Just be a Traditional Woman - $h*t Therapists Say

[@personified3500]

“Before I speak on this as a therapist, I wanna hear what you have to say as a woman” is just really thoughtful

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"I wanna hear what you have to say as a woman" What is a woman?

[@BunnyValentine439]

​@@thomasmaughan4798 Don't be cringe bro.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@BunnyValentine439 "Don't be cringe bro." Why? Your words sound like the newest, or at least less old, version of social control mechanisms. Do "x" or you'll be cringe! And if you are cringe I won't like you! Just in case you want to be liked by a "BunnyValentine".

[@acelibrarian]

​@@thomasmaughan4798ok hon. Don't be a cad, a bounder, an idiot, a jerk, a rogue, a dudebro, a bad egg, a dastard, a knave, a miscreant... be someone who gives off the impression of a respectable intellect, at the very least.

[@NoelleCanty]

That's the therapeutic response. True health and exploration.

[@juliaschurmann358]

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, opinionated therapists are incredibly dangerous. I had one as a teenager. My relationship with my mother was very toxic at the time and she managed to manipulate my therapist into supporting her positions on every disagreement we had and would spend 40ins explaining why she was right, I was wrong and how I was bad for hurting my mother. I say 40 minutes because she spent the first and last 10 minutes of the session with my mother. The next therapist I saw 5 years later because the first one got pregnant so I had a chance to find someone new was confused by somethings I took responsibility for. He asked if he could have 1 joint session with us both to try to understand the dynamic. We had a 40 minute session, he asked her to step out, turned to me and said "holy crap, ok, I get it now. Boundaries for the next year we are focusing on Boundaries! You did not exaggerate, you are not crazy, it wasn't your fault but you wont see that until we learn to maintain some healthy Boundaries. So yeah, Boundaries" He was right and by god did he save my life, literally. He saved my life with boundaries. Incidently, my mother hated him for it.

[@MendedLight]

Bonus points for the Firefly reference.

[@juliaschurmann358]

@@MendedLight I had to, how could you reference that episode and not the pretty floral bonnet? 🤣

[@Himmiefan]

I love a good Firefly reference!

[@Apricot90]

This happened to me when I was 23!!! I got infantilized from every side! Good thing I took my belongings and went away forever after this, it has been 10 years and cut ALL contact since then to the whole town.

[@samanthac.349]

Your second therapist is awesome! I’m now middle-aged and I’m just now beginning to understand that the reason I don’t trust my mom (and consequently gotten into a long string of physically abusive relationships) is due to how much she was emotionally and mentally abusive to me. I’ve had to learn on my own to draw boundaries with her. The silent treatment is not fun for me to hand out, but It’s an ironic, correct, and healthy answer to someone who demands to be heard when they’re angry and won’t stop screaming about why they’re angry. Also… Firefly! 🤠🤓

[@laurenlittlewood3913]

I once had a therapist tell me, “There’s nothing wrong with wanting to lose weight,” after telling her I was struggling with an ED relapse. And that was it. No follow-up. No, but. Just wanting to lose weight is fine. I was silent for what felt like a full minute, waiting for the wisdom. I finally responded, “Yeah, but standing over a toilet trying to talk myself out of purging is not that.” I stopped seeing her after that.

[@sarahlandis289]

I think I would have had the same reastion, waiting for the other half of the sentence. Hope you found an actually helpful therapist

[@BeepBoop-z2v]

I would have been petty and been like, "I know, that's why im trying to lose weight by purging, thanks for your support that im doing the right thing" with all the sarcasm

[@DaveE99]

I’ve bumped into more than one previous bulimic woman who seemed like they wanted to get healthier but didn’t know or kinda froze at the prospect of possibly getting close to triggers that previously sent them spiraling. And I totally get that is not easy at all, and working to my own trauma i know stuff complicated. Im just at same time like “hasn’t somebody figured out how to coach these people and be able to be sensative to their unique needs”. Like if yall want to be healthier stronger etc , how do you go about it and what resources do you turn to? Like I have to think somebody has created a sort of plan for this.

[@heartofthewild680]

Yikes! I’m not a therapist, and even I know that was the wrong thing for her to say.

[@2bdaqueen268]

“It’s okay if you have an eating disorder because at least you’re losing the weight.” Is a common statement that makes me pretty sad, it’s like people don’t care if you’re actually healthy and happy, it’s weird many doctors diagnoses just chalk up to “lose weight and you’ll be fine”

[@Calla618]

Wow! I didn’t think I’d see my response on here ! (I’m the woman from the first example) This actually helped heal a bit of the damage I’m still dealing with from her. In defense of my husband he was horrified when he saw me tying myself in knots trying to follow her “advice”. He said he was a grown ass man with two working legs and he can get his own water if he was thirsty lol. Also, he wanted a partner not a slave and actually encouraged me to leave that therapist and find a new one. I’m really glad I did before we had our daughter because I shudder to think what other crazy things she would have said.

[@Strazza-1110]

That "advice" was crazy. Expecting someone to read minds is a great way to start an abusive relationship, as everything will somehow become the other person's fault for "not knowing" or for "acting like they don't know". So glad your husband is sane

[@AW-uv3cb]

Thank god your husband didn't play into it and replied with... well, with the only reasonable thing a grown-up person should be expected to reply!

[@sarahlandis289]

Your husband is great for saying that 😊

[@christins.1481]

I like that your husband didn't say you need a therapist but instead said you needed a new one. I just recently got put on antidepressants and not once did my husband say I didn't need to be on them.

[@rmcnally3645]

So glad you got to hear from Mended Light!! SO GRATEFUL your husband didn't buy into this!! VERY VERY grateful you are finding good support ❤

[@ivyateve]

Listening to this, I had to think about my grandparents. It was the fifties and a busy household with 6 kids. My grandfather, a talented tailor but otherwise all thumbs, stood ironing the clothes while my grandmother was hammering in a nail to hang a picture. A visitor was shocked and asked my grandmother why and my ever pragmatic grandmother replied: he can do the ironing better than I can and I don't have the time to tend to him when he undoubtedly hits his fingers. They were fairly traditional but recognized their talents (or lack thereof) and worked as a team. It influenced my view on "genderroles".

[@miahan8988]

That’s absolutely fantastic, I love this ❤

[@sarahlandis289]

This is how I've always thought it should be. Each person does what they are good at, regardless of if it's a "man's task" or a "woman's task". Everybody just do what you're better at.

[@strngenchantedgirl]

Alicia - I love seeing another woman who embraces the fact that she has a lot of “masculine” traits. I occasionally come in contact with people who want to shame me for being assertive and ambitious and having leadership qualities. I love these parts of me and I fully feel feminine and womanly. I love that you embrace this about yourself too.

[@richardgurney1844]

I'm one of those guys who finds those personality traits in a woman super hot! - so yeah, don't feel any shame about who you are. Carry on being proud

[@syphos9411]

Same for me. I also have the more masculine traits and my boyfriend the more feminine ones. And I also love our dynamics! But... I also get a loot of negative comments about that. Like my chef who shit talks about women and I intervene. But he just response with 'you a not a real woman'. And I think you heard a lot of the comments like: if you behave like that, you'll never get a men. 🙄

[@bishop51807]

Jokes on them, guys like me find assertive woman super hot ❤😊

[@heidibailly2835]

What I hate more is the idea that if you have traits like that, you must be some sort of 3rd wave feminist, man hater. I am not. politically, I actually am pretty conservative, in fiscal terms. I just have always been a tomboy and I have some masculine personality traits, and don't want to be stuffed into a box and expected to act a certain way because I have XX not XY.

