Judo VS Japanese Jujutsu : Why Jigoro Kano is a GENIUS (Part 02)

[@sakissakis7992]

Indeed Kano was a genius. He created a system efficient in practical combat but also a "vehicle" of mental and physical development. Judo is a Budo school and combines all these elements and has modern applications because of the pressure tested techniques. Jujutsu comes from Bujutsu schools and as I know many of these schools or ryu-ha had only katas as a learning tool. Both schools have something to offer:Judo /Budo offers reality/randori and the older schools like Jujutsu/Bujutsu offer the combat mindset and their techniques are a good addition (joint locks, striking techniques, weapons). Great video.

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@justasleepparalysisdemonwi8719]

Love the videos, thank you for the work you put into all of them, I have learned a lot!

[@Chadi]

Thank you very much🙇🏻‍♂️

[@platinumpagoda3079]

Fellow judoka here, just discovered your channel. Loving the vids so far. Nice stuff man.

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@ursamajor5107]

Thank you for your videos. It's great to see a rational, objective analysis of the old 'Judo vs Modern Jujitsu' argument without the idol worship, branding, misleading statements, plagiarism and ideology which is so prevalent. No-one is refuting the contributions that more modern expressions of these arts have made in recent years. On the other hand, it's admirable that you are giving credit where it is due with the original arts.

[@Chadi]

Thank you i truly appreciate it

[@ursamajor5107]

@@Chadi We (your community) appreciate you. Have you ever considered producing any instructional videos?

[@Chadi]

@@ursamajor5107 thank you very much! Maybe when I'm more advanced

[@arrowverse644]

kano sensei is a master, a legend. it’s sad that what he tried to teach, some clubs don’t follow today

[@m5a1stuart83]

True but they keep the spirit of Judo even they dont follow the traditional way.

[@Chadi]

I agree

[@jiujitsuboy]

In gentle mutual learning?

[@dazzleyd]

My sensei avidly follows Kano teaching he based the whole jiu-jitsu syllabus I learn from on kano techniques

[@johnreidy2804]

@@dazzleyd My Sensei does not follow Kano's teachings at all. He is a total renegade and a showoff.

[@rustyshackleford735]

I love getting to listen to these vids while I make dinner. I'm gonna give a bit if a different look at the early bbj being judo argument: yes, I agree that it was simply judo in technical terms, but it wasn't judo and would've been wrong for the Gracie's to call it judo, because the "way" of judo wasn't present, the philosophy, education and structured carriculum weren't present, making it more of a branch of jujitsu.

[@Chadi]

Great point! I'm glad i make your dinner preparation experience better

[@brandonshukuri6487]

No, it isn't a branch of jujutsu. It shares virtually nothing in common other than a few basic techniques and concepts. Even calling Judo a style of jujutsu is ridiculous. Judo is not a war art, it's a sport. Japanese Judo or Brazilian Judo would stand no chance on the battlefield. Fucking christ martial arts has become pure ideology at this point.

[@brifthV]

“Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself.” Jigoro Kano

[@dianecenteno5275]

Great video and good research as always! Having BB'S in both Jujitsu (Japanese / Western) and Judo, I can agree that Kano did a great job with his contribution in the evolution of Jujutsu. I love the practical combat applications of Jujitsu and when you combine them with the transitions and increased grappling dynamics of Judo, you greatly increase your overall abilities! Nearly every Western Jujitsu system has done this and you can see the evolution over the traditional Jujutsu systems. This is especially true in terms of how we train (live sparring, modern applications etc.) It is also true in terms of education and teaching methods. Kano applied classroom type methods which can be translated and used by a wider audience over the old Jujutsu " do as I do and dont ask why" methods of teaching. Thank you for sharing and keep up the good work!

[@Projectdarksource]

How did you guys spar with Traditional Jujutsu techniques? Was there wristlocks and throws using wristlocks sparred?

[@m5a1stuart83]

@@Projectdarksource in Daito Ryu maybe yes and they usually dont throw so there is no need to learn ukemi.

[@Chadi]

Thank you very much Diane🙇🏻‍♂️

[@dianecenteno5275]

@@Projectdarksource You can go to youtube and look up ISJA / sport jujitsu. There are some videos from the 90's and some modern ones with a few from other organizations. It will give you an idea of what can be done in real time or close to it (The European rules are different). Wrist locks can be done, just with caution, same as ankle, knee and arm locks. Ernie Boggs was a pioneer in this sport and has a few videos as well. Some people call it MMA LITE.😁. It allows you to incorporate striking, Judo, some Jujutsu, BJJ etc.

