Are You Using Your Backpacking Stove Correctly?

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[@JustinOutdoors]

Check out PackWizard Here! www.PackWizard.com 👇 GEAR FROM THE VIDEO 👇 BRS Stove: geni.us/BRS3000t Pocket Rocket 2 Stove: geni.us/PocketRocket2 Soto Windmaster Stove: geni.us/Windmaster Full Methods: docs.google.com/document/d/1FhlxOUSQlLjKQ1-asLePQTjys6Y9ipes7HrVMpAQldI/edit?usp=sharing

[@mtadams2009]

If you have the time, The Gear Skeptic goes into great detail on this topic. Nice review. Thanks

[@JustinOutdoors]

Don't worry, I watched all 100hrs of GearSkeptic's videos. haha. He provided a good base to build off of for my testing, but there were things I wanted to improve. My goal is to also understand how the system work in the controlled environment I have created so I can then test every stove I can get access to.

[@neonsamurai1348]

The biggest one by far out in the field is wind, nothing will kill efficiency faster than wind blowing between the pot and the burner.

[@SuperdutyExplorer]

Crazy the difference having a wind block around the flame/base of the pot makes!

[@thomasmusso1147]

Absolutely! Air movement is a MAJOR influencer.

[@dayoltay]

💯

[@pimacanyon6208]

I always carry a windscreen made out of two layers of aluminum foil. It's large enough to wrap about 3/4 way around the stove and pot. I want it open a little on one side because if you completely enclose the cannister with a windscreen, you risk the cannister heating up and possibly even exploding!

[@LuckyTown77]

Outside with flame shield, yet no lid, venturi effect will reduce efficiency.

[@FreyGrimrod]

Gear Skeptic has a great series on this topic... And I now see that reply by someone else and your response.

[@sarahfarrell7957]

Wow! I never thought about pot diameter saving fuel. Very helpful! Thank you for the research 🙌

[@wanderworm]

The Gear Skeptic channel goes into great depth about this

[@pimacanyon6208]

yes, I didn't think much about it either. I always use a wider pot because I'm cooking for two. But when you do think about it, it makes sense. Smaller diameter pot allows hear from the stove to bleed up and and around the pot instead of heating the bottom of the pot as it would with a larger diameter pot.

[@peterjohnson6273]

I like these tests of yours, Justine. Thanks. Something that's rarely talked about regardings stoves: Remember when your science teacher told you the hottest part of the flame is at the top. The height of pot bottom over the flame makes a big difference. I determine the best height when fine tuning the alcohol stoves I make such that I'm getting 40+ degrees C/minute temperature increases.

[@TheWadesauce]

Please, please keep making videos like this. I would love more semiscientific testing like this, it's way more informative and interesting than some other KZbinr doing yet another gear roundup

[@JustinOutdoors]

Sounds good! My direction for 2025 is doing "lab" testing videos like this and test trips in order to assess gear and feed into my gear recommendation videos.

[@TheWadesauce]

@JustinOutdoors it's great, it gives us practical information to use when choosing and using gear and we appreciate it

[@baroque9983]

Also recommend to have replications. The data is only anecdotal if there are no reps. For example: How do we know that one BRS stove is representative of the other six on the shelf? What is the variability between BRS stoves? We also know that individual fuel cans vary in the amount of fuel, pressure, and also hydrocarbon type mix from can to can from even the same brand. So if you show that X stove is better using Y can of fuel, that cannot say that the next X stove and can of fuel wouldn’t give completely different results.

[@МихаилРусин-ы1о]

@baroque9983 while I totally agree, that good theories are based on good statistics. Yet who is going to pay for that luxury? A good sampling set is 30. Who will buy 30 stoves of every type and than repeat every test 30 times again?

[@JustinOutdoors]

@@baroque9983 I think that will need to be a community effort. haha

[@bihlygoat]

Excellent info! Looks like you had a good setup to minimize variation. I, like others, was surprised at how little difference the lid makes. Now I don’t feel as bad about “peeking” to see how my boil is coming 😊.

