet, like an established actor. Perhaps not a ghost? Perhaps an old retired actor wandering around an old theater during an episode of dementia?

[@shinami3758]

If I'm not mistaken, that's actually semi-similar to the background story for one of the players; someone who died in their world while dreaming in the game world.

[@sorrenblitz805]

This is totally unrelated but your comment brought to mind a short film I saw on Alter about a girl narrowly avoiding hitting a ghost girl, being chased out of her car and into the woods by that ghost girl only to end up back at her car realizing the ghost girl looks identical to her, because it's really a loop of her reliving the night she got chucked out of her windshield and died in a car accident.

[@matthewrease2376]

Sad to see these strange relics abandoned. I'd love to see what this game looked like in its prime.

[@Yuritau]

I was there for much of it's prime, and it's hard to explain in a way that people today would believe, but it was kinda glorious. Looking at the graphics that haven't meaningfully changed in over 20 years, it's hard to describe just how vivid and alive the game was when the collaboration of imaginations was in the many hundreds, and not the low dozens.

[@MaximumCarter]

I agree, I would have definitely been interested in this had I known it existed then.

[@randomguy4781]

you are indeed it is sad. but id have loved to seen that too. do the people who originally played this, play other mmos now or have moved on from gaming completely?

[@Yuritau]

@@randomguy4781 some of both.

[@StainlessHelena]

That short story was phenomenal! I wouldn't mind more like it featured on one of your channel, if there's still room in your schedule.

[@dizzyheads]

The fact that I realised it loops at the end is freaky

[@seancrane278]

Holy hell.....that story had me in chills and almost in tears at the end.... What do we have to do to get you narrating more stories?!?

[@hazukichanx408]

This one felt like archaeology. Interesting, kind of sad, and confusing in places... and, perhaps, some lessons to be taken from the good and bad ideas, the bold moves and unfortunate mistakes of the past.

[@EskChan19]

I think the most important lesson to learn here is that player driven games are never ment to last and you always have to make them knowing that. You CAN make these games and during their prime they will be unrivaled. But you always have to keep in mind that this won't last. And the crash will be harder than other games. Because once the crash starts it will be a downward spiral. Things like WOW even if people leave, the remaining players can still have fun doing quests and stuff. Maybe no raids or party stuff, but the "singleplayer" still works. But for a game like this it will always end in a downward spiral, where players will leave, which leads to no content being made by players, which leads to players leaving because there's no content, which leads to no content being generated by players, which leads to more players leaving. Once that sets in your game is done and the fun is over. And that's ok, you had something great going for a while, but all good things have to end some time. And it's way past the time this game should have ended.

[@coorbin]

@@EskChan19 That may be true, but we still have a community -- they just don't login at the times that a content creator from the UK would tend to be awake. They largely work on the US Pacific timezone and login during that timezone's prime time. The game has a very niche community, to the point that the game is completely depopulated for at least 16 out of every 24 hours. It's kept alive because of the activity during the remaining 8.

[@VenomGamingCenter]

​@@coorbinI hope it dies and shuts down for good.

[@Hotshot2k4]

Suggesting that Pokemon red/blue was a game focused on incredible character-driven narrative and having a deep story is very generous of you.

[@wiseferret4745]

It does have a deep story. Red is essentially a villain who goes around bullying people. He stole Grey's family, killed his Raticate, ran into him at the pokemon graveyard right after he buried his Raticate, and beat his ass again. He walks up to a stranger and they say something like "it sure is a beautiful day today! I'm going to do some gardening!" Next thing they know you're one-shotting their Pidgey. After facing no real challenges you set out to destroy the dreams of Pokemon trainers. You show them that tolerance and training are for pussies and kick their asses too. You're not giving the game enough credit. Red is a total dick and I love it.

[@exaltx9406]

@@wiseferret4745 lol but who tf is grey?

[@wiseferret4745]

@@exaltx9406 Gary. Edit: I fucked up. I meant Blue, not Grey. I haven't played a Pokemon game in over 15 years. Forgive me. I should also add that Blue becomes champion first, and Red shows up 5 minutes later to crush his dreams again.

[@exaltx9406]

@@wiseferret4745 no worries man :)

[@KaoKacique]

For the time? It kinda was

[@10zeldafan]

I just realized that the player you were trying to whisper is a pmare the enemy you fought several times had the same name as the player

[@MegamanXfan21xx]

I hope they're getting their money's worth of the premium "play as enemy" feature.

[@defaulted9485]

I seriously thought Emphant was the name of the enemy. But what a plot twist, the enemy is a MARE whose name is Emphant. Not helping that the chat log is so generic and devoid of intellect that we does not consider it a player.

[@SwissArmyCheese]

@@defaulted9485 No, it's not. I played this game back in the day, the Emphants are just AI. They're the weakest AI and they're all over the place. The Pmare's are much different, they look like giant grim reapers. There were no other players in this video.

[@Sorrowdusk]

@@SwissArmyCheese Oh wow thanks for the insight. I kinda hoped Pmares could have different appearances, maybe customization to the kind of Monster you could be

[@SwissArmyCheese]

@@Sorrowdusk No problem. A lot of them do! The most powerful one's look like Grim Reapers. I can't remember what the other one's look like, to be honest. But they're very weird. There's even one that's meant to be a dreamer (human)/Pmare hybrid. They're not all meant to be evil or enemies either, which is why all the AI simulate talking. It's to give the idea this is a species you COULD communicate with. And since the game is meant to be roleplayed they won't have messages like "You can't talk to AI", because it's meant to be immersive. The players come up with terms and big explanations that would be synonymous with typical gamer terms.

[@whattheheck8979]

As scuffed as the game is, I absolutely love the look of the areas within the game, something about them looks beautiful.

