This might be my least favorite joint in woodworking

[@BillMSmith]

I see at least one other commenter mentioned my only use for the joint, cross grain work. And of course you omitted one of the prime joys, tapering the wrong side of one of the pieces. So much fun, so little time. Thanks for another fun video.

[@HowCommunicationWorks]

I made Paul Seller’s shaker bench using hand tools only. It requires 2 twelve inch tapered sliding dovetails. It was challenging but not easy. Nice video. I don’t have any of those power tools, so I’m stuck doing this stuff by hand.

[@ENCurtis]

Doing joinery by hand is a great exercise in developing an understanding for the why. I hope you found the challenge enjoyable!

[@vikramkrishnan6414]

Apropos 5:47 Almost all use cases of the sliding dovetail OI have seen are in places where glue is not used. E.g. removable shelving, knockdown furniture, attaching table aprons etc.

[@ENCurtis]

For sure. For removable components it's a brilliant joint.

[@dasdenny5495]

@@ENCurtis Not really, because the joint used as functional as intended and well made, it fits tight and is not ment to be removable.

[@climbmountainsblog]

​@@ENCurtis Can you elaborate on this? I am debating how I want to join crossgrain 80" long bed rails to the long-grain on a quartersawn post. I found your video because I want to know if a sliding dovetail is structurally sound enough for that. Post video, I'm still undecided. You seemed to focus on the bookshelf application of this joint, which has different grain orientation, board length and stress direction than what I'm doing.

[@ENCurtis]

@@climbmountainsblog if I’m understanding you correctly, you’re asking about attaching the bed rails to the legs? In that case, yes the sliding DT is a fantastic option.

[@climbmountainsblog]

@@ENCurtis Yeah, that's it. Thanks for the response. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to find an answer to my specific worries about both wood movement and the stress forces.

[@alanmuston3554]

I was one of those who commented on the first video and asked about sliding dovetails. Having seen your response on sliding dovetails I remain convinced that sliding dovetails are a viable option for me. This video persuaded me that 1. Badly cut sliding dovetails (too loose or too tight) suck 2. Cutting dovetails in timber which is not flat sucks I agree. So that the solution is to cut them correctly on properly prepared timber. The advantages in strength in circumstances where the load on the joint is at ninety degrees to the joint outweigh any disadvantages in my opinion. But (and this is crucial) I do not make furniture for a living. Time is not a factor in my making. Hence I do not care if I have to finesse a sliding dovetail to get it just right. The difference in approaches may simply be the reasonable and expected differences between what I as an enthusiastic hobbyist might do and what you might expect from professional for whom efficiency matters. That said though, I have not experienced the difficulties mentioned in the video to any significant degree.

[@roberthousedorfii1743]

TOTALLY agree. blaming the difficulty of the joint, because you can't cut the positive to the proper width so that it will glue easily is just honestly, damn ridiculous. ADDITIONALLY, using bowed wood? With a dado? You'll NEVER get that joint , on a corner, to clue properly. Just using warped wood and trying to justify anything that way gets you a ding. And your specialty joint will likely have short grain blowouts also. Kids, go learn woodworking from a master. I'd tell you to go learn from my uncle, but he's already gone. Don't listen to this guy.

[@mrscience1409]

Here is my problem with his original video. And something I thought about later. While sliding dovetails do have limited application, a dado with a domino has zero application. Fine, maybe its a super strong joint. But what force are you insuring against? Shear forces? Nope, the dado is plenty strong for shear forces. Racking? Nope, the domino does little to prevent racking. But the sliding dovetail is great to prevent racking and is usually plenty strong for shear forces. A domino in a dado is simply overengineering. A sliding dovetail is the proper joint for certain hardwood applications. Also, you do not use a sliding dovetail very often for the full length of a board. And if you do, you don't usually glue the entire length. Just the first 2-3 inches. You also don't use that joint for the end of a panel. You use regular dovetails, box joints, or blind dovetails. Try to think of when the last time you joined a panel inside a carcass but left a lip like that. And yes, if you are a sloppy imprecise woodworker, you will have problems. But you will have that with any joint if your sloppy.

[@lukasoldani2472]

Here in Europ we use the sliding dovetail primarly when we join long grain and cross grain. In this case you should not glue it together because change in humudity will crack your piece therefor you apply glue just on the last 1-2 in inches. I only use it in this application. Tipical exaple is the down side of a table top. And it should be a sliding dovetail. And yes, it is an advanced joint. I also tied one just with handtools on a wall mounted bockshelf. Challenching!

