JUNKYARD LS ACCESSORY TEST. FAN, PUMP & ALT- WHAT ARE THEY WORTH?

[@autobotavengerfireballxl5339]

This channel needs more recognition. Consistent uploads everyday for Christ sakes And impressive results.

[@mannieecker8602]

The youtube algorithm is going to catch on here and this channel will be 100k a year from now...

[@dallynsr]

Finn Balor Amen!

[@sp33dybiscuit]

For sure this guy is my favorite analytical motor tuning channel! He’s amazing! I’m actually building my 2014 gen 4 ls1 based off data here for the most part.

[@edwardseaton4492]

indeed

[@RAWRMotorsports]

Facts 💯💯

[@OGbqze]

This channel deserves more credit! The amount of time and effort this must have taken is unreal.

[@jaydunbar7538]

If you have ever read Hot Rod Magazine articles there's a fair chance you were reading his work.

[@88tcoupe]

@@jaydunbar7538 Or Popular Hot Rodding.

[@trickmytrailer]

Just about any magazine about engines lol: Hot Rod, Super Chevy, Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords, and many more. I think he did a lot of stuff with imports back in the day as well but I may be mistaken.

[@88tcoupe]

@@trickmytrailer I'm not sure about the import stuff, but I always bought the Engine Masters magazines. He always had good articles in there. I'm sure I m one of the very few that wishes Engine Masters was still being published. Yes, I realize there is a video version of it but not the same to me.

[@trickmytrailer]

The end of the magazine era breaks my heart.

[@thedude7726]

Your killing it with content man.

[@nameless4031]

You’re

[@BadLuckGarage]

24* peak timing is still way more than a stock gen3 5.3 has. The stock tune also has torque management neutering it. AFRs are a lot leaner as well because power enrichment in a stock truck tune is pretty much non-existent....which is why so little timing is used( and they STILL pull more timing due to knock🤦🏼‍♂️) I’d say if you ran that same 5.3 with all accessories on a stock pcm with stock tune on your engine dyno you’d be lucky to see 300hp.....maybe 310hp max on a really healthy gen 3 engine. An L33 with the factory flat tops may do a tiny bit better.

[@fitzeesfabrications]

Very interesting. The gains are there. Was a time finding 5 to 10 hp was everything. Seems today it a drop in the bucket. I learn something new every time you post a video. Keep them coming. This is one of my top channels

[@kevindrury8390]

I told a lot of these guys around here, when we used to go to dragstrip, that a alternator didn't cost much power as long as your battery is charged and in good shape

[@jaydunbar7538]

It is true, it's the booming stereo that causes the draw.

[@mikesmain]

Jump on my request on the latest comment, I want to see high amp draw vs the factory accessory configuration. If we move the water to amp powered, and even a electric ac compressor... What then?

[@kevinkalivoda3442]

@@mikesmain I have not ever seen a 12 volt A/C compressor. Just the 300 ac volt A/C compressor used on gm hybrids. Would be worth seeing

[@ktmr8]

Like you said Richard no one thing has any dramatic effect.. but the sum of the whole is dramatic as you demonstrated! So thanks for that test. Attention to the little things are collectively important when maximising a setup; and they do separate the winners from those trailing behind in many instances.

[@stlchucko]

The exhaust pipe/muffler flows enough to support stock to mild power. The biggest restriction in the stock stuff is the cats, and I’ve heard 10-20hp from a reputable local tuner based on the chassis dyno he’s used for about 20 years.

[@onemoremisfit]

I know from my own 2002 5.3 truck that deleting the cats will wake up the exhaust more than anything, throttle response becomes noticeably sharper, exhaust note becomes louder with more crack. Also my personal experience is with that engine in a 6000lb truck that doesn't see a lot of full throttle, full length headers aren't worth it. Even with a Whipple supercharger at 6psi boost, they're not worth the underhood heat, plug wire issues, plug change headaches, eating starters, 4X4 clearance, so I'm going back to manifolds.

[@andrewdenmark145]

Nothing better than dyno pulls in the morning keep em coming rich

[@700HpVette]

My 96 Corvette LT-4 now makes 400 rwhp and 386 ft lbs, 52mm TB, big custom cam, long tubes, aluminum flywheel and electric water pump. Stock block, crank, heads and valves. 12.91@108mph not the greatest launch and slow into 3rd gear (synchros ain't in the best of shape). It's definitely capable of mid 12s and makes way over 100hp more than stock with only these very simple but well planned out mods...

