Kasrkin vs Scions in the New Astra Militarum Codex - Leaked Rules Compared!

[@heraissilly]

I was so upset we lost veterans, cause my entire list was veterans in chimeras. But I forgot about Kasrkins returning from the dead. These honestly make me excited again. Better Veterans.

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

I wish Scion's got the Harlequin treatment so they could be their own thing. I'd love to use some in kill-team.

[@aliengoat9418]

Think you can fill up a killteam with 2 fireteams of scions. Not sure though

[@ToastedMap1e]

@@aliengoat9418 you can! And there probably one of the more solid teams too (Just generally good)

[@douglashansen7869]

I really hope that the scions command squad didn't lose the 'bring 4 of a weapon', that was my favorite/only use for them. I'd rather not sit there and roll 4x unique weapons >_>

[@anthonylulham3473]

4 unique weapons but i hope they introduce a scions destroyer squad. 4 plasma shots right where you need it was super useful

[@thegorefatherdonkhorneleon5159]

You will definitely have to vary weapons. That’s consistent with the direction they moved

[@stevenschnepp576]

@Friendly Neighbourhood Sunwheel You say that like SM aren't neck-and-neck with Guard in a race to the bottom.

[@RedFlagification]

@@thegorefatherdonkhorneleon5159 but tau can get their "unlimited" (only limited in points) fusions blasters or whatever on their crisis suits.. hellblasters limited... eliminators and eradicator squads can only take 3x unique weapons.. oh no.. they dont.. its just the guard that get f* up again by GW in the end of 9th.. cause thats what we were all waiting for

[@matthewcoffman4053]

GW be like: "oh no disgustingly resilient as a 5+++ is too time consuming, make it just -1 D" Also GW: "you MUST never EVER take two of the same special weapon in ANY kit EVER"

[@555tork]

without knowing the complete rules it looks like karsarkins should be used in support of other infantry or heavy weapon squads using their higher BS and special weapons, while scions with deep strike and the option for smaller squad sizes should be used more aggressively by deep striking either for objectives or better angles to shoot.

[@davidhobbs5679]

Mutch agree, the lack of inbuilt order givers for kasrkin and the lack of deep strike changes how they are used. Kasrkin are not stand alone and more front line (the way I like em) scions are more like navy seals/sas while kasrkin come across as more of a paratrooper/commando (in the british/aussie sense) vibe

[@pauledwards9493]

@@davidhobbs5679 agreed.

[@iapetusmccool]

Looks like my kitbashed Catachan Veterans (and demo squad) are going to be promoted to Kasrkin. With, er, pump-action hotshot lasguns.

[@stephen9to5]

As a pure Scion player and kind of scared that they're losing their identity. I wish GW kind of went the way of harlequins making them a small subfaction that can be played really solo

[@YaboitheCadian]

As a Cadian fanboi from the beginning. I'm damn glad Kasrkin are coming back

[@rmkarros]

I'm in the same boat, even converted mine to be beast men using victoria minis heads and legs. now I'm even more convinced I'll skip this book and take a break from 40k.

[@TheSilverDragon1]

IMO, every faction should have its own subfaction. Like sisters of silence or kroot. Really flesh them out with heavy and fast attack units. I hope we see more in 10th.

[@RiffSilverthe1andonly]

Tempestus detachments were so fun

[@munchkingod6]

I’d love to see Scions get rolled out of Guard and into a new Inquisition book. Let them be inquisition Special Forces instead.

[@iainclark2959]

My poor Scions army - farewell Lions! It was a honour serving with you.

[@WeOnlyEatSoup]

They will return next edition I'm sure. But it's very annoying for scion lovers

[@krakkentrace6095]

I'm on the same boat as you. Well if I waited for the codex, I suppose I can wait for 10th edition to play again

[@IW-44]

Kasrkin popping out of Chimeras with the Mechanized regiment trait could be a good move

[@DarrinSK]

And cool as hell

[@Maxislithium]

I have 40 Kasrkin from the metal days. I have been waiting for this.