[@ehisey]

This how I learned to use it.

[@rolandgdean]

CORRECT...of course...there're multiple joining options that will hold long enough for a Client's grandchildren to fight over who gets the item after they're dead. I have the same issue with dovetails over box joints. I fond MOST people don't even know the difference and couldn't care less...and the box joint is a much easier path to the same end that is "expectations exceeded".

[@donesry2902]

Thank you for the video and for addressing one of my questions. It is definitely a finicky joint. The taper has to done correctly or your piece can get out of square. I have always used multiple layers of blue tape. I have not tried using a playing card.

[@ENCurtis]

Blue tape is a great option for that as well!

[@ajssbp]

Erik, just wanted to say ive enjoyed these last 2 longer format videos. I hope you consider doing more of them!

[@youzhou2946]

That's the most clear explanation to the sliding dovetail. A few weeks ago, when I making Paul Seller's sliding dovetail stool, it worked perfectly on test fit - but when I put glue on, it stuck and no matter how I hammered, or used clamp, just didn't move in. I have to use the clamp to take them out and sand them back. very frustrating

[@mwoody4560]

Erik, thank you for the video. Reading through the comments, this video seems to have controversy. Some of the commentators accused you of a knowledge gap with statements that indicated they didn’t really listen to what you said. Oh well, there are always some people that have a need to feel superior and point out how everyone else is wrong rather than just sharing an opinion as to why they think something may be looked at with a different perspective. I used to use sliding dovetails all the time. I used them to attach drawer sides to the drawer front. The positive dovetail would be on a baltic birch 1/2” plywood drawer side and the negative stopped dovetail dado on the drawer front. This made a very clean, nice looking drawer. The sliding dovetail ensured the drawer front was not coming off over time.

[@JohnBrown-hx5oy]

I understand your concern with using sliding dovetail joints in solid wood (especially the soft poplar demonstrated) near the edges. I don’t have a lot of experience in that area, but I think your issues are valid. However, I have used this joint successfully in 3/4 inch cabinet grade plywood. I used sliding dovetails for drawer fronts (and backs) for my twelve largest shop drawers. Three of these are three feet wide. Two of those are 16 inches deep and heavily loaded-enough to require two sets of 100 lb. full extension slides on each drawer. Most of the rest are two feet wide and 16 inches tall. I did not use ball bearing slides on these, which was a mistake, because the weight of all the tools and hardware I store in them have broken down the regular drawer slides. With all this, not one of my plywood dovetail joints have failed in the past 18 years. None of these drawers have mechanical fasteners-only glued dovetails, and they are as solid as the day I built them. In conclusion, I agree that sliding dovetails would be challenging, at best, when used with solid wood, but I don’t think you could build a more solid, secure drawer or box when using all plywood.

[@pelagicwanderer5216]

I hear you on the warping issue. I’ve had dovetails that don’t go together the same way the next day. If I have boards that are at final dimension and I can’t afford a little warp, I put them back in the board stack where I took the rough lumber before milling and put a couple boards on top. The stack of boards are all at the same moisture content, so it is stable in there…. then assemble as soon as possible in the next day or two.

[@einsteinbpc]

Another great video. It’s -52 C here with the windchill and I have to head out to my unheated shop to make some cuts on a new shelf. I’m going to need all the motivation from this video to get me through it. Cheers.

[@ENCurtis]

Cheers my man and good luck! Stay warm (or do your best) out there!

[@dnthasslehoff]

Dovetail bit sound was spot on

[@ENCurtis]

😂👊

[@williamshaffer2562]

Erik, another informative video. I like to use sliding dovetails in inside vertical work. I use it with hard wood only, because I do find soft wood will sometimes twist and warp in certain seasons here in Michigan. Keep them coming bud. Semper Fi .

[@ENCurtis]

Thanks, Will 👊

[@1deerndingo]

I recently built a shelving unit the had 12 shelves. And I hand cut sliding tapered dovetales for the shelves. I did it for the challenge. Bin there, done that. I'll be using a shouldered dado with dowels now. I'll still hand cut the dado and fit the shelf using a rebate plane, because. I can only see me using dovetales for draws, stiffening bars for table tops or by request. Great video. Sensible

[@myerscok]

Thanks April for another superb video. I love your style because it makes me think! You question things and talk about the aesthetics of the beauty of wood and creating items from this wonderful substance. Ken from Southport UK.

