Guitars Are Luxury Items Now

[@kma6881]

“Can be outdone by a $20 Casio.” As someone who is into watches and loves Casio/Oceanus, this is one of my favorite things I’ve heard.

[@mrnogot4251]

“I have two dollars and … a Casio.”

[@freddyray6805]

I love a good casio, g shock

[@sole__doubt]

Well that operates under the incorrect assumption that people wear watches because they accurately tell time. Thats probably on the bottom of the list of reasons why people buy watches today, we have cell phones that do that already.

[@TheAntiburglar]

I feel like guitars have *been* a luxury item in this vein for a fair few years at this point. It seems like a growing trend to be sure, but even 20 years ago it felt to me like the big names were starting to coast on the name alone for high pricing, rather than functional and useful tools

[@yannamengual2777]

Yeah, it's called "Legend"

[@frankwebster9110]

Hundred percent agree. I've had this feeling for quite some time as well. Seeing budget guitars coming out with high quality fit and finish on frets, fret ends, rolled fretboard edges, locking tuners, quality pots, and wiring, roasted maple for necks, bone or other quality nuts and great finishes. There are actually quite a few budget friendly/high quality guitars out there that offer even more than what the big G and F brands offer at less than half the price. The Sire Larry Carlton line of copies is pretty fantastic. You are only missing on bragging rights of the logo on the headstock. I think Gibson is the biggest "luxury" guitar maker. I love the guitars and the history but, the cost isn't really worth it to me. I bought my SG standard from the Demo shop and got a great deal. I love the guitar very much but, I've often wondered if there is a better one out there for less than 1.5k. The good news is that it will hold its value fairly well so long as I take care of it. The same could be said for a Sire though probably. Just like new cars, they take a hit as soon as they leave the lot but, they should still hold value.

[@scott6588]

Every item that isn't a necessity will have tier levels to create demand even though there are diminished returns. We play guitar so it sticks out when there's fluctuating prices. Reality is, these guys are pretty young and not experienced enough to recall every cycle of the economy. Numbers may seem disproportionate compared to the prior peaks and valleys, but that also aligns with population and portion of population where something like rock music is a prominent part of our culture.

[@frankwebster9110]

@scott6588 Gibson notoriously over prices purely on brand recognition. Some may consider an epiphone a budget friendly option, but with the lack of qc and shorcuts,they aren't near as good as other brands in the same price range. Many of these come already set up and intonated with great QC straight out of the box. Not so much for epiphone. I picked up a few of them at the Gibson Garage to see if I liked any of them. All of them had the action of a classical nylon stringed acoustic. While that is something I can fix myself, it makes me wonder how much other standard guitar qc was overlooked. It kinda blew me away that guitars with such obvious neglect were on the Gibson flagship store floor. I know there are fine Epi's out there that are a fantastic value, but it is a gamble to get the great one and not the dog that sucks to play... I say check out the Sire Larry Carlton line. Great qc with quality parts and extras that you don't even see on high-end Gibsons or Fender and they are reasonably priced.

[@ashleyjohansson230]

Compared to violins and saxaphones and many other classical instruments where 7000 dollars is a "baseline model"? Not really lol

[@TylerJohnstonGuitar]

The watch community is very similar to the guitar community. For every guy who watches a video about modding a Les Paul, there’s probably someone out there who watches a Rolex restoration. We all have our things.

[@presmasterflash7555]

What if I watch a video of a guy restoring a fender? What’s the watch guy watching?!?

[@imwastedhere]

​@@presmasterflash7555probably a vintage Swiss watch lol no particular brand lol from personal experience

[@imwastedhere]

Yeah lol I like guitar mod videos and watch restoration videos lol

[@TylerJohnstonGuitar]

@@presmasterflash7555 Tag Heuer lol I think that’s the only other watch brand I can name.

[@ed4008]

I love a god Rolex restoration video !!

[@gregoryhaire4322]

Great video. I’ve been a guitarist for over 30 years and most guitars I’ve sold either made a loss or broke even with the exception of Gibson Les Paul which I made £300 on. One time I was gushing over a lovely relic custom shop strat, showed it to friend who knows nothing about guitars who said “that must be cheap then as it’s all beat up!” So luxury guitars are definitely for guitar nerds only 😊

[@Dreyno]

I once played a custom shop Ronnie Montrose Les Paul in a shop. €5,400. It sounded great but I would’ve bought an R9 and put my own wear on it. Could never appreciate a relic-ed guitar.

[@carlkermode899]

@@Dreyno I've never understood relicing. I like things to look shiny and new. You wouldn't relic a car.

[@WinstonWhite-l9j]

@@carlkermode899 To me, relic isn’t for looks, I just like the feel of a worn guitar, sort of like comparing a new baseball glove to a well used one

[@Dreyno]

@@WinstonWhite-l9j Buy a real used one. Preferably that you’ve used yourself. Not one someone has went at with sandpaper, steel wool and an oily rag.

[@keesketsers5866]

@@carlkermode899 Yes they do.... rat rods. Do you wear jeans? If so, they are most probably pre-washed or in other words "reliced". It happens way more than you would think.

[@SyzygyEmbrace]

I joined several guitar groups when I was shopping around for gear instead of practicing. The one common thing all high end guitar brand groups have its that no one post videos of themselves playing, unless they are recording/gigging musicians. Budget guitar/gear groups have more people actively posting self recorded sound samples or play throughs even if they don’t have dedicated recording gear.

[@KDH]

That’s a great observation, never thought of that but you’re right.

[@mohamedtlass3842]

It’s just because of the effort required to film properly when most just want to talk

[@GlynDwr-d4h]

Squire players of the world unite

[@Kburn1985]

The second you post any playing in the high end brand groups, they'll smash you and criticise every single aspect, as if they can play better than evh. In fact, evh is seen as low class and crass in those group, only gilmour or Beatles are the only acceptable ones. Hendrix is also seen as sub par for reasons I know, you know but cannot be said out loud. They're all insufferable.

[@bassyey]

It's because most high-end owners can't play even if their life depended on it lol. That's what happens when you buy for aesthetics and the clout. They will always be outplayed by that kid wanking with an Epiphone/Squier lol.

[@information_paradox]

I'm putting together my first custom guitar right now. A flying V parts guitar I've been planning for almost 20 years. When I worked at Guitar Center, I mentioned my plan to my coworkers and one of them (who was/is very much into PRS) went out of their way to inform me that it wouldn't be worth anything without a big name on the headstock. In my head I was thinking to myself, it's a tool for me to play music not a 401k.

