Justice League: Cry for Justice #1-2 - Atop the Fourth Wall

Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this episode, Linkara looks at the infamous Justice League mini-series by James Robinson!
ORIGINAL INFO: Trust me - by the end of this, there will be crying.
Originally uploaded January 3rd, 2011.
RUMINATIONS: I friggin’ hate this comic.
Basically everything I say in these episodes is true - the hype around the comic, the constantly-shifting editorial stances on it and what form a James Robinson Justice League title would take (eventually Robinson would work with the regular JLA, but brought on more former Teen Titans to the group, but sadly it seemed to get bogged down in pointless crossover after pointless crossover [seriously why are we still doing events centered around Doomsday?]). The team membership kept shifting, the point of the book was forgotten, and in the end it was used as the platform to relaunch the Green Arrow family. And dear lord was it SO botched. The effects of that are still felt today with Arsenal and his stupid trucker hat in Red Hood and the Outlaws. Robinson is a fantastic writer and has a real appreciation for the legacy of the DCU. He’s killed characters before, but he always did it with a sense of appreciation for the character, tried to do right by them.
And then this crap, with retcons, nonsensical plans, and the death of a little girl so that Arsenal can start doing drugs again with his stupid cyborg arm. Yaaaay.
As for plot stuff, we’ll get more into that next week, but what I will say for now is that as soon as Joe had unveiled his new set - the Angry Joe Space Station - I knew I wanted him on the action and he graciously accepted, providing a pivotal piece of the finale to the Vyce arc.

[@Canadamus_Prime]

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

[@Jacoboby1]

This comic in a nutshell...

[@Phoebe5448]

"JUSTICE!! JUSTICE JUSTICE JUSTICE!!" "Justice?" "JUSTICE!!"

[@troin3925]

Not even the Crimson Chin says justice this much.

[@TheLowBrassDude]

Unless the writer tells him too!

[@onemariobro]

So essentially Hal wanted the justice league to become the regime from the Injustice universe where Superman became so obsessed with stopping crime, he ended up becoming the thing wanted to put an end to

[@TheBronzeDog]

Idea: "I'm a proactive superhero! I use my superpowers to set up a free clinic, and social programs to cut down the problems that lead to drug addiction!" Not exactly the excitement the executives want, though I'd like to see stories about other ways heroes help.

[@Predator20357]

Yah, just a entire story about Bruce Wayne doing stuff like this, No over arching villain story, just people being kind

[@off-the-grounder568]

A terrakinetic hero builds the clinic

[@LaineMann]

Dammit you just gave someone in Japan an idea for a light novel series.

[@paulmahoney7619]

If nothing else it could work well as a supporting narrative to a conventional book, both the main hero and heroes with less combat-relevant abilities using their powers to help fix social ills and maybe even pressure people in power to change laws and policies that create the conditions for injustice.

[@snakes3425]

"I'm Ray Palmer Welcome to Pain." Why isn't that an internet meme yet

[@thatonkgau5221]

I don't know, I've rewatched this several times just to here that line, it's so hilarious

[@topcatninjahousepetsdigian9336]

@@thatonkgau5221 Maybe It's Because A B LIST SUPERHERO Said It?"

[@LaineMann]

Or a shirt.

[@ilopominecrafter]

Well it has become a running gag on linkara’s show to this day

[@MrGMoney1944]

​@topcatninjahousepetsdigian9336 That's a good point if you need someone for science in the plot he's a good pick. Likewise the illustrator probably loves having him you know draw only half of him sticking out of a pocket or not having to draw anything because he is so small.

[@Dreigonix]

Something I just realized: The general concept of Cry For Justice has been written before. A “hero” trying to purge the world of evil by slaughtering everyone who commits or may commit evil acts. But this other story was good and well-written. This other story portrayed this “hero” as the villain he truly was. This other story... was called _Death Note._

[@xavier8951]

Except the "heroes" in Cry for Justice didn't kill the villains, they tortured them.

[@Dreigonix]

Yeah. So they’re even worse.

[@xavier8951]

@@Dreigonix As Linkara mentioned himself a few times, it makes the heroes more like villains.

[@Dreamerwild]

Hal Jordan "We need to track down the villains. All the villains. All the evil." Oh my God! Hal has been replaced by a Manhunter Robot! Dun Dun Duuuuunnnnnnnnn

[@TheLyokoWarriors]

+Dylan Cookson ...Has that ever happened before? If not, can a good writing team get a hold of it, please? That sounds like an interesting story idea right there.

[@spiderbatman97]

+TheLyokoWarriors That was part of the premise of the millenium event in 1988, althought they never remplaced Hal

[@zicyzacbonanza]

The talk about Justice at the start reminds me of a speech Captain America makes about the Avengers name in one comic. He says they are the Avengers because they only go in when all other options for peace or ordinary law enforcement to work have failed and so there is often a need for avenging people. I think it's a good explanation for why superhero teams are usually reactionary, especially when the individuals have their own adventures that doesn't warrant a full team.

[@thecollector527]

"I'm Ray Palmer... WELCOME TO PAIN!" I want it on a T-Shirt!

[@dnmstarsi]

I'd cry for THAT! Have a picture of CRJ Ray pointing up and saying "(S)He's a Hero, I'm Ray Palmer. Welcome to Pain."

[@ecliptorcalrissian5014]

And get Brandon Routh to wear it!

[@matthewjarek3026]

NO!!! You’ll only encourage them!

[@zacharyroth3028]

I’m sorry is this the atom or Casey Jones

[@RabblesTheBinx]

@@ecliptorcalrissian5014 it's a pity that he never said that once during his entire tenure in the Arrowverse. I mean, it's not surprising, it's a stupid line from a stupider comic, but a pity, all the same.