[@downbad2874]

Those are just being himan

[@moreanimals6889]

If I were the woman in the first example this would be my response; "I'm sorry, did you think I was a psychic when we got married? I'm not and I can prove it because if I had foreseen this conversation, we wouldn't be married. If you want something from me, you verbalize it with the word please. If you have a problem with that, we can't stay married."

[@MendedLight]

Lol. I love that.

[@Calla618]

I’m the woman in the first example! In defense of my husband he was horrified the therapist said that and said he was a grown man who could get himself a glass of water if he needed it lol. He said he wanted a partner, not a slave. He was the one that encouraged me to leave that therapist because she was tying me in knots.

[@shellyjoseph3109]

And your funny😅😅😅 thank u that gave me the giggle I needed

[@masumi158]

The problem with "traditional marriage from 1950s" is that it is heavily glamorised by people who didn't live in those times.

[@johnwalker1058]

They seem to forget how much many of those ladies were drugged up because of how awfully miserable it would have been to live through such circumstances fully sober.

[@kylaarmstrong-benjamin8066]

That trope didn't actually exist in reality, just made for tv

[@iivin4233]

​@@kylaarmstrong-benjamin8066Definitely not to the degree it's described. The stereotypes simultaneously did and not did not fit my grandparents. I suspect some of the more extreme misogynist stuff existed in magazine op eds primarily. You could get some profoundly toxic relationship advice from Cosmo or Seventeen for example.

[@lifelikelisa]

I don’t have a problem with people choosing a traditional relationship…at long as both partner’s have equal rights and respect for one another. I do, however, have a problem with people saying, “I chose this role because my gender or my religion dictates it.” I’m all for religion until it’s used to oppress people.

[@anthill1510]

That`s not a traditional relationship. Traditionally women didn`t have equal rights, that`s the whole point.

[@Erintii]

Respect and equal rights do not exist in traditional relationship. Mysoginy is a core base of traditional relationship.

[@lifelikelisa]

In the true definition of trad wifedom, y’all are right. I’m speaking more in regard to relationships where one partner is stay-at-home, running the house and caring for the kids, while the other has a career.

[@samstromberg5593]

Traditionally women didn’t have equal rights but that wasn’t a relationship issue it was a political issue Women’s suffrage was such a huge issue because women didn’t have the RIGHT to vote, not because their husbands wouldn’t let them In fact a lot of the time the husbands just voted for whoever their wife told them to so in those cases he essentially doesn’t have a vote

[@samstromberg5593]

I’m curious then - why isn’t that an acceptable reason to want that? I personally want a very traditional relationship - I’ll go to work and be the breadwinner and my wife will stay at home and be the breadmaker (I’m not sure that’s a word but I believe it conveys my point) but I respect that a lot of people don’t work that way and I won’t try to force it on others - I’m with you there. But why would it be invalid more me to say that I want it that way BECAUSE I’m a man?

[@jmvanzalinge5023]

I had a therapist tell me that I needed to "fake it till you make it" before even fully coming to understand me and my situation. Turns out a lot of my anxiety and depression was based on masking undiagnosed autism. I had been faking it, I had been faking it for so long that I did the opposite of making it, I burnt out and crashed. So when he told me that before either of us knew about the autism I thought, "sure, because that's been working out so well for me."

[@sarahlandis289]

Yeah I feel that, I'm sorry. Even knowing I have autism I've gotten caught in the trap of "faking it" like I'm normal because I was tired of the constant rejection for not being what people expected.

[@CeruleanStar]

That was my experience as well. Therapy hadn't been working for years. I even got fired as a patient once because the therapist thought I was acting "resistant to treatment" when all I was doing was explaining why the methods she was using weren't working for me. She assumed they weren't working because I wasn't willing to put in the effort, and told me as such. It was really disheartening. I was desperate for something to work. I was putting in so much effort. But to those therapists, it was never enough. After around 10 years of this, I finally managed to get diagnosed with ADHD and see a therapist who specialized in ADHD and autism. During those appointments, she noticed and diagnosed me autistic as well. All the sudden, everything made so much sense. She was the best therapist I ever had. I only stopped seeing her because I moved away. Traditional therapy just doesn't work for autistic people. It's more harmful than helpful. It sucks for those of us who never got diagnosed as kids and get blamed when it doesn't work out for us as if it's our fault. Effort was never the problem.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

I'm a woman and I once had a therapist say no boyfriend would be happy in a non monogamous relationship because 'men are just naturally possessive'. My response was 'ah yes, because we all know how much gay men love monogamy!' 🤣🤨☠ Yeah, that was my last session.

[@MendedLight]

Yikes. As a man, I don't like to be pigeonholed like that!

[@rd6458]

The rigid "traditional" relationship can be problematic for sure, and certainly misogynistic. The problem with the dating dynamic today, however, is that it can be harmful in the other extreme...and can be equally misogynistic (if in a different way.) We don't talk about that kind of oppression as much, even though it's more common today than the former, which is unfortunate. Promiscuous men who don't want to "settle down", often refuse to step up and be responsible...and so cause harm to women (but to their own kids especially.) The sexual revolution has been a boon to caddish men who harbor a lot of contempt for women; just because they utilize that contempt in a way that's typically different than the rigid, traditionalist husbands, does not make them "allies" to women. The Andrew Tate types are not equality-lovers...just because they're non-traditional, lol. I just wish that this extreme was criticized as much as the 1950s extreme.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

@@rd6458 I completely agree that 'players' can be extremely misogynistic! And that they are not motivated by sincere beliefs in 'female sexual freedom', lol, they just use that rhetoric to take advantage. HOWEVER, men like that, 'cads' and 'players' have always existed. The theme of a 'ruined woman' who was 'seduced' out of wedlock, conceived, and basically was kicked out of society is EVERYWHERE in classic literature. Think of Lydia and Wickham from Pride and Prejudice, for instance. So, the sexual freedom movement of the 60s and 70s was never to stop the 'player' men, it was to reduce the shame women faced for admitting to out of wedlock sex. It used to be when a woman was 'in the family way' from a player who abandoned her, the shame FOR HER was so intense she couldn't even talk about how the man behaved, because women were supposed to always be 'chaste'. Also, women who could not 'admit' to pre-marital sex were basically blocked from discussing their rapes and prosecuting offenders. So, women's sexual liberation is better than it used to be, women should be able to have out of wedlock sex without shame, and the only thing that in the longer term will stop men from taking advantage of women is women having more financial resources and systemic power (more women CEOs, judges, presidents, Congressmen, etc). The 'no sex before marriage rule' never protected women and never stopped players from playing.

[@Katie-bz4ls]

Plenty of gay men prefer monogamy. Many people do not. It really depends

[@DaveE99]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@rd6458even if your a guy with a higher body count, the issue is you run into the problem women have and complain about. And that’s finding quality mates. Like out of 20 women I can say I’ve only met one that could emotionally connect with me well and truly helped me. And one that intellectually could spar and match me. Plus insecure attatchments are on the rise in the country and despite the impossible task it is, it seems like either way I basically have to find a way to manage everything, and also still deal with that aspect of women that better is captured through behavior and reactions than what they say. Sure I don’t doubt men have that too because humans have that too. Even learning the nature of empathy and how it functions and what blocks it how morality isn’t what’s right and wrong but is how we learned to cooperate in a system of morality based less on religion or right and wrong or empathy , but rather anger, disgust, fear, anxiety, admiration, halo of pretty privledge, etc etc. Life just isn’t what we thought it was. And most of the people who go look more red pill stuff aren’t those men that you might complain about, a lot of them are the ones that gave things and honest try, and have been repeatedly burned by women. And at same time, it’s not like religion school or family could ever give us an honest take on the opposite sex. The tendancy is to either give a black and white sort of “they all suck” or “love is amazing and sacred” and the reality is it’s neither but working out of especially the Disney version religious ideas of relationships and even just understanding how those people behave only to realize they crazy too. (Right wing authoritarian personality traits are no joke) And the whole thing is a mess. And I’m not some extreme avoidant attatched person, I’ve def have typically had more of an anxious side that’s out especially if I can feel safe in a relationship.