[@TTSWINC]

As an esp owner that has followed the brand since the 90s, there is a TON of confusion about the brand. Mostly because of ESP themselves. I might suggest a deep dive into that chaos. PS- the same Japanese guy who owns ESP, also owns Schecter. The mindfuck goes deeper. Love my ESP though!

[@barry3045]

I’d love to see a deep dive into the esp company

[@terran236]

No wonder. I love Schecter and ESP paint jobs. They just look good. And feel good.

[@infoscholar5221]

This is why Xavierre, Thomann, Grote, and yes, Glarry, and other "Off-brands" are stepping up and making comparable guitars at affordable prices. I own several Fenders, and a couple Epiphones, but I;ve bought a slew of high-quality off-brands during the Pandemic, and I won't go back. An upgrade component here and there, and you're good.

[@markdoolan3424]

I prefer my HB fusion 3 to the Ibanez AZ so would agree!

[@kremepye3613]

What you guys recommend as iff brands? Ive tried a few and they always seem to have obe problem or another

[@doocies]

@@kremepye3613 Firefly has some awesome guitars for dirt cheap and play fantastic, Harley Benton is also very good as well.

[@markdoolan3424]

@@kremepye3613 Depends on where you live? Thomann offer free shpping in Europe over £150 so Harley Bentons are a good deal!

[@kremepye3613]

@markdoolan3424 in northern scandinavia! I loved my harley benton tele but the winter just butchered the neck, and the g&l and fender mim i got i found to just have very poor quality control. Today i actually got a sire t7 dropped off and was jaw dropped by the quality control! 😳 im hoping the frets wont sprout in the winter like the others!!

[@mikepodorski4272]

The auto market is doing a very similar thing, at least here in the States. Jeep, for example, has been a utiltarian workhorse. Now they are selling Grand Cherokees for over $100k USD. Most manufacturers only sell high end trim on flagship models, with very few entry level cars to be found. Its all about driving profit. I'm all for profitability, but eventually you run out of big spenders. The first car company that brings a reasonably valued car to market will clean up going forward, just like the affordable guitar brands like Sire.

[@reymhd7655]

it’s not just guitar companies, Roland (the synth brand) is releasing their own clothing line under “Roland Lifestyle”, moog (also a synth brand) is releasing “streetwear-ish” merch as well. it’s the new thing even with most musical instrument companies

[@VLVanDerMerwe]

Great video, informative, articulate and excellent points. KDH is one of the very best channels on KZbin.

[@lemmykilmister7603]

Speaking of vanity with names on headstocks reminds me of my personal ESP. Its a 1998 Horizion Standard, which was a budget ESP using the LTD eletronics and handware, but made in Japan. The headstock has the classic ESP logo, which is now only used on super high end custom guitars. Everyone always perceives it as a much higher end guitar than it actually is purely because of the headstock. As an aside though, if you look at ESP's catalogue archive and look at the 1998 catalogue my guitar is the EXACT one pictured, the finish and woodgrain is a 100% match.

[@S-T-E-V-E]

Good point! I hate the state of the current Guitar market, everything is over priced for what it is!

[@PhantomLink16]

I'm so glad I got my B.C. Rich ASM when I did back in 2010. EMG's, Neck Thru ebony fretboard, original floyd, grover tuners and a mahogany or alder body all for about $700 back then.

[@cyntdestroyer69xd]

There are dozens of cheap guitars with amazing quality, though - Harley Benton, Jackson, even some Ibanez guitars, like Ibanez Gio

[@Manicsar1]

in 1954 Fender launched the Stratocaster for 249.50 which is ruffly $2,300.00 today when calculating inflation. Guitars have mostly become more affordable over time.

[@dr.hawkraps8457]

You're right. Alot more companies making 🎸 today, verses the 1950s. Competition has a habit of driving down prices.🤘😆🤘

[@joeking433]

A Gibson guitar sold in 1920 was $250 which is roughly $4000 today. A Gibson Les Paul is basically $2500 today.

[@circedge]

In 1954 that Fender involved less but more cumbersome machinery and the precision wasn't comparable to today, and now it's also a more competitive market. Of course the price will go down. That said, the customer should demand more, as you're getting the same trash with a few incremental improvements.

[@Manicsar1]

@@circedge Fender uses much of the same machinery as they did back in the 50s. If you're looking for technical improvements, the Yamaha Revstar would be an excellent example of a guitar with loads of modern tech behind it. Also, nothing coming out of Corona California is trash...

[@ithemba]

the point is: nowadays there is modern machinery that makes manifaturing a goddamn guitar way way way more efficient and affordable - just like with quartz watches. modern guitars are both made cheaper AND more consistently overall in the standard manifacturing lines sub custom shop level. A modern day Indonesian guitar of mid price range has a bigger probability of coming out of the factory perfect than the famed Japanese or even American Models of yesteryear, because the overall spread of quality is smaller with modern machinery. (Some brands still mess up and modern giant mailorder shops don't help either because they usually cant compete with the QC of the smaller music shops of yorn). We tend to have a HUGE survivors bias towards these old fender and gibson guitars - just because only the good ones survived that long. There famously were gigantic fluctuations on quality and virtually every spec of these guitars back then, including big differences in windings on pickup wire on the legendary PAFs. Most of the legendary Strat Players like David Gilmour and Eric Clapton famously swapped Necks on their strats frequently because they disliked the other ones. The only reasons to spent upwards of 1500 to 2k on a guitar is luxury value.

[@joefromaccounting7818]

Absolutely true, built a Squier Tom Delonge Strat just before Tom went back to Fender. Spent significantly less turning the Squier into Tom’s guitar than the re-release Strat and not only does it sound just the same, but my non guitar playing friends think it’s the exact same model as the Fender

[@DrTruckster]

E2 guitars have become little more desirable for me only for the name. My name is "Eetu" and it's really close to E2 and would be really fun to have that on the headstock. Guitar named after me, a dream to chase.

[@simonpark843]

This is one of the best videos you've made. You're always honest and entertaining, but your comments here are genuinely insightful - you've touched on this before (Gibson's attempts to become a 'lifestyle brand'), but I agree with your comments. The big companies have been pushing this they first started making their 'Custom Shop' guitars (Fender began in the late 1980's, Gibson in the early 90's), which were always aimed at people with very healthy bank accounts. The guitar-as-investment idea is something I've never understood. I have only owned one guitar that's gone up in value and I didn't buy it as an investment, that was a complete accident - I bought it because I liked playing it. It's a gamble I don't think will pay off for them simply because there are only so many people who can afford these super-expensive guitars. If people stop caring about the artists who rent out their fame to companies like Gibson, Fender, etc...they're going to become irrelevant. That might open things up for newer companies so it might be better for the guitar-playing public...but this is an excellent video. Thank you.

