The INSANE Pyro DPS Dilemma...

[@Juice-chan]

it all happened so fast out of nowhere, when you actually stop to think about it ZZZ 2nd channel; www.youtube.com/@juiceisontheloose go watch my streams, we're currently working on rinascita 100% over the next few weeks! www.twitch.tv/juicechanyt come join my discord so that we can discuss the insane pyro DPS flood together discord.gg/KRtUFgApaJ then follow my twt pls i post when i'm alive twitter.com/JuiceChanYT also, support me if you'd like; ko-fi.com/juicechanyt

[@Randomguyno69]

If Hoyo is gonna make more Pyro DPS anyway, just make a Cryo Yelan

[@komgoo4974]

That would prolly be the most broken thing if it gets released.

[@smallpatrick6816]

The world isn’t ready for this

[@cynicalmandate]

Cryo Furina... Yelan can only boost NA

[@Juice-chan]

citlali's already a step in the right direction!

[@clown2005]

Make hutao great again? ( She always was )

[@guiscardaddams8745]

I seriously think Hoyo is done with Pyro DPS units, what better way to conclude the archetype than the Pyro Archon herself?

[@kenpachizaraki4184]

They can't afford to powercreep the pyro archon so soon. It sets a bad tone for the infamous value of getting archons. She's will keep her spot as pyro dps for a long time.

[@Juice-chan]

i hope so man, please hoyo give us a BREAK

[@geebeepman]

I also think genshin is done with releasing new pyro dps. that is until the teyvat chapter ends and a new one begins.

[@dongarippo7279]

@Juice-chan Fire is a fun element?? Look at what? dendro? No CC or anything, just numbers with numbers called different things? That element was a mistake. Cryo and water as freeze, fire electro has pushbacks, etc etc.. I mean.. Yeah? Anyway, these 4 has value to me, cryo hydro and pyro electro.. the rest I don't even care half as much a bout, if I was all about numbers then sure.. So gaive more fire, cryo, hydro and electro

[@JacobJahjasadji]

​@@geebeepman yeah, I feel like they dump all of the pyro DPSes before mavuika's release, so that they don't have to release anymore after Mavuika, and she can keep Her spot as the best Pyro DPS. at least for a long time

[@LelouSMash]

No mention of Klee, even Yanfei got mentioned...RIP💀

[@SavageRodent]

I didn't hear Dehya get mentioned either. There really are a lot of pyro DPSs.

[@ShinjiMatsuba]

Low effort video just glazing the pyro archon 😂

[@eternalblizzard70]

The video was mainly surrounded around premium and high damaging pyro DPS. Yanfie is good but she is out shined by the number of DPS we have and klee is more supportive with her kit than a main DPS so nobody counts her when talking about DPS stuff

[@JacobJahjasadji]

​@@SavageRodent dehya is not a main DPS, even if she can be one

[@Chestyfriend]

Within 20 seconds she says there weren't too many crazy options pre-fontaine.. sis, pyro was nothing but on-field selfish dps character with like 3 off-field, and all but 1 of those were 4*, with that 1 5* being dehya, freaking DEHYA. Garbage take video 100%.

[@cankurt1696]

My Optinion to the Pyro DPSses are: It's Getting Out of Hand, Now are Eight of them.

[@Juice-chan]

literally like, other chars pls

[@tetsuclaw]

I would personally love to see more pyro and cryo supports in the game. Imagin having a cryo Yelan for example.

[@BonJoeviMontana]

All I want is a Robin/Astra Yao attack buffer. Instead of power creeping the pyro dps maybe power creep the circle impact kid.

[@P.X.R.P.L.E]

I mean she is the archon of pyro and fire is known for dmg or destruction so I assumed she would be a main dps.

[@giorgostrim3709]

And my ass was hoping for a totally off field unit with Bennet buff without the circle. Basically a five star Bennet

[@inigorafaelr.bernales4786]

THIS, Nation of War (Not with each other, why on earth did people think in-fighting would be the main theme of Natlan) and Archon of the most damage centric Element in the game, of course she would be a DPS.

[@Jaxv3r]

​@inigorafaelr.bernales4786 people probably forget that pyro as an element is most centered around big ATK damage not support, but kinda blame Hoyoverse for making the two best pyro characters in the game as a buffer and as an off fielder, Arlecchino and Hu Tao can be done with any other main DPS elemental attacker.

[@jojolyneee]

​@inigorafaelr.bernales4786 the other archon aren't dps so it's not out of the realm for ppl to think she would be a support. And she should've.

[@Juice-chan]

that's fair but its still funny how many we've gotten

[@kajex7589]

That's the thing, she's the archon. I think Hoyo understands they can't directly power creep Pyro dps for good long while now, I think that's why we got Arlechino such a short time before. She had a narrow window before Natlan where Pyro dps would peak, but we will shift meta focus going into Shneznaya and probably see a reassurance of freeze or finally some focus on physical. This is Pyro's heyday, it will be a while before we see another Pyro that isn't 4 star or finally some Bennet power creep with a pure support Pyro 5 star.