[@grud8495]

The kasrkin sound like troops I want to send with my main battle line to grab objectives. The scions then are your deepstrike operatives to do the secondaries where you need to be in your opponents zone, or need to take out glass cannons on their end of the board. Imo, it's perfect, because now they both have value, without one of them being always better than the other. that is true balance.

[@thekinginyellowmessiahofha6308]

Kasrkin are heavy infantry Scions are drop troops.

[@mlpman246]

Imagine having the Kasrkins engaging the enemy from the front, but then the Scions deep strike behind to outflank and surround them!

[@MrPace-ge4qy]

GW should have named the new Guard supreme commander after Mordian Glory for his splendid service 🤣

[@bradleycavalier1311]

Lol GW is probably going to assault Mordian for his service. Like guard has been ignored for two years.... And they start taking about 10th and guard doesn't have a codex and is bleeding units

[@Dragonspirit223]

I'm really worried of pure Scions losing its flare. Currently we get unique Warlord Traits, Relics, Stratagems, and a really unique and fun Regiment system. Now we get... basically the 133rd Relic and Strat, and we have to assume the only good thing we'll get from a pure Detachment is our Elites become Troops. I think I know what composition I'll run: A Detachment of Scions, probably a Battalion, with 2 Primes and a Psyker, 6-7 Scion Squads, a Taurox Prime and a Valkyrie. Then a Vanguard Detachment with Kasrkin, Rough Riders, either a Cadian Castellan or Cadian Commander, with some Ogryn and Bullgryn. And to top it off a Supreme Commander, because he's just really darn good. Obviously points will limit things, but my point is there's not that much incentive to go full army of pure Scions, especially with the options standard Guard has been given.

[@missivory_missraine]

@Friendly Neighbourhood Sunwheel tbh seeing people bitch about "my army is losing its purpose" well...they did the same thing with Elysians and Death Korps. They did it to Catachans. They did it to Valhallans, Tallarn, and Preatorian Guard. Kasrkin were taken out of the codex for Scions. Now they're back. You didn't lose fluff. You stole it from Kasrkin. I just want GW to make the codex less Cadian, and make it more GUARD overall. Cadia was destroyed we get it "the planet broke before the guard did." But make the codex less cadian friendly. Make it guard friendly.

[@discipleofdagon8195]

​@@missivory_missraine the scions were meant to fill the gap because that'd be like if every chapter followed the codex astartes to the letter. Kasrkin are cadian, stormtroopers are their own thing utilised by the Departmento Munitorum and sometimes the inquisition. I love the scions but they're becoming like other 1st founding legions compared to ultramarines, less supported with less unique models unless James Workshop can make a buck (see: Black Templars only really coming back because the emperor's champion model was a big hit). I want more krieg plastic kits potentially armageddon conversion bits so bad.

[@missivory_missraine]

@@discipleofdagon8195 We won't see em. Gw axed like 90% of the Krieg line of models.

[@discipleofdagon8195]

@@missivory_missraine forgeworld (and recast ig) still exist but are far from financially viable outside of the one kill team box... thanks Geedunce

[@xlightingedgex]

I'm wondering how effective Kasrkins maybe if put in one of the Baneblades with a firing platform as basically a big mobile bunker for them considering their cheaper (but not by much) than the scions GW obviously think that there is something in the codex that makes up for losing deep strike and flexible squad sizes

[@bjorngreybeard1624]

Love that these are back! I still have my metal set from way back in the day

[@gwell2118]

I think from the looks of the two last kin function more like stormtroopers, spearheading army assaults. While Scions seem more like Marines. Getting into enemy lines and causing sheer havoc. I honestly see a use for both.

[@equos5060]

No more pure Scion armies....? Holy shit. WTF GW?

[@uselesssidekick69]

Watching a Mordian glory video he showed a kasrkin unit with a relic that let the unit deepstike. So am guessing this will happen in the movement phase so turn one command phase give them lord solars re roll everything give them +1 to hit +1 ap order then deepstrike them into the enemy lines 😀

[@TheCrimsonSpork]

Sounds interesting, but probably not worth the relic if a 10 man Scion unit can basically do a similar thing

[@Fenix3513]

Command phase is before the movement phase though.