[@romererunamerika9437]

I like the wider pot for the ability to cook vs just boil water. ie knorrs sides, ramen etc... also easier to eat out of shallow pot as well as better fuel efficiency. I like the regulated stoves for cold and altitude usage! I like my microwave and stove top for cooking at home. LOL good review thanks for the hard work.

[@VinceLoschiavo]

I suspected the wider pot size increased heat transfer from the flame to the water, but I would have been wrong about Lid vs no-Lid (but that makes sense regarding longer cook/boil times)! Great video! Thanks.

[@DerekPoshtar]

Thanks for confirming these ideas. Nice to know that my wild theories and observations on stove efficiencies were actually true!

[@jeffreycarman2185]

I like to geek out on this kind of thing, but the main takeaway from every test I’ve seen like this is the differences (for most use cases) are so minimal to render the weight or fuel savings irrelevant and inapplicable in all but the most controlled scenarios.

[@happyfuntimereviews5600]

I have always started on full blast, then backed it off about 20%. Its always seemed to me that you are wasting fuel running it wide open. Now i see that your results support that theory. Thanks for the confirmation Justin!

[@coachhannah2403]

And I run my BRS on minimum setting that maintains the flame.

[@alpineearth]

Great video Justin. Very impressive! Love that your stove tests took into account the fuel left in the bottle. My video added wind and the windmaster seemed to be the most fuel efficient in windy conditions. The BRS is still my favourite stove otherwise.

[@johnshellenberg1383]

My go-to group cooking set up is the MSR Wind Pro with the Primus 2.3L heat exchanger pot. The pot sits nicely on the stove, and thanks to being a remote-canister stove, you can use a standard MSR windscreen. This is not a lightweight rig by any means, but can boil water for groups of 3-4 people handily, so considering that you have one cooking system for 3-4 people, the per person weight is low. The Primus set comes with a heat-exchanger pot and a standard pot, so I did a bunch of tests, and found the pot cut fuel consumption by almost 25% - pretty significant.

[@Andy-Mesa]

I was going to knock you for doing similar but less thorough tests as Gear Skeptic, except that you did one test that I knocked him for not doing, which is testing canisters at different pressures (which I believed favored the BRS over the Windmaster). The results were interesting and I'm glad you put that out there. I still think all of these tests should be taken with a grain of salt since real world conditions (temp, altitude, wind) can drastically change the results, but it's still worth knowing about. Also, one thing learned from Gear Skeptic's videos is that turning the stove full blast only hurts with regular pots, due to flame escape, but is just as efficient for HX pots. HX pots are also ideal if you're wanting to squeeze more life out of a canister, especially in wind, with his latest videos showing a 2x increase in efficiency. I'm sticking with my Petrel + Windmaster combo when I take a stove at all.

[@JustinOutdoors]

100% these tests should be taken in context. They aren't to determine is X stove better than Y stove but to understand how different factors affect stove performance. My overall goal is to get as thorough an understanding of the variables before completing standardized tests for every stove I can get my hands on. P.S. I don't necessarily think my tests are less thorough compared to gear skeptic's. My analysis is less involved, but I think my methods are as, if not more, thorough than his.

[@Andy-Mesa]

@@JustinOutdoors I mean to say he did a lot more tests with a lot more combinations. Your methods seem sound.

[@JustinOutdoors]

@Andy-Mesa ah. Totally! I think he did like 6 different pot diameters for his testing for several different stove types. That's a lot of "boils"!

[@xungnham1388]

High efficiency pots work by increasing the surface area exposed to the flame. That surface area works both ways. Meaning, unless you're just boiling water to dump into another container, the hot water will cool down a lot faster if you're eating/steeping in the pot. A bowl of ramen will be a lot colder at the end of your meal than if eating out of a regular pot.

[@BitcoinSatoshiVision]

incredible video quality and attention to details!

[@SupermanJimbo]

Lid is going to make a difference outside where there is always some wind or a colder ambient temp.

[@CombatBanana]

Make a lid from aluminum and it weighs almost nothing. Wind makes a lid more important. Gear Skeptic has made similar videos to this that go into much more detail. But I'm not sure he has tried different fullnesses for canisters.

