【Kagamine Rin】 The Riddler who won't solve riddles ~English Subbed~ 【Vocaloid PV】

[@mrsom900]

Alright, here's my two cents: Rin and Len are guests at a party. Len poisons all the glasses except his own, but he accidentally gives the non-poisoned one to Rin. Before anyone could die of the poison, Rin stabbed everyone but Len. Both of them wanted to incriminate themselves when the police arrive in order to save the other, so they both "play detective" to get the other to accuse them. The "curse" is a metaphor for this stalemate they've reached, which can only be broken by one admitting the other is the culprit, which neither wants to do. In the end, with neither able to win, they wait for someone else to join the "their world" (the fake investigation at this party) to whom they will tell the whole story, and that person will then decide who the culprit is.

[@toxicrivenmain52]

Katty Madi This is my theory: Len and Rin are on a ship. The first victim was a man alone in his room who's glass of wine had been poisoned. Silently listening to the Detective speaking, the girl was getting angrier and angrier, and yet he continued. Rin asked him - was there a reason for that? The reason is simple, at that point, the man was destined to die - even if he hadn't died from the glass of wine, he'd have been killed by the Culprit who was going to use a knife to kill him. The second victim was pushed into the ocean. Len could only kill people one by one, but still wasn't the culprit. One by one, the people died and died. And in the end, Len, the accomplice, couldn't accept what he had done and decided to take full blame in Rin's stead. Rin tried to kill him, however, and take the blame for herself - Len simply pushed her knife away, though. Rin felt as if it was her fault Len lost his arm. In the end, Rin is the Culprit and Len is the accomplice playing Detective who tried to take the blame for himself.

[@sugarkane1571]

Katty Madi Mind. Blown. (explodes)

[@sugarkane1571]

Katty Madi You solved it! Now you are going to be dragged into their story!

[@anubis7457]

Katty, why would Len poison Rin's wine glass? And only one person died from a poisoned wine. The rest fell into the ocean.

[@anubis7457]

Your theory doesn't add up to the information in the story. :/

[@pineapplepizza7500]

"Why do you insist on getting yourself hurt?" Currently thinking back to servant of evil.

[@pineapplepizza7500]

***** No kidding.

[@AngelicWhispers]

+LUNA HAPPYFACE it's not just that too .Almost in like every mv Len is always the one who dies ;A;

[@italy9843]

Me too tbh

[@HelloHello-im3gt]

This is why when I go to miku expo and see a Len cosplay I will go up and said LEN STOPING FKING DIEING IN ALMOST EVERY SONG U SING and walk alway

[@kittiechen2005]

LUNA HAPPYFACE yup...

[@inotaami9984]

Long theory here Basically, at the beginning of the video Rin said that " I told him that I was going to do the killing" and then Len insisted that he played the role of the detective because he wants to atone for his sins. This shows that Len wanted to play the detective so that he got a change to blame himself over a past crime. Now, if we recall the video "The riddler who can't solve riddles" Len is most likely the one who kills back then (he even admits it) but Rin never called his name, which means that she covers him up. So, probably the video the riddler who can't solve riddles is a prequel of this video. At 0:34 Rin said that at the beginning Len is the one who blindfolded her. This means that at the beginning Len didn't allow Rin to kill and instead kills for her. Then about the wine glass. At 0:51 Rin mentioned that if they didn't die by poison, they would've died by knife. This tells us that if Len didn't take the role as the culprit and poisons the victim (such as in the video the riddler who can't solve riddles) Rin would have to kill them using a knife (such as in this video) Then at 1:06 Rin said that she'll undo this rusted curse. Rusted means that it isn't supposed to happen again, it's already happened before and can only end if one of them admits their crime, but both of them commits the crime in their own alternate video (universe). They also mentioned that the curse is put out by a mean culprit. In other words the culprit is the one who caused them to kill. At 2:03 Rin mentioned that Len could kill them one by one but can't be the culprit. This means that the culprit could've killed them all at once. At 3:00 Rin said that if the person who can solve the riddle appears she will have to trap them inside this story. This means that the person who can solve the riddle is the culprit themselves and thus deserves the blame for the crime because they 'used' Rin and Len as a tool to commit the crime. Now, if we think about it, isn't the culprit us. We're the one who forced Rin and Len to commit the murders and it will continue as long as we press the replay button and that it won't stop unless we stopped replaying. This is not something that Rin and Len can control. The video The Riddler who can't solve Riddles is released before this video and is most likely the one we watched first. This means that we're also blamed for Len's past crime. Besides, it's true that we can kill everyone each time we pressed the start button once but Len/Rin is the one who have to kill them one by one and when they say they'll trap you inside this story...Well it makes sense, you'll have this video inside your head all day as you continue to blame yourself just like how both Rin and Len blamed themselves too. You're basically already a part of this story~ Welcome~

[@elizabethdragonclaw2916]

Dude that was deep. Also thanks for making me feel a bit guilty

[@hypnotwist1221]

Inota Ami I think we have a solver for the riddle...

[@AudreyBiancaGLim]

+Inota Ami That was I nice one!, but I want to keep repeating it... I like the creepy tune... :(

[@yuuto6723]

Woah A genius culprit :3

[@CaedusDeorum]

Genius.

[@WeirdGirl_14]

Flash at 3:29--- "The Culprit is Someone Else" "The Crime in the Morning" "The Other Detective" "The Detective being the Culprit"

[@tonymcgrew2774]

WeirdGirl Thanks. So who is the other detective in this case. I think it was Len because Rin called him the other detective. She said it was a mistake to bring him into this. I think this means that Len either switched the poisoned wine Rin made for a poisoned one or switched it for a non-poisoned wine. Situation 1 would make Len the murderer. This is plausible because in this song Len would basically do anything for Rin. Situation 2 would make ringtones the murderer. This situation is most likely because in the song, Rin said that if he didn't die by poison, he'd die by knife. I think this means Rin killed the master with a knife. In the case of the other people's murder, they were most likely killed by Len. If so, this would support situation 2 because in the song it's stated Len lost an arm for Rin. I think Len killed all the other people to take suspicions off Rin or to get rid of any possible witnesses. Thank you for the info that I needed for that theory.

[@tonymcgrew2774]

It's possible

[@cinderamawonder5645]

Nice I could barely read it when I made my comment

[@neetloch7354]

It was Kira. End of story.

[@pendragonqueen0956]

XD Agreed. I thought you were dead!!!! Wait... Lawliet? 0.0

[@letsreadtextbook1687]

No it was Junko. It is always Junko

[@williamcampbell4807]

I'm going to take a potato chip *AND EAT IT*!

[@Notlinkle]

Yoshikage or light

[@TheofficalKagamineLen]

This song is so nostalgic. I miss when vocaloid songs had this quirky, home-made vibe to them!!

[@masterofthecourt5435]

Yeah, not to be a nostalfag but most modern vocaloid music sounds just like normal JPop

[@TheofficalKagamineLen]

@@masterofthecourt5435 I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN. I have been a Vocaloid fan for about 10 years, and I was always attracted to it because of the unique, diy aspect of it. With other celebrities, there are usually big corporations funding them, and they have a bigger budget so they can afford to have these dramatic, live music videos and expensive equipment to record their music. However, with Vocaloid it’s always been “some guy who can play the piano” or “some guy who can play the piano and his artistic friend”. There were never any rich corporations behind most vocaloid producers. It’s just people having fun online. Now it feels like modern Vocaloid/other synth songs have been turned into cash grabs and corporate shills. People used to make series with vocaloid songs, and develop these deep storylines (e.g. evillious chronicles) , and now we just got “sing about being a bad bitch” and “j-pop-type beat” songs. I miss 2009-2015 vocaloid that shit was the best. (Sorry for the rant i’m on the spectrum)

[@LooDoesStuff]

@@TheofficalKagamineLeni feel the same way, it’s good to know I’m not the only one. Not to be that person but I’m not really a fan of modern vocaloid stuff tbh (the songs that usually get popular at least)

[@Shaggybangs]

​@@TheofficalKagamineLen facts! That's the reason why I still prefer the older vocaloid songs.