[@professorBofFPU]

This comic makes me furious. Green Arrow would never join a crusade like this due to his liberal beliefs. He would've been the one trying to talk Hal down from his cockamamie idea of "justice." But what makes me REALLY angry is that it utterly destroys the character arc Oliver had been going through since he was brought back in the Quiver story by Kevin Smith. He'd been brought back to life, and worked to repair the relationships with his loved ones, including Roy Harper, Conner Hawke, & Black Canary. He even took in a Mia Dearden, helped her get off drugs and stop being a child prostitute, trained her to be the new Speedy and supported her when she found out she was HIV positive, helping her the way he failed to do with Roy when he needed it. This all culminated in him proposing to Black Canary, which she accepted. Then this story happened and I got to see my favorite hero got to have his life ruined all over again after I'd seen him triumphant. It nearly made me quit reading comics.

[@darthparallax5207]

Green Arrow Is liberal....not sure what it would take to drive him over the edge. I don't think it would be this. if anything, it would probably have to be Parallax-related to make him crack and go SJW-leftist instead of consistently-restrained centrist. the Majority of Green Arrow's conscience would be against this kind of stuff. but exactly like any fall of a hero from grace, I believe he could be pushed over the edge. I just don't think this is showing a good example of how to show EVIL FASCIST GREEN ARROW. I'd really like to see Sinestro corrupt him though. only let a competent writer try though.

[@rockdesu]

Do you seek justice?

[@a-dub6434]

He's dc very own impotent rage Gta V refrence

[@gundamfan7541]

I pretty much feel the same way with Hal Jordan, yeah hes definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed but he wasnt as moronic and an ass like he is in cry for justice, especially when he works IN THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS basically space cops nearly all the time REACT to something happening in the universe and Hal has been continously been a more reactive superhero as well so how exactly does he think being proactive works and how the hell could it even work unless he goes against the corps orders?!?! God this piece of trash comic sucks!!!

[@theangryholmesian4556]

@@darthparallax5207 "SJW" aaaand you have no argument.

[@luckystriker842]

Remember the episode of Justice League where Superman apparently died, but was actually sent into a post-apocalyptic future? Okay, remember how that episode ended? Superman returns to the present and then the city fades into existence, showing that the Justice League won without even showing the battle? Alright, remember how that subtle ending was really effective and awesome? How is it that the Saturday morning cartoon for kids is better written than the "mature" comic book for adults.

[@marthia8015]

That's honestly true for a good portion of the Animated DC Universe. I actually think that that might be in part because the shows where primarily meant for kids. Every little adult theme, be it violence, sex, abusive relationships, mental health issues etc. had to be done as subtle as possible to get past the censors, so they never got to use death or rape for shock value, or claim to be mature just because two characters had sex. Even the uncensored cut of Return of the Joker didn't draw out the torture and death scenes longer then necessary, and that is probably the darkest part of the DCAU. Of course, it also helped that the DCAU wasn't run by idiots like current DC seems to be.

[@jacksimpson8529]

I loved that episode, I wanted more redeemed vandal Savage in DCAU, I loved that they cared about Supes that much, I loved Supes had enough ingenuity to survive in post-apocalypse Earth with no powers. That episode was great, super great, one of the rare times that I liked DC anime better than Marvel. I seriously cry when Superman is flung into the future, because his team is so sad and angry that he's gone. I also cry when he comes back, because they're so happy he came back. Finally, I cry when Vandal Savage fades from existence as the new future city is formed around him, he managed to save the future, even at the cost of his own life/current existence. I cry every time. I'm crying now. :(

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@marthia8015 Sadly Bruce Timm has gone the way f Bill Jemas and Frank Miller. if his unnecesary "Batman and Batgirl had sex" quick implied scene in Killing Joke is anything to go by

[@dnmstarsi]

Because Dwayne McDuffie wanted to tell a Death and Return of Superman story that kids and DC fan would love and talk about years later. James Robinson wanted to tell a story about some DC heroes seeking justice with writing he found to be dark. Both have pros and cons but the former easily wrote the better tale IMO.

[@dnmstarsi]

@@ianr.navahuber2195 I dunno. While that idea is gross IMO, I wouldn't quite say he got infected by that parasite yet. But then again, Bruce produced the movie while Brian Azzarello wrote the film version. And yes, there's the comics but that's non canon thankfully... Although does one consider cheesecake to be an issue?

[@Kolbatsu]

Step back everyone, Justice League is trying to be "edgy" again.

[@dnmstarsi]

+Kolbatsu They should've been Gay for Justice...

[@billtenth5805]

Kolbatsu Seriously, Shadow The Hedgehog the game was better at being edgy than this comic.

[@anthonyrodriguez1119]

Bill Tenth the sad thing is your not wrong.

[@billtenth5805]

Anthony Rodriguez Thanks man. Although, what really drives the point home is that, Shadow The Hedgehog got a good sequel as well (Sonic Universe: Shadow Fall) while all Cry For Justice got was Rise Of Arsenal.

[@Gamemaniac92711]

"They hurt us, we hurt them back" ... thats still reactive?? the hell??

[@LordQuadros]

This book uses "Justice" the same way Mortal Kombat: Defenders of the Realm uses "Kombat Time."

[@Phoebe5448]

Stryker: "We need to come up with a strategy to successfully counteract-" Sonya: "KoMBaT TiMe!!" The Leeroy Jenkins meme before Leeroy Jenkins. Memories.

[@thatonkgau5221]

I know I sware to God it's like they have a hard on for it or something.

[@GatorRay]

Funny how that cartoon only lasted 13 episodes.

[@dnmstarsi]

​@@GatorRayFunny how that cartoon is more fondly remembered than this story.

[@JomasterTheSecond]

"I'm Ray Palmer, welcome to pain." "I am Magneto, welcome to die!"