[@uselesssidekick69]

The scions can't deepstrike turn one and they can only take one of each weapon the kasrkin can take two of each? And that's the point order's are given out in the command phase and the Lord solars abilities so the unit will have all the buffs before it jumps. The kasrkins start on the board if that makes it clearer as well

[@danielflavelle9984]

@@uselesssidekick69 Scions take one of each *per 5 men* so a ten man unit can take 2 of each, just like Kasrkin. The Kasrkin would get that bonus sniper rifle, which would be nice, but rerolls on scions means more chances to roll 6's and double tap (mind, they dont start on board so its not really comparable)

[@uselesssidekick69]

Like the video states pros and cons for both it will be a nice surprise for the enemy tbh I am going to try both out I have 30 old kasrkin models already to deploy just waiting for the book lol

[@lupusprimealpha6198]

GW: We have decided that we think IG players rolls their dice to efficiantly. How can we make them use even longer time rolling dice? New guy: Uhm.. we force them to not be allowed to have more then one of the same special weapon. We can’t let them have the ability to make small special weapons squads of 4. What if they make plasma squads? Thats to close to the primaris marines full special weapons squads and we can’t have that now can we? GW: I dont know who this guy is but he said my favorite words… primaris marines. so do as he says ASAP!

[@fiole666]

I think we are many to have an army of scions with full paint scheme and transport, so year of work, and lods of € : wha'ts going on ?

[@keyne444]

About delivering the Kasrkin somewhere... what about that teleportation relic? Mordian Glory had used it in his playtest with Blood Angels to a satisfying degree.

[@urzasungei988]

they should really be interchangeable in lore they are equivalent but once based directly on cadia doctrine and training values while Scions are more standardized imperium wide due the the schola. they should both get Tourax primes and Valkyries. but Scions then kasrkin. but lore wise much of a muchness. would want a company of each.

[@mattkelly6226]

kasrkin are trained on Cadia Scions are trained by the Schola where Commissars are trained. So very different.

[@highmarshalbalian680]

@@mattkelly6226 when I started the Kasrkin we’re just the pinnacle of the Storm Troopers

[@grimnir8872]

@@highmarshalbalian680 Kasrkin were never Storm Troopers. They're equipped in the same way, but Storm Troopers are basically the Imperiums SAS while Karskin are more like cadian veteran squads.

[@RiftShredemption]

@@mattkelly6226 despite their regimental battlecry, Cadia's burnt mate. Ain't no one trained there anymore. So, not THAT different. One is SBS, the other are USMC Raiders. They'll both tell you they're different, but they do a LOT of the same jobs.

[@mattkelly6226]

@@highmarshalbalian680 yeah back in 3rd they used kasrkin and stormtroopers as the same thing. They expanded on the lore in 4th I think explaining that Kasrkin were just the best of the best cadians.

[@zachweber1908]

It feels like a peice of the scion puzzle is missing. The changes to the command squad leave a lot un answered. Do they operate like the regular comand squad and can take advisors and body guards? If so does that provent them from deep striking? Can those units go in taurax primes? The primes now state you can only take 1 per scion unit in the army. Soooo can they now take more the commisars and scions? It just seems scions have rules or something missing to me.

[@Bobamelius]

A cheeky deep striking Scion squad or two will combo well with the regimental tactic that gives artillery +1 to hit while there are friendly infantry within 12" of the target (expert bombardiers was it?)

[@MrFiremagnet]

One is awesome old-school unit that was in the lore for a long ass time, and was so popular it just couldn't be wiped from existence, and make a glorious comeback. The other is Scions.

[@RocRolDis]

40k intimidates me. You have the game rules, then your consistent faction rules, then your faction rules that change every turn, then rules for individual squads, then rules for individual models in individual squads then strategems for each phase plus mission rules. Now double that because you need to be aware of all of that for your opponent's army. I can't juggle all of that.

