Kakuzu vs Pain Is Not A Fair Fight!

[@jiero3253]

Uhhhhh, but his raw durability 🤓

[@wijinsama]

I heard Noodles disliked this video.

[@ExoticZah]

@@wijinsama he did lol

[@JonTheMaven]

He tends to dislike it when people actually make valid points on this topic

[@___________0Z0X]

Is there a video of him reacting to this video? I love watching that guy be a clown lol.🤡

[@spicyboi544]

We are forgetting his RAW DURABILITY is too much for pain

[@Virhtue]

Nah your right, I forgot that wonderful piece

[@217superninja]

But ..but ..but his durability has no anti feats 😢

[@justinmathis8078]

@@217superninjacurious. Does his durability have anti feats?

[@maagic2031]

Diamond Morph, son. It hardens in response to pain-tier attacks. Don’t fuck with this treasurer!

[@JonTheMaven]

Not to be that guy, but the Raw Durability statement was in regards to the edo Third Raikage, idk how it got attributed to Kakuzu over the years

[@nocturne311]

The Two Tails design is probably my favorite of the tailed beasts.

[@RestlessGamblrr]

raw durability negs…

[@Bao-fh7lb]

Not necessarily

[@reptilian_geneticist]

Kakuzu is basically just a lower tier version of Pain... He has all the Heart shadow creatures with different Chakra nature's and abilities, very similar concept as the paths of pain...

[@Virhtue]

Agreed, and even tho he doesn’t beat Pain; he is still certainly underrated and quite crazy

[@reptilian_geneticist]

@Virhtue yeah he basically has 5 lives, along with use of all 5 chakra natures and was very skilled and had lots of experience... He would be a nightmare matchup for most shinobi but is still completely inferior to Pain

[@ExoticZah]

@@reptilian_geneticist I’m glad everyone in this comment section agrees and has common sense

[@QuietRiot3991]

​@@reptilian_geneticistI can agree with that. He was a bounty hunter after all, meaning that in order to excell in a profession that has him hunt high caliber shinobi, he'd need to be quite powerful himself, with only the real legends surpassing him indefinitely e.g. Pain, Itachi, The Sannin, Kage, Other Akatsuki.

[@NonAryanDuck]

Kakuzu went from being fairly rated to super overrated to being severely underrated. Glad Virtue brought us back full circle lol

[@JonTheMaven]

Good video overall. Technically well produced, good audio and editing. I disagree with a few of the technical aspects you mentioned, or rather, if this were in the context of a debate, there are thing people might push back on you to provide more evidence for. But especially for a video explaining the topic in general this does a great job

[@SatorisYT]

Ah, the topic I haven't seen since the Noodles era

[@Virhtue]

Been a while, also we should talk on vc soon

[@joaopaulo3204]

Noodle is a stupid blockhead

[@SatorisYT]

Loved this one!

[@AtenSol12]

The meme will never die in the community

[@UNKNOWNL3G3ND]

Kakazu lost to a guy who ate noodles and the stronger version of whom was having a hard time fighting Pain

[@Rushking20]

Noodles was clearly joking nor did anyone think it was close in fact its just made people underestimate kakuzu severally

[@Virhtue]

Noodles, does genuinely believe this take, and even to defend him. It’s not a terrible take and was initially well formulated

[@Bao-fh7lb]

@@Virhtue I don't get how you can glaze Kakuzu like that he's just one the the sides antagonists of the side antagonists

[@JonTheMaven]

Idk man, have you seen his debate with WeeabooWarrior? He seemed pretty committed.

[@___________0Z0X]

RAW DURABILITY!!!

[@cloversgood_luck9290]

Honestly as the biggest Kakuzu fan, This shouldnt have been a question... Pain Stomps kakuzu. The better Match up In My Opinion is Kakuzu vs Kisame since those two sit comfortably in the middle teir of the Akatsuki

[@BertTooCold_]

Kisame is a tier above kakuzu due to who he fights and his feats kakuzu getting cooked by pre war arc kakashi and pre sage mode naruto tells you he would get cooked by kisame

[@Virhtue]

Ik the same, although I always stand on Kakuzu being underrated

[@kapnkat]

Kisame stomps Pain

[@CWTempest]

@@kapnkatwrong

[@aleclegault5729]

Kisame is in the higher middle tier with orochimaru they are way stronger than the rest below but weaker than the top 3

[@ADM.II.]

Nice vid 👍🏾.

[@imshkth]

He could've just said 'Pain stomps', but Virhtue is a professional.

[@Virhtue]

Hahaha

[@wallywest7800]

The downplay Pain gets is crazy. Why was this even a conversation?