[@ronfreeman6023]

I really enjoy your tutorials,they give me the confidence to try new things in wood working.

[@WindRidgeWoodCrafts]

Great discussion, Eric. Lots of valid points, but I didn't see my favorite friction fighting method mentioned. My wife is a minister and I make boxes for many of her weddings over the years. I made the mistake of doing one with sliding dovetails 7 or 8 years ago, and have made 40-50 since then 🙂 The sliding dovetail is about 6" in the ones I make. My approach to dealing with friction is to use glue for only the bottom inch in the slot and to use wax for the last 3" or so of the tail. As you said, they don't require much glue, so an inch or so is plenty to keep it in place, and about the time the friction starts to become noticeable, the wax helps out. By keeping the glue in the bottom of the slot and wax at the top of the tail, they don't interfere with each other.

[@JASinIL2006]

Great video and I really appreciate the longer format. I’m sure the longer videos are more work to make, but the explanation coupled with the demonstration was really interesting. Thanks!

[@joeleonetti8976]

Thanks for the video. Hard to find data on how old joinery is because wood decomposes. At work, as part of our culture, I tossed in a few hobby slides in our science presentations. Mine focused on how old a lot of woodworking things were. The ax has been around for 1 million years. They found a tusked tenon that had been tossed down a well that was 10,000 years old. I’ve used a through wedged tenon in a dado on the back of drawers. A nice fancy touch that is hidden. I like hidden beauty in my woodworking. A sliding dovetail is on the list. In Becksvoort’s 15 drawer shaker cabinet, which I’m making, he used sliding dovetails. He only glued the last few inches for the reasons you mentioned.

[@angiegallegos1478]

Thanks for the video! In my case I have tools to create the sliding dovetail but not the domino, so I’ll try the sliding dovetail with your words of caution.

[@chriscrowe3527]

Ive just made my first sliding tapered dovetail, and the thing i like about it is that it makes assembly much easier. With a table you can knock inthe aprons with sliding dovetails and the table stands up on its own, no clamps required. Also i put the joint together with no glue with hand pressure as far as it goes on all joints, the put glue only on the exposed positive tongue and the exposed negative trench, then knock the joints all closed.

[@lrbrad4d]

I watched a KZbinr called Treebangem that had a 4 part video of a Shaker wall shelf he made from cherry. He used the sliding dovetails on the ends of his shelf. He used Titebond brown glue on the joints, but only the first 6" of the shelf and 6" opposite side. Went together well.

[@Ryan-rl9pm]

Excellent video as usual Eric. I must say I do enjoy the longer format videos for sure. You do excellent work and have gift for teaching the fine craft. THANKS !!

[@fmbjmf]

I'd like to add that where this can really work well is for cross grain where gluing is not an option. I've used the tapered sliding a few times to attach table tops on trestle tables. (inspired by Ishitani)And I just finished a 1 1/2 thick solid entry door for our garden shed. I really wanted a strong pair of cross members to keep it flat. I cut the cross members on the table saw and the door with a skill saw. In my case I just made the cross members well over length and trimmed once driven home. Through bolted the centre and then though bolted the ends with slots to allow for movement. I can attest first hand to the finicky fit of this joint.

[@ENCurtis]

That is an excellent point. Wish I had thought of that discussion point. Well said.

[@mydearriley]

What exactly is a trestle table? And what would you recommend knowing about Ishintani?

[@michaelmennuti4414]

@@mydearriley Ishitani is a Japanese furniture maker on youtube. A trestle table typically has two posts down to some sort of bases or feet, and one stretcher between the two posts to resist racking forces.

[@mydearriley]

@@michaelmennuti4414 Awesome! Thanks for sharing the knowledge!

[@greenmoondog]

First time using a sliding dovetail joint was in a cross grain application to keep a panel flat, no glue, friction fit. Worked well.

[@AJHDC]

As a lover of the tapered sliding dovetail, I really enjoyed the video. My family is from Hong Kong and sliding dovetails are in many of our antique wares. 1) All the sliding dovetails are tapered. 2) The profile of the dovetails are hidden, so they didn't like showing it off either. 3) They're typically used as backing for frame and panel joinery, where I think it shines. Andrew Hunter has a decent english language video showing this.