[@bormfski9058]

First time guard rules have changed in 5 years really so it’s actually not as bad as it seems

[@MiloshBlack00]

Use your brain, it's as simple as that, it's not that complicated.

[@RocRolDis]

@@bormfski9058 I'm not talking about just guard. Space marine doctrines, custodes martial forms, drukhari turn buffs, canticles of the Omnissiah combined with dozens and dozens of strategems... There are so many additional rules that change the base rules and eachother that I just can't remember them all.

[@RocRolDis]

@@MiloshBlack00 That's an interesting way of reacting to someone having trouble with rules that even veterans say have gotten bloated.

[@uwesca6263]

Well for me and some people i play with (we play rarely) we came tocthe conclusion of not using specific layers of rules. So no subfaction rules and sometimes no strategemes or no relics. Because it only make the game boring if people spend 80% of the game flipping rulebooks.

[@fox21231]

They seem like redundant units, they are so incredibly similar that they could have been on datasheet with different wargear options.

[@fin4314]

So a guard sniper rifle is dmg 3 and Ap -2, but other more advanced races are stuck with snipers that don't even come close? Primaris eliminators don't have a rifle round hitting that hard

[@Orannis01]

Their Las fusil do better than that

[@equos5060]

Chaos has no snipers.... Alpha Legion cannot field snipers....

[@velphidrow]

@@Orannis01 the Las fusil is an anti tank rifle

[@Orannis01]

@@velphidrow and what stops you shooting infantry with it?

[@velphidrow]

@@Orannis01 you can I'm just saying it's not a sniper rifle. It's an anti material rifle

[@Azoth86730]

Wish GW would redesign Scions back to the tacticool Storm Troopers of old, Michael Perry and Mark Bedford Storm Troopers of 2nd and 3rd Editions. I don't understand why the Scions got knight armour and gothic ornaments when the Storm Troopers are supposed to be tacticool, I miss the HECU look of 3rd Edition Mark Bedford Storm Troopers specifically.

[@makeitrain280]

I’m still hoping that scions can be deployed as their own regiments and do something similar to world eaters where the main elite choice unit becomes the standard trooper. Though from the sounds of it I think they’ve just been relegated to being just another unit.

[@chrislacombe5976]

As an inquisition player I am worried without the ability to make scions troops in their own detachment. Since I can slot in a inquisitor in only patrol, battalion or brigade this is gonna shake my plans up immensely.

[@pixelgoat7317]

Hotshot Sniper Rifle!? Hell yeah! Another excuse to yell,"TAKE THE SHOT!" at the table XD

[@Azoth86730]

Major difference between Kasrkin as Cadian Shock Troops unique Elites choice and Storm Troopers as generic IG Elites choice has always been that the Kasrkin had Demolition Charges as per Cadian Shock Troops army wide special rule and they lacked Infiltrate/Deepstrike special rule in return, whereas the generic Storm Troopers had Infiltrate/Deepstrike special rule ever since 3rd Edition. And another major difference was 2000 Mark Bedford Storm Troopers sculpts to represent the generic Storm Troopers as Imperial Guard Elites choice (and Inquisitorial Stormtroopers of Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters as Troops choice) and 2003 Juan Diaz Kasrkin sculpts to represent the Kasrkin as the Cadian Shock Troops variant army list Elites choice.

[@NoFlu]

I like the idea of regular veteran/spec ops troops vs paratroopers (and yes, I will not count regular veterans as veterans for this discussion). Allows for a bit more flavor. I always liked the idea of Scion rolling up in vehicles compared to other infantry, but they were always wasted when not grav-chuting (the scion starter set really should've had a smaller flier instead of the taurox). Anyway, like the destinction now, just hoping Scions will still be able to be run as its own army....

[@oldschoolben438]

Kasrkin = Rangers, more of a heavier frontline assault force to seize and hold objectives. Scions = SEALS / Delta, more of a scalpel and used in small units and infiltration.

