Kandra or Sleepless? | WAT 25-26 | Lost in Roshar Ep. 60

[@SarcasmFiend23]

Sja Anat in this chapter got me thinking about the “truth” half of the book title. What if she was once the concept of truth in the same way that the stormfather was the wind etc, and that’s why she’s the keeper of secrets, and why she “gives eyes”, etc. so she’s the twisted version of the truth now. Which makes me want to figure out what all of the other unmade would be, but that’s all I’ve got

[@lachlankidd6517]

I kind of got obsessed with this theory a few chapters ago (even pre-Night reveal), and I'm still split on whether there are 10 'elements' or if there are fewer with multiple Unmade of each. I did a bit of a deep-dive though and the obvious (imo) are: 1. Chemoarish = Dust (sometimes called the Dustmother) 2. Sja Anat = Truth 3. Re Shephir = Midnight Essence (or potentially Night) 4. Ba Ado Mishram = Spren (as another comment here says, Gods of Spren were talked about alongside those of Stone and Wind in the Eila Steele) 5. Dai-Gonarthis = Water (He has similarities to Cusicesh (which seems like a water-spren) and the name The Black Fisher) Ones I've assumed based on other obvious/implied elements and by assuming each Unmade also aligns with a specific Radiant Order/Surge: 6. Moelach = Light (some form of anti-Night makes sense, would fit with the Surge of Illumination because Moelach has future-sight, only seen with Renarin who has corrupted Illumination powers) 7. Ashertmarn = Gravity (A stretch tbh, but Revelry is kind of anti-law, so it could be a corrupted skybreaker/gravitation equivalent and Sanderson has a suspicious amount of Gravity-related descriptions) This leaves Nergaoul (Thrill) and Yelig-nar (Armor dude), and potentially the elements of Stone and Plants/Gems/Metal/Something else (I don't think there is a Wind Unmade, hence the inability for Fused to use Adhesion)

[@SarcasmFiend23]

@ I love where your head is at here. I would say that re-shephir is more closely related to illumination though. Since she’s about shadow and stuff, it feels like the unmaking of Light, or illumination. I can see the ashertmarn/law relationship when you say law instead of gravity, lol. I’m a bit iffy on some of them, but I think we’re theorizing in the right direction. Also, nothing says that all of the unmade have the same origins, so some of them could be this, others might not be.

[@lachlankidd6517]

​@@SarcasmFiend23 Yeah, Re-shephir does make a lot of sense with Illumination (due to Shallan's reaction to it, etc.), I honestly forgot that someone else had brought this up when I had shared a similar theory earlier. Moelach is a bit of a mystery then, because I don't think he can be Truthwatcher/Progression (because it seems like the domain of Sja-anat), but I guess its also possible that all/multiple corrupted Spren/Unmade have some form of future-sight, with Renarin being the only example so far. Something I also forgot to bring up is that we know of three of the Unmade's associated Polestones - the Gem they are imprisoned in (Brandon changed one of them in a revision so its implied they are important). Nergaoul is trapped in a Ruby - associated with the Dustbringers and Soulcasting Fire (a strange connection - but this implies that somehow the Dustmother is not directly associated with the Dustbringer Surge) Yelig-nar is trapped in an Amethyst - associated with Willshapers and Soulcasting Metal (interestingly Willshaper spren/Reachers have a metallic form) BAM is trapped in a Heliodor - associated with Bondsmiths (good evidence) and Soulcasting Meat/Flesh

[@mariaclaravieirafernandes6176]

i think there's something about nohadon and tanavast. maybe T somehow gave up the shard of honor and became N. their descriptions kinda match, except for hair colour! also, the return of the way of kings epigraphs talking about "giving up on your duty granted by the almighty" adds one more piece to the puzzle

[@prestonhart5927]

Long time viewer. I feel bad because I have not been listening/watching the podcast about WAT because I don’t want spoilers. But man do I have a back catalogue to come back to when it’s released.

[@adamborst]

I'm re-reading Rhythm of War right now, well audio, and I just hit a part where Wit had discovered that a cremling had replaced his pen and was spying on he and Jasnah and their conversation mentioned that at least one Sleepless was aligned with or had joined the Ghostbloods. Who's to say that there aren't multiple cremling hordes/swarms aren't spying!

[@amandadamatta_]

Jimmy, shallan’s mom is definitely not dead 👀 if shallan REALLY “caused the desolation” it was because she killed her mom, and her mom, the herald, immediately came back to roshar, betraying the oathpact! 👀👀 she’s hanging out somewhere around the planet!

[@jasonbailey9139]

Navani is going to become Cultivation and Dalinar is going to become Honor and Gavilar will be haunted by the fact that people he wrote off both achieved what he could not.