[@1of1MaccSauce]

Honestly disrespectful

[@wallywest7800]

@@1of1MaccSauce Seems to be a theme lately

[@1of1MaccSauce]

@@wallywest7800 finally comes to light , next we wait till they scale PAIN/Tendo up to EMS Madara, Hashirama , and Minato wheather it’s on the lower end or higher then step 2 is to show how Tendo is nowhere near the level of Nagato and how the difference in power is a landslide 😀

[@JonTheMaven]

So the history of this was, WebcamParrot debated SwagKage, claiming that, among other things, Kakuzu beat Bijuu who were "calced at Multi Continental" (lmk if you'd like me to elaborate) put Pain was only Island or Small Country. He argued Kakuzu couldn't be hurt by Pain but could blow him up. Noodles then jumped on the bandwagon, recycled a bunch of Parrot's arguments and had an even longer debate with Swag where he claimed, among other things, that Shikamaru could blitz the six paths. The video blew up and a meme was born. The core arguments are basically that Kakuzu blocked Yugito/Matatabi's paw; Yugito is a "perfect jinchuuriki" which scales her above all "normal jinchuuriki," so Kakuzu is on Perfect Jin level, aka basically Bee's level. His Diamond Morph (which he mistakenly calls Armor) and Jiongu (which he mistakenly calls Jiugone State) give him the durability and AP to negate Pain's attacks. None of that scaling works, and I can break down why if you like, but that's the gist of it.

[@1of1MaccSauce]

@ nobody’s reading this I’m ngl

[@brothsipper-h5o]

Kakuzus a Jiraya victim 💀

[@Virhtue]

Maybe!!!

[@giannixx]

Yes, very much so. He was relative in base to a pre-War Arc Kakashi, who still is inferior to Jiraiya, as is Naruto. Jiraiya would just outscale and overpower him. The hearts aren't very durable, so they would die to Jiraiya's Fire Style or maybe even Jizou Needles (or, if he went into Sage Mode, punches and kicks). He doesn't use Diamond Morph while fused with his hearts, nor in his Jiongu form, who lost badly to Naruto, who at that point was still inferior to base Jiraiya. Jiraiya doesn't have Lightning Style to use the elemental advantage against Diamond Morph, but come on now, Kakuzu is not tanking a Sage Mode enhanced Super Massive Rasengan. And even without granting Jiraiya SM, we've got a Hidan situation. It doesn't matter that Kakuzu is very durable if he can't move while hardened and isn't able to damage Jiraiya either (without his hearts). If he tries to steal Jiraiya's heart, he's taking a Rasengan to the chest, or stabbed by Jiraiya's hair needles. If he plays defensive with Diamond Morph, Jiraiya can use one of his weird unique abilities and trap him inside the toad stomach or something like that. And if Kakuzu is overly defensive in order not to give Jiraiya openings, Jiraiya has time to enter Sage Mode and come on, his durability can only go so far. Kakuzu's skin is not the Yata Mirror. And I'm being fair and not even mentioning Frog Song because Jiraiya doesn't need that to win this.

[@gwthrpain]

jirayia smokes kakuzu mid dif maximum.

[@tyl2322]

@@gwthrpainlow diff in all honesty

[@starslight-x3o]

when the naruto vs battles that include "blank vs. blank is NOT CLOSE" actually isnt close:

[@IgnObsidian]

I really hate it when people ignore Kakuzus RAW DURABILITY, if you actually paid attention to the story smh my head

[@randomguy6152]

Could you possibly do Naruto vs Deidara? Whichever Naruto was equal to the Sasuke that fought Deidara or possibly whichever form Naruto was at when Sasuke fought Deidara

[@joaobrito2874]

I frequently joke around in comment sections about how Kakuzu’s RAW durability negs every high tier in Naruto, and I am surprised on how many people don’t get the joke and think I am crazy. Either Naruto gained a lot of new fans in the last couple of years or I am just old and still remember the Swag days

[@JonTheMaven]

I got you bro, I remember the meme, though I think it was in reference to the edo Third Raikage, just happened to be part of the Kakuzu debate

[@jason15212]

The day the community stops dunking on Kakuzu and Hidan I will smile inside

[@Pandemia616]

You're going to be miserable for a long time 😂

[@ExoticZah]

This might be your most disliked video. Idk why people hate Pain like he’s not one of the best villains in the series. Kakuzu fans are delusional brother Virtue.

[@kgiivmichaelprice5995]

Someone decided to smoke a ramen pack today 😂

[@adel93038]

3:58 Kakashi doest not scale to this version, Kakuzu had to be distracted by Yamato in order for this to happend or Kakashi wouldn't have asked Yamato for help This guy use videogame lol 4:14 Never understood this point, Naruto would have never defeated Kakuzu alone anyway, Kakuzu wherever in base or transformed 9:49 The robot was cut in half 💀 10:05 Based on the manga not at all and anime less but still got overpowered in the taijutsu sequence 10:47 He never implied he could have won if he used Kamui vs Kakuzu, you just dont either know to read or believe Swagkage blindfolded as if he knows everything 11:00 When Kakuzu died, Kisame wanted to see how he was killed + questionned Pain if they could succeed their plan now but even Pain said " I don't know... " wich is more impactful when you read between the lines 11:45 This Naruto was very fatigued due to his 4tails transformation + not the same bcs of his RS training + slightly kyubi amp 12:13 That guy is so dumb, Deidara didnt react to CM2 chidori amp Sasuke since you're showing they both fall in different locations due to their lack of chakra/stamina 15:58 That's so wrong since Kakuzu isn't in the same location as Nagato and Itachi so that's not the case. Nagato + Itachi = forest location while Kakuzu = beach location 16:45 KCM1 Naruto divided by his number of clones, he doesnt scale at KCM1 Naruto full chakra 17:21 It does, simply even for travel speed, you dont agree that Kakuzu ~ Healthy Itachi in travel speed while carrying nagato bcs it's Kakuzu but if it's Deidara you wouldn't have said that, am I wrong ? 18:18 Solide distance = 3 meters xD 18:52 Ah that's now I realise that guy doesnt use his brain, nice, always the weird headcanon scaling to disagree with something factual. Kakuzu does react, was never touched in their battle, end of the line = he scales to fully transformed 2 tails with a mastered jinchuriki 19:26 Then why sometime it works ? lmao that's so stupid So to summerize, anything surprising Kakuzu displays in the manga is wrong and Pain wins without no real arguments. Just saying the manga is wrong lol