[@brianneporchak3023]

Hubby and I organically ended up in a somewhat "traditional" marriage. After our daughter was born, it made more sense emotionally and financially for me to stay home (severe anxiety over the idea of anyone watching her aside from us). She's now 8, and we still have the same dynamic. I do all the domestic and financial chores, while he works his labour intensive job for 9 hours per day. When he gets home, he relaxes and spends time with kiddo until her bedtime. But after that, it's all about us. He's asking about my day, helping me emotionally even when he's stressed or exhausted. He's finding out what I need from him tomorrow to help me. And on the weekends, he asks me what cleaning or organizing thing I just can't deal with, and he does it. It can be as little as throwing a load of laundry on for me all the way to deep cleaning the bathroom/kitchen or doing the yard work. I take care of him when he's exhausted, and he returns that when he's able to. It's a "traditional" marriage at a glance, but there is mutual care and support in ways that fit with how we live.

[@TooSquareProductions]

You’re so fortunate! I’m sure he appreciates knowing he can find respite at home and your daughter was given the privilege of quality time with both of you. ❤

[@aperta7525]

No prudent therapist will say "you should have" in a lecture-ous manner. The therapist is not living in the shoes of the client/patient.

[@MendedLight]

YES. So true.

[@HouseMDaddict]

"if something needs to be fixed I fix it. If someone needs to be heard, you hear them." I really liked how you said this.

[@MrJBest78]

We have options now. We can be whoever we want to be. Some women want to be traditional stay home wives/moms and keep house. While some men do the traditional husband things. If that works for BOTH of you, SO BE IT. Do it then, if you don’t want to be that, then don’t! Men can be great nurturing dads and do whatever the traditional wives can do as well. Everyone is different and what works for some people might not work for others. You are never going to please everyone and that sounds so cliche but it’s true. You need to be who you are and only YOU can define yourself as a person and no one else. That’s just my cheap two cents worth. Have a wonderful day to anyone who reads the comments in this post.

[@sneakerbabeful]

Yes, this exactly. Before I was born, my parents duscused this. They _both_ agreed that it would be best for _both_ of them if Dad worked outside the home, and Mom worked in the home. It was an arrangemet they agreed upon as equals. They both consulted the other agreed on most decisions together.

[@puppypoet]

I have been judged and criticized so many times because I grew up dreaming of being a somewhat traditional housewife. I changed the term to stay-at-home mother and people have started to shut up.

[@tigerfire8985]

Last time I saw a KZbinr get divorced things got very ugly. I'm glad things are still good between the two

[@samstromberg5593]

???? Did they get divorced?

[@ludmilamaiolini6811]

@@samstromberg5593yes, but very amicably. It’s seems like they just concluded they wanted different things

[@samstromberg5593]

@@ludmilamaiolini6811 WHAT How long ago was this?

[@AnnekeOosterink]

@@samstromberg5593 I saw an announcement on the cinema therapy page a few months ago I think?

[@ludmilamaiolini6811]

@@samstromberg5593 it was recently. I think you can find information about this either here or on cinema therapy. I don’t remember where they posted about it. Although the news are sad, they’ve been quite wholesome about it.

[@mallisaunders4565]

I love the idea of partnerships finding their own balance. My husband and I have a semi-traditional balance: he does the fix things, I do the people stuff. However... he cooks and sews better than I do. Also, my "ew gross" threshold is waaaay higher than his.

[@mallisaunders4565]

Also, we both have jobs.

[@sarahlandis289]

My husband always calls me when there's a stinkbug to be removed from the house. 😂

[@masmith8308]

Alicia, your comment about people trying to make you less YOU really struck a chord with me!

[@tinaperez7393]

Saffron in Firefly DEFINITELY has "some other things" going on.😂😂😂 Red flags red flags red flags!😂

[@angeliprimlani9389]

Honestly this might be the worst example ever of a functional traditional marriage.

[@DaughterofDiogenes]

I went to a Christian therapist with my abusive husband some years back. He gave similar advice. All the focus was on me and how I was causing the problems by being hurt by his behavior. We went to 1 meeting with this man and it made everything exponentially worse. Even my husband admitted it just validated all his resentments and caused him to act worse. That was maybe 6 years ago and I finally put him out about 2 months ago. I wish I had done it sooner. It never improved.

[@sarahlandis289]

Yikes

[@l.s.d.5863]

I had a friend who used to be close with his mom. She got remarried to an abusive, traditionalist christian man. He didn't like my friend coming over to visit his mom, and would block her from helping him in any way he could. (My friend was 20 and just getting started out in life, it was reasonable for him to need support and guidance at points.) It came to a head when his debit card was stolen and his account emptied. The bank was sorting it out and he had a paycheck on the way, but he was flat broke for nearly a month, and asked his mom for a small loan to help him get by. The step dad lost it. He took the mom to a christian marriage counselor, who told her that her duty according to God was first and foremost to her husband, not her children. It's been about five years. I don't think they've spoken since then.

[@DaughterofDiogenes]

@@l.s.d.5863 that’s insane. First and foremost my obligation is to my children. It doesn’t even make sense that a grown ass man needs a woman to abandon her children to “care” for him. So gross. I’m so sorry your friend had to deal with this. I’m sure he misses his mom.

[@myskanamrazu9412]

Back in the days of MySpace, I once shared a thought on my profile that it was perfectly ok for a woman to be a "traditional" housewife if that was what she wanted and suited both partners. That caught the eye of a random guy and he messaged me and we discussed it further. We've just celebrated the 18th anniversary since that first message and us being friends. (Never met in person, unfortunately. He's a musician and graphic artist from the US, also a Muslim, I'm an atheist lawyer from Central Europe. But I still consider him one of my best friends, even though we haven't been in touch as much as I'd like in the past years.) I mean exactly, whatever works for you, as long as your partner and you respect each other for your contributions to the relationship. Regarding the worst thing a therapist said to me, and including one that said I was self-absorbed when I was 12, I had this episode when I didn't want to be alone on my birthday (turning 27), my parents were on holiday so I invited a friend over to my house. He got drunk one morning before I woke up and insisted the best way to show me how much he loved me and was the best for me was to make me sleep with him. He wouldn't stop even when I asked him to five times. Only stopped when he saw me crying. Thankfully, I was later able to get hold of my cousin and she and her boyfriend came to get me. Saw my therapist the next day, he told me I should not have invited the guy over. And I guess technically he was right, I hadn't been careful, but that shouldn't be an excuse for the guy to do what he did, right?

[@kaitlynblack5272]

Not an excuse at all. It was his responsibility to control himself once you asked him to stop.

[@Himmiefan]

No, the guy was in the wrong, totally.

[@lisa_wistfulone7957]

You trusted your friend. He broke and betrayed that trust, horribly. It’s on him.

[@sarahlandis289]

Agreed. No means no, I can't believe he didn't listen to you.

[@Nina_Hallsjo]

The main reason for why I don’t go to therapists anymore. Halfway through excepting our third child my husband realised he was in love with his childhood friend and asked for a divorce, our daughter was born with a syndrome, and I almost caught eclampsia. Safe to say, I was not in a good place. Went to see a therapist and he said “but you’re happy?! You’re smiling at your baby, and you’re not crying when you talk about this. I don’t believe you need to be here, I think you’re faking it!” I just looked at him for two seconds, put my baby in the pram and walked out.