[@p3ter67]

We could also get xblanque who is the first pyro archon that could also be a dps that power creeps mavuika

[@kajex7589]

@p3ter67 Hoyo doesn't have a habit of releasing dead characters as playable... I think I'm safe. R.I.P. Captain.

[@C00lRanch]

@@p3ter67 Never say never but after this patch I don't think it'll be likely.

[@umarojoga5876]

Watch us getting more pyro dps during shenznaya bruh

[@Juice-chan]

NOOOOOOOO NO MORE

[@StormCrusher94]

Well we need to keep warm in the frosty Tundra

[@Kitaros_Anxious]

I love watching juice as a Lyney main, the only youtuber that remembers he exist fr

[@OlBlO2l2lllZ]

I agree with the Pyro DPS situation. We still do need a Pyro support that can out value Bennett. They already did a copy paste with Xingqui and Yelan. How come they can't do that to Bennett?

[@amphiptered.5355]

Free me from the circle, Hoyo!

[@JacobJahjasadji]

I had this idea that the reason why they released so much Pyro Main DPSes, is becausr they gotta sell them, before making the strongest pyro DPS. Like if Arle is released after Mavuika, Arle's power scaling must be insanely high, and that would be powercreeping the archon. I hope, that they planned to do this from the start and now that the pyro archon is here, she will be the last pyro main DPS. I mean it kinda makes sense, pyro is the only element that has only has Main DPSes as their 5 star characters. Even Dehya can be a Main DPS if you try hard enough (lmao), so i think from the start they had planned it : 1. Anemo : CC (we havent got any stronger CC characters than Venti) 2. Geo : Shield (Its obvious Zhongli's shield is the beefiest, despite him providing less for everyone) 3. Raiden : Battery (Raiden is the best battery in the game. Not only because of her burst, but also because she buffs elemental burst damage, and provides quite a good amount of energy particles) 4. Nahida : Application (no one grants off-field dendro application as good as Nahida. I would even argue Nahida's dendro application is better than all of the archon's elemental application. Just by holding her skill, you applied dendro to 8 opponents at once (if there are 8 opponents) and she is a catalyst user too, so obviously easy application 5. Furina : HP Manipulation (As Hydro has always been manipulating their HP, or has something to do with HP, Furina comes and manipulates everyone's HP. She can heal and drain your HP the easiest in the game, and its team-wide too. This opens up the ability for everyone to use marechausse hunter. (Obviously Furina's the best buffer but that can change in the future.) And now Mavuika. Main DPSes should be very easy to powercreep and since Pyro is the element of Powercreep, its quite hard to make future DPS characters good without powercreeping the archon. So i think they did 2 measures to prevent powercreeping the archon (at least for a long time) : 1. Release all the DPSes before her release, and make all of them weaker than her. 2. Make the archon's kit flexible, so that she can still be an off-fielder when she's out of meta. But this is just my theory. At least we know for the entirety of 5.0, mavuika will NOT be powercrept

[@jackrabbit1704]

Even if Mavuika is powercrept by another pyro DPS because Hoyo has gone mad, then at least she can do some off-field DPS as a sub DPS (which is what I was more-so hoping she'd be, but I digress).

[@JacobJahjasadji]

@jackrabbit1704 yeahh

[@Definitely4lex]

Me and my C1R1 Hu Tao are choosing to ignore this silly pyro arms race 👀

[@Not_obligated2care]

Same bruh I have C3 R1 hu Tao and she’s by far the most easiest and efficient to use. I have Arlecchino & Mavuika as well but they hold me back in certain situations. Plus I don’t have Citlali for my Mavuika so she’s worse than she should be.

[@therealoskargd7428]

Okay we get it bruh ​@Not_obligated2care

[@asakayosapro]

how do yall practice dash cancel till its like the back of the hand this is from someone who has Hu Tao but also has Lyney and Mavuika, and has plans to get Arlecchino because i'd rather have more variety for restrictive BS like imaginerfyou theater

[@latinachan4368]

I think you're just more used to hutao since you used her for a long time​@@Not_obligated2care

[@yatanogarasu]

Mavuika should be the pinnacle point for Pyro DPS, no more for the time being. Unless a new Pyro Sovereign to take over Benny's place.

[@Opti-Miser]

Im the hu tao holdout lol, furina made her stronger, so i didnt grab lyney, xianyun made her stronger so i still didnt build diluc, arle is just bigger hu tao so i skipped, and i skipped mavuika on main to get her on my kinich alt. My hu Tao stays winning and never fails to comfy clear any content

[@SerssVlog]

The bias againts hutao is crazy here

[@Opti-Miser]

@SerssVlog yeah I think they just stopped playing hu tao and assumed she fell off when she actually still goes hard despite getting crept by taller pyro ladies

[@Not_obligated2care]

Same!

[@THESocialJusticeWarrior]

I skipped Lenny and Hau Tau because I didn't like their kit or their looks. So, now I have Arlo and Mav and I couldn't be happier.

