K40 eBay Chinese CO2 Laser - Electrical Warning This Can Kill You!

[@Willam_J]

At 12:30 in your video, you mention that you're not an electrical professional. I am. I've been an Electronics Engineer (EE) for 38 years. I have worked with everything from millivolts to kilovolts and I can positively confirm everything you're saying. There are so many cheats, shortcuts and mistakes that electricians and homeowners make with home wiring that your home's ground system is nothing you should ever absolutely rely upon. (I could make a whole video about just that subject.) Ground these machines!!! Chinese manufacturers slap a "CE" rating sticker on their equipment in an effort to give you a warm feeling about what you are purchasing. That CE sticker means NOTHING. In my business, we say it stands for "Chinese Electrocution". To answer another person's question..... A GFCI outlet or breaker will not protect you. It would take paragraphs to explain why, but once the line current passes through a transformer, power supply or a high voltage flyback supply, the GFCI becomes useless. It's not a bad idea to use one, but it will not protect you in any way from the dangers presented in this video. I have one of these machines. It's the version with the analog meter. I've been making all sorts of modifications and improvements to it, as well. I've been enjoying all your videos and have subscribed to your channel. Keep up the great work!

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Many thanks for sharing your experience along with your comments on the GFCI. Also keep an eye out as I purchased yet another one (CO2 Laser) and moding it too so new ones will be coming out in October...

[@AUSXRP]

In Australia the earth wire is built into our plugs. Is this sufficent enough?

[@jbrondos]

I just got one of these engravers - and I didn't realize the precautions which should be taken. Would you mind sharing the "modifications and improvements" you have made? Do you have any other sources for more detailed information such as calibration and "air assists"?

[@Willam_J]

Jbrondos - There is a group on Facebook called "Chinese K40 Laser Group". There is a lot of useful information there and the people there are very friendly and knowledgeable. I would start there. They also have a 'Files' section with a lot of useful information. You're bound to have a lot of question, and perhaps some problems, and they can get it sorted out quickly. There are lots of mods, as well. It's a great resource. Hope that helps!

[@fierymongoose9945]

On the real CE logo, if you extend the C to a full circle, it should just touch the back of the E.

[@WarehouseHobbies]

Very good point and one to be taken serious. The most important thing to remember is that voltage drives current, and in the right environment it can take less than an amp of current to kill you, less than 100 mills. If the voltage is high enough to break down the resistance of your skin, you can be killed. What this man says about grounding is an assurance that If you have any fault the voltage will be directed to the least path of resistance, the grounded source (Earth). The best ground would be a brass/steel water pipe, or even driving a 6' ground rod outside of your shop and connecting the units casing right to it would be fine. In my factory we have all of our equipment grounded, and each bonded through a grounding rod as well. It is not a big deal to drill a 5/8" hole through the slab and pound in a rod. Another good factor of a grounding rod is we have had much less lightning strike issues over the years since we have done this. At one time we would take a near strike and our machine computers would be taken out due to the high static charge, this does not eliminate the threat, but we haven't had an issue since we put ground rods in place. Anyway I just want to point out that if anyone thinks they can not be killed with 12 volts they are sadly mistaken, the right conditions and enough potential current, and that's all she wrote.

[@johnrex5342]

At about 10:42 you suggest 1064nm laser glasses. It is my understanding that these K40 lasers are at 10600nm. Shouldn’t the glasses be rated for this much longer wavelength?

[@paultakoy7091]

Great video. I am an EE and have been in the business for over 35 years. Your statements are spot on. Keep up the good work!

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Many thanks for the kind comments!

[@ECMVAQ137]

I was hit by spark plug voltage once and that was scary! This video has got my attention, I am getting a ground rod installed outside the window of my basement. It is now clear to me now "NO SHORT CUTS"!

So if I buy a new dedicated earthen ground rod I can't just put it anywhere, I have to find out where my house's existing earthen ground rod is, and then place the new one next to it so I can connect them via copper wire, so the ground's are equal, right?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

I would suggest checking your local electrical code first, as it is a good ideal to balance the the grounds so you don't have a differential in resistance...

[@BigPJB]

When I removed the power connection panel on my 50w laser to change the two pin pump and air sockets to three pin I discovered the earth connection on inlet mains wasn't making a connection. It was fixed by solder but actually was only the flux resin holding earth cable in place. Also the live "hot" wire broke off as soon as I removed the panel. Only the heat shrink had been holding the live in place. The soldering to all these connectors was shockingly poor. Took photos. Soon cleaned all connections and re soldered. Worth checking these connections if you're qualified to work with electrics or have them checked by someone who is. Great channel keep up the great work. Cheers

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Many thanks for the positive comments! Also for calling this out as I too have had several small issues as you mention and good for folks to be aware as they get these thinking they came from Best Buy and they are all UL safe. Thanks again for sharing!

[@parkstraat9]

Is this the same for European devices? Good ground in the 220V power wires. I Grounded metal housing of the machine to the power input ground.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Yes... Electrically and resistance work the same across the entire universe. As covered in the video and in the thread of the video, your plugs ground is a "safety" ground it is NOT intended for sustained discharge which the k40 produced and this is why the manual even predominately in Mandarin, clearly states the machine MUST be grounded to a separate earthen ground.

[@JustinTyme1966]

Thank you very much for making this video. My shop is in my basement. My laser comes today and with all of the research that I've done I now know that THE VERY FIRST THING that I will be doing when I start to it setup is figuring the best grounding. I have been grounding all of my equipment to the my water lines that run over head with a thick gauged wire(12g romax) and a stainless steel hose clamp...its that sufficient?

[@ClintLeClairMD]

U prevented an accident here. I am now having a grounding bar installed as I type this (had a minor zap when flipping the switch while ungrounded when it first came out of the box). Thank you.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Your welcome and the reason I made the video :-)

[@cyberlizardcouk]

do American plugs have not have earthing pin in their sockets like we do in the UK. UK wiring plugs have live-neutral-earth.

[@SpaceMidget]

Thanks for this. Sorry for the dumb question, but are you saying the metal case is always having the laser voltage dumped into it or only if there's a fault in the wiring?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Not a dumb question and the answer is "yes" (so long of course as the laser tube is energized) the cathode of laser tube is connected directly the metal chassis of the laser and it is intentionally designed this way. This is the reason an earthen ground is so important (as called for in the instructions).

[@stevenanderson7046]

I haven't looked at the wiring yet, but am I correct that you opened the case and disconnected the cathode from the power supply return? ie. under normal condition that 15kV returns to the power supply but when you disconnect that return wire (or it breaks off while getting transported etc), the only place to discharge is the ground?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Yes it is the cathode from the laser tube connects directly the metal case...

[@stevenanderson7046]

@@DIY3DTECHcom yeah but did you disconnect the cathode from the power supply return?

[@stevenanderson7046]

Ok disregard my comment about disconnecting a wire, I see some schematics on the internet. That is insane to me to have the cathode go to the chassis and not the power supply return. Yes the return is also connected to the chassis but that's analogous to a 120v appliance using ground instead of neutral. It should only return thru ground/chassis in a fault condition

[@seanmcdonald656]

Great video! One thing you should mention is probably have it plugged into a GFI plug just because of water and electricity usually don't mix as well as it usually should trip if you don't have a proper grounded summer to touch it

[@futhaiter366]

Thats why we here in europe have ground within the power connector (that 3rd pin). In general: the electrical safety in the us is not existing. Simply look to your power cord connectors and the connectors at the wall. Easily you can touch the pin while the cord is connected. Thats not possible here in germany.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

So do we in the states, however if a device is "double" insulated and polarized it doesn't require a "ground". However the intent of this was not (IMHO) to place it into water!

