Katori Shinto Ryu and Fighting in Armour

#antonycummins #samurai #katorishintoryu

[@bernardorodero8374]

I have trained Katori Shinto Ryu (one year, long time ago, I prefered Kendo) and as some have already pointed out in the Kata you aim at the chest so not to harm your coleague in case of hit, becaused an oak wooden sword can break the collarbone and severely damage the shoulder) but the aim should be directed above the collarbone, where the "cuirass" meets the neck and the carotid is exposed, you cannot cut the neck like you would in erupean martial arts agaist a kabuto because the sides of the neck and posibly the front of the neck (in full armour with an iron mask) but there is a spot that requires hitting a weird angle cutting with the very tip of the sword that can either cut the artery or break the collarbone. Also that's where the armour is tied up so you could glance the cords even if you miss drawing blood.

[@MVK_GS]

Thank you. Most useful comment so far.

[@AntonyCummins]

Thank you

[@TopLob]

@@MVK_GS As someone who actually have some meat on their bones in Katori Shinto Ryu, I'd like to point out the (obvious) fact that Bernardo here is not even a little bit qualified to explain this technique. One year of training is not anywhere near close to learning how this is used. People usually spend at least 3 years just to be able to hold the sword properly. After a year of training, the student is barely capable of doing the sequence of the kata, but they won't have learned how they use it. The esoteric aspects of Katori Shinto Ryu are so that a novice won't know how to use what he is taught. As a senior, it's not hard for me to hit beginners. All I have to do is do the kata properly, and I'll win every engagement. I have to hold back, hide, and obscure the techniques for them to even get to practice what they're supposed to practice. You won't find an experienced Katori Shinto Ryu practitioner who are willing to explain this kesa giri to you in this context. The TSKSR (and koryu) community considers Antony Cummins a fraud, and wouldn't be willing to divulge their teachings in order to help him defraud people.

[@RyanSeven1111]

I've seen techniques in other schools where the blade is placed on the chest to guarantee sliding it up under the neck/chin armour.

[@igaluitchannel6644]

There's a space between the Node and the Do in some armour where the subclavian artery can be reached. Also, not all combattants wore a do and it could be used on the throat as well..

[@Apepisaniceguy]

I’ve trained in Mugai Ryu and Shinshin Ryu so my background is in unarmored sword arts but my interpretation is that it ends with the monouchi and kissaki near the clavicle/neck.

[@maktiki]

Exactly u only use te tip of the Katana to strike the point it is enough to kill

[@kaifinn]

Here the teacher alows Kohai to cut his neck In bunkai the standing man is actualy winning, but this technic is not shown (hiden). This coupe du grace can be done as a kesa while standing up. Kirikomi is kneeling because he is doing this coupe the grace againts a senior. (in katori there is an teacher and a student part). In our school we call it mainly kimeru. A way to threaten the enemy so he can make a choice: end the fight or follow tru. In this position there is actualy no follow tru, kohai is checkmate. But if he goes on, then you can cut him kesa (the blade is very close to the neck), your spirit has to be very high. It shows the school main teaching. do not fight/kill when not necesarry. Pardon my Englisch.

[@Bb5y]

Ive trained katori, the 1st 4 kata as shown are some of the oldest kata and are traditionally thought of as practiced in armour, they attack the weak points of the armour and the gaps. As you’ll know the distance shown in the kata is off, in general the junior attacker cuts true and the defence is shown false. The difference is Mainly in the distancing. The cut is called Kesagiri. Which i think is called After a monks kesa follows a line and visually represents a cut starting from the top right, base of neck, using all the body weight with full commitment down to the right hip bone, although you actually always aim to cut to centre in katori. It’s all about centreline.which is why it will end with the attacker on his knee using his drop off body weight behind the cut. It visually follows a Monks kesa. It was often referred too as the mercy cut. Ie your opponents already defeated and your putting him out of his misery. - the initial start of the cut is aimed at the gap to the left of the base of neck, and comes in at the angle to avoid the base of the helmet. Aiming to make contact with the last 4 inches of the blade to skin. I think the 1st episode of the way of the warrior which you’ll find on youtube, shows itsutu no tachi ,the 1st armoured kata, with otake sensei demonstrating these cuts to an opponent in armour.

[@computron808]

That’s was a cool video !!! Thank u Ant !!!

[@Stephen_Curtin]

My thoughts were that maybe the target is really the neck where there's a gap in the armour. Looking through the comments it seems that people who have experience in the style agree with this.

[@-RONNIE]

Thanks

[@plurplursen7172]

The Katas are not meant to be understood before after 15 years of practice and the 3rd roll! and 40 years of age

[@tochiro6902]

thank you for the video.

