The Concerning State of Cities Skylines 2 in 2024

Cities Skylines 2 has had a tough, young life. In this video I'll dissect Cities Skylines 2's journey so far, from patches to a myriad of delays, through some PR blunders and the state of Cities Skylines 2 today. Towards the conclusion, I'll reflect on the Cities Skylines 1 vs Cities Skylines 2 question, and whether Cities Skylines 2 is worth it right now, and where to from here? Let's discuss!
Contents:
0:00 - Cities Skylines 2
0:21 - The Turbulent Journey So Far...
1:45 - Community Response & Player Count Dread
3:25 - Coming Soon Delays : Console, Free Packs, Maps & DLC
6:14 - And... Mods
8:53 - Expectations & Reality
11:10 - Where to from here?
13:39 - Cities Skylines 1 vs Cities Skylines 2
14:22 - What's Next?
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Video Information
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[@dr.strangelove6118]

Gamers are whipped , this game needed another 2 years to cook.

[@flox1514]

Or more

[@TheAutobotPower]

For the pc it asks for maybe double that.

[@Bambeakz]

And without Steam workshop even modders can’t fix the damn game for them

[@jameshull7261]

Paradox are just crooks they the ones who need cooking

[@Greybell]

They shot themselves in the foot on this one. I can't stand fans who defended them saying "Remember CS1 was broken too so we should wait". No? This industry practice shouldn't be supported.

[@ScytheNoire]

Publishers need to spend less on advertising, more on development and testing. So glad I don't pre-order games, because I was really looking forward to this sequel, and will still purchase it when it's out of paid beta testing.

[@Infernal_Elf]

Absolutely I been looking forward to like 5 games last few years and they have all been dogshit at release. Never ever preorder indeed

[@JonPKibble]

100% this. I didn't pay $50 for software-in-progress in 1994 and don't see why I need to today. Even the original SimCity was cheaper than that, and was a finished product. I can't think of any quality games I've ever come across that have offered any discernable benefit to pre-ordering, only disappointments from developers. Calling it paid beta testing seems way more appropriate!

[@PunmasterSTP]

I completely agree! The way I see it, pre-ordering a game just increases the disincentive for the devs to release a finished product on-time.

[@Greybell]

I tried it on GamePass (which is basically just paid trial) and I love the improvements on the city building features. BUT there are some missing features (tax options are limited) and the simulation is just glitchy and laggy. It's disappointing at best even with the cool new features. At this point they should work on CS3 because no amount of optimizations can save this.

[@richardthompson7572]

you are right but they obviously sell more copies with a big advertising budget regardless of the quality of the game. The community needs to stop pre ordering and then the power of advertising and the slop that they put ot will need to change.

[@dougbeard7624]

CO doesn't have the leadership required to get out of this situation. Their fragmented focus with their "small team" is illustrative of poor decision making at the top of the company. Focusing on console at all, while the already released version of the game is abysmally failing, is obtuse. The length between patches, and patches being tied to DLC is further indication that Paradox's meddling in the issue is detrimental to the games reputation.

[@lucmikaelson4428]

even attempting a console port was a huge error.

[@Thopher99]

As a PC player, I felt like I’ve payed to CO to make them happy during Christmas and leisurely continue developing the console version, while I only get a patchy, unfinished game.

[@Skibidy_rizzler_]

The shou​d have made only a console vetsion @@lucmikaelson4428

[@nickgotvyak5890]

And the fact that said leadership even once lashed out on players calling their simulation bad (despite how obviously broken it was) tells that even after bug fixes and modding, vanilla might not be fun ever, at all

[@Bambeakz]

Settlers, Company of Heroes 3 and now this. Unfinished negative recieved games that still get an console port without being fixed Devs don’t care

[@williamtopping]

Remember folks, these days companies truly believe YOU are toxic for complaining. You should just pay up and shut up and enjoy whatever garbage you're served up. Don't want to be called toxic. Heaven forbid some greedy ass pompous manager actually take responsibility. It's YOUR fault for complaining. Not theirs for releasing a garbage product

[@BayAreaMike99]

Sounds like America😂

[@MrHellknightimp]

Paradox really should just start releasing their games in EA, that little early access banner would solve so many of their PR problems.

[@Infernal_Elf]

Early acess is for actual indie studios that cant pay rent if they dont release during development. Paradox aint. they make around 100 million us dollars a year

[@Kopiati]

Early Access means lower prices, not gonna happen.

[@JaKingScomez]

@@Kopiatican you even release paid dlc for a early access game?

[@anonemoose7777]

You can’t start churning out train simulator levels of DLC for a game that is EA so that’s gonna be a hard pass from Payalot Interactive.

[@Magicwillnz]

The problem was the dishonesty. If they just said "hey this is an open beta" the reaction would have been poor but not catastrophic.

[@Graue.Eminenz]

_I'm still annoyed with myself that i missed the refund deadline._ 😮‍💨

[@adorp]

Downloaded the torrent, didmt like it, and never bothered to buy. started with Farthest Frontier the same way, but ended up buying it.

[@shushyshushy6762]

There's a reason why I keep playing CS1 over CS2, sure CS1 is much older, but it actually works. CS2 I had a city reach 90,000 citizens and my framerate tanked hard but in CS1 with the help of a mod I have a city with 250,000 citizens and my framerate is buttery smooth.

[@lextacy2008]

Yea but the modders have stopped supporting CS1. I currently am waiting for an update to every mod ever since October to get my city to work again

[@buildconcept1006]

Could you please tell me which mod improves your CS1 performance? Thanks

[@shushyshushy6762]

@@buildconcept1006 What are your system specs? Cause that's the real issue as to why CS1 ends up having bad performance. If you don't have enough RAM 16gb or higher, or if you're getting a bottleneck issue between your CPU and GPU you'll get piss poor performance. That or you're trying to play on an old outdated GTX 10 series or equivalent to a 10 series card you'll get piss pour performance.

[@shushyshushy6762]

@@lextacy2008 People are still updating and making mods for CS1, especially since CS2 is complete garbage right now. Transport tool was just recently updated on the 20th of February. Theme Mixer was updated back on September 5th of 2023. Natural Lighting was updated on January 22nd of this year. Prop Control was updated on January 5th of this year. SKYVE was updated on October 28th, 2023. Intersection Marking Tool was updated October 14th of 2023. So to say that Modders have stopped supporting CS1 is a very big and outlandish stretch, especially since CS2 is seeing a continued drop in player activity, while CS1 is starting to grow again in player count because people are going back to CS1 over CS2.