[@ronaldnystrom5493]

I'm a ham, my radios and antenna system is tied into the house ground and radio room grounds everything is bonded together and the ground rods use 8 ga solid wire, all 23 ground rods, they old saying is that when you go broke putting in grounds you almost have enough.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

+Ronald Nystrom love the saying! Your right too!

[@madarakis]

If I understand right ... These machines need an earth ground. If I connect a wire to my water pipes how can I check if this kind of ground works? Also what kind of cable can I use? If I don't have an earth ground connected but only the house ground will the machine work?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Hooking to water pipes is not a good idea as you are not assured an earthen ground, so you should (per manufacturer's recommendations also) install a dedicated grounding rod. Also yes you can hook to your homes ground and it will work, however risk the current energizing all of the gound outlets of your home which is a bad thing. Again this is why the manufacture states this requires dedicated ground as this is NOT a safety ground, the laser tube actually dumps its current here from the cathode...

[@brianvanh]

Thanks for the video. I am on the verge of buying one of these units, and have a question for you. I'll be running this in my garage where I can easily vent the unit. Could I buy a grounding rod (from Amazon), install it outside my garage, and just run a wire out to that? I assume that that would be adequate? Also, how do you attach the ground to your machine?

[@davidmiller5832]

You most likely already have an earth ground spike at your house. Look for it close to your service switch box outside. You can run a wire to it and the machine (or any other electrical device). You just attach it to the metal case. Like the terminal lug this guy was showing. Use logic not just instruction. If you have any electricity being introduced to the metal case, you want it to pass to a ground through anything other than your body. So putting a wire to make that connection is a better source than your body. Meaning, the wie has far less resistance and the electricity will follow that path instead of you.

[@ugobaldereschi6407]

Hi, thank you for sharing your great experience. According to your considerations about pump and cooling water, do you believe it worth to ground even the water for example with a grounded metal pole inside?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

No if anything I would insulate and insure the pump was plugged into a GFI as well as never stick your hand into the water with the pump plugged in.

[@walishakir3486]

Is it possible that you can show how to properly ground the laser? Because you brought this to my attention I looked and I can find any instructions on how to safely ground the laser.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Its actually pretty basic, you run a light gauge wire to an earthen grounding rod. It is recommend to have a dedicated grounding rod and here is a video on how to install (kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWbIoKWmhqegopI). For me (as an example not a recommendation) is I have tied mine directly into my ground stake for my home electrical rather than add a second one. This way I have two paths to ground and one (i.e. the one tied directly to ground stake) is know good and I am not feeding back the high voltage though the common ground of my homes wiring.

[@Michael-lo3ht]

So is the power plug only 2 prong? If it is 3 prong then why isn't it grounded to the chassis? Just trying to understand why it isn't grounded through the power plug.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

All the k40's I have seen or owned have the standard 3 prong plug. Devices with only 2 must be electrically isolated however the k40 is not so it needs a third prong which is a safety ground. The way this works is if a hot wire from the main short to the metal chassis, the "safety ground" provides a path ground and creates a "ground fault" this is what causes the circuit breaker to trip (this is in the fuse days there weren't grounded plugs). However the k40 has has a high voltage power supply (~25,000 volts) to power the tube (via that well insulated red wire) however you will notice that on the other end of the tube there is a black wire which connects to the case (this shouldn't be but yea this thing was made in china). This should really form a ground loop for HV-PWS for the tube as the "safety ground" is only intended to handle a load for a few millisecond till the breaker blows. With k40 your feeding the complete duty cycle into the safety ground (if you don't have a separate ground). What does this mean, well if your running the laser and the wife, or kids touch the toaster and the metal water faucet. They could create a "better" (i.e. lower resistance) ground and guess what, that ~25,000 volts will passing from one (on the toaster) to the other on the water faucet passes you guessed their heart. Now some people on this thread, argue that 21ma or so won't kill you and other say it will. Now if your grown adult in good heath it will likely just give you a shock you won't forget (I still have a scare from a 25k fly-back transformer from 37 years ago). However if you have heart issues, or a child it could be whole different story and I would hate find out if you know what mean (my cousin was electrocuted in a freak accident when we were both 14 so sh-t does happen). Now someone will read this and feel compelled to write about bonding the ground rods so I am going tackle that to as people argue that if they are bonded why do you need a dedicated one? The short answer is because of the direct path, you are assured a solid path rather depending on the safety ground of your home wiring. However you are creating a ground loop (home safely ground-k40-dedicated ground) so should the path to ground could be better though your k40 for household appliance then that will be the safety ground path to ground. Its also worth note that most regional electrical codes do require that all ground rods be bonded as to not create differential. Keep in mind these devices weren't intended for home use and someone got the idea of importing them. As on top of this, you have a cheap Chinese (water) pump your tossing into a bucket of water and there is the toxic fumes created by cutting plastics. So long story short, is these thing can be scary...

[@el737rs]

Weird things happen when ground is not properly connected. When I was checking my machine, I accidentally found out that there is 110V between the ground in the wall outlet and an unplugged machine, which was on the other end plugged only to the USB port of the PC (strange also because I'm in Europe and we use 220V here). As soon as I unpacked the laser, first thing I did was to check the grounding by measuring resistance from many random metal parts of gantry and the housing, all the way through the power cable to the wall. It seemed OK, at around 6 ohm, but anyway I added another wire from the ground port to the copper pipe of my heating system, for which I'm sure is grounded well. Final resistance from the machine to the ground now measures 0 (full short). I'm happy with it

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

6 is at the top end, but 0 (or near is best)...

[@Duraltia]

So basically ensure for there to be two wires coming out of the PSU's Grounding Terminal? One that *came* from the grounding pin of the C14 Connector and another one that *goes* to somewhere to the metal chasses grounding it?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Not sure I am tracking as the "cathode" from the laser tube connects to chassis ground and therefore the "chassis" needs to be connected to the earthen ground as this is the "discharge" path for the 20k volts which energize the tube...

[@Duraltia]

So instead of *directly* grounding the laser cathode to the PSU's grounding terminal they deliberately choose to use the chassis as conductor in-between? I'm too much of a laymen when it comes to electricity but for some reason this seems like a very wrong practice to me. Speaking of safety concerns... Just recently there was an article floating around about a couple and their cats being killed by the gases produced by what the media identified as a 3D Laser Printer which didn't quite make sense in my book ( I have a Form 2 SLA 3D Laser Printer ) so I assume this so called Laser Printer actually being a Laser Cutter like this one - Could this be caused by the CO2 inside the Tube or the cutting of hazardous materials without proper ventilation?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

While it is a bit complex to explain, but unless the device is double insulated connecting to a common chassis is sort of the only way to go. This is the reason they also stress you need to have an earthen ground and frankly this is the same most "industrial" machinery. Where we have gotten soft is that most "consumer" power tools today are double insulated and therefore this isn't the case (a Chinese laser cutter is not a consumer grade tool)... Also have not heard the cat thing, however it would not from the CO2 in the as there is in fact very little in there...