[@Juice-chan]

awesome man! :D

[@Not_obligated2care]

I literally have all of them except Lenny , Mavuika is annoying the heck out of me right now ngl, so I just went back to playing my C3 Hu Tao. I really hate Mavuikas weekly boss material as well, talent levels 6/7/ 9 btw) Arlecchino is great but sometimes she holds me back in certain situations. Hu Tao is by far the most efficient & easiest to use pyro dps I have.

[@THESocialJusticeWarrior]

@@Not_obligated2care I found an easy off-field team for Mav's dragon boss fight: EM-Raiden, Furina, Mav and Bizhu. You stay on field with Bizhu spamming his E and Q and the boss just melts with hyperbloom and burning damage. Use any burst to i-frame big boss attacks. Personally, I cannot stand that Hu Tao looks like a little boy and needs a jump cancel or C1 - but you do you!

[@sundial3914]

Preach it Juice... hope they actually listen.

[@charles5240]

as a person who loves fire as a power in general i'm happy as hell and if they really don't continue this trend then mavuika was the best character to end it on. Now even though i'm not a true ice power lover i do think cryo is in dire need of a character that can preform in the play style like arle, hu tao and mavuika. personally since citlali is mostly a cryo support i think colombina would be perfect for this role if she's actually cryo.

[@Dyzinel]

Hey Juice, Spiral Abyss ends in less than an hour, but I just now acquired the last remaining star of every Chamber of Floor 12. Naturally, Mavuika was in every team, but... So was Diona. Then you may think "yeah, so what, her and Rosaria are the common Citlali replacements", but the thing is, she wasn't in the Mavuika team. She was in the Hyper Bloom team at C3, lol. Your video back then saying Diona is the worst 4 stars gave me strength to complete this challenge. I still greatly enjoy your videos, but that one was... -Random F2P on KZbin

[@MeganeKoEx]

Hoyo's Beloved child and META player: Bennett...

[@Receptacle64]

i really dont care about the characters element. for me thats mostly visual differences. the kit is what actually dictates what teams you will use and what characters you will pair with them. even though arle, hutao and mavuika are all pyro dpses they all ideally use completely different teams and have different gameplay.

[@chrono732]

I agree with this. No idea why complain there's too many pyro DPS when they all fit into different teams...

[@Xotwod-t8k]

Not only pyro.... She is best dps in whole game her single target is highest in game and aoe on par with neuvie .... She deals 1 million nuke followed by 300k melts ca's ... I have only one word for mav "BROKEN"

[@luckasneo2089]

Lyney was never on top. Hes clearly a bottom.

[@alexsjarif]

Its actually crazy that hu tao got to be the best pyro dps (for most people cuz they couldn't be bothered with liney. I know u like him juice but let it be) for 3 years until she finally got dethrowned by arle. And arle couldn't even keep her crown until her first rerun 😭😭😭😭

[@Juice-chan]

nah man, lyney is WAY better than hu-tao, esp after furina, its not even close. arle numbers before we had arle, this has nothing to do with me liking him, hu-tao is genuienly just a lot worse than him & its not even close, look up vape runs. he's not even one of my favourites this is just the truth in terms of his DMG output, moment that 4.0 dropped HT was cooked, 4.2 only further dug her grave its more like lyney & arle got killed off at the same time by mavuika

[@alexsjarif]

@Juice-chan juice i know u like liney and liney in terms of speedrunning is indeed way way better than hu tao ever was even pre furina. But looking at ur own background clips and considering that he needs more skills to play well. For MOST players hu tao was just easier and potentially better considering she didn't need a shielder (she can dodge more ez) and she wasn't heavely tied to bennet cirkel. Obv thats just my opinion and we do atleast agree that mavuika powercrept arle by a noticeable margin atleast

[@clown2005]

​@@alexsjarif Don't bother i already have had this conversation with her a long time ago she refuses to agree.

[@alexsjarif]

@clown2005 i also had it a couple times with her 😭 but the points she makes aren't wrong on paper and in speedruns liney is genuinly quit a bit better than hu tao. Its just in practice its not the case. But what i find strange is that mualani is on paper quit a bit better than neuvilette but juice never talks abt mualani? Like yeah she is clunky but so is liney so why does she defend liney like that but mualani not? 😭 (I don't think mualani is better btw)

[@clown2005]

@alexsjarif true. I already have an agreement with her saying i will always believe hutao to be a better pyro Carry than lyney and you are free to say Lyney is better because at the end of the day does it really matter. ( Besides the fact she has an audience and i don't)

[@chrono732]

There's no issue with having too many Pyro DPS. This is due to each respective unit's kit and how they fit into teams. We would have a problem IF each newer unit can replace the former in their team comp, but with how their kit is built, they can't. If you still think it's a problem, it's just all in your head.

[@feelsgoodman9737]

We need more multi element and flying characters like Chasca. I am looking forward to Columbina since she has wings.

[@Marc-w1f5x]

I hate all the flying characters so far because you waste time getting off and on the ground to switch to other characters.

[@ChrisJones-lw8ss]

I wonder if Mavuika will be the last pyro dps we'll have for a long time.