[@marwyn8152]

Kakuzu wouldn't even touch blind Itachi. He was considered the strongest man in Akatsuki for a reason. And that was even while he was at his weakest - sick and off his meds.

[@Pandemia616]

Who even thought it would be close 😭

[@ajayimoses2495]

Raw durability that was impaled by 1 chidori 😂

[@grimreaper15]

Dude it's weak to Raikiri... Earth loses to Lightning, so that is irrelevant, but by no means am I saying that Kakuzu doesn't get stomped by pain, because he does get stomped by Pain.

[@ajayimoses2495]

@ I used the above comment as bait I know of dotons weakness to raiton Guess what pain has all 5 😂

[@lucasrangel9150]

Of course it’s not close, what can Pain do with Kakuzu’s RAW DURABILITY?!

[@EternalBrightness3]

Some corrections. 0:53 He's not said to be the strongest Jonin. He's said to be the strongest *ninja.* The 3rd Hokage is a ninja, so that would include him & all those who reside in Konoha. 1:26 Hidan is clearly shown running faster despite carrying a heavy scythe. 2:19 You showed Kakuzu calling Shikamaru quite the tactician (Chapter 332, page 19). 3:13 He can harden his flesh while remaining mobile. It's how he destroyed an Iron wall barrier with a punch (Chapter 314, page 14). 3:55 After Kakuzu & Hidan's defeat, Kakashi said "Naruto you *may* even surpass me"*, implying that he still considered Naruto combatively inferior. (Chapter 343, page 10). Rightly so, he had a Mangekyo & was vastly the better fighter. To add on, Naruto's Rasenshuriken had just been branded a forbidden ninjutsu. 9:53 Kakuzu's Diamond hardening tanked Choji's human juggernaut with total ease (Chapter 333). Meanwhile, the Asura path got flatlined by a Choji and Choza combination punch. The one reason why Lightning blade penetrated Kakuzu's Diamond armor so easily is because it was weak to Lightning. The Asura path wasn't weak to Lightning, hence it surviving Lightning blade for a short while, but it's generally a lot less durable than the Diamond hardening. 12:21 He didn't react to Sasuke. Sasuke obviously wasn't trying to kill him with a full speed Senjutsu amped Chidori as he needed Deidera alive for questioning. He instead deactivated his Chidori & Curse mark, and pretended to have been caught by Deidera's C4 only to surprise attack him with a punch whilst he was off-guard (Chapter 361, page 10).

[@JonTheMaven]

Love comments like these. I appreciate the detail and thoughtfulness. I disagree with a couple of points, though, there are some inaccuracies. 1. Yes, he's referred to that way in the first data book, but idk if that really makes sense. He seems terrified by Orochimaru, who was relative to Hiruzen. There may be an argument there that Hiruzen is stronger; the databooks aren't gospel. 2. The fact that Hidan is currently in the lead doesn't necessarily mean he has a faster overall run speed than Kakuzu, or that his movement speed is slower overall. 3. Correct, this is Kakuzu remarking on Shikamaru's analytical abilities. 4. The third databook clarifies that he loses mobility in which ever of his body parts he hardens. So, against Chouji, it looks like he may have hardened his whole body, in which case, he wouldn't be able to move his body at all. 5. Correct, and the direct citation is appreciated, but these two statements aren't mutually exclusive. Kakashi's internal monologue may reveal that he considers Naruto to have surpassed him in some ways, or perhaps specifically with the Rasen Shuriken; but he's not necessarily going to tell him that outright. 6. You are leaving out some important details about the Asura path. It skewered Kakashi's lightning clone, which then shocked it directly. While it was actively stunned/rooted, Chouza came in from above and slammed it into the ground with an expansion punch (ch 422). It was still alive, as it jumped in to intercept Kakashi's Raikiri, which didn't fully pierce its chest. Then, being sandwiched in between Kakashi and Tendo, Tendo uses Shinra Tensei on them both at point blank range. That ST is enough to wound Kakashi and pin him under rubble; it also pushes back and wounds Chouza and multiple other chuunin/jounin at the scene. (ch 423) And after all that, the Asura path is not technically fully destroyed, as it's able to "talk" and fire off a missile before expiring. (ch 424) It's way more durable than people give it credit for; "Kakashi killed it with a Raikiri" lol no 7. ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ok sure

[@EternalBrightness3]