[@sarahlandis289]

I agree with what you did. Not everyone is so transparent about their pain, good grief

[@calladricosplays]

So many guys don't understand, especially when looking through history, that people WILL make the most of a bad situation instead of whining about it as much as they do. You know, because not everyone can afford to lose their job, or make it their kid's problem... And if a therapist doesn't understand that, then he shouldn't be helping anyone, much less be a therapist. I hope you and your loved ones are better off without him

[@MagdalenaMantler]

OMG how aweful... I have been part in first aid groups when I was young (there were competitions for first aid teams and I was playing "victim" for them so they could train different accidents and cases to be prepared) and what the "teacher" there always told us: The ones who are injured the most are those, who are to most silent in the most cases. They often do not scream or are hysteric but are extremely silent (maybe because of shock) and don't show how much pain they have often. They always told us that you have to take a special eye on those which are silent, they may need the most help. This somehow reminds me of your case somehow..

[@jessicaharris1608]

"We often apply moral judgments to non-moral questions." This is an elegant way of saying what I say about purple vs. yellow. I love purple and I hate yellow. Is there anything morally wrong with yellow? Absolutely not! I have had many people in authority make a "purple vs. yellow" issue into a moral issue. In the circles I often frequent, my more assertive so-called "masculine" traits are looked negatively upon. I have been charged by people in moral authority to essentially change a fundamental part of myself. Someone who is a mentor to my husband has instructed me to be much more submissive and to quell my assertive tendencies in deference to my husband. To her, I should always submit to my husband's wishes, even if they're NOT moral issues but even "purple vs. yellow" issues e.g. what restaurant to eat at. My husband HAS NEVER been the type to push and demand I follow his lead. We haven't been married for even a decade yet, so we're still figuring things out but I thank God my husband does NOT demand submission from me. My husband calls me his "strong right arm" and defers to me as his partner. There's certain things that he has vastly more wisdom and experience with so I defer to his expertise. There are other things that, like Alicia, I excel at. When our kitchen sink was clogged, it was me who did the research and figured out how to fix the issue. I was the one to put on gloves and unscrew the P-trap and pipe under the sink to unclog the sink. My husband has taught himself how to invest and handles all of our retirement saving/investments. I handle only our simple basic emergency fund savings account cause that's all I understand. Investments are completely over my head! My husband handles washing most of the dishes because I hate it even more than he does. In exchange, I handle most of the gross jobs like the cat litter box and taking out the trash and recycling. I can handle gross things much better than he can since I'm a farm kid and a healthcare worker and I can use gloves. (I always say that I can handle a lot of gross things if I can wear gloves!)

[@thomasmaughan4798]

Absolutely; yellow is superior to purple! No question. Ask anyone! Still, I prefer purple flowers so I might have to revisit this.

[@undeadfroggo6349]

I had an abortion once. In between therapy sessions. When I came back to see the therapist I was seeing at the time, I told her about it and she couldn't fathom that it was the right option for me and that I didn't regret it. She tried to shame me and kept asking why I had done it and what my partner thought and why I seemed so calm about such a terrible thing. I didn't return.

[@_IH_]

This is exactly the kind of situation I've been thinking about for the whole video. I'm so sorry you had to deal with such bs from your then therapist and I hope you've found a better one and are living your best life. Only you know what the best choice for you was/is, in the end. ❤

[@undeadfroggo6349]

@@_IH_ Thank you. ♥️

[@EmilyInALoop]

Where was she wrong though?

[@undeadfroggo6349]

@EmilyInALoop She was attempting to shame me for something that had nothing to do with her. As a therapist, she had no right to push her opinions on me. Especially about something that is so detrimental to my life. Basically, I was trying to fill her in on the past events between then and when I had seen her last, and she decided to stop me and use that one thing as ammunition. She was completely in the wrong. You do not tell people how to live their lives or shame them for making the right choices for themselves.

[@EmilyInALoop]

@@undeadfroggo6349yeah I suppose you are right. As a therapist she should set her personal feelings aside and not judge the person she is supposed to help. Judgement is never correct even outside of therapy.

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

As a young woman who enjoys more traditional gender roles in my marriage, I was totally shocked by 0:56 to 1:20, and that video from Jono's show. That is NOT healthy. "Traditional marriage roles" is NOT that. My goodness. Yes, I take care of most of the cooking and cleaning in our home, because I have an easy remote job at home, and he works 10 hours a day as an engineer. I'm more than happy to take care of laundry and dishes and general cleaning and cooking while I'm here anyway. But if he comes home and I am _tired_ for whatever reason, he is _always_ willing and happy to help me cook dinner, do the cleaning together, and we finish up the day's tasks together. Also, mind-reading your partner is an impossible standard. It will ONLY ever lead to sulking when your every desire is not implicitly understood without you having to communicate. All that to say... what you're responding to is NOT NOT NOT good traditional marriage roles. It's the opposite of them.

[@larssjostrom6565]

There are many situations when we should get up and walk out.

[@ambergildon5363]

The body language in which you responded to her parents "help" that stifled her was sooooo telling!!!

[@skhjs9246]

One of the things I love most about my husband is that he doesn’t need me. He is fully capable of doing whatever needs done from cooking to entertaining to scheduling to vehicle maintenance, as am I. It means that the to-do list is split around who has time and energy when things need done and not any preconceived ideas of who should do what. (With a couple exceptions of jobs that one of us despises.) As a bonus, it means we both recognize the effort that was put in to whatever task was done.

[@sarahlandis289]

Sounds like a great system to me!

[@calladricosplays]

I love this, especially since I can't fathom keeping track of whose turn it is to do what when some things need to be done asap

[@PeacockFeatherBlue]

I have a disability that I inherited from my mother, who was diagnosed with cancer (she's currently in remission). Our disability is tremendously rare and while trying to deal with the idea of losing the one person guaranteed to understand me, I tried therapy. The therapist told me, "well, just find someone else who has this disability and make friends with them." If I ever found out someone became my friend solely because we shared a disability and they didn't want to feel alone, I'd feel so used. Not to mention, it completely disregarded the relationship my mom and I already had. I paid for the one appointment and never spoke to her again.

[@rebeccat715]

I wish more people understood that the idea of what's "traditional" varies depending on culture and can sometimes be based on an upper class ideal that most people couldn't attain. Depending on the time and cultural context, women were doing jobs outside child rearing and keeping their own house (seamstress, milliner, maid, beer brewing, just to name some from Western pre-industrial history). Women deciding to be SAHMs and living their best life is great! But the rhetoric that women working "outside the house" is unnatural or goes against history upsets me. A huge amount of labor was required from everyone for us to make it this far, and it's wrong to discount the role women played in communities because we've somehow branded making textiles as less instrumental work than lumber and nails. (I honestly think there's a link here to being disconnected from our community and where our goods come from, but that's another story)

[@DaveE99]

You are right that women worked, though the type of work women did had more to do with where they could do that work and still watch the kids. Like there def was things women did, often in allo groups, basically all of women’s work historically was work that could be done at home or not far from it

[@cmrsnowflake]

I absolutely love how much fun you had creating that cover photo. The creativity suggests a relationship that is powerful and alive, even during challenging and complex times.

[@annip1989]

In college I told a therapist I thought I was trans, and he told me I needed to dress prettier. I'm not trans, but what? Worst advice ever. And I loved the way I dressed.