[@andysmith9277]

So you altered the machine to remove the ground and it is dangerous? how is this different to other pieces of electrical appliances

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

That is the point your not getting it, I did NOT alter the machine. The design of these machines by their nature is dangerous as they simply connect the cathode directly to the metal chassis of the laser cutter. Most devices of this nature are double installed and this is not. The instruction are very clear (even for being in Chinese) that a dedicated earthen ground is required. Even if you watch the Chinese setup videos you can see them connect this ground. However people are buying this in the US and "just plunging it in" as if you asked the average home homeowner how to install a ground rod. People even in apartment buildings are buy them and using them! I made this video because I watched person on KZbin take a heck of a direct shock from one of these.

[@roymcglynn9768]

Cheers for the video pal you may have well just saved my life!! Soon as it arrived and the insturctions where for another model I had to check it over all wires connections eveything and when I started to uncover loose wires and more I had to do some research and found your video. So glad I never plugged it in mine came without groundwire and there was no way I was plugging it into UK mains untill I was clued up. Scary to think how many people have bought these and just plugged it in without proper grounding!!

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Your very welcome!

[@tech-vs5oj]

Good video and advice especially for countries like spain etc where electrical is sub standard. For a non electrical person your information is great and good to warn that appliances should be checked prior to use,especially if not produced within the uk wher standards are a lot higher. I am an electrician in uk and am certificated in PAT (portable appliance testing) and electrical installation. It is not just chinese but any foreign electrical appliance you need to check the effectiveness of earth. You first need to check the effectiveness of your main incoming earth using an earth loop impedance tester (in UK this is usually ok unless rural)then your appliances earth. In the UK you are protected by the fiitting of an RCCD in main unit(usually 30ma trip) and an MCB in DB Board to protect short circuit and cable. Outside buildings should be protected with rccd. Connect your unit to a socket fitted with an RCCD if unsure and make sure casing of unit is electrically sound.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Many thanks for the comments! Here in the states electricians cheat many times and simply use the copper water system as a ground, however there is no assurances this is (a) a good ground or (b) a sustainable one as I have a number of times plumbers come in and replace a section of copper piper with plastic boom no ground! Also what is an RCCD? Is it like a ground fault interrupter?

[@beantea5592]

So what exactly is the danger, touching the box while the machine is on? Touching the box and something else simultaneously? Forgive me but my knowledge of electronics is near 0 and I don't think I fully grasp what grounding is or how to go about rigging it up. For that reason I would like to know how to avoid whatever it is exactly that can be a danger.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

to make it simple, electrocution. The cathode of the laser tube is connected directly to the metal case, so they are dumping 20,000 volts or abouts at 20ma to the frame of the machine and if you become a better ground or there isn't a ground that will pass though your body. Will 20ma kill you? If your healthy and young it will likely sit you on your a-s pretty good, if you have heart issues it could kill you so play it safe and insure there is a proper earth ground as instructions call for...

[@quarlow1215]

This is very eye opening for me. I live in a houseboat that my dad built which is still sitting on the shore. I know for a fact that it is only grounded threw the power grid and does not have an earth ground. I will definitely tie my machine to a ground rod when I finally get one.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

I would also suggest a second grounding rod for the rest of the electrical system too :-)

[@xKatjaxPurrsx]

Mine is double protected. Since the outlets in my place are all non-grounded I had my landlord drive a grounding spike into the ground outside and wired it up to my outlet. Also I have a ground wire running from the lug on the case to a spot i sanded clean on the radiator pipe which I tested was properly grounded by testing it against L and N from an outlet.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Two paths are always better than one...

[@russg2921]

3 Pin in the UK one which is the earth on the plug/socket . 15Kv what did you measure it with, !

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

It still needs a separate earthen ground as bleeding back though the electrical [cords] ground is bad idea (you can read all of the reasons why in the comment section) and to measure it I licked it with my tongue..

[@AndrewAHayes]

Are you saying that the mains wiring inside these units are dodgy?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Worse this is all HIGH voltage! The cathode of the laser tube (which is basically a big neon tube) attaches directly the metal case of the cutter!

[@Seags]

The fact that so many 'experts' have taken you to task for giving what has to be the very best advice on youtube scares the bejeesis out of me. You make such obvious sense (and have probably saved a life or two in the process) yet still the knowledge trolls have to have their say. All I will say is...THANK YOU! Oh, and that I am just off to ground my machine...I've been pushing my luck for too long :-)

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

LOL! Yes sometime I am left shaking my head however if it helps just one person, it was worth dealing with the trolls :-)

[@pmgodfrey]

If you have multiple ground rods on the property, they must be bonded together using 4 or 6 gauge wire. I just tested the resistance on mine between the ground pin on the plug and the lug on the back of the machine. It reads 0.12 Ω. Only thing I can think of as to why your machine has such a high resistance is poor grounding in the case. I'd replace the ground wire from the back end of that IEC connector and use a proper crimped ring terminal, screw and star washer.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Actually, mine [i.e. ground rod] is on the other side of the house from where the house [ground rod] is located and can't remember the resistance but it is quite good and the key is not have it leaking into the homes ground and having two paths as the laser actually needs the ground to work is not just a safety as is the case with electrical appliances pre-say...

[@pmgodfrey]

If you're using a three prong power cable, then the two ground paths are connected. The ground on the IEC connector in my machine has a ground wire that is bonded to multiple points in the case. If one rod is not properly bonded to the other, a voltage difference could exist between the two. You have to remember that some guy in china wrote incredibly poor instructions. It comes down to the same reason you don't use a separate ground rod for a sub panel. The ground must return to the main panel.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

In a three prong connection you have a hot, neutral and ground and the issue is a household ground is not designed for discharge but safety in fact if you read down in the notes another viewer actually linked standards code for this. Keep in mind a laser tube is nothing more than arc lamp so the high voltage has to have a dedicated path to ground as you are correct in your sub-pannel example and wouldn't see an issue (noting that I am not a licensed electrician and his is only my comments ) with bundling the rods if there is a dedicated line to those stakes as what you don't is to lose the homes ground and have this feedback into the rest of the house than it would create the potential for a shock hazard.

[@pmgodfrey]

Ah...I'm seeing it now -- yes, discharge. Never mind! Had a brainfart. :) I shall do the same with mine as you did with yours.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

No worries anymore I just call them senior moments :-) However, yes by Geroge you have it!

[@hoofaa17]

So the extra ground wire is required?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

It is a MUST unless you want to run the electrocution...

[@mikecarter8880]

How many people have been electrocuted with these machines?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

No clue but hope is you won't be one...

[@privatebubba8876]

Zero

[@jbrondos]

I'm just a hobbyist and take your cautions seriously. Thank you. Still, I wonder if you could (a) demonstrate how to properly ground the machine and (b) list which woods give off noxious/dangerous fumes when burned.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

+jbrondos I get this question a lot (how to properly ground the machine) and I stay away from that because (1) it can vary by locality so you should check your local electrical codes (2) you can Google earthen grounding and find a ton of existing videos which are all very good. On the later again there are several sites you can that have already done this and a nice job to do just didn't to reinvent what's been done. However thank you for the appreciation and kind comments :-)

[@jbrondos]

I understand the legal ramifications of providing certain advice in a public forum, and it is wise to defer. :) REGARDING THE GROUND: My son originally set up the unit for me, and as I go back to doing some rediscovery, I noticed that on the back of the unit, just under the 110v input, is a red screw labeled "Ground." Is it safe to say that connecting a wire between this and a solid earthen ground would suffice? Maybe I should get a certified electrician to verify the proper gauge wire for the ground connection and to identify a solid earthen ground? Also, I just noticed two other three-prong outlets on the back of my unit . . . for fan and water pump? Any precautionary tales about whether it's okay to use those . . . or better to plug them into a wall receptacle? REGARDING WOOD TOXICITY -- I did find this interesting site regarding wood allergies and toxicity; www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity/ The EPA also has comments about wood smoke and health: www.epa.gov/burnwise/wood-smoke-and-your-health

[@DarrenMalin]

I bought myself one of these for xmass. the problem is I live in Spain were the power system is two pin with no ground. They is a earth leak protection trip instead. I have not fired in the cutter yet the wife insists it goes under the tree :). Not really sure what to do about the grounding issue now.....