[@MagosDominusRevan]

@Friendly Neighbourhood Sunwheel Its not the weapon that makes you a warrior but your skills and training BOI

[@TheCyborg000]

goddammit. I was planning to run scion command squads as melta and plasma squads.

[@mattkelly6226]

This is why GW limited it.

[@fin4314]

@@mattkelly6226 Nah, they limited it because they don't want you converting your models and getting any ideas about bits from other companies or *gasp* 3d printing them

[@NoUseForAName06]

quick question, so if I take the regimental doc that let's Kasrkin disembark after moving, does that mean they can exit a Valkyrie after moving without having roll if any of them die? Because I am not using the Valks rule that lets people disembar after moving but rather my regimental trait.

[@davidhobbs5679]

I believe this would apply if it was in hover mode, as models may disembark normally, flying I believe it would depend on the wording of the rule (I.e, CAN the model normally disembark). Normally rules as written it'll be something " this unit may disembark after a vehicle has moved, provided they are able to do so" or something like that

[@alexisXcore93]

It Will depend on the strat. Some are only for aeronautical imperialis, other a for specificslly for chimeras. However unless it specificslly says that you dont roll a d6 for the grav chute ability, then it does not have it and you must roll it regardless.

[@landerbennewith6169]

I'm looking forwards to geting my Inquisitor led Scions army out on the table.

[@spoonsrattling]

I like em both and definitely gonna be using both regardless

[@TheTobaccoman]

Kasirkins feels like heavy armored and up gunned troops , where as scions are the tactical drop in and nuke a target specialist unit. Scions being more flexible and tactical choice and kasirkins being there to support your battle line.

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

I like how all the comments are crying about Scions being overshadowed and made useless when all evidence suggests they're soundly better than the Kasrkin

[@kostakatsoulis2922]

Personally im gonna have these guys come screaming out of reserves in a couple of Valkyries, blaring Fortunate Son as they land right in the battle line while the transports cover them them with a hail of rocket fire

[@cordial001]

This is the way

[@bjorngreybeard1624]

Make then vendettas, better gunships after they drop the payload of troops

[@kostakatsoulis2922]

@@bjorngreybeard1624 wait Vendetta can carry troops?

[@lightbringer9898]

Kasrkin giving my flashbacks to my child hood in 3.5-4th kina Era around the Eye of terror campaign, when a drop troops army based around transports and Valkyries, very much black hawk down in theme :D i think technically they were stormtroopers rather than kasrkins, but still.

[@bobdole6768]

kasrkin should really be LD9 or 10 from a lore pov

[@miaou429]

Yep, when I saw leadership 6/7 I was like come on guys! ^^

[@velphidrow]

Lolno

[@richard_n]

I like the options that Guard players are getting now. Makes playing a lot more customizable.

[@Nolsie]

I think scions are better from what we know now, but their identity is so lack luster right now. They should add Lucifer blacks to the faction or give them some method of using the assassins in an interesting way. I hope they end up their own subfaction like harlequins or something

[@Wizardsfirstrule57]

The scions went from a troops choice to elite they are definitely worse

[@MagosDominusRevan]

They were with their own codex for a time back in the day. And its lame. They dont need to be lke harlequins and to be honest harlequins should not be a thing on their own as well.

[@danhay2505]

7:43 "Scion Regiments are likely gone" OH YES! HAIL TO THE GREAT ONE! We can finally do away with those ridiculous Psychic Awakening rules!

[@osamaobama879]

Interessting that they make them different in that way. I am courious how they will be in the final Codex. And shure my Kasrkin will see the Battlefield again!

[@Harleqyin]

Aaaaaaand my Scions are completely gutted. Some 3k points of pure Scions that I'll now have to completely re-jig just to actually fit into GW's master pla- I mean, new ideas... GW punishing long-term players never ceases to amaze.

[@ericrhinehart9155]

I always preferred the look of Karskin. Happy they’re both strong.