[@BadLuckGarage]

I’d love to see you do a “poor mans race accessory” setup in that same engine. Cone filter, no fan, headers, and only accessories are water pump and alternator. It’s pretty common to ditch the clutch fan, power steering, and ac on a budget “racecar” so it would be interesting to see what that setup netted power wise since it’s probably the single most common setup when building a budget racer.

[@richardholdener1727]

didn't we just show that

[@BadLuckGarage]

Not that specific combo brother.

[@andyharman3022]

This is a great test to keep in mind when watching Richard's other dyno videos. The effect of all the accessories, fan, airbox, tune, and headers was worth 10% at peak torque and 13% at peak power.

[@timdontwannasay5889]

On the edge of my seat jedi Holdner! Everything I was thinking you were explaining! PERFECT CONTENT! Where are you selling your merchandise?

[@darrengibson644]

Great info. Perfect way to start a Friday of a 3 day weekend here in Ontario!

[@autobotavengerfireballxl5339]

For real

[@richardholdener1727]

just wait til the weekend

[@middlesiderrider]

Have a happy Family Day DG

[@jefferygardiner8953]

@@richardholdener1727 Can you do a home made starlite exhaust extractor wrap test. Would be very interesting content

[@Brad-kq9oc]

Great video Richard, I believe Friedberg did a video on fans before he hid behind a paywall. I remember the old 4 blade steel fan stole 25hp or there abouts. Great to see Hands Holdener is back

[@carportshenanigans5918]

They also tested the affects through a radiator and shroud...surprising amount of HP hidden there. I would say there is no need for Holdener to do that test, unless you didn’t see that engine master’s episode and don’t want to pay Discovery for the privilege of being able to.

[@nickolaswhite4288]

That’s the same dyno cell, I’m sure he was present. He is engine wizard, beyond master lol

[@carportshenanigans5918]

@Nickolas White, I was actually wondering about that...Westech seems like it’s the place to be!

[@richardholdener1727]

those were bad

[@richardholdener1727]

westech is the place for me

[@RJZJR1]

New truck... Elec ps, elc fans, streighter air intake... Hmmm. Guess that's why they do it. Great video .. thanks Rich .. you need an Emmy.

[@canadianrcs9931]

So glad I found this channel!!! Love the mod motor content as there isn’t much new info on that motor coming out. Keep it up!

[@kwik440]

Oh my gosh Richard!! You have tested EVERYTHING !! i don't even know what to test next.. real world testing= holy crap.. THANK YOU !!!

[@manitoublack]

This is really good to see how you get your 'happy dyno' numbers ;) I understand why you test the way you test gives the most consistent results. However it's great to have a look how much power is taken up in the all accessories as this is how motors run in cars.

[@BadLuckGarage]

It’s also important to keep in mind that this still doesn’t account for drivetrain loss. So this same engine in your vehicle makes 13-18% less power at the wheels on a chassis dyno. 😉

[@32bitcal69]

Just take the cran hp numbers, -20-25 hp for alternator, water pump, and power steering. (most people run efans) Then multiply that by 0.85 for approximate drivetrain loss. If its making 400hp to the crank, then it's closer to 375-380 after accessories. Multiply by drivetrain loss... and you're looking at 300-323 whp. Should be pretty damn close.

[@johnrodabaugh4887]

I normally see the stock truck tune in the 99-04 5.3 trucks running in the 14.0:1 afr range until about 5500 rpm due to the huge power enrichment delay in the stock the. The timing is normally in the 20-22° range. Keep up the awesome work!

[@james10739]

Well 14.68 but ya

[@johnrodabaugh4887]

@@james10739 very rarely do they actually run stoich at full throttle, if they do it's indicative of a bad MAF sensor

[@stephanouellet3673]

Last week on my Tahoe Z71 2004 5.3 ,i remove just cats, for the mpg is a big difference,and i feel the power difference.Very nice test again Richard ;)

[@orangetruckman]

This is awesome! These are honest and real numbers. No restricted information like in a magazine, it’s pure input for people’s brain. I freaking love it 😆 thank you

[@drdanimalsize]

I love the way that all of your tests are very in-depth. I'd really like to see you do some chassis dyno stuff sometimes just to see maybe what stuff like fans and full exhaust could be worth.