[@zeriel9148]

There's something about that era of early 3D that really has its own unique charm, especially (maybe only?) in first person.

[@sorrenblitz805]

Good 2.5D environments can look downright amazing when done by a good artist and mapped by a good level designer.

[@SpydersByte]

@@sorrenblitz805 can they? I think that's highly subjective. I started playing games in the 2.5d era, Doom and Duke Nukem and like, and even back then I thought they were ugly as piss. Blocky pixellated squares everywhere, add in some movement and it literally makes me feel sick, even though I dont suffer with motion sickness or anything irl. I dont understand how anyone finds "beauty" in old 2.5d games, they all look terrible to me.

[@yuurina5092]

@@SpydersByte "can look downright amazing" "Can look donwright amazing "CAN" No one is here saying it ISNT subjective

[@TheJawsman]

There was a recent patch done in July of this year. It added a new art and revamped the inside. There's some even cooler areas around.

[@JakalairVG]

It is kind of sad that some of the older games look abandoned like this. I feel this sense of loss every time I return to Ultima Online. The people are a little fewer, the towns a little smaller, and the world just a little bit harsher. My head canon is that in the world of Ultima Online we lost. Humanity is slowly failing, the monsters are taking over, and even though we keep finding new ways to combat the things in the dark there just aren't enough of us to hold it back.

[@Nitidus]

Some UO channel I discovered the other day said that the game experienced significant growth in player numbers in the last year. I thought about getting into it but didn't know how and where to start. Couldn't find any real, recent tutorial on KZbin. Only like 6-10 minute intros. And I'm not able to yet again get into a game where I have to read wiki articles for 20 hours before even understanding the basics .____.

[@JakalairVG]

@@Nitidus Yeah, it is a problem that some of these games came out when guide books were still a thing. Making a tutorial for UO would be tedious and I guess that's why no one does it. Imagine an hour long video explaining how to make and cook pizzas.

[@j.t.harrison3203]

@@JakalairVG LOL I'd rather not.

[@InsaneentertainmentNet]

I am one of the original dreamers in this game back in 1997. I met me wife in the game so long ago. Best game ever! You had to be there! I was a Master Teacher and Ruler within The Protectors of Radiance. The game when populated back in the 1990s was great. There was no wiki, we wrote the histories and game lore. Your quests were usually roleplaying ones, or writing histories.

[@Happyjethappy]

:( I was born too late

[@j.t.harrison3203]

Dreamer of Light here. Former Ruler, Teacher , Gate Keeper. I've been hearing some of us have passed away these last few years. Truly, the game is dying because WE were the game.

[@Happyjethappy]

@@j.t.harrison3203 I logged on with a friend and wondered for 2 hours, I enjoy it's ethereal dream feeling and can see something great, but with a 3 player large playerbase where 2 of them are complete newcomers and the other one spends all day in the primordial breach (and I don't know how to even get there) it's not ... working

[@InsaneentertainmentNet]

@@j.t.harrison3203 I was Raven Lunatic OoSM Ruler, then Inner Circle and then PoR Ruler, Master Gatekeeper Teacher. Wondering who your avatar was? Also, who have we lost? I came back to the game for a week last year, only to leave because that game was us and without a lot of us in it, the game is a ghost land that can't be played.

[@j.t.harrison3203]

@@InsaneentertainmentNet cyborg512

[@GitraSilvermane]

Something I did notice in the vid, at 11:01 and 22:01, in the chat you see Emphant whispers and Emphant Shouts. That was the name of the other player but also the monsters. Maybe they were a player who payed to play as a monster? Which would explain why you couldn't talk to them or find them.

[@Leonadeyt]

Wait that's kinda scary. Someone is still in there. Is his soul trapped? ?

[@thepinkythepink]

I wondered the same thing! Especially after he talked about how players can be monsters too, I thought surely he was about to talk about the monster sharing the player name...

[@j.t.harrison3203]

No, Emphant is the name of the NPC "monsters" or nightmares. If you play as a mare, you have to make up a name that is not the same as a NPC mare.

[@Nomanzo]

The best thing about this game is that it got you to tell us that story at the end. I rate the story: “this was amazing please tell us more short stories” out of 10.

[@youtube-kit9450]

God, this game's like the epitome. Like, the argument ad absurdum I'd do for fun on why I can't stand multiplayer forced content and so much prefer singleplayer games. Like, it highlights pretty much everything that can go wrong with multiplayer focus going wrong.

[@crypticcorvid]

@@ILubBLOfficial Yeah, an MMO without any other players is like driving a car without wheels or an engine. It's literally the core aspect being removed and being surprised it doesn't work.

[@hugocardoso1488]

Hey, it´s the guy from the Josh Strife Says shorts, nice dude. Joking ahah i love your content man

[@demoneyesrakka]

Well, this is my hands down favorite video so far. Beautifully done. Just from your description of things makes me say "man, that sounds like it'd be really cool with a bunch of like minded people." When in reality, it was an aol chat room with a different interface. Really loved the story at the end too, definitely tied everything together. Keep up the outstanding work.