[@asakayosapro]

Since Nod-Krai is gonna be next (no idea when exactly but it will be after lantern rite), its definitely gonna shift to cryo stuff soon Shenhe on chronicled is just the *calm before the freezing blizzard storm that is approaching*

[@longvu3540]

I never had a Pyro DPS until Mavuika and I am loving her!

[@Wynvol]

I can't wait for the new pyro main DPS in the next couple patches!

[@MK0DarkSpartan853]

Nice analysis, I want to say that it was quite fast the release between all four characters, and mostly Arlechinno and Mavuika being top tier. But I have to say that you missed one key detail... Did we all forgot that Chevy was also released? I know she's not a DPS, but she revitalized the Overload reaction that might as well lead to Pyro and Electro DPS to a more niche team... (She at least deserves a mention...)

[@monikaaaax3]

I saw a comment somewhere saying hoyo made a mistake making mavuika a main dps, bc they would never be able to release another pyro dps. All the pyro 5* i can remember are supposed to be DPS characters. There were already too many. Off the top of my head, diluc, yoimiya, lyney, hu tao, arlecchino and klee. What do we even need this many for??

[@paulolugo7447]

Her being a DPS makes the most sense lore wise, she’s one of the strongest characters in Teyvat & the archon of the nation of war. Would’ve been really silly to make her a support. The archon of fire being the strongest fire DPS also makes sense.

[@monikaaaax3]

@@paulolugo7447 ofc, ofc, it's just maybe they shouldn't have made SO many pyro dps characters that would quickly fall into obscurity one after the other and in the long run few people will pull for them :'D Mavuika being a DPS totally makes sense, though, no arguing on that :D

[@ISMythix]

Plenty of ppl have already pulled hutao, diluc, arle (even tho she hasn't had a rerun yet) even yoimiya got a decent amount of pulls

[@kay5676]

An insane pyro dps released during pyro nation release. Crazy.

[@Borderlines]

The only reason I decided to flush my saved up gems for Mavuika is because she is soooo good for reverse melt Rosaria. If they'd ever release another Pyro unit, I'm hoping for a healer I can probably let Bennet get some well deserved rest

[@rakshasza7348]

how can you mention xianyun working with diluc and not a hutao with xianyun arguably has more utility due to plunge aoe than a single target clunky lyney

[@YourNightmarewashere]

Maybe because the point was sheer damage output, not utility?

[@rakshasza7348]

@YourNightmarewashere utility and/or ease of play do in fact reflect on how good a dps is

[@SerssVlog]

Treating hutao like is so much worse than liney and arle is incredible bias, like your bias is crazy

[@Marz333]

Maybe not much better but they are quite better Lyney clears in speedruns and arle clears her in dps why is that so hard to believe 😂

[@Not_obligated2care]

@@Marz333 Hu Tao does as well? I mean unless some of these people have MID builds but otherwise I do not see the point people are trying to make. But I totally understand not likening Hu Tao & her gameplay at first I hated Hu Tao and told myself I would never get her lmao, now she’s C3R1.

[@Goatkusun]

@@Not_obligated2care trust me, lyney play style will make hutao gameplay look so easy 💀

[@calvin659]

@@Goatkusun Sounds like a trash unit then.

[@AbominableDr.Phibes]

I am reluctant to get a new Pyro DPS when they get released. Hu Tao was my first limited 5 star. I would never bench her just to get the shiny new Arle or Mavuika. I did get Mavuika, but only for off-field on Cinder City set for Mualani & Kinich... I got C5 Lyney though, I just like him very deeply and he's my "Amber replacement" lol

[@jojolyneee]

Idk why hoyo doesnt understand we want a 5 star replacement for bennett not another pyro dps

[@Sirindilable]

I can argue, we have too little. Day 1 player and Diluc is my only pyro DPS (who i never use ofc). Because Hu Tao i do not like, Liny is too controversial, Yoimiya is too clunky, and Mavika and Arlecc are not fitting my visual tastes either. We need more. Much more.

[@alexabaxter3355]

You can’t say that without also saying what you are looking for in a pyro dps

[@ISMythix]

W trolling

[@Sirindilable]

@ Ofc. All post about "not enough pyro DPSs" My tastes are simple - i like feminine girls (like Ayaka) and intelligent men (like Zhongli/Nvlt) As we all see, none of pyro DPS fits this criteria. So yes. Looking forward to appropriate character.

[@Dbot-v1]

HK background music bringing back memories

[@sharalakid]

The thing that people don't think about when it comes to Mavuika's restrictivenesss is that she is just not very future proof as a DPS, when Schneznaya or Khaenri'ah or whatever other expansion comes out, the new supports (which are sure to be BUSTED) will just not work with her while Father, Lyney or Hu Tao could be buffed by a Furina 2.0 or another Kazuha/Xilonen being released. In a year or two Mavuika's teams will stagnate, she'll still be exceptional of course, she might remain at the top of the pyro dps meta for the rest of the game's lifespan if she's lucky, but if you wanna use Skirk or Tsaritsa or whatever unit comes out that you really like with her in the future, good luck

[@Marc-w1f5x]

I skipped all of them until this one so I' m good. At first I wanted her to be an off field sub-dps only but her DPS playstyle is really smooth, better than any other DPS including the other elements and she can do both roles equally well at C1+ and you fail to address this properly in your video, that's why she's miles aheard of HuTao and Arlecchino. I absolutely wanted full uptime on her elemental skill so C0 was no good for me and spent my Primos saved to get C6 right away. After testing her for 2 weeks she does need Xilonen but not Citlali who can be replaced by a damage oriented sub-dps like Emilie or Yae. I have enough Primos left to get Citlali but already saving for Cryo Archon. Xilonen is a must pull for any account so it's not a problem.