[@paulsadoff3661]

I think that the watch/guitar comparison is spot on. New custom shop guitars are out of most people' price range and are therefore 'luxury items'. Buying any of these custom shop guitars new is not a good investment in the short term ,maybe not in the long term in most cases. Still, I do feel that some of the Gibson and Fender custom shop guitars made recently are the best instruments they have ever produced. At the prices they are asking I guess they had better be ! picking up one of these guitars on the used market is often a lot more cost effective .

[@kesamek8537]

I'm a $9 Casio and Warmoth guitar person, because I like perfect performance and nothing else.

[@MrZardoz777]

Fender still has a sweet-spot with the Player and Player Plus models, but I did notice when you "upgrade" to the least expensive American strat you actually lose features . . . no locking tuners, no noiseless pickups, the large headstock that few people want, and all you get is a "Made in USA" sticker for your hundreds of dollars.

[@joeking433]

I always liked my American Strats far more than my Mexican Strats. I have two of each right now and I'd gladly pay extra for the American ones based on playing value alone let alone the better status, buying American, and resale value. I don't know how they do it but the American guitars are just sound far better than the Mexican ones, IMO.

[@omgdisfunny4852]

would you rather have a strat made in mexico by Mexicans, or a strat made in the usa by Mexicans

[@joeking433]

@@omgdisfunny4852 It's not Mexicans who make American Fenders, it's Americans.

[@omgdisfunny4852]

@@joeking433 no, its "made in America" not "made by Americans"

[@adt501]

​@@joeking433Fender often flys employees from their Mexican plant to their California plant by helicopter, so there's a good chance Mexicans built your American Fender too

[@portagenial]

I hate when speculators and resellers take over an industry, they raise the price incredibly for the average consumer, and drive low income fans out of the hobby. It happened with pokemon cards, it happened with retro video games and it happened with guitars. Now these are not things you play, you invest, save them in a crystal box until someone else comes and buys it from you. Ruining the market for people who want to, you know, play them for their intended use.

[@frankwebster9110]

Exactly. This is a huge part of the problem. However with the prices of say a LP standard, there should be the absolute highest of QC. Not often the case. My SG standard came with enough saw dust in the control cavity to make the pots a problem. I have to clean then way too often.. I have seen problems on 5-6k custome shops that shouldn't be. Even if I were in the position to drop that much on one, I wouldn't because I know the same qualities will be on the standards. Going one further, I will likely make a high-quality budget guitar for my next purchase. Eastman makes a fantastic LP. They are still a little pricey but, they are actually better than the original...

[@84homey]

I would (respectfully) disagree that this is what is happening for guitars. As a 57 year old who actually sold guitars in the 80s (Soho Soundhouse when it was in Soho Square, for anyone who might remember), I have never seen a better time for hard-up musicians to be able to purchase a low cost guitar that sounds good, feels good, and doesn't fall apart. You can get a really very playable guitar and amp for $150 each these days. And for improvers there are hundreds of choices for really very good guitars (and amps) in the $500 to $1,000 range. For professionals, $1,000 to $2,000 absolute max will get you all you could possibly actually need. So a beginner could kit themselves out for $300, an improver for $1,000 and a professional or enthusiast for $2,000. There is really no need to go higher than those figures except by choice. Of course if you happen to WANT to spend more money you absolutely can (and I have done so myself), but want is not the same as need if we're honest. In summary, if you're prepared to go beyond the Fender or Gibson brand names then we have never had such a wide range of guitars and amps to choose from, made at such high quality levels, and sold at such low price points as we see currently. One man's opinion FWIW. Happy playing to all!

[@216Numbskull]

AKA "Capitalism" my friends that's the way we roll in the U.S. Which is there for the taking for everyone in this free market economy we live in. So, Giddy Up & Go Get Some! +Peace, Funk & Rock n' Roll 4 Your Souls+. \m/(*.*)\m/

[@ChrisP3000x]

"out of the hobby" Exactly what hobby are you referring to?

[@frankwebster9110]

@@ChrisP3000x speaking about guitars,so I am going to go out on a limb and say guitar playing. I don't know. Maybe he meant playing piano or painting landscapes... C'mon Chris

[@markbrooks8623]

I'm glad to see someone make this point. A Rolex is a very expensive inferior watch. And so are several expensive guitars that are currently being marketed.

[@geoffcasias9367]

Very solid analysis. Luxury guitars have always existed just maybe less well known. Lot of guitarist from the big bands from the 70s and 80s would often have high end art piece guitars so I dont think that part is new. But I think your point about the cheaper guitars are a lot better these days is a huge point. When I was younger, some of the cheaper Ibanezes, Schecters and LTDs weren't great compared to the high end counter parts at the time but with modern tooling, basically all lower end guitars play great these days. In the last 10 years every time I pick up an extremely affordable guitar at a shop I'm blown away and wished the quality on cheap guitars was like that when I was learning. For the really high end stuff like plus $5k Jacksons, Fenders, etc, they wouldn't be selling them at the price if there wasn't a market so there is an interesting point to consider. Given how much of the last 60 years of music has been largely guitar based, inevitably there are going to a small percent of extremely wealthy hobby musicians and music fans that have the disposable income to buy a $20k PRS as an art piece or because Satriani played it once at a gig or something.

[@craigshewchuk9018]

It's insane how good guitars have gotten, I got a $180 Kramer Barretta at music and arts, the only thing that I changed was to put a Seymour Duncan in it (the Duncan I found off FB for $40, Lee Sona wound humbucker) and locking tuners, also cheap upgrade. I have some nice guitars too, gibsons fenders, hamers, bc rich, so I do have a comparison but yea I couldn't believe how nice the Kramer was for so cheap

[@geoffcasias9367]

@@craigshewchuk9018 I played one of those in a pink or purple finish and really enjoyed it. I was tempted to pick it up even though I dont need it.