[@azzie671]

I played this game back in high school (class of 2019). I saw this game on Steam and decided, "Why the hell not?'. For a while, it was beautiful. I used to be a regular roleplayer on the internet, so this game was like a haven for me and my outlandish ideas. There were parties, events, I could even celebrate my IRL birthday with the other dreamers. I remember well the holiday season of 2018, when I went to a holiday ball in the very same ballroom featured in this video (it was very lively then). I once went to a bar in-game, and the bartender refused to give me alcohol because my character was underage (me and my character are/were the same age). I remember there was a guy who's character would communicate via drawings which would be described in chat. I had fun, until one day.... There was a conflict going on at the time in-game (something about a player sitting upon an evil chair, not knowing it was actually bad). Me and the other dreamers were in the library either taking the side of the defending dreamer, or of her accusers. It was a really stressful event, I felt like nobody was truly listening to my input. I even cried IRL, shit was intense. After that, coming back to the game wasn't exactly the same for me. I logged on less and less, until I just quit. The Underlight community had created wonderful stories to tell, but with a system where each dreamer had stories to tell that weren't limited by such things as NPC's, it set up some situations where the roleplay got too real. It's hard for some people to detach themselves from an RPG when all non-hostile NPC's are real people with their own motives. I will always look back upon this game with nostalgia, but I'm glad I left for good. Thank you Josh Strife Hayes for making this video, it desperately needed to be made. Everything you've said in this video I 100% agree with. Watching made me feel bittersweet, but I'm glad I did. If anyone reading this decides to play this game and happens to find some fellow dreamers, ask about Razzle Berry the demon girl, whose obsession with spoons was only dwarfed by her love for her pet Rabbit (its name was Ladle).

[@Stribog1337]

lol

[@Otakumanu]

I'm surprised the game was alive only 3 years ago. This is the kind of thing that looks like it died over a decade ago.

[@icatian]

@@Otakumanu it was dead, then like a lot of old mmo the steam release breathed a bit of extra life into it

[@blackjacka.5097]

@@FlameHidden Deal with it

[@yurigagarine6998]

@@FlameHidden my thoughts exactly lol.

[@MoonAndMidnight]

I think I had more fun roleplaying with my sister on grandpa's trampoline. On another note, could you look into Dofus some time? It's an old French MMORPG that still has an active community, including international players. There's both a retro and a 2.0 version online. I think you might like the combat system

[@Sinyao]

I very much enjoyed the shows, even if the board games weren't too my liking.

[@HeromanVII]

Man, Audible is sleeping on you as a talented narrator, bro. Thank you for this video on a curious game again. This series is quite fun.

[@shelter42Ayre]

As a tourist through your channel I found this series, and by extension this video. That story, was haunting, and your delivery gave me chills.

[@oldmangames6593]

I’ve been binging these for quite some time. He doesn’t just say “that game is bad”. He shows why a game is good or bad. Then leaves it up to the viewer to determine whether or not they can live with the bugs. I love it man.

[@petrberanek9128]

Yes, having a game based on player-made content and it being community driven is in itself pretty disastrous recipe. In order for the game to be fun, you would need a critical player mass to attract and keep other players in. Without enough players, you won't atract any new. You need enough players who want to invest time and energy to create the content for other players. They are not paid for providing the content and even if there are some, they can't do it forever and when they eventualy leave, there will be nothing maintaining their content. The more players per content-creator there are, the more chore it will be for them and the faster they will burn out. Better to have NPCs handling the same quest hundred times a day, than real person. At least to me, it seems like a naive or lazy approach to think, players wan't to make content for others. Either they truly believe that there is enough people who will invest their energy to entertain others and keep the game alive or they just does not want to invest time and money into creating content, hoping players will do it for them. In both cases it is sad, but for different reasons. Last of such instances of "players will do the content for us" is Starbase. Interesting ship building and mechanics in vast open world, yet mostly empty with community dropping from 10k players to 200 over last 5 months. Nothing to do in-game, but interesting to study what the developers plan to do with it to keep it from dying.

[@Thanatos2k]

You have to have the content able to be run without the content creator "there" - like a content mod doesn't disappear from the world when the person who made it stops logging on. They absolutely did not think anything through with this game.

[@planescaped]

I have a feeling this game was made for exactly 1 person...

[@Don-ds3dy]

Damn dude write a book 🤓

[@SwissArmyCheese]

You are correct, but speaking as someone who has played this game extensively, the players don't create the content. You CAN, and you can focus on your own in-game story if you want. But there is absolutely a much bigger story playing out in the entire "City". It functions similarly to a DnD game, where there are DM's or in this case they're called GM's. They're basically the team in control of the direction of the game, and they all play what would be the NPC's that direct the story and lead the world. So there isn't a case of a team hoping the players create the content for them, it has more to do with people just moving on and not wanting to interact with the direction the story is now going. A lot of long time players have passed away as well, and so many other people have lost momentum to return.

[@Happyjethappy]

Why do people think games are meant to last forever? 2 years of amazing co-op role playing beats 10 years of mediocre shit. Do I still play AvP? nope. Predator mode with 4 friends was still some of the best gaming I ever did

[@jaykay9836]

This was my first. i liked it. Best part was you couldnt acually "die" you just become a "soul" thing, a but certain discipline had a "soul strike" move that could kill you, killing your "soul". I believe I chose insight for my discipline and could get a move to block portals from being activated.

[@Spaloooshify]

That's willpower.

[@arcavahaethon2669]

this all sounds like a really complex and creative idea that should have just been an RP guild in another game

[@six2make4]

A lot of people clown on RP guilds but I remember back in WoW before the first exodus in BFA I was in a small guild where the guild leader had basically made a very simplified DnD system, where you rolled for hits and depending on char gen got plus and minus to health, mana and had special skills, then he would make various encounters 2 or 3 times a month. Was honestly a great time to spend an evening, looked for something similar in FF but there was nothing so now I'm just doing dungeons with some friends.

[@-Keith-]

Neverwinter Nights was the best game ever made for RP, hands down. Built in multiplayer to a Gamespy server list, the game came with a toolkit for building your own custom modules/scripting/rules, and many servers had active communities with multiple DMs online who could award bonus XP/stats for roleplay and start impromptu quests.

