DDR

[@jyrinx]

For the last part, it's basically just as if Clone had the type line “Creature - Shapeshifter Nightmare”, right? You don't expect the resulting creature to be a Shapeshifter either

[@ben_clifford]

I appreciate the bonus here. That is indeed the scenario I expected from the thumbnail.

[@seanheath4492]

Got the "doesn't exile because not a token" part right before the explanation. Bringing Clone back with Abyssal Harvester is an interesting interaction.

[@dwpetrak]

Makes me think of a fun reanimator deck list, gotta include ol' Chainer Dimentia Master in there... Maybe some Lazav(s).

[@chriswr_]

My only gripe with the copy machine analogy is that if I took the Grizzly Bear Nightmare token from the battlefield to the copy machine, it would die to state based actions and I wouldn't be able to copy it :(

[@jerodast]

The copy machine is just a special part of the battlefield you don't normally pay attention to, it doesn't have to change zones to go there :P See the rule section titled "Office Park".

[@ZorroDitXav]

Technically, unless the copying machine is directly adjacent to the player's play mat(a required object for interactions such as this), moving the token away from the battlefield will indeed result in it ceasing to exist.

[@volcelectomy]

Actually, there is one notable way to turn a token into a nontoken, and vice versa, and this may actually be a pretty realistic situation due to the prevalence of the Nightmare creature type among relevant cards. Since a creature that has mutated uses all characteristics of the top card in the pile and only the abilities of the rest, mutating a card on top of a token creature will result in a nontoken one, but copying a mutate spell and mutating the copy on top of a creature, token or otherwise, will produce a token mutate pile, since copied permanent spells become tokens. Additionally, since all cards in a mutate pile go to the same place when they change zones, and many cards with mutate are Nightmares, activating Abyssal Harvester after copying, for example, an Insatiable Hemophage spell, would cause you to exile the token Hemophage, as well as all cards mutated under it.

[@yawg691]

Mutate. *takes drag off a cigarette* Mutate was a mistake.

[@volcelectomy]

@yawg691 I like mutate :(

[@yawg691]

@volcelectomy (me too actually but my goodness the rules o_o)

[@dwpetrak]

Mutate. The needlessly more complicated version of Bestow.

[@casparash5370]

@@yawg691 Bwhahahahaha

[@Peronioz]

Years of playing Brudiclad got me through this one easily.

[@iTzDritte]

😎Always feels good to get everything right in a 4 star video 😎

[@jerodast]

I normally am not one to say "that was so easy it's not 4 stars" but "it's not a token, so no" does seem hard to twist into a 4* explanation haha. I can see how the "except" clause can be confusing/niche, but as Judge Dave says, it's all bypassed very cleanly if you're just looking for an answer to the question :) Now the follow-up...that I can see being 4 stars. I was wondering if you could apply the copy effects in either order, so it either could be a Nightmare or not depending on whether Clone's ability is applied first or not...I guess you can't use the Clone's ability unless it's already a copy of Clone, so the Nightmare ability is already done at that point.

[@Flyboy245]

Ok hold on. You mentioned that there was no way to make a non token into a token, or vice versa. I believe I have a counter to that; Ivy gleeful spellthief. Or if not, then I myself would need some rule’s clarification. Anyway. If I have a grizzly bears and an Ivy, and I target the bears with a mutate card like migratory greathorn, causing Ivy to trigger, I can elect to put the mutate card on top of Ivy. Since her trigger makes a token that’s a copy of that card, if I put it on top, wouldn’t it then become a token? And then if I had that same Ivy mutate stack, and mutated another migratory greathorn, but this time only targeting Ivy, and put it on top, it would make it a real card again. Sorry for the confusion, hopefully that description makes sense. Am I correct in this?

[@benbv8167]

How does abyssal harvester giving clone the nightmare cretaure type differ from something like phyrexian metamorph making itself an artifact? Is the nightmare creature type being overwitten by the clone copy ability? My expectation was the clone token enters as a copy of anything but the harvester ability still makes it a nightmare. Is that a missunderstanding?

[@laytonjr6601]

The harvester makes a token copy that is also a nightmare. Then the token enters and you can use its ability to copy something else, so the nightmare type is overwritten

[@benbv8167]

@laytonjr6601 okay, so let's say an opponent controls cursed mirror, and I cast a phyrexian metamorph entering as a copy of cursed mirror entering as a copy of grizzly bears. In this situation, my metamorph is a 2/2 non-artifact grizzly bears with haste until end of turn. Correct?

[@omegaflame9012]

@@benbv8167 not quite the metamorph would become an artifact creature grizzly bears with haste *permanently* as when you copy something that is copying something else you just copy what they are copying. The reason for the video's interaction is because you're making a token copy of a card that's not on the field instead of a permanent and thus the clone's ability is applied after.

[@benbv8167]

@omegaflame9012 that makes sense for metamorph copying a cursed mirror that is currently still a copy of grizzly bears, but what if cursed mirror is no longer a grizzly bears (after that players end step)?

[@omegaflame9012]

@@benbv8167 in that case I think it would just enter as the mirror essentially ignoring the mirror's copy ability. While the metamorph would have the ability you would already be past the window to chose something for it when the metamorph copies it. A better target for explaining copy effects overwriting each other would be something like lazav, the multifarious. If you copy your opponent's lazav with phyrexian metamorph and then used his ability too copy grizzly bears you would have a 2/2 legendary creature - bear named lazav with his copy ability as the metamorph ability is getting overwritten.