[@craigshewchuk9018]

@@geoffcasias9367 they are a good guitar to have for shred stuff or rhythm playing, I wired mine so it's no tone pots, straight volume pot and out so it gets a good bite or cut, loud

[@rascalhoudi5689]

I first started to play guitar was in 1974. The American dollar went much further then than now, even taking account for inflation in the mix. My first guitar was (if I can remember),a japanese strat-looking thing with 3 slide switches for the pickups and one volume and one tone pot. My second was a reverse-firebird by Harmony. Sounded great and had pretty good playability, but was heavy and really unbalanced. Contestant number three was my good guitar, a natural blond color Ibanez Bob Weir model Artist Series. Had a black hardwood fingerboard and some really nice artificial mother-of-pearl scrollwork on the fingerboard. Looked sort of like half of John McGlaughlins custom doubleneck. I had to sell that for cash for a car. Then in 1984 I got my first real Strat (used '71 tobacco tri-color sunburst) for $380 and had about $400+ of work done to it. I vowed after then to learn how to do all that stuff. In 2002, it and my amp were stolen (nicked as some say) from a house I lived in and never recovered. If you look at the income classes back then, the majority of the kids that took up guitar and continued to play it even if to only up to the bar/pub scene were kids from lower to middle income families. The kids with rich parents got really good gear in their first go at it, as opposed to the kids with less financial means got really used-abused stuff or lower shelf stuff if it was new. The rich kids went off to college and their stuff gathered dust in the basement or attic until a cousin or niece had shown interest, or the rich "no-more" player sold it for money to party on, or whatever. Lower and middle class kids didn't have the funds if they didn't qualify for a student loan, so continuing to play guitar just might get them some sort of income once out of the parents house. Not to many "famous" guitarists are from upper income classes, and if they were it is not part of their interview material. So look where most guitarists come from. Nowadays, what kid can afford a decent guitar now. Pawnshop maybe, but pawnbrokers know the position the kids are in nowadays. Now I have 2 Strat look-alikes I put together with the parts I've accumulated. It's the only way I will do it from now on. I even have been learning to make my own pedals. The major companies can go intercourse off. Kids in the area know I play, and they have brought me their used Squiers and such and I make it play as easy and sound good as I can. I don't charge for the labor, but I have their parents get the parts and/or I teach the kid how to wheel and deal and trade up for what's needed. And now that the small dealers mom/pop places have closed because of Guitar Center and large online warehouses, the kids have nowhere to go to strike up a more personal relationship with owners/moms and pops to make a deal with them. The place I got my gear from when I was younger, the owner would make a deal with kids like vacuum my floor, clean the trash up outside for "x" amount of time and here's what I'll do. He even had one kid tutor his kid and deducted the pay from what the kids balance was! Mind you, these kids came back as loyal customers for years to come. This is one of the other reasons for the sad state of rock and roll.

[@mohamedtlass3842]

“Intercourse off” 🤣

[@DjCzubaka]

I think you're right And I think it's actually a good thing. Using watch analogy you used: it's good that anyone can buy a watch that does it's job, keeps time. It's good that you can buy a HB guitar that's gigable, and can perform in a studio! If you want, you can buy a rolex or a customshop fender, but you don't have to break a bank to buy something that is "pro" quallity

[@clouds5]

Guitars are the same as many other product lines. People love crazy Ferraris and Porsches but if you are a professional driver that is in the car every day, you buy something that is cost efficient, easy to repair and comfortable. The exact opposite of a Ferrari :D I feel the same about my guitars. As a professional who takes his instrument everywhere and needs to adapt to many different settings, I have no use for a barely functioning relic 20k$ super heavy Les Paul. I don't believe in expensive gear. A guitar from PRS or Yamaha or something that is around 1000$ is completely fine and usable for a professional and active player. The instrument is a tool, and the most important thing is that is shouldn't hinder you in any way.

[@robmurrah3224]

7:31 it probably has fret buzz like most Fenders.

[@kevin_lanthier]

Great video and thoughts. One humble criticism, though - the watch preamble didn't seem like a strange or bizarre tangent at all, the "stay with me" / "I'm sure that seems unrelated" appeals/disclaimers were unnecessary. It was clear where you were going, the analogy made sense and at least for myself, I feel more appreciated as an audience by having my intelligence presumed. Appreciate what you do!

[@thebigb3ard]

I've always perceived guitars, especially electric guitars, as luxury items. I suppose it's a perspective thing in that sense. The first time I ever saw an electric guitar in the flesh was at a fairly well off friends house. I couldn't believe that he had one. It seemed almost otherworldly to me. About a year later I managed to persuade my mum n dad to get me one from a catalogue. Luckily enough it was a fender squier and not an encore. It was the most amazing thing that I ever owned. I also had a Casio calculator watch, and I thought that was pretty luxurious as well. I know that this is different to what you are talking about though.

[@Christopher_Giustolisi]

when was that? In the 80s cheap guitars were all crap. To buy a decent one you had to be well off or save a lot of money.

[@Pikilloification]

@@Christopher_Giustolisi Squiers were pretty good from the get go. I'd even say some of the really early ones were almost on par with the fenders

[@Rex-golf_player810]

​@@Christopher_Giustolisithank god cheap guitars are so good these days lololol

[@burnoutzzz]

​@@Christopher_Giustolisi​ there were a good handful of Japanese brands that made amazing cheap af guitars in the 70s and 80s, before Gibson sued their asses lol

[@metallsnubben]

@@Pikilloification There was even a little while where both Squiers and Fenders were all made in Japan and pretty much identical

[@MashaT22]

I always love the way you really put a lot of thought into each of your vids. This topic makes so much sense, and I totally agree. I understand why it’s happening . . . but it is very sad from a musician’s point of view. Guitars are not meant to be luxury items. If guitar brands want to go into fashion, that’s fine because it wouldn’t affect the price of guitars - but I don’t think I feel so great about taking musical instruments and “elevating” them into a luxury item rather than letting them function and be priced as a music making tool. In other words, guitar brands should have left well enough alone with their main and budget brands and created a newer third brand to elevate as a luxury piece - for instance, Epiphone/Gibson remain as they always have at the same price points as the music making instruments and create a new much higher priced “McCarty by Gibson” line to encrust, paint as art, and use as wall decorations for rich people. I realize there is perceived value in tradition, but people who are not musicians won’t care about the esteemed historical value behind Gibson and Epiphone if they just want a flashy show piece. Art collectors will only care about the artist making the piece (ie: encrusting the guitar with jewels and painting scenery on it) as opposed to the brand name of a longtime music brand being written on the headstock - so if you got Chiluly to make a glass encrusted guitar, collectors won’t care if it says Gibson because they have no association with the music brand’s history anyway as non-musicians. These art collectors would be fine if you make a new brand name for their piece because they care more about the artists that worked on it and would start to learn that “McCarty by Gibson” has incredible music inspired art pieces. They could paint “Piece ‘O Crap” on the headstock so long as it’s a show piece and/or has had a major artist who touched it. That being said, I think these guitar brands we all know and love as a whole kinda ruined a great thing for musicians who truly care about these esteemed instruments we can no longer afford. Brands like ESP and all else really didn’t have to price their guitars like luxury items had they just created a brand new luxury name that is loosely connected to the instrument brand or not connected at all while being a line that is totally separate. And like I said, people buying clothing that have major guitar brands written in it is a whole other industry that really shouldn’t affect the price of guitars. To the contrary, had it be done as a totally separate or loosely associated entity, these luxury items/brands should actually be helping to decrease the cost of guitars while making better quality instruments - and there would still be plenty left over to line the pockets of the guitar executives to show off their homes and vacations on Instagram.