[@lextacy2008]

No they are not. Look at the last updated date on the major gameplay mods. They go back to CS2 release date. We even lost Building Themes for good. @@shushyshushy6762

[@briansterling5912]

I went back to CS1 after getting my refund and never looked back.

[@IonxCaptain]

Well another w for the gamepass owners

[@heatherharrison264]

I recently built a new, powerful PC that can play all the latest games. Cities: Skylines 1 is finally running well, and I will be able to mod it to death, which I couldn't do on the old computer. Cities: Skylines 2 might never find its way into my collection. I was interested in it as it was coming out, but then, I remembered how I got suckered into the DLC spam parade with Cities: Skylines 1, and the idea of having to re-buy a lot of DLC just to get comparable functionality turned me off. And this was before the disastrous launch. Even if Cities: Skylines 2 gets fixed up and start to function adequately, I think I might finally be done with Paradox. If I finally decide to go for it after a few years, there will probably be a list of DLC as long as my arm that I'll have to wade through to figure out which ones are valuable and which ones are horse armor. Screw that. I'll play Timberborn instead.

[@jeffreyjumisko5165]

Aaaaaaaaand THAT'S how I stopped playing the Sims! The DLC grab made me sick of it.

[@watchout5508]

TIMBERBORN!!!!! HELLO FELLOW BEAVER BROTHER❤❤ Love that game! Not so much the new Bad Water addition but I guess it brings new life to the game..

[@heatherharrison264]

@@jeffreyjumisko5165 With The Sims, I suppose I got lucky. I didn't get into it initially, and when I finally took a close look, it was so loaded up with DLC that it turned me off completely, so I have never played it. If I hadn't started on Cities: Skylines fairly early in the process, I might never have picked it up. At this point, I hope another developer sees the opportunity and creates a worthy competitor to Cities: Skylines.

[@heatherharrison264]

@@watchout5508 It seems that people have mixed feelings about the badwater. I like it, as it adds a new engineering challenge, and it provides a way to rapidly wreck a beaver colony if I happen to be in a destructive mood.

[@watchout5508]

@heatherharrison264 hmmm legit never thought of hurting my poor beavers...I mean I already work em half to death. I appreciate the developers focusing more on the lifeblood and central pivot of the game (water) maybe they will add water beavers next? Would really like more water living focused content...

[@vaughn1804]

No Mans City Skylines ✌️ Compliments to the art director though. The game is beautiful. Even at 4 FPS 😂

[@backupplan6058]

4 FPS, what super computer are you running it on, Aurora, Frontier?

[@vaughn1804]

@@backupplan6058 LMFAO! 😂🤣☠️

[@YellowBriefs]

Still ugly when compared to SimCity

[@Astrotamtv]

Sim city 4 looks better

[@REXae86]

i couldn't even get 10 fps LOL

[@opalyankaBG]

We expected Paradox+Colossal Order to bring a SimCity 5, instead they went fully EA and brought a SimCity (2013).

[@TiGGowich]

that is such a good summary haha

[@jasmeetbrar8609]

I still think that SimCity 2013 is better in terms of simulation. I just wish at this point that we can make larger cities rather than having to make multiple cities that work together.

[@asierxs02]

​@@jasmeetbrar8609 not to defend cs2 here, but sc2013 has a terrible simulation. Sims go to the nearest job and house, the population number is fake and education is not an inherent property of a sim, it is instead brought to a building where everyone will become more educated.

[@noworries272]

I feel there are so many issues and they don't really know what to do to fix them, nor in what order. They are fighting a war in which they are being ambushed from many sides and are in chaos. IMO of their own making. They made a stand and divided the community of against and for. I believe many of those "for" players are now seeing the writing on the wall and the negative response is building. Creators continue to trend away from CS2 and the more they do the less support CS2 has. It is an absolute MESS!! You can read between the lines of their responses and WOTW. I totally believe they are walking that tight rope. They will fall to one side or the other. One side is the long road to fixing the game and the other is succumbing to the pressure to refund peoples money. The atmosphere just seems like SimCity!! So many major creators on KZbin are having to take different routes to keep their channels alive. Many of which I wouldn't even be watching if it were not for CS1. Which is why this is all painful. We all grew together and were bonded by something special. They have done messed that up and have broken the trust in actions and words. IMO every day that passes without true fixes and repentance will make it harder and harder to make a comeback. They splashed on the screen as the underdog and forgot from where they came and who put them there. All for the sake of money. Shame shame!! Love your channel, perspective and honesty!

[@PunmasterSTP]

Well-said. I really wish they'd take the longer, harder road and actually fix the game, like what No Man's Sky did, but at this point I'm not optimistic.

[@thehuskyden]

I held out hope that all of the issues with Cities: Skylines II could be fixed eventually, but I'm afraid that the game itself is beyond repair. Let me tell you why... The reason I think the game is irreparable is because the basic design of the game (simulating every citizen, their actions, their jobs, their spending) while a nice idea in theory was a poor idea in practice. I understand that people would like to see every CIM simulated. It is an attractive idea. I just don't think it makes for a good game and we're witnessing it right now. With that in mind, unless they rewrite the game code from scratch, I just don't see how this game can be improved. It just isn't fun.

[@PunmasterSTP]

@@thehuskyden To me, that level of granularity is extremely interesting, and maybe if things were better coded and had been better managed it could work. I'd honestly be willing to compromise on lower maximum total population or city size if I could really drill down into the simulation and it ran well and acted reasonably. Maybe we just have to wait for another developer to pick up the mantle, like when CS1 took over from SimCity...

[@thehuskyden]

@@PunmasterSTP I agree that level of detail is interesting to me as well. I think you nailed it with scaling it down as the solution. You can have detail and scale it to 10% just like you do with polling samples. The accuracy of the model is still there, just not the massive numbers.

[@kountree38]

well said

[@nathanbrammer8471]

I haven't played it for months, I'm back on CS1 and really enjoying it, love my mods and assets.