[@TheofficalKagamineLen]

@@Shaggybangs do u have any favorites? Record red, Cantarella, and remote control have me in a chokehold

[@mohammadfadhil4305]

I think the characters involved in this riddle are, The Viewer(the other detective causing the deaths), The Writer(the atrocious culprit), Ren and Len. Throughout the first video, Len wants to convince Ren that he's the killer, and threatens her so she runs away, before "his hands" kill her against his will, which is part of the curse. Ren knowing Len wouldn't do such a thing, and that he tends to save others by hurting himself, she plans to save him by killing him and taking the blame for the crime. Len and Rin try to confuse "the other detective" who is the viewer trying to solve the riddle, because solving the riddle will harm Rin and/or Len. In other words, the riddle shouldn't be solved, and the one who solves it will become part of the curse. ======================= Here's a bunch of facts to help others make their own theories : we know for a fact that Len saved Rin from a fire and lost an arm because of it, meaning Len wants to protect Rin even if it means hurting himself, so there's no way he's gonna let Rin be the culprit, and Rin wouldn't let Len be the culprit because she's in debt to him for saving her life. - One of them is lying about stuff, like when Len says there's one glass, Ren says there's two, Len says that Ren saw it all, but Ren says that Len blindfolded her, so she couldn't see anything. - A man was poisoned in his room alone, he was destined to die at 12 am, Rin saw who was responsible. A man is watching from the window whilst they're conversing. Who dropped the bodies into the ocean? and was the real culprit among them? Rin had a plan, and "the other detective" was the plan's only flaw. Len claims he is the culprit. Len threatens to kill Rin. Len wants to atone for his sins. Len wants to play the role of "detective". The detective did the killings. Rin was blindfolded at the BEGINNING 5 times, 1st was a white fabric, 2nd was green flowers, 3rd was black fabric, 4th was two hands wearing gloves and 5th was a man with one hand and a coat (Len probably) There were two wine glasses. The first man who got killed would've died by another person if the first person couldn't kill him.(She knows the truth and she woulda done the same thing) Rin thinks Len is lying (probably that the first victim didn't die or it didn't happen at 12 am but at 4am), and that he wasn't the detective in the crime. Len is anxious about the times 12 and 4 am. (he knows something Ren doesn't) "He" killed them one by one, but couldn't be the culprit ?!?! Rin accidentally kills Len after telling him he's not the culprit. The one who solves the riddle, becomes a part of the riddle. In the end all must die. The riddle contains factual errors. The end hints : - The culprit is someone else - The crime was in the morning - There is another detective - The other detective is the culprit Len can't solve riddles.(because it'll kill them both) Ren won't solve riddles.(because the riddle means that Len is the killer)

[@crybabybf1990]

So basically the writer is the true killer. Okay you know what that means... kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHOyh4eViLVnjq8

[@swillthesad]

Okay. This is what I got, and it's a bit lengthy, so bare with me. Ok. Taking a whole different, really psychologic-y deep spin on this, all spawned from the fact that the lyrics "if he hadn't died from the 'poison' he would've eventually died by the 'knife'" the "." Around these words is cause to believe that neither of these was truly the method of murder, and simply metaphors. Also the lyrics explaining that if anyone can solve the riddle, they must be dragged into their "world" which again leads to belief that this is something different entirely. Len isn't a killer, but he is volatile. Despite it being seen as the other way around often, Rin is the poison, and Len the knife. Rin's "killings" are stealthy, subtle and untraceable, and she maintains a calm state of mind through both songs, while Len's "murders" scream to be discovered, and he tends to be more manic. Len has two sides, his negative self, and his usual self, depicted by the one/two armed detectives respectively. The two armed is aggressive, which is why the arm shown that typically is missing is bloodstained. He's shown with redder eyes, less patience, and a more violent temper, in the first song threatening to kill Rin. The one armed however is his more docile side, the one who sacrificed something of himself to save Rin, thus his lack of one arm. One uses himself for wicked, the other good. Rin is the peacekeeper, attempting to keep Len's "two armed" self down, the "poison" which tries to kill him (thus the blackening clocks and anxiousness as his time ran out). Through most of the second song, Len is "one armed" shown as more calm, and almost confused. However at times in the first song his eyes would darken a bit and he would sing an eerily dark line such as "he was destined to die." This is the "two armed" self trying to show, which the moment it does, Rin attempts to "stab" or "kill" the "two armed self" to regain stability. This isn't about murders. It's about Rin's struggles to keep Len's sanity in tact and keep the brother she knows, attempting to kill the darker and more violent side of him to do so, and unlike how many portray it as Len protecting Rin, it's truly the other way around. What the "darkness" is in Len is variable, it could be anything from mental instability to even alcoholism. Just my theory.

[@DarknessMaidenAlice]

0.0 You have just blown my mind, and I really like this explanation.

[@swillthesad]

DarknessMaidenAlice Thanks! It's a bit of a brain spew with a good amount of holes, but even things I didn't directly cover it seems to explain pretty well. Like the "the atrocious culprit wasn't you" could be interpreted as a sort of "it wasn't your fault." "It's done because it's the past." And "he needs to atone for his sins" both link to the idea of past violence that they both are just trying to forget, but it comes back to haunt them. The "blindfolded" he was attempting to cover and hide the problem from her at first, making it seem less bad because he didn't want to hurt her but it eventually spiraled out of his control. I could go on, and despite the holes it stays pretty solid, as far as theories go. Had that floating in my head for maybe a year and decides to display it in all it's weird, confusing glory to the public ;3

[@DarknessMaidenAlice]

XD I like it. It works very well.

[@linkhyrule5800]

Interesting. But what about the ocean?

[@swillthesad]

Filay Minion Ok, based on that I'm covering more holes here to try and avoid future confusions. I tend to have two theories on what the ocean is. If you know or knew anyone suffering from any sort of disorder or illness that causes violence or despondence (let's go off of my previous example of Alchoholism) people tend to stray or break away from them, set their distance and sever all ties. Even family can and often will do this. Though Rin stayed and attempted to save him, others weren't so close and left him while he struggled. One theory of the bodies abandoned in the ocean is that they represent the people who left him when he needed them, who "died" while he was trying to "solve the case" of whatever is causing his problem. The part of "was the culprit really among them?" Is him attempting to see if he lost himself with them, if a part of him "died" with the people who left him that he can't get back, if he's lost them for good. Similarly, it could also be interpreted as the people simply representing the thing's he's lost due to his problem, the freedoms, emotions, dreams he's been forced to throw away. In the same way as the other theory he can't tell that, if things do grow better, if the "culprit" was among them and an essential piece of him "died" with whatever he lost. The entire "ocean" part is almost in my eyes his way of struggling to figure out and rationalize his own mind as it falls apart, "Riddle Solver Who Can't Solve Riddles" more around Len's internal struggles while "Riddle Solver Who Won't Solve Riddles" is more about Rin striving to bring back the brother she loves. The whole debacle of "Say my name" is Len blaming himself for his problem, even if it's out of his control. He wants Rin to give up on him, desperate to just have her let him go so she doesn't have to struggle. "Everything happened in front of your eyes" is Len's way of saying "You know how I am, you saw how I am with your own eyes, stop lying to yourself" as again he's trying to push her away or "kill her.", slightly contradicting how he "blindfolded" her. It's as if he both doesn't want her to see how bad he really is and at the same times does want her to understand the severity of his problem so she'll leave him behind. His one armed self is desperate to keep her safe from himself and who/what he is, unwilling to drag her down with him as he struggles to find his own "culprit" and solve his own "crime" or in the words of the mysterious man, "Atone for his sins". Ok. Are we good here? If anyone has any more questions or comments, they know where the comments section is ^w^ Explaining my brain child is kinda fun actually.

[@ArtEsoterica]

Here's what I think- Len poisoned the man, but afterwards Rin stabbed him. Len dumped the man's body in the river and his arm got covered in blood, which he realized Rin was the actual killer. Len wants to be blamed as the culprit to protect Rin-the killer- but also because he feels that he is guilty for attempting murder anyways. However, Rin does not want the riddle to be solved that way, and refuses to say that Len is the culprit. they both are the culprits.

[@schmacker101]

I don't think that's it though… something's not right…

[@ArtEsoterica]

schmacker101 There are things that are left out, that are missing, but that's all I could really speculate that's obvious. What I heard was that the riddle at the end provides the basis of clues though, and the "factual errors" mean each is a lie. Which means: The culprit is not someone else, all those crimes had not only taken place in morning. And, the culprit could not be just the detective.

[@ArtEsoterica]

schmacker101 what I like the most about this song is how everyone can have their own theories about what happened, and no one fights about what's right and what's wrong. Such an amazing riddle.

[@schmacker101]

I got clues from the video on a flash up screen: The culprit is someone else The crime in the morning The other detective The detective being the culprit These are all "Factual errors"

[@catharinrin]

warriormossfoot Maybe Rin was supposed to drown with the others? Because an "arm" pulled her our and saved her?

[@NagisaOfficial_0v3rachi3v3r]

I think It's a story in a book (the person you see in beginning is the author). He started writing the mystery, but before finishing, he realizes that there's too many loopholes ("filled with factual errors") and quits writing before everyone in the story dies like he planned to. The two characters still alive in the story (Rin/Len) are trying to solve it, not knowing there'll never be an ending to their suffering. (I'm also under the impression they both sinned equally, both saying "I did it.")

