Judo's Striking Compared to Karate

Judo might be best known as a throwing art, but how do it's strikes stack up against karate strikes? What is Judo missing, and what do they have that we could learn from in order to improve our karate the traditional way? This video breaks down Judo's atemi-waza, the striking techniques that are forbidden in randori and competitions, and judges whether a Judoka could go toe-to-toe with a karateka in a striking competition.
Sources:
Kawaishi, Mikinosuke. My Method of Self-Defence
Higaonna, Morio. Okinawan Goju-Ryu Karate
kodokanjudoinstitute.org/en/do...

[@timmystehr]

I'm glad you realize that Ameridote is the ultimate fighting art. ;)

[@stupidfrog2205]

I really liked the opening minute of this video where you discussed about respecting all styles and that another style probably does something better than your style does. Nice video. I actually learned a lot having never done Judo before aside from 4 or 5 classes. I had no idea Judo had strikes.

[@jedijudoka]

Is judo striking as good as karate? Depends on what for. Judo atemi is mostly used as kuzushi or a means to enter a grip/clinch. Throws and submissions are the judokas finishers, atemi is just there to help you get to that point.

[@rodneyg777]

Thank you for taking the time to do these videos! I for one appreciate the effort

[@rodneycox7462]

Wow. He selected one section of one old book by one non-mainstream judo man (who started in ju-jitsu) who wrote one self-defence book and concluded, wrongly, that Judo does not have uppercuts or hook punches.

[@kenwintin3014]

Upper cut and side kick are in the Kime no kata and Goshinjutsu, but are done by "uke" or the guy who loses. A real exposition of judo striking is found in the longest and most ignored of Kodokan kata, the Seiryoku Zenyo Kokumin Taiku. It is available on You Tube. I do agree that Judoka usually don't know how to do atemi or not very well. I am a rokudan in judo, jujutsu and sandan in aikido with sixty years experience teaching and admit that your opinions are pretty much spot on.

[@Supermomo2007]

can i learn judo striking from youtbe?

[@kenwintin3014]

@@Supermomo2007 You might be better to learn a karate system unless you have a judo sensei who really know atemi waza. Without a teacher, it is near impossible to learn a fighting art online only.

[@trapperscout2046]

Judo's pressure point control techniques look very similar to what is taught in many police departments.

[@SenseiEmmett]

Great video, very interesting. Thanks

[@andrewfisher1051]

An excellent presentation of information! You won my subscription.

[@colefowles4003]

Your awesome man and your videos keep getting better and better.

[@gerardhart9052]

This was basically the informed opinion of a karateka, discussing an aspect of judo that practically does not exist. I have trained in both styles and can tell you that a judoka does not need a large striking vocabulary as distraction striking or hitting a pinned or downed opponent is child's play. The philosophy difference is at the heart of every do or way karatedo stresses taking advantage of every opportunity presented and making devastating counter attacks. Judo stresses preserving the opponent, self control, flexible responses and the maximum efficient use of energy. Martial arts are intended as training for life not for mma and only very seldom if at all for street fights/self defence. Competitive judo is like chess and competitive karate is like boxing or dance depending on the rule set used, ironically sport judo is scored based on only the first person to make a point which is closer to karate's mindset.

[@cletusgadsden2969]

You earned a new subscriber! Good work!

[@Eternaprimavera73]

Jerry doesn t put style versus style but pijama vs pijama. Before considering the fights as a style vs style, he should try to see if, also according to what you say here, the person can really represent his curriculum, also in terms of body training, otherwise doesn t make sense to speak about styles.

[@chrismerritt571]

Another informative video thank you.

[@stevepanda1716]

I am kodansha who learned judo from Kano’s era. Fun discussion, but I’d add a few points, in no particular order. Judo does kekomi type kicks, but less frequently than kicks with bent legs. (They aren’t exactly keage.) This is because Judo’s approach to combat is to block, control, strike while closing rapidly, then finishing through a variety of ways at close range. As you know from Goju, at close range you tend to kick with bent knees and tend front and round kick. In Judo roundhouse kicks are considered variants of front kicks. Also note that the oldest versions of Okinawan kata have almost no side or round kicks because they were fighting close range. Same with Judo. Judo doesn’t want to fight at long range. In the kata, we also have examples of knee kicks, close punches, and uppercuts to the chin at close range, to be followed up with throws. Striking with the head also makes sense when fighting so close. Kururunfa (spelling?) does this in Goju. Don’t compare what modern competitors do to what was the original art.

[@rudycuyno874]

Great vid^^ & I whole heart agree ^^ with u also i love style vs style comparison as well as weapons &armor history ^^ along with military history ^^

[@Seifukusensei]

Great video. Though I'd feel it would be more accurate of you said Judo strikes compare to Goju strikes since you discarded the strikes of other styles of karate as being "uncommon" enough to be relevant.

[@themadrazorback2019]

Extra comment - reading EJ Harrison's book, The Fighting Spirit of Japan. If you have not read it, I think you would enjoy it. Very historical account by a westerner who was present as Judo came to rise. He said that karate was by far the more lethal art. I think part of his thinking was due to the use of makiwara, etc. to make the strike more effective. Great stuff!

[@Samlaren]

Very interesting, as always, but I believe that the video could be a couple of seconds longer :) Regarding Keage vs Kekomi... How do you do your sidekick (yoko, or sokuto geri), as keage or kekomi? I was taught Keage = Kin geri, and yoko/sokuto geri. And Kekomi = Kanetsu geri and ushiro geri. But I have seen all kinds of mixes, even within my organization, especially in bunkai/kumite (or in flashy kicks, the Tobi variants are the opposite for Mae geri (nidan geri is keage and yoko tobi geri is kekomi).

[@jedijudoka]

Katame waza isn’t just osae waza(pins) but also shime waza(strangulations) and kansetsu waza(joint locks). Cheers😊

[@themadrazorback2019]

Great stuff, as always. Question: do you know the origin/time of the photo at 2:18? Looks like rifles or training rifles on the wall. Thanks!

[@ediliziamisteriosa3576]

Ho contato circa 60 atemi tra i vari kata di kodokan judo, escludendo quelli che si ripetevano sia negli attacchi che nelle difese. Il Kodokan judo è un'arte marziale a tutti gli effetti e contiene, come molte delle koryu giapponesi: l'atemi waza, il nage waza e il katame waza, ma a differenza delle altre, contiene varie fasi del combattimento dal tachi waza al ne waza. Contiene l'esperienza del periodo pre Edo (campi di battaglia) ed Edo fino al periodo Meji. Gli atemi vengono studiati in kata che si focalizzano su aspetti diversi dello shinken shoubu. E' uno studio complesso che nella sua interezza porta a prepararsi al combattimento reale shinken shoubu. Oggi molti non praticano judo kodokan, ma la lotta giapponese sportiva derivata dal randori di judo kodokan che erroneamente viene chiamata judo. Il kodokan judo nei suoi allenamenti predilige il nage waza, il karate nei suoi vari stili, si focalizza principalmente sull'atemi waza. Il judo kodokan è molto simile alle altre scuole di ju jutsu che non si concentrano sull'uso dell'atemi.

[@ruser0084]

In my dojo we were actually taught the dropping knee strike for the purpose of pinning an opponent. Maybe there was Judo influence. Thank you for this video and for inspiring me to look into my school's (Uechi Ryu) history.

[@user-nq2kq3je4e]

Something to bear in mind is balance and the fighting stance of a Judoka. I am a Kodokan black and indeed the punching style and stance is that of boxing. Several reasons for that but primarily because Kano bought experts from boxing and catch wrestling to Japan. I agree the range of kicking is reduced however there are several reasons for that. It is of questionable effectiveness against a stomp or barge and puts the attacker off balance. The success of Judo in my view is the extreme difficulty in bringing them down together with a preference toward the body types in Japan vs China. BJJ is essentially a modification of Kosen Judo which has meant as the rules have been opened up in MMA we gave seen some notable successes from the Judo world. I think it more likely that as Okinawas Te forms reached Japan Karate boxing, locks, grapples and throws have been heavily influenced by Judo. I think there is a solid reason why Judo and similar techniques in China were uses extensively by police rather than Karate techniques. Also you forgot extensive weapons training, Sumo and the true place and purpose of the Koryu in Judo.

[@simonlatimer8449]

Lol, so impressed you feel Ameridote is the ultimate. Respect lmao. Loving your stuff bud. Keep it up please. Many thanks for your efforts. Arigato Gozaimashita.

[@michaeltaylor8501]