[@SebastianVik]

The first thing i did when i opened cities skylines 2 was to notice that the camera controls were wrong. that is to say, I had changed my key bindings for cities 1 many many years ago, and couldn't even change those keys for cities 2. then i saw that janky tarrain glitchiness where the seams between roads and terrain break, and you can see though the game map into the abyss. I didnt understand what could possibly be better than cities 1 in the second one, and quickly thought "I can just play cities 1, i have 5-6 dlcs there and can build a bike only city if i want"

[@morvau]

What’s not mentioned here is the choice by paradox to force a release before it’s done, knowing it’ll be bought, because of the massive failure and loss due to the release of lamplighter or whatever the hell that game is called. Paradox intentionally forced an early release to pad their numbers prior to an earnings call.

[@ToadyEN]

(This isn't you) but I love how all the influencers that were lauding the game on launch are all on the train of calling out colossal order now. People who got all puckered up with pre-release content like Biffa plays indie games (who took months! to call out the game)

[@ToadyEN]

People expecting it on console soon are gonna have a loooong wait. Play it (or watch the slideshow) on an equivalent spec PC to see why.

[@willywonka6487]

people like biffa will only speak up when the popular opinion flows with them

[@DokisKalin1]

@@willywonka6487 exactly! he's fake.

[@drwheycooler8423]

​@@DokisKalin1he's a politician. Whatever is going to pay him the most is what he's going to do.

[@OhOkayThenLazySusan]

What do you expect them to do? They were pumped about the game. It came out and obviously needed work, which they all said. Then months go by without the appropriate fixes, now they are upset. Biffa and others were likely paid in some way to promote the game. You don't get paid to promote something, then turn around and say "this is trash." They gave CO a generous grace period to get their act together. They didn't and now they are speaking up.

[@Secretsofsociety]

I swear publishers figured out that if they release a broken game not only do they get the initial wave of buyers but get to do the equivalent of a grand reopening when it is finally fixed for another wave of buyers leading to more overall sales. Also people complaining about the game is a more effective ad campaign than people saying its great.

[@dyne313]

They're trying to turn Cities 2 into Sim City 2013.

[@PunmasterSTP]

Or maybe SimCity Societies lol...

[@vnshngpnt]

Lol Sim City 2013 is eons ahead this game. It at least has agent systems working properly

[@PunmasterSTP]

@@vnshngpnt Man, if SC 2013 is eons ahead of CS2, that's pretty bad 😥

[@tonyzed6831]

@@vnshngpnt Lol... you mean the agents that go to the nearest job available and come back from work to enter the nearest home available???

[@vnshngpnt]

@@tonyzed6831 at least they go to the job lol

[@Dylster501]

In there defense on the DLC delay, if they released DLCs before fixing bugs and making the game playable people would call the scummy and say they just want the money and don't care about playerbase

[@ChesterWolf]

I'm going to keep it short and simple people want to play the game that they paid for but basically you need a $5,000 gaming PC in order to get anything decent out of this game. That's totally unfair to the average PC Gamer who has medium to low end systems according to steam. Basically you need an i7 to get decent performance an I-9 is what you really need. It seems like they made this game to cater to be I-9 processor. Which once again the average PC Gamer doesn't have

[@Infernal_Elf]

The game engine is broken so it will run like shit no matter the system.

[@drwheycooler8423]

It's way more than just a graphics/performance issue. The game mechanics are broken...and they have no idea how or where to even begin to fix it.

[@jos6884]

the physics are broken, they tried to hard to make the clouds and water look good that they didn’t even think about performance

[@StormontLover]

As someone who is super outside-looking-in on the Cities community, this whole thing seems a lot like another Payday 3 to me (pretty ironic, given that the two releases were only a month apart.) An alright to good game at the core, which as a sequel, took far too long to come out for what it provided and pales in comparison to its predecessor in some ways that are understandable and others that are much less so. Poor communication from the developers (though, I'd argue it was even worse in CS2's case, with that abysmal "Stop bullying us or we'll lock down even more" response to criticism; Say what you want, at least Starbreeze's team seem genuinely apologetic and haven't lashed out at the fans); The pretty likely possibility of extreme publisher meddling; An exodus back to the predecessor and at a state mere months after release where only the most diehard fans are giving it the time of day. I think both this game and PD3 are more than capable of staging their comebacks, but it's sure as hell not going to be easy for either, especially in regaining community trust.

[@alexdelta57]

Been watching these videos since you started these videos on CS:2, I realized today I hadn't subscribed yet - thank you for your honest and sober commentary on the game. Very few other KZbinrs have been giving honest perspectives into the game until recently, and everyone wants to climb on board with them now. You deserve way more recognition for the constistency of your reporting, in depth analysis, as well as holistic and honest reporting on the game so far.

[@themalmana]

This is probably a type of game where the devs (especially engineers) should be the ones telling what goes in to the game including monetization. If you are working at a small studio and you can't impact the end product then you know there is a problem.

[@richardthompson7572]

CO are a disaster and the CEO should walk. Taking mods away from the steam workshop is a joke and then not having modding support from day one, when the modders fixed Cities one. The fact they didnt know or care that the modders were so important to their success. The main problem that wont get fixed is the simulation is pointless, it doesnt do anything. Ultimately they have made a load of money from pre-sales and only care about selling the DLC in the future. Its sad how badly they have treated the community.

[@Hartsock252]

Contra of CS2: - It came naked, compared to CS1 - It is buggish - Bad Perfomance - No Mod Support - Maps are small - Bad Simulation Pro: + Some small functions, which you can also have in CS1 with Mods

[@Hartsock252]

It is so disappointing, that they brought CS2 with so few content. Yes CS1 and CS2 Vanilla, CS2 shines almost. But for a Sequel owning CS1, of course I will look at least at CS1 with DLCs, I understand that they not having all CS1 Mods in CS2, I would wish so, but ok. CS2 doesnt even have the minimum of CS1 DLCs. I like CS2, but I can't replay it... and I am tired of Mods.

[@Hartsock252]

The Map Size, I really expected that CS2 would give us finally the oppertunity to have at least enough space to build Cities like Paris, London or Manila, but no I can't even build a RL City of 100k Population. Especially sad, since even the Title says Cities, meaning more then one City.

