Joy Division and Martin Hannett's production methods Part 1

UPDATE: more to come on the subject of Joy Division. Here's an excerpt: johnsongreen.m...
I'm working on a multi part series on this subject. There's a lot to explore. as usual I'll be using the whole thing to explore a few different avenues.
TEXT VERSION OF THIS VIDEO: johnsongreen.m...
This is an introductory video to one that should be up in the next day or so about replicating some of Martin Hannett's recording techniques using mainly free, or donationware VSTs and effects.
In the meantime Martin Hannett was an english record producer who did his most notable work with Manchester based label factory at the end of the 70s and early 80s. Famously he was a demanding producer, especially when it came to drummers. The reason for this is he liked to have each individual drum on it's own track with no mic bleed from the other tracks.
In essence he wanted what we can now do incredibly easily in and DAW (I use Reaper but the techniques I'm going to cover in this two part series will be easily transferable).
Hannett was interested in making impossible physical environments for the band to sit within. Naturalistic recording held no appeal to him. Lot's of this influence came from dub music and experimental electronics, some of his influences were chemical and herbal.
Addictions derailed his career but for a slight return to form in the late 80s.
Video source material (used for Educational purposes only)
Martin Hannett at Strawberry Studios
• Martin Hannett and Ton... (originally broadcast on Granada Television)
Martin Hannett interviewed by New Order for channel 4:
• New Order's Play At Ho...
Joy Division Live on 'Something Else':
• Joy Division - She's L...
Joy Division live at the Apollo:
• Joy Division - Live at...
Joy Division live: Bowdon Vale 14.03.1979.
• Joy Division live: Bow...

[@pboxantiques]

20ish years ago, i did my university dissertation on martin hannett. I managed to interview his assistant engineer as part of it. The uni had one of those original AMS delay lines which i managed to use for part of the project.

[@MusicEnthuZone]

That sounds really interesting, love how education establishments sometimes have crazy gear. My old college had an EMS VCS3 that I got to play with. Was it Chris Neagle that you interviewed?

[@DavidKRoebuck]

Nagle or Brierly?

[@Mancheguache]

I was teaching at Reading college a while back and the music lecturer tere recorded some stuff of mine on this massive mixing desk then causually said at the end 'Yeh Oasis recorded 'What's the Story... on this'. I thought he was joking but he showed me the paper work. What i recorded was far better of course lol

[@pboxantiques]

@@DavidKRoebuck Chris Nagel I think. I'd have to dig my papers out of the loft to be sure. But I'm 99%.

[@stephendallison1465]

R I P Martin Hannett

[@MusicEnthuZone]

INdeed, a true trailblazer.

[@IMOReviews]

In the great words of 24 hour party people… Martin Hannett. Too big for death. 🤘

[@TheKevgray1]

This is great mate, I'm an old punk, northern and loved the Buzzcocks and adored Joy Division. We need more of this .

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Thankyou Kev for the kind words. Believe it or not there is more coming soon. Should be doing the recording tomorrow.

[@TheKevgray1]

@@MusicEnthuZone Can't wait mate. Hits the spot, well researched and brilliantly presented .

[@Acid_Techno_Monk]

Legendary. Nuff said.

[@lostinthesupermarket]

Exactly what I was looking for, cheers mate

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Thanks, always nice to know this stuff is finding a home.

[@Mancheguache]

I lived in Stockport at the time - Joy Division summed my feelings up precisely

[@MusicEnthuZone]

I think it's one of the things that fascinates me about them. I grew up just over the pennines and the music reminds me of the aura that time had. I'm just putting the finishing touches on a series going into more depth on them in a few aspects.

[@Mancheguache]

@@MusicEnthuZone looking forward to that! Have you ever read K-Punk's blog? Mark Fisher - he was a Joy Division theorist too - proper intersting. The 'darkest' effort on UP is surely 'Insight'....the intro itself is worth spending a good three minutes on. I read that Hannet recorded the lift gate doors being slammed and the lift engine to provide atmosphere - it was a stroke of genius - creepy as f

[@DIEWELTMusicChannel]

...amazing....nothing less....big compliments for this....

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Thank you. I loved making it. Great it's being appreciated.