@@JonTheMaven Likewise, I appreciate the response but again, somethings need to be cleared up. 1) Kakashi being afraid of Orochimaru is a common misconception. In order to instil fear in Kakashi, causing him to second guess his capabilities, Orochimaru used a Genjutsu to have him imagine his head being cut off (Chapter 70, page 3). He did the same to Sasuke & Sakura in the forest of death, except they had Kunai sticking through their heads. Sasuke described it to be an illusion/Genjustu (Chapter 47, page 9). They didn’t show Kakashi’s sliced head in the anime for some reason, probably to keep it PG. Anyway, he wasn’t afraid. After the Genjutsu wore off, Kakashi was prepared to encounter Orochimaru again incase he sought after Sasuke for another round who was on bed rest, but it happened to be Kabuto instead. (Chapter 88). And whether or not the uploader agree's with the declaration, it's still misinformation to claim he was regarded the strongest Jonin. 2) That was just one example. Hidan managed to keep up with Kakashi in a Kenjutsu battle despite wielding a heavy scythe, which is no easy feat. Conversely, Kakuzu barely kept up with Kakashi in a Taiutsu exchange without burden (he had to hyper-extend his arms with threads to gain the upper hand In the anime). Based on this, it's safe to say Hidan was faster. 4) The manga is ofcourse more credible than the databooks. And in the manga, Kakuzu is shown moving with the Diamond hardening active more than once. This is yet another example (Chapter 332, page 11-12). 5) That's headcanon. From what we can infer from the manga, Kakashi considered Naruto combatively inferior at that time. And it's very obvious that Naruto was. From closely analyzing their feats, I learned that Kakashi wasn't even surpassed by Sage mode Naruto. 6) I may have left out details but I did that because my point would still stand, Kakuzu is more durable. His Diamond hardening was said to be invulnerable to physical attacks with the exception of Lightning style (Chapter 333, page 15). The Asura path wasn't invulnerable to attacks hence it collapsing after connecting with a few jutsu. Outside of the Lightning clone & Lightning blade, the Diamond hardening would effortlessly tank every jutsu you listed that the Asura path did and more.

[@JonTheMaven]

@EternalBrightness3 this is the kind of discourse I wish we had more of in this community. I appreciate the thoughtful and evidence based replies

[@Golden_Raijin]

I can't even believe people are still putting Kakuzu up against Pain... I mean, the answer has been obvious for years, it still isn't fair... I feel so sorry for the poor Kakuzu fans who have to put up with this tremendous lowballing...

[@Arcadia_warlic]

1:01 his close-arm combat in Part II is actually the strongest in Konoha in general. 9:40 It probably would have torn through it if Kakashi was not blown away with a Shinra Tensei, as Kakashi notes he needs to land in time (which it did not). Not exactly a durability feat, there. 12:30 This is all moot as Deidara noted Sasuke's flight was compromised when he blew off one of his wings, which is still the case, here, as one of them is snakes. A jump might not be comparable to flight, either, especially the compromised flight. 16:50 The Susanoo does not require the Mangekyō to use, it just seems like they prefer to do so. Itachi's actual movements do not get faster, but yes they are not immediately forced to go all out, they just automatically counter whatever is in front of them.

[@kodoqbesar4301]

Kakuzu stomps Pain because of that *raw durability* . His *raw durability* allows Kakuzu to gain any glaze and get stronger like Altair from Re Creators

[@Virhtue]

Ahh yeah

[@drewaguas2291]

I don't think we are taking into account his raw durability here

[@1of1MaccSauce]

@virhue why do you think Obito is over pain because I have a good reason for this lineup ⬇️ Healthy Nagato (WM No Gedo) Obito Healthy/Edotachi Pain (Sick)Itachi (OM)Obito

[@QuietRiot3991]

Pain's Shinra tensei counters Obitos Kamui seeing as he can't exactly phase through an intangible, gravitational attack.

[@lexogun1311]

​@@QuietRiot3991WTF? Don't Naruto fans have common sense anymore or most of you just watch the show on shorts or reels? Obito is way faster than nagato and he would kamui regardless of a shinra tensei because he sends his body into the other dimension and he's literally intangible which means no physical attack can touch him while kamui is active but WTF did you get the idea that shinra tensei counters kamui like it's not a physical attack. Damn!

[@lexogun1311]

What good reason do you have for your lineup because it's a bit controversial lol

[@1of1MaccSauce]

@ not really did you know Nagato was studying obitos kamui? & He was the one who learned about the 5 min intangibility OM is fair game buddy , pain is just too much for him to deal with everything obito does only leads him into a corner or he gets whiplash from his own abilities 😭😭😭

[@1of1MaccSauce]

@@QuietRiot3991 delete this comment as a Nagato fan this is just …. Pathetic.. honestly we have so many different options to choose from and this is all you can conjure up??