[@Phoebe5448]

He is also Master Of Magnet!!

[@Mokona7654]

I feel like "Gay for Justice" could have been a comic about LGBT heroes teaming up, but nooooo, we have this shit instead...

[@misterbubbles6389]

I'd read that.

[@josephcage7955]

Man, I would write that.

[@iron1349]

They could make some up/decide existing characters are gay

[@Mokona7654]

Marvel is kinda bad at handling its lgbt characters, what with Iceman being forcibly outed and Lucy In The Sky being sent into space. DC has a few that were never retconned into existence... And Batwoman. But picture this: Midnighter, Batwoman, Bunker, Ya'Wara, Alpha Centurion, Rainmaker, Virtue, and Burden. TOGETHER, THEY FIGHT CRIME, AND ACTUALLY ARE GAY FOR JUSTICE.

[@dragonempress8367]

Mokona7654 cool enough we have LGBT children's clothing now we just need comics about it.

[@prkr07]

"I figured the League members were just gonna sit around and play video games all day!" Unironically, this comic would have been far better if it were about that. And the "Cry for Justice" was Hal yelling at Cyborg to fix their game of Mario Kart (Batman hacked it so that blue shells would always target Hal's racer. Even his own blue shells.)

[@fearsomemanic]

Dude, that's a money idea, pure comedy gold! I'd love to read that story. 😁

[@plantainsame2049]

@@fearsomemanic not much you could actually make it a great story by having them actually act like people and talk about their feelings and s***

[@fearsomemanic]

@@plantainsame2049 Without the right writer it wouldn't be a strong enough idea to be a long epic story, maybe an issue or two.

[@Rabbitlord108]

There were a couple of Cartoon Network commercials in the 2000's showing the main characters doing nothing. One of them featured Batman.

[@dnmstarsi]

Ngl, I'd read a comic about them playing the Injustice games. It'd be like the equivalent of the Ember Island episode of Avatar where they take jabs at how Netherrealm made them so dark and unlikable despite having decent stuff in it. And I say this as someone who enjoys those games. LOL

[@pinionatedminion38]

You know, I like the idea of a proactive JLA, but not in a hunt-them-down-before-they-are-proven-guilty way. I can imagine Batman lobbying various organizations to get more surveillance devices in a way that probably would have parallels with the war on terror. Maybe Superman speaks out against this, making Bruce remark that Clark eavesdrops literally always. Make Hal would side with Batman because of his roots with the American Military, putting the Liberal Green Arrow at odds with his longtime friend. Or maybe Diana uses her connections to literally turn the JLA into a peacekeeping organization, like our NATO or League of Nations, that works with unpowered experts in diplomacy, criminal justice, or national security to make the work safer. Heck, maybe Supes brings Kandor to the Watchtower and declares it an embassy, I don't know. Now you have Superman and GL doing disaster relief, Wonder Woman and Hawkgirl arranging meet ups between humans and aliens/the supernatural, and maybe Red Tornado pushing for Robot rights or helping reform Villains. Meanwhile, Batman, Green Arrow, and some others have to adjust to taking orders and being put into positions of real power. If you want to go REAL hard, maybe have Batman unmask to prove the League's humanitarian intentions. Yeah, it's a rip-off of Spiderman's unmasking, but the point still stands. Point is it could be interesting to have a JLA that wants to be more than a police force.

[@willowbarrelmaker8269]

A JLA that ACTUALLY wants to prevent crimes instead of just torturing known criminals for funsies. I like.

[@shawdawg3675]

@@willowbarrelmaker8269 That is what should happen. Take Marvel for example in the same situation. Someone finds info on the Red Skull's location. He hasnt schemed or done an attack in a while, but he is still a villain and wanted. Send in the Avengers before he does something. I disagree with Linkara's they are not "criminals" till they do something, most of the bad guys are wanted. Few have served their prison time and are no longer wanted, so the heroes would have to wait.

[@romdan7136]

@@shawdawg3675 Yes, but the issue was that the interview seemed to imply ALL criminals, not just wanted men

[@CommentingCommenter]

That would be cool to see.

[@tazzreviews1578]

I just noticed that Sinestro and Joker are on the cover of the comic and yet they never appear in it!

[@MTdaBlacking]

False advertising!

[@Tareltonlives]

I guess they need....JUSTICE!

[@anthonyrodriguez1119]

Tyler Shewchuk well knowing the idiotic writer's Joker would have been Prometheus level's of Uber villian and sinestro would either have been a complete jobber being taken down by Hal and Ollie or he would have been one of Prometheuses stoolie's.

[@GatorRay]

@@Tareltonlives Imagine if they were originally going to pull a Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker and have Tim Drake be captured and tortured by The Joker. But instead, he escapes and shouts "I WANT JUSTICE" to a security camera.

[@thedenmeister6414]

Here's a drinking game: Take a drink everytime you hear the word "justice"

[@lavacomic-geek3346]

I think that will kill someone.

[@Soupgirlpeasant]

DenMon 2019 Dear god, not the livers!

[@guyincognito7509]

DenMon 2019 Okay! [does so] umnnnmmmuh... hey... somebody... URK... call 911.... I think we got an emergency... ugh...

[@theshipper5797]

That'll kill people more then the Stephen King drinking game.

[@thomasink5264]

I'd rather not die today

[@gideon5386]

Okay I'll admit, I laughed at the whole "Gay for Justice" thing. But only because of the sheer incompetence.

[@XxSombreroguyxX]

Well who wouldn't go gay for justice

[@Bauglir100]

+Garrett Knisley "And together, we ARE gay for justice!" - Firebrand

[@autobotstarscream765]

Well, Mikal is gay and wants justice, right?