[@mjcleator]

3:34 Stuart Nevison, according to the AMS website. Neve teamed up with AMS in 1990. Good watch, thank you.

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Welcome. Tried to get as much accurate as possible but always open to more details if they're out there.

[@hughiedavies6069]

I loved this and the mixed up joy division sound. I'd really like to hear that background track, is it available? I also enjoyed the talk about Martin Hannett, he was way ahead of the times. Thanks I'll listen to the next part now.

[@MusicEnthuZone]

It certainly is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZ2weXegq7N2fcUsi=jpKwdERr260LOTsU Btw I managed to get the multitracks of this working the other day and am working with it for a soundtrack to an upcoming video.

[@salsabil44]

I loved everything from Joy Division, but I found the production on Unknown Pleasures a bit rough and experimental, and the difference to the slicker and tighter production on Closer was striking imho. I don´t know if this was due to Martin Hannet´s development as a producer or a change of studio?

[@HOMBRERUSOHABLA40]

I think as they had set their characteristic sound they wanted to explore on different things, that why closer sounds more full and thight

[@benitolazio8193]

Love his work on Joy Division , equally love Warsaw.

[@Happyradio1234]

Atrocity expedition is my favorite

[@MusicEnthuZone]

I know the mistake here was autocorrect so not gonna do a reddit and point it out. Amazing production isn't it. Barney and Hooky swapping instruments too. I still have no idea what that pneumatic drill noise is.

[@Happyradio1234]

@@MusicEnthuZone Me neither but it’s really cool sounding.

[@MusicEnthuZone]

@Happyradio1234 this got me thinking earlier. The drill and the whole sound are very similar to 'Negativland' from the first NEU! Album. I think it was an inspiration. I know Stephen Morris was a big NEU! Fan. I'm considering making an episode on Morris' out there musical tastes.

[@HOMBRERUSOHABLA40]

@@MusicEnthuZone oh yeah, is pretty interesting to know more about the amazing drummer Morris is

[@PontiacS.]

Subscribed. Cool Vids.

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Thank you. This was kind of my first attempt at doing a long (ish) form music story. It got 0 views to start with and it's lovely that people appreciate it. More to come on the subject.

[@frankjamesbonarrigo7162]

Daws can’t touch the sound of those boxes

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Very true but hey, I've stuck to free VSTs so they're budget friendly. Personally I REALLY WANT a Marshall Time Modulator. But I'm pretty sure that I'll never have one. Two and a half grand minimum, then there's finding a tech if any of the capacitors blow.

[@ghostexits]

This film of Martin Hammett behind the Helios console- I wonder where this is? I would presume it’s Strawberry Studios, but Strawberry famously had a red Helios console. Maybe there was more than one control room at Strawberry, and more than Helios.

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Second studio inside Strawberry would be my bet. They wouldn't have been premier clientele. Think some of the same pictures, with worse lighting, are famous ones of Hannett.

[@ghostexits]

@@MusicEnthuZone some of the circulated photos of Hannett sitting behind console show this black one, and others where he’s posed standing in front of console show the red one. They are different model consoles, not just color, which is why I was curious.

[@MosherBear]

I thought Mutt Lange's production methods were torturous; Martin definitely put Stephen Morris through hell.

[@kenbowden-k7n]

Looks like he’s trying to use Phil Spectre’s image. Shades and the handgun.

[@MusicEnthuZone]

He almost definitely was. The hair's not too far off either. There are worse producers to model yourself on professionally. That said there's about 6 billion nicer humans on earth.

[@terrypmusic]

Cool!

[@dorianfbt]

Can you tell me where that Stuart Neve quote comes from? Can't find it anywhere and I would like to read the whole thing. Thanks in advance, great vid

[@MusicEnthuZone]

I will check cause this was made a year or so ago. Pretty sure it's from Jon Savage's 'This Searing Light, the Sun and Everything Else' which is a great read anyway. So many fascinating details. EDIT: Yes it is. From the Oct 78-May 79 chapter. I have the ebook so don't know page number.

[@dorianfbt]

@@MusicEnthuZone Thanks a lot!

[@MusicEnthuZone]

You're welcome.