[@richardholdener1727]

CHECK OUT THE VIDEO ON A FULL EXHUAST AND THE ACCESSORIES

[@drdanimalsize]

@@richardholdener1727 I'll search for it

[@MLFranklin]

It is awesome that you are doing these tests and answering these questions.

[@teacherm96]

Great job my brother keep the facts coming 👏

[@UnityMotorSportsGarage]

Richard to me this was one of your best Videos... Great Job!!! I found almost 20 rwhp by removing a huge "Flex" fan!!! They KILL power big time!

[@richardholdener1727]

yep-those r bad

[@justin_parks]

Most of the factory truck tunes I have seen have "power enrichment" basically turned off. So it never actually gets richer, it stays closer to stoich. How the factory keeps them together idk, but I have verified this with a wideband. It never adds additional fuel. Matt from sloppymechanics has documented the same

[@dilsher12]

I think the under stock parameters the PE kicks in after a few seconds of wide open throttle operation like 10-15 secs can't remember the exact number

[@justin_parks]

@@dilsher12 some of them have a delay of 15, 30, or 60 seconds. And an rpm delay of 5500, with throttle over 80 some percent. It's damn near disabled.

[@justin_parks]

I just looked at a stock 01 sierra tune I have, 90% throttle above 5.5k rpm with a 0 sec delay. It redlines at 6k, 1-2 and 2-3 shift is set at 5200. So it never goes above 5500. It's disabled.

[@justin_parks]

@@RedXray yes I know, but he asked how the factory gm calibrations ran at wot.

[@bmasontv]

Awesome video! This is stuff that I was always wondered. Thank you!

[@Cyberhound-vu1re]

The stock truck tune typically hits about 18-20° at WOT when Power Enrichment kicks in. It's delayed by 2 seconds until 5,000 RPM

[@ChurchAutoTest]

My 03 Tahoe 5.3 2wd stock tune commands 11.8:1 at WOT until 3200 rpm. After that it rapidly commands richer mixtures until it reaches a commanded 10:1 AFR (1.336 enrichment ratio) at 4800, then leans out a bit after that. And that doesn't even take into account any catalyst protection enrichment. Base timing, assuming no knock learning, is 15-17 deg (it actually rolls off hard above the torque peak, kinda the opposite of what you'd expect), but there is also an enrichment timing adder of 6-9 degrees depending on targeted enrichment ratio. It won't run those numbers on 87 octane because of knock though. When I tuned my vehicle at 100k miles it picked up about 25 whp just from leaning it out, adding timing and eliminating burst knock and torque management stuff. Still amazingly quick for an old horse (0-60 in 6.7 on dragy at 5400 lbs with me in it). Gonna drive it till it rusts away.

[@BlindBatG34]

Great video as always. I would have guessed the drag from the fan should increase with RPM until the air starts to cavatate then become a constant. It's great that you are posting all of these videos. If someone gets ticked at the results they can grab their own camera, book a dyno session and instantly post a rebuttal. What an age we live in...

[@richardholdener1727]

it might be different with a shroud pulling through rad

[@dustinjackson8646]

@@richardholdener1727 Yeah however it would likely disengage at about 2500 rpm like most clutch fans do. I think this test was comperable to that.

[@shannonmedley4058]

16 degrees total from factory. I picked up 10 hp on my lq4 6.0 from water Pump alone , to the tires on a dyno jet. Great vids btw

[@AB-80X]

Waterpump and fan are the two places I find it matters the most. A fan can easily rob 15-20 hp. up top. An electric fan takes maybe 2-2.5 hp on the alternator when it kicks in.

[@TheBukesde]

This video is simply amazing! Richard, I cannot mention it enough, your channel is awesome! Greatings from Germany

[@richardholdener1727]

Thanks again!

[@donaldliverance2597]

Dude your the single most useful source of knowledge iv found

[@richardholdener1727]

thnx-more on the way

[@mannieecker8602]

This is a great channel, lots of good solid info. The cooling fan will be worth 20 or even 30 HP when engaged, but if the engine temp is hot enough and the heat load thru the radiator is enough to move the thermal spring the engine power will be down allready at this time due to increased temperature load......If the engine has gotten this warm it needs brought back down, I feel if you can run at 160-170 the 10 hp from the factory fan is a real number you will get. Great video Richard.