[@DetectiveRackham]

I have contemplated about the flash of words near the end when the man says "there are too many factual errors", and noticed that they are factual ERRORS. Since they are errors, we can conclude the following: 1. The crimes that happened in the morning (the poisoning, the drownings) were NOT supposed to be "crimes"; they were all intended to be either intentional suicide, or accident. 2. The detective (Len) is NOT the culprit, supported by the fact that Rin wished to whisper to him "The hideous culprit is not you"; it means that for certain, Len is not the culprit and thus must be the detective who got "involved" in the matters, likely providing false covers for Rin since he still liked her. 3. "The culprit is someone else"-or is he? This is the statement that we make; that we, the detectives who were called to solve this case, are not the culprits. However, there're no evidences what so ever that we are not the culprits; in fact, the very fact that we know EXACTLY what happened and what Rin and Len said makes us even more likely to be the mastermind behind all this, but ironically we do not even consider such possibility. 4. "The other detective"-since we already concluded Len to be the other detective who was "involved", and this is the factual list of ERRORS, we can be certain that Len is not actually a bona-fide detective; instead, he is likely to be either pretnding to be one, so that he can cover Rin, or be a criminal himself who utilized his cover as a detective to help Rin out. And here is the list of facts that we can consider to be true, or at least likely to be true: 1. The man to die first by being poisoned was killed by the knife (the correctly translated lyrics I obtained stated something like "he died not by the poison but by the knife") 2. The five people who drowned were either drunk and went over the sides, or were pushed off by someone while either being already dead or wounded by the knife. 3. The crimes happened in an mansion on an island. 4. We somehow know all this occurrence, including exact words that were said. 5. Len lost his right arm to a fire while saving Rin. 6. Rin and Len loved each other, and Len used to play a piano. 7. They indeed created a story that entraps us; even an old, retiring detective like myself is being intrigued by it! 8. Len knew that Rin would always carry around her knife. 9. Rin is either a serial killer (she was willing to kill Len with a knife, and Len seemed to be providing cover for her), or a paranoid vigilante who wishes to protect oneself from any harm by any means, including preemptive strikes. (Supported when she mentions how Len could protect anyone if he keeps getting himself hurt) 10. The "mysterious man", sitting in front of a desk with a book and a pen, neither has a visible face nor any definite signs to tell of his/her age or gender; I believe that this person represents our inner self, wanting to cause all this havoc and destruction and deaths, refrained by our occupation as detectives.

[@DetectiveRackham]

Ah, my account is fixed at last!

[@FlyingFish248]

Oh my gosh. I'm going to be obsessing over this, now that you've told me that.

[@kitty88903]

So, based on all of your gathered information, what's your ultimate conclusion?

[@DetectiveRackham]

My conclusion is this: Rin is either a serial killer or paranoid vigilante (either way she kills people), while Len is someone who commited a crime in the past, disguised himself with occupation as a detective, and to atone for his past criminal records he provides cover for Rin. We, the viewers, are the detectives entrusted with solving this case. The mysterious man with white gloves is either someone else, who arranged everything and invited Rin and Len to solve "what would happen" at the party, or that man could represent the dark, hidden, and murderous nature within us all the viewers. Evidence that almost everyone has such evil hidden within their hearts: when you say that you were soo angry that you could've killed so-and-so, you really could've if your sane part of your mind did not intervene. I suggest reading Agatha Christie's book "The Curtain: Hercule Poirot's last case" for even more examples.

[@coldknot24]

DetectiveRackham I guess why that is why len is the riddle solver who can't solve riddles. he can't because he is not a riddle solver (detective).

[@Chinka90]

from viewing the comments the culprit is us..the viewer OH YES FINALLY I CAN KILL SOMEONE WITHOUT EVEN TOUCHING THEM //slap

[@sugarkane1571]

miku kozuki You deserve cookies for that accomplishment

[@cupidhoney9783]

I love how 4 years ago we could just inadvertantly allow you to get slapped just by reading //slap

[@erymakon]

Remember this comment dawg 🙏

[@cinnamon_coco14]

I’VE BEEN LISTENING TO JUST LEN’S PART FOR YEARS AND JUST LEARNED THAT THIS EXISTS SKFYSHTDSA THIS IS FABULOUS

[@cafelatale_frisk]

SAME😭

[@somebodyoncetoldmetheworld8795]

My theory is that there is so culprit. This is just Rin and Len's own riddle they created in their own world they cannot escape, but there is no answer to this riddle. It is just another Kagamine Twin paradox.

[@rinkagamine2375]

Yup......UGH I HATE PARADOXS'

[@Sencifouy]

I don't know about the paradox but the "real" culprits are both of the creators and the viewer guiding Len in his killing quest (therefore being the "real" brains behind the killing) The viewer re-watches the videos numerous times remaking Len killing his loved ones while the creator of the video set everything up. We believe we are the detectives (so does Len) but WE are the ones playing the video and making Len killing everyone. We are the killers while Len is a tool to us. He feels guilt (obviously not knowing us) and says that he is the killer. Here's my personal theory.

[@leryco4803]

+Ganamabunta08 agree with you

[@alfredkoon5524]

Ganamabunta08 n

[@kazukat15]

I suck at riddles i cant even solve a simple riddle

[@helenhong0312]

We're the cuplrits

[@missseaweed2462]

+NerdyMegumi Yup.

[@crazywolfieleslie6662]

+Unknown WAIT WHAT!

[@helenhong0312]

crazy Wolfie Leslie wolf Yeah. We're the culprits. Since people all over the world keep replaying/watching this video, it causes them to kill more and more, over and over, day and night. We're basically the villains pulling on the strings. Like i kept replaying the video to find out who the real culprit was and because this video was so fun to watch.

[@crazywolfieleslie6662]

Unknown wow

[@_toulouse]

Man, I hope y'all realize the Night Series/Secret Black Vow/etc have _nothing to do with this song series_. They were illustrated by different people and composed by different people (Suzunosuke + Hitoshizuku-P). I doubt they ever even spoke to the composer of the Riddler series. Not to mention, this is a fan-made PV. You people are terrible detectives with no finesse nor common sense.

[@RowantheSongbird]

I'm confused on how people thought it even fit into that series, when I first watched this song, I never once thought that it could belong to a set series already made...

[@_toulouse]

Chesire Crybaby Hatter I'd assume it's how newcomers to Vocaloid assume all the songs are being produced by a singular company when it's actually individuals doing the work. I've seen people think Story of Evil is "canon" to Vocaloid, when it's an independent, more complex series of itself that became popular because of fanmade PVs and spinoffs.

[@RowantheSongbird]

*****​ Ooooooh that would make sense, since sometimes it may be confusing to see one person make a song and then see a completely different song with a different story behind it. Like an author's work, if they happen to write a story and then write a completely different one, with the same characters to it. I can see why that's confusing in a sense.

[@SCCmusicas]

*Card Captor Sakura and Tsubasa Resevoir Chronicles flashback*

[@shadowdragon_7778]

It was Colonel Mustard in the Dining Room with the Candle Stick

[@rhythm3175]

Nearly seven years later and we're still working on solving the crime.

[@NoizyBunny]

Gah my brain hurts every time I listen to this song and "The Riddler who can't solve riddles". When I caught the factual errors at the end of this one I singled in on one which was the crime in the morning one as at this point I seem more focused on the clocks now XD Now i'm just sitting here thinking the first crime when the man was poisoned with the wine was killed at midnight possibly (which would make it in the morning) and wasn't discovered until 2 AM as I noticed the clock moves back from 2 to 12 in "The Riddler who can't solve riddles" and who ever the culprit was had an hour time frame to possibly poison the wine as I noticed a clock behind Len in this one moves from 11 to 12 (of course I have another reason for this time frame as well and I will probably explain that). When the body of the man was discovered by Rin and or someone else the culprit would have taken this time to start killing off everyone else and throwing them into the ocean while Len, knowing who the culprit actually was and even blindfolded (like said in this video) Rin so she couldn't see the culprit when the first crime occurred but let Rin remove the blindfold after the poisoned wine was set, distracted Rin with his playing the detective the first time after the man was discovered to be poisoned. When the others were discovered to be missing and had "fallen" into the ocean Len continues with his playing of the detective and trying to convince Rin to place the blame on him and call out his name. Telling Rin she didn't have much time is where it comes in that possibly maybe either the culprit was going to kill Len after Len killed off Rin or vice versa (The culprit killing off Rin after Rin killed off Len or however you want to think when I say vice versa) and would take off and go into hiding. It could also be when the police or who ever would arrive to investigate, which would be 2 hours ,as I noticed in both videos one clock moves from 6:20 back to 4:20 and the culprit would leave and go into hiding within this 2 hour time frame Finally here's what I also could of been possible as I said earlier the clock moved from 11 to 12 maybe the first crime took place between 11AM and 12PM which would have made it in the morning still until 12 o clock which would make it the afternoon and everything would have still taking place like I mentioned above. Which would mean the first body would have been discovered at 2PM and so on as you've probably read what I said above to this except it all takes place in the afternoon. Considering it said The "Crime" in the morning not "Crimes" in the morning made me figure of this way of thinking as well since it said crime meaning only one crime I thought it could have taken place between 11AM and 12PM considering it would still be morning when the crime took place. However knowing Rin and Len and them saying at the end of this video that they're going to trap the culprit in the story and they welcomed us to their world I just straight up figured that they're just playing with us and we're the true culprits because we keep pushing replay causing them to keep killing XD. Along with the fact that of them saying the culprit is someone else and the lines "The other detective that was dragged into this" from The riddler who can't solve riddles makes me think that us the viewers is the other detective who is being spoken about as when we watched the video we do get dragged into it basically as we're sitting here trying to solve this all. Anyway i've had my say in this and I know whoever will probably read this will tell me something different which will make me even more confused but oh well XD. (EDIT 5-16-16: Well I noticed while reading back over this I made a few mistakes when reading those clocks, I don't know I just have trouble reading hand clocks sometimes, but in all honesty it still doesn't change to much. Anyway here's what i've changed: Instead of 4am it's 2 AM and instead of 4:30 back to 4:20 it's 6:20 back to 4:20 (Yeah smoke weed everyday XD ok ignore my stupidity) but really not too much of my explanation changes except for a the one time frame so instead of the original 10 minute time frame I had it's now 2 hours in the line "It could also be when the police or who ever would arrive to investigate, which would be 2 hours ,as I noticed in both videos one clock moves from 6:20 back to 4:20 and the culprit would leave and go into hiding within this 2 hour time frame")

[@oddri]

That explanation... hurt my head from the amount of thinking I just did. 😂 You obviously understand this more than I do.