[@JeepWranglerIslander]

Nuts. Here I was hoping to be able to field them as troops and keep my Krieg grenadiers list as kasrkin proxies.

[@Knightstruth]

As a new player who bought a bunch of Tempestus Scions, I definitely remain in favor of the Scions. I just wish I could decide on how I want to paint them. I had been considering painting them in the style of the 9th Iotan Gorgonnes but with Kasrkin coming back, the paint scheme for them feels a bit like it's imitating the kasrkin too much. Maybe I should just paint them like the standard Tempestus Scion. The Kappic Eagles was it? Or a custom paintjob? Part of me was thinking of doubling down on the medieval look of their armor and painting it silver with gold edges and Blue berets. I don't know.

[@alixplaysguitar]

silver with gold trim would be super cool imo

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

I paint mine black armor, red clothes, gold trim

[@rodneygaul2227]

Just pick colors you like : What is your Favorite color ? Do you like Grim dark or Fresh for parade Grounds ? Once a color picked ? have a darker shade for base , 1 or 2 medium shades for high lighting , and a light shade for edge high lights . UNLESS you're going with basic coverage with just speed paints ( which looks just as good ) Pink and Purple with Turquoise trim ? Emerald green and Earthshade Brown with gold trim ? Black and White ( light grays ) with Silver trim ? Red and White ( light grays ) with Blue trim ? GW is wanting to stream line everything . Guard has to many options for rules and they're trying to shoe horn us into being Space Marines / Just pick a color .

[@_Morph1ne_]

My personal favorite scion regiments are the 54th Psian Jackals and the 68th Deltic Lions. I think they look rad so I would tell you go with one of those

[@stevenschnepp576]

I'm focusing medieval with mine, including swapping their heads with Skitarii Vanguards for a full techno-medieval look. I'm planning to field them with a Knight painted in Bretonnian red and blue, so they'll probably be painted something similar.

[@GamingPaladin]

Kasrkin not having deep strike is garbage. Like, in Cadian Blood, which they're just re-releasing, the Kasrkin attached to the company drop in from a Valkyrie to save the day right near the beginning of the book. :P

[@razpenguin]

Just going to use Kasrkin models for Scions because GW has forgotten that the fluff says Kasrkin are superior quality troops to Stormtroopers.

[@masoncarter1710]

As a person who is building up a scions army right now, I think I'm team scion (sam fisher FTW). I'm curious how I will be able to use scions alongside regular guard, right now it's basically non-existent. It would be very nice if I could bring a guard detachment alongside a scion detachment and not have any downsides.

[@RiffSilverthe1andonly]

With the amount of one special weapons per squad, kasrkin with 2 means you can load em up with plasma and meltas and just yeet them in a fast taurox toward the enemy and get a first turn big damage from 110 points

[@leandrochavez6480]

Hi, i just finished watching the last video you posted, this is insane :D

[@sivel7493]

I wonder how big the scions models compared to Kasrkins/new Cadians models, are Scions as big as the current Cadian models? The ones that are about to be revamped I mean.

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

Kasrkin are a little taller and bulkier than both Scions AND the new and old Cadians

[@Relgar47]

Scions are about the same size as the old cadian models, so they're still shorter than the new cadians. I wonder how mix and matchable theyll be since the proportions are going to be a little wack

[@MagosDominusRevan]

@@Relgar47 You mean like in real life where people have different hight ? : ))

[@Relgar47]

@@MagosDominusRevan more so that if you were to use scion legs on a kasrkin torso, will the model look like detective baby legs? Or are the arms going to make the model the opposite of DK mode.. the difference in scale (as well as density, the new line of minis are noticeably slimmer than the old sculpts) will have an effect on mix and match ability for kitbashers.

[@quadcannon]

The fact that I can't take 4 of the same special weapon in a squad disappoints me greatly.

[@setaripantheon8801]

I like both models very much! Would like to do an army with only one of them! But I like the Kazakin more in Gamplay as it seems from this video, and I hate the Thorax Vehicle model....!