[@Muggins1046]

20 years ago while I was engaged I had a breakdown and needed to see a psychiatrist. After listening to me speak about my childhood trauma he waved it away as nothing and said it was a good thing I was getting married because a husband wouldn’t stand for this nonsense and would occupy my time so I wouldn’t have time to be mentally unwell

[@sarahlandis289]

Please tell me you walked out, that's ridiculous

[@mobabyhomeslice]

The worst person who ever burned me was a licensed therapist/counselor. She gaslit me SO HARD and I spent YEARS unpacking all the sh*tty ways she treated me. And she had ALLL the gossip on other therapists in her field. Not all therapists are built the same.

[@heymikey4025]

I hope that you reported her (and/or sued her)…was the gossip about other therapists or about her patients or about other therapists’ patients? I mean if you’re in the USA did she break HIPPA/patient confidentiality? If so, writing down in your report all of the gossip that she told you about others could definitely help launch an investigation into her and possibly revoke her license…since how else would you know that gossip/privileged information? Plus it’d likely make her a pariah in the therapist community for spreading gossip about them/their patients to her patients… I hope that you are doing better and have possibly found a good therapist to help you.

[@makaelarodeback7058]

Not super related, but one time, I went in to a therapist with my mom ( I wanted her there) and didn't feel comfortable opening up about some sexual trauma I experienced, so my mom kind of explained what happened to me in the most recent instance. My mom started crying; I wanted to cry and felt so uncomfortable and unsure of what I was supposed to act like or say. I'd never talked to a stranger about this, so I was happy my mom was there to help me and make me feel safe. He laughed and said I was "going to be fine". He ended our session about 15 minutes later. It took me years to realize that encounter with a therapist was absolutely awful and wrong. Kept me from reaching out for help and healing for 8 more years. Glad there are people like you guys because people deserve real empathy from professionals who can guide them in the right direction.

[@heidibock1017]

In 1986, after about 3 years of having issues, my mom took my dad to a marriage therapist she found in the phone book. The (male) therapist told her she was wrong, not trying hard enough as a wife (even though she was taking care of everything, aside from working), and she needed to stand by her man. She was so upset & stressed out, she broke out in hives and my father said "look at how crazy she is." They never went to another session again, and after my dad traded in her beloved truck that wasn't paid off to buy a new one, she gave him a month to get out. She found out later that the therapist they went to was a defrocked priest. Gotta love the phone book.

[@moonwalker.v]

It's 2024 and sadly everyone in my family is very conservative and unhealthily "traditional". My mother is the typical people pleaser who does everything for my father. I can't stand what he expects from her - it's inhumane. But "that is just the way it is", as my mother would say.

[@moonwalker.v]

@@AliceVFame Yeah. I love my parents but I feel they are both trapped in their idea of a marriage

[@jennifervaughn1541]

If your mom is fine with it...more power to her I guess

[@thomasmaughan4798]

Whereas you are wise and smart and would change your parents if you could.

[@iridescentraindrops]

I hope your father is also traditional and pays all the bills and fixes everything around the house. But most boomer men don't even do that.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@iridescentraindrops "I hope your father is also traditional and pays all the bills and fixes everything around the house." Me^

[@Apricot90]

I have been to many different therapists and institutions in my 20s and have been through many many disappointments... Therapists are human too. There are lots of shitty, nasty and plain evil among them. The sad thing is that society has capitalized simple compassionate human interaction. We can't speak about anything anymore, no one is listening. And if it is something "uncomfortable" their immediate response will be "Have you tried therapy? Go to therapy." It is fucked up on so many levels. And then they wonder why there is a loneliness epidemic.

[@l.s.d.5863]

People have always and will always find excuses to avoid personal conversations that make them uncomfortable. That doesn't really have anything to do with the normalization of therapy, beyond it being one of a million potential ways out of a conversation they don't want to have. Frankly, society is much more open to listen about personal problems, and especially mental illness, than they used to be. The normalization of therapy is part of that trend. Trust me, you would not rather live 80 years ago, when trying to talk to people about your struggles with mental health risked getting you forcibly lobotomized, rather than walking away feeling a little lonely.

[@moonwalker.v]

2:15 I love you two as a team😭 you are amazing

[@MendedLight]

Thank you!

[@mariaana6710]

As a therapist, I love to see this type of thing being discused. People needs to know more about therapy and good therapy to losed the fear that people have about it. You can say what kind of therapist you want, is your right and, in some ways, you can "enterview" the candidates to know if they are what your need. For that, I always talk about my kind of therapy, how I do and their rights and, if they let me, about the Enfoque ecológico (No pude traducirlo en mi cabeza al inglés, pero Jonno entiende, así que bien) that is the theory/practice i based it. Blessings!

[@maxithink5527]

My therapist (that I don't go to anymore) told my mum that all my medical issues were in my head and told me to stop going to doctors because I'm just making it worse... I had a bacterial infection (among other, more permanent things).

[@stacyclark8590]

My parents (my father was a Baptist minister--but not THAT KIND) were totally equal partners, even when she stayed home while we kids were small. He actively encouraged her when she decided to get a job and was incredibly proud of how well she did. My mother-in-law used to tell the story that when she married my father-in-law (also a Baptist minister---and not THAT KIND either) she started out doing the whole traditional wife role and after a week or so he said, "What are you doing?!" And she said she was trying to be a good wife and he said, "Knock it off. I didn't marry you to serve me or echo my opinions!! I married you because you are strong and independent with your own opinions." (My paraphrase because I don't remember exactly what she said.) Needless to say, my husband and I were completely equal partners from day one--and blissfully happy.

[@sarahlandis289]

I love this story 😁

[@rosevalety3408]

As a bi/nb feminine looking person, "Why aren't you more traditional" is such a hurtful comment, especially from a therapist. Do they think we're choosing ? Did they chose to be the way they are ? How can they be therapists when they're so biased ?! If someone I put my trust on would unvalidate who I am because I'm not 'traditional', I swear I would break, I've never been ! I'm neurodivergent, and bipolar, and that's not traditional, I've always felt 'not quite a girl', I've always tried to be the 'traditional girl' my mother wanted, but I've never been, and I'll never be, I'm not broken, and people saying stuff like that need a slap hard enough they change career pathsq. Damn how many people have they hurt this way ? How many people will listen to them and hurt themselves and others because of that ?

[@sarahlandis289]

Sending hugs. I'm neurodivergent too so I feel not fitting into the expected molds

[@thomasmaughan4798]

"If someone I put my trust on would unvalidate who I am " What exactly is the purpose of going to a therapist and paying $100 an hour to be *validated* ? You go to a therapist because something is *wrong* .

[@Katiewithdaffodils]

​@thomasmaughan4798 I think there is a difference between questioning and challenging unhealthy patterns of thought and even behavior, vs invalidating someone's identity. There are codes and practices to therapy and counselling and they really aren't supposed to tell you what to do.

[@rosevalety3408]

@@thomasmaughan4798 When you feel ike you're already wrong on so many levels that your very existence feels like a mistake, validation is the only freakin things to rectify that mentality. Everyone has their own needs and pains, sometimes you need someone to tell you "you're doing the right things" without judgement. When disphoria coupled with neurodivergence and bipolarity hits, when nothing makes sense in your own head and being in so much pain you're barely able to comprehend what's the point of keeping on breathing, yeah, sometimes you just need someone to tell you that you're on the right path. The purpose of paying 100 dollars is to not slit your freakin wrists out of agony.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

@@rosevalety3408 "validation is the only freakin things to rectify that mentality. " If that's what you need, pay the hundred bucks. See you next week!

[@cheshiredeimos1874]

In the military it is difficult to get an appointment with a therapist, but very easy to get an appointment with a chaplain. They are often very good sounding boards an usually respect the fact that the sailor before them may not share their religious beliefs, but still need human help. The one issue I had was when a particular chaiplain told me, a buddhist, that animals don't have souls.

