Judo Belt System: The Shintaro Higashi show

Since being introduced by the founder of Judo Jigoro Kano, the belt system has been an important part of virtually all martial arts. How did it come about, and how should we approach it? Peter and I discuss various aspects of the belt system to provide a balanced view on it.
You can listen to this episode from the following links:
My blog: shintarohigashi.com/podcast/the-belt-system
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-belt-system/id1540600589?i=1000522968172
Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/2CMj3BWYkhVmhmgBx12jNn?si=3TWYrmBARyKTvWRnHfcXEw
Google Podcasts: podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8zZWUxNDFhOC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw/episode/OGMxNTU5NjYtYzk3Mi00NGM0LWExMDEtNmQyYzAwMjlkMWQ3?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwj4r5-KgOXwAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ
Anchor: anchor.fm/shintaro-higashi-show/episodes/The-Belt-System-e11gtj9

[@td4yd154]

This is better than Rogan for me

[@lukebarnett6434]

@star35mm yeah I agree 💯

[@td4yd154]

@star35mm trust me you don’t want that. It’ll get popular and flooded with druggie bimbros.

[@montagistreel]

This is better than Rogan, objectively; no homophobes, interest in the n-word, nor low-key normalization of hateful ideology

[@RonnyDoplo]

@@montagistreel bingo

[@InvisibleHotdog]

What if we put chimpanzees in kimonos and give them DMT?

[@tsuikki]

In the biography of Kano sensei, it is mentioned that at the time, the university swimming team had black ribbons tied to around their waist to separate the experienced people from the beginners and the inspiration for the more advanced belt colour came from there. In the old times there were only white belts and black belts. Also the judogi is originally a firemans jacket for practical reasons - At some point you get annoyed for people ripping your kimono in pieces all the time.

[@johncarson222]

I literally the other day was thinking that my fire jacket would be perfect to grip and throw with glad they thought the same back in the day.

[@judoandy3308]

It's nice to be registered with the Kodokan. The US Judo organizations can dissolve and you are still good to go. I was once allowed to train with JGSDF Soldiers in Japan because I could show my Kodokan membership card as a Sandan.

[@lukebarnett6434]

The best Judo podcast ever , Superb , Regards from England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@londonrhodes2429]

I expected them to talk badly on the belt system but this was a really fair and balanced approach to talking about the belt system.

[@tk5800thesecond]

13:35 my teacher has talked before about other students coming in to train, ither inter state or internationally, and finding some of them although may have a blue belt they dont know some fundamental things. like when turning in for a throw repeadetly for practise, he went up to some of them and asked "what throw are you practising" and they said "i dont know, im just turning in". or other times when an orange belt was being thrown but they didnt quite have break falling down so the teacher had to do a crash course in break falls.

[@mmongiello722]

Orange and blue are kids rank.

[@tk5800thesecond]

@@mmongiello722 I should have specified I live in Australia and our belts are different

[@mmongiello722]

@@tk5800thesecond one time when I was a sankyu some poser showed up with a cracker jack box, black belt. Was the only time my sensei ever told me to get after someone in the room. It was very fun and he was told upon his exit a white belt was required for reentry.

[@shannons1886]

At Renzo’s in NYC, we had attendance cards. There was simply too many people to track and a lot of instructors for different classes. I trained five days a week and had 4-5 different professors, so the attendance card was important for tracking.

[@PitBlackBelt]

Great episode. I learned so much. Thank you.

[@ajshiro3957]

Perfect time to watch a podcast. And right as I turn on my phone

[@hungersquid]

what a great podcast

[@jedijudoka]

Kano himself explains his choices for belt ranks in Mind over Muscle

[@user-rm5md2do6d]

Thank you

[@ajshiro3957]

It's nice hearing Higashi talk about what it takes to be a sensei and a black belt. I'm on that journey, and it's a lot. Just learning to teach feels like college. Taking notes, training, assisting with classes, on top of going to regular classes is a lot.