[@BakerVS]

This joint is (or was) common in the German speaking world, and there are even specialty handtools for cutting it. There's a plane called a 'Grathobel' that's like a fillister plane with an angled bottom, and a saw called a 'Gratsäge' (the only traditional western pull saw). With these tools it's a lot easier to do. There are a few great videos if you search 'Gratverbindung' (=sliding dovetail joint). They are in German, but there's still some great info.

[@KimButlerChannel]

Use these all the time building drawer boxes. Half blind dovetails. 😁 Just subscribed.

[@notmirelnam248]

Tenon and dado only functions when the pieces are immobile. Sliding dovetails can be used as a potential method of making... slides. Drawer slides, expanding tables, or a portable folding outfeed table for a jobsite tablesaw with an extending roller bar for making those extra long rips.

[@philaandrew100]

I use them, but only for centre verticle dividers because they look nice.... when they work....😁

[@ENCurtis]

And they do look nice! No doubt about that.

[@MatchaMakesThings]

What i do like about this channel is that Eric doesn't focus on HIS skills, its more about the ideas in general. He can do whatever, but he wants people to know all the facts and make their own decisions.

[@JorgTheElder]

In your example, you cut the dovetail slot much deeper than we were taught. It looks like it was about 4/5th the way through the board. I would never do it more than 2/3rds the depth. Was that just the demo piece or would you actually remove that much of the thickness of a board?

[@charlesberesford3495]

They are one of the best solutions for knockdown furniture, especially beds 1:48

[@ENCurtis]

For sure! They're a great option for knockdown furniture.

[@horacio1962]

Epoxy. Does not become binding in a tight joint. It actually would provide lubrication and assist in assembly. So, the new wrinkle that it adds therefore, is keeping it fixed to one position while it cures. Depending on the project - brad nails, tape, jig/stop blocks (taped to avoid attachment) and whether you care about visible fastenings (sometimes a feature) - screws with bunges, dowels, etc.

[@anthonyseiver7000]

Tapered sliding dovetails cut by hand are great fun, said nobody.

[@mymemeplex]

I both enjoyed and cursed my sliding dovetail cut by hand. I want to do it again giving a few years experience..

[@philaandrew100]

But they are fun😆 It's the years of therapy needed to recover from the trauma of the last one in a piece deciding to not play nice that isn't fun.......🤪

[@ENCurtis]

😂 accurate.

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

I agree, but disagree, kindasorta… the tapered sliding dovetail is wonderful for knockapart furniture, and if you are making a hanging cabinet that will have to hold heavy-ish objects on the bottom shelf. Not to mention that, aesthetically speaking, the exposed end of a sliding dovetail shows the maker’s skill is a cut or two above pocket-hole joinery. Finally, while I DO use glue on the back 1/3 of a tapered sliding dovetail, I like knowing that the mechanical strength of the joint will keep my piece of furniture together long enough for my great-grandchildren to use, whether I use magic yellow glue, Luddite hide glue, or no glue at all.

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

But so satisfying to achieve. Which is fun. So…

[@mypony891]

Thanks for showing this joint. This looks like it would be nice way to fit a table top for me. A way i don't have to use screws or glue. I like trying to see how i can build things which don't require those things

[@BrentJohnson-x1j]

I use them to attach corbels to kitchen island to support counter top overhang. Put a couple of screws also on inside of cabinet since they won't show. What other joint option wood you use?

[@BigHenFor]

The one he mentioned but you didn't hear.

[@crashkg]

I've made plenty of accidental tapered sliding dovetail joints. Just a little angle on the edge of the router, boom taper. That's why I try to use the circular end of the base instead of the straight side.

[@scmarinemom24]

My very first attempt at a coffee cabinet, I gave the sliding dovetail a try for the drawer front. I learned about blowout immediately. Lol. Wish I'd seen this first. But, the piece is for me, so live and learn, right? Thank you for this video, very helpful!

[@ENCurtis]

That's the right attitude to have!! Love that. Keep on keepin on my friend.

[@MurphyWoodcraftLLC]

The most perfect noise to describe a dovetail bit. Ever.

[@pascalgohier9171]

Thanks for the video Eric, A note on the use of your router, it is preferable to take reference on the round side of the base rather than on the flat side as you do.