[@Biouke]

@@six2make4 "the first exodus in BFA" oh, you innocent young people, so cute :p First exodus was between Sunwell Plateau aand LK pre-launch event, game was a desert, only people farming comps and raiding were left, cities empty most of the time. Launching TBC while people were still gearing for Naxx then the convoluted attunement system for TBC raids had most small guilds disband from internal dramas and player fatigue. Quel'Danas isle going from an overcrowded nightmare to get-lucky-to-meet-another-player-at-rush-hour in 4 weeks.

[@six2make4]

@@Biouke Should probably have made it clear that I've been playing on and off since BC but there were 2 big "exoduses" in BFA. Also in my late 20'ies but hey, forever young 'n all that eh?

[@Biouke]

@@six2make4 "there were 2 big "exoduses" in BFA" I had a hunch that's what you were meaning, but I had to commit to my joke. Sorry :p And forever young indeed, 35y old stupid teenager can confirm XD

[@minilabyrinth]

The short story narration was very very good. I unironically hope you do more of that thing

[@zappodude7591]

Every multiplayer game is a "player driven" "emergent gameplay experience". Good ones actually give players something to work with.

[@MsMoonDragoon]

This. I wouldn't even know what to do with this. The game doesn't even explain a single bit of lore to bounce off of. Yeah you're roleplaying. But *WHAT* are you role-playing?

[@paulmahoney7619]

@@MsMoonDragoon This game is supposed to be about dreamers in a dream world, so that brings me to my most narratively coherent dream, which was about humans kidnapped from Earth during a war with aliens being modified into super-soldiers for the aliens' other wars trying to get home. Don't think that's what they're looking for.

[@NaoyaYami]

"After you return to where you died, you can pick up your own head". This reminded me of when I played Wurm Online with my friend. I went to recover my own body after dying, and used it as emergency food. I was even storing it under my own bed. I'm glad my friend never asked me where did I farm that meat (I was the cook).

[@norricdaoc8746]

God that was sad. Brought me back to when I took a break from DAoC, when I came back after a few months I said my usual "Lo all" in guild chat.. complete silence. Everyone had left, it was a dead guild now. Luckily the guildmaster had made arrangements with a very large and friendly guild to take in any stragglers. Damn good man there, my new guild was the best thing to ever happen to me. Some of my happiest memories were with that guild.

[@mill_ania]

That one review calling the game "Fallout 76 but worse and older" is honestly apt in talking about the game as, well, a game. With 76 begrudgingly add NPCs and some other features that help the game "run" without a highly active community (quality notwhistanding, still), somewhat telling that in a way even RP-focused MMOs need a way to handle players by itself, not merely demanding the community to prop it up for them.

[@Septimus_ii]

The other option is to make an RP game on the understanding that when it dies it'll happen suddenly, rapidly and irreversibly

[@seanb4380]

I feel the same kind of isolation and dread watching you explore this old empty game that I get when I watch The Shining, that ball room especially. This game would make an interesting psychological horror game.

[@jarnMod]

This is so sad. I'm in such a warm welcome and fun community right now and to see an empty shell of such a game is heart wrenchingly sad. It's scary. It feels like a shellfish looking at an empty shell. What they see is not a shell, but the dreadful emptiness of death, the promise of no-more, the inevitable end of all joy, the last parting of friends.

[@rednassie1101]

This looks like a creepypasta game

[@TRECTADACTYL]

this reminds me of an mmo i played briefly as a child, because i got it for my birthday. something ancient greek themed and it played like wow from what i remember. i seem to remember it actually being relatively competent, from what little i saw of it. but it had 0 players. an actual ghost town. vast gamescapes, devoid of life. typing into the chatbox was like calling out into the void. id pay money to find it again, because its such a vague and strange memory. but ever since then, the idea of abandonware, and especially ghost town mmos, has interested me.

[@boooster101]

Roma Victor ?

[@TRECTADACTYL]

@@boooster101 no, i shouldve been more specific. by ancient greek, i meant greek mythology.

[@boooster101]

@@TRECTADACTYL Yeah, sorry, no MMO comes to mind. Age of Mythology and Titan Quest pop into my head but those are certainly not it. EDIT: After a bit of searching ... maybe you meant Mytheon?

[@TRECTADACTYL]

@@boooster101 nope, it definitely wasnt an isometric mmo. it played somewhat like wow. thanks for taking a crack at it, though.

[@RagerQueen]

Was it GodsWar Online? Just a guess. It looks isometric but I swear you could zoom in behind your character as well.

[@sgtxstayxgrind5854]

*is interacting with a "mob" named Emphant, sees a player online named Emphant and doesnt put 2 and 2 together* You literally where fighting the ONLY other player online and apparently they pay to be a monster. @ 11:20 you can see they whisper you.

[@AspenBrightsoul]

Imagine setting on your PC for 2 years waiting for someone to show up and when they do you just kill them.

[@EskilBagge]

they have a another fight later add around 20:30

[@naota3k]

And he beat them in combat, LOL!

[@Spaghettiest]

@@AspenBrightsoul gigachad energy

[@CatsLeftEar]

This is a mob with some scripted "noises"

[@whanethewhip]

Game: "What is your goal?" Me: "To not die by the hands of a winged noodle". One year later, the epic MMO called Asheron's Call released. It also had guides but your progress didn't rely upon them.

[@j.t.harrison3203]

I got more and more into Asheron's Call, eventually spending more time there than in Underlight. I was a allegiance leader in AC, had approximately 400 followers. Was a fun time. I still play AC occasionally on Reefcull emulator. Another MMO that is OLD!

[@Khaisz.]

16:00 That other player "Emphant", was actually just an enemy. The flying snakes are called "Emphant".