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

As shared in the other video you will need to install an earthen ground and this just to get it to work you will need an earthen ground

[@benjaminblumer352]

At 7:18, you say it's the laser cutter wiring and not the home wiring that's the problem. But the earthen ground is going to be connected at the exact same point as the household ground (right?). So at that point, isn't it just a question of whether or not you trust your house's ground?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Nope, think of this way. If you allow the laser to discharge via your home's ground (i.e. the round connector of plug) and there is a fault in the system and your daughter is making toast using a grounded (three prong toaster) and provides a better ground (by touching the toaster's metal body and the metal water faucet). That charge will pass through her to ground which is a bad thing. As your homes ground is meant as a "safety" and not as discharge point as the laser because its a high voltage device expects and needs a "directed" ground to work . Whereas your homes ground is a "shared" ground and typically per-code not expected to sink any more than ~3ma of sustained leakage while your laser will be sinking ~18 to 22ma...

[@zaord]

Thanks a lot for this !

[@chubbyboy2242]

What would be the best way to ground one of these if I am putting it in my basement?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Run a ground wire from the outside (i.e. from a grounding rod) into your basement...

[@logan2815]

Can you post a link on a how to make an earthen ground video? I have never done this and I just got my machine and really want to try it out!!!

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

My suggestion would be to check with your local building department as each can be a little different as your home today should have one and what you will want to do is add a second one just like that (i.e. the existing on). If you read down in the comments you will see several threads about why you don't want to share the existing.

[@delgado649]

DIY3DTECH.com

[@johnnyingram938]

Thanks for heads up but why not make a video on proper grounding the k40

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Thanks for commenting, the answer is easy and I talk about that in a couple videos (1) I am not a licensed electrician and while I have the personal understanding equivalent to one due to experience, it does not easily translate to someone without the same experience which could lead to harm (as yes it does happen as I had a cousin electrocuted) Second (2) is local building code can vary to "what" is proper so one statement could not possibly cover my global audience. Hope this explains :-)

[@johnnyingram938]

@@DIY3DTECHcom is there a data plate on your equipment?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

This thing is from china, there is nothing other then in a photocopied manual with a BIG warning this thing MUST be grounded :-)

[@futhaiter366]

But its good that you point the danger out of the water pump. We also get that not grounded rubbish here ... so the risk is same same.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

I think the pump is a higher risk then HV because of current...

[@Pistolonly1]

Okay. I watched your videos and learned a lot of tips out of it. I just got my laser, same as yours, and I won't plug in just yet because one of your vids, in fact, these exact videos show me not to because of safety reasons. Okay, one question, is it safe to use one of the wall outlet ground sockets to use as a ground? Btw, I live in the US. Thanks again for the great video.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

You welcome and no on the household ground, if you read down on that page in the comment this question has is a common question and have covered it couples from a couple so hope this helps and glad you found the video helpful and any question fell free to ask. Oh you did get the proper safety glasses too correct? :-)

[@Pistolonly1]

Thank you for the quick reply, sir. And yes your videos are very helpful. I forgot to mention that I live in a two story apartment and I can't modify any wiring whatsoever in this place. Can you guide me what to do next? Thanks again.

[@Pistolonly1]

I found this on amazon. Outlet Surge Protector w/Ground Terminating Screw. will this work?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Sorry no you need a dedicated ground...

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

To be honest, lasers are not made for apartment living as not only is there an electrical issue, but also the fumes which are even more dangerous as they need to vented well away from other people. So just tossing a vent hose out the window is just passing the toxic and potentially cancerous gases to the neighbors.

[@hyperspeed3dprinting694]

hi there have you seen my vid on my laser cutter sparking could i ground it to the radiator

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

For it to be properly grounded, it should be grounded to an earthen ground. So think of it this way, if you connect it to your radiator and your radiator doesn't have a proper ground, you have now charged the radiator with 25,000 volts (Ouch)...

[@hyperspeed3dprinting694]

what about putting it in a plug ?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

That's even worse read down through the comments as it all covered in there...

[@kevinoakes1870]

sir thank you very much. I've just puchased this laser and didn't realise how dangerous the electronics could be. I will be thoroughly testing it and installing a dedicated ground rod before powering up. you may have just saved my life. thank you :-)

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Your very welcome and happy lasering! Any questions just ask!

[@rolandotorrico9624]

Question how did you go about measuring the 15k volts you mentioned?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

its the rating of the power supply....

[@MrSailbadthesinner]

This video is riddled with technical errors, too many to list! However the basic message is correct. Any current over about 10mA following through your body has the possibility to kill you and any voltage over about 25v (if your skin is damp) or about 50v with dry skin has the potential to drive that lethal current through you. Good reliable Earth connections are an essential safety measure not just for the 15,000 to 20,000v HT supply within in these lasers but for the 110v or 230v mains supply to the whole unit. Dave Profesional Electrical Engineer Member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Dave many thanks for writing however worth note the purpose of this video is not to be academic however to express in simple terms the dangers presented by such a device as I watched too many video of people doing "risky" things without thinking :-)

[@JustinCrediblename]

how would one make one of these lasers safe but portable?...like a normal laser pointer is

[@fierymongoose9945]

The laser in a laser pointer is generally under .005 watts. These have a 40 watt laser so about 10,000 times more power. There is no way to make one safe if there is physical damage inside that causes the power to be connected to the case.

[@walterhynson2898]

I am still working on mine and for grounding I have a solid #10 copper wire from a ground rod to my machine also I sanded of the paint around the ground connection on the back of the case after I connected everything up I checked all around the power supply and circuit boards to insure they are grounded,I also checked from the power plug ground pin to the ground wire to insure it is truly grounded,mny years ago I was responsible for the install and maintenance of corad 100 watt industrial lasers,however I aree these machines are no toy for a teenage kid plus alot of adults.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Many thanks for this comment! :-)

[@Centar1964]

12 vdc will not kill but yes the extra ground connection on these lasers is not incase you don't have a grounded house wiring, it is there to be used for a good solid ground. I would never trust the 3rd prong on an ac socket for a important ground.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

There are really two issues here, the first is the 15,000 or so volts from the laser PS which is yes only around 20ma and current kills. However, the issue is the voltage is high enough to arrest the heart which can kill you, The second is the 110 volt pump which is dropped into a bucket of water and people stick their hands in there to test water temp, this is asking for trouble especially if this is not a GFI circuit. Also the laser is designed to use an earthened ground as leakage to the third prong is yet another safety risk.

[@linuspauly2380]

Wait... you say 1064 glasses... isnt a co2 laser always 10600nm?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

just short hand as co2 lasers are around 10.6 micrometers

[@seanlee3363]

i live in an apartment, my machine is near the window, how should i ground it?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

You should with your local building authority on code for a proper ground as there is no short cutting it...

[@neatpleats11]

I wish there was a way to give you 2 thumbs up on this. I am truly frightened and will take that extra precaution to ground ground ground...

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Many thanks! As yes with this beast grounding is very important as with most larger power tools.