[@giannixx]

17:18 Ooh, so does this mean War Arc Kakashi isn't as fast as Minato just because they were moving at the same pace in one panel when trying to intercept Black Zetsu? Or that KCM Minato isn't necessary as fast as SM KCM2 Naruto just because their Kurama avatars were moving at the same pace while attacking Juubito with a combined Rasengan, specially since the previous panel indicates that it was Kurama blocking the counter attacks so that Minato and Naruto could solely focus on the offensive, and that combined jutsu require the stronger person to adjust their chakra levels to match those of their partner? Oh, interesting. (Btw this isn't an attack on you Virhtue, I'm just using your argument as a hook to counter those scaling arguments I've seen people use and that I don't think are accurate).

[@Bruh-ff3sq]

Are you comparing traveling in a formation to simultaneous attacks in combat? Lmfao Zetsu called Minato and Kakashi equals when he said both of them will strike me down if I detach.

[@ProbablyRiku]

Kakuzu is Naraka Path Fodder. Bro is getting pieced up by the White Mage. 💀💀💀 As cool as Earth Grudge Fear and by extension Kakuzu is, he unfortunately came into the manga before the HUGE POWERSPIKE before Naruto Learned Sage Mode, and Sasuke Killed Itachi. How techniques and feats were written from those points forward took a clear and marked departure from the relatively tame powers that preceeded. Had Kakuzu only been introduced as an Edo, I promise you that he would have been able to assimilate Kekkei Genkai, instead of only the 5 basic elements. Then, and only then would he pose any serious threat to Pain. What can you do. Great video! 🎉

[@___________0Z0X]

The real question is how many paths would it take to beat him? I’m thinking two.

[@Codetrey]

I got nagato original body winning 🙏🏻😹

[@Xanax88653]

i used to see debaters debate this and i used to be so confused on how it was ever a convo

[@fxcjxfyjxjyyyyyy]

fun fact the famous debate never brought up kakazus "raw durability"

[@Virhtue]

That was for Parrot vs Swag and I think I was talking about the third Raikage if I remember correctly

[@fxcjxfyjxjyyyyyy]

@@Virhtue exactly

[@asura980]

Gotta be rage bait no way are we comparing someone who took down the strongest village in the verse by himself to early shippuden fodder

[@itsgav2334]

Naruto admitted inferiority to Sasuke but Sasuke also admitted inferiority to Naruto. That’s the whole reason why Sasuke felt the need to take Itachi’s eyes

[@shadowmomochiuchiha6839]

Raw durability laughing in the corner

[@catodela7297]

9:59 only in the anime like aside from shikamaru nobody in the manga actually outspeeds him they outplay him🤷🏻

[@kakuzugoated873]

1. Naruto never showed relativity to Kakuzu, he caught him off guard, and then somehow caught him offguard the same way, they state this. And we know Kishimoto rushed the ending for that arc, so its not some conspiracy. 2. The 3rd databook says Kakuzu is one of the deadliest members and Pain is only ever directly warned after Kakuzu dies but not with Deidera, so your Kisame deidera point wasn't too relevant. 3. Pain just negates Kakuzus diamond armor and can damage him regardless of getting too in detail about their scaling, GGs. Its not really relevant who has better physical stats, as Raikiri negates diamond armor, but so does Shinra tensei. And its omnidirectional. Even with war scaling, Sage Naruto should scale to early Kcm Naruto in speed when he fought pain still. So Kakuzu war arc speed meta falls flat too.

[@JonTheMaven]

Just some thoughts: 1. You don't need to say "somehow caught him off guard," it's clear what happened. Naruto used three shadow clones as a diversion and flanked Kakuzu. The second time, he baited him and got Kakuzu to underestimate him. People try to say "he caught him off guard;" Naruto made the clones right in front of Kakuzu's face then performed a very simple flanking maneuver. If that's all that takes to catch him off guard, that's a massive anti-feat for a supposed genius 90 year old bounty hunter. And Pain could do the same thing. 2. "One of the deadliest" isn't something that's given a precise definition, so it's really difficult to use it meaningfully in debates like this. Pain can also be even more deadly without making this statement a contradiction. 3. Probably yeah lol. But I don't think Shinra Tensei does it, it doesn't eat up chakra or turn off ninjutsu per se, it "nullifies" them by pushing back incoming attacks. But it wouldn't necessarily turn off a lightning cloak or knock a character out of the Gates.

[@kakuzugoated873]

@JonTheMaven 1. That's exactly the point, it makes zero sense unless you wanna say that's less predictable than the plan Shikamaru made to shadow bind hidan and kakuzu. Almost like my first point was that him being forced to rush the arc gave Kakuzu a weak loss that makes no sense based on the literal statements of him being too strong, fast, and smart for everyone. 2. Nope, Kakuzu is mostly a brawler. Not really hard to grasp what that means. His main strengths are his wide array of elemental jutsu and his durability. His best technique is also the use of his tendrilsas an extension of his body when he fuses with his hearts. 3. Nope, it's directly stated shinra tensei negates jutsu, unless we're going to say shinra tensei is stronger than Rasenshuriken, but coincidentally does no damage to sage Naruto. Especially with how it's said it uses all 5 nature's. If you don't think it negates diamond armor then that's a really bad matchup against Pain, Pain would need chibaku tensei. Which he would win with obviously but I don't think he'd use it on a non jinchuriki.