[@Penndragon1027]

Honestly, as weird as this may sound, this could’ve been a really cool comic idea?? Like imagine a short comic run where some of DC’s LGBTQ heroes/anti-heroes (Batwoman, Midnighter, the Question, etc) teamed up to fight crime. It’d be AMAZING

[@yourfavoritegames4971]

@@Penndragon1027 but not called Gay for Justice because that is funny but is insane for a serious book

[@shadowspider9]

The biggest problem is that this 'proactive superhero' idea really only has one place it can go. The Minority Report method of hunting down and killing villains before they commit their next crime. Something that can't happen simply because comics never kill villains off for good. Meaning the only kind of justice they are can bring, due to status quo, is taking them to jail. Which they were already doing.

[@o76923]

Time travel is another option. Find out who will commit a crime in the future, go back to the past and change their life in some way so that they won't. It's an even worse idea but, come on, this is DC. When have they found a bad idea that they didn't like?

[@connorrivers995]

Nothing tells you that you're watching an old episode more than the slight echo that instantly tells you that this was made before Linkara bought a boom mic.

[@GatorRay]

I will say this. At least the audio doesn't sound like it was recorded with a potato.

[@ChristianNeihart]

Roy should have had Snowflame for a dealer.

[@islamroks11]

Christian Neihart That would keep him OFF drugs.

[@alexanderfix3629]

+islamroks11 Exactly, plus it might push the book more fully into "unintentionally comedic" territory.

[@armandotorres8962]

That would have made Rise of Arsenal better

[@Soupgirlpeasant]

"Welcome to pain" what a great way to summarize the beginning of this shitty comic series.

[@ceruleanwalker1069]

Proactive superheroes always seemed like a dumb idea to me. They aren't police, they aren't detectives (no, not even batman.) They're emergency response. They're international rescue.

[@zenoblues7787]

Did Robinson not know the difference between justice and vengeance?

[@carlossilva6828]

the movie the son of batman analyze and addresses that much better when batman teaches damian that, justice not vengeance, this comic can go to hell or i should say this comic can go to... !!!JUSTICE!!! ugh!

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@carlossilva6828 WELL another angle you could tackle would be "What's the difference between justice and revenge?". and someone bringout out good points like "How Is Batman just putting Joker in jail Justice? He will escpae again and kill many others like he has done before" (like the Red Hood movie pointed out), or differences between dealig with villains while being proactive. Like how Flash in the Justice League Unlimited handled a bad guy just wih a talk and coninced him to take his medicine again. It would offer different interpratations of justice. Or if you have to go shock value, go analytical shock value. like exactly what'sjustice when dealing with pedophiles or something like that? Or is justice something one should decide or the many should decide. like in the "Superman Vs the Elite" movie showcases when the crowd cheers when Manchester Black kills Atomic Skull (who has kiled quite a few in the movie with no signs of wanting to change)ad while superman is horrorified, the crowd cheers. But that would imply this comic is even worse for that wasted potential

[@dnmstarsi]

Possibly. I once mistook vengeance or revenge as "justice". But to be fair, I was a kid (either middle or elementary).

[@Robbinson98]

You know, proactive heroes can work, the problem is just that they fail to understand the difference between proactive and "proactive". A proactive hero does what they can to stop the problem and prevent it from happening again. A great example of this is Daredevil during the Brian Michael Bendis run, in which Wilson Fisk tries to put his empire back together, and rather than Matthew learn to late to do anything, Matt learns early on and beats Fisk to a bloody pulp, becomes a pseudo Kingpin, and tells the people of New York City to get out or change their lives. That's being proactive. A "proactive" hero just tortures villains for information and pretends to be proactive, even though they're still just reacting to events and following a trail like most comic book story arcs, just with asshole heroes and torture. They are not proactive, they are questionable heroes. Proactive heroes are Daredevil during the Brian Michael Bendis run, they are questionable heroes at best

[@carlrood4457]

The thing that's bothersome is that when a villain gets away after their plot is foiled, they rarely pursue them or investigate their whereabouts. They just wait until they come up with a new plan and come out of the shadows. That's where they could take proactive steps. I like to point out the first segment in the post-Invasion Manhunter series. Mark Shaw, working as a bounty hunter, he stakes out and captures the Penguin while in the bathtub. No fight, no umbrellas, no mess. Of course he's never shown to be that prepared every again because it would be boring to read.

[@chuckleshelicopterwigwamjo7315]

One's a video game reviewer. The other's a comic book reviewer. Together, they are justice.

[@guyincognito7509]

"I'm Linkara, welcome to the pain" should be the way you start every video from now on

[@death-king1834]

17:38 ''JUSTICE! Now with the fresh scent of pine.''

[@Someguywhocooks]

Instant justice! Just add water

[@sirpheredin1379]

Bane Knightfall- Call in the next 5 minutes and get another JUSTICE absolutely free!

[@TheLarkaanimation]

You'll also get a Ray Palmer plushie. Squeeze his hand for his catch-phrase "I'm Ray Palmer, WELCOME TO PAIN!!!"

[@henrygvidonas9573]

"I'm saying they hurt us, we hurt them back." You mean like some sort of team of... _Avengers_ ?

[@Morningstar91939]

Here’s a drinking game: every time the characters say “justice”, take a shot.

[@gennybaratta2460]

DP Productions do you want liver failure? Because that’s how you get liver failure

[@Pannopap]

I gave your video a like. I think that does it JUSTICE!!!!!!

[@theotherghostgirl337]

12:18 I like to think that Hal was so pissed off that he stormed off in the wrong direction

[@lightyearpig12]

It's like Beerus said, nobody preaching justice is ever a good guy.

[@dragonempress8367]

So the justice league is a lie?😭

[@infinityalbi9840]

​@@dragonempress8367 they're not preaching it exactly. It's just their name.