[@LunarOutlawsGarage]

If you could I would like to see how you optimize a 6.0 LS, 317 heads, with twin turbos, and 180° headers like my plans for my 1971 GS. I would say please @ me but I will see it as soon as I wake up in the morning. Keep up the good work I am really digging this format

[@nickolaswhite4288]

LunarOutlaw’s Garage best way to optimize your set up is use what you’ve got available.

[@LunarOutlawsGarage]

Nickolas White that is what I have except I still have to fabricate the 180° headers

[@ZacLowing]

I'm looking at this thinking of how before 1972, when they switched from gross to net HP, those high numbers are what you thought you where buying.

[@ZacLowing]

@Curtis Fleabag modern dyno tests on stock engines prove that none of them where underrated except the 428 335hp. I love the old cars, but I won't pretend they where a couple of swaps away from 600hp. Most dyno tests show they made under 400 at best

[@AB-80X]

Not only that, in the 90's SAE J1349 was implemented. Bot those old net and gross numbers were using the old Land and Sea 507 factor. Some of these cars were properly limp. No wonder Pontiac underrated their Ram Air III and IV to avoid insurance premiums, and GM did the same with their performance stuff. Not sure Ford ever did it too much, but then again most of their engines were pretty small to begin with.

[@XL883CNick]

Very nice real world example. Certainly clarifies why your initial pulls are so much higher than the OEM's ratings and shows how much power stock trim really eats.

[@philthelawnman]

The factory is not tested with all that on it. They actually have the practice of only pulling lower rpm. This is for cheaper insurance rates in the 70s. And it never went away.

[@Chubbza5]

One point about the fan at the end, I believe it's been proven elsewhere that the biggest improvement to drag is removing the shroud because the fan doesn't funnel the air and create the same drag if it has no housing. Just a thought! Thanks for showing each step, I've always wondered what the numbers would look like if you ran full accessory drives.

[@waynebollentin989]

Really good video. These things do make a difference at the track. On a mostly stock foxbody. Things like this was the difference between running 13s to 14s or 13s to 12s. Many of us that raced a foxbody back in the 90s at some point ran a short belt and electric fan if they understood the difference it made. With that and a few basic bolt on's like exhaust, pulleys, timing, gears and a tire. We ran 12s all day with the stock cam, intake, TB, etc. Yes that's with a 5sp. Low 13s with a stock AOD and converter but the AOD was a hp thief. The biggest mistake people make is the combination of parts. I'd see a guy with a stock motor but install a 75mm TB and couldn't expect that was the reason he went slower. Same thing when guys go to the track and run 100-116 octane race fuel on a basically stock N/A engine. Doesn't do shit for that stock motor. The right combination is everything and every little bit in the right direction helps ET and Mph. Again really enjoyed this video. Brought back some good memories lol. When I think back. It was more fun running 9s or slower than the stress and cost of 7s and faster. Although a hard stressful day at the track is still better than a hard stressful day at work any day.

[@richardholdener1727]

i still have my 1988 5.0L LX-original owner

[@gtbmjb7192]

Excellent video! Really helps to dispel the idea that accessories are total killers. Your testing format is actually very accurate IMO, because it shows exactly what the engine itself is doing at each phase without any other of the variables that are infinitely possible. Naysayers are always there, regardless. So TEST ON!!!!!

[@colefabracing2006]

You should test the power steering hooked up to a rack making bypass pressure. I think you would loose another 10hp. In this configuration the ps pump was really just free spinning. With mild friction loss. The 10hp was likely almost all from the wp.

[@scottsigmon926]

Now this is great content. I love this channel.

[@kyleandrewburgess]

If the fan shroud is in place and the air restriction of the air being pulled through the radiator could see over 20hp. But as the speed of the vehicle increases the wind actually helps the fan get through the radiator.

[@OddBuildsOnTheCheap]

The only thing I disagree with here, is the open throttle body we all know in a real world hot engine bay situation that is going to cause crazy high IATs and lose power. The fan clutch situation yielded a much higher result than I expected as well. Great content Richard!

[@brandonpayne1207]

I think people get too caught up in the actual numbers and forget it's all relative. Even with all the accessories, it's still not "realistic" cause you're still missing the drivetrain loss and tire size. Dyno testing is more about keeping your variables as constant as possible to see the affects of a single change.