[@AznagPT]

Buffet Crampton (Woodwind instruments) and Selmer (Metal instruments) were "normal" brands and now are luxury ones. Same thing goes for Gibson and Fender nowadays.

[@DanMan-u1b]

Selmer makes saxophones and clarinets - though made of brass a saxophone IS a woodwind instrument. 🙂 But otherwise you are right: these brand are expensive (and always were). However, unless you choose Thomann's saxes and other beginner brands you will find that practically all known sax brands have pretty hefty price tags even within the intermediate range of horns. Being both a guitar and a sax player I can confirm that the feel and quality difference between a never cheaper name (but ok) guitar vs. a high end guitar is nothing compared to the difference between a cheap sax and one made by a reputable brand - also due to the many moving parts of the instrument.

[@AznagPT]

@@DanMan-u1b Saxophones are indeed a woodwind instrument because of the reed. I played tenor saxophone for some years but have a Yamaha one. I just didn't want to overcomplicate my comment. 👍😎

[@DanMan-u1b]

@@AznagPT Yamaha is a fantastic sax brand! From beginner over intermediate to pro horns the Yamaha quality is always tip top. Keep playing and best wishes 😎

[@joeldeutscher7077]

I agree with everything you've said, but think you missed one last factor though. Let's be real - guitarists themselves contribute to this "luxury" attitude too. I've got a 1995 PRS Custom 22 and have had it for nearly two decades. I've toured America with it 7 times and played it on 3 different continents. It's got clearcoat flaking off and chunks of wood missing from it. It's a battle-axe. Most people think the wear makes it cool...except other guitarists, who give me crap for "abusing" the instrument. It's used, not abused - I've got a luthier with over 40 years of experience who keeps it in tip-top playing condition for me. But still...the attitude persists. Guitarists themselves forget that these are tools. Would you cry if you nick your hammer when driving in a nail?

[@216trixie]

In the mid-seventies my first decent Yamaha acoustic was about $300. About the same price now. Minimum wage than was about a buck seventy-five an hour.

[@davidconnelly]

That was the most insightful video in the history of the guitar genre on KZbin. If what he's saying is right then it'll soon be the norm for standard Strats to sell for over twenty grand. Speaking of Strats, this new theory also goes some way to explaining why Fender pulled Standard Strats a few years ago. I predict massive price hike for several major guitar brands.

[@caleykelly]

This is true. Also true is that there are has never been a better time to buy an affordable guitar that is very serviceable.

[@rabomarc]

13:06 I think it's an absolutely rubbish move from ESP. E-II has no brand recognition. If anything, LTD is now a stronger brand name than E-II. It might inflate the value of guitars called ESP but it might also make people previously interested in getting the ESP standard range to go elsewhere. I'm in the market for a superstrat now and now a high end Ibanez RG makes just so much more sense than something called E-II. Call me a snob but I don't want a guitar that says E-II on the headstock. Imagine Fender calling everything they make except the custom shop an F-II or something.

[@_NoDrinkTheBleach]

When I look at the current prices of guitars I bought five to eight years ago, I really wonder if that kind of value has been added in the intervening years. I bought a PRS in 2018 for just a hair under $3k. I have never bought a guitar for that much money and will likely never again buy a guitar for that much money. The cheapest one (same color and trim level) currently available on Sweetwater is $4900. As much as I like Paul and his guitars, I really have to question the motivation to put the core level guitars out of reach for normal people. They're supposed to be an edge of luxury purchase, not a premium luxury purchase. At some point the dentist guitar will have no real distinction from what is supposed to be the standard.

[@gamezharks]

With ESP you can also get into Edwards, Navigator, Xtone, good lord there's alot of brands under ESP. Anyways shoutout to Ibanez for still being a guitar company over a lifestyle brand.

[@joeking433]

ESP makes $20 million a year. Fender makes $750 million and Gibson around $900 million a year. Even PRS makes more than ESP, around $75 million a year.

[@adriangrizzly]

Ibanez released chopsticks yesterday so I guess they are on their way

[@blueocean702]

Our only safe bet as a valuable investment for the future are Bonamassa Garden Gnomes.

[@sroelit]

I still tend to associate “tools” as something “necessary in the practice of a vocation or profession.” That means-at least in my opinion-that guitars are and have been luxury items for the vast majority of us for, well, always. (As a side note, you might be amazed at how many people would be unable to read many of the things you might find on a luxury watch-including the time.)

[@Turbo-D]

i`m so glad that i bought all of my favourite guitars (and gear) before post apocalyptic corona price mayhem happened! 😎😎

[@84homey]

Great show as ever, thank you! I would say that if anything the trend towards guitars as fashion statements or purely as art rather than a tool is a good thing for guitar players. Making guitars trendy to own means more people will be interested in and ultimtaely will buy guitars at all levels. More guitars being sold creates a market that manufacturers will want to compete in. More manufacturers and higher competition will bring better quality products and lower prices. And by the way I would say that this together with the rise of Chinese and other Eastern countries improving their manufacturing abilities, plus the online selling phenomenon, has driven the entry level down for good guitars (and amps too) at affordable prices. I reckon we've never had it so good, personally. No one HAS to have a Kirk Hammett limited edition guitar. No one NEEDS a Kirk Hammett limited edition guitar. But I am more than happy for such things to exist though I have no particular wish to own one.

[@cmmooney564]

I own a few exceptional guitars that didn’t cost the earth but recently I bought a Glarry Tele lookalike for £38 from Wish, just to see what I’d get for that crazy low price and, to my amazement, I got a nice looking, perfectly set up guitar that sounds exactly as a Fender Tele would. Ok, the neck is a bit chunkier, the hardware may deteriorate faster and who knows if it’ll last as well as my 87 Epiphone Sheraton but those industrious gentlemen in Glarry definitely gave me a whole lot more than £38 worth of guitar. I also own a Redwood jazz box that I only paid £140 (Redwood SA1CE) for and that too is exceptional in its own right, I bought it initially because I was looking for a decent jazz guitar but was having trouble finding the right one, I’m selling the more expensive one now because I genuinely prefer my Redwood. I no longer see the point in spending big money on guitars because I simply don’t see that you get value for money from premium brands, they aren’t usually bad but they certainly aren’t good enough to justify the prices charged.

[@joeking433]

It's really not that easy to differentiate guitars. They're all roughly made the same with the same materials and hardware. I have bought $100 guitars that sound and play close to as well my $2000 guitars. It used to be really hard to make a guitar back in the early 1900's with only hand tools but with today's machines it's simple and cheap to make near perfect guitars.

[@cmmooney564]

You make a good point, I recently said that the main difference between affordable guitars and more expensive ones was the amount of time spent on finishing them but I now realise that that isn’t even the case now, my Glarry arrived beautifully set up and unblemished.

[@GlynDwr-d4h]

I bought a Squire Bullet Mustang for 150 bucks and it's great lol. I have some mid level and even a few higher end guitars to compare it to and while it doesn't necessarily stack up to the American Pro II Tele Deluxe or the Les Paul Standard I own, it's a perfectly playable guitar without having to do much to it and even has pretty good sounding stock humbuckers. I think if I put some money into this thing and turned it into a parts caster or whatever, I could get a killer guitar out of it without having to break the bank. But really, even without doing anything to it, it's still a fun guitar to play. Totally usable. That's unbelievable for how little it cost. When I started playing in the early 90s, bottom of the barrel guitars like this were utterly awful, not even in the same league as this thing.

[@joeking433]

@@GlynDwr-d4h But American guitars are just something to cherish rather than some guitar made by slave labor in some Asian factory. Yeah, a Squier Bullet is maybe 75% as good as an American Fender but it's worth supporting an American company if you can afford it. You'll get a better guitar as well as supporting people who make a decent wage

[@michaelmoore7975]

Have you seen the Gibson SG that was sold exclusively from Neiman-Marcus? It was a special $30,000 Billy Gibbons signature. Only 10 made. The body had special carving and the headstock was from the Flying V. The back control cover was in the shape of Texas.

[@johnnyxmusic]

That was a pretty awesome model.

[@MuscleCarLover]

I'm glad I look at used guitars. Not only are they usually a more reasonable price, but you can better tell what the finish is like when shopping online as the photos are typically of the actual example that's for sale (a far bigger thing for unpainted guitars, but still). Generally, I don't care too much if it's lightly used, so long as it wasn't thrashed

[@Kburn1985]

Too many fakes in the 2nd hand market, and this is coming from someone who regularly shops other 2nd hand goods and regularly spot fakes. Anything real will only be very marginally cheaper than brand new. I've even seen specialist consignment guitar shops selling fakes. A lot of fakes are undistinguishable from the real stuff these days unless you religiously look at forums and groups dedicated to spotting those, and even then, the pirates just use those posts as QC. The latest batch of ibanez JEMs, the pretty blue one has been faked to perfection in Ali express, literally no way to tell the most recent fakes in the last 2 years from the real thing, till it starts falling apart and peeling.

[@freddyray6805]

You are correct. If you think those are luxury prices, you should consider the import, exchange rates and final retail prices of Gibsons, PRS,Fender in Brazil. Then slap on the Brazil status symbol, vanity tax and the prices are 5 to 7 times the price of those in the US and Europe. And people still buy it as it is a luxury item to show off even if you are a s**t player.

[@wintyrqueen]

Yeah, it’s definitely a thing. The upside is you can get good parts to make a high spec guitar cheaply, if you’ve got the skill to put it together

[@TheTyrynir]

Idk, it cost me around $950 USD to make the one in my profile picture not including tools.

[@wintyrqueen]

@@TheTyrynir Probably cost about the same for each of mine… but they’d probably cost over $10k from a custom shop

[@JayCan-e8h]

Big guitar companies have been doing this before we were born and I'm 41 now.

[@MAP448]

Guitar companies have always offered varying degrees from tools all the way up to works of art. Markets have always been controlled by people with purchasing power. These 2 things, I don't believe, will ever change.

[@ithemba]

KDHs watch analogy makes the point however, than I find most striking with guitars: just like with quartz watches, nowadays we get cheaper AND better (in terms of quality control) guitars than in the 50s and 60s, and the more expansive guitars often have antiquated, artificially ardous (and therefore luxurious) procederes applied, to differentiate them from the cheaper alternatives - as a luxorious selling point. My go to reference is Nitro lacquer. Its objectively less effective in doing the job of a lacquer which is to seal and protect the wood. It scratches more easily than Polyethurane (guitarists say: it "ages"), it can have seriously bad reactions with stands or even some strapws and gigbacks. Even the edge of a soft leather strap can already seriously scratch your Gibson in the case. It significantly fades when it comes into contact with sunlight. It takes forever to apply in the workshop, literally weeks, making it a prime factor for the bigger pricing. Gibson especially is very aware of this antiquated lacquer being its most distinguishing factor, which is why they actually conciously add in perfume to enhance the "new Gibson smell".

[@papa_pt]

​@@ithembayou mention the job of lacquer, but not of an instrument.. which is to make pleasing music and sounds, generally. I believe there are correct ways to apply poly (maybe like PRS V12), but in general a thin coat of nitro doesn't deaden the wood as much. I was just reading about Eastman's antique varnish w French polish.. gotta try that In general I agree w what you're saying, especially for brands where cost/quality is relatively high like with Gibson. My MIJ Edwards of 10 years ago played better than nearly every US Standard for less than half the price.

[@jayartz8562]

​@@papa_ptTrue, the lower priced poly finishes tend to be way too thick and heavy, done right and light it can be good but probably need as much prep as nitro.

[@theonegoose]

This subject is why I buy second hand these days.

[@michelvondenhoff9673]

Would you gig with a 3k guitar? Gretsch,Ibanez and Squier are making some nice €400-600 guitars imho.

[@sixtring73]

You make a good point and I like the watch analogy being a watch nerd myself! Similarly, watches are also very much an example of diminishing returns. You can get a some great watches for reasonable money but as you pay more and more the increments in quality/accuracy diminish. With guitars, I'm really happy with my 'mid level' instruments. They are as good as they need to be and I wouldn't feel comfortable playing the blingy high end stuff anyway although they are beautiful to look at!

[@MercutioUK2006]

As a point in case, Epiphone are consistently producing models that are consistently over £1k that simply aren't worth the extra outlay - look at the Mustaine V vs. the Prophecy V - but the perception is of a higher quality item. The flipside is that there are brands diving into the beginner/"real" budget market but some are of quite uncertain provenance. The larger brands are certainly aiming, on the whole, for a higher price point with the commensurate cachet of ownership - so Luxury items without actually being significantly different. Precisely the same as the ESP/EII comparision you made. Overall prices on many items, not just guitars, have been inflated steadily for a couple of years and the knock-on effect is that as more items (even staples such as food, petrol/diesel, clothing etc) increase in price, items and services are increased across the board in order for the retailer/manufacturer/tradesman etc to enjoy a certain standard of living........feels like a vicious catch-22.