[@NoizyBunny]

+PersonPerson “Person” In all honesty I probably hurt my own head just typing this out

[@quicksilver-ace3710]

+Noizy Bunny Okay, so, sweetheart. How many episodes of Detective Conan did you watch to get THIS good at deductions?

[@NoizyBunny]

Literally none XD I wanted to a while ago but once the episode count reaches so far I know I won't watch it because I lack time.

[@quicksilver-ace3710]

***** It's fine, the show is really episodic, so you can start the first episode, and then skip to any episode you want in any season, so long as it's not a two-parter.

[@rianne3597]

(I know that the audience was the culprit) My Theories is not about the riddles itself, but the reason why the watchers was the culprit because they (Rin and Len) are not real. The story is not a real story. We thinking something like "...Oh, so if Len kill his person, and he kill another person.." He doing it because it was based of our imagination. So the culprit is us, who trying to solve the riddles, but all we do just make him kill another person. Im sorry if i wrong, and sorry again because a bad english

[@cookie_catss]

nice theory

[@queenphantomhive6242]

Nice therory , but you are missing a few important details. Who invented the riddle ? Who invited the guests ? What are the 4 sentences flashing on the screen saying? Whose the person at the desk with a book in front of them saying this is a "story" when this is supposed to be a riddle? If you take this into concideration , I say that there are multiple culprits and that we are but one of those culprits.

[@nina6352]

Kiyomi Shirley the author, perhaps?

[@reyofsoul]

I FINALLY SOLVED IT BWAHHAHA ... cough. They key to this riddle is the fact that there is 2 cases: the one with the man alone in his room, with a glass of poisoned wine the other with the rest of the folk drowned in the ocean. after half an hour of listening to these two songs (the other being the riddle solver who won't solve the riddle) and some deep thinking i realised that : Rin wanted to kill the man alone in his room, Len stopped her from doing so and poisoned the glass. Now what about the other case, how can so many ppl die to len ? even if he got some muscles he surely ain't the most brawny dude either :P. So here is my assumption : len may have poisoned all the glasses BUT the poison itself isn't lethal (it's probably a poison who can kill but at the right dose it just put u in a lethargic state). So now len could totally kill them all easily right ? RIGHT ? but he ain't the one who did it

[@montegnovillian6503]

Qccording to my own searches, I found out that some lines have been translated wrong. one of such errors include "he would have died by the knife"-it should be "he was killed by the knife and not poison". From corrected sources, I am in concurrence with The Detective's findings.

[@РобертХорошо]

i mean its like kind of a joke not a mistranslation

[@bbqreal]

Rin that's a fucking butter knife, that ain't going to kill anything.

[@iakobanastos273]

Matpat should do a filmtheory episode on this, just to see if he could come up with something different than just 'the killer is the viewer'.

[@nezoomi]

foR TWO YEARS I NEVER EVEN REALIZED THERE WAS A SEQUEL UNTIL NOW Wow

[@kim77angle]

WOW~ -_- AND YOU MADE THE FIRST ONE AND DIDNT KNOW RIN MADE A SEQUEL....WOW...LEN...THAT..JUST SAD..

[@mxminis]

good job me too.

[@RainbowSprinkles1001]

HAPPENS XD

[@astro-dragons]

I feel like brigning this back up, because I think this makes a lot of sense, but before I bring the theory back up I'd like to state something. DO NOT BASE YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ON THE VIDEO ITSELF. There's one error in the video, Len's not supposed to have his other arm. Like Rin mention's she accidentally took it, in a fire most likely when he was saving her. In the previous video his right arm was reddish for a reason. So yeah, just wanted to get that out of the way... now to the theory! If you watch the video closely towards the end, it says the culprit somewhere else, the crime in the morning, the other detective, the detective being the culprit. Those are the factual errors. if not mistaken. I'm not sure who brought this up, but I thought it fitted the context of the video, the culprit is us, ourselves, for watching the videos and putting this series of events into motion. We killed all those people for just watching the video. I'm sure this is not exactly what the person said, but you get the gist of it. We're the culprit. also there's supposed to be a third detective if I'm not mistaken, which is supposed to be us. well sorry if you read this and found it stupid or irrelevant, but I really liked this theory and hold it to heart.

[@berenicepenguin8993]

All these people making theory’s are thinking to hard to realized by doing this, we are, as Rin says, “trapped inside this story.”

[@DetectiveMazerR]

Sometimes, the simplest solution is the answer.

[@Tafp.]

If we look at the text at the beginning "He insisted on being the detective" if we look at the text at the end "The culprit is someone else" "The crime in the morning" "The other detective" "The detective being the culprit" Theres a few things we can inverse from this. 1 Len was not the culprit. But if the culprit is someone else we only really have 3 figures, rin and len, which if the culprit is someone else it is not likely EITHER of them. But the other detective sounds like the figure we see at the beginning and end, if you look at his face he is doing a slight smile. So my theory is it is not rin or len but that figure.

[@leynanguyen4609]

The culprit is someone else The crime in the morning The other detective The detective being the culprit Oh. we're the killer, since we're the 'other detective' and 'The detective being the culprit' if we never clicked either one of the videos, the crimes would never happen.

[@leynanguyen4609]

***** Maybe she wasn't pointing at us, but at Len? because the text was put after she pointed, at the end of the video, and Len was trying to convince her it was him.

[@leynanguyen4609]

this whole thing is so confusing qq or maybe it was the people that died who killed each other? it could be possible, there are so many holes in this

[@BAmbre-ud3xe]

YOU ARE MY HERO I AM SURE YOU JUST FOUND THE ANSWER

[@tanjashadowwater9410]

At the end, the text says: 'YOU don't want it to end? YOU want to solve it?' all while the person at the table is looking at us. (emphasis on the you's) so this theory is correct-ish?

[@BAmbre-ud3xe]

The amount of correct in this theory is over 9000

[@soursop4]

"He needs to atone for his sins." Wait...anyone thinking of Servant of Evil over here?!!?

[@soursop4]

IKR?!

[@sei6156]

Clara Tan Mystery of Evil?

[@soursop4]

No, Servant of Evil. Did you listen to it before?

[@jenajackson6109]

Theguyintheinternet Is that supposed to be a play on words?

[@sei6156]

Erm.....I dunno I just though of it. I waz board. DUN BLAEM ME.

[@imwatchin8807]

3:30 "There's no chance of you solving it" CHALLENGE ACCEPTED GUY!

[@Rhythmloid]

damn wish we got a remaster or a higher quality version cause i loved this song when i was a lot younger

[@赤くの羽]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmbFd3-FhK2NapI th

[@whatsagoodnamecauseidkhone3789]

I got it. There was no murder at all. It's a trick played by Rin and Len themselves in order to capture all of VOCALOID's fanbase and take over the world. Prepare yourselves.

[@akward-candy8935]

I wanna believe that the 'poison' is a quiet, natural death. The 'knife' as a painful, man faulted death...

[@luthfihar3211]

i think the writer is the killer and the mean culprit, he's the one who wrote the story and when each person will die in that story, that story is the curse in which even if you alter how it goes the person destined to die will die (by the fact that the poisoned man got the poisoned wine instead of the safe one and the fact that rin said he's would still die by the knife) len isn't the detective he's just playing the part to steal our role as the detective so he could stop the story by closing the case by having us stop trying to solve the riddle by repeating the story (this mean the one who the "other detective " is Len who ruined rin's plan of ending the loop by fulfilling the story so all of it can stop) another thing why Len is so nervous is because they're running out of time (towards their pre-determent death and the video's run time) and both his and rin's plan are stopping eachother from succeeding making the watcher keep coming back and replaying the story over and over (the writer is even baiting/mocking us for trying to solve this story instead of just leaving) us replaying the story after this we made ourselves stuck inside this world/loop since we won't get any more story pieces and will just loop the story over and over while rin and len die in the background a reliving these murders over and over again with everyone each time we play the first video in conclusion the only way the story will end and everyone to receive salvation is for us to stop watching and let the story end or have it solved with an arbitrary answer of who is the murderer between rin and len therefor i shall end it with making Len the "killer" as he wished to be

[@cherrydewdrops]

This is what I think is going down. The detective (Len in this case) was the murder, he killed all of the people. He was not, however, the culprit because he did not want to intentionally kill the victims. My guess at who the real culprit is was the unfaced man at the beginning and end of the song. And this is how it goes. The culprit put he "curse" on Len which caused him to kill all the victims. Len didn't want to but had no choice. The only way for the curse to be lifted is that Rin has to say that Len is the murderer. She won't however (whether it's because she has a strong sense of justice, judgment or character is up to you), because she knows that even though Len did kill those people, he is not the culprit and had no choice in the matter. This is sort of supported by the sister song "The Riddler who can't solve Riddles" in the fact that the whole time Len kept telling Rin to say his name, that he is the culprit because only then could he stop the murders. However, she doesn't, tries to kill him because she probably thinks that is the only way for him to die an "innocent man" but fails and is now a part of this "curse" as well.