[@tunerdadtunerdad7927]

Exactly....People forget all the variables and think their 5.3 is making 500hp with a cam swap.

[@Hitman-ds1ei]

Think everyone has had a theory and everyone has been curious as to actual figures so well done on what might appear as something basic turns out to be quite complex factually, keep it up were watching and waiting

[@lazylizard6532]

I would love to see what a seized thermal fan clutch does to your numbers. Had one seize at about 4500 rpm cruising down the road with a manual transmission. Felt like I was dragging a parachute. Put the fan in the trunk and went on my way.

[@mrmidnight32]

You just saved me a couple hundred bucks, I was literally just looking at a electric water pump and AC delete to free up power.

[@waynebollentin989]

In combination it's worth it. I don't believe the only take away of the video is it's not worth it. No hp is really cheap unless it's from a bottle lol. Not many other ways to pick up that much power specially on a N/A engine for the price. If you have to pay labor then it depends. If you race at the track and looking for a little extra and depending on the vehicle. A short belt is an option. You change belts at the track and bypass everything but the water pump and alternator. It was always worth a few tenths. Could be the difference between 12s to 13s or etc depending how obviously how fast the vehicle is. Good luck.

[@mrmidnight32]

Wayne Bollentin I’d rather just save that extra $300 and run a cam and if I need more just run boosted. I’m a huge fan of boost. Almost all of my toys end up getting boosted. Don’t usually stay NA for long.

[@waynebollentin989]

@@mrmidnight32 boost or nitrous makes everything better lol. Water pump not always necessary but if you have a clutch fan like in this video. It's worth every penny to remove it. Not a flex fan either. Most clutch fans kill less power than flex fans but the electric fan is worth 10-20hp and even little more depending on fan size, blade amount, blade pitch and the rpm range. I agree on the water pump and it's not for everyone specially on a budget. Guys that race and specially bracket race really benefit from it though. With boost the cam isn't a must either honestly. Most engines do very well with the stock cam with boost. Specially with a low boost kit. Good luck regardless.

[@mrmidnight32]

Wayne Bollentin I’m just doing the cam for NA gains and the classic muscle lope sound to hold me off before I go forced induction. Also hold me off and not blow all my cash at once haha

[@waynebollentin989]

@@mrmidnight32 yeah can't disagree agree with the sound of a good cam. Even if it only picked up 10hp I'd be happy because of the sound lol. I installed my first cam at 17 on a sbc. Been around cars since I was little kid but never did anything like a cam own my own. So I had a friend that was little older than me that was a mechanic and engine builder and he suppose to help me. Me being young and so impatient I couldn't wait for him to get to my home. So I started and had it finished by the time he got there. When I turned the key and it started. It was one of the happiest times I can remember and I'm now in my mid 40s lol.

[@chinoperez422]

Respect for the time you put in instead of just assuming.

[@kevinengland4042]

A 100% stock tune will be near stoich until power enrichment comes in (5500 rpm and wot for more than 1 second), then it drops to 10.5-11.0 afr. The stock timing is typically 15-22° depending on the stock file and some of the parameters in the adder tables.

[@nadronnocojr]

Any chance of seeing Any magnum builds , 5.9 Ideas for Maintaining durability with adding 100 horse Or more .. Love all your hard work and all the work of filming I can’t imagine the long nights tuning it’s great to see such concise work .. awesome channel

[@rotaxtwin]

That's as real-world as it gets. Great stuff. If only this kind of info was available when I was a hot rodding kid.

[@paintballpartutd]

Id bet the factory exhaust being a restrictive y pipe and emissions and microwave size muffler might be worth a decent amount and thats usually the first thing that gets modded on a v8

[@TheCummins1212]

deez nuts Your description of the stock muffler got me. Hilarious

[@gregallen9065]

deez nuts my old LS 2001 Silverado had the aftermarket duals rust off so I just stuck a big 3 inch inlet muffler on it right after the stock cats/Y pipe......no way was I paying or plumbing duals onto it at this point. With the crash of truck and suv prices after gas first hit $4 a gallon a few years ago these trucks can be had for under $2500. It is a rust bucket now but the frame is still solid and the drivetrain is still good (5.3 with cam and looser (2800 stall) torque convertor) so I just keep it going mechanically. Honestly, I noticed no real difference between the duals and the big 3" inlet muffler off the Y pipe set up. I did notice a difference on both of those VS the short time I ran it with an open exhaust off of the Y pipe......LOL....but a bit loud. I could put a better muffler on it but just not wanting to put the $$$$ into it and it is mainly a tow rig now that is not used much. If I had the finances I would have finished it....since I had rebuilt and beefed up rest of drivetrain for a 6.0 swap but got sick after doing rest of drivetrain. Having lived through the dark days of the late 70's, 80's and early 90's I can attest to how much it matters putting a better flowing exhaust in place of the horrible factory stock ones....especially the later 70's and early/mid 80's cars.