[@itsjb0130]

But… Still.! no one can replace Bennett 💀 It’s been 5 years

[@maxssmurf5598]

I have so many all of them and I need a more hydro application water boy ain’t enough furina is decent

[@bamshakfwangyil1452]

6:15 In terms of whose a better meta pull value I’m still not sure it’s a discussion Imo. You could say Mavuika is restrictive. But her supports for any account that cares about meta are units you should pull regardless You care about meta. Xilonen and Citlali are units you pull even if you don’t have Mavuika Heck I think both her supports are higher on the pull value chart than Arlecchino herself Citlali (debateable) Xilonen (absolutely more valuable than Arle)

[@mamtalohat6431]

im so done w the whole lotta pyro dps i benched IM SO DONE

[@pedr1047]

If the archon is the best of their element, it applies that there isn't going to be another pyro dps in the same level of mavuika, so she is the cap or is she the last pyro dps?

[@latinachan4368]

Lyney gets kicked in the butt with his bow charge attack play style and circle impact restriction But every other one kickd butt

[@lacountess]

I laughed so hard when a KZbinr who was reviewing Mavuika said, "She'll be the strongest Archon in the bunch until they introduce the Cryo Archon piloting a giant mech suit." 🤣

[@connerjessop8422]

Are you going to make a “too many hydro healers” too?

[@HadouGun]

The biggest Victim here is the Raiden Shogun, her playstyle was powercrept to 2-3x the damage.

[@Arbiter-e8g]

Do we really have an over abundance of Pyro DPS units? From the roster of units we have that can be decently used as a dps, we have Diluc, Xiangling, Hu Tao, Klee, Yoimiya, Yanfei, Lyney, Arlechino and Mauvika. If we shorten this list down to actually good dps units, we just have xiangling, hu tao, lyney, arlechino and mauvika.

[@traditionalcherry]

I literally only got Mavuika because of her sub dps/off field pyro application for Neuvillette and Xilonen. I don’t have Bennett and refuse to build Xiangling. (Before anyone judges me for using Mavuika and Neuvi together, the pyro archon makes my dragon boy hit over 100k so I don’t wanna hear it)

[@paulolugo7447]

Yeah, Mauvika definitely buffs Neuvi. She buffs & enables vapor off field.

[@traditionalcherry]

@@paulolugo7447 Yeah it’s really amazing for him!! I’m glad they work well together for that.

[@uraninezak]

We will never escape circle impact

[@Dooood24]

I just want a pyro xinqiu/yelan or a no circle bennet 😢

[@kimberlygynn32]

well mavuika is the god of war, what do u expect her to be? a support?

[@calvin659]

Mualani mains seething rn because they need support Mavuika to achieve a fraction of Neuv’s power.

[@eiji11282]

I had 10 seconds in floor 12 chamber 2 second half and mavuika just one shotted XD

[@Squashua2727]

I guess you can make that argument... As far as I'm concerned, Dehya is the only pyro dps though.

[@JaleTechAndGaming]

Yeah, I think we’re good on pyro for a bit. I wonder how much power creep cryo is going to get… I doubt they’ll make older cryo carries worth using. They gotta get us to spend. I keep forgetting that Lyney exists. I didn’t pull in him or Arlecchino since I already had a C1 Hutao and I was taking a break. I also despise plunge so that part of the game and its characters is basically deleted for me.

[@matthewsarson6934]

I would be ok with getting more Pyro characters but god damn it they had better be supports or sub DPS next time around.

[@permastuned4066]

see you later in 2-4 months for the next pyro dps release

[@jackrabbit1704]

Moment of silence for the primogems of players who pulled: Diluc->Klee->Hu Tau->Yoimiya->Lynie->Father->Mavuika. We all know you got a Dehya in there somewhere too.

[@bahamut2807]

What is forward melt? I know what melt is but the forward part i don't. And reverse vape? Reverse?

[@rahulp3486]

Forward melt is Pyro applied to a cryo aura. Reverse melt is Cryo applied to a Pyro aura.

[@haruhihirano2633]

7:40 nah i still want natlan to give us at least 1 pyro 4 star, cuz Fontaine never gave us a hydro 4 star, i wouldnt mind if they're like another kachina or ororon, i want a 4 star chasca or kinich lol

[@danielvandeputte7588]

If they release a pyro dps that actually out does an archon with two dedicated 5 stars taped to it then the game is cooked legitimately.