[@Karen-fs6lf]

Canada has standardize the grading under one body .for shodan thete is a independent board for gradind so the standard is kept

[@ajshiro3957]

I know that the Kyu and Dan ranks come from Go. And beginners there play as the white stones, while the more experienced players play black. So I guess Judo got it's ranking from there

[@shannons1886]

Would love to hear about the classic promotion process of batsugan and how it was done in Japan initially. In Hudson Judo Yudanshakai (Shintaro’s), we had to batsugan to promote kyu and dan grades.

[@safetyguy]

Enjoyed this discussion! I absolutely agree with you on how you determine belt progression! Our Sensei is the same as you as make the decision on belt promotion on what he sees from each judoka. Most judo clubs in our area are more strict on attendance and the syllabus testing. Maybe it has to do with background of Japanese culture and training vs non Japanese clubs that haven’t had the advantage of any Japanese training!

[@Building_Brian]

"We'll splice this out." The promise every editor makes and never actually wants to cash :D such cool information, love these guys and their discussions.

[@gingercore69]

Ive heard that he actually took it from swimming athletes that used black caps to signify who was like .. the capitan of the team or something... And also something from a japanese tabletop game that had ranks similar to modern martial arts... Now... That doesnt mean its true, but its a story ive heard about it

[@hahaha00000]

That sounds interesting...

[@martialartsguild6460]

If you happen to read this Sensei Higashi, I would like to know your thoughts on kind of my situation I am a 3rd degree brown belt in Judo, I do compete in tournaments every so often I took bronze in the lonestar classic in feb 2022 I am also a Muay Thai Fighter and have figured out ways to use judo techniques in my Thai fights I have 6 wins 2 Losses 1NC. Now I'm going to get ready for my mma debut, which obviously I will be using my Judo in my mma fight and fights after that. How do you feel about using mma and or other styles of fights to gauge the progression of a fighter since its not a Judo tournament for points to rank up like the Nationals? I would like to hear from other Senseis their opinion on this as well.

[@ADAM_CAMMA]

I rather appreciate your remarks about how the belts are subjective. I can not express how much I enjoy it because others will have a very concrete concept and that does not work. A system can have expectations, but to put every person in the same inflexible structure is pointless and limiting

[@fredriksjoblom5161]

It's great that you talk about belts being subjective. I'm based in sweden where most classes in competitions are purely based on weight. I've never encountered a "black belt class" or anything like that. I stopped working towards new belts as an orange belt, and instead just focus on judo. A friend of mine did the same thing but with a lot more focus and i've seen him absolutely destroy every black belt in the regional championships, often in less than 10 seconds. He makes people that really should be able to give him a good match look like white belts, and many of those wins can be attributed to the fact that the black belt sees his orange belt and thinks he is going to dominate this guy with little to no effort.

[@devriestown]

Hi I'm 32 and really want to learn judo. Am I to old? Iv done 5 years of bjj and a little bit of wrestling 3 three years of boxing and two of muay thai.

[@dmartin6025]

Do it. Some people at my club (Inc black belts) started in their 30s, 40s, and even 50s

[@bruceboom7378]

I've seen 50 yo whitebelts

[@bruceboom7378]

Did u start?

[@stacybehrens7152]

I started judo near age 50 because I’m a wrestling coach and unfortunately nobody trains in wrestling after college aside from a few Olympic level elites. Judo scratches that itch. Lots of people my age in my dojo. Doesn’t matter much how old you are. Just don’t judge your progress the same way an 18 year old might.

[@maou3118]

How do you go about training strength and conditioning for grappling?

[@hectorcaraveo3913]

Just by going harder during randori. I know that sounds stupid but building throwing muscles requires throwing, or even just muscle memory with your trips

[@sybo59]

Check Starting Strength if you’re a novice. In short, go heavy on the big lifts - squat, deadlift, press. Pull-ups as well.