[@susanneallen6691]

I have the water pump, fan, and laser plugged in to a surge protector that is plugged into a GFI and I have the laser machine grounded to a rod driven into the ground. With the laser in off positive, if I turn on the water pump and the fan using the switch on the surge protector. Everything comes on. I can turn the laser on. Then turn the laser off. When I then turn the surge protector off cutting power to the fan and water pump, the GFI at the outlet and the one built into the surge protector both trip. I've tried replacing the fan and it still happens. I would like to not kill myself. Can anyone advise what I should be doing differently?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

I am not sure I am tracking, if the GFI is tripping that means it is seeing a ground fault and likely because the ground rod is a higher resistance then your homes ground. Second I am not sure it is even possible connect a GFI to a laser of this nature because some leakage will likely take place...

[@norbertdavis8903]

This is a great safety video for lasers and pretty much any electrical appliance. Many times we don't think about the grounding and presume the "engineers" are looking out for our safety. Thanks for the great insight. Norbert

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Many thanks, as I just couldn't get over some of the video's I've seen over the past month or so neglecting the safety aspects of these as they really are shoddy when it come to safety and I don't think people realize this...

[@norbertdavis8903]

+DIY3DTECH.com - Unfortunately a lot of people assume that the manufacturer is really looking out for the consumer. Just look at Jeep, instead of fixing their transmission gear selector mechanism they put out a video on how to use it properly. Did the auto industry forget the Corvair push button transmission issues? Same problem slightly different application. Why anyone would buy a car with a transmission selector that is so different from everything else they have used or are used to is beyond me. With lasers comes high voltage and the risk associated with that. These are just as dangerous or slightly more so than using a hair dryer in the shower.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Have to snicker about the Jeep as the wife has one which has been recalled for the shifter, sad that actor died last week because of it as it is a "poor" design...

[@norbertdavis8903]

Stay safe with that Jeep. JEEP = Jacked-up Engineering Eliminating People

[@Shredxcam22]

Use the grounding prong on the plug to ground it?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

No, please read comments in this video. The plugs ground is a safety, this machine require a true earthen ground otherwise your going to electrify all of the devices in your home...

[@Shredxcam22]

I think you might want to read into case grounding and the us electrical system. I'm going to guess that is if your in a place with 2 wiring electrical, or at least that was there intent. Adding multiple grounds to your house isn't needed and can infact cause problems with ground loops. Only a few things, like a permanent generator require a grounding post. Open up a microwave, you'll find a similar setup utilizing case grounding. The 120VAC at the wall outlet is more than likely more dangerous than the output of the tube power supply. A tube has a high resistance, a low resistance on the output of the power supply would draw the voltage down but we don't care about the voltage. It's the current and it probably can't source more than a few miliamps at most. If the water pump is shocking you, my first question is do you have it plugged into a GFCI protected outlet? That is designed to protect you from this type of thing. I'm an electrician, have an engineering degree and worth on things like X-ray machines.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you didn't watch the video. I did not say you need to two ground rods for your home. You need a dedicated ground rod for this device, the instructions that come with it spell it out clearly (but must people ignore) as the cathode of the tube discharges directly to earth. Also if your an electrician you know you do not want to bleed this current back though your homes grounding system either (if you read the threads, other electricians have have even comment with the standards) :-)

[@MileyonDisney]

Thanks!

[@WolfetonePickups]

The four people who disliked this video must be from the companies who make these machines. That being said, maybe I'll think twice about buying one.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

As with any tool (especially made in China), one has to be careful and people do need to think about it as they are dangerous in more ways than one...

[@mikecarter8880]

Having been bothered by the question of ground rod or no. 2 electricians said no, if your connected properly and you have the 3rd prong ground plug you are fine. Adding another ground rod is dangerous. If I was to do a second ground then I risk a loop feed back.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

If they told you that (and in the US) they I would not have them do any work for me. You can read though the comments where many people point out in the electrical code the third prong is a "safety" and not meant for steady discharge and this is likely what they don't know about the machine as the laser tube is dumping its cathode to the case and if you read the instructions it very clear it requires its own ground. Now they are semi right about the two grounds as "technically" if you have more then one they should be tied together otherwise electricity will seek the lower path which could be an issue. As the core issue (and the reason for saying semi right) is these machines really are a piss-poor design combining a case and cathode ground together as they should be separate. If the UL reviewed these it would be laughable. Just be safe :-)

[@dustingrice]

Now you really have me wondering about this myself.. I am in the US with a 3 prong cord, I would assume I am okay to move forward plugged in as normal without worrying about a separate ground wire correct? Just like I would plug in a 3 prong printer, computer, etc? Thanks so much for all the feedback here and the great video, keep up the great work.

[@BrandegeePierce]

Any suggestions for someone in a condominium?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Don't buy one, these are not close quarters friendly devices as they emit a lot of "toxic" smoke and you vent it out your window, its likely to be blowing into your neighbors. This is on top of the electrical risks...

[@BrandegeePierce]

@@DIY3DTECHcom Ok, well... I have one now but plan on selling it. I have it vented out the back of our apartment. First 2 times I used it I didn't vent and got a headache so hopefully didn't cut too much of my life off. Thanks for the reply.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Don't feel bad this why you don't see any current video on these, as I live in a subdivision and the neighbors complained about the smell. However I am fixing that problem i just bought 5 Acres zoned agricultural and building a new house and shop there so NO ONE to complain!

[@mikecarter8880]

What if you are upstairs and don't have a grounding rod?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Then you should install one or not use the machine. Please keep in mind these where not designed by the Chinese for "in home use" as am guessing you don't understand how machine works and hence the question. As the power supply develops and discharges around 20,000 volts though the laser tube and needs a ground and this is why it says you need to earthen ground in the instructions (as well as their video online) and it doesn't make exclusions if you are using it upstairs.

[@famalourian2463]

Thanks for taking the time to make this video to make(keep) people aware of the risk these can pose if we're not careful with them. After seeing your video, I went through the grounding of my K40 thoroughly. Mine is now grounded positively both through my (USA) 3 prong ground pin on the outlet as well as a supplemental connection from the case to an earth-grounded water pipe. I love my K40, even though it took me a while to get it working the way I want.

[@dalecapen9860]

I made a ground by taking a reg size ground wire attaching to a piece of steal rod and pushed it into an outlet ground and that should protect me I think

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

From what you wrote concerns me, you should consult with a local professional as for one grounding rods are typically copper to avoid rusting as steel will and lose its ground. Second, I am not sure " pushed it into an outlet" doing this is the safe approach.

[@chrisrogers1833]

Apparently this machine is designed to dump voltage through the ground during normal operation. Dumping voltage into your outlet would ground it, but it also energises your ground, possibly leaving every other appliance potentially more dangerous.

[@جبلعامل]

hello can this make 3d crystal photos ? please advice ...

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

No do not believe it is possible, while not an expert in this area it appears that a green laser (~532 nm) is used and focused is adjusted to create a point cloud in the cube with a narrow beam.

[@ifell3]

Doesn't your body have a ohm resistance of around 1000ohms?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

The NIOSH states "Under dry conditions, the resistance offered by the human body may be as high as 100,000 Ohms. Wet or broken skin may drop the body's resistance to 1,000 Ohms," adding that "high-voltage electrical energy quickly breaks down human skin, reducing the human body's resistance to 500 Ohms."

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Keep in mind the current here isn't could or would kill it is the voltage as again it could stop your heart and do other nasty things...