[@evhenii887]

I am from Ukraine we just do not have these cars, but I have gmc savana, 4.8 and for me this car is obviously the best in the world. Thank you for your videos now I know exactly how to make this car fun. By the way, a lot of things have already been done in terms of the sound of the seats of the cabin headlights. Also cold intake, increased exhaust gave acceleration to 100 kmh 12 seconds, but ahead of the installation. Thank you for your videos.

[@tommoats8483]

Love your videos, but this time I have to question the results. You are exactly correct about the result with the fan. The fan was not fully locked, problem one. Problem two, the fan was not pulling air through a restriction. You needed a heat transfer device commonly called a radiator with a fan shroud. This would have been your biggest power and torque subtractor. The other items like the power steering pump, was the pump moving oil or empty? If empty the only lose would have been the friction of the pump and pulley with belt. Same as the generator and A/C pump, unless they were under load the power lose is minimal as you showed. I would love to see you do a redo on the test but more real world.

[@someguy2741]

When I removed my heavy buick 7 bladed clutch fan off my 455 the engine seemed to rev so much easier and smoother and quieter! I can here the engine sounds better... i can even hear the air being sucked into the engine above the dual flowmasters. It also seemed to pick up way more horsepower. It made for a better driving experience all around.

[@SSbigblock454]

I think you're findings are accurate for the fan. I tested the theory. My truck has a fan clutch. I ran it at the track with the fan removed on the first run of the day, and with the fan installed the rest of the runs and saw no difference in ET OR MPH. if it gained anything it was minimal. To replace the fan clutch with a complete electrical fan kit wasn't worth it to me.

[@markbulva4188]

I swapped my factory clutched fan for a flex a lite electric fan kit on my 04-5.4L F150 and picked up 2mpg on the highway, it revved much quicker and the a/c worked way better.

[@Bob-Sacamano]

Would love to see a test with a catted (stock high cell count) exhaust versus one with cat deletes.

[@AB-80X]

Throw a 700 cell cat on there and use SAE correction, and voila, you are at factory rated power. So interesting when people compare their home brew blown LS3 to a factory LT5. Only one of them actually makes 750 hp, and it is not the blown LS3 tested in the Westech fashion.

[@mxguy2438]

Another very useful video. This will help with applying corrections directly to compare different rating methods or to make performance estimates.

[@prestonphillips3977]

Factory timing is way lower 14 degrees total at WOT. Commanded AFR's also drop down to 10.8.

[@lucysmith4242]

Talk about conservative

[@BurtJr26]

Factory tune for a gen 4 5.3 i believe mine was at 23 degrees of timing and it stopped at 5300-5400

[@bigturclakelife8980]

Love your videos bud answering all my questions been binge watching like crazy thanks

[@jasonbirch1182]

I'd like to see it locked out clutch. I was running that on my drift car and I'm going Windstar fans and big alternator.

[@brentspence3379]

If this was a 2500 pickup the PE is usually locked out and it commands 14.6 at wot. Timing is usually below 20 degrees.

[@nickolaswhite4288]

Brent Spence it’s not 6.0 OS, he is running same parameters as a well set up PE and my stocker trucks always put out 13.4-13.9 AFR and spark is all over the place but you will see 34-36* on the scanner after a full tank and computer is on high octane spark table.

[@brentspence3379]

The van p59's were also pretty much locked out for PE. They command a steady 14.6 afr. Timing is a crap shoot lol. I've seen 15-25 but I think the average is lower than 20. The 1500's are different/maybe better but definitely not consistent.

[@4BillC]

Definitive proof even just taking off the fan is worth a few hp! Thanks!

[@jakewade7388]

Finally! Someone that shows real results!

[@FOURCED]

Great Work Richard and along the sames lines I would love to see you measure the coolant flow you are getting out of that electric pump. I'm betting its far less than what they rate it at.