[@Hartsock252]

The Last thing that really bugs me is the Simulation and AI. Which is terrible for living in 2024.

[@Xizario2]

They promised CS2 to be designed for consoles and pc at the same time and to have better performance than CS1. And what happened in the end: shitty performance and not available on Switch.

[@MrTomtomtest]

Hmm didn't CS1 come out even more naked tho ? I seem to remember it took years for CS1 to actually take off. Not that I played much of CS, just here for the lolz.

[@Ilyak1986]

What exactly was so hard about saying "we're releasing in EARLY ACCESS, there WILL BE BUGS, pls help us find them"? Last Epoch had several years of early access. PalWorld just released in early access. What's wrong with this route?

[@medievalpeanut4269]

I checked out after I ran into some issues, one notably being the number of education buildings you need as your population grows. If you stay a small town, not an issue, add dense residential and you neeed like 5 schools per block and it’s specifically elementary schools that are bugged where students stay there longer than they should creating a backlog..

[@KirithSamara]

as someone who wanted to buy the game during release month, I think it would be interesting to see content creators provide a rolling update "it is at all worth buying in the current condition" percent rating. Maybe something like "if this game were 5% of launch price, it miiight be worth buying *in the current state*" I am in fact interested in trying it, but it's hard for me to judge. "It's still bad" isn't very granular.

[@burntbybrighteyes]

Why do you want granularity in a yes/no decision? The game is not worth buying right now fullstop.

[@thirdofherne9232]

Love CS2. Played it until I'd 'finished' my first city. As far as I could (250,000 pop). As far as I'm concerned I've finished the game. I've stopped playing it. I'll come back and start a new city once they add the ability to save and load assets. (Particularly intersections). Modding would be nice but is pointless to me without assets. I envision that to be 2025. Until then I'll play other stuff and not worry about it.

[@yessirgg]

Use dev mode, definitely will help you enjoy the game, as you can use props.

[@Bambeakz]

If you love this you must love broken games without any challenge because you can’t fail in this game.

[@thirdofherne9232]

I love building cities. I don't care if you can 'fail' at it or not. I'm not looking for 'a challenge'. I couldn't care less about all the economic crap.@@Bambeakz

[@yessirgg]

@@Bambeakz I played CS1, and I succeeded with my first city, with no prior experience of any city builder. Meanwhile, in CS2, I needed to make 3 cities before finally managing to make one that was viable, having played CS1 before. For me atleast, CS2 was more of a challenge than CS1.

[@peterwalker5413]

I really really really wish people “cough” “cough” would stop pushing mod support. “IF” we ever were to get that feature added to the game the they would never push base game fixes and rely on the general public to do their jobs for them. It almost feels like a semi failed kickstarter game development. I don’t know… either way. I still think it’s best if everyone pushes for the base vanilla game to work as intended. Some might not be able to buy DLC’s or expansion packs. So a fully functional base game is a must. Then add the wish list items to the game.

[@mipsan]

I'm not going to buy the dlcs at least before the base game functions as intended. I'm not giving any money for garbage I don't enjoy, as much as I wanted to love it.

[@peterwalker5413]

@@mipsan exactly. 👍

[@Palpatine001]

Eh I have just gone back to CS1 and starting two series there based on the Vanilla Coast, and Vahala Maps from the Steam Workshop ( 😮 THE WORKSHOP) for the duration. CS1 might be 9 years old and Im running 51 mods and 5,000 or so assets but the game with its stutters and lack of Mixed Use still brings a smile to the face 🙂

[@ajw20]

What is the name of the piano song that starts at 1:18?

[@kcjames1829]

Esther Abrami ~ No. 2 Remembering Her

[@ajw20]

@@kcjames1829 Thank you!

[@ZFilms11]

@@kcjames1829 Legend, cheers.

[@MatthiasPowerbomb]

Cities Skylines 1 had a miraculous lifespan, owing almost solely to the amazing workshop, and the CS KZbinr sphere that kept the game alive and thriving with their examples of the incredible cities you could build, thanks to the continued engagement on the workshop nearly a decade on. Paradox's decision to launch CS2 without the workshop is a shockingly boneheaded one. And the lack of enthusiasm for CS2 is pretty apparent here on KZbin. A few years ago, the number of amazing and unique CS series you could find was surprising. Now, there are just a few, and they're all essentially the same. Everyone is working from the same vanilla game, and it shows. I don't think CS2 will have near the lifespan that CS1 had.

[@Corusame]

Hi JumboPixel, not sure if you know but Dune: Spice Wars got a huge update which includes new hero system, full unit rebalancing, combat rework, new faction and many other changes. I would appreciate a Let's Play going over it as I'm sure many others would. I've always really enjoyed your D:SW Let's Plays 😊

[@epicsnake21]

How did I miss this yesterday :( Great video, as always!

[@Eric19401]

Thanks for this video. I just heard about the game and was excited for it (remembering how great Cities 1 was). I didn't imagine Cities 2 was experiencing so many issues. I'll wait until they sort them out.

[@ram64man]

The fact that performance struggles with low 11-20 fps on mid settings on a 3 year old top end , that graphics power outperform any console, citys 2 just won’t run 4k 60 at all unless they re-write all the graphics, but more importantly citys. Arrived significantly cut back , many felt deliberately short changed, significant elements that made city 1 continue in popularity from dlc 4 on should have been included in the game , the lack of steam workshop as well to a garden walled that still hasn’t appeared isn’t just regrettable, it has drawn a definite line against developers that kept the game alive, the building type plot size forces a micromanagement to far , citys 1 was called a painter but it worked, and why the grid is off still unless you go into developer, put it on in the options and set to disable if users select it , but the choice to remove night life, and monorail or offer transrapid as an alternative, the forced train cap in depot is a step to far you end up just spamming the map and air ports are way underused and why no built in train or metro , I like the built in separate cargo but it should also have the built in road for it as well makes placement even harder , the game has gone to pro builder that casual gamer market that was a big mistake. There isn’t even local factory or import especially with electric with roads unable to carry the power without micromanaging, farming that no matter how big you build doesn’t seem to fill the harvest requirement yet build one. Quarry and your good to go up to a million then the fame becomes unplayable even little things like petrol stations haven’t been programmed into the game demand , one petrol station for the city the queue should go off the map but it hardly gets visitors, there no pubs or outdoor restraints that have people enjou the say at peak times like and demand meter would have , and no one playing in sports events again bad move it breaks the simulation feeling and inability to fix ridiculous land vales still in beta . Citys 2 needs better communication and reason for me to come back because right now citys is superior

[@JustALVGuy]

I was willing to be patient and understanding, but after all the PR blunders etc. I am honestly done with it. I wish I didnt have more hours than the minimum to refund it at this point. Definetly the last time any time soon I preorder anything published by PDX, which is a shame.