[@chriswalls6275]

Looks like my Scion army is going to fall apart with this new codex. Might just not rebuild.

[@Stanislav292]

I think GW has finally shown that: Kasrkins are heavily armed and armored veterans for direct assault Scions are spec-ops Both units can do everything but of course they are better in their speciality

[@benclark3457]

Then they shouldve created the Kasrkin as such a unit, rather reinvent a unit noone asked for, one that fits into the structure of the AM rather than ad-hoc units from a dead world that cannot be reinforced. Cadian's themselves were barely tolerable but ELITE therefore prescious Kasrkin that are eventually going to be rarer than Space Marines lore-wise??? GW should not have brought these back under the 'Kasrkin' name, the models are fine but not as technically Kasrkin. A doctrine as homage to Kasrkin wouldve been sufficient, and we can paint them how we want, but mass produced units in a codex? Cadians were tolerable but not elite Cadians. Lose a lot of respect for GW for this, as a life long Guard player.

[@danielflavelle9984]

I mean basically they just replaced Grenadiers for Krieg with Kasrkin and made them basically interchangeable.

[@Stanislav292]

@@benclark3457 I don't respect GW for making IG meat-shield and canonfolder, without logic and normal reason, just because they can do that. And you can argue that this update is amazing for Guard and huge step forward for making them good army(I'm mean in lore) And still only time would show how it'll be

[@Stanislav292]

@@danielflavelle9984 I mean... Krieg's grenadiers still exist... or I missed something?

[@danielflavelle9984]

@@Stanislav292 Grenadiers exist in the Krieg list, but with a new Guard codex will the Krieg list still exist? Doesn't look like Grenadiers are likely to be in the 9th guard dex, despite having Krieg infantry. That kind of suggests to me that the whole Krieg army is going to legends, no? Convenient, then, that Kasrkin are EXACTLY a match for Grenadiers now in terms of niche...

[@jorgea4358]

The point is that we dont have veterans anymore, but we have karsking doing the same role so... support infantery with with better weapons and cuality fire.

[@fox21231]

You should compare kasrkin to the CURRENT veterans guard have.

[@darko-man8549]

The “one of every special weapon” only and seemingly “just another unit” on scions rather than their own thing is leaving a lot to be desired.

[@BonziKittyGamingHub]

His leaks are form the old play tester copy 2 years ago. These rules are most likely have been changed.

[@ronpaul5319]

Everything GW has previewed has been a 100% match to the leaks 🤷‍♂️

[@darrenprong2632]

He's been spot on so far...

[@sarico7827]

SO I've used my older kasrkin as scions and even had a full "scions" list with kasrkins.

[@sanninjiraiya]

So Kasrkin seem better for artillery heavy lists where you want a solid battle line and to fight in the middle while scions strike me as more useful in Eldar/Tau/GSC style lists where you want to pressure your opponent from weird angles and hit those spots really hard.

[@RowanCitrian]

Kinda hope Krieg grenadiers come back as well, otherwise I'll just use one of these as substitute rules and then use the gren models

[@thecruzking]

so can someone explain the proper lore difrence between Kasrkin and Scions? i know kasrkin are the elite of the cadians. but are they veterans or something independent/distinct from veterans? are scions the kasrkin of other non-descript guard regiments? please explain, thank you.

[@matkilla454]

Scions needed a buff not what looks like a nerf, hopfully the rest of the rules are better.

[@elliottgaal9774]

At least Scions got some boosts. I suppose you can proxy Kasrkins as Scions.

[@discipleofdagon8195]

I'm actually tempted to do that

[@SChen-ei8gx]

...if GW takes away my ability to play a pure Scion list as troops or a least a CP neutral Vanguard with opsec... that would be just sh!tty of them for all the people that have pure Scion Armies.

[@robro2214]

Cadians are becoming the ultra marines

[@Arcodus]

Team Scion for me. Though the proportions of the Kasrkin are more sexy.

[@andreaambrosini9711]

Do scions and kasrkin models share the same proportions?