[@Mripoststupidstuff]

This looks a lot like a game I played back in the 90's by Prince (The Artist Formally Known As) It was a walk through of his imaginary house where you had to solve door puzzles to progress. Once you made it to the end there was a vault. Inside the vault there were some Prince tracks. Probably rare unreleased tracks or something. Not sure, I wasn't a fan, so it was kinda anticlimactic.

[@dustinburns4550]

Purple ☔ Rain , purrrrrrple raiiin

[@lilwyvern4]

Prince Interactive? Sounds like the sort of dumb thing I'd get a kick out of messing with once or twice. I love those old virtual spaces things.

[@Mripoststupidstuff]

@@lilwyvern4 I remember it being pretty good for the time, about Windows 95, 98 era game. I really should try and find it, and do a play through.

[@j.t.harrison3203]

@@Mripoststupidstuff Have fun. I doubt there are Teachers to be found unless you play at prime time and even then maybe only on weekends.

[@dairallan]

This really does looks very similar to Meridian59 in terms of the graphics and gameplay. But it came out 2 years after M59 at a time that UO was already out and Everquest was about to launch. And as said in teh review, its still way more basic in terms of the depth of the game despite the visual similarities. So not surprised it crashed and burned and no-one remembers it. Oh M59, what a game and what a success you could have been without the moronic inclusion of unrestricted world PvP.

[@kallmannkallmann]

Hardly the only issue. Sure for its time it was great but it was launched right before mmo systems started getting more advanced. It was based on the "old" rpg games and was rly basic.

[@dairallan]

@@kallmannkallmann Something like 90% of M59 players never got out of the included free month and started paying subs. And the reason was always the same. They hit 30hp and were PKed within minutes, losing every item they had. If they'd designed with just Guild vs Guild for world PvP, its easy to expect a retention well over 50%, which would have made the game a success and kept it viable.

[@Yor_gamma_ix_bae]

Wait how did the first teachers level??

[@Yor_gamma_ix_bae]

Pvp in old games was the best.

[@friedrichschwarz1547]

@@Yor_gamma_ix_bae That was my first question too (and as there is the higher level restriction, that only works as long as max level teaches are around). I suppose the developers themselves. It makes sense - why do all the work designing the content.... just do a few at the beginning to get the ball rolling and then let the community do the job.

[@Purple_Lilith]

Reminds me of the bad idea from the killed-before-release World of Darkness MMO. A vampire MMO where the only way to become a vampire is to be embraced by another player.

[@timpind.8237]

jesus christ that story at the end was good. it felt so real, dredging up memories of my own from my musical theater days. god, that was a trip. really, really good

[@Emiandradio]

God, that monolog was beautiful and chilling!

[@briannelson27]

HOLY CRAP! I played this game! it was after I quit everquest for having too much downtime. It was a fever dream of a game let me tell you.

[@blazebyte277]

I played this game just about 1 1/2 years ago just to try it out. I remember there being more people, strange. I remember people walking around and whatnot. I had no idea of the strict RP requirement, so when I was trying to talk to someone, I got a warning message from a GM or whoever they are, stating that If I didnt start to be in character action would be taken. So I started to get into character and found another person also discovering the game. Then two presumably higher level players started to teach us the basics of the game. We went through some portal and they were teaching us how to execute the combat and all that. All this while everyone was speaking as their RP character. RP isnt really my thing so I didnt stick around that long (totalled just under 3hrs). Was an interesting experience though. I definitely can see the appeal for people who enjoy heavy RP.

[@j.t.harrison3203]

I think I remember a Blaze newly awakened dreamer back then. Good to see you're still around!

[@Meanlucario]

I don't see what's wrong on judging a game base on how it is now. That's what you did with all the other MMOs like Neverwinter. No one can go back in time to experience what they were, only what it currently are.

[@NeroVingian40]

Depending on what it is that is being judged, some things just weren’t there yet during that era. For example from this video, the game doesn’t explained much of it’s combat and mechanics and whatever else, because there were manuals for this game, that players are pretty much required to read outside of the game world, that’s just how older games rolls back then. As a counter argument though, I can still say that having community-based content generated by the players themselves (another example from this video itself) is as bad as it is here, as it is now in every other game that uses it now.

[@belstar1128]

Yea its wrong to criticize the graphics and some aspects of game play but this game has been rendered unplayable because nobody plays it but you need people to progress but maybe some how the game could have a revival and then it will be just like in the 90s but that probably wont happen

[@cheallaigh]

when the game was active, you would always find people in "threshold" the first series of rooms he entered... and they would greet and teach new players about the game, but that was a long time ago.

[@AngersFiction]

@@cheallaigh Hi Ceyllynn

[@TheTopgeartony]

I was trying to rack my brain for a reason you're so good at speaking and articulating for a gaming KZbin channel and this video suddenly gives it away You're a theater kid.

[@mari_golds-bleeding-ink]

I'd pay to listen to you read/write more short stories like that, as someone else said, you have the voice for it!

[@guillermopena8412]

11:40 Statements like this really show the true face of the developers behind this game. "You won't see any auto-attack here. Standing in one place trading blows with a monster, not nearly exciting enough. In our world, you swing your sword or shoot your fireball...". Even before that review talking about the behind the scene drama, that line from the website really smells off egocentric, elitist, smugness. "auto attacks are for pussies! Our game is clearly superior, if you want to play you gotta put your big boy pants and do it yourself!". The game sounds like even in its glory days, it was an elitist gloryhole. You created a new character and in order to progress, you needed to fill someone else's butthole with confetti so that they would allow you. It reeks of the same power fantasy hierarchy that some toxic D&D groups would have, where a nerd with no power would crown himself the king and the rest of his friends are his subjects in a pathetic attempt to have some power (speaking from experience since that's what my cousin did with his D&D group. Same bullshit that drove me away from D&D). The game's concept is suited for a small dedicated community. It's honestly what I could see a group of friends make as their first videogame. But as an actual product? It does sound lazy, done with no foresight, and full of elitist mechanics. I fully agree, it does not look like a game that makes you feel welcome. It sounds like the game version of a college fraternity. I guess RP fans might have found it ideal and enjoyable in its golden age. But even if the game was still at its peak, it does not sound welcoming to new players. It sounds like a toxic environment.