[@HioSSilver1999]

Great test Richard! Been creating ways of doing some of this for a good while now.

[@Burban12]

My factory tune was in my 2002 suburban and stock timing was 11 degrees. Afr at wot was 14.6afr. Power enrichment was off from factory

[@notme8121]

I would like to see a very simple test one day. Simply run any motor on the dyno then pause a few minutes run it again pause and run it five times just to see how accurate the dyno is between pulls and if any temperature change affects it much.

[@richardholdener1727]

planned

[@donnelhuddleston2478]

Thanks you’re the man, I been a fan of yours since way before you did the Silver State Classic for Fast Fords & Muscle Mustangs, I absolutely love a car that handles great ! Ps: Ever since I first started driving, I have definitely been wondering how much power the stock mechanical/clutch fan robs from the engine (I kinda figured 15 - 35 HP depending) during a full throttle rip, please answer this question for us all. Thanks

[@Mattvardaman]

The factory tune In hp tuners has 10 degrees of peak timing in the low octane table and 15 in the high octane spark table. Also power enrichment is basically off. It has to be above 5000 rpm for 60 seconds to activate. A tune is worth 25-30hp on a stock gen 3 truck motor.

[@b00stedss63]

I just pulled the facfactory tune out of a 2002 5.3l Silverado max timing in the high octane table was 11* afr was 12.3 low octane table only had 6* in it max.... theres also a PE delay of 2 seconds at 5000 rpm before PE will come on

[@tech1302]

Yes if he was running 4 degrees from optimum then he is at probably 24 degrees when he tested with a supposed "stock" tune. I tune with hptuners and agree with everything you said.

[@88tcoupe]

Another great video! Thank you for putting these out there!

[@chrismesserschmitt6350]

love what you're doing with this channel. real world proof of stuff I'm generally interested in. keep it up 👍🤘

[@tonyasbury1101]

Teaching me things I did not know and glad I watched

[@AB-80X]

Don't forget to also count in SAE correction. Take all you see here and deduct another 5% or so.

[@nerradnosnhoj5122]

I wanted to ask if the Alt was fuctioning , ( charging a battery , with a partial load ) as it causes a slight load compared to just mounted on acting like a weighted pulley with no load , alt will add load when say daytime lights are on , heater or a/c running , stereo etc ... good tests here , there have been tests of different fans and horsepower loss , and it is surprising how much just the fan will cost, running electric fans still put draw on alternator so still cost HP unless you have electric fan disabled while dyno testing or racing down the 1/4 mile

[@richardholdener1727]

there was no alt load-not sure if that amount will show

[@badexamplegarage]

Absolutely crushing it here. Quality content. Keep it up Richard!!!!

[@robertfalis9382]

i think timing is more like 16-18* if im not mistaken

[@colefabracing2006]

I would like to see the power steering actually doing work. In your test it was just free spinning. The 10hp from the accessories was likely almost all the water pump plus a little friction from the other accessories.

[@richardholdener1727]

the PS had fluid in it

[@colefabracing2006]

@@richardholdener1727 was it making pressure? (IE attached to a steering rack where it would be bypassing the pressure valve) or did you just have the line looped? on bmws we have seen over 10 numbers from PS alone. Also thanks for the replay

[@Mario_Marques]

Nice test as usual. One thing, the fan robs less power without the radiator, the radiator causes more drag to the fan in high revs. I dont know how significt it is on that engine but on Audi and Mercedes, old Cars with a modern tune sometimes you are around 15hp on some situations.

[@jamesschneider3329]

Maybe set up a heat gun aimed at the fan clutch. I was wondering how much power the fan by itself took because at this time, my work vehicle is powered by a 4.8 and the fan clutch is always engaged even on a 20 degree day. I know it makes the ecm choose a lower gear a lot quicker than it normally would. The vehicle is a small UPS delivery truck, and it is geared to be at 2800-3k in overdrive at 65 mph. 3rd gear is about 4k at the same speed. BTW, the factory tune on this vehicle has a vehicle speed governor of 65 mph.

[@kenjohnson765]

Thanks for doing this, Confirms what I had been thinking all along...

[@sdragnut]

Good stuff as always!! Wish you could have taken off one accessory at a time.