[@Projectdarksource]

@@dianecenteno5275 thank you very much for your response. This really does help me when I want to train in Jujutsu.

[@stevepanda1716]

Thanks for this Chadi. Lots of interesting things here. Kano did not invent kuzushi or kuzushi no ri. Hachinosuke Fukuda taught it, but in a different form, which included more mental, metaphysical, and spiritual aspects. Fukuda was, of course, one of Kano's teachers. He was master (licensed?) in several ryu and was the official champion of the emperor and instructor to the emperor's family. I was told that he had a sign near his dojo declaring that he was the best fighter in the region, and inviting any and all challenges. Apparently, a big part of his ability to overcome others was his concept of kuzushi, which included shishin or mental gaps. Judo kuzushi was often taught according to this older approach, and was included in lectures (koza) and teaching by such teachers as Aida and Nagano and others. He also was a master of a sword-fighting ryuha, and as such incorporated upright posture. Ryu that included sword used upright posture to maintain riai and common posture and footwork with the swordwork. Okuriashiharai is used against a sword fighter's okuriashi, or trailing foot step. Randori was also used in other ryu, but the waza and the kata were considered more important. Kodokan also used more than one form of randori. While she did not participate in competitive Judo, Keiko Fukuda did participate in various kinds of randori, including some that were very rough and tumble, including some forms of buai randori. Jujutsu technique names ranged from things like hiza guruma to yume no uchi (throwing in a dream). Kano's name conventions made much more sense and were more useful. His Gokyo no Waza, which is 40 techniques, 5 x 8, are more of a structural study of throwing, and not the mokuroku of the throwing techniques of the school. Apparently he had begun naming ne-waza techniques according to certain organizing principles, but never completed it. For example, you have a series of locks whose names involve things like Ude Hishigi Ude Gatame, Ude Hishigi Ashi Gatama, Ude Hishigi Hiza Gatame, etc. Various coils (garami), twists (hinieri), reversals (gaeshi), etc. I sure would have liked to have seen where he was going with that. OK. Too long.

[@Chadi]

Not too long at all, yes i did mention kuzushi was based on his experience with his teacher and kito ryu has kuzushi but different. Thank you so much for this insight

[@AaronHai]

Regarding the mental gaps. I studied Shima Jitsu in Brooklyn under Master Steve from Long Island, our emphasis was on Kuzushi and Mental tricks. Are you familiar with Shima? it's supposedly an island 🏝️ in japan.

[@stevepanda1716]

@@AaronHai Don’t know your group. The word “shima” means “island” in Japanese. “Fukushima” means “Fuku Island”, etc.

[@PhilosophyofArtandScience]

great discussion. thank you for taking the time to compare, especially re: kuzushi.

[@adam5words688]

I've been really digging your channel. And I study mainly Budo Taijutsu (not with Bujinkan though). My sensei is a 3rd dan in Judo as well, and Masaaki Hatsumi was also a Judoka before he studied with Takematsu. My point to all of this is Taijutsu is mainly koryu jutaijutsu, dakentaijutsu (the striking aspect) and koshi jutsu. I don't know if it's because of the teachers I mentioned but there are just so, ssso many similarities. So, your channel is the sh%$, I love the historical analysis, the in depth dives on techniques and comparisons you make. Keep it up, you truly have a passion and teach us so much out here in the world. There. I said it;)

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much Adam

[@tommytaylor2799]

I like the videos. I do think it is important to understand leglocks. I think I would rather know how to apply them and never have to use it than to be caught in a situation I need it but I do not know how to utilize them.

[@Chadi]

I agree

[@gulfcoastjiujitsuacademy8620]

Thank you for your time and dedication to spreading the history of Judo and its predecessors. My understanding of the original Gracie family Jiu-Jitsu is that they definitely had a code of conduct and a significant amount of philosophy and principles that may or may not be consistent with those in Judo. I feel that your generalization of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu can be potentially misleading at times. There is a significant amount of information on the way that Helio Gracie conducted himself in regards to being a fantastic leader within the Gracie clan. Thank you so much for all that you do.