[@Dryadal]

Yep. Reminds me of so many RP servers you'd find on GMOD - petty tyrants trying to feel better by bullying other players (not to forget their classic adage "rules for thee but not for me"). Even when this game only has one other player than Josh, seems like they share the name with the suspiciously strong snakemob. Heh, ready to stalk and attack a newbie player of an otherwise dead game, sums up the whole spirit of this game.

[@defaulted9485]

Do they not realize People in Real Life has Adrenaline and Fight or Flight response which kinda makes them attack or defense according to reflexes without thinking... or in layman terms, Auto Attacks? But correct to the tee. I agree that the owner of this game is too self absorbed and delusional.

[@TheTundraTerror]

Even 'for its day', it was between Ultima Online and Everquest.

[@AngersFiction]

The developers didn't write any of that stuff. The original devs are long gone, and the rights were sold to some members of the community who wanted to bring the game back from the dead. That's what you're seeing.

[@youtube-kit9450]

@@AngersFiction If anything, that's even worse. If the devs were a bunch of elitist pricks but the community wasn't, it still would work. If the community is a bunch of elitist pricks, it's bound to die immediately because new player retention will be shit and there won't be new players to replace the people driven away by the griefing.

[@Nythand]

This is a good representation of MMOs that are products of the times. What makes a good MMO changes every ten years or so. First it was being a mud, then a online rpg, then it was pvp, next was the story driven games, now its all about action combat. By there very design MMO games are not good life-time games because they are hard to advance forward into what people want in the future, so they slowly dwindle off. Yet every MMO is being designed with future proofing in mind, Which is impossible, Everything becomes obsolete at sometime. As a concept life-time games work, just not ones that require a player-base or online functionality.

[@jshtng78]

There are a number of games that have players who started on day 1 and have been playing for longer than later players' entire lifetimes as well as players who have played them for literally their entire life (mostly due to their lives being tragically short, but still). There are examples among both singleplayer games and multiplayer games. There is a good segment of the gamer population that just wants their childhood obsession to still be there for them even if the last update was more than a decade ago.

[@zeriel9148]

What I like about this era of MMO is that they are almost always passion projects where someone had a kernel of an idea they wanted to share with the world. Now every MMO is just a money trap where their only reason for creating it was to trick someone out of as much of their wallet as possible.

[@Nythand]

@@jshtng78 Games like Mario for NES is a staple of gaming and video game culture, those type of games will be played many many years from now, but a mmo like eden online, even if it has a dedicated player base of like 12 people, it will be forgotten because it has no mass appeal or has little to no impact on media. How many videos, tutorials, speedruns, memes have been made about mario. Now how many have been made about games like fiesta online, eden eternal, blade and soul. They will all be forgotten because they had no footprint on a wide scale.

[@professorhaystacks6606]

You know I thought the story at the end would end with 'it was all a dream' since that's the conceit of Underlight. Reminds me a bit of a MUD I played for awhile called Turning Point, at least at the end. When I joined it was a mix of RP and PVE, and was said to have 'always been that way'. 2 years later (I played for 1 then took a long break), it was almost all RP and had 'always been primarily an RP MUD'. Here the RP element appears baked in though.

[@KaNgUrUhBR]

Josh be putting that Drama Teacher license to use in this video.

[@jothewerewolf]

It is legitimately funny how much advertising I get for League of Angels type scam games on your videos.

[@Don-ds3dy]

At episode 55 I've finally noticed the trend of some MMOs requiring you to go through as much work to create your character/account as it would take to buy a car.

[@mikoto7693]

Good Lord, a MMO with no real story, dependant on the players themselves for role playing and adventures ingame! That’s the same trick Bethesda tried with Fallout 76! At least until Wastelanders dropped after they realised that modern MMOs needs npcs to be entertaining. I suppose I should have guessed that other games had made the mistake before Bethesda did.

[@victordavila9812]

There is not originality not even with mistakes xD

[@Szadek23]

Well, unlike F76, it seemed to have worked at least for a while. The difference is, Underlight had actually mechanics to support this type of gameplay, Fallout had nothing like that. Still, I think some NPC would be nice, at least at the start. Well, Eve Online basically does that. The further get in this game, the more player controlled it is. What I'm saying, what F76 promissed could work, but you really need to encourage that playstyle. Instead of, you knowing, saying "Fuck it, make your own fun!"

[@NecroBanana]

Bethesda wanted Fallout76 to be minecraft mixed with Fallout, but also be Destiny without NPCs

[@alexandruburtea]

Would love to one day see a review of Anarchy Online :) A game that used to be something amazing due to it's complexity, reduced to ashes with the pay to win element introduced later on. The only game I've played where being "smart" (more like knowing how to play with spreadsheets) led to some very rewarding outcomes (like a level 20 engineer using a lvl200 robot... which took around 3 months of planning and only a few days of acquiring the items needed). Outrageous high lvl equipment on low level characters were super rare to see, but it was very rewarding to achieve :)

[@jshtng78]

Eh... in even the worst of today's games spreadsheet warriors can still achieve clout by breaking the game with minimal cash investment, which is why hotfixes are so frequent.

[@1q34w]

I think that was the first time I used a wiki for a game. I also remember some jump scares: the first eremite encounter and going after a girl fixer in a room with a Medusa.