[@Palindrome78]

Tell the chaplain, humans are also considered animals so, therefore, we don't have souls, according to their beliefs.

[@sarahlandis289]

I'm not Buddhist but I personally believe animals have souls. I just wouldn't want them to be truly gone after dying

[@moonwalker.v]

The thumbnail is so amazing (Jonathan should wear more suits)

[@MendedLight]

Can do! And thank you.

[@casieperry9047]

Holy crap! There is so much peace in this video for my relationship with my parents! My mom doesn't like that her daughter is a "subservient wife to her husband." I manage the people, like Jono. She doesn't see how we balance our home perfectly just the way we are.😊

[@StrangePhoton]

I was a gifted child - like ridiculously so. Then in my late teens through early 20s, when it became obvious that I'd wasted those gifts, I went down a VERY dark path (opiate addiction, theft, extreme violence). I eventually got my life together, then later in my 30s, started struggling with emotional baggage around those dark years, so I went to see a therapist. After a bunch of sessions, she told me I was too hard on myself, and that I didn't need to feel bad about anything I did. "Your intellect is beyond exceptional and that makes you so special,. People who are that special shouldn't have to hold themselves to the same rules as the rest of us." Um... this is exactly the thinking I had back in those dark years, so to hear it from a therapist made it clear that... well... I needed a new therapist.

[@magnarcreed3801]

She’s delulu. A really smart person wouldn’t be dumb enough to do such horrible things.

[@gabrielvdenton]

Great video! Thanks for sharing your light! Because we need you too! 😊

[@llouie4999]

My parents were very mindful that they had what appeared like status quo traditional, but they'd explain why they divided it up like that to us (emphasis on pragmatic reasons) and it was evident that each could team up or step up as situations warranted.

[@naaruoracle4786]

When I was in college I was in my first serious relationship. I had thought I was gay in high school because I had no interest in dating women. That serious relationship was with a woman. I was very confused and the therapist told me that I should break up with that person and go date men. Lots of things happened since then and I figured out a lot about my identity but that advice I thought was insane and crossed some serious boundaries

[@clairenollet2389]

I wonder if these judgemental "therapists" are actually therapists. I wonder if they're lay people hired by a very conservative church. It seems more like preaching than therapy.

[@MendedLight]

It's possible. Though this type of judgmental behavior can come from either side, as we discuss here.

[@HouseMDaddict]

Therapists are the same as any other field in the sense that people that get Ds in college still get a diploma. Grad school you typical need to graduate with a B or higher, but you'll always have the people that just BARELY got their medical degree or their teaching degree or whatever. It took a while for me, in the last 10 years of me working in the mental health field, to truly understand not everyone has the same dedication to their studies and to their clients that I and my cohort group possessed 🤷🏻‍♀️.

[@Boobookittyfluff]

Right?! That's totally what I was thinking.

[@clairenollet2389]

​@@Boobookittyfluff Some churches offer "counseling services" delivered by people who aren't trained or licensed therapists. They're just there to push a religious agenda. I've seen it happen to friends.

[@lewildwest]

That's definitely a thing, but honestly, I've gotten similar comments from a psychiatrist. A lot of people have internalized misogyny.

[@jssfrk161]

Wow as someone who loves being a homeschool mum who does a lot of traditional things, but I’m not really a traditional wife (not religious for one) I came in here expecting to be told I’m silly, but I was pleasantly surprised 😊

[@view-camera-queen]

I had a therapist tell me that having a baby would give me purpose and I should knit something for my future baby to think about it. This was our first session and I was in my mid twenties at the time.

[@ruecumbers]

What's so funny about this to me is that having my babies _did_ give me such a sense of purpose, more than I ever would have considered or was prepared for, but even _I_ think this is a bonkers ass opener from your therapist. This was your first session, she knew relatively nothing about you, and children _aren't_ a cure-all you can just slap over your sadness or whatever. Children are _amazing,_ but they're _hard_ and they are entire little people that will be a part of you for the rest of your life. There not for everyone and even those who would love them aren't always in a place in life that's conducive for them and shouldn't treat them like a solution to their problems. Plenty of people do have them in difficult and unideal situations, but those children didn't make the situations themselves better. Truthfully children are almost guaranteed to make a hard situation even more difficult. You just love and care for your children the best you can _in spite_ of those hardships. Children are only one of plenty of things in life that can give someone purpose and fulfillment.

[@thegryffindorotaku9667]

I just saw the title and thought this is gonna be awesome lol😂

[@alicialexists]

Thanks, Mended Light! Also, thank you, Alicia, for not being shy about your more stereotypically masculine traits. You're a bit of a role model for me. (I'm also named Alicia!) I'm still working on learning on a deeper level that my personality type is okay for me to have as a woman.

[@kikijewell2967]

My bad therapist experience: (long story short) after researching neurodivergence, I told my therapist I thought I might be on the spectrum. My therapist said, "don't worry! You're not autistic!" Well, this threw me into freefall. Finally, I had an explanation for many things in my life that didn't make sense. I wrinkled my nose and said, "no, that's not your job to diagnose me. Your job us to ask, 'what parts of autism do you relate to?' or 'what tools that autistic folks use that seem to help you?'" That leaves everything wide open. And it doesn't matter if I'm on the spectrum or not. It would allow me to access tools without judgement. I asked them, "did you say I wasn't autistic because you thought I was _worried?_ Were you hoping to reassure me to ease my worry? Because that was not the emotion I was feeling. I was feeling _relief._ And by denying my self-diagnosis, that pulled that relief out from under me." The therapist took it well, and we both grew from that moment. (And I'm considering seeking diagnosis - at least if I feel it would be helpful to have that.)

[@sarahlandis289]

Wow, I'm glad they listened to you

[@DimaRakesah]

I bet none of the therapists giving this advice will tell you about all the "traditional house wives" in their office who are still miserable, or how many of them their husbands cheat on or divorce them and leave them penniless to chase a younger woman because he only ever saw her as a life accessory that existed for his happiness.

[@Canny-Octopus]

I love you two. Every time I watch Wreck It Ralph, I have in my head Jonathan's warm affection and admiration of Alicia (via Sgt Calhoun). It makes my heart all warm and melty, that acceptance and self-acceptance, external gender roles be damned. Thanks for continuing the lovely videos, as your own relationship has shifted.

[@sassles]

My therapist suggested my chronic depression and suspected personality disorder would be cured by finding a boyfriend. Even after I said I wasn't interested in a relationship, he tried to set me up with another one of his patients!

[@genevieve7676]

Ewwwww, I'm so sorry that happened to you. You didn't deserve that.

[@sarahlandis289]

Definitely crossing boundaries

[@TheRikyaguilar]

I'm a member of the same church as Jonathan. I was a missionary for the church in Vegas. I had some horrible experiences with criminals while I was there, and now I have PTSD. I wanted to leave the church at one point because of the mental and emotional anguish from the PTSD, but I wanted to stay because of my beliefs and faith. A therapist who is also of my faith told me to "just pray, read your scriptures, and have faith." That didn't help. Luckily, I found another therapist. He was also of my faith but decided to work with me on my PTSD issues instead of my faith issues. He helped me realize that my paranoia was affecting my marriage. Working on me having peace of mind helped my marriage, my faith, and even my professional life.

[@MendedLight]

Yeah, people who just use scripture in therapy instead of their training and degree frustrate me. I mean, if your client shares your faith, by all means, connect on that level and bring some of that in. But don't make it the whole thing.