[@robertclark608]

Hi. I have one of these lasers on its way to me. I'm pretty clueless with electrics but want to make sure I'm not going to kill myself using the machine. I believe it has a ground lug on the side of the machine. Is it enough to connect this to the Earth of the socket? :S I'm not able to install a ground rod, so what are my other options if I can't connect to the Earth of the socket? Thanks.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

The short and simple is there is not an option to "not" have an earthen ground that is simply how it is designed. You can read down the comments and get an idea why bleeding the high voltage back though your homes ground is a risk.

[@robertclark608]

But if there is an Earth connected via the plug, and a dedicated earth to ground rod via the chassis, if all are interconnected, then it will earth by the path of lowest resistance. So if that happens to be the sockets earth rather than the earth to ground, then what would be the point in having the ground rod, and visa versa. I am in Europe if that makes any difference to your argument. I´ve been warned of double loop issues etc with having two earths. Please explain, I´ve read through the comments below, but there seems to be arguments both ways across the internet. I agree wholeheartedly that a good earth is essential but its just the question of the dedicated rod plus socket earth vs. only the socket earth that is getting me confused as I believe it is only going to discharge through one and not both.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

+robert clark long story short, your home ground is designed as means of safety and not intended for steady discharge as it is likely at a higher impedance than a good earthen ground. Also all the devices in your home are connected to this ground and I don't mean to be graphic but say your kids are making toast while your laser cutting and they become a better ground as they grab the water faucet and grounded toaster . Was it worth it?

[@robertclark608]

So to clarify, not only should I install a ground rod, but I should also disconnect the earth cable to the plug, just in case that has a lower resistance than the dedicated ground rod? Since, if the plug's earth is of lower resistance it would still take that route, still potentially killing my kids as you say. Please confirm.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

You would leave both as again your home ground is a safety. Now I am not an electrician by trade and unaware of your local electrical codes (something you should check) however typically you will bond the ground rods together to balance the resistance (so no path is lower) as what you don't want is it finding a "lower" ground. You might also want to consult with a local electrician if you feel uncomfortable with all of this as while they sell these on eBay part of me wonders how as between the grounding, the unprotected tube, and toxic fumes. They are anything other than plug and play so just be careful...

[@bizzy423]

I don't understand if people run their dryers water heaters, AC and stoves that pull a lot more amps why do they need a dedicated earth ground just for a flaky Chinese 50W machine? Shouldn't a dryer and house ac compressor have a backup earth ground as well?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Simple, because those devices are not "high voltage" devices. A flaky Chinese laser creates 15k to 25k volts and "depends" on a ground to work. If you remove the ground the laser will stop working (while it seeks a ground which could be you and if it finds you as a ground than you could be dead). Where all of the other devices should also YES have a ground however that that is only for a safety "if" a hot becomes shorted it will find ground rather than you/ As if you look a your flaky Chinese laser the cathode is connect to the case which you touch, where as there is no cathode in your washer, dryer or stove connected to the case. Hoep this helps :-)

[@bizzy423]

Playing devils advocate here. Why cant grounding the laser to your electrical panel or the power meter conduit be adequate? What is the difference between a sustained ground and what your house ground gives you? A water heater or stove if it shorts to the appliance chassis is going to have to dissipate a lot of current through the house ground. Ya the voltage isn't as high but your fluorescent lights are generating a lot of voltage just like the laser to excite the gas and they don't need a special ground. Also how come all the people who own aquariums aren't complaining? {devils advocate again not trying to be a weasel here even if I sound like one.)

[@ludditeneaderthal]

Bruce Ismond because high voltage finds lowest potential it can. In your home, that's your hot lead at neg peak. Nothing in your home wiring is rated over 600v, so to 15kv it is basically a little ballast resistance between your wall recepticle green wire and black one. That excess voltage goes and visits everything on that bus leg of your breaker box, often no matter what position the switch is in. Not horrible for your hot plate, kinda lethal for your vintage Telefunken audio gear, lol. Caps explode, resistors too. Not something you want to subject your junk to, in most cases

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Apples an oranges, the laser uses the earthen ground to ground the laser tube. Has nothing to do with the current as you still have the standard flow from hot to neutral, but the high voltage created for has to go somewhere and with out an earthen ground it will feed back into electrical system which is not a good thing...

[@DieselRamcharger]

Because of the voltage potential to ground. Learn more. Ask less.

[@ludditeneaderthal]

So I should only touch a k40 with my feet?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

If that is your thing go for it, who I am to judge...

[@ludditeneaderthal]

DIY3DTECH.com lolz, both ready for snark week I see. In all seriousness, anyone who has had their left elbow on the hood hinge when their right hand brushed a spark plugs wire on a gm hei Iggy has experienced that "Kettering cycle defibrillator", where not only the sensation of being swarmed by fire ants, but also that whole "guts tossed in a mixmaster full of gravel" experience as well. Yes, it certainly can kill you, though risk is mostly to those who are cardiac cases already, even heathy pups can get quite dead. Far more dangerous is the potential for fire, pretty much anywhere along the final path to ground that HV finds. Expensive hv damage to electronics too, as well as frying winding enamel in motors and coils. For apt dwellers, plumbing was traditionally genuine Earth ground, but plastic piping has made that very iffy. Even drains have to be megged to be sure these days. Best bet is really to just drop a ground from a window, and bury it in the landscaping, lol

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Yea when were kids the big joke was to get our city cousin to hold the spark wire while we pulled the rope on the go-cart, always good for laugh and when we got older it was drinking beer and peeing on the electric fences. Yet when my 14 year cousin touched a 110 volt light bulb and lost his life to the electron, the joking became less funny and far more real. It all really comes down to how well your ground at the time of the event and the path the electricity has to take. Remember, you can downed in an inch of water as well as a 100 feet of it...

[@Pigeon_FX]

Excellent video, and very much needed! I was very surprised to find out on arrival that my K40 had been wired very well, fully earthed for the vastly superior British 3 pin plug ;) (unlike every other bit of equipment I have received from China). But, watching some of these youtube videos, and forum post of people in the states using their K40 on little mobile tables with no earth gives me the collywobbles!

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

You guys and that funky plug :-) (I spend a lot of time in London:-)

[@Pigeon_FX]

I could tell you were a man of impeccable taste!

[@ifell3]

So, does this apply to use in the UK? I know things are wired differently in the US spec wise, but theory the same. I've got one very worried sister who keeps seeing things on youtube etc.

[@Pigeon_FX]

Yes this applies in the UK, as in you need to check your unit is grounded, Have a look at the socket where the unit plugs in, there should be a green and yellow stripped wire attached to the metal enclosure it self.

[@ifell3]

Pigeon FX hi pigeon, thank you for the reply. Yes I know what the earth wire is etc but I mean do you run another separate earth off as well as the plugged earth. After a little more research it appears that this secondary earth is joined to the plug earth, implying that this could be a earth for a external piece of equipment, ie the pump, which my sister has said doesn't have its own earth. Which by the way I believe is a stupid idea and should be ran on its own breaker.

[@danilobolanos8524]

muchas gracias por la informacion, compre una k40, espero empezar de la forma correcta... Thanks for the information, i bought a k80 laser cutter, and i have hope to use it in the correct way.

[@piraats008]

It applies a s much to the machines made in USA as the Chinese ones.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

That is 100% correct!

[@AndrewAHayes]

wouldn't the RCD trip if there was an earth fault?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Nope this is on the High Voltage side PWS...