[@richardholdener1727]

i did

[@Onalky87]

I believe timing is closer to 16-18* factory but I’d have to get my laptop to see

[@brentspence3379]

And if it's a 3/4 ton the fuel commands 14.6 at wot. You can pick up 40 wheel on a tune.

[@austindoud273]

I thought the factory tune had like 30° pinged its balls off then settled at like 20

[@brentspence3379]

@@austindoud273 the very early ones

[@BadLuckGarage]

Try 9* brother. I'm looking at the stock timing tables from a 2006 5.3 silverado right now.

[@Breakitjake]

Can u test difference between clutch fan with shrould and rad. And then test e fans ran off the alternator to show any parasitic loses from converting mechanical energy to electrical back to mechanical. And this channel rocks btw!!!

[@richardholdener1727]

it would be a good gain getting rid of mech fan-even with extra load on the alt

[@warriorzeke]

I'm curious to if you had a shroud around the fan and had it sucking through a radiator and AC condenser if that would cause more drag on the fan.

[@richardholdener1727]

I think it would change

[@awebke]

you should do turbo LS but intercooler vs no intercooler or even different types of intercoolers.

[@richardholdener1727]

i did that

[@HioSSilver1999]

Now add e85, 1.8 roller rockers, crank scraper, ported tb and intake or a fast set up and you look to gain another 25-30. That lil' 5.3 will run like a different animal in the real world then.

[@jacobburskey3044]

For a stock 2004 4.8 spark table, roughly wot spark for the high octane table .72 to .92 cylinder airmass levels is 18.8 degrees, not including any of the adder or subtractor tables. On the low octane tables its a measly 12 degrees lol, a lot to be had there.

[@andrewmorgan8507]

I have said it for years it's all about optimization. Lots of little things can get you a big thing later.

[@golfr59]

Love these videos.... really good content. There is a small problem with this test though (besides the fan). The water pump and the fan can be converted to elctric, however, you will need to run an alternator to drive them. On your dyno runs you power the waterpump and the electric fan (in this case coditioned water in the dyno cell) from an external source. In other words, the total difference as horsepower is even smaller in a street application where you will have to run the alternator and draw from it for water pump and electric fans. I have tested the mechanical water pump conmverted to a Meziere electric pump and it netted no more than 3 horsepower by itself. Still love your videos and they still are correct in the facts. One just needs to understand the small details of every application.

[@nickolaswhite4288]

Golf R59 driveshaft alternator is the alternative I believe

[@richardholdener1727]

the draw on the alternator is minimal since your system already has a full battery

[@n8_b123]

I think if the mechanical fan had a shroud and a radiator in front of it, you would have had another 3-4hp lost. Instead of just having the drag of the fan moving through the air, you would have the added resistance of the fan trying to draw air through the radiator. You can also open up those viscous couplings for most cars and jam some washers in to lock up the coupling, so you dont have to worry about temp as much.

[@daddyofallideas8613]

spark plug shootout would be cool, N/A see if E powers are worth it or best plug out there!

[@david63390]

What I want to see is the HP TQ difference between a regular clutch fan like you tested. vs the electrical amp load that a quality factory or aftermarket fan will draw. In a typical street car you need an alternator. Most good fans pull 70 amps or so on startup. Then say 30-50 amps running. So real world Power gain results may just cancel out. However going down the drag strip with the electric fan off would gain the 7-8 HP as you tested.

[@richardholdener1727]

I think the measurable amp load on the alternator would be minimal

[@jonathenholmes1882]

This video was awesome a lot was explained keep up the great work

[@cashsigns17]

Can u run a 5.3 LM7 with a 54-459-11 Comp Cam

[@damianellis3554]

Thank you for the information where can we get your book

[@richardholdener1727]

amazon

[@damianellis3554]

the name of the book is

[@Turbo_Todd]

He has more than one. Just search his name.

[@tylerzielinski463]

Was the altenator under any load? I imagine generating 100+ amps would eat up significant power

[@Stevesbe]

Yeah turning that electric water and a set of electric fans takes alot amps

[@MJTAUTOMOTIVE]

@@Stevesbe What Fans ? And the electric water pump is run from power from the Dyno.

[@Turbo_Todd]

I wondered about the alternator as well. Should have loaded it somewhat

[@Stevesbe]

@@MJTAUTOMOTIVE I was saying if there was electric fans and water pump pulling power from the alternator it would take some hp