[@xaayer]

This whole game screams of kenopsia. When you describe the empty theatre, I can't help but draw similarity to what John described as "not just empty, but hyper-empty with the total population in the negative." And I feel that emptiness vicariously through this video. What was probably once a flourishing virtual world still remains running and living and yet is barren and desolate with artifacts of bygone, incomplete stories and tasks for people trust one day just stopped. The world is flash frozen waiting for a golden age that will never return.

[@j.t.harrison3203]

That's pretty much it. You nailed it. And oddly that was part of the Dream's backstory, that it was once occupied and created by dreamers that were there before us. To walk the hallowed halls of titans that came before us. yeah, we felt like ancient Greeks walking around the base of Mount Olympus. It was magical.

[@Bells_and_Whistles]

Your experience and talent for writing is spectacular! This is my favorite part of your channel, the great writing, every episode.

[@CarbideShrapnel]

That was a very pleasant well tempo'd descriptive story big kudos Josh you can definitely write very well.

[@hevoo]

If this game still had a playerbase, it is one I might play out of desperation. It doesn't seem particularly good at many things, but the way it's built seems like it would scratch an itch that most multiplayer RP doesn't, and a lot of its systems sound novel and clever on paper. But the elitism alone is a turn-off, not to mention everything else. The most troubling thought is that I could be one of those elitists had things gone differently.

[@SwissArmyCheese]

It does still have a very active playerbase. Josh is just in the EU, and they're all US and very tight knit. Which is why for the two hours he played he did not see anyone. They were more than likely asleep lol.

[@XoJessiGirlXo]

We still have a playerbase! Albeit, a small one. We just don't have that many players to be on at all hours. Prime time starts around 7PM PST.

[@Happyjethappy]

@@XoJessiGirlXo still, now? I want to try it

[@alecciarosewater7438]

To roleplay I need a well-defined setting where everyone can agree on what it is about. This game is a vague void of nothingness what is my character supposed to even talk about Maybe the player is part a group of rebels who possess psychic powers and are hiding from an evil nightmare kingdom that hunts down heretics like an inverted version of wh40k. It would be a more coherent setting then whatever this is

[@SwissArmyCheese]

There is a very defined setting, lore, and story in the game. Josh is in the EU and all the players are in the US so he just didn't interact with anyone lmao. It's not worth playing in this day and age but all that you talked about is very much present in the game.

[@alecciarosewater7438]

@Swiss Army Cheese Given what I have seen of the game I am going to take a guess and say that the "setting" is just scraps of bland, uninteresting writing. I'm also going to call your guys out as not actually being roleplayers

[@SwissArmyCheese]

@@alecciarosewater7438 Good for you. You're wrong, lmao.

[@alecciarosewater7438]

@@SwissArmyCheese How so?

[@alecciarosewater7438]

@@SwissArmyCheese If the game has lore then explain a piece of it. If the game has roleplay then tell me about a character someone else played that you found interesting. If the lore is poorly written thats fine but to take you seriously I need you to share *something*. Otherwise i'll have to assume that the playerbase deliberately withholds the lore to limit the advancement of other players

[@millrro]

I have always loved your descriptions. When you described the game and old theater stage, or sitting on a see saw by yourself, and the story at the end. Just that perfect line of reality crosses into feelings of surrealism

[@DoctorMagoo111]

That story was earnestly terrifying to listen to. Unlike Underlight, even the cycle in the end which "goes nowhere" did go somewhere - at least, in the recesses of the mind where shadowy thoughts dance.

[@christianstonecipher1547]

the login oversight may seem bad but at least it's just for a game. I used to work in a warehouse for Amazon and they had this issue for their passwords. Meaning you could set your password to whatever, but if your password was over the limit (like 20 characters or something like that I don't remember), it would let you set the password but you would be unable to enter it on their login screen as it capped the characters you could put into the password entry box on some log in screens meaning you would then have to password reset because you made your password too long.

[@raeleneosborne7801]

that issue is one of the many reasons why Web Content Accessibility Guidelines is a thing (often taught by college/uni for web dev). Such easy ways to fix it and let users know of the potential issue.

[@CEverett9979]

1st Video Premiere of the Year HYPE!!!

[@beast667]

HYPE!

[@SwissArmyCheese]

As someone who got into this game through Steam, I'm so excited you're making this. It at one point was a very intriguing game as some of the positive reviews say, but sadly it was driven to extinction and if you can't keep a congruent amount of players to show up, there is no content. A lot of the community was very toxic and gatekeepers. This video is a very fair representation of what it has become, in my opinion. If anyone has any questions about how this game functioned, when it did, I'd be happy to answer. Edit: The main assumption is that the Emphants are other players. They are not, they're just the weakest AI enemy's you encounter. Meant for farming. They're not Pmare's. They just try to give off the idea that ALL of the enemies talk so when a player controlled enemy shows up saying some weird shit it isn't that big of a transition. There were no Pmare's in this video. But the Emphants are just all over the place. There are no players. This game is just really that empty and soulless now.

[@hayatojin2886]

I only discovered your channel recently but have binged this series! Your voice is very clear and nice to listen too.

[@michaelwilson8461]

How is it , that the premise of this game is so absolutely absurd and unsustainable , but actually really intriguing. This kind of idea is usually prefaced with "Wouldn't it be cool if you could... ? "

[@Liriodelagua]

I never played an MMO, but I feel like the idea of a teacher is great, as long as the role is treated like a real life job. In fact, why isn't it a job already? It'd have to be something like a community manager, a player with admin powers (to spawn enemies, place objects in the game and other DM-like things). What drives me away from MMOs is the idea of having to kill 100 wolves to get an slightly better weapon for my character. Anyways, great story and I hope you have a good start of the year.