[@Infernal_Elf]

Dont preorder regardless of company!

[@DovahFett]

Why would you preorder anything anyways? Games are virtual products. There's no scarcity and preorder "bonuses" are almost always end up being released to the rest of the player base after a few months. There is absolutely zero reason to preorder anything in the year 2024, and so if you do and get burned by a bad or unfinished game, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[@JustALVGuy]

@@DovahFett Paradox was the only company I still pre-ordered games from. Also there is someone else to blame. Literally the company that doesnt deliver what is promised. Blaming the consumer for poor decision making on a trusted platform seems odd.

[@Wheelman2004]

@@JustALVGuyI think the point is that there's literally no difference between pre-ordering a digital copy of a game and buying it when it comes out and has been reviewed. Well, there is a difference, I suppose- when you pre-order a game, you enable situations like this where the publisher knows you'll buy whatever trash they shovel in your face. Glad you now see the light when it comes to preorders, if only more gamers could.

[@JDumbz]

Cities Skylines 1 wasn't really sunshine and rainbows either. But the thing was Steam Workshop helped the game developed overtime at a faster rate than the devs did. Now that city skylines 2 doesn't support Steam Workshop, they screwed themselves over not only releasing a game too early, the game not able to be saved my modders just like the first game.

[@jamieferguson935]

You're the only KZbin creator I have watched for CS2, thanks for all your content. I played the heck out of #1 and my biggest wish for it was better multi core cpu support to find that this one just made itself way heavier and even top end PCs can't cope, it feels like a repeat of Cyberpunk for the consoles, not releasing it because they know it will run terribly. I stopped playing this one before Christmas and despite wanting to play more the lack of progress particularly with modding has made me lose interest, hoping it picks up in time.

[@Rwdphotos]

I was fully expecting myself to be spending an inordinate amount of time with cs2, but I waited on release “just in case”. Good thing I waited. I’m still waiting.

[@letsplayhbm]

I've played this weekend again. What a mess. Countable framerate, slowdowns, jams in the subway for no reason at all.

[@glacier265]

You know this is such a minor thing to comment on but seeing planes flying around with their landing gear down all the time-- irrelevant to anything but the most tepid, bathwater cosmetics-- just takes me right out of it. It is not just the one thing, though; it is not as shallow as "OOP ONE GRAPHICS ERROR I WANT A REFUND," but each error makes the next one more obvious. The tunnels leading under a layer of seawater. Aircraft pathing through skyscrapers and terrain. Tractor trailers popping wheelies because the train station warehouse and access yard are a quarter pixel off from where they meant to end up. Let ten thousand gas stations blossom. After a dozen small, unrelated problems, every problem is obvious, and it makes it hard to see past them, even if they are absolutely immaterial. Even if the simulation was solid-- which is questionable, I think-- it would be so buried under minute but distracting problems that you may as well be playing covered in bees. I feel like the small problems are discounted because of their pettiness without regard for the psychological effect they have on the major problems, or on eachother, and that is a big part in exacerbating the spiral Ckylines 2 is in. I dunno. Just a view from the fence I guess.

[@wreklesstv3230]

Modern game devs make me laugh. I had EVERY intention to buy this game pre release. But in the producers desperate attempt to get the game out no matter the state it’s in. They seal the deal that so many people won’t end up actually buying their game. Now I could give a shit about CS2

[@Da__goat]

It’s basically what Paradox did to Victoria 3, tried to capitalize on the hype of the prior game and delivered a laughable fart compared to the previous title while also taking a dump on everything they had built in the past. The studio has basically become like EA as it effectively milks its player base while enjoying a monopoly it created from developing a superior product in 2013 compared to every other city building game. The Steam Workshop has single handedly kept all Paradox titles relevant to this day, as modders can often do total conversions of the games and add mechanics that Paradox could only dream of. Paradox turned their back on their community in exchange for whatever tf they are doing now.

[@DuckOfRubber]

If there is a single person at CO dedicating time to the console version right now, that would be a new low in their growing list of lows.

[@ccevideo]

I love CS1 (have over 950 hours in game) but why on earth are people still pre-ordering or buying on day 1? The entire gaming industry has created this problem, people keep complaining about it, yet people keep buying on day 1. I understand it’s your money and you can do whatever you want with it - but I can’t feel sorry for folks when the AAA gaming market has been this way for years. 8 or 9 times out of 10, you are going to get a game with major problems - just accept that fact and wait for all the bug fixes or consider waiting a few months after release. Just my 2 cents……

[@AramoniumGames]

I think Steam should force devs to release a public demo of the game in order to have preorder as an option. To quote Steam's policy: "Running a prepurchase/preorder can also be a risk for both customers and Valve. For these reasons, we do not support running a pre-purchase except in a few rare cases with partners with which we have a well-established relationship and that have a proven track record on Steam." Clearly this isn't enough, as with enough marketing and KZbinr NDAs, you can sell a turd.

[@megaplexXxHD]

The simple fact that they will only release patches with DLC tells me they dont care about the game anymore, its all just about the money…

[@TiagoSousa026]

The turning point (or not) will be when they release the next patch that includes the modding. There should be a turning point because if it is ok it will diverge the attention to the mods while giving them time to fix the game while mods can bandage the game in the meantime.