[@Chadi]

Thank you so much i really appreciate it.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

"Assault of Rufino Dos Santos A dispute between Gracie's brother Carlos and Manoel Rufino dos Santos worsened after Dos Santos won a public bout against Carlos. Subsequently the conflict then moved to the newspapers, where Rufino criticized Carlos's skill and dismissed his jiu-jitsu credentials, leading Carlos, George and Hélio Gracie to assault him in front of his teaching place at the Tijuca Tênis Clube on October 18. They hit him repeatedly with a steel box and immobilized him for Carlos to apply an armlock, dislocating Rufino's shoulder so badly that it needed surgery.[2][5] The brothers were arrested and were convicted to two years and a half in prison for assault, as well as for trying to run away during the arrest, but their connections to President of Brazil Getúlio Vargas granted them a pardon. [2] " honorable family it is not, just ego,

[@joatanpereira4272]

Dude, he was a pathological liar. And remember that there's the Fadda lineage, which conserves respect, honor and all the other things the Gracies don't.

[@henrikg1388]

What principles did Helio come up with? Street fighting principles? Vale Tudo challenge matches?

[@dianecenteno5275]

@@mongolchiuud8931 Absolutely true from my research. Should have been in prison.

[@rwh0778]

Great video, very thought provoking. Thank you for posting.

[@Chadi]

Thank you Jeff🙇🏻‍♂️

[@aressp]

It is a fact that Itsutsu-no-kata originates from Tenjin Shinyo Ryu. Kuzushi and shizentai appear in koryu before Judo. Concerning randori, I believe that Judo was the result of the growing emphasis on randori and not the opposite. Judo had to win its reputation through fights against capable fighters who were experienced in free grappling matches. On the other hand, even koryu schools that appear to include randori, propably added it rather recently. So they also followed the trend - the need for free grappling where Judo finaly prevailed. Always that’s just my opinion.

[@Chadi]

But in the ase of Hideichi Nagaoka (Kito Ryu) when he came to the kodokan he was oblivious to shizen hon tai.

[@aressp]

The case of Nagaoka is interesting indeed. Some thoughts: I do not know about Kito Ryu. In Tenjin Shinyo Ryu however, there is ichi monji no kamae (something like jigotai) and chokuristu that is a form of shizentai. Chokuritsu is mainly with closed legs like standing at attention (so officialy there is not something like shizen hon tai). During kata we use both shizen and jigotai stances, the stances are natural (maybe a bit theatrical exaggerated). In kata I am sure that other koryu use also something like shizen hon tai. In any case, kata are not randori. So I dont know, in randori they might used only jigotai. As we can see from Mataemon Tanabe the kata of Fusen Ryu had nothing to do with the way he was competinng (ne-waza strategies). Concerning kuzushi: it is clearly there. You can see it in many kata and it is mentioned many times in Gokui Kyoju Zukai book. Sometimes instead of the word "kuzushi", the text says something like "disheart the opponent".

[@henrikg1388]

In this video you are pretty much stating what I have been saying for a long time, including in comments to your other videos. So I will just say this was great.

[@Chadi]

Thank you 🙇🏻‍♂️

[@jacobnuesca7181]

You really have a cool voice and I really enjoy the historical videos you show!

[@Chadi]

Thank you Jacob

[@OGFITNESS]

Goddamn!!! Im learnings so much, im gonna spark arguments on my channel with all this new found knowledge!! Loving it!!!

[@Chadi]

Hahaha I'm glad

[@chryktus22]

Where is the link for Part 1? Enjoyed your video, thank you.

[@devriestown]

What do you think of no gi judo? With the same rules as gi judo? Why does judo not have a gi and no gi division?

[@Chadi]

Why not

[@devriestown]

Exactly why do they not ? Is judo just gi all over the world? It wou6be a good topic video to bring up I think it could help judo grow.

[@Chadi]

@@devriestown freestyle judo has no gi

[@SoldierDrew]

@@devriestownNoGi Judo existed in prewar Judo. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXOtZGmjireSac0

[@aasserelzoghby6781]

I think it is because jigoro kano invented judo with big lapels in mind so it would be against the purpose Plus no gi judo will only make a huge difference in ne waza

[@beskeptic]

Exactly Chadi! You do understand that Kano's decision were based by Seiryoku zenyo and Jita Kyoei. Bjj people dont get that and think Kano was not skillful on katame-waza, like he was lazy or some nonsense. Today Judo do suffer by a spotivization that has nothing to do with Seiryoku zenyo and Jita Kyoei, but that is not what Kano-shihan had in mind. Judo just has a completely different objective, its a way of self improvement to better contribute to society. Kosen judo and bjj on the other hand dont care about that and was born from a aggressive sportivization of 1x1 duel cause people thought that was more effective for a fight. But spot is not a real fight. In a real fight people dont stop to watch their friend beeing hurt, you need to be on the move to get out of danger and Kano said that to Tsunetane. And by the way, not learn ukemi and nage waza because you are scared is just lame. Beside that, I really admire when bjj people knows their history, like Drysdale, and understand the value of Judo and nage waza to be a more well-rouded grappler.