[@ArtEsoterica]

3:08 someone should make a music box version of this

[@MelCMlol]

Imagine how cool this would be if it was a series but there’s only 2 videos

[@DracoHenrie3]

ok im going to do a total breakdown. this way people can spit theories with with more facts to back it up..i will review each individual video to demonstrate facts from fiction. Video one: --The conversation rin and len have is during knight time when outside is dark. -- 11 o clock is a time of significants. --One person of significance is stabbed and poisoned. --Rin had an non-bloody knife hidden in her pocket. --Rin held an overall stable expression. --Nearby on a table near where they are talking there is a bottle of wine but it is black not red. --Much of there conversation is observed through windows. --There was a Detective. Len's eyes turned Red and he had suddenly had his lost arm, now bloodied. --The originally poisoned and stabbed individual had been thrown off a cliff into the ocean with several other people who had been killed. --Rin attempts to stab/kill Len. --Len's old arm, when it reappeared was wearing a bloodied white glove. --The man of significance had been drinking with someone when he was killed. a drop of poisen had been specificly placed into one of the two wine bottles. The first murder occurred in the morning. --When the camera pans to a certain window, the picture edits to it being bloody. --For Len to have known Rin had seen something that would lead her to knowing the culprit, he would have also had to have been there as all other individuals who could have provided clues died. --Len threatened to kill Rin --Len feel's guilty towards some type of action. --A Drink had fallen sometime during the murders. Now as for video two we learn more and less...which is great... --The Detective is the culprit -- None of the guests shown who were killed or Rin or Len are the mystery man as the There hair would present itself on the sides of his head. --The culprit is someone else. --The person who appears at the beggining and end of the videos is actively aware of the conversation going on between Len and Rin meaning he is/was either listening in or had someone listen in. --The case was never solved. --At some point Len had blindfolded/ cover Rin's line of vision with his hands. --Len no Longer has his arm. --Len and the mystery man had communicated after the first murder, they had talked about how Len wanted to be the detective and how the mystery man was the true murderer. --The mystery Man had held the intention of killing everyone at the party/gathering presented by bloodied photos of everyone including Len and Rin in 0:02 bloodied. --The mystery man's clothing is without blood. -- The mystery Man is comfirmingly sitting in the room in which Rin and Len were talking in. It is also still dark so it is safe to assume that the mystery man appeared in the room a short time after the end of len and rin's conversation. --Len at one point had said to the mystery man that he needed to "atone for his sins". --Assuming Len and Rin were talking normally with no awareness of the audience( like one would in everday life) then it would mean that they intentionally lied to eachother, seeing as both hold errors in what they said. --the white flowers presented in the second video are in fact the Narcissus flower which can cause vomiting nausea and cramping.Formerly used to confuse and leverage out small groups of people in the wilderness seeing as how common they are in the wilderness. --4 AM and 12 Midnight are significant times in the which Len is aware of. 1:55 --4 AM would match the mornging boudary that was set as the start of the murder. the Midnight Time might represent the time in which the conversation between Len and Rin end. --The Mystery man is the only one left in the end. --The cloak Len is wearing does not belong to neither him nor Rin as he did not go to the party/gathering with it. --Rin did not wish to attempt to solve the mystery. --Len ended up wearing the cloak again In the end. --Both Len and Rin's songs occur to them in about half the time of both songs put together, presented by the fact the peddles in the air took the about 1/2 of this song to land where as a real flower peddle only takes a few moments at best. --Len had lost his other arm and he had used it to play piano. --Len had saved Rin from a fire. --The detective being the culprit ERRORS: --Choice of lineage of events in which each speak. neither of the speak of the events as they occurred. --Neither mention there interaction with any detective despite both referencing the presents of a detective, Len also never mentions his relation or interaction with the mystery man. --Main error is the presents of Len's arm when it is biologically impossible and the fact the remainder of the story and flash backs of earlier present that he no longer had it. --Rin presents to us that she took off Len's jacket and Len presents that he took it off and through it to her. Both are lies as Len remains with and dies with it on actuality.. --Neither state how the other guessed died or if either of them killed them./ --The truth of the scene is Len is very apparent of what time it is, hence rin's reference to his anxiousness. Neither refer to the fact he had been paying attention to the time directly. --Other errors unknown-- ----------- Well with that done i'm going off for a little so what would be really cool is if peeps could like this so everyone could see the fact list of each videos here and be able to have an easier time solving the mystery!!

[@seomii2929]

Whoa how do people come up with this stuff! You must have done a lot of research...

[@Elcheer]

If only everything was spelled right...

[@Rachelsalners]

I think that the person who wrote this song is the culprit

[@WeirdGirl321]

In the end, the flash of words says 'The culprit is someone else' 'The crime in the morning' 'The other detective' 'The detective being the culprit'

[@kittymasks]

There’s a lot of theories here, but I don’t have theory. This song just means something to me. I remember the first time I heard this song fully. I was on a plane that was delayed till 11:00 at night and was drained from my vacation. I had fallen asleep listening to vocaloid songs - and when I woke up this one was playing. I don’t know what significance it really was, but the song became a sort of memory of that flight. Weird, huh

[@glassXmoon]

I remember back when this video was first posted was a theory that everybody agreed with, but got buried under the comments over time... ahh I miss it :/ It went like this... The man in the beginning and the end was Len's boss, ordering him to kill Rin's family for the estate money or inheritance. He began with the man by poisoning the wine, nobody knowing who did it. Len then appeared to the family telling them he's a detective, and got away with more murder. He killed everyone, except for Rin, because he didn't want to. In the song before, Len was literally telling Rin the culprit was him the whole time, and Rin pulled a knife, but he stopped it and explained more - how he didn't want to kill her. He was an 'armless' detective because he kills people with his right hand and there's blood all over it.(As seen in some frames where his arm is out) That's all I remember. :3

[@strangentity6144]

Alright! I'll have a go at this with my own theory. In a nutshell: Rin's the real culprit and Len is lying so that the Mystery Man aka the Real Detective won't kill her. *The **_Factual Errors_** that appeared for that split second:* (Remember, these are _errors_, so I’m trying to prove the points _wrong_ or that it means something _different_ than the norm.) > *_"The Culprit is Someone Else."_* - I simply take it as the culprit is *not* someone else other than who we see in the video. (Rin, Len & the Mystery Man) > *_”The Crime in the Morning”_* - Len said that the first victim was alone in the room and that he was destined to die at 12am. (L 0:37) - Yet, there were actually two wine glasses, in the background of (L 0:39) and in (R 0:47) - (R 1:55) Rin asks Len what’s making him anxious while two clocks, one pointed at 12 and another at 4, are in the background. This might mean that Len could be _lying_ about the actual circumstance of the death. - Taking into consideration that Rin also said "Everything (Len) said was a lie" (R 1:28) It could be that Rin was the one who poisoned the first guy. > *_"The Other Detective."_* - Len wasn’t supposed to be the detective _“But his face changed colour and he insisted that he was going to play the role as the detective”_ (R 0:02) probably to prevent the _Real_ Detective from proving that Rin was the culprit. - Rin had said that she _"will solve the riddle in (Len's) place"_ (R 0:58) thus only _seem_ to be the _other detective._ - Rin was questioning about Len being the detective. (R 1:36) since she knows well that he was lying about _The Crime in the Morning._ > *_"The Detective Being the Culprit."_* - My theory is that _Real_ Detective = Mystery Man and that he could not be the culprit because he is probably called in *after* the murders. - _"Because it all happened infront of (Rin's) eyes"_ (L 0:42) In my opinion, I’m guessing that Rin was the one who put in poison into one of two glasses of wine and leaving it to pure chance. If the victim does not take the poisoned one, however, the victim would be stabbed with her knife later instead. By the time Len had noticed what Rin was doing and got close to her, the victim was already dead. As the talked, a test tube of poison had fallen out of Rin’s hands, labelling her as the main suspect. (L 0:44) - Since there were 5 witnesses (L 0:57), Rin was blindfolded 5 times. (R 0:35) while _“(Len) could only kill them one by one, but still couldn't be the culprit”_ (R 2:02). So from here, I interpreted that the term *‘culprit’* is likely used by Rin to identify the person who *poisoned the first victim* rather than the person who killed everyone. OR that she just didn’t want him to be the culprit, I guess? ===== *_Why Len was lying about being the culprit:_* - _“I told him I was the one who was going to do the killing”_ (R 0:02) might mean that the Real Detective had wanted to kill Rin but instead, Len had taken on the title of _‘detective’_ so he could protect her. - _“The one fatal mistake in my plan was the other detective that was dragged to this”_ (L 1:27). Since Len was probably the Mystery Man/Real Detective’s apprentice, he let Len take on the role of the _‘detective’_ for this case. However, the Real Detective was called in after the “strange drownings”. - Seeing as to how we also see the conversation through windows (L 0:59), it could mean that someone was spying on them. Possibly the Real Detective. - _“Even if you don't say the answer, I will answer it for you. The way this crime will end.”_ (L 0:49) It was likely that Len knows that the Real Detective was spying on them and insists on making Rin say he was the culprit, to the point of threatening to kill her and putting on an act of madness. (2:17) - But Rin wouldn’t _“let the crime end this way”_ (R 1:01) and says that _"The atrocious culprit is not (Len)."_ (R 2:19) - As for the _"If a person who can solve this riddle appears, I will trap that person inside this story"_ (3:03). The people who would try solve it would be obsessed about the riddle in the story, so in actuality, they would eventually be trapped in it, I guess? Len can't solve the riddle because doing so would mean Rin is the culprit. Rin won't solve riddles because she knows that she is the real culprit. ==== Ok done! That was way longer that I’d expected. Anyways, credits to Clippy chan for inspiring me to comment my own theory. (And because that theory made the most sense to me ^-^)