[@thetraitorguardsmen.5321]

I'm going to make all my kasrkin into war hawks i have plenty of spare lasguns. And gravchute's.

[@CMTechnica]

No deepstrike on kasrkin? Means my valks can finally be dusted off. Sweet.

[@WeOnlyEatSoup]

Personally like the Scions over more Cadians with cooler uniform's. Cadia gets so much attention it's just annoying, but I am glad to see the Kasrkin get new models

[@roys.1889]

Is it me or does the scion's hotshot-volley gun* looking a lot more like a flash drive than a weapon?

[@kaliax5356]

You mean the weapon visible at 9:46? It's a hotshot volley gun

[@roys.1889]

@@kaliax5356 Oh! yeah that one.

[@lachlancannard]

No doubling up on special weapons is going to make scion armies super slow to play with.

[@storm1thunder332]

Does anyone have any pictures of scions models next to kasrkin models? Wondering about scales

[@robertnathan5250]

Well there goes my pure scion list *sigh*

[@Roadrun98]

Why do they keep making elite units when we're still missing dozens of regular guard models... space marines gets dozens of choice, IG get cadian, cadian and a 20yo Catachan kit...

[@guerrillavanilla]

luv me Scions

[@guysolomon7904]

So my Scion army is no longer legal and I now have like 12 excess melta gun Scions I can't field? Great...

[@youtubevanced4900]

Guardsmen get more attacks than Space Marines..... GW just being GW.

[@thekinginyellowmessiahofha6308]

It seems fine. Scions are delta force, kasrkin are rangers.

[@ghillieguy52]

kind of hope they repurpose the scions kit for inquisitorial storm troops

[@puenboy1]

I can't really see when you would take Kasrkins over scions, considering how vulnerable they would be while they move up. Deep strike for short range weapons is just too nice to pass up, since you don't essentially have to double their cost for a transport. You could pay a cp to give kasrkin sergeant the teleport relic but is that really worth it?

[@javilo2797]

Karskin are the coolest models of all 40k

[@sarcasticlittleass]

Disembarking form a moved transport and then still being able to move is super strong on a unit that has some some punch.

[@tom4115]

Just look at them. They're beautiful.

[@javilo2797]

In warhammer down of war 2 they devastating and super fun to play against

[@sholy26]

*insert "why not both?" meme here*

[@fiole666]

We can't play anymore a full army of Scions ? Please tell me you were kidding. It can't be. It just can't. What is this ?

[@robertmurfet5834]

SO MUCH CONTENT1111

[@justinius2170]

Taking both

[@theTemplar08]

Like the scions but need access to the Valkyries.

[@Romeo_Delta]

GW is putting the very minimum they can into the Guard codex if all the leaks are to be believed. If Scion regiments are gone I won't even bother playing until the next codex comes out.

[@MagosDominusRevan]

You will not be missed bye :)

[@milcearry]

Can I use them with SM

[@jagermeister_1754]

Can you transportkasrkin in valkyries?

[@globaloccultcoalition9074]

So, can someone correct me if I’m missing something here, but is it just me or are the Kasrkin kind of just actively worse then the Tempestus Scions for some reason? They have better CQB, but don’t have deepstrike to get there, have fairly paper survivability (as expected), and all around kind of just seem… meh? Doesn’t quite live up to what I was expecting, given that they’re more or less described as being one of the only things better then the Tempestus Scions in lore.

[@velphidrow]

They have never been described as better then scions in lore. That's the lucifer blacks

[@outrageoussharpie4107]

I mean it's a Guard unit, it's going to be meh, the package deal is that its 105pts for 5 special weapons and a full squad of 10. One squad is perhaps insignificant, taking three with transports is more of a threat. Combine with industrial efficiency doctrine as your bonus doctrine and you have 4+ saves even against common AP-1 weapons like bolt rifles, which is not too bad.

[@globaloccultcoalition9074]

@@outrageoussharpie4107 That actually makes them appear a bit better then how I originally imagined. Thanks.

[@masonshilling6821]

Wait no one is team krieg???