[@JustinOutdoors]

Which is crazy to me because it has such a large impact on stove performance (for non-regulated stoves) and could be impacting his testing.

[@mikescheme]

Awesome tests! Intuitively the results make sense, but great to see the numbers.

[@davidcooper8390]

Such a nerdy video.......AND I loved it, LOL

[@LostCozzz777]

Luv ur channel... luv pack wizard... really appreciate all ur hard work dude... thk u so much for all the great info, resources and content!

[@FlatCatGear]

There seems to be some inconsistencies in your number that could use elaborations. With respect to the BRS in Test 1 & 2 (same pot diameter): Test 1 time to boil 203 s and fuel consumption 10.2 g. However, in test 2 you only took it to 80 C and the time to reach temp was about the same as the boil time (190 s) but the fuel consumption was higher at 11.2 g. This does not make sense. With respect to the Pocket Rocket: test 1 & 2. Test 1 fuel consumption was 9.5 g yet only heating to 80 C required 12 g. This also does not make sense. Please elaborate.

[@JustinOutdoors]

For all the tests, "boil time" involved heating the water to 80C. Any difference in boil time or fuel consumption is likely due to differences in pressure within the canisters. The pot diameter/lid tests used 450g canisters while the "fuel level" tests used 110g canisters. For both the PR2 and BRS, the pressure inside the canister plays affects both fuel consumption and boil time while it doesn't affect the regulated Windmaster as much.

[@FlatCatGear]

@@JustinOutdoors So, Test #1 and Test #2 cannot be compared: fair, I guess. It might be worthwhile to repeat test #2 with a large diameter pot to reduce the non-linearity due to influence of the small 95 mm pot. As a side note, the Low Down does add an addition flow resistance which could impact the high flowrate measurements. It might be worthwhile comparing it to a stove connected directly to a canister. When I have done that, the BRS fuel consumption can go sky high on a new canister. My 2 cents.

[@JustinOutdoors]

@@FlatCatGear I'm not even sure individual runs within tests should be compared. The pressure inside of the canister plays such a big roll in unregulated stoves. One of my goals with these tests is to isolate the external variables so that I can then start understanding the stove design variables that affect performance (in addition to regulators). The biggest question mark I am dealing with is how to isolate the fuel can pressure variable. Interestingly, I ended up with different results for the lowdown. I did tests with all three stoves using a lowdown and not using one and saw minimal differences in "boil" time.

[@FlatCatGear]

​@@JustinOutdoors @JustinOutdoors - When I test, I use the big 16 oz canister and mount the stove directly to the canister. I don't use low, medium and high, I chart the data as time as the independent variable and fuel usage as the dependent variable. I usually test the high burn rates first. As I get to know the stove, I can use visual and sound clues to make the adjustments. With unregulated stoves, I have found that a boil time of 4-6 minutes tends to be the most fuel-efficient zone: I bring to a full boil 500 ml starting at 20 C. In my testing, the BRS has been the most non-linear; at full on it boils water in about 2 minutes uses north of 20 grams. My 2 cents.

[@KrizAkoni]

@@FlatCatGearI’m a fan of the 6 minute boil.

[@L4mTr4n]

Thank you for this insightful information!

[@jasonmiles8974]

Love this style of video!

[@billb5732]

1) The biggest opportunity for improvement is in the windscreens (NOT in HX pots -- they are a red herring). 2) Which KZbinr has boiled the most water? Jon Fong, Gear Skeptic, PaleoHikerMD, Mark Young, or Hiram Cook? 3) Who first used the LowDown for flow consistency? Was that you or Gear Skeptic? +1 for that innovation. It adds sanity to these tests.

[@notquiteultralight1701]

Not trying to troll here. I’m just saying that a windscreen has to be part of this analysis. Love your stuff sir. Take care.

[@kevinguthrie5495]

Surprised at your results about changes as the fuel can empties. Try getting the cans to a set temperature before starting each trial. At a given temp the vapor pressure of the gas is the same whether the can is full of liquid or there is only a drop left, but when you use it the temperature drops and so the pressure goes down.