[@johnmarkham]

I'm in favour of grounding and safety but let's not be alarmist. A quick shock of 20-30 mA is unlikely to be lethal and the voltage drop across the 8 ohm ground path isn't going to hurt anyone. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_injury That said, "unlikely" isn't "can't". People vary and so let's not take the risk. I'd like to see in side the machine to see what's producing the high voltage and how it can get to the metal case.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

John you are sort of right, however have you had a family member electrocuted when they shouldn't have? I have, as you can say oh it won't hurt anyone, well maybe your right, however in my cousins case he is dead because of a fluke event so they do happen. What happens if the person has a pacemaker or irregular heart? Are you a cardiologist?

[@johnmarkham]

I'm all for eliminating risk and having good grounds. Respect. But a more carefully measured message would make it more effective.

[@merrillalbury8214]

Same applies to 3d printers in some plastics. Vent, vent. Vent

[@2020visionofrochesterhills]

I see these all over eBay and see nightmare reviews that scare me... Are these decent machines for the money? Or are they crap?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

You need to be a bit handy and have knowledge of micro-controllers and they are amazing machines, however they are NOT turn key. but for turn key you will pay a lot of money so there is a trade off...

[@aguilargutierrez4]

Make a video of how to ground this machines

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Installing earthen ground rods is typically defined in your local electrical code and there are a number of video's on KZbin (How to install a copper ground rod--DIY) or just search on KZbin "install earthen ground rod" and you come up with dozens. Hope this helps and please be safe :-)

[@aguilargutierrez4]

Thanks I'm looking into purchasing a laser cutter, thank you for all you videos !

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Your welcome also have a page set up on the site that pulls the various offerings from eBay by wattage (diy3dtech.com/purchase-laser/)

[@megashub]

I live in the Seattle area and recently purchased a 40W version of this laser, but haven't powered it up yet. I rent the home I'm in so I can't just go drilling holes in my foundation to install a grounding rod, but I'm /reasonably/ certain that the home is already adequately grounded. So, two questions: 1) Can you recommend how best to validate that the home really is sufficiently grounded? and 2) How would you recommend I safely tie the laser's ground terminal into the home's ground? I'm clearly and admittedly still a total layman when it comes to HV systems, and just don't want to kill myself or others while in the process of self-education. :) But I also do need to validate the laser is at least baseline functional before the 30-day return policy expires. Other than that, I'm in no hurry to get cutting and am keeping safety as my #1 priority. Thanks in advance for your advice and I appreciate your videos. EDIT: Nevermind! I should have kept reading further down. This is obviously insufficient as the home's ground is meant to be shared and isn't sufficient for the laser. I'll be adding a dedicated ground outside the garage.

[@cbeck611]

I have been watching tons of videos of these k40 chinese engravers and a kid didn't have his grounded and it shocked him when he felt his bucket of laser coolant water.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Yes saw that and in fact that video prompted me to make this one as he was lucky! As even if you have it grounded, do not stick your hand in the water bucket. As that water pump is a piece of junk and its plugged into 110 volts and likely a 15 amp household circuit, it will kill you. It is no different than filling up the bath tub, tossing in an iron and reaching in to grab it (bad idea).

[@BriantWoodworks]

Appriciate the spread of knowledge, thanks!!

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Thanks for commenting and you’re very welcome

[@JacobNeitling]

what is a safe Leakage Current on a laser with just a wall plug with ground? i am using a killawatt meter ( www.p3international.com/products/p4330.html ) and it ranges from .3 to .5 and in manual it says .3 is high end. I am on concrete. www.slpower.com/reference/An113%20Leakage%20Current.pdf not sure i totally understand but it say acceptable limits are movable 3.5 mA

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

I will try to clarify, if you are using your laser today with out a service or earthen ground the laser tube is using the plug or outlet ground. Now if it's a 40 watt that means about 23 mA at max are passing to that ground. Now the links you provided say the max should be 3.5mA so you will be over. It is also not good to depend on your outlet ground for steady discharge as it is meant for safety. Also if you lose the outlet ground or you become a better ground that is where the risk arises.

[@Kedzie_]

This is, sadly, giving me a *great* deal of pause in buying one of these. Yes, technically, it's only an issue if the unit loses ground, but I live in a townhouse with no way to install an earth ground line. The best I can do is rely on the ground plug in the outlet.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

These are not townhouse friendly as they generate a ton of toxic fumes also and your neighbors will be beating your door down when you run it...

[@Kedzie_]

I could easily vent it outside, it would be sitting right near a window anyway. But is it that loud? My walls are far from paper thin.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Not too loud however again the fumes are both a lot and toxic so even vented outside they hang around and trust me people will smell it and complain...

[@Kedzie_]

All of that aside, any advice on the grounding issue?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Got to have it, as the machine depends upon it for the high voltage discharge. It's rather crude in a way, but that why it's so cheap. Again you can read all the threads in the comment section as to way you should not sink via your homes ground. Hope this helps...

[@TheMichaelGrace]

Thank you for sharing this important information.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Your welcome!

[@maxmccormick3376]

Why would anyone grab both wires in the first place? If you hadn't put that alligator clip inside the thing, there would be no chance of anyone coming into contact with the high voltage.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

You really don't get do you? The [entire metal] case is the high voltage ground for the cathode, the clip is only there to show the arc and if don't earthen ground "the case" it will leak back into your homes ground and if faulty (which many are) will electrify all of your appliances so touching them will do the same and and even "if" your home ground is working and "you" become a "better" ground same thing...

[@simonbarclay6074]

Great Video and its can be difficult for trainee EE's being trained in Electrical Safety to grasp Max so your forgiven, basically take his word for it that their a death trap, earthing and bonding can be complex to grasp.... im an appliance electrical engineer and iv not given this much thought at a hunch im presuming in china they may still have no earth/ground in some premises? so the mains/power cable may not earth the body of the cabinet effectively due to it not being fully designed to comply with us/eu regulations? and maybe someone could answer this question? can the body of the laser machine be fitted to the earthing of the socket outlet? just like any manufacturer of a complaint electrical machine would do so? or does any laser machine regardless of what brand require a backup ground just incase the earth cable was ever cut in the power cable? due to high dangerous voltages present? ..... would a RCD device give a user added protection from shock?

[@georgegonzalez2442]

Three EE's in our family, and none of us can make the slightest sense out of this video. You have two unidentified wires coming out through a vent slot, and you show two dozen milliamps between something and something else and a small spark. So what? Under normal operation, without a yellow and a black clip lead coming out, there is no electrical way for the chassis to get far from ground. All of the stuff about the ground resistance is bogus too. It would take hundreds of amps of leakage to ground to raise the chassis to a dangerous level.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Send you EE's back to school. This laser uses a high voltage PS neon light or the flyback of older style TV (I cover this in this video) so it is generates around 25k-volts. So while the current is low I also assume you have heard of a defibrillator correct? These operate at 1kv to 5kv and can kill as well as save by arresting your heart. Would your EE siblings allow there their child to grab the hot end of 25kv and with their left hand and grounded water pipe with their right? I hope not...

[@georgegonzalez2442]

You have not explained HOW the 25KV can get out of the box. Or how ungrounding the box changes anything. The box is grounded mainly to bypass the small leakage current from the AC line bypass capacitors. Even when ungrounded this leakage is specified by international law IEC 60601 to be no more than a few milliamps (www.mddionline.com/article/leakage-current-standards-simplified) and of course by Kirchoff's law it cannot exceed half the line voltage. I don't know where you are tapping off that "lethal" voltage or current, but your measurements are obviously bogus. The human body is not a short-circuit, like your milliamp meter is, appliances come grounded, and tapping off some internal node with a yellow clip-lead is not typical operation.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Again if you watch the video you will see the case is being used as the "cathode" for the laser tube (which is really like a neon lamp) and if you read the instruction it MUST have an earthen ground, however most people do not understand and allow it to leak via the electrical ground which is bad. If you read down the threads its should become clear as its been a heavily commented video...