[@benoxendine8808]

StrangEntity Wow. Y-you're incredible!

[@strangentity6144]

Rin and Oliver Ehhhhh? Not really..... I'm just playing detective, like everyone else here. But thank you for the compliment. \(^ - ^)/

[@oceaneyessystem]

StrangEntity but then again, if the culprit isn't shown, wouldn't that make *us*, the *viewers* the culprit(s)?

[@strangentity6144]

Sakura Hitoshi Erm, I think you might have misunderstood me.... I meant that since _"The Culprit is Someone Else."_ is a *factual error*, it's a false statement. So the culprit is only one of those who are shown. ^ - ^"

[@HelloKitty-wm7gr]

why were ppl trying to solve this song when it clearly states it will send you to the vocaloid backrooms if you solve it

[@moss8541]

AHH Damn it, Another Kagamine paradox...I WILL FIGURE THIS OUT!....it was kaito. DONE!

[@Trosenses]

+May rose it's always kaito

[@moss8541]

Trosenses 100% of the time

[@sasuketaka199]

+May rose Everyone hates Kaito

[@carniclownz]

+KoopsFanForever I LOVE KAITO

[@kayuriina]

Like the time Kaito disguised as Rin in the Deadly series. Or the prince is Princess of Evil. It's always Kaito!

[@ExoticBankai]

Good song !

[@lilacgemini4820]

IM THINKING TOO HARD

[@helenhong0312]

The culprit is us because we keep pressing the repkay button causing us to keep letting Rin and Len kill.

[@incognitomode893]

+ItzPinkJP 0w0 TRUE

[@montegnovillian6503]

I am glad to see that many people have decided to continue on the legacy of the detectives :) If only Mr.Montero and Mr.Liben was here to read your theories...sad fact that one of them is dead, and another is wounded on duty.

[@theotomeotakuhorrorfan9154]

Here's my theory... Rin and Len are the culprits... When they kill each other in the end we end up being the one's set up for all the murders... Think about it Rin mentions that we (The viewers) are trapped at the end of the song while saying welcome... And Len in his song asks "Who is the culprit?" mentioning it not to Rin but to US... basically he's saying your going to be the one at fault not them... Rin says Len isn't the culprit as Len says Rin isn't the culprit yet Len and Rin can admit to themselves they're the culprit. Len turns towards us asking "Who is the culprit?" with a sinister smile while Rin mentions welcome to us at the end before they both die...

[@Geminilion100]

Nearly 10 years later and I'm still trying to solve it.

[@teaknight1482]

Shot in the dark but here's my take on this. So the person at the beginning of this video is the person who hosted the dinner party. He anonymously hired both Rin and Len to murder everyone there but Len catches on after he sees Rin poison the wine and saves her from drinking the glass which he had previously poisoned himself. Playing the role of the detective, he tries to figure out who had hired the two of them. However, the police arrive and before they can catch both of them, Len tries to take the blame for the murders so that Rin can get away. This is why he tells her to "say his name" and threatens her when she resists. Same for the other way around and why Rin threatens him as well. Shortly after Len is taken away, Rin catches on as well and she tries to solve the mystery because neither of them had actually killed anyone despite having the intention to. The true culprit however is the viewer, we're the one's who killed them and the creator of the song makes is kill them the moment we watch the video. Hence why the detective is also the culprit, as while we're trying to figure out what is happening- we are also the killers.

[@alexrose6252]

I like how after the figure at the end says "This riddle is filled with so much factual errors..." there's a flash of words practically telling us some stuff that was flawed. Like, it says, "The crime in the morning", "The other detective", "The culprit is someone else", and "The detective being the culprit". Its very neat actually, and the speed of the flash would make it hard to catch, so not a lot of people notice it. Maybe this can help someone make a theory or something. *shrugs*

[@stolenwind9126]

The culprit is some one else, the crime in the morning, the other detective, the detective being the culprit. Maybe it means that the culprit is neither Rin nor Len, but the third detective, us as we try to solve this last riddle. Every time we re-watch the story, look back on the evidence, re-tell the story we recount the characters deaths thereby "killing" making us the culprit from the start.

[@th3lostw4nderer]

This song gave me the feel of "guilty"

[@amitks862]

My theory is that the riddle is unfinished but it ends with the detective being responsible. So who ever is the detective at moment is the killer. This would make US the killer as we are the detective at the moment. There seems to be some kind of force controlling the twins, my theory is that it is us forcing them to kill in our minds while we attempt to put together the pieces(us imagining them killing is forcing them to kill) there for making us responsible.

[@faramoon4939]

i think i got it, theres 2 lens and the one with 2 arms poisoned him trying to get the real len arested or killed, rin knowing this stabbed him so she would be the killer, hence the knife was still in her pocket seeing his plan failed he tried to get rid of the evendince by dumping everyone inculding the real len cause he was there into the ocean acept rin because he needed someone to say that he did it.

[@NightWing1800]

You've got wrong! There is one Len; He didn't loose an arm, he kept it hidden. Len knew Rin wanted to kill, and so he became the murder so her life wouldn't be ruined by it. So he killed all the witnesses and is telling Rin to go a blame him.- That is all from the first one, being Len's point of view. This one is from Rin, in which she goes through relizing Len was controlling the scene, and that she doesn't want the case to end because she doesn't want to loose her childhood friend. She refuses to accept that he is the killer, so she will take over as detective; She wants to find another killer and reason why Len would act like he is. Knowing this is impossible the case will never end, and she's content with that.

[@tiffanywells1312]

Actually the killer is........... YOU! You started the video and that killed the man who drank the wine, then everyone else, except Rin and Len where pushed off the cliff. In the Len video he said he that Rin did not kill anyone, but he killed everyone. He warns her to runaway, however Rin said he did not kill anyone, but she did. However knowing Len he will do anything for his sister Rin, even die for her (Servant of Evil). We also have to think that Rin also Len for what he has done (Regretful Messages). Now then lets get back to the point. There was never two Lens, that will not make sense, because they where not triplets, but they where twins. Also most of their songs end sadly... In my opinion in the end it is you, because once you finished the video it is also like killing Rin and Len.

[@NightWing1800]

Tiffany Wells But that overlooks that Rin trying to kill Len and it relies on all the songs being connected. Plus it doesn't go far enough- If you overlook the flaws you could use the comment Rin makes at the end of her song to extend the theory more. About how the song is meant to keep you listening to it and how no one will ever truly discover the truth.

[@tiffanywells1312]

It could also be no one..... or the writer of the song.

[@NightWing1800]

Tiffany Wells It could be- that's the beauty of the mystery. It's open to theories.

[@schmacker101]

"Len" only has one arm but the "detective" she's talking to has 2 and he's talking to her like she witnessed the whole thing when really she was blind-folded. I think the only option is that one of these is not Len, so either Len "saved" her or the other did. And she's just confused between the 2.

[@dacrazjakwabit]

from all the other answers to the riddle i have read this seems to be one of the most closing of them all. It answers most of the questions from this video and its counterpart (the riddler who cant solve riddles) but one question remains.....if there is a "duplicate len" then how doe this video take place in the same setting as the other with this one having the real len? they both take place in the same room. A theory that also might fit is that they are both killers of the two different groups like len killing the man alone in the room but then rin says "if he wouldn't die from the poison he would die from the knife" implying someone tried to kill him after he drank the glass of wine..........so the answer may be they are both killers or there are 2 lens both fit and the answer shall never be truly revealed.

[@dacrazjakwabit]

dacrazjakwabit also did anyone notice (may be a shadow) but at the end when rin and len are on the floor rin seems to have blood on the palm of her hand

[@dacrazjakwabit]

dacrazjakwabit and after posting this comment i re-watched the other video (the riddler who cant solve riddles) and "His" name the detective with 2 arms......no one may know it because he was not the one arm detective.........