[@AshTheGreat1998]

I don't see the big deal. The redundancy in pyro dps characters only really applies to a select few spend to get most if not all of them. F2P's barely are rewarded enough to really criticize the oversaturation of pyro and even if they could not all of the pyro characters play the same regardless.

[@SixtyFourBlades]

We really need Pyro supports more than anything at this point. Bennett seriously needs to just go away already.

[@comteqfr525]

I'm very done with pyro main DPS, but I wouldn't mind some more off-field/support.

[@clown2005]

People before arlecchino: pyro Archon better be the best pyro dps because she's god of war for a reason. People after arlecchino: no she should be Bennett and xangling replacement and not a dps. ( There was always two sides but it's just funny to think about it, now only need to wait for a Bennett replacement)

[@AnneYoungHaseyo]

me who never liked and skipped Arlecchino, Lyney, or any pyro DPS character since Hu Tao release, i welcome the Pyro DPS archon with open arms 🥰 if you have those chars, i understand that Mavuika's not much of an upgrade to your account but you can't assume that everyone has every pyro dps. Not only that she bulldozes every bosses in the game, you can play her as off field support/buffer

[@foxmountain8065]

We don't have too many, we have Mavuika and inferior versions of her.

[@SeravySensei]

Meanwhile me : Klee is still the best Pyro DPS ever since 1.0. Characters just got more and more restrictive and offer less and less convenience or value in exchange for ever increasing higher damage output. Which is the only thing I don't care about because they'll powercreep enemies in Abyss faster than what I can keep up with anyway and for everything else, even Diluc is still enough. (yes, there are a few outliers to that statement but not in Pyro, unfortunately. Neuvilette managed to be a powercreep while still providing more convenience than other on field hydro DPS for example)

[@magiclover9346]

The most dissapointing thing about Mavuika other than her Natlan only teams. Is she is focused on her main pyro dps unstead of off field support. I skipped Arlenchino because i already have c3 Diluc, c6 Gaming, C0/r1 Hu Tao and Aqau Leney. I wished for Citlali because i already have so many options for her. Where's our pyro support units. We've gotten 3 in the entire game and all 4 stars. If Cryos problem is there are not enough dps with modern power budgets. Pyro is the void of supportive units. Bennet power 5, Thoma mid unless dendro and Chevreuse. Thats it out of a cast of 93 playable characters. Even Geo is doing a better job with Zhonghli, Gorou, Xilonen Noelle and Yunjin. GEO. Cryo has Shenhe, Diona, Layla, Candice and a wealth of off field field options that enable its reactions. Doubling back to Mavuika im still gonna get her at some point as a second Xianglin and feel like im under utilising her. Edit: I forgot about Dehya. She had her uses.

[@Marc-w1f5x]

You only need Xilonen and she's a must pull for any account anyways. It's like Pre-C6 Furina needs a healer.

[@ulicmasterduel]

Mavuika is top tier sub dps, her Tap Elemental Skill damage is insane and has non ICD. Her burst increase 40% damage for the on field character. Bennet is top support in the whole roaster, on par with the best 5* support like Kazuha etc. Chevreuse is THE character that enables a whole reaction to be competitive. Now, GEO: Zhongli has the best shield in the game, some elemental shred and that's it. Very solid unit, rarely the best to put in a team. Gorou? He support only GEO and it's not even required for the best Geo DPS in the game. XIlonen is top support on par with Kazuha and Bennet. Noelle is useless compared to other character. Yunjin is never the best option for NA DPS. Now, CRYO: Shenhe is good only in Cryo comp, otherwise is mid to useless. Diona has only the C6 constellation good, the shield is like paper, good for big melt showcase on youtube and that's enough. Layla, big shield, a 4* version of Zhongli. Candace is hydro dude. Pyro is one of the best elements for support and sub dps role, while being the absolute best element for DPS.

[@magiclover9346]

@Marc-w1f5x i have my issues with Xilonen just like I do with Citlali. The active push against mono teams of their elements. Even with those, they offer so much more account value than any other Natlan unit. The two best units of the region so far.

[@magiclover9346]

@@ulicmasterduel the point im making is Gorou enables mono Geo. He lets characters like Albedo do good numbers and he's still amazing for Itto and Noelle. Mono Geo while not a meta pick is still a very competent team. Even this abyss with some resets it could clear side two. Brute forcing the Pappilla with its buffs up (that's alot of damage). My point is Geo and Cryo have a support for most niches. Mono, reaction, rainbow, Na. This is something pyro is missing. Pyro might have the best dps's but it lacks filler units that enable variety. Also Zhongli is the best turn our brain off character in the game that makes him incredibly valuable and the best support in the game for some people.

[@Marc-w1f5x]

My Deyha team is EmilieC1-DeyhaC4-NahidaC3-FurinaC6. I plan to get C5 in the 5* selector and C6 in the Sumeru wish event eventually.

[@thomasbell3647]

As an F2P who generally doesn't find pyro particularly interesting, I say please keep going with it. It's more banners that let me save my primos for other characters I do want... Seriously though, they should never do another cryo situation again. It's just awful. It would be cool for pyro to not drop off a cliff, but it should try to saturate new niches now and stop with the DPS train for a bit.