[@TashoniShantomeye]

“So many people assign moral judgements to non-moral questions “ …. So true… I once had a therapist tell me she thinks I have a developmental disability- pretty much on the basis of our initial sessions bc I was a bit fidgety and indirect eye contact… which I am every time I’ve started with someone new… not-so-shockingly when I start to trust is when I relax

[@kareningram6093]

I once saw a psychiatrist who prescribed meds for me that cost more per month than my rent. When I told him I could not afford that, instead of prescribing something else, he suggested I try getting married to somebody with more money. I am not kidding.

[@sarahlandis289]

You fired him, right?

[@kareningram6093]

@@sarahlandis289 Yeah.

[@CreepyLilPanda]

In my experience with therapy, if your therapist starts talking about their personal beliefs or values for longer than a, "I can understand where you're coming from, as someone with a similar background." (or something to that affect) they're not following the rules of being a therapist. It's not about them. It's not about what they like or want or believe. It's about you. They can share things to build a connection, if that's how they work. They should not be telling you what to do. NONE of my therapists (the ones I worked well with as an adult at least) have ever told me what to do. Never "you should... you need to..." It was, "why don't we try working on... how do you feel about trying..."

[@brittanyjacques3253]

Smart stuff as usual, but gosh i gotta tell you how much i adore your thumbnail 😂

[@egrace3738]

Nice to see you two working together today.

[@Hiddenoddity26]

I plan to spend a life of singlehood. This way, I dont have to feel guilty about being a naturally masculine cis male because I won't be hurting anyone. Relationships that are female led are in no way a bad thing. It just isn't for me. In truth, I dont want either dynamic. Im flying solo.

[@NavaSDMB]

The first one: that's what my mother wanted from her children and husband. Well, she still wants it, but any time she says it out loud she runs into a 3-siblings barrier. Dad moved to infinity over twenty years ago, but anyway he never accepted that crap. While it is good to be able to anticipate the needs of your partners, friends, whatever, it is not something which can happen magically (it comes after a lot of clear communication) and it should go both ways.

[@twebible]

I'm speaking of someone who has been a part of a high religion group like Christian evangelicals. It sounds like some of these situations may have happened in religious counseling settings. Churches in my experience have employed Christian counselors that pastors can refer the congregation to in times of need. However these counselors tend to not follow the guides of mainline therapist. And do a lot of harm because some of the people who go to them don't know the difference between a Christian counselor or religious counselor and certified mainline counselors.

[@carolallison9685]

The issue with "traditional" is tradition is based on regions of the world, religions, and cultures. Our ideas of traditional wives in the united states came from a post ww2 ad campaign for a washing machine. I cant even make this up. Btw, if you we're wondering if us americans are stupid, hope that helps clear up some things. Anyway, there are way too many traditions to actually say what is traditional. Im traditional in my culture. My culture is based in witchcraft and the worship of strong, dark female deities that not only create, but also destroy (life and death cycle). My cultures idea of traditional is not what these red pillers had in mind. It works well for our marriage because my husband loves a strong woman who doesnt dote on him (he gets mommy vibes from these types of women and it freaks him out). He also doesn't want submission either because that gives him daddy daughter vibes, which also freaks him out. Basically, since we do witchcraft and follow more neo pagan ideas, we see our home and property as a sacred space, so its both of our responsibility to care for it. We are a priest and priestess caring for our temple. We also both cook because we see cooking for loved ones as putting good intentions into the food that will be ingested (kitchen witchery). We also garden together because we are both very nature based, and we have a duty to care for our 5 acres of nature. Basically, we both do everything when we see it needs to be done, and a lot of the time we do it together. This is our tradition. Its not based on gender, its based on care and love for ourselves, each other, our children, our plants and animals, and the love of what we are responsible for. So no i don't agree with these peoples ideas because they don't even take into account what culture their clients subscribe to. They are forcing their cultural traditions onto other people because they have a bias (and probably arent very well traveled either seeing as they ignore that other people in the world exist).

[@denisemead1271]

I was explaining my family dynamic to my new therapist. I told her that my family doesn't feel the need to speak on the phone regularly or be in constant contact but we were always there for each other if needed. She told me "that's sick." I went away from the session disturbed and feeling angry. The next session (and my last with her) she apologized and I found out she talked with her father on the phone daily and could not conceive that anything could be healthy that did not involve that level of contact.

[@singingislife18]

I had a therapist I was forced to see when I was a kid who grew up in the IFB. Not honestly sure if they were a real therapist. They told that I was lying about being physically abused even though I had visible bruises and that emotional abuse wasn't a thing. They then went on to tell me to stop being so difficult and gave my parents tips on how to break my personality. So that happened.

[@Lillith.]

I have a mother who is more masculine and a father who is more feminine. They both took up the roles that fitted them best and from the outside I've had some people react surprised when they see what problem I approach what parent for. This stereotypical gender swap in parental roles has also had an effect on us children where we are less stereotypical masculine or feminine. In relationships I've experienced some people react badly to it and others really liked it. My partner should compliment my traits and I'm not changing them no matter how much some people would like me to do so.

[@moonwalker.v]

Alicia is an incredible woman

[@MendedLight]

She truly is. - Jonathan

[@breeanaoldham2634]

My mom is bipolar it was very hard to get a diagnosis. She didn’t get it till I was out of the house. She went to mostly “church therapists” they told her all kinds of things. She was depressed because she was not going to church, or another one said her faith was not strong enough. Then a “real” therapist told her her depression came from her own self loathing and she needed to work on her self image. Getting her outside to match the outside (she was very very overweight) telling her working out daily would solve her problems

[@tammymeier9157]

Just found you all. Love geeking out about Firefly. Thanks!

[@ST-rj8iu]

My parents were married for 42 years till death do us part. The roles my parents had are your roles. I loved it as a woman. My Mom was the daughter of a car mechanic, my father was a corporate white-collar guy that wanted room service and many pairs of shoes. I never saw them as not being masculine or feminine. Just Mom and Dad.

[@mangantasy289]

A miysoginistic therapist would probably be the only one my boomer-cliché father might not declare an idiot right from the start. My parents divorced (they probably should never have married), which was the right thing to do, but in a nasty way. Anyway, my father is not all wrong when he complains about what a handful my mother was (she was. She had BPD and more. Both had alcohol issues. So he was too). But one of his critique points always icks me. That she was "a bad housewife".100% according to these outdated gender rules. He would often say "that women was not 'leadable' (and using the terms for walking a dog)". Being "leadable" like he undestands it should not be a standard for ANY women. Regardless if she is a generally well balanced human being or struggling with mental health. That's why, yes, having somone else to tell her to subordinate might have pleased him. No blame on him watsoever of course. (Not that it would have worked. My mother's nature was rebellious. Ever since she was a little child. Feel pressured to to sth, she would fight like hellhound to do the opposite) But it's terrible that should-be professionals like that even exist. Thanks for this series. I can only imagine how helpful it can be to have a valuable perspective from a third party. Especially since (I assume as it counts for me) being in a therapy puts you already in a vulnerable place. Questioning yourself and the professional, it's hard to find answers on your own. Like is this me being wrong or the therapist doing a bad job? Took me many years (with my actual, good psychiatrist) to really see the "bad" experiences I had with some professionals were rather them than me doing wrong. Last thing: I loved "firefly" and discovered it only thanks to "Cinemy therapy". Thanks for that too. Made this video even better.

[@o0BlackSand0o]

Tried to tell a therapist about my mum's abuse. She then insisted on a session with my mum ( I was 16, so thought i didn't have a choice). She spent the whole time agreeing with my mum then IN FRONT OF MY MUM told me to get over myself, my mum was doing her best, and I shouldn't call her abusive. You can guess how well that went when we got home. Also, love that firefly is your fav show and you married a woman who looks a lot like summer gale.