[@Dreyno]

They have been for some time. Basically since the 90s. As soon as good guitars started coming from Korea and Mexico etc. Fender and Gibson started jacking up the price of American made guitars and emphasising the pedigree, the prestige and the “magic”. They also brought about custom shops to charge silly money for “hand built” guitars. And as €150 guitars become shockingly good, they need to lean on that exclusiveness more and more, even stretching to their “budget” brands.

[@Dreyno]

@@joriankell1983 Because the vintage ones were made in America. There’s no technical difference although sometimes they use slightly higher grade parts to justify it. Personally I have a Mexican Strat, a Korean Casino and a Chinese Tele as well as two US built Gibsons. The Chinese Tele is just as well made as the US made Les Paul which is the best of the bunch.

[@Dreyno]

@@joriankell1983 I didn’t say it wasn’t. I stated clearly why I believe people are happy to pay more for a U.S. made guitar. I said it wasn’t based on quality. And I specified my Les Paul because my US made SG wasn’t as good as the Chinese built Tele.

[@AnMuiren]

Au contraire, mon frère😄 I'm 66, started playing in 1967, it wasn't long before I realized how insanely important what guitar you play was as a status symbol among many players then and now.

[@ollimoore]

There are guitars from the Baroque period which are obscenely highly decorated status pieces, that aspect isn’t new even if the emphasis on brand name status might be. (comparatively speaking, at least) Fancy pearl inlays all over a guitar have never been about improving usefulness as a tool, and, back when that was exclusively being done by hand, certainly wasn’t a cheap option either. Also, this would be noticeable to non musicians. This is something that’s changed in recent times as machine cutting, imitation materials and veneers have brought over-the-top fancy aesthetics to much lower price points.

[@johnnyxmusic]

Let them eat MOTO!

[@eldenthing1]

I'm both a watch collector and a guitar collector. I think the main issue is that most artists actualy cant afford expensive guitars... they're not making enough money. No, the people driving this is the same people as me... the collectors. Most of us can barely hit a chord :D :D :D I have the same porblem with bikes, cars, fishing equipment... i've reached stupid levels and cant use any of it to its full potential. Bottom line is i think you're right, but the mass market isn't there in the same way as watches, or art. On a sidenote, i will never consider Fender or Gibson high end, is that just me?

[@roytofilovski9530]

You wear a watch, so making some of them as status pieces makes sense. They are like jewellery.

[@williamsmith9561]

My son is a working guitarist who never buys an instrument by what is written on the headstock. For him, it's all about how the tool works. This is a brilliant observation and a spot on comparison with the watch industry. The genius of what the guitar companies are doing is selling a lifestyle to people with money who can only strum three chords. For someone who can't play guitar, it is a useless object, but then again, people with money are willing to pay a lot for useless objects as long as they are desirable. Rolex used to be a tool watch company. They are now selling "tool watches," at ridiculous prices to people who don't use tools because they are desirable.

[@yucatansuckaman5726]

As a squier playing, gshock wearing guy, I found this topic interesting.

[@PainkillerX12]

The most insane thing is the LTD Gary Holt priced 2649€... It's even more expensive than the Kirk Hamett same-shaped guitar (1899€), and oh boy does the "Kirk Hamett" tag sells ! (the 16 000€ Gibson KH Flying V enters the chat...) Like Gary Holt is a great player but did ESP really expect to sell his signature model under the LTD brand for an ESP E-II price ? WTF bros...

[@johnmclaughlin763]

Great video. Very interesting. I have a very expensive Heritage. I bought it because I had the money and it played, looked and sounded great. I have two expensive American Fenders. I bought them because I had the money and they played, looked and sounded great. I have an American Gibson and an American Gretsch. I bought them because I had the money and they played, looked and sounded great. I have a bunch of cheaper guitars that I bought because I had the money and they played, looked and sounded really good. Any other real reasons to buy upscale OR cheap guitars simply don't make sense. Most people that walk in my study at home and see a rack full of guitars say, "Oh, you play the guitar." And they move on to other things immediately. They don't know the difference between my heritage ($8,000), my Schechter ($2,500 and my absolute favorite), and my personal Barncaster that I made in my basement with used parts and the top of an old table. So the idea of using them to adorn the walls is just goofy. The idea of buying them as investment? Ridiculous. Any guitar I've ever sold was at a loss. (I know, there will be a bunch of brilliant people who have made a bunch of money on their guitars. I guess I'm just dumb.) You'd be better off sticking cash under your bed. I guess signed or guitars used by famous artists sorta could make sense. But you better hope you are going to sell off that investment at a great time in the country as far as the economy. Otherwise, a guitar signed by Pete Townshend and used "once at a fair in Scotland" just doesn't sell at a really good price. My advice on those? Buy really really low and sell really really high. (That should make you ten dollars, lol). But...if you really love to play guitar, it feels good (maybe even a little sexy) to hold a really nice axe in your hand? Smoke 'em if you got 'em. It's fun as heck to have a bunch of guitars and pull different ones out to play or let someone play.

[@garrettendi]

On the topic of buying guitars to appreciate in value (I've not finished watching the video): My take on this is in most cases it's impossible to predict which guitar will go up in value. Case in point: No-one could have predicted that the Squier Hello Kitty strat would be worth pretty good money once it was discontinued. And the Epiphone Zakk Wylde's have also gone up. Again, no-one could have predicted he'd end his deal with Gibson/Epiphone. Buying a guitar to appreciate in value means either a) the guitar is VERY special right now, or b) you have a clairvoyant level of confidence in how events will play out. There are more examples too. Moving on to pedals. Who could have predicted JHS Pedals causing the Bad Monkey to skyrocket in value?

[@JustinTR1990]

I don't ever buy a guitar with the expectation that the value will go anywhere but down. If I end up selling one, I'm just content if I get the majority of the money invested back. Gonna keep buying used Ibanez, it's never put me in a hole!

[@myeyesarewaiting]

I think you're absolutely spot on.

[@alextuozzo7138]

My only criticism of this video is I think it's a bit unfair to use the les paul standard and American strat as the "lowest price", the les paul tributes come in at around 1200 and the Mexican strats at 800 which is significantly cheaper than the ones you mentioned.

[@cr01554nt]

if you’ve got the time, look into the golf club market. the similarities on these very same grounds are imo way more direct.