[@Neloch4]

i think we'll live either way

[@GodChaos333]

Honestly I think xiangling and bennet make pyro so lacking in creativity. And hoyo knows it. Neither can be an amazing dps so they stuck to that, but if they try to make a healer, buffer, or sub DPS, it’s kinda hard to do so. Unless they make it niche like Chevy, I mean, why use the new buffer when bennet is still better? I feel like they made mavuika more dps focused because they thought xiangling was still too good of an alternative, being free and everything, so they had to add dps in.

[@paulolugo7447]

Think the next broken DPS will be Skirk, who is a confirmed cryo user.

[@potatosalad3655]

You forgot to mention bennet is actually a decent pyro dps too if built for it He truly is the pyro sovereign

[@MavuikaKiongozi]

No cuz why is most of natlan 5star character is dps like mualani, kinich, even xilonen triple geo, chasca, and mavuika💀

[@Lyney_thegreatmagician]

LITERALLY BRO 😭🙏 I don’t mind Mualani and kinich as dps like ok cool two new dps in a new region woohoo BUT IT JUST KEEPS GOING ON 😨 im skipping mavuika for arle and getting mavuika in 5.7 during her rerun and rn her build is on gaming till I get mavuika. I’m using her as a sub-dps (golden troupe) for Mualani and kinich along with my other dps,

[@MavuikaKiongozi]

@Lyney_thegreatmagician r u sure? Cuz in 5.7 skirk debut banner is coming but if u didn't want her well then u can skip mavuika since arle more flexible and more f2o compare to mavuika

[@Lyney_thegreatmagician]

@MavuikaKiongozi ehhh I can skip skirk since I’m already gonna get Wriothesley (if capitano and columbina come out tho.. 😨)

[@CRandyGamble]

NOPE. ALL PYRO FROM NOW ON. But seriously, it's been a lot. I love Mavuika, she's so fun, but that's enough. I've been messing around with a meme team with Mavuika, Raiden Shogun, Furina, and Xilonen. Auto target shenanigans, it's silly and fun for dailies and running around.

[@balusama]

tbh i still use xiangling, i find her easier to rotate, mavuika seems weird in rotations

[@nene4658]

I think they should just stop making pyro dps units and instead release more supportive pyro units. Would feel really scummy if mavuika the literal god of war and fire gets powercrept by some rando from a different region

[@is1enterprise944]

Yes we need cryo and hydro characters not another pyro dps

[@MrCaiobrz]

You fail to understand the meaning of the elements. Pyro = Fire, strength, impulse, energy ... DPS Hydro = Water, life, fluidity ... heal/support / sub DPS Geo = Earth, stone, barrier ... shield Cryo = Ice, cold, brittle ... strategic support Anemo = wind, speed, flight ... exploration support Dendro = wtf element they needed an odd number xD

[@grant6864]

1:17 Klee burgeon is crazy

[@RejectedInch]

Try burgeon Hu Tao with Kokomi. You don't even need to jump cancel Tao attacks, her pyro infused NA is enough. The burgeon explosions are enough to counter the Kokomi over healing.

[@volcanichydra976]

Still love Mavuika tho. These videos are great and this one is very informative

[@howtheworldworks3]

Not enough pyro dps chars. I still don't have one. They all suck. Just make a bloody 5 star version of Bennett already.

[@arifreggit]

Who's lyney?

[@rainofkhandaq6678]

It's like crying about too many fire types in Pokemon. Literally just pick who you like, get them, build around them. Genshin community is addicted to drama.

[@Kryo_GTS]

Pyro kuki when?😢

[@qbccc]

How about physical meta

[@shahilrai7697]

And this spiral Abyss is all about PYRO and Nightsoul....

[@Swing-q7x]

But the buff of the pyro half is only tailormade for Arle's normal attacks. The other pyro dps don't really want to do normal attacks.

[@shahilrai7697]

@ 1st team arle 2nd team mavika for utilizing the blessing properly

[@ISMythix]

Almost like they want to sell the characters that are on banners...

[@LouieLouLoo]

For me, its the over abundance of female characters than male ones. And if theres a new character, its either form the new region or either liyue/inazuma/fontaine and never Mondstadt. More male charatcers and from Mondstadt i say.

[@yasser9399]

I don’t need Mavuika, I have Hu Tao

[@maninanikittycat4238]

we need more off field pyros other then Xiangling

[@paulolugo7447]

uh…Mauvika?