[@JonTheMaven]

@kakuzugoated873 I do agree Kakuzu got done dirty and I would like to have seen a fuller power version that got to flex more. That being said he was brought back during the war and didn't have very impressive showings then either...

[@kakuzugoated873]

@JonTheMaven What? He barely had screen time. He got offguarded once in the war, he was weakened and had none of his strong hearts, and the only straight up feats he has is similar running speed to edo Itachi and easily dodging darui. While he was alive he had really good feats minus the Naruto diversion bs. I still don't get how Naruto who wasn't as smart as Kakashi or Shikamaru tricked him to this day.

[@JonTheMaven]

@kakuzugoated873 oh what I was saying was, Kishimoto had a chance to bring him back and explore his character more in the war but we didn't see much of him, sadly. And that's a missed opportunity IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's super strong, especially among pre war characters. And an interesting and well designed character. I'm just acknowledging that our time with him felt cut short. Just like with Kimimaro

[@moronicgenius8971]

Anyone who doesn't think Pain slams him has no reading comprehension. Sometimes the simplest answer is just the correct one but we really had people like Noodles and Parrot tweaking saying all kinds of bullshit about Kakuzu scaling to people who Pain would no diff

[@vendettabout2runup347]

Did you guys do war arc Kakashi versus the sixth paths of pain?

[@ExoticZah]

We all know the answer. People downplay Pain for agenda. Kakuzu and Hidan struggled against 10 leaf shinobi. . Pain flattened the entire leaf village full of more and stronger fighters.

[@chicken29843]

It's honestly stupid because pain no diffs kakashi, and kakazu and kakashi were relative. I feel like it's incredible this was even a debate at all

[@ExoticZah]

@ Tbh at that point I feel like Kakuzu was superior to Kakashi but like you said they were at least relative because Kakashi could counter some of his attacks. But in an actual 1vs1 Kakuzu takes the edge. (Pain would honestly slap both of them at the same time lmao)

[@owensilva9224]

Yo when's the boruto video releasing

[@ZelZ-.-z]

I wonder since one of Sasuke's wings were Snakes and I feel like the Jump or Fly Chidori's wouldn't they be better off a possible Body Flicker or foothold like how Sasuke has focused Chakra into his feet to use a Bodyflicker or enhanced Jump before against Haku.

[@tylerm01]

Hanzo vs The Akatsuki, GET ON IT!!!! Love the vids. P.S. Each individual path of pain slams the shit out of Kakazu

[@Virhtue]

Dude it’s written down trust, I have to bring back my Hanzo findings

[@tylerm01]

@Virhtue Nah you good just don't do my boy dirty, you know Pain straight said prime Hanzo would beat him no 🧢

[@oscarperez5539]

Why do you think individual pain paths slam kakuzu?

[@tylerm01]

@@oscarperez5539 They all scale to Sage Naruto in speed while Kakazu scales to a Naruto without even a cloak and they all have abilities to deal with him

[@ExoticZah]

Noodles is very delusional or very smart by profiting off being disingenuous

[@GlizzySan]

Idek how this is debatable Kakazu has absolutely no answers to any of pains abilities and pain counters him perfectly

[@tybhefner4149]

Yeah i never got why this was ever a thing, kakazu would of got folded immediately if he attacked the leaf by himself.

[@chicken29843]

I mean I feel like this is pretty simple, pain no diffs kakashi in the pain Arc. KAKAzu and kakashi were clearly relative to each other even if there's a slight edge to kakazu

[@Robbieuchiha]

I always thought pain beat kakuzu and never thought it was close but I don’t like that over the years the community has downplayed kakazu and acted like he’s the second weakest akatsuki member after hidan I think he’s in the same tier with deidara and sasori mid tier akatsuki and I don’t think the gap between those three is as big as people think I think deidara is the strongest then kakuzu then sasori but there all pretty close in stats

[@marcus7984]

The meme lol Raw durability tho

[@Virhtue]

I know, I don’t even want to include it bc that’s shits been overplayed😭😭

[@oscarperez5539]

Who invented that meme lol

[@bigchefdylan4802]

Lord Dodai vs the zombie duo who you got

[@GeneFOX70]

In all fairness, Nagato went out of his way to use Tendo to fight Kakuzu meaning he thought the Asura, Preta, Animal, Naraka, and Human path weren't individually strong enough to fight Kakuzu.

[@Virhtue]

Are you referencing the games or meaning to say Kakashi, for the manga

[@GeneFOX70]

​@@VirhtueYeah Storm's Creation Of The Akatsuki

[@QuietRiot3991]

​@GeneFOX70 Just because Pain started with Deva path does not automatically mean he thought the other paths wouldn't be enough. Using that logic, why did he start with Animal path against Jiriaya? Did he not think Deva or the others would be enough?

[@randomguy6152]

If Kakuzu wasn't capping about fighting Hashirama then he lowdifss

[@paige2783]

Virhtue will never let us forget that Itachi did three backflips before Bee had finished his surprise attack 😭

[@Virhtue]

I mean, bro it’s lowkey crazy😭

[@paige2783]

@Virhtue It IS lowkey crazy that he could pull that feat off against a Raikage level fighter, but also I swear to god I hear you say it every other videi

[@giannixx]

Before watching the video: "Ahh shit, here we go again..." But wait, in the secret novel totally written by Kishimoto and not just with his supervision, it is revealed that Kakuzu almost killed teen Hashirama, and he also was stronger than Mukai Kohinata. Therefore, Kakuzu MUST be above Pain. Raw Durability Fist gg.