[@Chadi]

Agreed! Thank you

I love Kano

I love Judo

[@isalehyan]

I haven’t studied his works in as much depth as you have. But from my general impression, he seems to have become more focused on philosophy/morality later in life. Early kodokan seemed to be more brutal. Thoughts?

[@Chadi]

No not necessarily, he was always an academic, the same year he founded the kodokan was the same year he started teaching in school and invest in moral/physical/intellectual educations

[@joatanpereira4272]

Have you done a video on the Fadda Jiu Jitsu?

[@Chadi]

Yes kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGfTqX-mnadrY6s

[@hasanc1526]

Fadda was taught by the Gracies contrary to recent claims

[@joatanpereira4272]

@@hasanc1526 No, Oswaldo Fadda was taught by Luiz França in the Brazilian Navy

[@hasanc1526]

@@joatanpereira4272 not true. Roberto Pedreira has debunked this claim and Robert Drysdale has also verified

[@joatanpereira4272]

@@hasanc1526 link?

[@rashidmartialarts9513]

Excellent work 😀

[@Chadi]

Thank you Rashid

[@nikolaosmandamandiotis8970]

The katas or any other choreographed movement set is made to preserve tradition that's its true use . I can argue about the leglocks usefulness that it's probably a good way of attacking ppl with very good guard game and on their backs and it fits perfectly after a good judo ippon to finish a fight, or from self defence perspective you throw someone down break his ankle and then run away. Jigoro kano's genius was to catalogue the techniques and the katas from theoretical and academic point of view so future generations can study but also by learning some stuff from the west he implemented safe randori which is a way of preasure testing as a scientist with respect for the others wellbeing .

[@Chadi]

You're right! But a great ippon should usually end it all.

[@nikolaosmandamandiotis8970]

@@Chadi Well man I wanted to say this. By learning judo you don't only learn how to throw someone, thats only the first and easy part, when you perfect your technique you gain access to a choice of how much damage you will inflict with the throw, you can just throw someone so he feels he lost or you can injure even kill if necessary. judo is a noble art giving you the freedom of choise.

[@Azur_Filip]

Hey Chadi, educated people know that BJJ came from Judo but what do you think of modern BJJ ?. You can see that it still has its roots in Judo but don't you think that it evolved to a point where its actually distinguishable, with its transitions and catch wrestling biases ? .

[@Chadi]

I did address that towards the end, about the no gi and leg locks game.

[@Azur_Filip]

@@Chadi Ah yes kind of tipsy, I enjoy your videos keep up the good work mate.

[@Chadi]

@@Azur_Filip Thank you very much

[@Azur_Filip]

@@Chadi btw Chadi, we started seeing, leg lock game to be much more imporant than it were to be. People like Garry Tonnon and Ryan Hall is rocking the game of the MMA world, what do you think about it ?

[@Chadi]

@@Azur_Filip It's an evolution for sure

[@tmusic591]

Awesome stuff Chadi! What would be some books that you recommend? Most that I find are about modern sports Judo.

[@Chadi]

I recommend to check Eric Shahan, he translates old Jujutsu books, they're available on Amazon

[@tmusic591]

@@Chadi Looking like exactly what I have been looking for! Thanks a lot!

[@Shoeshido]

Instrumental?

[@ahmedb2559]

Thank you !

[@yevgeniyzharinov7473]

What does chadi think of Camarillo Jiu Jitsu?

[@Chadi]

Dave is pretty cool

[@Quach7]

Jean Claude Van Damme is a genius. He popularized kumite, kumite, kumite!

[@Chadi]

Also yes

[@yooaab]

You should have a discussion with Joe rogan.