Re: Atemi-Waza... The book, "My Method of Self-Defense" is an excellent book that shows much Atemi-Waza, but not all of Atemi-Waza. Apparently the author didn't use all of Atemi-Waza's techniques in his own method; & this is understandable; for a practitioner of a martial-art may be exposed to many techniques, but he usually ends up focusing primarily on a subset of techniques - techniques of his choosing - that he believes best suit his outlook & most importantly those that fit his ability. For instance, the author chose only 2 types of usages for the knee: up or down: towards his front. Knee usage in some schools of Ju-Jitsu also include kneeing outwards sideways from one's own side. My dad was exposed to instruction in Judo's Atemi-Waza & Geri-Waza (kicks), & my dad almost always put his hips behind his kicks to thrust his foot out (he prefered these power-kicks - which he was very adept with - over snap-kicks; whereas, when I was a youngster, I preferred snap-kicking). As a kid I was raised around some judoka & experienced some of those finger-locks you mentioned - & other special hand techniques; however, my first formal martial-arts instruction was in a particular lineage of Shotokan Karate (not all Shotokan lineages practice the same way, placing emphasis on different techniques/methods); I also was exposed to 'Ninpo Tai-Jitsu' which is merely a label attached to some style of Ju-Jitsu [one student of the school who had had previous Judo instruction re-named the art 'Bujinkan Ninpo Tai-Jitsu' while another student re-named this same art 'Samurai Ju-Jitsu' - I forgot the name of the school used by their mutual instructor (a Mr Takamatsu) - if any - & I also forgot the name(s) of the art or arts that he taught to both of them; the Bujinkan guy became famous (a Mr Hatsumi)]. I noticed that the chopping hand in Shotokan is held quite differently than in Judo which in turn is a slight variant of the chopping hand taught by Takamatsu's students (or vice-versa, as Takamatsu was a Ju-Jitsu practitioner who later fell in love with Karate & the chopping hand he taught appears like some 'Karate-tized' variation of Judo/Ju-Jitsu's chopping hand because it was made to be more 'squared' & stiff)... Judo cups the hand's palm & fingers plus places the tip of one's thumb against the side of the forefinger's foreknuckle... The 'Bujinkan' & 'Samurai' schools branching from Takamatsu have the thumb in the same position but hold the fingers stiff & un-cupped... Shotokan has the thumb folded & along the side of the palm while drawing back the longer finger(s) to the length of the straightened forefinger as the little finger is also held straight out: there's no cupping the palm (there's only the very shallow natural cup of the hand that's left over when the palm is flattened out)... Note: There are other chopping hand positions in other schools of martial arts... IMO these 3 methods of chopping hand positions described above determine how the hand can be used for other-than-chopping purposes. Each has its own strengths (I won't say, '& weaknesses,' but rather I will say, '& usages;' it's like looking at a variety of hammers: none are bad; all are good; but some will have special usages that others won't have*). * = How's that for philosophy? 🤔

[@davidcifuentes5565]

the real atemi waza of judo is from Yoshin-ryu. very old school

[@dfk09]

I didn't know that Judo had strikes. But I guess it makes sense, You need to control distance and close distance. That's where the strikes and strike defense comes in before you can make the throw...

[@rudycuyno874]

100% correct ^^ in fact judo was original call kano-ryu-jujutsu ^^

[@FedericoGalletta-fc1um]

I looked with attention. As a Judoka i studied with a lot of masters, a lot of the traditionally oriented. I agree, not only the kicks in judo but also the punches are generally more intended as flashes to open other "omotè". So it's not important how they're powerful, instead should be important how fast they are and their timing. Second point: in the spirit of judo philosophy and with a certain assonance of the general style of striking the kick to the knee it's more a passage to throw and neutralize on the ground. But i ensure you that when we study ho to kick knees to break knees it's an option. Generally we don't apply too much on uppercuts or circular punches, but it's not true they doesnt' exists in judo. They are also showed in some kata. Finally i agree with you that even if the judo knowdlege of striking it's really understimated (at first by judokas) anyway it's not comparable with the experience of a pure striking art, like karate.

[@toraguchitoraguchi9154]

Coming from a Goju Ryu practitioner I'm shocked to hear you say that you've never seen head-butts trained or as a part of any official syllabus - It is one of the key strikes in Goju-ryu. And if you want to find it in syllabus, just look at Morio Higaonna's book on kata and bunkai. It is also practised in Okinawan Goju-Ryu. Isn't there an obvious head-butt to the rear, in Kururunfa, or do you think you were supposed to be looking upwards at the clouds? And in Shisochin, you don't see the head-butt ?

[@GojuRyuPhilosopher]

I actually find those applications interesting, since I practice them differently. I've seen several versions of Kururunfa which don't include the "looking to the sky" aspect of that technique, such as the Jundokan version and the Shoreikan version (which is the one that I've learned). I can see how the Shisochin sequence could be interpreted as a headbutt, but given the hand position, and the pull afterwards, I think a more likely interpretation is a throwing technique (like the ox-throw I mention in the companion video to this comparing karate's throws). I also checked my version of Higaonna Morio's books, but neither of the ones I have (the first and third) mention headbutt techniques. Perhaps they're mentioned in the second book.

[@toraguchitoraguchi9154]

@@GojuRyuPhilosopher It's one of the first things I was told in Goju-kai about 30+ years ago, and then again re-affirmed when I joined the IOGKF. The UK IOGKF shihans will tell you they practiced head-butts frequently in the early days. I've used head-butts in iri-kumi and I've been struck by head-butts in irikumi. As for books, you've gotta read them thoroughly.