[@CarlSlime]

Cry For Justice just makes me want to see an ongoing series about the adventures of Congorilla and Mikaal

[@autobotproductions1244]

you know I just realized, the thinking of "stopping crimes before they happen" is exactly the thing SHIELD was trying to do in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. And that movie did a much better commentary on the idea than this comic. (granted SHIELD turned out be taken over by HYDRA at the time, but still)

[@Xehanort10]

"I'm Ray Palmer. Welcome to pain" is the best line in this because of how bad it is.

[@Magitek1112]

I'm pretty sure it's said somewhere that Lian's death was an editorial mandate and James Robinson was against it, but who knows?

[@jakebryant3445]

Lucky the Convergence event brought her back and showed that the original universe is still around.

[@spiderboy43]

I wonder if there was a porno called Gay for Justice. If there is, it's probably ten times better than this comic.

[@jakebryant3445]

If there is I'm sure the Cinema Snob shall review it.

[@yoshipopthelemur]

I’d fap to that

[@Dreigonix]

I’M RAPE ALMER. WELCOME TO PAIN. Okay, that was horrible. I apologize. >__

[@dnmstarsi]

@@Dreigonix Eh, it's fine. To be fair, Ray's attempt at torture kinda felt like rape in terms of pain. Heck, this comic does kind of rape the characters in some way.

[@ReallyCoolSite]

"Secret Six Doesn't SUCK!" I fully agreed. I miss that book to this day.

[@xgray2012]

Me too.

[@Fiery891]

What frustrate me about this comic is that there is a distinction between Justice and Vengeance. The statue of Justice, the blildfolded woman with the scales, is symbolism that you have to ignore your personal bias and look at the hard evidence. Vengeance means that you want to punish people because of what you percieve to be an injustice, while at the same time justifying up to and including murder, because "they had it coming." A true rolemodel, a true hero, would find alternative means to obtain justice, instead of lowering themselves to the criminal's level. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi.

[@jacktrippin7jack5]

Adrian Fält tell that to the families of murdered tortured stolen from starving abused and mistreated people at the hands of wealthy spoiled irresponsible privileged brutish cretan psychopaths that don't care about life liberty or the attainment of happiness except for their own circle of like minded people who commit the same atrocities go in front of the law and get off or aren't even held accountable for they're actions...yet make the laws, btw ghandi was a racist and pedophile

[@jantzenbruce2155]

What the hell are you talking about? The guy was referring to comics.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@jantzenbruce2155 well a good angle this comic could have tackled (if it was better written) could offer "Batman just putting the Joker in jail was never Justice, because he will just escape again and kill again", and it could offer good points in "Is Justice sometimes just a "Cathartic revenge in which you give people what you think they deserve" or Is Justice what's best for the society from an analitycal view, regardless of emotions or moral you apply". but then again thinking that just makes the comic worse for wasting that potential

[@222CBK222]

Time to read "Cry For Justice". Welcome to pain!

[@randomnessrules4971]

"The words don't have a translation, but their translation is justice." What?

[@Xehanort10]

Uh Cry For Justice. We know superheroes fight for justice. You don't need to hammer that in every few seconds.

[@Someguywhocooks]

They might as well change every dialogue with "JUSTICE"

[@ArchieRatsworth]

+Wirtamjie97 that'd be funny for about five minutes.

[@TheLarkaanimation]

More like "Murder for Justice" with the way Green Arrow and Green Lantern are doing things. And Ray Palmer.

[@edwardramos4591]

Seems like the true villain of pre-New 52 DC was not Darkseid or Alan Moore, it was Dan DiDio.

[@infinityalbi9840]

Wasn't he the guy who really REALLY disliked Stephanie Brown?

[@gamejtv]

Congorilla… wow. That's super clever. I like it.

[@modmaker7617]

Etymology Justice comes from "Justitia" which means "Administration of Law". A League is a type of organisation so my question is how to administer law without an organisation.

[@filozof90]

"I hate this comic more than any other comic I've reviewed!" Poor Linkara, you had no idea back then...

[@FridayInHalifax]

I am now trying desperately to imagine Brandon Routh saying "WELCOME TO PAIN" without Micky shouting "HAIRCUT" at him

[@kamilpuskarczyk4603]

Pain, courtesy of Ray Palmer

[@cashomnitrix]

What’s even funnier: even HE would find a way to make it work.

[@TempestXtreme]

I'm sorry, but I love that line, "Welcome to pain." It's gloriously stupid and perfect...for a cliché villain. What the hell, Ray?

[@pinionatedminion38]

Also, if I were Killer Moth, I'd say it was the Joker. They'd buy that (cause he's crazy) and J would probably take credit for it (because he find it funny. And he's crazy). I have no idea why people think torture is a magic lasso. Of course there going to lie to you. The person has no reason ignore the reasons why they were telling you before, plus they now REALLY dislike you.

[@thunderwolf2005]

the proactive superhero team.... Civil War II anyone?......i hate that book and we're only 2 issues in.

[@aros0018]

Honestly it is a big disappointment that the series isn't better. Using future vision to be proactive and stop crimes before they happen and waiting until someone actually commits a crime before you judge them as guilty and go after them are two very understandable points that would have heroes heavily debating with each other. The problem is that no one wants to be reasonable about their side. No one is willing to compromise even the slightest. Everyone is written as out of character and stupid because it is supposed to be a war between the heroes, even though there are other ways to cause drama with this premise without people being one-note jerks for the sake of the plot.