[@JonTheMaven]

Also in one of the novels that I will not quote or reference or even mention the title of, Kakuzu detected a smell genjutsu and immediately dispelled it which means he has complete resistance to genjutsu and soul manipulation techniques and mind hacks and he's just so cool you guys

[@Sednoob]

Who the hell thought it was a fair fight ? Naruto entered his fight against Kakuzu and Pain in kinda a similar maner (after some previous fight from the akatsuki member, with a new power up), except the Naruto who fought Pain was WAY stronger. It seems kinda obvious that Pain is a least a tier ahead of Kakuzu. Just put Naruto Sennin against Kakuzu and see the absolute devastation Naruto will unleash on Kakuzu to see how much stronger Pain was.

[@IlmaliklI]

u just tried to state that kakashi is relative to waterfall Naruto and then that kakuzu is relative to that same kakashi even tho their fight is like a 6v1 and this scaling still doesn’t mean kakuzu gets stomped cuz kakashi did well enough against 2 paths that if I imagine 4 chakra constructs running around kakashi and the ability to harden whenever he wants while having his justu’s potency doubled since kakuzu’s lightening attacks can cancel out 2 lightning blades his only threat is the preda path almighty push and the soul stealer

[@ryankohler481]

who the hell watched naruto and thought kakuzu beats pain lmaoo

[@Virhtue]

Too many people, unfortunately

[@JonTheMaven]

it's a series of edgy arguments based on memes and misunderstandings

[@ryankohler481]

@@JonTheMaven 🤣this man was out here doing chores for pain

[@JonTheMaven]

@@ryankohler481 but but he momentarily blocked yugito's paw though

[@yurrrrrrr9238]

the legitimacy of this topic has been dead for a while now

[@Virhtue]

That’s why I wanted to bury it

[@polyetic]

I think Jiraiya could have beaten Pain if he had as much intel on Pain as Pain had on Jiraiya

[@CH1C4N0444]

Everyone knows Kakuzu slams. The real new topic that needs to be discussed is Sasori vs. Pain, but it's also pretty blatant: Pain loses The REAL discussion needs to be: Kakuzu vs Sasori: The Pain Slayers

[@Virhtue]

This is just…just…

[@CH1C4N0444]

@Virhtue I'm looking forward to seeing those videos 🙏

[@JonTheMaven]

I'm so upset

[@RA1JIN07]

tired kekashi rival and below base naruto speedster vs sage mode naruto beater

[@VampireQueen696]

Kakuzu is strong dont get me wrong but dude...pain beats him with at most little difficulty and im being generous here

[@abk.gmt713]

Virthue with another banger🔥❗️

[@sbthesage2100]

Such a rat topic. That’s why no one will go near it with a 10 foot poll nowadays

[@andreihlen7597]

What is even this? Has this ever been a discussion?

[@JonTheMaven]

Unfortunately. It's basically a meme started 4 years ago with some edgy scaling that I guess won't go away.

[@genius3121]

Who thought this was close

[@Virhtue]

Numerous creators like Noodles for example

[@SlugSage]

Part one Tenten vs Hinata

[@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoap]

low-key pain > sage naruto > kakuzu > 6 tails naruto because raikiri >>>> that fraud's bijuudama came to me in a dream once 💯💯💯

[@Virhtue]

Why so

[@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoap]

@@Virhtue one gets tanked by a path of pain and v2 jinchuriki. the other nearly destroys two paths of pain, and can chop apart an edo v2 jinchuriki. kakuzu/pain fight kakashi and war arc kakashi might not actually be that far apart. bro might still be a preta path victim, but i gotta look into it a bit more.

[@Sweetlesishere]

Kakazu is a literal fraud

[@javierblease4118]

That lightning blade is off guard though which would make it easier but pain still stronger. But tbh I have never seen sasuke stronger or faster than naruto. And Naruto just kind of says he’s stronger to acknowledge him. Naruto with zero tails beat deidaras ass with 1 punch and speed blitzed him if you pay attention naruto made two clones and speed blitzed him punched him once and he substituted with clay because he was scared and he was bleeding and ran away. Naruto also was completely unphased when sasuke seemingly blitzed him and just stood there as if it was nothing and he was going to fight him and this is nothing special he I think he even grabbed sais sword I don’t remember tho

[@Virhtue]

Hebi Sasuke perception blitzes Base Naruto?

[@javierblease4118]

@@Virhtue yeah at around 11 on the vid you said cm2 sasuke would be leagues above 3tails naruto and he perception blitzed naruto but it doesn’t seem naruto is phased and is in fact ready to fight him. No hate good video just questioning it also when naruto encounters deidara in 0 tails he performs a better speed feat than sasuke meaning sasuke cannot be faster that’s what I’m saying

[@arminsatari7408]

Both eats tobirama for their breakfast i doubt that tobirama can pass zetsu lol (zetsu wins more times than not) But im sure he would lost to hidan and above

[@NarutosRasengan5]

This whole video is nonsense everyone already knows Kakuzu is the pain slayer he literally slaps that purple eyed fodder through raw durability alone

[@jaema8281]

Kakuzu claps Pain

[@randy89555]

In the dreams, after he's sucked to chibaku tensei

[@ADM.II.]