[@toraguchitoraguchi9154]

Being totally shocked by what you said about the lack of Head-butt in the Kururunfa kata in Jundokan and Shoreikan, I actually picked up my official Jundokan/OGKK/JKF-Goju-kai Kata book, which is a green Japanese book, if you know it. and there it was, the head-butt, in the bunkai section of the said Kata. Then I thought to myself, surely Toguchi couldn't be so irresponsible and not teach his pupils the head-butt, so I checked out the Shorei-Kan chief instructor, Kushi Sensei, doing the same kata - and yep, sure enough, there was the head-butt. Look, I've been doing this kata for several decades, I've been to the IOGKF, OGKK, Goju-kai, Meibukan, I've been through them all, and NEVER have I heard a legitimate lineage of Goju-Ryu not have that head-butt in Kururunfa. ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE NOT FROM A McDojo?

[@toraguchitoraguchi9154]

@@GojuRyuPhilosopher kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYW0k4OYmLt7e9k here you go, your own chief instructor, look between 0:54-0:56.....slow the video down, you'll see the head-butt (look in the sky move)......

[@GojuRyuPhilosopher]

@@toraguchitoraguchi9154 I'm quite chagrined that you would make the assertion that I might be from a McDojo. As I'm sure you're aware, some teachers teach with different interpretations of kata, and some teach "omote" and "ura" bunkai. I'm willing to accept that my interpretation of Kururunfa may not be correct, and if you could take pictures of the pages in question and email them to me at [e-mail] I would be glad to take that information into account, as it is more than likely that I have incomplete information. For reference, the version of Kururunfa that I learned came from Senseis Kayo Ong and Roy Kamen, the former of whom trained directly from Toguchi Sensei, and the latter of whom is his student. I have received some corrections from other teachers that altered the way I looked at certain techniques, but the core of how I practice Kururunfa is from that lineage. Is this video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYW0k4OYmLt7e9k) the video of Kushi Sensei to which you are referring? If so, I can see how you could interpret that technique as a headbutt, but I believe an equally valid counter argument could be made against that theory. But regardless of your interpretation of that kata, I think it is quite rude to imply that someone's lineage is illegitimate because their interpretation of a technique differs from yours. But it is doubly so when the person in question has sought out instruction from multiple sources. However, I almost always appreciate the insight and information your comments provide, and I'm sure that you are not intending any insult.

[@cademiller9351]

Fun fact: those short, fast snap kicks in atemi Waza were often used to block more powerful kicks from your opponent. They were thrown forward so that the bottom of your foot landed along where your opponent's groin meets his thigh, physically preventing them from throwing the kick they were attempting.

[@7dollarproductions]

I would love to show you Dangerous Waters sometime 🌊

[@bigtimepimpin666]

Kron Gracie said his grandfather was the first to specialize in all aspects of fighting, kicking, punching, grappling etc etc etc etc etc...he needs a dictionary... but AmericateDo's master Ken really did specialize in everything!

[@jedijudoka]

He also said helio perfected gyaku juji jime, which is bogus because we have old hand drawn illustrations showing it’s always been done the same lol

[@alifarrokhfar6228]

💙💙

[@mattonthemoon225]

Wrong comparison. You didn’t really read Kawaishi’s book. Judo self defense is mainly focused on blocking - counter attack and controlling. A total different way from karate style.

[@optimusmaximus9646]

Most judoka can't strike at all, which is a shame. Turning Judo predominantly into a sport and pandering to the whims of the International Olympic Commission, it has lost all its striking capability. Strikes are still in the curriculum and appear in kata, if only in symbolic form, but they have suffered the disuse syndrome (use it or lose it).

[@adamcz3183]

You are one scary looking dude

[@henrysena4173]

Karate is not from japan!!! He is from Ryu kyu and is the son of Wushu. It's not called "Chinese hands" for nothing.

[@gerardhart9052]

First off your comparison is not valid . Judo primarily hits with the earth and mostly uses atemi waza to set up throws or punish from pins. This is very different from relying on strikes for everything as karate mostly does. In the same manner it would not be any better than comparing karate nage waza against judo's. The results are a foregone conclusion. Karate's objective is to land a decisive blow and judo's is to land a throw. It must be realised that almost all the judo being taught is for sport not self defence so illegal strikes carry little importance. If you have someone pinned its easy to go for the eyes, similarly doing so as a feint can cause an instinctive blink or recoil reflex which can be used as an opening for a throw, even though in a stand up striking exchange it would have little chance of being successful at imobilizing your opponent. Judo is actually taught to win medals, impart physical skills, conditioning and a mindset of flexible effiency when dealing with opponents and a caring attitude in physical confrontations. This is not really compatible with mma in which the aim is to cause as much damage to your opponent as possible. Imagine the outcome if judoka started throwing their opponents onto their heads?

[@moehoward8691]

Blah blah blah. Too much talking.