[@thunderwolf2005]

you're telling me man, practically every note of this event has me rolling my eyes. there's no reason for this so called 'war' its all just an excuse to kill off more characters, and have literally everyone act like a total ass for no reason. its not just that they're out of character anymore, it seems more and more that the heroes are just trigger happy, kill crazy, maniacs. i have to be honest as well, the premise, this whole thing with Ulysses and his visions, feels like the most forced conflict for me Marvel has had in a LONG time. if they wanted to do a Civil War thing, why didn't they go the route of the terrigan mists making mutants sterile and damaging to their bodies? we just had AvX not too long ago cover the importance of mutant survival and all the build up with Hope Summers (a character severely underutilized). i know that the X-Men vs Inhumans thing is still to come, but that would've been a much better civil war now than this nonsense. and also too that's something that the Avengers could very easily be divided over but nope, can't have the Avengers not take center stage and have this be about anyone besides them, heaven forbid, lets just do Marvel Civil War II: Minority Report instead. the big one for me though that made me just give up entirely was when SPOILER: Hawkeye killed Banner. what the actual hell was that? they've had him on their side for such a long time now, and other Hulks as well that pose just as much of a risk, but nope gotta kill Banner....unbelievable. it honestly feels as if sense Marvel's villains have been neutered to such a degree that, sense they can't kill the heroes, may as well let the heroes kill each other. i can't wait for this whole event to be over but i won't be reading anymore of it thats for sure.

[@alexpare2030]

yes but did anyone shout "JUSTICE"!?

[@thunderwolf2005]

lol, give it time. the event isn't over yet (although it sure is taking its own sweet time).

[@alexmansfield3268]

ThunderWolfVX from 2017 civil war 2 does not end well

[@ninjagregshow9423]

More like Cry for Revenge, that sounds closer to what these heroes want

[@whatiftherewasanun]

"JUSTICE!!!" -Daredevil

[@LaurianeG.]

You know, it's a huge coincidence that so many characters have a friend\loved one murdered and want justice at the same time, don't you think?

[@Merit2397]

Angry Joe: Oh my God!!! David Bomen from 2001 a Space Odyssey coming out of the portal: It's full of stars...

[@Phoebe5448]

Open the bay doors Sal...

[@noahmagana137]

Ten years of JUSTICE!

[@ShinoSarna]

Are you reading Cry for Justice? WELCOME TO PAIN!

[@DetectorCliche]

24:01 "We're on a mission from Justice." Blues Brothers 1980

[@LicencetoMeme]

"They taugh themself to be justice. They didn't know anything but whining."

[@moonraven6145]

Christ, they say Justice more than Zamasu in Dragonball Super

[@Spike-Prime]

Wait, I just realised... This review came out in Jan 2011, before the New 52 even started? And Cry for Justice came out in April 2010. This review's probably the most timely one Linkara ever did (except TAIS), not even a year between release and review. No wonder he's so passionately pissed, with how recent the story was. I'm so glad for Convergence restoring Lian to life, this book doesn't bring the same hateful loathing now we know its longest-reaching and dumbest aspect is no longer a factor.

[@davidspring4003]

If I was chief editor of a comic book, I might make the writers write something they didn't want to just to make them write outside of their comfort zone before they wrote what they were actually being paid to write, but I'd never publish it unless they came up with something they were very proud of and thought was something people would want to read. But I wouldn't do an editorially mandated story EVER.

[@alexanderfix3629]

I wonder what it says about the state of the comic book industry when some random fan on the internet seems more capable of editing a book than the professionals.

[@davidspring4003]

Alexander Fix and, heck, I'm not even that big a fan of comic books.

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

There needs to be editorially mandated comics or comics would die even faster when writers would not write about what sells.

[@davidspring4003]

@@sarasamaletdin4574 HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh, wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder. Editorially mandated comics always turn out to be the worst ones. Always. Sure, you can get word from the editors you can't do things a certain way because of continuity or whatever, but that right there is part of their job. It is NOT their job to say "write a story where X happens."

[@davidspring4003]

Hence why I wouldn't actually publish any of the books I "mandated" unless the writer begged me to

[@Merit2397]

Now this (in my opinion) is where things get good. I've always felt like everything from 2011 onwards felt like a soft reboot of AT4W and everything before was Linkara trying to find his footing. The production felt cleaner, the storylines were more concise, and alot tighter in the writing department, and even the reviews felt more consistent in terms of pace. While the show would continue to grow and change, I will always remember THIS video as the first true step in the right direction.

[@monroeriddell5822]

I'll be honest, I didnt read the title as "GAY for justice" I read it as "CAY for justice" which makes it more hilarious as it makes me think the comic's about the Justice League fighting over a private island.

[@TevyaSmolka]

I wonder what’s worse cry for Justice or heroes in crisis because both stories have the same problem killing off a favorite character for no damn reason just for shock values

[@goldenstatewarriors9418]

Heroes in Crisis because of what they did to Wally West.

[@TevyaSmolka]

@@goldenstatewarriors9418 true heroes in crisis is much worse because it destroyed Wally west flash character for garbage the same way this story ruined Roy Harper arsenal

[@svartfrasr9755]

SSSHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! - The cry of Justice

[@Cdr2002]

The “word on the street” thing being treated as news is like a microcosm of the book’s entire problem: it treats superheores going after villains to capture them and bring them to Justice as a new thing when it’s a basic tenant of the genre

[@moonraven6145]

JUSTICE! JUSTICE? Justice stay's crunchy even in Milk!

[@caseyjarmes]

You know what pisses me off about this book? Kongorilla and Freedom Beast aren’t friends. They interacted only once before this book. And Congorilla certainly didn’t mentor Freedom Beast like this book says. It’s like if they killed off Beast Boy to make Batman sad and then Batman cried because Garfield was the closet thing he ever had to a son. As a fan of Freedom Beast from his spectacular appearance in Animal Man, this comic is beyond insulting. At least Lian’s death was done to affect a character she actually had a bond with

[@Rabbitlord108]

It would also be weird if B'Wanna Beast perished. And Congorilla referenced issue 2 of DC Challenge.