[@anareel4562]

Mods are still bandaging CS1 together, they're gonna push mods so the devs don't have to act like they care anymore

[@squib2118]

if they officially launched a mod platform the game would’ve been fine tbh

[@nemesisfaust]

i have a dual haswell i7 unclocked rig only at 44.8% use, and 128gb of ddr3 ram, and a titan x gtx superclock 18gb gpu. i use to play city skylines 2 max detail and rez everything windowed and full screen no issues. despite the game being broken with things not working in game from trash, to undergound mob events not even processing and the cia building for task force teams just being a 5% crime reducer. as no logic runs the economy or traffic at all to stipulate actual in game statistics. granted over the time since release they have fixed a lot of issues like physics holes, and things which would cause the game to crash, and city population fixes for out of town jobs and tourism, and they fixed a lot of the production extension buildings to actually have benefits. but still as i recall months ago there is still no interactive statistics and traffic simulations. where one of the best things about city skylines 1 was the scenarios and working to fix the city to have better economical energy resources, or to have so much functional traffic, or to make use of so many rail ways for a train+metro city, or even the fishing industry and harbor connect scenario which i found to be the funest of all the scenarios. except... whatever city skylines 2 did recently... the dam menu alone consume 22% of my gpu from 6% on the menu alone and causes random heat spikes to reach 89c. the card can take it at those temps but it use to run idle at 64-78c... and only when i built a big city did it start to push vertices and go up too 82-84c. but for some reasons the game gets logic confused running up heat temps randomly for no reasons at menu or if lucky to get into a city just crashes randomly. build any road, shift any terrain, wait on screen for idle or idle in menu or settings for more than 5min. rampant heat builds 86-92c peak and game crashes. let me put it this way, i can do world constructions in unreal5.3 with only 24% gpu usages at 78c and i dont get crashes. yet if i launch city skylines 2 and wait in the menu for 5+min i get massive thermal heat spikes. so whatever they broke within recent updates, i can not recommend the game to anyone in this current state... as it is a collateral risk to your personal hardware!!!

[@Darude453]

I hope they find a solution to make look the city a bit more lively. For me, most sections of my city just feel lifeless. People are moving in a totally strange pattern and there are not many cars driving around.

[@billybiggs6766]

My son got me CS2 on the early purchase as a gift. Couldn't wait for it to release and now I have given up on the game and went back to CS1. Hate that my son wasted his money so I am hoping they will get CS2 working. The talk of giving it at a discount really upsets me and there is talk that it will be abandoned and written off as a flop. From what my son has told me is dumping a game right after release happens and all those that purchased the game are just out the money. That sucks!

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

Yep, got it on Game Pass. So glad I found it there because I was actually going to pay real money for it on Steam. This should have been an early access closed beta and the modders brought on board to participate and provide their input. I also got the original game on Xbox One Game Pass. It's an exceptionally good console port, runs perfectly and the controls are very comfortable and straightforward.

[@SWBF2-2005IsBestStfu]

All they had to do was have mod support at launch or at least by the end of 2023, and preferably through the steam workshop (obviously that's not happening) and the community would have rallyed around it and fixed most of not all of the issues you could ever have with it, what I like to call the Bethesda way, that's all I want, I want my traffic manager back....just give us mods, the mod makers can do a better job with the empty canvas then colossal order can

[@sprite5760]

I pre ordered this game so long ago and a couple months after it took away whatever option there was and now has said just announced ever since never got a refund or anything so that’s pretty neat

[@SleeplessRonin]

13:20 Where are the medium density Offices? 1 story at low density, and 100 at high. There's a middle ground that was completely skipped.

[@coryb7404]

I was so excited to play on console they had it up in the store and everything and on release night it completely got removed I was so disappointed that was a clear sign that they were behind

[@mver191]

It runs for me so much better with the DLSS mod already, and it looks much better as well.

[@gustavohartmann5407]

The problem now is with simulation speed, u can't develop a BIG city, it takes ages for an hour to pass in a top of the line CPU

[@mver191]

I know@@gustavohartmann5407 . That is why i only build small cities with full unlock for now.

[@djquad]

I don't see any possibility that they can get console out by the time they promised. Consoles have very strict requirements for performance/stability and it's clear CO doesn't have the capability nor the leadership to pull that off.

[@MrRexxyboy]

All my planned Cities II hours went to Cyperpunk 2077. Safe to say it'll be quite some time before I leave Night City for the greener pastures of CSII. We all want it to be awesome, but for now it's other options.

[@alexsiemers7898]

The fact that both KSP2 and CS2 have faced similar fates within a year of each other is really depressing as someone who really enjoys the first of both games, and even went to pursue Aerospace Engineering due to KSP. Terrible performance at launch, having to pay AAA prices for them, and worst of all is just the agonizingly slow progress on improving performance implying a very shaky foundation. KSP2 released over a year ago by now, after being announced all the way back in 2020, and while the For Science update did give me a reason to play it for a bit, it’s still in a very sorry state.

[@ronsandahl274]

Colossal Order is one of the absolute worst game companies in regards to scamming players over DLC content (along with Blind Squirrel's The Sims series) with 14 Expansion Packs, 21 Content Creator Packs and 23 Music Packs costing well over $250 to get them all. All of the problems that Cities Skyline 2 is having are in regards to money as well, since it would have been better to postpone release and save your game's good name, rather than appeal to investors by meaning a timeline but trashing any good will players have for your company (like Bethesda with Fallout 76 or CD Projekt Red with Cyberpunk 2077). Plus delays in mod support are also tied to money, as Colossal Order tries to figure out how to make players pay for some of that modded content. My guess will be that they will go with either a paid mods idea like Bethesda has been retroactively fitting into games like Skyrim. Or they will have a specific hosting company who pays them as the only option, as House Flipper 2 has done.

[@CrazedKid.]

Im curious how they “fixed” the traffic accidents considering they only went on so long because the responding vehicles are stuck in the traffic behind the accident 🙃 when they implemented re rerouting it should’ve allowed emergency vehicles to drive backwards on one ways

[@jeremymartin1957]

A lot of the lag feels like it’s coming from the simulation of every single sim in the city and all their wants, needs, actions, etc.

[@NoxiousWitch]

Personally, I really REALLY like CS2. Yes preformance is an issue, but that is one of the only issues I have had, also having to play at low graphic settings. But I feel like I can express my creativity with the new road tools and enjoy the game for what it is. I agree CS1 is still the better game, but I believe what Collasul and Paradox have is good, and just needs to be built on more, and CS2 can become ultimately the best city builder ever. I'm not oblivious to the issues, but I know that the devs will fix them, we need to stop bothering them and harassing them, and be patient and wait for them to fix it. (Not talking about videos and etc like this video. Construtive critizim and feedback is always good. I'm talking about people who actually harrass the devs for more work done faster.)