[@darrellhale3880]

Bad insulation is one way 25kV can get out of the tube and into the chassis. I have already heard more than one person asking about arcing they were seeing inside their laser. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iabCmo2HgdGfqMk

[@flaviofasano2604]

A free tip: often check (making measurements) the earth connection of an electrical system; always check that any instrument, user, appliance or other one is used, has the connection perfectly working with the system's earthing. Regards

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Yes is sort of the point of the video as I have seen many home grounds fail and this is where the issue becomes a big problem...

[@sabrinaflipse7732]

lots of good info but one peeve is that you never showed how to actually ground it :(

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Thanks and for good reason as its can vary by local code. In short you need to connect it to an earthen ground and that is dependent upon your local building codes.

[@nickm324]

While I appreciate you effort in the video to stress the point of safety but its videos like these that cause more confusion than clarity. the confusion comes when you get 15 people posting 30 different opinions, for example EEs stating your information is wrong then others saying contradicting them. So where is the verified information about whats valid here and whats opinion. Makes it very difficult to take anything away from videos like these when you have supposed experts contradicting what you are saying.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

The difference I have had a close family member die of electrocution in a situation that should not of killed him. So when people ramble academic crap, I simply remember his lifeless face in that coffin...

[@nickm324]

@@DIY3DTECHcom Sorry for your loss, I was not saying you were wrong just saying there is so much conflicting information related to video like these. And yours is not the only one. The whole concept of these videos kind of gets thwarted when you get all this conflicting info.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

It gets simple you respect electricity and live, you disrespect it you are likely to die. Typically its current that kills, however given the correct conditions it too will. I made this video after seeing another KZbinr do several stupid things with one these that simply blew my mind...

[@jbrondos]

On the topic of safety, I saw where one K40 user was using the coolant/antifreeze Propylene Glycol (not Ethylene Glycol, which is more hazardous) to cool his laser instead of just plain water . . . and using a 620 gallons-per-hour submersible water pump. Can you or your subscribers think of any reason why these things would not be a good idea? (After watching your video, I'm ordering a new pump that has a three-prong grounded plug. I can't imagine why anyone would want a submersible pump without that.)

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

+jbrondos have seen the use of antifreeze quite a bit because of the fumes people keep them in garages where the temp can drop below freezing. Since I work in the data center business know quite a bit about both forms and not really supportive using these in a hobbyist setting. There other greener antifreeze solutions out there and one I've seen is pet safe RV waterline antifreeze. Now three prongs verses two, keep in mind two prong means these are insulated pumps whereas three may mean no so be careful. I use a GFI circuit and avoid sticking my hand in the water while energized...

[@RJMaker]

Great PSA video!

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

LOL! When I saw that (PSA) could think of the Robot Chicken skit "A PSA about not making a PSA" :-) However in making this I just could not get over the number of people who stick their hands in a 5 gallon bucket of water with 110 or 220 line running into it and think nothing about it! Sorta like lets drop the hair dryer in the bath tub and fetch it out again. Back many moons ago when I was I teenager my cousin (who was also a teen) was electrocuted by doing something dumb like that as it only takes a split second of bad judgment...

[@RJMaker]

You're not kidding, so true. I work with high voltage/current in my day job (HA-HVAC/R Mech) and even when you're watching your P's and Q's things can and do go wrong. Sometimes the difference between a painful reminder and severe damage can be found in the most basic of safety procedures.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Yup, for a lot of years I built large scale datacenters and got a call in the middle of night the the electrician dropped a wrench on the bus bar with 1 million watts going through it, it was about 8 feet down the flash burn covered most of his body however he was lucky and lived. As you say "even when you're watching your P's and Q's things can and do go wrong."

[@BarryBernau]

Thank you for the video

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

You're welcome

[@michaelsteiner7833]

CAN YOU GROUND THIS BY GROUNDING TO THE CAST IRON RADIATOR ATTACHED TO THE BOILER ?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

I wouldn’t recommend it as you aren’t guartted a ground and now your electrifying the whole system which never was intended to be electrified

[@JaakkoF]

Stopped watching the minute you mentioned that the 15 kV is what stops your heart. No, no it doesn't. Don't start teaching if you don't know what you are talking about.

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

If you don't think 15k can't stop your heart PLEASE PLEASE! don't watch my channel as you sir don't know what your talking about...

[@unlost117]

Jaakko these power supplies are more than capable of killing you. Its the 15kV that forces the necessary current through your body. The poster makes a reasonable warning and is correct. They deliver up to 18mA on my machine although at a lower voltage than 15kV while running at that current i imagine.

[@techlife9665]

Hmm brother good caution.... 15k Is not a joke as it is from China build not Japan or Korean...

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

You got that one right!

[@ElevatedEngraver970]

Amazing Video! THANK YOU

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Your welcome :-)

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Your welcome :-)

[@river2000sg2]

Thank you very much!

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Your welcome

[@wind5250]

Good video but i'm pretty sure your numbers are off, at 30 ma you would get respiratory paralysis , ventricular fibrillation is 75ma or higher ,heart paralysis at 4 amps. A good example of this is a defibrillator which uses around 4 amps to restart your heart .

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

The thing is it all depends, as I cover in the video current is the real killer, however not always the case so why take the chance as I have seen people die twice when folks they should have by electricity...

[@permofit]

Wow 345 watts

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

???

[@permofit]

Watts = voltage x amps 15000 volts x .023 amps = 345 watts more then enough to kill if it gets under the skin or across the heart great video

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Ah however for clarity should be 15000 volts x .0023 amps = 34.5 watts (which is actually the tube size) and enough to arrest the heart :-) Thanks for the kind comments...

[@permofit]

DIY3DTECH.com o ok .023 = milli amp on a short keep up the good videos

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Thanks for watch and glad your enjoying them!

[@jasonm887]

I have this grounded very well at my house and am still very nervous about it. I just don't trust the shotty Chinese construction.

[@jrdevelopment2020]

I like This Most people don't pay attention to this and don't realize it only takes 10 ma to kill you!! great video

[@pch_mechanika]

DIY3DTECH.com - this... is important, would you care to make a video HOW to inspect this laser and make it 'safe' for and electrical noobs?

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Well that is what I tried to cover in this video as I saw so many people doing risky things in other video's I had to make this. However there is a bit of range in the various machines and there two MAJOR rules. (1) wear laser safety glasses rated for machine your using (note this only protects you from the reflection so don't look at the beam directly!) (2) is proper grounding (which includes do not stick you hand in the water bucket).

[@pch_mechanika]

By the way if i can ask what real work area are you getting out of thes unit. Per specs it says 200 mm x 300 mm but i just wonder if this is accurate or is there a bit more ?

[@mattr0815]

Recently I've purchased one of these smaller units without a grounding screw - any precautions I should be taking? Here's an example of the type I'm talking about: bit.ly/2D7dZyh

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

No you don't have to worry with this one it a diode laser and not a high voltage CO2 tube...

[@eagleeye5520]

you desirve the biggest like on youtube for this great video man thanks so much i SALUTE poeple who use their brain

[@DIY3DTECHcom]

Many thanks!