[@15oClock]

This is the first result when I typed in "cry for justice". Interesting.

[@TevyaSmolka]

This entire story is so reminding me of civil war 2 right now and that's not a good sign

[@theshipper5797]

Ya know whats funny? Hal getting this riled up for justice? It's similar to what Sinestro would do. Think about it, he's all about putting fear into others because he feels his way can properly help the universe and sees his method as the one to use. And yet here we have Hal, his enemy, going with the very thing he's fought Sinestro against. You know, a version of Hal who is leaning more towards the thinking of a yellow lantern? Like in the Injustice series.

[@christopherb501]

As Linkara pointed out when he reviewed Alk-Star Crazy Steve and Dick Grayson, Age Twelve #9.

[@JaelinBezel]

Hey you guys remember Nostalgia Critic's 90's anti-hero "Justice" joke from his Daredevil movie review? Just something I thought of suddenly.

[@jameshowlett5106]

"No one's gay for justice..." - Hans Moleman

[@smittythetaxcollector2239]

Yeah, I’m sure the rooftops of Gotham are waaaaay too cold for Green Lantern, the guy who causally hangs out in the vacuum of space.

[@badbeardbill9956]

Well... well... space isn't really cold... indeed you can't assign a temperature to vacuum. And heat transfer would have to be radiative which is really slow. Of the particles in space, they can often be quite hot themselves but they're so low density that very little heat transfer occurs.

[@smittythetaxcollector2239]

@@badbeardbill9956 you learn something everyday

[@paulvillerius848]

When you skip forward in the video, and the theme song sounds like this: "Ah! Ah! Ah! AHHHHHHHHH!"

[@Fluffkitscripts]

…scarecrow? The one guy who carries around Hal’s weakness 24/7?! Yeah, bullshit. This comic gets funnier if you imagine that the whole time Hal’s giving his inane rant, Batman’s just offscreen typing away on a computer. After Hal storms off, he turns around and announces he found all the villains.

[@Archon3960]

You know what? I think that this whole "Green Lantern wants justice" could've been used with Damian Wayne, who'd want to retaliate against the League of Villains to avenge his "dead" father Batman. Fits him better, same message. And yes, this was kinda used in Injustice. :/

[@tyrxian6452]

Damian wasn't around back then I don't think :/ But that's a pretty good idea nonetheless

[@thoughtfulpug1333]

"I'm saying they hurt us, we hurt them back" But they have not hurt you yet! WTF is that line? Seriously, if this ever gets an adaptation, the twist of the story should be that Hal Jordan was secretly Dan Didio this entire fucking time. Infinitely better than "I'mb so smert I kill baby".

[@seand7042]

Ah they days Before Holy Terror...I highly doubt he still hates this the most

[@lazorize]

Since when was Hal Jordan so edgy?

[@femoman]

Since somebody who has no idea how to write him, wrote him.

[@jakebryant3445]

This isn't the first time he's been edgy

[@alucardyoici]

+lazorize didn't he massacred the whole green lantern corp once

[@brandonlyon730]

Wasn't he possessed by Parallax though

[@alucardyoici]

Brandon Lyon retrospectively, although why parralax, embodiment of fear, possessed him after he was angry that the guardians would not let him repairs his hometown is quite convenient

[@tjjordan4207]

My biggest question is what the hell happened in that villain hideout the Green Team attacked? Seriously, make a single issue on that! I would buy it the moment of its release!

[@alexandergonyea4642]

Every time I rewatch this review I purposefully wait to skip the intro just so I can listen to Joe yell "God! Dammit Montezuma!"

[@hotarushinpei4966]

Holy Terror: Hold my Bloodjuice.

[@vocalcalibration8033]

The entire concept of "proactive" super heroes is just baffling... for basically the reasons you brought up. How can you be proactive against that which has yet to happen? How about Police, should they just start attacking random people on the street because they might be rapists and murderers? No, they have to react to crimes committed!

[@vocalcalibration8033]

On a side note, as immature as it is, "Gay For Justice" still makes me laugh.

[@alucardyoici]

+VocalCalibration Yes but here is the thing about superhero comic: If Metallo is not in prison, Metropolis should be on an extensive manhunt, no excuse, no he hasn't committed a crime yet. we are talking borderline animals on a rampage that happens regularly and heroes let it slide to a point it's ridiculous. Supervillain should be track down when escaped, put in the phantom zone and have half the justice league being dedicated to prison staff. Take any villains in comics nowadays and you realize that they are so well established that it's not waiting for them to make a crime situation, it's dealing with evaded inmates and galactic threats that people are aware of and decides to just push back instead of stopping them.

[@vocalcalibration8033]

***** Alright alright fair enough, under those circumstances simply waiting to react to a crime is foolish. However in a book like Youngblood (When it started) they're a new team, with few, if any established enemies, either for the reader or the characters themselves, so being proactive is kind of of non-sensical. Also, like Police Officers super heroes have lives to live as well, and can't be expected to spend every waking moment hunting down every psychopath who may or may not even be in the country still, and who could be pretty much anywhere. Being a proactive and reactive hero is entirely dependent on the circumstances.

[@alucardyoici]

VocalCalibration yes but Youngblood doubled as government task force so even then it makes sense for them to hunt down criminals if the ministry of defense asks. It's just silly when superheroes fight criminals they know police can't handle but they have no problem letting them having to restrain them right after, because apparently keeping them in one place 24/7 is the easy part.. And sure tracking down is not a one man's job but they have a league with a satellite and two or three telepath to spare if they want to find monsters and criminals on the run.