[@mohammednawaz8104]

I know the story!

[@aliefamahdi8708]

this banger

[@Ramielalaine]

Why do you always have to feel every bit of single pain, to atone for all your sins And to think you could be the saviour of someones life, When you are feeling so drained to fight In the beginning, it was you Who covered my eyes, every single point of time To be frank, there were always had two bottles of wine But it was absent somehow to that time Even if he didnt die of poison that night He would still find the end of his life by the knife So i will solve the riddle you have been asking the whole time I would never let this solving ended at this event of crime let me solve this rusted curse that we've been trying to solve upon A rudely mean culprit who had made the curse for us tons I couldnt help but to think All the words you had said, is nothing but full of lies At the event of the crime, were you always have the role to be detective from somewhere at that time If thats to atone for your sins It had already be done, so leave it from the past Why do you feel so uneasy, was it the time running fast? Why youre showing expression of terrified? One by one, killing them individually Even all this killing spree, he couldnt be the culprit Ill lean closely as i will have to softly whisper to you So listen closely before i began to stab you thorough I will solve you and the riddle you had been asking all the time "The atrocious culprit was not you all this time!" That time of moment, when you lend me your hand to save Was used to play the piano was i not mistaken? If only i knew at that day would i have insisted not grabbing your hand just for you to play I will make a curse by casting another riddle Will there be someone likely to take the role to investigate At this story, i will lock them here with a theory "Welcome and have fun from this world youll have to live in!"

[@ariadnaarispe]

OK, WE ARE THE CULPRIT BECAUSE WE SAW BOTH OF LEN AND RIN S VIDEO SONGS .DAMMIT( its quite interesting how people develop such interesting theories :D)

[@anis_n]

Legend has it.. no one solved the riddle till this day....

[@minty111]

So I put this on Lens part but I wanted to put it here because I SOLVED IT. It's the simplest shit ever. Rin mentions in that there are two wine glasses. Len poisoned himself too but he's still around, meaning the poison works slowly. Len poisoned the man and left him for a while, then Rin stabbed him and left him to bleed out, not knowing about the poison. HOWEVER, there is no way to know what did him in first... The poison or the knife. So, the mystery is unsolvable. Literally. That's the whole point. If you really want a culprit you could just say it's both of them but that kinda defeats the purpose. Only took me like 3 years to figure out lmao.

[@TehCannibalCookies]

it's been 10 years and i still don't fucking get it

[@Фэяэ]

i feel like my theory is less sraightforward than most, but i'll write it down anyways since that's what we're doing ^^' len was originally not the "detective" of the story, but a pianist hired to play at the mansion rin worked at as a servant. rin was getting mistreated at her job, however, and planned to kill the master of the house, along with anyone else necessary, in order to escape. trying to escape in the evening when most people should have already left or went to sleep, she finds len as the last person in the mansion as he's packing up. she first tries to kill him, but fails, losing her composure as she stabs his arm and he begs for his life. she tries to explain herself and also pleads for him not to rat her out, and he agrees, hiding the injury that would in turn get infected due to improper care and cost him his arm. len, however, is still trying to get rin out of the situation, so he pretends he can still play in order to be invited back to the mansion, and poisons the wine so that she can get away without issue- going so far as to make her leave the room using an excuse so she won't be an accomplice but rin, catching onto the lie and guilty for making him lose the arm that was his livelyhood, instead stabs the guests, hereby stopping his murder in it's tracks so he won't sacrifice more for her. and len gets rid of the bodies to hide the evidence in turn, to which she gets rid of the wine to hide the fact that there was ever poison, etc etc. the "lies" in the song, then, are rin and len trying to straighten out their story for when the cops come, both agreeing that they need to lie so the investigation will be short and they won't be revealed as both being killers- the worst case scenario where nobody wins, but also trying to pin the blame on themselves and protect the other. they both get stuck in a "loop" of hiding and planting evidence, of trying to either trick or convince the other to let them take the blame, because both feel that their life is over after this and are too stubborn to let the other down and anyone else who comes to investigate (in this case us, the people istening to the song) is also brought into this loop as they both change their story over and over, even moreso if they solve the mystery, understanding their dilemma and their attempts to save the other and therefore getting pulled into the loop of trying to help people who are dedicated to dooming themselves

[@ZebraOnYourNose]

I listen to this song when I'm angry... I guess it calms me down?

[@unidorkthekitty6384]

Yeah... I gues it is?

[@amandabloodlust550]

I have a new theroy about these songs. The mystery person is the mastermind of all this and he gets Len in on it. When Len says he'll be the detective, it made the mystery person happy. Rin finds out about everything and tries to stop Len from turning himself in by saying he isn't the one did those things. The two eventually drink the poisoned wine and their spirits are waiting for someone to answer the riddle. But the mystery person says there is no way to find the truth in the story.

[@nathan8546]

My notes from a text file: Rin won't solve riddles: "I told him i was gonna do the killing" [They knew.] "But his face changed color and he insisted that he as going to play the role as the detective" [We play the other song] He hurts himself (one-ARMED) Two wine glasses She will solve the riddle in YOUR place Let her undo the curse on him Curse put on by a mean culprit. (Len always died in songs. The one who makes the song is us) Everything said is a lie. Was he really the 'detective' in the crime? It's done because it's the past He is anxious Could only kill one by one but not the culprit She will solve US The atrocious killer is... not you? [We are not the KILLER. We are still a culprit.] We play the piano (We make music) If a person who can solve the riddle appears, the person will be trapped in the world to solve the riddle (I want to solve the riddle) [YOU know the answer to that question. Because it happened in front of YOUR eyes. Because you are also the culprit] For the story to end everybody must die We don't want it to end The riddle is filled with so much factual errors There is (ALMOST) no chance of me solving it Everybody is the killer

[@OhManThisAccountIsOld]

Alright I've pondered this ever since middle school. While both Rin and Len qualify as the killers, does that exactly make them the culprit however? In the beginning we get to look at the characterization of the culprit, however I believe in that situation it is us the viewers. We replay the video time and time again, making them rekill these people as if we're the ones pulling the strings. However I also believe we are the "other detective" from Len's version as well because we constantly try to solve these riddles coming up with plenty of theories. My thought on this is also strengthened by the fact that Rin mentions if another person who can solve their riddle shows up, that they'll welcome the person to their world. In this case wouldn't it be the videos we keep replaying to solve said riddle? But that's just a theory, a vocaloid theory, thanks for reading.

[@DetectiveRackham]

At the end, they decide that the entire truth shall be hidden with the deaths of them both, and thus does so; with the last two surviving persons, one the culprit and one who loved the culprit, dead, we the detectives now cannot solve this mystery and thus are entrapped in the "story".

[@BelBelle468]

oh. I thought they were just sleeping...

[@GoodNBadGurl]

kagamine stories...always end in tragic

[@BelBelle468]

They are the woobies of vocaloid

[@scissors1111]

Woobies?

[@BelBelle468]

Tv tropes. It's pretty much means that awful things happen to them constantly, so that the viewers feel sorry for them,

[@ruben1475]

I love this song. And the video. The video is a piece of art on its own.

[@adindagunawan9044]

02:09 I know I should be focusing on the song but.. I SHIP IT

[@reiheartfilia4514]

Me too, I ship it so hard!

[@lucasdavidson1482]

3 years later and it's still incest

[@rachelciel3330]

@@lucasdavidson1482 Obviously, you're the uneducated swine here.

[@lucasdavidson1482]

@@rachelciel3330 please educate me, explain how Rin and Len KAGAMINE being together in a ship isn't incest 😬

[@uhanyways9845]

Lucas Davidson i mean technically they aren siblings. theyre both rin. len’s only a male version of rin, so its literally shipping two rins together. i personally dont even ship vocaloids, but i just wanted to be on your side. its not incest or twincest, its literally the same voicebank, just a different pitch and editing. theyre both voiced by Asami Shimoda.

[@solduenasmarques4497]

This is my favorite song.... anyone still watching in 2016...

[@SaltyJun]

Me

[@maroland3961]

Me... But I cannot understand how he suddenly has two arms on the other song. O.o

[@Kat-zh9cn]

+Maroland :3 One theory is that the original Len "died" and became the one-armed detective. Revealing both arms supposedly also reveals his true identity to Rin.

[@maroland3961]

+Kuro Kitten I really appreciate the reply but I've looked into it and seems like this is not the original PV. On the original he has one arm...

[@Kat-zh9cn]

+Maroland :3 Yep! In Haruhana's original song, he has only one arm (we are told). However, it is not specified that he COULDN'T be hiding a second arm, so that's how this artist decided to interpret it.

[@hipsterrin5622]

I LOVED reading The Riddler! So original. I was reading it when Crystal was still writing chapters for it. I'm now reading the sequel.

[@ZaxorVonSkyler]

Man I love Rin's expression, it's all like: Go home Len, your drunk!!! Wait a minute what if he is drunk! That would explain a lot...