[@Chadi]

That would be fun

[@fabiomari3023]

😍😍😍beautiful

[@hoituthien]

A di đà phật... 🙇🙇🙇🙇🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@Chadi]

🙇🏻‍♂️

[@jtilton5]

Hi just wondering if you have seen any of Nishio Sensei's style of Aikido if you haven't here is a link to his first demonstration video kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2WpnqyiZ9iLrdE You might find it intetesting

[@Chadi]

I love Nishio Sensei

[@omardiangeloarteaga4875]

Do you think in other countries and martial arts like pankration, Indian wrestling etc didnt exist a concept like kuzushi?? Lmao

[@Chadi]

Non of these arts you mentioned wore a gi

[@omardiangeloarteaga4875]

@@Chadi doesnt matter the concept kuzushi would be There. I give credit to Kano Jiu jutsu or judo but I think you overcredit in a lot of ways judo. Before judo all was worse anda after judo everything was invented. Lmao

[@fgsf9]

@@omardiangeloarteaga4875 could u name arts from.india n the words they use for kuzuchi???👀 give me a hint🙏🏽

[@omardiangeloarteaga4875]

@@Chadi gi or without gi the concept was There 100%.

[@omardiangeloarteaga4875]

@@fgsf9 doesnt matter the word. Do you think the Japanese invented the concept lmao 😂😆😁

[@dadthelad]

You talk about Judo as if the modern Judo is the same as Kano's Judo. It isn't. The modern Judo competition ruleset has rendered ne waza to a neglected back seat, the same way that the modern BJJ competition ruleset has rendered nage waza to a neglected back seat. You crap on as if Judo is superior than BJJ for self defence because of this. Rubbish. If you are serious about self defence, you are a fool if you don't train all of Judo and/or wrestling, AND BJJ, AND a striking art. Realistically, if you come up against an untrained person, it doesn't matter which of most martial arts you have (as long as it includes randori), you will wipe the floor with them. But if you're coming up against a trained person, it has been proved over and over again by the UFC, and by the ADCC, that Judo is the poor man's BJJ. Yes, it is a very nice complement to the other techniques, but BJJ is completely, utterly, and undeniably, king. If you really want to push self defence, then you need to be pushing multiple arts, because Judo by itself is definitely not complete, nor superior. You've actually mentioned in a previous vid that Judo guys have done well in grappling matches against BJJ guys, but what you are turning a blind eye to, is the obvious fact that those Judo guys have either cross trained BJJ, or spend some serious time training Judo ne waza (and let's be serious, Judo ne waza and BJJ ne waza are basically the same thing). They will also most certainly have trained leg locks, because if they hadn't, they wouldn't have a chance in hell of defending against them, and would lose the comp in 15s flat. Oh no, they are banned in Judo, so where did they learn those hey?! Oh no, they are too dangerous. Rubbish. See this vid for a wake up call on that one kzbin.info/www/bejne/rX7WiqOEht6Yo5o

[@joeguillaume296]

I respectfully disagree. This is a false narrative. There's a lot of bias in judo community. Gjj is not judo. All you have to do is read helio Gracie's master text and compare it to judo syllabus. There's similar techniques but so what. There's similar techniques in all grappling styles. You can say it's kano jiujitsu but that would be false as well because kano didn't invent jiujitsu. Bjj is a completely different animal with influences from many grappling styles. Gjj is heavily self defense focused which is clearly less seen in judo. Judo has no nogi practice and is gi dependent. Bjj or gjj can be practiced gi or nogi. This changes everything. Show me where jigoro kano practiced no gi? The sports are different as well. Even the philosophy is different. It's hypocritical to praise kano for banning leg locks then be judgmental of bjjs newaza focus which is clearly safer than taichiwaza randori. I agree kano was an innovator in martial art history but time has passed him and his contributions are clearly outdated.

[@Chadi]

You're clearly misrepresenting my argument, i specifically said the old scholl bjj WITH GI is judo never said no gi is judo in fact i said the no gi is an evolution on its own (leg locks game et i dedicated the last part talking about this evolution), when it comes to sparring principles and techniques it's 100% the same minus a few footlocks, Kano died in 1938 a knee injury was horrible at his time and a career ender, and yes bjj has a complete different philosophy, it's clearly shown but the old bjj with gi as an expression it's like the Kosen schools, and when it comes to self defense all the drills and exercises come from old katas nothing new, i have Rickson's entire course, it's all from kata.

[@joeguillaume296]

@@Chadi This is why I said read gracie master text. It's not kosen. 80% is self defense standup techniques. The rest is a little newaza. No takedowns or throws. Judo is takedown dominant so how is it judo where is the self defense in kosen?

[@Chadi]

@@joeguillaume296 i will give it a read, but i said in sparring the old school expression is like Kosen

[@joeguillaume296]

@@Chadi there's a huge difference. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpazc4qHmc55p7s

[@SoldierDrew]

NoGi Judo goes way back to PreWar Judo. Evidence: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXOtZGmjireSac0