Karate Through Shuai Jiao - Finding Throws In Kata

[@ambulocetusnatans]

I did Karate when I was younger, and I do Tai Chi now. Even though they look very different on the outside, Shuai Jiao is like a thread between them. I think if you go back far enough, most martial arts came from Shuai Jiao in ancient times, so just about any style can benefit from it.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thanks for the comment! I hear that a lot about karate guys moving to kung fu, and it makes total sense. At the end of the day it’s all human movement and finding the similarities between arts can help people come together 👍

[@jacobharris954]

No, they don't. It is Easy to think. But there better conclusion is bright minds think alike

[@Rainbow_Oracle]

@@jacobharris954 This is correct thinking generally. Like the people spouting the nonsense that Chinese martial arts derive from India. Chinese people have been struggling against each for much longer than the influence of Buddhism in China. If Buddhist monks in ancient China knew martial arts, it's more likely that they were soldiers before devoting themselves to religion, rather than the practice being imported from abroad. However Karate is literally chinese kungfu. Most of the major forms like Sanchin are directly imported from the mainland. Karate is most closely related to Incense shop boxing, secondly to Tai Tzu boxing, and different lineages of karate have varying levels of admixture from Fujian White crane. It could even be thought of as an incomplete version of Ngo Cho, or five ancestors boxing. Or the influence could be convergent evolution. Out of all of Chinese influences though, I feel like Tai Tzu Kune is an extremely underrepresented influence on the character of Karate. People have known about the white crane influence for ages, the connection to ISB very recently, but TTK has gone almost entirely unnoticed. The internal quality and nature of both is extremely similar. At the outset, basically all the forms were imports. It was not until Funakoshi and other innovators of his generation that new material started being formed, mostly introductory material to help stairstep students gradually into the more difficult inherited kata. This where most of the modern styles of karate started branching away from each other. Other Japanese methods of bujutsu are likely homegrown methods of interpersonal struggle.

[@universalmethod6775]

Dude you are so cool doing this. I had the chance to trani with a brilliant Grand Master called Patrick McCarthy. He has practiced various arts and researches in depth the lineage of the Okinawan arts from their Chinese beginnings. He is a magnificent practitioner and truly a pioneer Ever since I have delved into his art Koryu Uchinadi. Nearly every old school Kata I see has merit and fantastic applications when you know what to look for. I chuckle when I see the limited, punch, block, kick methods most Karateka employ. Karate is truly a misunderstood art. Few try to delve deeper. Keep up the good work my Man.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Patrick McCarthy is a huge asset to the karate world, thanks for the comment! 👍

[@christopher-qk3ov]

Thank you for making content that actually takes research and critical thinking on applications. I’m so tired of the standard block and punch, or grab my wrist self defenses that get passed down from instructor to student. This is what the internet was made for. Sharing knowledge that normally wouldn’t be available. Keep up the great work.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thanks! That’s motivating to hear - I just want to keep sharing knowledge and hope to expand people’s minds 👍

[@lars309]

I totally agree Christopher, I started in GoJu Ryu back in the late 80's and always felt there has to be more than block /punch which lead me down the path of many different styles, landing on the life protection art of Seiyu Oyata. If you are in the USA I recommend connecting with United Ryukyu Kempo Alliance or anyone affiliated

[@christopher-qk3ov]

@@lars309 I’ve been practicing Goju since 97. Lots of instructors over the years. Learned a lot, but still seeking an instructor that has really explored outside of the art to discover bunkai that makes sense. Many of the applications are only used as a dojo curriculum. So much more is there to be used.

[@lars309]

@@christopher-qk3ov Trust me this is EXACTLY what you are looking for. Find someone near you Ryu-te or United Ryukyu Kempo Alliance. I trained in GoJu Ryu thru Meibukan as far as 1st brown belt, Tracy's Kempo, Oki-ryu Jujitsu and a little Akido and never trained with ANYONE like Allan Amor

[@juicestutors]

History will remember you. As you remember History. Great content. Thank you.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thanks for the kind words! That’s extremely motivating for me to keep this content coming

[@jimmylin7233]

The open-palm strike movement is called "Diagonal Striking" (斜打). These days, we only train the throwing applications (the most common one being similar to osoto gari in Judo). However, the original interpretations of that movement always implied a throat strike - whether it was the primary objective or as a way to break your opponent's structure/stance to get into the throwing position. "Lock the Elbow" (鎖肘) is indeed commonly applied as a side trip. However, the entry and "locking" position can also be used to execute a throw like osoto gari or kouchi gari or to gain entry into a throw similar to ippon seio nage. (Background: shuaijiao and judo practitioner)

[@KarateBreakdown]

thanks for the insight!

[@galain]

CMA practitioner here. Loved the clip and I really enjoy your work. It's always nice to see what connects the arts rather than what divides them.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thank you! It’s definitely a conscious effort to try and unite martial artists rather than divide styles further - thanks for checking out the video

[@AcceleratingUniverse]

5:02 this movement in shuai jiao is called a "stealing step" and it's basically the most fundamental movement of shuai jiao. it's a great way to develop a lot of explosive hip movement while holding onto your opponent

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

The karate channel I am subbed to talked about the forgotten throws many times.

[@stevethomsit2723]

Brilliant work, please keep it up!

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thanks!

[@hanksimon1023]

It's cool to see this! I was at a demo in the mid 1980s with Grand Master Cha’ng, Tung-sheng (just before he passed away), and he told us that Shuai Jiao and Judo had a common foundation in Chinese Wrestling (with many similar throws). The difference was that Shuai Jiao throws were faster, and had a snap to them.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Great observation, I’ve studied both and can agree! I wonder if it’s the looseness of the shuai jiao jacket that turns it more into a whip and forces the opponent to snap the throws more. Thanks! You got me thinking

[@hanksimon1023]

@@KarateBreakdown It was the technique rather than the jacket, similar to the highly leveraged, waist-driven, explosive techniques used in Tai Chi self-defense applications.

[@henryposadas3309]

Actually the common ancestor was Mongolian Wrestling.

[@EliteBlackSash]

The difference between Judo and Shuai Jiao is in the waist and the stance! The “wheeling” concept creates a new world of possibilities. Shuaijiao is like trying to hug a tornado. The feet and waist are Constantly spinning. I trained Chang style out a gym that had BJJ and Judo players, they had a very hard time with my teacher because of the wheeling.

[@BrennerBay]

Hai Sensei Zenpo Shimabukuro! Seibukan! I always get a thrill seeing him pop up in videos. A really gentle man and an excellent Karate Sensei...his karate is the stuff of legends..

[@KarateBreakdown]

Love his sharp movements

[@alLEDP]

You should do a collab with Lavell MArshall and the wandering warrior. Both are Shaui Jiao Practiocinoner with prior other MA knowledge like BJJ or praying mantis kung fu. That would be a nice discssion i wanna hear

[@KarateBreakdown]

That would be cool, I’ll look them up

[@johnpjones1775]

Glad to see some long form content.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thanks! I prefer making these as well, just need to commit to the time needed to make them. Appreciate it!

[@johnpjones1775]

@@KarateBreakdown one of the things i think the karate world needs most, at least more than "look at these kata movements and see how they relate to MMA" would be more along the lines of how kata, and stances apply to realistic footwork and head movement.

[@lawrencecron672]

Baguazhang here. Great vid, great comments. This arts influence is incredible.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Awesome - thanks for checking out the video, love bagua!

[@BlaireBustillo]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and breakdowns on the different applications. In your next video, it would be better if you increase the volume of your narration. Thanks and more power to you. One of your subscribers. 😁👍👍

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thanks for the suggestion! I’ll definitely increase narration volume next time 👍

[@markvilleneuve6655]

52 years doing Shotokan karate, my father is the best in knowing all the breakdowns from all the katas. Take what works for you may not work for me. Understanding the physics of each moves, helps to know what will work on the streets. We practice on concrete floors and no mats. Knowing your breakfalls and breakdowns you can manipulate the moves that are endless. I like to add grappling to it which is also in your breakdowns. What you can so standing up, you can also do on the ground. As well, go outside the box and add your own thing. We are 80% selfedence and 20% sport. We believe in quality mean less students. Just because you are a champion it does not mean you are a street fighter. Two different things. A good partner will always make you better for each other. Some, you can go almost for real. Others you have to be gentle. I say, be gentle at first ,and get tough.

[@rebelninjafightclub]

Dope Work!!!! I have seen the same things in my studies!!

[@KarateBreakdown]

Awesome! Thanks for the positive words

[@mattsuran1270]

This channel pairs nicely with Ian Abernathy's practicalkatabunkai.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thanks! Abernathy is one of the pioneers of online karate content - Great stuff!

[@jojavs]

I love this video! Subscribed, liked, and shared!

[@KarateBreakdown]

Appreciate it!

[@ralfhtg1056]

Finally! Finally a youtube channel shedding the right light on Karate. I only wish this would also be enabled by the tournaments! And not this ridiculous stuff they do on tournaments instead.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Glad you found it! Hoping to making a lot more content

[@ralfhtg1056]

@@KarateBreakdown May I recommend that you check out one of the videos by Jesse Enkamp? He also did a great video about the connections between Karate and philippino martial arts sich as Kali. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3OseqWYl716o7c

[@davidrodgers6939]

Great research. The traditional arts have many takedowns as well as a great deal of takedown defense that has simply been overlooked by modern practitioners. This led to the embarrassment of the traditional arts in regard to MMA in the 90s and early 2000s, but in reality, the answers were there all along.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Definitely! A lot of it was lost or never passed down properly, hopefully this channel helps bring some of it back

[@henryposadas3309]

Makes sense. Shoa Jao which originally was a Mongolian art most certainly influenced the entire region.

[@lps8966]

Even more fascinating is that karate came from Okinawa, Tang sho do ( hand from the tang ), but it finds many similarities with the modern day shuai jiao

[@KarateBreakdown]

Great points, Okinawa an epicenter for trade so it definitely saw tons of culture come through it

[@hugofernandes557]

The first takedown using anadai kata reminds me of Master Funakoshi's takedown called byobudaoshi.

[@ibaryabaq9197]

Its the same with Tai Chi: most folks think of the moves as strikes, when the truer applications are throws and grappeling.

[@KarateBreakdown]

So true! I train tai chi for a period and it all reminded me of grappling/chin na

[@NomadBulldog]

Do you have a link to the shuai jiao video being used in the video?

[@KarateBreakdown]

Here you go! I think this is it kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4C1npatnLyWqpYsi=ebqOM9JWKcMNVtY4

[@mikek8857]

Hey could you do kata breakdowns of the most common forms that are present across most main styles, like shotokan and kyokushin as it seems to be these styles that have become popular mostly as punch kick karate more than others

[@KarateBreakdown]

Definitely will add that to the list - one thing that’s difficult is that the kata from the “modern” arts are taken from older kata so it’s easier to see their original meaning the further back you go 👍

[@bajuszpal172]

Many thanks Sir, throughs are natural parts of higher KARATE katas and applications ,whereas hits are of similar use at higher levels of JUDO applications., thereby complementing each other into a whole, comprehensive martial art. Best regards, happy new year of 2023, Paul,67, etired instructor of Karate.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thanks and happy new year! Glad to see some karate OGs commenting on my videos, you guys were a whole different breed 👍

[@thefede1294]

OSU ! @Karate Breakdown Very interesting video . I already knew shuaijiao but i forgot a couple of forms that i have seen again here . Can you give me the link of the shuai jiao videos that you put in your one ? Thank you for your gentleness

[@KarateBreakdown]

awesome thanks for the comment! Here's the link to the video I used: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4C1npatnLyWqpY

[@NexusJunisBlue]

Great breakdown!

[@KarateBreakdown]

Appreciate it!

[@Master-AGN]

Exactly right. Thinking where karate comes from it is obvious. That is right I think the silat interpretation is better. In Silat, each djuru is seen as having a strike application and a throw application combined within the movement.

[@KarateBreakdown]

thannks master agn!

[@rogermanley9017]

Pretty cool! Pronunciation of Shuai Jiao is : Shuai -shwy (rhymes with pie, fry, my, sly, etc. Pronouncing it the other way means ‘sleep’. But, otherwise great video, thanks!👍🏻👍🏻

[@KarateBreakdown]

Thanks for the correction! I’ll keep that in mind the next time I mention shuai jiao 👍

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

What? What are you on about?? Where did you get that information from??😂😂

[@dbuck1964]

One thing that causes tremendous trouble is the way that the movement of the arm has been labeled as “block”. The movement in Japanese is referred to as “Uke”, which means “to receive”. Unfortunately when this type of movement was originally translated back in the mid 20th century the best explanation the English translators came up with was “block”.

[@KarateBreakdown]

100%! labels really box people into a certain interpretation instead of seeing the big picture of how things can be applied

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

​@@KarateBreakdowntrue that

[@simonedilettuso79]

Great video! Thank you

[@KarateBreakdown]

thanks!

[@scholarwarriorhealer]

Shuai Jiao is the first martial arts of China Jiao Di punch kick grab throw. It comes from Mongolian wrestling.Judo which is more limited in throws comes from Shuai Jiao. Karate, Japanese and Koreans also come from China.

[@avakinzerochill]

That's not true. Judo comes from Japanese jujutsu. Japanese jujutsu came from a doctor with martial arts and bone setting knowledge. Some say that jujutsu came from China, but there is no historically verifiable link. Shuai chiao is actually more akin to sumo wrestling in its application. It is way more aggressive and will also use strikes (slaps) to set up a throw. Even the scoring is similar.

[@gbody2617]

Fighting is fighting. It just got splintered into different studies on particular interest and then given a name but in a whole, real fighting has always incorporated everything.

[@KarateBreakdown]

So true! human bodies can only move a certain way so it's all related, thanks for the comment!