[@PoeticJusticeSC]

I thought the same thing until I watched a video by The Wood Whisperer where he explains the advantages and disadvantages of using the round vs. flat side of the router base against a guide, and why he chooses to use the flat side.

[@jameselliott4564]

Good informative video. I do have to say something that involves geometry. When you set your taper for the negative slot you used the playing cards at the start of the taper. Then when taping the cards to your positive tail piece board, the thickness of the cards moved away from the beginning of the taper to somewhere inboard by the width of the cards themselves. I think this makes the taper different than the one on the negative board. To get around this, perhaps, is to use the card measurement, on the negative slot, away from the end of the board by the width of the cards similar to what you will have on the positive board. Nitpicky, maybe, but something to consider. Now I'm going to go make a thing. Jim

[@bendaco11]

True, wide sliding dovetails can be a catastrophe to drive home. However, i love the tapered version. I built a reproduction cherry secretary and used that joint on the drawer dividers. Each divider was a framed panel with tapered male dovetais on each end front to back. The female was cut horizontally directly into the cabinet sides. The divider shelves were deliberatly slightly too deep. When driven home I got a super tight dovetail joint that was visable from front. I trimmed off the excess with a hand plane. Glue only on front 2 inches. My dovetails were only 5/16" deep. Really give the case a solid feel and looks perfect.

[@MWAWoodworks]

YES! Out here throwing haymakers! Love your content format, brother!

[@emerald1587]

Really nice and informative video! Your explanation was perfect, I don't feel any reluctance about using this sliding dovetail, but your reservations also are very useful.

[@mypony891]

If you apply glue to the faces won't that stop the wood from freely expanding/contacting?

[@ehisey]

As it is being installed in the video it is just a fancy housing dado. When used cross grain, a common usage , you only glue the last 1 or 2 inches to allow for would movement.

[@mythreestars61]

base the joint on how the timber shrinks cos it will, only saying because your preferred joint has a few floors too, but hey thanks for the work it's good to watch. and hey what's wrong with using mdf or ply and using veneer... for cabinets solid timber not a good idea and wasteful.

[@bernieyorke6356]

I’ve used sliding dovetails to keep wide panels from warping. Worked very well, even in signs in outside applications

[@davidgodwin1951]

Grandpa always told me that you don't need to use glue on a sliding dovetail. He said that friction alone if you make a tight joint should be enough to keep it together. But then he was an old guy who did this for a living and who only used hand tools so what did he know.

[@ShuRugal]

As i watch you talking about the difficulty of making precise clearances to fit pieces together smoothly but without slop, i'm thinking "let me introduce you to my friends, Mr Micrometer and Mr DRO Bridgeport"

[@joebass5]

Where did you get your trim router base?

[@trooper1228]

Great video always wondered the best process of setting up the sliding dovetail. With that in mind I’ll probably go with the housed mortise method. Thanks!

[@jbman413]

I'm thinking back to the late 1960's in Japan. I remember a Japanese puzzle box. These could be opened, but you had to know how. Very fine joints. I was like 8 hard to remember. They were so cool!

[@ChrisHornberger]

Huh. Neato. I've always tapered the positive side with a sanding stick. I like this much better. Also, if all goes well, other than specific aesthetics for a client, I'll never bother with dovetails again. What you're calling a housed-M&T, I've been doing a long time with dowels, sometimes with through dowels, drilled in and flush cut after assembly. Glad to see I wasn't doing something utterly stupid. :)

[@mailleweaver]

You could shim that fence a little more easily and accurately by replacing the pencil line with a temporarily clamped stop. While the fence is still clamped, clamp another board up against it with any extra length hanging off the workpiece on the edge you're going to shim. Then un-clamp the fence, put your shims in-between the fence and clamped board, and clamp the fence back down. Now you know both ends of the fence are exactly where you intended them to be. When shimming the positive piece, remove one card to account for the tape adding extra thickness.

[@karl_alan]

Personally, regarding the friction issue & it siezing up mid glue-up, i have found a rubber mallet brings it all home the rest of the way fairly well.

[@thomlipiczky9021]

Do I understand correctly that you taper the "male" (I think you call it more elegantly the "positive") element on one side only? And your "negative" slot is also tapered on one side only? In order to keep things square, do you note which side of the "positive" piece gets the taper? Didn't see this in the video. Maybe I'm not getting what you did. Nevertheless, I enjoy your videos and really appreciate your very practical approach to technique. Your design sense is really nice. Thanks.