[@andreasweber7828]

I noticed that my bigger 1L pot boils faster than my 500ml. Both pots are Evernew (1LPastaPot and 500ml ) both have a lid. The difference is even more obvious when I use my X-Boil alcohol stove, but that’s mainly because the stove has the right diameter for the bigger 1L pot. With gas the difference is almost 30 seconds when I boil 450 ml water with my Soto Windmaster

[@memathews]

That's interesting that the difference was so big as to be noticeable. Are you using Evernew titanium pots or anodized aluminum? The aluminum pots have better heat transfer properties than titanium at greater distances from the initial flame source, so I wonder if aluminum enhances the difference with the larger diameter pot.

[@Jay09889]

Yay science! Nice video man.

[@Triycyan]

Gear sceptic lite.

[@romneymathewson2253]

I love your test and your opinion on all the heat you use. I want to buy the Rockfront quilt because of your favorite gear video but they are sold out of my size 😢

[@amandagroszkruger4956]

Your mannequin is so confident in the testing that he didn’t even bother to put on pants. 😂

[@timowillman2285]

Nice info, What Winter gas stove you recommended max -10 c hikes? I have now Windmaster only. Like Msr Windpro 2 or Mapple leaf Blade 2? Thank you for help

[@ryanhooper4660]

Interesting results that make sense when considering how much heat you can get a pot to absorb. Curious if you plan to repeat these tests several times to verify the results?

[@coachhannah2403]

Windscreen/stove chimney!

[@memathews]

Nice testing and I appreciate your choices versus other testers. It would be interesting to see if there are differences in pot materials at similar diameters. We know that aluminum is a much better at heat absorption and diffusion than either stainless steel or titanium, it might even turnout that aluminum has enough positives that it matches/beats HX pots at efficiency as well as weight.

[@FlatCatGear]

Looked at PackWizard as you suggested with respect to Petrel Pot compatability (G3). Pocket Rocket Deluxe/2 and Greenpeak II are not compatable with this pot. I own all of that gear and have tested it out. The GreenPeak II has rivet that will not fit in the slots and Fire Maple even says so on their website. The MSR stoves have an offset angle: to fit, they have to be jammed into the slots creating an unsafe assemble. My 2 cents.

[@JustinOutdoors]

I don't know what to tell you, I just put the Greenpeak II on it as well as the PRD and PR2. Sure, it's not butter smooth putting the pot on the MSR stoves. I personally wouldn't consider it unsafe but everyone's risk tolerance is different.

[@FlatCatGear]

@@JustinOutdoors Well, I own several G3s and there is a lot of manufacturing variation in the fins. Seeing comments online, maybe 25% of the people (spitballing a bit) report problems with the fit. Many have filed open the slots for a better fit. While it may seem hit or miss, you are listing it on your link as being compatable and this may lead to dissatisfation and questioning of the results and validity of the information. With respect to the GreenPeak II even Fire Maple does not recommned it for the G3. Your site, your call. My 2 cents.

[@Iron-Outdoor]

great! thanks for sharing!

[@matiashall1758]

I think as you say colder temps but also wind would affect the efficacy of the lid. Would love to see a test with a fan

[@tippin.turtle]

A signal horn canister for fuel? Where did you get that idea?

[@KrizAkoni]

I’ve been doing that for years - there was a long thread on Backpacking Light…

[@JustinOutdoors]

Yup. It was on BPL

[@deant.1266]

As always, thanks for the great information. On a side note, where can someone get the sweet hat you are wearing?

[@NathanHassall]

This is fascinating information...excellent experiment work here!

[@Colby168]

Answering questions we all contemplate. Thank you!

[@danharrison5285]

Justin, remind me about the smaller canister with the brs stove at the 15 second mark early in the video. Where did you get that? What is it? I remember seeing that in one of your previous videos but cannot remember the details. Better yet, reference the other video, and I will go watch it again! More views!