[@planescaped]

MMO's having basically DM's on the payroll who manipulate the game world from within definitely sounds like an idea with a lot of potential.

[@Axterix13]

This used to exist back in the early days of MMOs, to a degree. EQ's GMs, for example, could and did do events. I doubt they had a high level of control for it, but they were involved. However, that faded away as time went on. Probably because of the numbers of players involved, and the number of DMs that would require, plus DMs being busy with other things, like granting last names to players level 20+. That last name thing wound up automated as well.

[@ignispurgatorius5297]

Dev A: "I'm too dumb to code NPCs, what should we do?" Dev B: "We just let some GMs promote some randos which can then work as NPCs" Dev A: "Ingenious!"

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

NPC is basically my default cosplay, well or something from sims. It takes basically no effort or skill to make and just works

[@JayDee-vq5rf]

You think that's bad then you realize that's how every government and business works.

[@ericwood3709]

I guess the game's creators must have had high-level characters on the server to help level their first players, huh? It's so weird for advancing to be totally dependent on other players, and obviously it would create a paradox on a fresh realm just as you're experiencing here.

[@SwissArmyCheese]

The game works like a DnD game, where the DM plays important characters that would be the first ones to get the ball rolling. Like the all powerful leaders, or types that keep out of player conflicts. They function exactly like NPC's, only you can communicate with them like a real player because they're being controlled by a player. So the team in charge gets the story and leveling started with those roles, and then other players become Teachers which are the quest givers. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to be max level to be a Teacher. Sometimes the Teachers are weaker than the people they're giving quests too.

[@ericwood3709]

@@SwissArmyCheese Sounds like the DM options in Neverwinter Nights taken to an MMO model. Of course, that's an anachronistic comparison on my part since NWN came later, but it's what I'm (somewhat) familiar with.

[@111zeldamaster]

that story near the end actually shook me; I've always had a fear of dementia and the loop around hit me like a sack of wet puppies

[@Frostiedkdk]

Sooo this game is kind of the chicken and the egg? what came first? How can there be any teachers? if it takes teachers to advance dreamers... I guess the creators of the game had all the power, and when they stopped, noone could advance above them.

[@Jacob-sb3su]

its slightly terrifying that theres just some dude out there playing this game and hunting anyone who logs on. What is that mans life.

[@zappbrannigan6845]

22:04 The other player's shout is in Underlight Maren. Says Emphant SHOUTS "Where are you kill? (Where did you die? I'm guessing. Could be a misspell of Dreamer - "eovoc". Where are you Dreamer) You can not hide. LOL He was gonna hunt Josh.

[@SwissArmyCheese]

Not a player.

[@brianclementoni6951]

As the current producer of UnderLight - and owner of KoiWare - I am saddened by this review. On a side note: This is a 100% volunteer that keep it going for nostalgic reasons and for our dedicated community. We may not be a large game, but we are a dedicated strong roleplaying community. We understand this is not for everyone. Your timing for being on the server was why you saw no one, try 7-midnite PST. I am sorry your experience wasn't amazing. It is for many of the rest of us, it was our first MMORPG, and for me it will always hold a place dear because of it. Underlight is much more like a tabletop RPG then it is a content based Online RPG. There is a ton of lore, history and many of us have played the game for upwards of 20 years together. Josh thank you for at least stepping in and looking around. There, however, is much more to see, much more attraction to "true" roleplayers who enjoy creativity and imagination driven content. The politics between the "houses" (factions), the beliefs, wars, political backstabbing - it is a microcosm of real life. It is different, but it's also amazing. I wish I had an opportunity to have interacted, maybe then you would have seen some of the rich creativity that our players provide that make it absolutely unique. Regardless, again, I say thank you for at least stopping by. The review, good or bad, is appreciated.

[@j.t.harrison3203]

You enter the dream. You see no one else in the room. Your ego can't handle it. You try and make a dreamer. You fail. Your mind begins to squirm from the emptiness around you, inside you. Suddenly you see a Golden halo. What do you do?

[@xHeigoux]

these kind of mmos always make me want to finish my second might and magic 6 playthrough

[@xaviermm5506]

I always love the "behold... Combat" part 😂

[@maysintv9168]

Oh my god..... I remember this game!! I suddenly don't know if I should feel nostalgia or shame.....

[@j.t.harrison3203]

Or both? I played UL too.

[@dominicmanester8125]

Seems like a wonderful idea without any of the features and structure required to support a player base long-term. At MINIMUM they needed more monster variation, bigger maps, developed crafting and trading and at least one introduction quest to get players partly immersed into the world. Not to mention some sort of incentive to keep playing your part in the world.

[@cheallaigh]

there's more npcs, emphant, bogrom, shamblix, horron... and he's lucky he never saw the last two. phants are usually newbie bait, same with bogs(they can go invis). the other two though... require some skill to kill, as one can only be hit from behind(using chakrams, he never found them or the shields) and the other has things like a para gaze/poison aura etc. you can make items, it's an "art" you need to learn and raise. there are a variety of items in the game, with generator fonts to trade, but no money... and since it was pvp, you could hunt players, kill them and take their items that dropped. there are also automated quests in the "library". he missed a lot of things, time zone doesn't help and that the only other player was actively hunting and killing him lmao... the only time a mare appears on your player list, is if it's controlled by another player.

[@victordavila9812]

If instead of making an MMO they should have made and online dnd platform that seems to be what they actually wanted to make

[@itsapplepai]

your writing (and especially so, your reading of it!) is spectacular.

[@Sevenigma777]

This is actually a really interesting concept and if this game was streamlined a bit with a couple of tweeks plus an updated graphics engine this would be something I def would be interested in and I could see it becoming very popular. This would also be a great idea for a VR game as well