[@andyevans8585]

Haha, saw the title of this and thought "I wonder if that was in response to my comment". Great video as always mate. Personally I've found them pretty easy but you are very right about the warping. I tend to aim to do the glue up with them on the same day 😆

[@justinkayce9811]

I love sliding dovetails. I always make mine with a dado/groove shoulder and a hidden shoulder on the edge. Most all my aprons and shelves are used with them. But then again, I'm just an amateur with an Incra LS so it's just enjoyable to make imo.

[@pctatc66]

That MLCS lift is the bomb! couple that with an incra fence and you have a manual CNC lol

[@ENCurtis]

Dude it's the BEST

[@South3rnWoodworking]

I have that same trim router, and one day, I was using it, and it stopped. I don't know what's wrong with it, but I turn it on, and the LED light comes on, but there's humming buzzing or movement from the motor. I could use some suggestions on troubleshooting

[@johnstivers6405]

Great video as always. Can this be accomplished on tool with Origin or must you use a cad program?

[@ENCurtis]

The Origin is actually my favorite way to cut this joint. It's a little tricky to get it set up but it's super repeatable.

[@chipsterb4946]

I enjoyed this presentation. Your comments at the end about wood being a fickle mistress are well said. A friend of mine, far more advanced in woodworking, used a sliding tapered dovetail in a piece of furniture. It was perfect for his overall design of that particular piece. It looked fantastic. I don’t think he will ever cut one again…

[@ENCurtis]

😂 That about sums up most people's use of the sliding dovetail. But when you want that aesthetic choice it is perfect.

[@p8ntblr1]

In a tapered dovetail isn't the joint weak at the front because the joint line is farther apart?

[@MikeyDonna]

Guess what I’ve been messing with for a week, “ a Leigh Dovetail jig”. Don’t laugh 😂, I’m an 83 year old DIY. Small project person and a tool junky. I really enjoyed this video and would send you an offering $$ but I need a new Dove Tail bit. 😊

[@SigurtDinesen]

Nitpicking a little, but mechanical advantage is specifically when the geometry of a thing amplifies the force applied to certain places on it. Like a lever. We often use the term "mechanical joint" to describe a joint that is not purely held together by glue, but also (or purely) by the normal forces of the mated parts. This is not mechanical advantage though.

[@ENCurtis]

That's good to know! While it's a common term in woodworking it's interesting that it's not the "proper" term.

[@SigurtDinesen]

@@ENCurtis I mean it sort of makes sense in this use. I don't think I've heard anyone use it like that outside of your videos, but you know. I'm not going to pretend that my experience of woodworking vocabulary is in any way representative :)

[@ehisey]

Technically it is still correct to refer to it as having a mechanical advantage over a housing dado or but joint. Why becuase it is the mechanical superior joint.

[@tommoeller7149]

Great analysis. Fun and informative. Thx.

[@davidcorliss]

I have seen people use a dove tail on miter stations to use dovetail clamps as a stop block is this a good option over using a dado and inserting a t-track in the dado?

[@davidveldhoen2765]

Hey, Eric. I agree with what you put down, but…you forgot to talk about when a sliding dovetail is the bomb. I.e. cross grain support. Even better a notched sliding dovetail (if that is what it’s called, allows it to be installed internally. Yes finicky to produce but performs a role no other joint can. Keep it up, enjoy the contemplation these videos encourage.

[@davidveldhoen2765]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/noKUdYmpgJyVl5Ysi=BY8PuD60wtBEb6ZZ

[@ndamico1]

I had to work this morning. But at least this video made it easier. I hope I’m never inclined to use this joint and therefore totally jack it up 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@paulruud5804]

I really enjoyed this one. I appreciate how the longer format may be more work. Or maybe it's less, because you don't have to edit so carefully? I don't know. You decide. 🎸

[@ENCurtis]

Thanks Paul! It's a bit more time with the longer formats, so I'm glad you're enjoying them!

[@Shadowveil26]

How would you do this joint if you didn’t have a router table?

[@karl_alan]

There are a ton of ways. Could use a jig....or even cut fully by hand using saw & chisel with some guides.