[@jd-is7nj]

crying. thank you for acknowledging this in psychotherapy. it's repulsive social psychology at best. Easy money for ruthless misogynists. Crushing abuse of power.

[@SallyMangos]

You guys would just love the, " Dear Joan and Jericha " podcast! lol

[@impagain]

Something that my therapist said to me was along the lines of "I feel like you aren't taking this very seriously. So maybe you should take a break from therapy until you learn how to open up, so you're not wasting your money, or my time". I thought she was supposed to ask me questions and figure out why I needed therapy, because I didn't know anything about how therapy worked. I was undiagnosed ADHD at the time, and I'm an extreme people pleaser, so I just agreed and left, but the rejection sensitivity dysphoria made it so i havent been back to any therapist in nearly 10 years. I don't want to bother anyone else, and now I dont want to burden anyone either.

[@lisalonge6050]

Seeking help on establishing boundaries with my narcissistic father (only child) who is going through cancer: "You need to get more involved. Go to his doctor appointments with him. Take time off work. Be there for him." "But how do I protect myself?" "You don't." I immediately switched therapists.

[@breeanaoldham2634]

Thank you sooo much! My husband and I are just like this! We switch “gender” roles all the time.

[@floydross9000]

Shockingly dramatic outro music haha. (Good commentary, though. Subscribing!)

[@angelb33ts]

My mother is a therapist and she says she struggles with patients that only want answers. I was also struggling with a friend and their boyfriend and she told me instead of telling someone what to do you have to plant the seed and see what they decide. I think that's really her therapy style.

[@mariellakoechl3609]

My therapist once said: "It's better to be unhappy in a relationship than not be in a relationship at all." He said that not being in a relationship makes us lonely and i couldnt disagree more. Being in a relationship that didnt make me feel loved and valued, made me feel lonelier that i have ever been single.

[@kzisnbkosplay3346]

I would nope out of that office in a heartbeat.

[@kiramccain6310]

To be fair, this area was overrun with need for therapy and few therapists in this therapists defense. But the worst thing i heard from a therapist was: "You aren't suicidal right? You're fine." and I was shown the door. Which was a struggle more at the time because I thought it was a mistake to seek help since it wasn't an emergency in the first place, luckily my father recommended I try again and the therapist that i lined up with at the center the second time was a much more helpful match for my needs at the time and helped me realize and target what was making me struggle so much.

[@canvasjockey4628]

First, glad I’m not a therapist, lol. Having come from a traditional background, and even starting out in more traditional role in my marriage (it was NOT for me), I have questions. As a therapist how do you walk the line between accepting the choice of role but still advocate for your patient to make choices to care for their own well being? How do you make sure they aren't on a path to an unhealthy, toxic or even abusive situation? I’ve been working a lot with my mom and mother in law, both widows that are struggling to learn things like how to pump gas, go through emissions, do taxes, etc. Sticking with their traditional roles meant they never bothered to learn to do things for themselves. Mom has been up nights worried that she’d have to rent out a room, a look at her finances shows us (and her) that she’s VERY comfortable, but she won’t believe it because she never learned how finances work, so she's white knuckling it through her senior years because her role didn't involve learning basic money management. And it works both ways, I have an uncle who after my aunt passed was completely incapable of caring for himself, didn’t even know how to boil water, wash clothes, vacuum, anything. Grief is hard enough without having trial by fire at an advanced age to learn what parts of adulting you’ve missed. No landlord is going to care that a widow was a dutiful wife for 50 years when she’s behind on rent, hell... see the story of the 82 yr old woman who owed $77 for trash service and was arrested.

[@ragnaice]

I was in a group therapy once and there was a woman who had been an affair partner and the therapist said to her 'you did nothing wrong' which outraged me, as the child of a cheating parent, and then he went on some weird tirade about 'there is no such thing as a mistake, or right or wrong'. I get that he was trying to get across some point about how we all do our best in the situation with the tools we've been given from childhood and all that. But it seemed like a really stupid take to me. If there is no right and wrong then what's the point of accountability or trying to change? That's when I learned not to put therapists on a pedestal.

[@samijodavis9204]

I, just recently, went to a therapist who asked me why I needed a therapist when I had a social worker. Said it in multiple ways that made me feel really uncomfortable.

[@Herachanotaku]

Worse "advice" (if you could call it that) from a therapist I ever got was right after one of my close friends lost her mother to COVID. Therapist asked how I was doing, told him I wasn't doing well at all, he asked me why, and I told him about my friend, and how worried I was about her. And he basically asked me why I had to be sad just because something bad happened to my friend. He said since it wasn't my mother, I should not be sad, and that I was choosing to be sad when I didn't have to be. And then argued with me when I tried to stop seeing him as my therapist. So... yeah. Not my best experience ever.

[@Turisan_from_the_Internet]

Lol, my favorite worst advice was growing up. I was bullied a lot as a kid, and my therapist told me to dissociate to cope with it. Was really not a good thing.

[@slosh177]

I have always told friends you have to find what works for you and who you are with. If someone wants to be a stay at home mom, that is their choice. My only issue is people deciding for me that I have to do that as well. Don't judge me and I won't judge you, there is room in this world for all types of wives and husbands and partners.

[@amandaidange4981]

I was raped and went to therapy to help with ptsd. My therapist said that I should have just said "no". And that I were just in an unfullfilling relationship.

[@sarahlandis289]

Geez, fire that therapist if you haven't already 😕

[@angiecas8180]

My husband and I are very traditional. Not like 1950's traditional; more like 1880 western home stread couple caught in the moden world. So many women have tried to connect me to resources that aren't helpful. I keep getting unwanted advice. I get guilt tripped often for not working, not persuing education. Even worse is that people always suspect the worst of my husband. This brought me to a point to thoughts of self harm. Im doing ok now. Just feeling really lonely because I cant open up about how I am without it being blamed on my husband, relegion or parents.

[@sarahlandis289]

I don't know that I fully understand where you're coming from, but my passion is to have a homestead and be a stay at home mom. And I agree: society loves to blame the man. If we ever had issues in the bedroom it was "his fault" if we asked for advice. It wasn't. I started seeing a therapist and things have gotten better. Also education isn't everything. At least you won't have to spend 20 years of your life paying off college debt. That's a smart move. 😁 This may have been a bit of a ramble, but I hope you don't feel so alone.

[@nataliestoemmer2151]

I had been stressed out of my mind at one of my previous jobs - a terrible work environment, extractive profit maximization above all else, self-esteem crushed in every meeting, all-male management team, overtime expected, the works. Covid lockdowns hit and we are supposed to put in even more time, working from home. I go see a therapist for the first time looking for support building myself up again, so I can work up the courage to quit and leave (I even stated my goal quite directly, I was expressly not looking for a diagnosis of any kind) - I got a assigned a male therapist - and after letting me explain my situation for a while, he just goes: "You know, you can't blame the powerful men in your life for all of your issues. You're not burned out, you're just depressed."

[@sarahlandis289]

Yow, what the heck 😕

[@hydratejsn]

Therapists putting all the blame and weight of emotional labor on women is so common! My mom recently went to couple therapy after learning my step dad cheated on their wedding afterparty years ago and she was told she should just "close that chapter" as if she was overreacting by being hurt because it was so long ago and "what matters now is he is present in their daughter's life". Also she was told that he is lazy and passive, because she demotivates and emasculates him by being too competent and that being hurt that he pretended to be a different person before they married is irrational because "everyone does that". Thankfully, me and my sis talked her into seeing someone else, but she was close to believe that craziness at one point.

[@RayF6126]

I responded with traditional to what Era? Cave men Era, Bronze Age, Farming or Industrial who am I supposed to emulate? That genuinely confuses people.

[@sarahlandis289]

Good response 😂