[@Veqtor]

Yes, the finish is mostly ceremonial, actually every parry isn't something that would happen, it's a killing cut, but the true cut is hidden unless you train with a master. So, in actuality you'd never see a fight like these kata, they're just a mnemonic to help you memorize counters.

[@The_Okami]

So this is coming from someone from a HEMA backround but the end of the demonstration finishes on the chest but its the point of the sword that catches my eye. The finishing move to me looks like the tip is in position to look for gaps in the neck or helmet/sides/front. At least that's what it looks like to me. Also it left the person in a good position for what might happen next. The hand snipes are cool and I like that but there are two things I wonder about mostly due to me having a lack of understanding. 1. Maybe the drills in the video are not all that suited to armour combat or I just don't understand? 2. From my Hema backround Instead of so many back and forth techniques, why not get in close faster and grapple while getting your tanto or wakizashi b/c of the armour? Those are just some things I thought about. Like I said I'm not claiming to know just an observation. And not to mention armour combat was done about 500 years ago so that too, Thanks for the Cool video I really enjoyed it!!

[@AntonyCummins]

From what I know, each section of the kata is an individual move in itself.

[@Bb5y]

Each section is an individual move in itself, and the lie is in the distancing. This is actually demonstrated cut by cut later on in the full version of this video through the whole kata. They show the kata, then the attack and the fake defence, then the true defence, the true defence is just a difference in distancing largely the angles are maintained. In the later kata’s the distances change again, some are very close infighting once you know the truth of the target. In my opinion that is the beauty of it. These kata’s are rigorously repeated, to perfection to eliminate the slightest imperfection that could generate a bad habit, so many times a night its unreal, each lesson is like being under the glare of a moderator in an exam. This is something that keeps the art alive, and is missing from hema, but its the beauty of the Japanese way of teaching. Each kata builds on the next, and is a response to the previous one. Also, it must be taken in context, tsksr started at a time when there were few systemised ryuha around. Kage ryu, Shinto ryu and nen ryu were the main tree trunks that became the full tree of the samurai arts in japan. So many of the cuts in the 1st 4 armoured kata, are cuts from Kage or shinkage ryu or nen ryu that a student might encounter,and it defending against them is teaching the senior defender (on the left in the video) the counter to the other schools cuts.

[@inthedenoftigers5702]

That was my take. It looks like a push cut to the neck with the foible of the sword rather than a cut to the torso. The question therefore is more about Japanese armour and if it traditionally had bevors or gorgets to deviate push cuts to the neck.

[@daiaimaru5618]

Thanks 🐜

[@SengokuStudies]

I have been fascinated by Katori Shinto Ryu since I was in my teens. While I was living in japan, I was interviewed for a magazine and asked what my favorite koryu was. I said that was tough, and there were many I found interesting. But at the top of my list would have to be Katori Shinto Ryu and Takenouchi Ryu. When it comes to the kata of the ryuha, what you see is often not what is meant to be. Since I am not a member of the ryuha, however, anything more I say would be speculation.

[@AntonyCummins]

I also like the school. It’s a bit deeper than others in certain ways

[@SamuraiJames]

My guess would be that those cuts are intended to become a thrust aimed at the armpit or outer / upper edge of the chest - particularly if they said they modify them for public display. If the opponent is not wearing a nodawa or mempo / hanbo / etc with a tare to protect the neck, the upper part of the chest can be vulnerable. They may have supplemental armor under their do (body armor). It would be situational based on exactly what armor the opponent wears, as there is a substantial variety it could be. If the opponent raises their arm to defend against the incoming strike, then that also opens up their armpit to a thrust. If not that, then thrusting towards where the kote are laced together. It's a small target, but if the opponent is focused on defense you can focus on the attack. If the thrust fails, you can move to grappling / tanto / etc once you're in range. (Not a Katori Shinto Ryu practitioner; I do have HEMA experience in medieval European armor, and own / wear samurai armor. I've fought against many variants of European armor, having to evaluate tactics accordingly. Very similar principles.)

[@TopLob]

This is wrong.

[@kristoffernordlund8392]

I dont know much about this. but aint it the tip of the sword that count? and in that case it always stops at the left shoulder or armpit. It actually looks like the right guy corrects the left guy when he ends on the right shoulder.

[@warrennass24]

Hi, Antony, this a question I am asking myself. I will spread the video to my teachers as I am still in learning and practising the kata and am not qualified to answer so I will get back to with some answer and hopefully my teachers will help you.

[@AntonyCummins]

Cheers warren

[@warrennass24]

Hi again Antony, Warren here the wrist is cut and is no longer capable of holding his weapon, the last cut is ritualised as a cut to the neck and finishing at heart. Curtsey of Hanshi Patrick McCarthy, who just informed me that Sugino Yoshio said the leap maybe a bump to displace the balance of the opponent.

[@warrennass24]

With the last cut at neck, I would say it finishes at heart.