[@Shadowveil26]

@@karl_alan unfortunately I wouldn’t know where to start with making a jig, and the full on hand tool method I feel would take way to long, especially if you’re on a set time frame. But, thank you for the input. It is appreciated 😊

[@RamaSivamani]

Hmm I was thinking of making a tablet/ipad holder for my mom and was going to use a tapered sliding dovetail for the "shelf" piece that the tablet would rest on so I wouldn't need to deal with glue and I could always pop out the shelf piece with a mallet and replace it if need or if it damaged or something. Would a dado work just as well because that would still have mechanical support in the direction that it needs to be supported.

[@redprimo8058]

There is another variation called a blind segmented sliding dovetail, where both ends of the 'slot' are stopped. The tail is then divided into an even number of segments, and every other one is removed. On the opposite sections of the slot, the angle of the sides is removed, converting those areas to dados. This will allow you to insert the tail board and slide it into place. Traditionally, it is only glued or pinned in the middle of the entire board.

[@Gottenhimfella]

Central Pinning (instead of gluing) is a good option for securing a dovetail, I reckon, in cases where board width and ambient humidity variations means there will be a lot of cross grain expansion and contraction

[@VertexCarver]

Pros: - Mechanical joint that locks 2 out of 3 axis. - Let's woodmovement do it's thing - Made easy by router bit &/or jiggs. - Can be made either tapered, partial or stoped. ( Which eliminates issues with assembly & look. ) - The look of the sliding dovetail is both a pro & a con. Con: - Can be overly complex & timeconsuming if done by hand or on long pieces. - Takes up a fair amount of material & in turn makes board ends weak. ( I'd argue that a dado close to board edges are marginally less shit... Both are just not the joint for that kind of job. ) - The look of the sliding dovetail is both a pro & a con. The more I've thought about this while watching, I think the silding dovetail is probably overkill for most applications & kind of the same "category joint" as the "stub-tennon dado". At least it seems to me that at a macro level it comes down to how you'd prefere to over-engineer your joints so it lasts more than one lifetime & can take a serious beating.

[@richardh6964]

I rarely use sliding dovetails for all the reasons you mention. I will occasionally use them as a feature of the piece but loose tenons are generally much easier and just as strong. As you mentioned sliding dovetails are a joint developed to overcome the limitations of the types of glue we used a long time ago. One could argue dovetails also fall in that category. Long grain to long grain joints with pvc joints are stronger than the wood fibers. short grain joints are not that strong even with modern glue which is why dados and your hidden tenon joints work so well. They add a long grain to long grain connection to the joint.

[@ENCurtis]

Agreed on all fronts!

[@justinswett3724]

How do you choose the depth? 80% of the thickness?

[@rontirona7921]

What application do you use the sliding d0vetail?

[@1deerndingo]

What's in the tool roll in the single shelf on the wall.

[@MPlett10]

What would your opinion be on using this joint to attach an apron to a table leg?

[@karl_alan]

I know I'm not him, but that's a great application, and in some regions is a fairly traditional way to do it.

[@omidfarsani]

Where can I get the mug?

[@Patrick-kc5ur]

Forget the playing card shims. Put an adjusting screw on the right end of your fence that you can screw in to get any amount of taper you want from zero to 1 degree. No loose parts and if you want to get very precise, use a round knob with index marks.

[@mattb4577]

I understand your views on this joint and agree that they can be a right pain, although the one dovetail joint you didn’t mention is the housed dovetail which has its place, especially on large tables.

[@ENCurtis]

Sure, it certainly has it's place. Can't deny that.

[@nialstewart8263]

Eric, by only widening one side of the socket I presume you have to be careful which side you add the 'shims' when cutting the positive? Fantastic channel/ work / tutorials BTW.

[@ga5743]

Sweet video I never heard of a tapered dovetail joint. Thanks for the information as usual. Enjoy your day Erik.

[@juliepelletierstyba9907]

would you consider using your finish on project like stairs and handrails? Also, what if you want to keep the maple as white as possible, could you swap the Liberon finishing oil with a water based product?

[@alastairdonaldson-jj9vh]

You make a great video, but having restored countless pieces of antique furniture I've hardly ever found the hide glue to be a problem. I'd go as far as to say that I wish it sometimes was. I think something from the 18th century that has stayed together that long is fair testament. Biggest problem is change of moisture content as you know. Keep it up. Best wishes. Al.

[@Z-add]

You can get dovetail bits with a low 8deg angle that won't be a problem with blowout.