[@nickwaah2702]

Signal horn klaxon air horn

[@AwkwardQuokka]

In an earlier video I suggested a video showing which stoves are compatible with the Fire Maple pot. However, I'm now thinking just having a stove entry in Pack Wizad indicating compatibility would be easier and just as good.

[@JustinOutdoors]

There a is filter on PW for it! I tested all the stoves on PackWizard for Petrel pot compatibility.

[@AwkwardQuokka]

@@JustinOutdoors awesome!!!

[@sawyerhaupt]

I would really have liked to see the msr pocket rocket deluxe matches up in this test. Regulator is insane in my testing from all msr stoves. It might take longer to boil but its efficiency is insane from my testing. I easily take a 4oz canister on a 3 season trip for five days.

[@blzahz7633]

Can you test between titanium heat exchanger pot and a normal titanium pot? Though I bet there are some people on YT who have done the tests already

[@woodchip2782]

I use alcohol stoves. I like the silence of them. I can’t stand canister stoves. They’re noisy and tippy, especially on unlevelled surface and windy days. How many coffees did you drink?

[@asmith7876]

After decades of backpacking I tried the alcohol stove....oh the blessed silence! Not a sound while I wait for my coffee...totally sold on it. Depending on the trip I'll bring both, but yeah, love the alcohol burner.

[@IanTheOutdoorGuy]

I picked up a BRS3000 it's very good

[@Jeff13mer]

And how are they against winds??

[@rodnielson3056]

how much water were you boiling?

[@russelllang2910]

Since I don't live in the USA, I'd prefer stove heat output to be given in kW, not in BTU/hr. You could calculate the efficiency of each stove/pot combination, using as input as the fuel's potential energy (knowing the fuel mix and mass of fuel used), and the output being the energy transferred to the water (4.184 Joules per gram of water per degC change).

[@Farbulus]

Is your mic inside your shirt?

[@DarrenYee]

Who's your new assist, Seems like they could be a little drafty down below. lol

[@JustinOutdoors]

He needs name still!

[@dougmorse]

Heat exchangers?!?!

[@SuperdutyExplorer]

On my last trip I learned its better to boil 1.3-1.5 L vs 2.0-2.1L 😂😂 was nice to fill 2 water bottles at once but also took alot longer/more fuel the first half of the trip!!! -15°C and colder melting snow for water. Useing a white gas MSR Xkg n 2.2L pot.

[@zander9418]

Nice video the analytic content is very interesting

[@bvan1970]

Cool info, but the delivery was way too fast and I’m sure I missed all the good data. Thank you for the summaries of the tests. That was helpful.

[@phillipp1399]

KZbin allows you to configure the speed of playback. I watch on 2x and I thought it was great. You might try .75 or .5

[@stevennagley3407]

Should perform all the test again, while the canister is upside down

[@Gamerhog2022]

Key take away from this, is for you to go use your gear outside because nobody backpacks in a garage.

[@dalehilliard5535]

did I Misunderstand something.? ..Did you say you only got twelve boils out of a 110 gram canister ?..i Realize it can vary with conditions , but that seems kind of low..

[@rya7642]

instructions unclear, burnt house down

[@martymorissette]

what's up with the guy behind you with no pants.....🤔

[@JustinOutdoors]

No pants were worn in the making of this video.

[@Mikey2tt]

Too much info! Great vid, by the way!

[@martymorissette]

@ ah! that explains it! well done brother!

[@МихаилРусин-ы1о]

Could you please explain, why WM in all of your tests shows less fuel consumption, yet you say that you have 1 additional boil out of BRS. Where is the magic? Have you found a gas fairy? :)

[@JustinOutdoors]

Look at the fuel consumption vs % fuel remaining graph. You can see the lines cross at just before 50% fuel remaining. After that point, the BRS and PR2 both use less fuel per "boil" than the Windmaster.

[@iamastig]

@@JustinOutdoors Assuming there's no wind.

[@JustinOutdoors]

@@iamastig and many many others variables

[@МихаилРусин-ы1о]

@JustinOutdoors yes, would be interesting to see the tests outside.