[@mmongiello722]

I’m a Hudson shodan with about 6 promotion points and 13 years time and grade. I spend about 4 hours on the matt a week but, I will never get another rank. I’m not sure if I am alone in saying the amount of time and abuse required to practice the kata is overbearing. With absolutely 0 interest in doing a judo dance, it’s hard for me to ask one of my partners to take hundreds of fake falls from fake throws when I myself do not want to be practicing the kata. The idea, that my badly beaten partner and I travel to NJ for a full day to demonstrate with the possibility that we could fail and get absolutely nothing for our time and money, is enough to stop me from practicing the kata in the first place. Does anyone else feel the same way?

[@johnathannelsonento2040]

I disagree, but I'm only a yonkyu who only been practicing two years. It seems some people just don't like doing kata, which is whatever. In my own club I'm one of the only adults who practice kata.

[@mmongiello722]

@@johnathannelsonento2040 If you are the only adult doing kata your gonna have a hard time getting a black belt without a partner. I'm not sure I understand what you disagree with. My personal decision not to seek promotion?

[@johnathannelsonento2040]

@@mmongiello722 Whether or not you want to seek promotion is up to you. I'm commenting on how averse a lot of people are at practicing kata.

[@mmongiello722]

@@johnathannelsonento2040 The biggest problem with practicing the kata is that one person is getting better and the other person is getting hurt. But second is the good chance of failure and then needing to ask your partner to take 6 more months of abuse to try again.

[@Vangienator]

I have the distinct feeling that you have not understood that kata is there to show the principles of different throws. Or in other words your teacher has neglected to teach you the spirit of judo. The techniques are in no way fake, but absolutely real. If your partner is badly beaten or even hurt then something is going terribly wrong. Also, expecting to learn a whole kata up to the required minimum in six months or less, is unrealistic. As other people have already pointed out: It's your decision to rank up or not. Personally, I want the black belt and then I'm content for the time being and can/will work on other stuff. Could you also specify which kata you are referring to? Systems seem to very different around the world, although usually it's Nage-no-Kata for 1st Dan and Gatame-no-kata for 2nd Dan and then systems differ in the order/kombination of katas.

[@joesphruggiero3707]

I luv pajamas i do jits and lil judo because you need pajamas when i get put too sleep lol

[@shannons1886]

Lol, I’ve been a Shodan since 2008 (Kodokan) 😂

[@mmongiello722]

Me too. It just doesn’t seem fair the amount of time and punishment anyone’s partner would need to donate to help me practice the kata. Also, the kata is not fun and the promotional has limited participants. How many times can you drive to New Jersey, pay dues for 1 or 2 minutes of matt time or have multiple people spend a full day going to help you get rank and being told your partner looked like he was jumping, so you fail.

[@shannons1886]

@@mmongiello722 agreed!!

[@mmongiello722]

@@shannons1886 do you still play?

[@hectorcaraveo3913]

@@mmongiello722 thats horrible!

[@mmongiello722]

@@hectorcaraveo3913 are you in the same boat?

[@entertainme72]

I believe that younger kids in South Korea, for example, wear a black belt, though their level of skill or experience is not close to that of 1st kyu or shodan that I've seen in Canada. Does the black belt mean something different in that case?

[@MC-sf4ht]

I just came across this video and happened to see your question. I have spent time in Korea and have done tkd, hapkido, and these days yudo(judo). As they touched on in the video, the belts aren't different per se, but the perception of what a black belt is is different. 1st dan means you know the very basics, that's it. In tkd and hapkido kids usually had their 1st dan, or 'poom' if under 14 in 18mo. Judo maybe 2years. Only after 2nd dan does your dan rank mean anything to people. When I taught tkd I had high school students moving on to sports universities and they were 3rd and 4th dan. Judo a little different-- to get past 1st dan you have to compete. Sorry for being long winded, hope it was helpful

[@shannons1886]

Hudson’s Nage No Kata requirement was the hardest part of promoting to black.

[@mmongiello722]

It’s more about politics. I have seen them pass complete failures. All you need to do is volunteer to run a table and you get a free pass.

[@user-rm5md2do6d]

Why is there a picture of Mifune wearing a white and red belt and Kano a black belt??

[@TonyPacenski]

White gi and red belt= Japan Flag