[@codywatkins17]

I’m kind of with jimmy. I think there is another Shallan personality. But, I think the other one we don’t know about is the OG personality and the shallan we know was created after she killed her mom

[@christianjrb]

Oh man... What if the timeskip consists of most of Adolin's family disappearing for ...however many years. And they come back to him as a full blown tyrant / warlord.

[@madalynnr9940]

A couple thoughts I had about the Nohadon epigraph - the story sounds like it happened after The Way of Kings was written otherwise why would the people think he was this incredible King that cares about the people. As for being granted kingship by the almighty I think has to do with him being a bondsmith making him King

[@SkyDiving_StormTrooper]

You guys never heard of Jim Butcher? He had two awesome series. The Dresden Files and the Codex Alara series fits your criteria. Both have been around for a while. The Dresden Files is going to be 20 some books just itself and there are half a dozen or more in the other. If you like Cosmere you'll like those, I promise you. With Dresden be patient on the first 3-ish books. They are still a fair read but they mostly set everything up.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

So im confident kaladin becomes a cognitive shadow in this book same as the heralds. That he returns to urithiru and becomes king of the radiants just like jezrien

[@CodyTaylor115]

The only problem I have with sja Anat giving deadeyes back their eyes is like, can they consent to the transformation? I think I remember she said she can only change the spren if it is what they want. I know Maya and Testament are different and can kind of talk but most deadeyes can't. Who knows how things work with the unmade maybe they can communicate with deadeyes

[@durvilemayfieldsr7150]

The Forgotten Realm R.A. Salvatore

[@connorslocum9327]

Oh yeah, we are so back

[@dillonwyatt8144]

With regards to BAM and her power, I think she is the/a God of Spren discussed in the Eila Steele: "For their betrayal extended even to our gods: to spren, stone, and wind." The Wind is certainly not the Storm Father. We think the Sibling is Stone but perhaps not, in the same way the Storm and Wind are distinct. Spren could be the god capable of binding spren to singers on pre-shattering Roshar. BAM was one of the ancient 3 with powers greater than any mortal or even a herald but not quite a shard.

[@lachlankidd6517]

The only thing that kind of messes with this is the existence of Night (although I completely agree that BAM is probably the Spren god). I see a few interesting interpretations of the passage with our new knowledge though: 1. There were several Old Magic gods (Spren, Night, etc.) but only the three mentioned were explicitly betrayed by the humans 2. The Dawnsingers did not know of the other Old gods 3. Only the three Old gods mentioned were sentient enough to be seen as gods or build relationships that could be betrayed 4. For some reason Spren, Stone, and Wind are more powerful or significant to the Singers in particular 5. Night and any other 'elemental' spren gods were brought with the humans from Ashen somehow

[@dillonwyatt8144]

@@lachlankidd6517 Indeed. Another option is that all the Unmade are are actually the god of "Spren". We just presume that each of those is singular and thus get 3 gods but Spren is singular and plural.

[@lachlankidd6517]

@@dillonwyatt8144 Another thing to note is that the Unkalaki believe that the three most powerful gods were of the trees, water, and the mountains (bringing the total elemental spren count up to at least 6 assuming mountains = stone), but that their were also multiple of each (at least one for each peak)

[@CodyTaylor115]

28:34 don't you me you would lose your ever-storming mind!

[@kairi99roxas]

A dust plushie could work, they would just look like the dust mites from studio Ghibli movies

[@wcouch8]

Maybe the reason Dalinar and Nirvani are going to the spiritual realm is to defer the combat of champions and tie Odium to Roshar. They can measure 10 days using spiritual realm calendar, which can be thousands of years. Kinda a better version of sending the Heralds to Hell... Dalinar and Nirvani in an easy wonderful place with no torture.

[@Haxerous]

I don't think the sleepless have the ability to replace someone perfectly like the Kandra. They have to create and breed those bugs and it takes them a while and that's without trying to imitate someone. Also they already have a sleepless working for them so idk why they would have the need to replace Mraize.

[@mariaclaravieirafernandes6176]

yeah it would only make sense if it's someone who covers up most of their skin

[@aarong9128]

I hope vasher uses his breath to save adolin.

[@darrendoll5725]

Ok, did I miss an announcement regarding when they will be getting back to Words of Radiance? Also, do they have an advanced copy of Wind and Truth? I don't understand how they are so many chapters in, when the book hasn't been released yet. I love the podcast, but I'm doing a reread of the series, and won't get to Wind and Truth for some time. Thanks.

[@JohnJohnson-wm7it]

So Christian, you're saying you are ... Sleepless?

[@kairi99roxas]

What if Navani takes up honor? 😂 That would be so funny But no I love the idea that Honor didn't actually die and is in hiding for some reason, and they will talk with him about stuff Edit: Yeah Jasnah should be the one to go she was studying the history and trying to figure it out!!