[@JustinOutdoors]

@@МихаилРусин-ы1о The point of experiments like this is to isolate variables to get a better understanding of the systems. It is VERY difficult to gain any understanding when you throw dozens of uncontrolled variables at the system.

[@KrizAkoni]

Low and slow - get to 6 gram boils…

[@andymytys]

Who the hell cares about boil times? I boil two cups of 45 F water in the WindMaster in a minimum flame using ti/aluminum pots in 3.5 minutes, using 7 grams of fuel. Why would I care to go faster if it meant using significantly more fuel?

[@davidherdman6181]

You’ve obviously put in a lot of work into this project. I usually really enjoy your videos but this one was delivered far too quickly. I couldn’t understand a thing. Perhaps for me, a 20-30min video with the same information would be more watchable.

[@jayfinch4174]

I usually pause the video, and think about the graph values, that helped me a lot here. Message for Justin : Many thanks, very usefull.

[@Obi-Wan_Pierogi]

No pink spork. Down voted. ;)

[@gman963]

Now do alcohol stoves. 😅

[@JustinOutdoors]

see ya in 20 years! ...once I get a boil going on the first test :P

[@daseishorn1863]

A reference to gear sceptic would be great!

[@JustinOutdoors]

Referencing what?

[@medimalismus]

There is a youtuber called gear sceptic

[@mattgarman2155]

Good Lord is he talking fast. Someone needs to run an experiment and post a video on how fast Justin talks when coked up versus not coked up.

[@TonyRueb]

seems like a copycat test of the gear skeptic

[@zander9418]

Linus tech tips hoodie ❤

[@JaniOllikainen]

Noticed same and searched has it already been mentioned :)

[@CarlosWilkie]

I use the jetboil flash. It works wonders for boiling water quickly :)😊

[@pauledwards499]

I can hardly understand a word, sorry

[@tanvach]

Don’t forget the inefficiencies from reboiling due to BRS stove wild flame heating up the handle and causing the pot to be dropped 😅

[@black.raven.adventures]

I would assume that real conditions with just a bit of wind would change your "no-lid" results quite a bit. There is a lid on my pots every time, even at home - always. There is only one planet, every kilowatthour counts! Also, I think you misunderstood youtube payment scheme: don't they value longer videos more, hence you don't need to rush trough the content like a tornado. Breeeaathhh! 😀

[@thomasmusso1147]

👍👍👍 .. and with some interesting results. Herewith some 'useless information' 🙄 .. repeat of the content or otherwise, to add .. * 'Boil Times' 🙄 .. 'how fast can a motor vehicle travel? Ans: Some, very fast, but all, at top speed, not as far as they could if driven sensibly. * 'Get the (rolling) Boil'. School Physics taught us about 'Latent Heat' and the additional energy that it took to convert liquid water into gas (steam) with no immediate increase in temperature. * A lid on a pot will result in a pressure increase inside the pot. Water takes longer to 'boil' aka 'gasify', the higher the ambient pressure. Just something to perhaps bear in mind. Also, energy / heat that does not directly transfer to the medium being heated is energy / fuel lost / wasted. Thus, simplistically, a lower gas flow (whether by lower canister pressure or judicious use of the fuel valve) resulting in lower BTU's, resulting in less heat / flame bypassing up the sides of the pot (and thus 'lost') will lead to improved fuel efficiency. This is also why larger base pots tend to be more fuel efficient. Me? I have long abandoned chasing after the 'how quick to boil' Holy Grail .. having decided that the extra minute or three is not a game changer and that lower heat settings give me better fuel efficiency and yes, I prefer to 'cook' on my stoves and not burn my food .. and not just boil water. A good share .. thanks.

[@thomaspratt9717]

Love your videos, but you need to slow down your talking - it's like you are in an incredible rush and trying to speak as fast as you possibly can. You almost sound like the incredibly fast-talking people at the ends of commercials who tell you all the legal stuff in as short a time as possible. I had to stop the video and replay portions of it several times to digest what you were saying. Relax and slow down. Chill, dude. I love the content, but slow down the speech a bit. Thanks.

[@ForestSpirits-yk7ts]

Just slow down the video play speed in settings.