[@PtrkHrnk]

This is disappointing. There are people, like you, who aren't willing to admit the fundamental issues with the game - and the devs are one of them. There are game design problems that can't be solved with simple bugfixes. The game doesn't know what it wants to be, whether city simulator or city painter - it sucks at both. It doesn't have vision. It has no soul... Anyway I don't mean it personally. It's just my point of view. Maybe we could move forward if understood each other better.

[@KeinNiemand]

It may not be build on tough since it failed so hard that they might cancel future update or slow down development.

[@sflscott11]

After 100,000 population, all bets are off as to how the game will perform. Like you said, its like watching a PowerPoint presentation. Until the performance catches up, the game will remain unplayed. I have an Alienware 32GB gaming computer, I will not buy another computer to play this game.

[@VenomGamingCenter]

Your first issue is owning an alienware. I've had two so far, and they've never lasted very long with faulty parts and poor performance.

[@Mungakunga]

I purchased the game at launch and have not played it once. Rather wait until it is in a better state than sully my own experience with the issues it is currently plagued with

[@jovan3612]

Other KZbinrs were praising the franchise and all of the sudden they are all against it, saying it's bad... like they had contract to advertise it and hype it.

[@KennethMesser1]

This is what I was wondering too. They had us all hyping and the a month later they rant about the quality of the game they had early access to.

[@breakyerface]

Well, I think the issue there is that the youtubers who got the game early knew they had an unreleased game at that point, so they were reserving their judgement with the expectation that the obvious issues would be fixed on release. That was the right thing to do. I also think they were right to wait and let the devs cook for a while after the games release before voicing negative opinions. But the dev response, however, makes me think that the game they intended to release was never meant to be the game most of us wanted in the first place though, and that's unfortunate.

[@petedpvlogs]

There is some good thing in Cities Skylines 2 but it was clearly released way to early. I think the game regardless of the launch has a bright future, but if you ignore the bugs which are being patched out the game at the moment feels bland, once you have built one city you have built them all currently. Now of course a team of 30 developers couldn't compete with all the DLC, content creator packs, and countless assets on the Steam workshop. Thats why the they inlisted content creators to make the region packs for the launch of the modding platform. We have already seen unofficially mods like Anarchy make their way into the game, and creators like Sully doing amazing stuff. The game needs a soft relaunch with the modding platform front and centre, and the region packs. I think when they arrive and CO should make it a big deal, people will start to come back to the game myself included who has currently shelved it as I'm not willing to risk using Thunderstore.

[@will3913]

Thank you for an honest look at the state of Cities 2! Like all those Steam reviews, I’m not impressed with the game in its current state. The worst part is how CO has responded to legitimate criticism - it’s an insult to the people who bought the game on the false promises, ugh… I do not want a refund, I want them to use the money we all gave and restore our faith in the game!

[@gustavohartmann5407]

No bike lanes, this a AMERICA CITY SIMULATOR 🦅🦅🦅🚙🚙🚙 We only need Highways and Parking places!!!! I already think that there is too much room for pedestrians in my city! 🔴SARCASM ALERT🔴

[@proloxz6550]

i pre orderd the console edition in june because it was my birthday now the game is going to release after my next birthday

[@Lueluekopter]

14:45 Nice cut there, talking about a broken simulation, going from a helicopter clipping through a building to cars driving in a water-filled tunnel 🤣

[@Remedy_Games]

I was hoping they would include a compass. so w3 could get more in depth detailing done.

[@pbsgph]

i dont expect much from colossal order, still waiting on the traffic fix for cities 1

[@watchout5508]

I uninstalled my copy after my fps went from around 90 to below 20 with only a 50K population...my setup is by no means weak yet they couldn't be bothered to try with optimization, so I gave up. It didnt help there was less than HALF the content present in CS1...cant even add water sources! I totally jst collapsed into apathy when I discovered that... What a damn shame! Maybe I'll try again in another few years. The major mistake Paradox didnt realize is, theyre not the only city building games on the market and while they CLEARLY wasted time with CS2, the indie community sure didnt! My current fav city builder is Timberborn! Great game, cute beavers and minecraft levels of customization! Who could complain with that ❤

[@tomsam1314]

I had been playing CS1 for years and switched over to CS2 on launch, and although it has its issues, I prefer the more complex economy and better road/network tools, traffic AI etc... so won't be switching back to CS1.

[@alexanderprice6612]

I specced my new PC specifically to play this game, and 6 months later I still haven't purchased it because of the issues! Paradox have burnt me before - never again.

[@randallcromer66]

I'm still waiting for the full release of Cities Skylines 2.

[@user-bq3nu9qy5v]

They need to get mod support out in a good state, then the game can rapidly get better, even if it's modders that fix it and not CO.

[@VGMvega]

I can feel the pressure the devs at Colossal Order are going through from here, as i'm also a software engineer. Performance is the issue killing C:S 2, and their entire team should be put to work on this issue. It's clearly bloated.

[@Xizario2]

I bet like colossal have less than 5% actual devs. Like every other software company after some success it get filled with useless people like PM, Marketing,Sales, QA, CTOs, fat Hr departments with diversity officers, accounting, travel, customer support and all kind of non developer positions. When this happens senior devs usually quit and the company will never make any good product anymore.

[@darkwoodmovies]

I feel like every gamer learns the hard way to never trust game developers, no matter how great their legacy and reputation is. I learned this with CS2, after splurging on the deluxe version, then trying to give it chance after chance until the refund timer ran out (it's only 2 hours on Steam). Almost $100 down the drain.

[@BirbarianHomeGuard]

Wish we could just port the road building tools and map dynamics to Cities Skylines

[@Downgrde]

I played it with Xbox game pass for like two weeks and yeah, modding is really needed. I am very glad I didn’t give in to the hype and got it as preorder or something 😂

[@jacobmounts8975]

I haven't played CS2, but just watching youtubers like Biffa and CP play it looks too complicated for my liking. Sure some things look cool and helpful, but I can't see myself paying for a game that I'm not going to enjoy as much. If I play then it'll be CS1.