[@metleon]

So what we need is: - Nightmare Harvester on the field - Clone in the graveyard - Lightning Greaves or some other way to give all our creatures Haste - A way to repeatedly put Clone back in the graveyard after Nightmare Harvester exiles it We now have infinite Nightmare Harvesters

[@isaz2425]

there are very few effects that can bring a card from exile and I don't think any of them is infinite.

[@metleon]

@isaz2425 Yeah probably not. And there should be less janky ways to get infinite tokens, anyway.

[@ThunderDave333]

@@isaz2425 You could do an elaborate setup withsome mana rocks and 2 Isochron Scepters - one with Dramatic Reversal, the second with Pull form Eternity

[@kamilsowik7884]

Hi I just played my first FNM Strandard in ages and something interesting came up: Tshana's tidebinder vs impending, ho does it work? Does impending apply characteristic to a card or is it like tharos gods, that turn into normal creatures?

[@jerodast]

According to CR, Impending represents 4 abilities. One of those abilities is "As long as this permanent has a time counter on it, if it was cast for its impending cost, it’s not a creature." This is similar to the Gods - if it loses the ability that says it's not a creature, it is now a creature. It would also lose the ability to remove time counters, and would NOT lose the counters themselves. So if Tidebinder leaves play, it would go back to not being a creature until the time counters are gone. It would also not lose its memory that it was cast for its impending cost, so it would resume removing counters each turn.

[@alasanof]

It's a shame the nightmare can't become a knight-bear with dub.

[@gatherer818]

Isn't one of the "un-set but still legal because let's make things even more complicated" cards able to turn tokens into non-tokens as well? I believe there's a Commander deck that uses it to fuel a Battle of Wits.

[@allopeth]

you can make a token into a nontoken by mutating on top of it :D

[@laytonjr6601]

And another comment said, you can turn a nontoken into a token by mutating on top of it (the copy of a creature spell becomes a token when it enters the battlefield)

[@jaysonexists6149]

what is the name a clone inherits if it copies a token? is the name “(creature types) token” still copied, just the property of the card is not considered a token?

[@JudgingFtW]

This question is covered in DDR#823: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYDOf4SLea92rKc

[@steviemerrill4964]

If you give all your creatures haste this will combo

[@kimcoleeppling8177]

I’m honestly not sure why this one is four stars? It felt fairly clear and intuitive to me.

[@laytonjr6601]

The answer is "being a token isn't a copyable value" which may be unintuitive

[@jerodast]

@@laytonjr6601 Yeah...I wasn't sure if this was 4* because the side question in part 1 was a bit more niche, the bonus question at the end was a LOT more niche, or because WotC keeps printing those damn things that say "Token" on the type line and making everyone think "token" is copiable :P Give me the bag of glass beads included in my 1996 MtG starter box to represent tokens every day of the week I say! Tokens and cards are totally, physically, obviously different!

[@laytonjr6601]

@@jerodast Unless mutate is involved

[@ceulgai2817]

I got the right answer, but for the wrong reason. No marks 😔

[@camfunme]

What made this a 4*?

[@NoNo-u4t]

Big question : If you have a legendary such as Toxrill, and an enemy makes a copy of it, is the initial Toxeril shunted from field? I would expect 704.5j to be little if any help here since it talks only on legends of the same player invalidating any duplicates of their own. I would think if there were variations of card they may bypass the legend rule in that they're not the same named card, however a simple copy of a legendary on field should in my opinion negate the other legend from the field. Am I wrong? Is there a rule on this which is in the newer rule sets?

[@flaetsbnort]

The reason the rule you cited only mentions legends the same player controls is because the rule you're thinking of was changed a long time ago, and nowadays the legend rule only affects players individually. Each player is allowed to have one legendary creature named Toxrill, regardless of whether they played a Toxrill from their decks or copied someone else's Toxrill. As long as the two Toxrills never come under the control of a single player their existence don't affect each other.

[@TheHometodd]

Yes, you are wrong, the legend rule hasn't worked like that in almost a decade. Each player can control one legendary permanent with the same name.

[@NoNo-u4t]

@@flaetsbnort Okay second question. Would the first Tox cause the second to come out with the slime counter and invalidate it's abilities?

[@jerodast]

@@NoNo-u4t I'm not sure where you'd get "invalidating any abilities". Each end step, the Tox of the current player hits the other player's guys with Slime. That would include the other player's Toxrill, but that wouldn't take any abilities from that Toxrill. It would just be a 6/6, then 5/5, then 4/4 etc with the same abilities as before.

[@jerodast]

Maybe you're referring to what they would do to each others' Slugs. Yes, the first Tox to get its end step would Slime some stuff. Let's say that kills five 1/1s. So first player gets five 1/1 Slugs. Next turn, second player's Tox goes off. (Maybe it's a 6/6 because it was in play last turn and also got slimed, or maybe they just cast it and it's a 7/7. Doesn't matter to its abilities.) It would kill the five Slugs, and now the second player has five Slugs. Next turn, those Slugs die and first player gets Slugs again. So not "invalidated", and also not "coming out with the slime counters", but definitely competing with each other.