[@TheWeekendWoodshop]

Most controversial way to open a woodworking video in 2024..."Sliding dove tails are trash." - E Curtis Seriously though, great explanation of this joint. I see a lot of cons with using a sliding dovetail. Definitely more cons than pros in my opinion. Great video as always 😁

[@JohnC-k9y]

Erik, couldn't you use the Shaper Origin to cut the tapered sliding dovetail?

[@gregdeitrick6073]

Thanks for the presentation on sliding dovetails. Regarding the joint in your previous video, I find it odd that you wouldn't just cut a dado to within 1/4" of a through cut and call it a day. I see no advantages of converting this to mortise and tenons (loose or otherwise) except for wedged through tenons.

[@mrscience1409]

exactly

[@kevingade5615]

Oh No!!! Another controversial subject!! Love your videos, Keep em talking!

[@barrychristian4050]

Nice video, I put them in the " kinda redundant" traditional joints like the secret mitred dovetail. Can't remember the exact name but back in my apprenticeship while at college we were shown a sliding " keyhole?" Joint where 2 or more no10 screws were screwed into the end of one board and opposing " keyholes" in the other, which in my 30+ years as a joiner have never used

[@ENCurtis]

That sounds like the definition of a "kinda redundant" joint! I've never seen that but I can think of 10 different joints that might be either more efficient or stronger 😂

[@DaddyBooneDon]

Again, awesome soundtrack. What's the first tune?

[@christopherjohnson5961]

FR thought when you said “the aesthetics of the object…” you were about to say “is the only thing that matters” hahaha

[@karl_alan]

Eh. To each their own. I enjoy using it, but can understand why you don't & enjoyed the dialog

[@fins9584]

I tried to figure out how many times I would get the taper reversed between the dovetail and the receiving slot, and the answer I came up with was "yes."

[@taylorseigler]

Or taper the wrong side and end up with out-of-square panels!

[@pctatc66]

tapered sliding dovetails ftw.. though they are hard to set up and get perfect. very easy to blow through and make them gappy (new word) on the face

[@ENCurtis]

I couldn't have summed it up better myself!

[@dasdenny5495]

I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound like there is much knowledge on this wood joint. The sliding dovetail is a wooden joint that serves to keep the large piece of wood straight. Precisely because the longitudinal and transverse timbers are brought together here, the longitudinal timber is prevented from bowing in the transverse direction. This joint is therefore not an aesthetic joint, but a purely functional joint. Used in this way, it is never glued, as otherwise the wood can no longer expand and contract over the entire length due to the gluing and will break. The joint is also slightly tapered along its length and is usually hammered in on the last third. This ensures that it stays together for a long time. Table tops are still classically held straight in this way today. Using the joint for a wall near the end of the board, the joint is not made for it, as no real carpenter would try this and would think the of using this joint near the end of a board. It's ment to be used only for funktional reasons and not to joint a wall to your base plate! The popular C-channels do not do this, as the drilling points are the only connection, whereas the Sliding Dovetai Joint has a connection over the entire surface. Maybe that is the reason, that in some countries you need a master certificate to open a shop as a carpenter for living.

[@dianeewoldt3035]

Excellent explanation of the functional use of a sliding dovetail joint (amen to no glue in the sliding dovetail joint).

[@jingscrivvens8363]

YOU GET HIM TELT!!

[@Adather]

Good comment. Much more information that in while video

[@matthewcosti5206]

He mentions this exact point of it being used to keep things flat briefly at 4:37, and then the entire second half is devoted to showing how to make a tapered sliding dovetail so that you mallet the last third like you described. I agree he could have talked more about this flattening/straightening use case though instead of it being a quick few second comment.

[@karl_alan]

That is a very good explanation for the situation in which sliding dovetails are used most and are essential. I will argue, if someone is using the sliding dovetail for shelves or something of that nature, there is no real negative to it, especially if they have particularly figured or ornery case sides they are trying to keep straight. And in that case, where it is maybe 5-8 inches deep, gluing it (especially if they only glue the front edge, like you would only glue the top of the dowel in a breadboard end) will not cause a huge issue with expansion and contraction among most species, since the expansion and contraction is so few mm over the course of such a short distance. I also agree that no one would use this joint so close to the base/end of the piece like in his example part way through. Although I'll also argue that he did go to school for this....he's talked in several episodes about his history of schooling, training & certifying with this.