[@lamontehughes7318]

Deyha c2 or burning core, Thoma, and Mauvika is the best

[@bighat8794]

Im not a fan of her personality and I really love all the previous pyro dps so she is a massive let down to me, easy skip sadly (pulling her just for the off field part of her kit feels wrong lmao)

[@THEPYROUCHIHA]

Hu tao is shit. Even with insane artifacts and 5 star weapons she does barely any damage compared to other units it is basically impossible to depend on her in the abyss

[@ISMythix]

💀

[@normal6483]

Amber -> Bennett -> *Diluc* -> Xiangling -> *Klee* -> Xinyan -> *Hu Tao* -> *Yanfei* -> *Yoimiya* -> Thoma -> Dehya -> *Lyney* -> Chevreuse -> *Gaming* -> *Arleccino* -> *Mavuika* -> Pyro Traveler We have 9 out of 17 possible Pyro characters who are meant to be played as on-field carries. That's roughly 53% of all Pyro characters, or over half. Of those 9 characters, 9 of them have Reverse Vape as one of their primary teams, utilizing either Furina or Yelan/Xingqiu. (Although many may prefer Melt or Mono Pyro, Reverse Vape is consistently one of the top 3 team builds for each Pyro DPS.) If we include characters with on-field options as a competitive alternative to off-field options, even if they're usually off-field, then c1 Dehya and Pyro Traveler would also fit. (Mostly because their on-field and off-field are about equally sub-optimal. However, this list isn't about the best, right now it's about what each character is made to do. Otherwise Yanfei would just be a shielder.) This brings us up to 11 out of 17 Pyro characters meant to be played as on-fielders, who also happen to have Reverse Vape as a top-3 team build. This is 64% of all Pyro characters. However, lots of characters can become Pyro carries thanks to Bennett c6 and Xianyun. And with Furina, this team comp also become a Reverse Vape comp. Notably this adds Xinyan and Bennett as competitive Pyro on-field options for Xianyun teams, and both are Vaping Furina's hits. Xiangling can also be an on-fielder, since she buffs her own Pyro damage at c6. Normally this would make 14 out of 17 Pyro characters who have on-field Reverse Vape play styles, or 82% of all Pyro characters. However... If we're considering c6 Bennett + Xianyun + Furina then we need to consider that it's not just Pyro characters that make good on-field Pyro Vape damage dealers. This also adds Freminet, Eula, and Razor who do more damage as Pyro characters than Physical characters. If we count characters who don't have their own. But Kazuha and Albedo also have increased plunge damage and EM buffs, meaning they're actually rather effective in Xianyun Vape.This brings us up to 19 characters who can serve as meaningful on-field Reverse Vape DPS characters, compared to 17 total Pyro characters. (I won't pretend that this is 112% of all Pyro characters, even though that would be funny.) We could theoretically include all Sword, Spear, and Polearm characters in the game as options, since anyone can Vape via c6 Bennett + Furina or Yelan, and Xianyun makes that viable for almost anyone. This would mean that there are 60 total characters in the game who can potentially be a Reverse Vape carry, out of 93. That's 64% of all characters who have this as an optional playstyle. At this point we're reaching the point of absurdity, both for the game and for this list. But the point isn't that this is a _good_ option for all of these characters. It's certainly not the best, and even within this niche many of these characters are outperformed by others. Actually, almost all of them are out-performed; right now I think Lyney is the best Reverse Vaper, since the other 3 top Pyro carries (Mavuika, Arleccino, & Gaming) do better with Melt. But that's not the point - the point is that this single reaction is so oversaturated in the game that it's ridiculous. The majority of Pyro characters have on-field Reverse Vape in their top 3 teams. On-field Reverse Vape is so accessible that even non-Pyro characters sometimes utilize it. And the teams are always the same: - Bennett - Hydro Applier (almost always Furina, Xingqiu, or Yelan) - VV holder (or Xilonen) - Pyro Carry We've had countless variations on the same team, over and over and over again. This team has been here since the game launched, and the thing that changes most often is who the Pyro Carry is. Even with the release of Citlali and the introduction of Forward Melt as a viable option, the team doesn't change much because you just swap Hydro out for Cryo and call it a day. The Pyro carries are all unchanged, with Mavuika, Arleccino, Gaming, and Lyney all using Melt instead of Vape but otherwise playing exactly the same as before. Citlali is a new addition to the team the same way Xilonen is - she didn't meaningfully change anything, she just made the numbers go up. (Honestly Xianyun was the biggest playstyle change for the archetype, and she was a really fun addition. But she also contributed a lot to making The Pyro Team to ubiquitous, because now even non-Pyro characters can join in.) It's just so... bloated.

[@chrono732]

By adding Bennett C6 into the mix, you're going off track. We're talking actual pyro units, the 17 units you mentioned in the beginning. Considering each of their kit, no one unit is the same in terms of playstyle. Each and every unit is unique in their own way. Now factor in the 9 on field carries, each also has their own unique team. With that in mind, some Pyro DPS cannot replace the other while retaining the same teammates. In other words, they cannot replace each other without changing the team comp. You may think there's a lot of pyro DPS, but when you start factoring in gameplay, kit and team comps, honestly, there's no problem with having too many. It just changes the team you would play.

[@JacobJahjasadji]

Don't add Bennett C6 to the calculations lol Also Klee is better with Dendro teams because her application is so high Diluc is played in Xianyun plunge And aside from that, the rest are still divided into two. Yoimiya and Lyney is focused on Single Target while the rest can do aoe, especially Mavuika

[@rykersixx]

I skipped every pyro till mauv lol 😂