[@junjun_8070]

Anyone know where I can find more of these shuaijiao forms? I'm really interested in watching the rest

[@KarateBreakdown]

Search up “shuai jiao taulo” - should come up with some results 👍 thanks for the comment

[@Huaxi_BaodingKuaijiao]

Please sharing Chang Dawei on KZbin. This is the channel of the bearer of the Shuaijiao tradition of the Baoding direction. There you will be able to see the volume and completeness of this style.

[@flashrun6093]

4:10 I relate that to Hanguetsu

[@KarateBreakdown]

Good eye! Thanks for the insight

[@darkythecrazyninja5228]

Dem breaker Gobla Ivan's silowette Ringside kboges sidekick

[@peterh4446]

Are you familiar with Goju Ryu?

[@KarateBreakdown]

Definitely! love goju ryu, higaonna and taira are some of my modern karate heroes

[@peterh4446]

@@KarateBreakdown I noticed that later when I watched your other videos. I met Taira once and he is indeed quite spectacular. I have some thoughts we should discuss.

[@jesselei9237]

body mechanics are totally different in Shuai Jiao

[@KarateBreakdown]

werd

[@ryanrpggamer3902]

I noticed tai chi there is grappling in the form like 70% of it

[@thomasfahey8314]

Great content. Kata is an alphabet, it's up to you to communicate.

[@KarateBreakdown]

Great analogy! kata is movement and it’s up to us how to train and apply that movement 👍👍

[@sramdeojohn4428]

In Katz there are no blocks

[@pichetkullavanijaya6908]

Karatekas, truth is that outside of Karate and Tae Kwon Do, nobody attack or takes stances as you do, e.g., Muey Thai, Escrima-Kali-Silat, and various Chinese martial arts... So, when you train only in your own circle, it does not prepare you for "real world" attacks

[@KarateBreakdown]

Great point - it’s why cross training and knowledge exchange across styles is so important

[@combatsportsarchive7632]

Answer me this question. Then come there are video evidences that practitioners of hard-style Karate can fight? If you want examples, go watch my first video (title: Muay Thai vs Karate in MMA Matches) and second video (title: Full Contact Karate in Early MMA) for context. Then come back here for a discussion.

[@pichetkullavanijaya6908]

@@combatsportsarchive7632 : Didn't say that Karatekas can't fight ... Please re-read .... Your comment is unresponsive and it is not on the same topic. On the other hand, I completely understand when many years and so many dollars are invested in a system feelings run high. Most people become very sensitive, and want theirs to be the best and baddest. Any comments touch a sensitive spot and people get all worked up...Take it easy and stay open minded... Truth be known, different martial arts came about within certain set of circumstances, e.g., culture, traditions, religious + philosophical beliefs, perception of self and the world around, geography, climate, and built on the past including contributions from far away. Escrima - Arnis - Kali origins include India, and China in as much as the Filipinos, Malaysians, Indonesians, and Bruneian claim their arts are unique and exclusive... In one way or another, there is nothing unique... Muey Thai is really Cambodian boxing repackaged, but much better sales and marketing, for instance. Laotian, Burmese boxing is the same art with different interpretation and different names, otherwise the same.. Some claim Judo came from Jiu Jitsu, and throws came from Shuai chou, a Chinese and Mongolian throwing and wrestling arts that are traced back to Greek wrestling brought to Middle East all the way to ancient India by a talented Macedonian, Alexander the Great... The Greeks stayed on and built kingdoms in the region that lasted for several centuries...and their descendants live on in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, et cetera, and their martial arts and homosexual practices with teenage boys live on in Afghanistan and Pakistan.... Some Taliban War Chiefs showed off their boy toys called Bashi boys... Even an ISIS fighter captured in Iraq said during interrogation that his Commander used him for lust claiming it is Halal. Look up on You Tube under this title: Captured ISIS Soldier Reveals HOMOSEXUALITY Among Top Ranks

[@EliteBlackSash]

Bubishi!

[@KarateBreakdown]

The master text 😤👍

[@jingshan8090]

That's chinese Wrestling, has nothing to do with Karate!

[@GermanSausagesAreTheWurst]

You missed a real important one. Kicking. Kicks aren't really kicks, they are foot sweeps or throws. Even the front kick. I've tried to use kicks in a real fight and it's not easy, but when you realize that most kicks in Kata aren't really kicks, it starts to seem a lot more practical. The front kick that is really a foot sweep was a favorite technique of a Shuai Jiao Master called Chang Dong Sheng, so look him up for examples, and also many Judo throws are examples of this

[@KarateBreakdown]

great point and thanks for the comment!

[@bunkaiking]

Karate was only made into a sport because Japan already had judo and jj. They wanted it to be different which is why all the traditional moves got forgotten about.

[@KarateBreakdown]

100% it's good to remind people of the history of the art and how things came to be

[@KungFuTweety1]

Very interesting. Check out practicalkatabunkai channel...

[@KarateBreakdown]

Love Abernathy’s stuff