No he doesn't, pain wins, mid diff.

[@boilingman972]

Why does ppl even debate about fictional characters 💀, get a life my dudes

[@JonTheMaven]

Debates/analysis can lead to a deeper understanding and appreciation of the source material. And it's fun to engage with others who are passionate about something you enjoy

[@Etanki]

Noodles will never escape his stupid Naruto takes 😂

[@JonTheMaven]

He doesn't seem to want to anyway. A couple months ago in that Seth video he claimed, again, that the Sharingan can see across the whole universe and Naruto is Universal. His most recent video is him screaming abuse at another debater after failing to land edgy Chouji arguments, recycled from a year ago, and failing to understand basic power scaling terms like mountain level years into making content. He's well aware his best path to views is just making noise and causing a scene

[@JayLargeAfro]

No views in 30seconds? Fell off

[@oscarperez5539]

I keep seeing these comments everywhere.. is this sarcasm lpl

[@JayLargeAfro]

@oscarperez5539 it is lol

[@Steckdose_]

I was actually hoping this was a Shitpost, completely ignoring every common sense and the usual scaling on the channel (See all the Akatsuki Gauntlet Videos) and making out why Kakuzu would bully Pain lol

[@Virhtue]

I have some funny topics like that for April fools, maybe “the seven ninja swordsmen vs Hashirama”

[@rais6036]

Not fair because kakuzu destroys Pain

[@Virhtue]

Why?!?!

[@spit-fire]

Band for Band, kakuzu undefeated

[@Virhtue]

I’ll agree, I’m a Kakuzutard on the low

[@JonTheMaven]

thats the only place kakuzu winning, at the bank

[@QuietRiot3991]

Kakuzu vs Kisame is more like it!

[@aleclegault5729]

@@QuietRiot3991 kisame stomps 10/10 are you joking lol? Kisame absorbs every attack and gets stronger. Plus kisame speed blitzes Kakuzu before he has time to fire a jutsu.

[@jason15212]

This wasn’t necessary man chill in my boy lol

[@jaredgreathouse3672]

Beyond unfair.

[@LauGman]

The Deva path alone could probably take down Kakuzu

[@sinoxilurk4126]

probably? deva path neg diffs kakuzu. a probably is each individual path of pain beating kakuzu

[@GeneFOX70]

That literally how Pain recruited Kakuzu

[@atcandotherthings4985]

Vs battle ideas, might guy vs 3.rd raikage, bee vs pain in both Jirayas and Naruto’s place, danzo vs war arc gaara, team guy vs pain, in Naruto’s place, early kakashi vs possessed gaara, pre war arc guy/kakashi vs team taka or hebi

[@theSageofFire]

Pain wins with taijutsu alone

[@Virhtue]

Probably

[@ashuprice9719]

Nah he would get clapped

[@JonTheMaven]

Dygo made a video arguing the Animal path alone would solo. fr, a dog that endlessly respawns + the chameleon can hide the animal path so Kakuzu can't detect it. Done.

[@reganbobcat]

Kakuzu would off beat kakashi and that if he didn't get sneak attacked by kakashi and loose his best heart his earth heart

[@Solkage885]

Kakashi countered the earth heart bro

[@yurrrrrrr9238]

yep and people act as if kakashi used kamui on pain too smh if he can perceive the devas movements a kamui to his dome would have him slumped

[@reganbobcat]

@Solkage885 only because he got him by surprise if he did that as a direct attack to kakuzu and not surprise kakuzu would of countered as he is faster then kakashi like when he o8cked him after getting up from his earth heart being destroyed plus he was so quick kakashi with his 3 tome sharingan could not perceive him

[@randy89555]

Kamui and GG

[@reganbobcat]

@randy89555 depends on the version of kakashi as tye one that fought kakuzu took a while to do kamui so it could be dodged slightly so only his arm gets taken and he could easily keep fighting or reattach it with his threads

[@nwk1626]

since when did we start thinking the bounty hunter would lose to the konohamaru victim!?!?

[@randy89555]

After he lost to pre sage mode base naruto lol. Tendo pain no diffed sage mode naruto. Make conclusions

[@Virhtue]

Wwwwww

[@JonTheMaven]

on the off chance this isn't a troll, please understand that Konohamaru didn't kill the Naraka path, he just knocked it back, it got right back up after and resurrected the Asura path. Just being clear since this comes up a lot and people are confused about the feat

[@sinoxilurk4126]

kakuzu obv negs, he fought hashirama and survived, did pain fight hashirama? yeah didnt think so COCK MAN FOR THE W

[@ZelZ-.-z]

AHAHA!

[@SirJuul]

True, Pain One Shots.

[@passingshadow2392]

And before Noodles watching it on stream with a debunk coming lol

[@Virhtue]

Noodles has been gone, but I always welcome smaller creators