[@vocalcalibration8033]

***** Ah yes, but then they'd have to write sense into the world of super heroes, and I mean... come on, that's just silly.

[@amethyst_dawn]

"Yeah, well, I know this is Gotham, where it's law apparently that people conduct every important conversation on a rooftop, but is there a reason we couldn't have just met in your office?" Okay, that was pretty funny. Just goes to show you that even the deepest piles of crap still have bits of gold.

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

Would have been a great twist if Prometheus was actually sending out a subtle mind control wave across the world that latched on to any superhero wanting vengence. That way hals line near the end could have been some subtle forshadowing.

[@willowwisp2981]

Does it amuse anyone else for Hal Jordan to pull a Sinestro?

[@matthewjarek3026]

Robinson actually compared Cry for Justice’s premise of the JLA stopping crimes before they happen to the FBI hunting down criminals on their Most Wanted list (FBI: Most Wanted, if you want some sort of idea of it). I guess the premise was that they would be going after supervillains who were still at large, escaped from prison, or presumably about to commit a crime. Sounds like a decent premise at first, but superheroes have been doing that for years. For instance, whenever there is a big supervillain prison break, superheroes team up to catch them and put them back in prison. Also, in order to get on the Most Wanted list, you have to commit a crime, evade capture for several years, stay hidden, and not commit any more crimes so as not to bring attention to yourself. I can sort of see a comparison, but in the first issue, Hal and Ollie make an overdramatic speech about stopping villains before they commit crimes... and that’s it. They don’t go into any real detail about how things are going to change and as we see in this review... they don’t. The heroes are still responding to crimes or failing to stop them from being committed, so we can’t sympathize with their mission because it doesn’t work. And to make things worse, in one of the final issues, Green Arrow explains that it does work because him and Green Lantern have been stopping criminals for weeks (because apparently between leaving the JLA and going after Prometheus there was a time jump that was never ever eluded to until then), but we don’t actually see any of it so we’re still not convinced it does work. And doesn’t the JLA go back to normal after this? My point is, if you are going to set up a new status quo, you have to go into detail about why it is different from the old status quo instead of just saying, “Things are going to be different now” or “Things are different now” or “This is better”. It’s not.

[@SeekerLancer]

Every great comic book writer has their name on something that's complete shit. Sometimes it's due to editorial interference or deadline troubles and sometimes they just strike out and make something that sucks. Also why do writers always bring up this "proactive super hero team" crap like they're the first ones who ever thought of it even though it's been done to death and it always fails?

[@ChefMattReviews]

Ah yes. The halcyon days before Linkara saw the horror that was Holy Terror. This comic probably looks like a masterwork in comparison

[@Akatsukileader9]

The art style IS gorgeous, though.

[@Tareltonlives]

Well, there's very little justice in this book, but there is a lot of pain.

[@redcoonie5114]

Perfect timing! I found this 1 day before its 1 year anniversary

[@DanielDAdkins]

Ah, the video that got me into one of my favorite comic series, Starman. Even though now trying to find Starman Omnibus Vol. 3 is a pain in the ass.

[@Starteller794]

I think I understand what the writer was trying to get across. He was trying to point out that people who try to "prevent crimes and immoral acts" before they happen end up becoming the villains. The idea behind this story is to point out just that, and we aren't supposed to be rooting for the heroes involved with the torture and disgusting acts. We are supposed to see just how wrong it is, and that the reality is that we can only react to crime, not prevent it. Otherwise we become the villains when we take away the rights of others. This is a lesson that is sorely needed in our American society right now as we face down discriminatory laws born of fear that are parading around disguised as "preventing crime" when there is no evidence to back the law's standings. The moral, the theme of the story itself is sound, and genius. It's execution though? Not so much. There had to be better ways for the message to be told without pulling some of the JLA through the mud and out of character. There had to be a way for the story to project it better and stronger. And the ending to it all was a mess and didn't really tie into the message at all, if my memory is correct. In fact it just gets lost in all the BS with Prometheus. Over-all it was a very poor attempt. The message just wasn't supported by everything else and the story became aimless and pointless towards the end.

[@SnowyWolborg]

Personally, I've never been a fan of the proactive crime fighting thing that superheroes have tried to do. It just doesn't really make sense to me. Mostly because, it tends to make them go in a direction that overstepps heir boundaries. Tony Stark and his being a "futurist" is one of the biggest reasons I feel this way. I think it is a bit too arrogant.

[@nikolasmokalis3425]

Starteller794 the press release by didio and Robinson read aloud before the actual review would argue against the claim

[@Starteller794]

Nikolas Mokalis And? That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be another motive, or another theme in there that they didn't talk about. Most works of fiction have more than just one theme. At the very least then, just like any fiction, you take what you want out of it despite what the author originally means. Thanks for restarting a month's old conversation. >_>

[@nikolasmokalis3425]

Starteller794 Sure you could, but if you're looking beyond the explicit interpretation intended by the author would be pretense. Didn't pay attention to the date, just the content of the comment. Feel free to let it die if you want

[@darthparallax5207]

press releases are chosen relatively carefully. which meant they thought people wanted or needed to hear that message. they were wrong. if they reserved their better opinions, this just makes them even more guilty.

[@paulmahoney7619]

A superhero team being proactive in the sense of both helping with the social issues that lead to crime, working to change laws that lead to discrimination or injustice, setting up effective ways to contain and respond to threats when they occur, or even seeking to stay a step ahead of villains so their schemes can be stopped in the early stages as opposed to leading to a climatic battle with the world hanging in the balance all could work as components of a story, like every issue has a side story at the end about the main heroes and/or supporting heroes working to change the world so they aren’t needed anymore. But that would explicitly require heroes showing empathy and humanity, and also require changes t the status quo, and many authors seem to have trouble with one or both of those things.