[@redruby9564]

2019 and we still didn't solved this riddle X(

[@nagitowokomaeda1730]

*haven't solved

[@hanasakuragi4596]

You know the whole series reminds me of Umineko wherein the killings were in a mansion in an island, Beatrice forcing Battler to say that she was the one doing the murders but he won't acknowledge it, that the mystery will only end if everyone dies, etc.

[@nakarasblade]

The part at 3:29 doesn't matter as this is a fan PV, so only the lyrics should be paid attention to everything in the actual video should be ignored, this is why Len is shown with both arms in the first video when he should only have one. Beyond that the composer has also stated that the songs "Boku ni Piano wo Hika Sete" "Yuki ga Furu" and "Saa, Docchi?" are also also related to the story additionally there is a long version of Nazotoki(Renamed as "The riddler who can't solve riddles" by the PV maker) which includes a "third mystery" not sure if an english translation exists though. Also they wrote a short story which the songs are based on entitled "Umi ha sono nazotoki wo nozomu noka?" though I can't find an english translation of it and it is implied while similar the songs are a slightly different version of the same situation. Anyways that's some fun extra information to help you guys who want to try solving the puzzle, enjoy~

[@littleredexecutioner4366]

YOU are the culprit! Last song, it was the detective! Now, YOU play the role as the detective, clearing that the crimes were done by neither Rin nor Len!

[@yukitsuki1412]

I thought of this some time ago but I want to build on the idea that we are the culprit. Len says there is more than one answer in reference to all of us. The man says he intended on Len being the culprit but he wanted to play detective. Rin comes in saying she is the culprit and anyone who solves it will be trapped. I think in this story Len was just a viewer like us and solved the riddle that he/we are the culprit and therefore got trapped in the story playing both detective and culprit. Just like us. And the reason Len said he would kill Rin and the reason he looked anxious is because the song was ending which means the story is over aka dead. Which is backed up by the man saying everyone must die at the end of the song.

[@sasuketaka199]

I KNOW WHO KILLED THEM. IT WAS MIKU DISGUISED AS THE BUTTER KNIFE! >the more you know

[@ゆきとけ-d9s]

ナゾカケ持ってる。いい話だな〜。

[@theotomeotakuhorrorfan9154]

Also I found this weird wording in this song: The Culprit is someone else: can refer to someone who isn't dead or seen The crime in the morning: The crime took place during the morning hours The other detective: Us (Viewers) The detective being the culprit: All of Us...

[@LumpySpacePrincessEz]

This is my conclusion. Sometime in the past, Len used to play the piano for Rin. At this time, Len saved her from a fire in which he lost his arm. Len's viewpoint: He repeatedly asks Rin who the culprit is, trying to get her to say that it was him. He tries to convince her that she saw him commit the crimes as it happened in front of her eyes. Even if she didn't say it, he'd say it was him anyway. He also wonders if the culprit really was among the people who fell into the ocean or if they were still alive. During his talking, Rin grabs the knife in her pocket and attacks him. However, he knew it was there and knocks it away. He claims that he didn't want Rin to know he was the culprit and asks her to run away from him before he might hurt her. He believed that she was the culprit but wanted to take the fall for her in her place. Rin's viewpoint: Len apparently heard that Rin was going to kill the man. According to her, he plays the role of the detective who needs to 'atone for his sins', meaning another detective must be out there who is the real culprit. She doesn't understand why Len keeps causing himself so much pain trying to protect her, examples being the fire where he lost his arm and also in this case, trying to take the fall for her. He'd blindfolded her to stop her from killing him. She says that even if the man hadn't died by other means, she would have stabbed him anyway. She refuses to believe he killed them so wants to solve the case in his place and she won't let him suffer for her sake. She attempts to stab him in order to end his pain as the riddle can't be solved and the true killer found. She says if there is a person who can solve this (the other detective), she will trap them in their world. As of the 4 clues, here's what I believe: 1. The culprit is someone else - Neither Rin nor Len committed the crimes 2. The crime in the morning - Committed before either of them arrived in the evening 3. The other detective - There was another detective currently attempting to work out this riddle 4. The detective being the culprit - This other detective was the culprit The other detective, the killer is the viewer.

[@granicube6453]

Ok so the main theory here is that we are the killer. But maybe Rin and Len are the same person? The killer would be their complete soul? The only thing that makes it impossible is the fact That Len saves Rin physically though losing his arm :/ I think the author might have put that by purpose for that therory to be invalid 0_0 OH HE SAVED HER BY SAVING HIMSELF HE COULD HAVE DIED, HIS JOB WAS FINISHED So it really makes a lot of sense for me :)

[@cinnamon_coco14]

Someone should make a novel out of this. This story has the makings of a fantastically intriguing book.

[@leonhardt4342]

So I managed to pause 3:29 quickly enough. It says "The culprit is someone else." "The crime in the morning." "The other detective." "The detective being the culprit."

[@helenhong0312]

It's us

[@daejowu4654]

+ItzPinkJP 0w0 You don't have to copy paste that for a billion times ok?

[@skystreets383]

This sort of reminds me of umineko no naku koro ni

[@catmanmenace]

I haven't read Umineko yet but I would love a remake of the PV w Umineko tbh.

[@whiskyofbloodclan]

This was my very first Vocaloid song I heard and that was almost six years ago. I still love it :3

[@aimmefl]

The answer is... Nothing. There is no answer because there is no riddle. They all give you the answer but there's no riddle to support it. Another theory is that... When rin said "the atrocious culprit is not you" she was pointing to the person behind the screen. Len was behind her in his coat facing the opposite direction. As if they were back to back. That means she's lying and you are the culprit. You started the video and you finished it. You killed off every body and your madness turned them into the role of the 'culprits' You are the murderer.

[@mikaujiro]

My theory on this is that Rin is actually the killer, and Len saved her from the fire. He wants to protect her so he claims to have killed the victims and tries to cover up for her. The original detective, I don't know who. But the "other" detective is you, because you are watching the videos and trying to figure out what happened. This is what I think, that is....

[@kyr-kun-chan]

That is, I part that we are that 'other' detective is actually quite logical

[@mysticalmoonlight3643]

Nostalgic song~

[@yuuki_konkon3229]

Me: *watches the video again after how many years just coz I wanna" ................ *Just solved the riddle* ................ Me: Damn.... (The comments though...another damn...)

[@soggybeanss]

MIKU DID IT....mystery solved xD jk

[@benoxendine8808]

Pillow Kun No VY2 did it... no Dell... no Maika... no Oliver... no Miki... no Iroha... no... (A.K.A really dude? Pick the most popular vocaloid? Not angry, just there's others, you know.)

[@soggybeanss]

The Real Rin-Chan I know that. And I just named the first person who came to mind so...

[@benoxendine8808]

I have come to the conclusion... MOTHY DID IT WITH OWATA-P~!

[@soggybeanss]

The Real Rin-Chan GASPPPPP that must be it!!!!!

[@inotaami9984]

Pillow Kun GREEN IS ALWAYS THE ENEMY!!!!

[@DetectiveMazerR]

Thank you, Rackham, for explaning why googling turned up no results for people.

[@nuggie449]

Whatever the riddle is my answer is "SLENDERMAN" !!!

[@swarmrecord9420]

'S PROXIES!!!

[@helenhong0312]

It's us

[@blarg2429]

+NerdyMegumi We're Slenderman?! THEN WHO WAS PHONE?!

[@saragrant9870]

Does anyone else hear Len in the background or is it just me?

[@potato4dawin1]

Rin can't solved the riddle or she'll be killed, Len won't solve the riddle because it means killing her, they draw us into the story to solve the riddle so they can have a happy ending.

[@potato4dawin1]

This is a very difficult riddle and yet I'm convinced that it does actually give us all the details to solve it. The killer was the detective, Len demanded to play the role of the detective, Len suggests there may be more than 1 culprit but Rin explains that Len was not the "detective" or the culprit but also that Len is protecting a terrible person so the suggestion is that Len may have been an accomplice but despite that he's not guilty in the crimes. My theory is that while Len played the role of detective in the first case, he wasn't actually the killer despite the fact that as accomplice to the killer, their plan involved the one playing the role of detective doing the killing, hence why when Rin suggests Len was not the detective, "detective" was in quotation marks. In addition, the 2 glasses of wine suggest a meeting which alludes to the multiple culprits suggestion which makes me think the "murder" was staged and the victim was the culprit in the later murders but the suggestion that "if he did not die by the poison he would have eventually died by the knife" either suggests a different sequence of events or a more complex story involving the same basic premise which makes it incredibly difficult to say for sure. Perhaps Len intended to play the role of detective in the first crime which was staged but an actual detective got in the way and so the plan changed and the culprit whose murder was staged decided to kill everyone but that still doesn't explain everything about the crime in the morning.

[@schmacker101]

The detective is not Len and Len did it. The detective only has one arm. The detective didn't do it so Who's Len and Who's the Detective?

[@YellowWeeaboo]

good point this second song just confuses me more

[@AbbysArchive]

Maybe Len has a clone XD

[@YellowWeeaboo]

most likely :3

[@mohammednawaz8104]

Len Kagamine Sup len my twin :)

[@YellowWeeaboo]

mohammed nawaz Ahaa hey twin :D