[@terryhaircastle5702]

Mate this is also an excellent production. This stuff is forcing the greens down KZbin's greasy juvenile neck

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Thanks, I'm pretty happy with the tune, it's fun to mumble along curtisisms with though I doubt I'll do a video of me doing 'the dance'. I'd be very glad indeed if I pass on a love of Joy Division to even one youth of today.

[@nonyobussiness3440]

The production on the album did not match how joy division was in real life nor was the sound they wanted

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Apparently the only thing Hooky and Bernard agree on is not liking the production on unkown pleasures. I think history proved Martin Hannett right though. Those otherwordly sounds made it a transcendental piece of art. Not just a great album. They were a tough live band though. The Les Bains Douche live album is the best representation of them live IMO. The Peel Sessions are an interesting alternate reality too.

[@jackstevo4604]

⁠​⁠@@MusicEnthuZonei thought that was about closer, not UP? i remember an interview (or maybe it was in his book) where he said he was really proud of how UP sounds but had some issues with closer

[@mikehunt5926]

they’re definitely more aggressive live, but even watching them live you can tell they made much slower and darker punk songs than anyone else, the production fits perfectly with the music they made regardless if it wasn’t exactly what they wanted

[@stevefrompolaca2403]

another similar madman was Phil Specter, both had a fondness for hardware ...

[@MusicEnthuZone]

They both liked guns. Thankfully Hannett never murdered anyone.

[@stevefrompolaca2403]

well? maybe himself out of frustration@@MusicEnthuZone

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Weird just did a longer reply to your other comment just now. Agreed, he effectively deleted himself through frustration. Very frustrating that his 80s career was so limited. With him going underground around 83 we lost a lost of innovation. His is a sad story, rightly he should be a bit like Brian Eno right now, someone who's respected for their opinions and place in popular culture.

[@frankjamesbonarrigo7162]

Where did you get that footage of him with the gun?

[@MusicEnthuZone]

It's from the early 1980s channel 4 documentary on New Order 'play at home' kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJ7aqaWYf86HoMUsi=h4NS4Kxs2Izump0F

[@sammyt587]

What’s the song in the background

[@MusicEnthuZone]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZ2weXegq7N2fcUsi=VZnq184oIgB9gthG It's this. A track I call Joy Div Lite. Using a few of the recording techniques and kinds of shapes they did.

[@indigohammer5732]

I’m sure Hannett is credited on a Deep Purple Album from the early/mid seventies

[@MusicEnthuZone]

I've never heard of this but would be fun to hear what he did if he did.

[@stevefrompolaca2403]

George Martin was a 'handler' ... Hannet totally different beast... mad as...

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Mad yes, but with a method. I think you're right with the Joe Meek comparison. Manipulative, visionary

[@jaredconnaughton4194]

What is the track in the background?

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Hi, it's actually my own demo track for the techniques I talk about. I titled it 'Joy Div Lite'. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZ2weXegq7N2fcU

[@stevefrompolaca2403]

more in common with Joe Meek than G Martin... imo

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Definitely true. To be honest it's not just apples and oranges but lemons, pears and grapefruit too. I suppose with George Martin as an analogue I'm meaning a shepherd in the studio 'Come on boys, let's make a hit'. In truth Hannett had a far different role. Partly because he was such a different personality to Sir George Martin (who would have been a superb diplomat). It's interesting you say about both Joe Meek and Phil Spector. Now I know we shouldn't judge on mental health issues but they both shot somebody, which is quite mental. If Hannett had have lived I think he would have shot Tony Wilson. That's my hot take.

[@fredjefurryoca4193]

Wrong ESG record 😮

[@MusicEnthuZone]

Ooops, good catch, you are of course totally right.

[@eastwoofer]

Who's joy division?

[@MusicEnthuZone]

A friend of my Mum's.

[@joellebrodeur1015]

A highly influential but short lived band from the late 70s. Their primary lyricist and singer, Ian Curtis, committed suicide May 1980 (he sufferered from severe epileptic seizures). The remaining members formed New World Order.

[@Julienjulienjulien]

The production is too smooth. I don't like it at all! Better listen joy division LIVE!

[@MusicEnthuZone]

I hear you. I like both sides personally. For me Les Bains Douche is the best document of them live.

[@johnned4848]

Correct Use of Soap is an underrated classic 🧼