[@andresmoragomez1732]

I don’t understand how Can they think that is ok to release a game where the previous one is in way better shape and doesn’t have the essentials

[@antalito3047]

I guess the moral of the story is to never ever pre-order a game or even consider buying a game at launch. This game should have never been released in this state unless they release it as an early access one and drop the price to maybe 20EUR. However, as it is now, this game is a scam, all the marketing and weekly showcase videos were suggesting a fully complete game with complex simulation but in reality most of it is broken or just doesn’t work. On top of that, the game has serious performance issues when the whole point of creating CS2 was to get a better optimised game (CS1 is quite outdated). I’m honestly shocked that a company can do this to its customers and get away with it, it kind of feels illegal.🤔 and the fact that they’re not in a rush to patch things up just adds fuel to the fire. Working on the console version when the PC one is completely broken is a joke. It just shows how they don’t care about making a functional game, they just want to pull in more customers.

[@LodewijkVrije]

i'll like CS2 more then CS1. right after they actually deliver on that "better more realistic simulation" part they promised. because as of right now im not seeing it. and i have little hope of the CS2 simulation actually becoming better, especially considering they have already stated that they are not going to change the teleporting of online purchases in the game, showing just how "realistic" of a simulation they have in mind for CS2. even if they miraculously fix the current bugs with the simulation, and make it actually better then CS1. i will still not play the game until they have added cyclists in a FREE update. with cycling becoming more popular and more and more countries starting to look into making cycling infrastructure better in their countries. without cycling infrastructure i am actually unable to "build the city of my dreams" that they claimed i would be able to. for me a straight up similar situation to "transport fever 2" loved the first game, looked great, harder difficulties were challenging, spent hundreds of hours playing it. the second game? well it was really hyped by content creators, the difficulty was downgraded for the console peasants that would now also be able to play, the gameplay loop that worked was destroyed in favor of more detailing options so that content creators could make snazzy videos, and in general the beautifully animated vehicle models were all downgraded. in transport fever 1, planes would come in on a realistic glide slope, they would set flaps, deploy gear, it looked awesome. in transport fever 2, the planes have none of that anymore, they come in at wonky angles, no animated flaps or slats or anything of the sort. and the animation for the landing gear has like 3 frames. just like CS2 planes! which are even worse because they don't have animated anything at all! overall the changes made to transport Fever 2, make the game less fun to play due to the simplified gameplay, less challenging due to reduced cargo needs per town and reduced cargo overall. less fun to look at because of the downgraded vehicle models and animation, and an increased focus on making "beautiful transport routes" instead of "realistic transport routes" so that content creators have the ability to create a non functional meadow, has basically killed the game for me to the point where i don't even have 20% of the play time i have in the first game.

[@cequmaquirarte9966]

Let's see when the mods support works.... The Steam workshop, was a vital part of the susces for the first.

[@user-in3br2qs8x]

It might never work for the 2nd game.

[@briondalion3696]

I'm patiently waiting for the city sim to actually accurately simulate a city. Unfortunately, I am just seeing games that don't make sense, and aren't accurate. Now sims games are inaccurate. What's the point of playing a city sim if it's not going to be an accurate simulation?

[@butterthyme2241]

I am sort of annoyed with myself for buying cities skylines 2. It has so much that I want cities 1 to have, but then it confusingly has so much less than cities 1.

[@medievalpeanut4269]

What about roads? Have you noticed how wonky they are around corners? The lack of traffic controls like modders added to cities 1…

[@chickentoucher55]

Theirs so many little things that jsut annoy me that Ik they won’t change, the weird and to unique looking sims, having huge cranes construct a suburban house, the unrealistic looking car parks worse than cs1, ugly service buildings that you can’t really put down to make it look realistic because they look to unique so many things

[@rageagainstmyhatchet]

I don't want modding. Personally, I want the game fixed. Mods should be used when hard core fans want to mess around and play with the features and assets. Paradox seems to think that mods should be used to provide free labour for breadth of concept. The game should be entirely complete and enjoyable before modders even touch it. Mods should then be a cute little extra. The "traffic management mod" for CS1 for example was essential for actually solving traffic issues... And that's not even present in CS2 vanilla.

[@bitmau5]

You know what I just realised? Sim City ran into this issue a deacade ago. How long before a replacement in the genre? For real. Paradox fk'd this up in more ways than I can count. Stay the fk away from anything Paradox, the will just redirect the funds to make number go up. They don't care about you, they don't care about gaming; they only care about profit and that much is clear.

[@HCMCDrives]

Not just the lag issues, my problem is just the way it looks. Everything feels grey, dull and flat.

[@computernerdtechman]

I was a big fan of CS-1. I will come back in a year or two to see if Paradox has finally got the sh*t together and see if CS-2 is finally ready for prime time. I have a great distaste from Paradox and Colossal Order for serving us a half-cooked chicken giving us all salmonella poisoning.

[@rickyspanish4792]

I'm less optimistic. I don't think this codebase is salvageable. But who knows :) I do not understand how they can make a game they already made, with similar graphics, arguably a simpler simulation.. but then also making it perform slower?? How?

[@Mintaka85-01]

i just reached 100,000 cims and it definitely turned into a slide show for me too… they really need to optimize the simulation. My city is literally unplayable now. very sad 😢

[@dunnosen64]

I have a almost 7 year old computer with a rynzen 1700x cpu and a vega 56 gpu. all i did was lower my screen resolution from 4k to 1080p and i can run a city with 220000 cims with decent fps. Of course it looks better in 4k but i don't have a super computer. You can also play with LOD, level of detail, it gives a little but not that much compared to screen resolution.

[@KeinNiemand]

the simulation not the problem its the graphics that causing the performance problems.

[@Mintaka85-01]

@dunnosen64 I've got AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6 core with 32gb ram and rtx 3060ti. I did what you recommended, and it went from 10fps to about 20fps, and the simulation speeds do not reflect upon anything moving in the game. They still move so slowly that I'd have to wait hours to diaagnos traffic bottlenecks and just see how general traffic flow is going on any new or existing road. Something doesn't smell right. I've got all graphical settings on disabled or low, including lod. It's so frustrating bc I can play cs1 at 60fps with all graphical settings on high or ultra... I don't really want to play a game where I'm just staring off into oblivion, waiting for things to happen eventually. Thanks for your tips, tho. Maybe they would work well for someone with a better setup than I.