[@vitnemec8365]

The market is drifting in a very strange place. It’s not a good sign that you cannot really find a good workhorse guitar (uncompromised build quallity, less bells and whistles) that is not made in far east. In my country (Czechia) it actually cost about the same to have your own guitar built by a prime luthier as to buy those top-shelf PRS SE’s. I can’t believe those saying that the guitar market is better than ever when you have to settle for an amp made in PRC and cookie-cutter guitars from Indonesia. Quallity is acceptable, but the whole bussines model is f**ked and ultimately ruining music.

[@jordanfreeman4170]

speaking of signature guitars.... Before the lockdown I had put a down payment on a pink and black Alexi-600 at guitar center. When they opened up again I went to pay the rest of it off (500-600 USD total), to my dismay they had an "error" in the system and sold it. Then he passed away (RIP Alexi) and you cannot find any of them for less than a grand, I've seen some sell for the same price as a used LTD Hexed/Ripped. Even the Alexi-200s are selling for more used than the 600s were a few years back.

[@predeterminedmeat5024]

The Squier J Mascis jazzmaster is an amazing guitar well worth the 530$

[@zulfikarfilandra]

very important points, thanks for pointing them out.

[@BOOLsheet]

PRS has been doing this forever. Their core model starts at $4K. They don’t even put premium specs on most of them. I don’t think they offer a single guitar with stainless frets. They just make vintage style instruments without the vintage guitar problems.

[@toddmoore2324]

Info on watch manufacturing is exactly what I was looking for in a guitar video. Thanks. 👍

[@ZaneMayfield]

Probably your best video yet. Very well thought out!

[@basurofobo]

Respecting signature guitars, please consider that music is changing, and that amazing guitarist of the 70s will probably be forgiven in 20 years, so your signature guitar will be just like any other guitar.

[@joeking433]

Who would have thought that the guitar heroes that sell guitars today played in the 70s? That really is mind blowing if you think about it! Even today kids that buy guitars have Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, and David Gilmour as the reason they buy guitars!

[@omgdisfunny4852]

gibsons are basically rolex squires are seiko

[@JazzGuitarScrapbook]

My knee jerk counter argument is that if you compare the cost of, say, a new Gibson es335 in 1960 compared to now the value is the same in real terms. Given Gibson was among your only options in 1960 and now you can get a great guitar for a fraction of the cost, the cost has really gone down. Otoh there’s all that custom shop and Murphy lab bullshit that didn’t exist in that era, so I think you are probably onto something. Wealthy players are not by and large professionals, maybe it was more so in the past, the market has changed…

[@JazzGuitarScrapbook]

Also wages have stagnated against inflation generally, it’s true.

[@silverwhip123]

For the money we spend on gear, the guitar business is really not luxurious. I went to buy a guitar with my cousin for her husband, she spent £400 on a beginner's guitar and an Amp. Her husband is also a casual watch enthusiast, she said if you went to Central London the shop clerk offers you champagne and coffee while browsing for watches around that price range.

[@supreme_klon]

having worked at ESP during the E-II/standard series changeover, I can tell you that most employees thought it was lame and stupid lol

[@jagerking7020]

It is stupid.

[@JustSomeRandomGaming]

As someone who owns "luxury" guitar and watch I hundred procent agree. Also like in the guitar industry where allot of players have dislike for the big brands, the watch world also dislikes the big brands for pretty much the same reasons buying a product purely for the flex of the brand name. Skill is the only thing gatekeeping Fender and Gibson from becoming a Rolex, AP, Länge Söhne, VC, Omega kind of brand. Since guitar playing is still a profession while wearing a watch is not. For the fellow guitar/watch nerds I own a Ibanez Titan 7 string and a Zodiac SSW Watermelon both worth around €1.4K which in my eyes is a luxury pricepoint for said items.

[@joriankell1983]

The Quartz in watches is not a power source. The crystals oscillate when electrified, and thus supply the clock pulse needed to keep time.

[@SlyRyFry]

Between inflation and companies just being companies raising prices overtime guitars have always felt like a luxury item. It's the reason I've completely been turned off from buying a gibson, they have no reason for higher prices over the recent year and they only push the limit more to see what they can get away with. Sad part is it works because of collectors and resellers. I want a flying V or an explorer really bad but I'm not willing to compromise the ridiculous prices for what they actually offer as instruments edit: Epiphone is disgusting these days

[@JohnDoeWasntTaken]

The only brand where astronomical prices are justified is ESP. And even then only ESP Japan and NOT their USA branch. Obviously the price of a "real" ESP is crazy high but that's because they're the equivalent of Fender masterbuilts, even if the guitars aren't custom models. It's why ESP is unique from the rest even though people have the misconception that they're just pulling a Gibson and trying to use the brand name to justify the price. The price has always been justified, the only difference is now it's _only_ those handmade guitars that say ESP on the headstock. Idk why people make such a big deal over it, after claiming they don't care about what brand is on the headstock.

[@kotogray8335]

I like the look of the new "set" with the lights and more space

[@DavideAnastasia]

I think we have to decide if we are interested in making musics, or owning "stuff". If it is a status symbol we are looking for, the brand "Gibson" or "Fender" on the headstock is good enough for most people, it doesn't have to be a custom shop. However, if instead we are interested in making music, top brands have little to offer more compared to up and coming smaller brands with more aggressive price point.

[@soulagent79]

It's crazy. In the mid 2010s you could easily find new Gibsons around 700-800 bucks. These days many Epiphones are more expensive than that. Personally I have a few big name guitars, but I'm not planning to buy any more. I'll keep 'em but I'm done with that and I'm more interested in sub-brands like Squier and Epiphone, which are getting better every year.

[@crans15]

I think the real test over the next decade or so will be whether notable players themselves are priced out of the luxury brands. All pop stars with a record deal can still get their hands on a Gibson, even on the lower end of the success scale, but this might change if the prices begin to soar to dizzying heights.

[@1-eye-willy]

i bought an ltd and a fender modeling amp for 80$ at a pawn shop and 6 months later i sold it back to them for 150$ ive never made money on a sale of my gear in the 30 years ive been playing music up until then. unfortunately i miss that SG knock off and modeling amp dearly,, its been a rough last couple of years and when i had to sell my stuff this last time, i havent been able to afford another guitar. its like, soul crushing for anyone who loves guitar as much as i do, im sure alot of people here could relate

[@sole__doubt]

I had an E-Gen a few years ago, and when compared to a mid range RG or ESP it really becomes apparent how overpriced luxury guitars are.

[@rutger4131]

Guitar prices are really really inflating. Second hand Fender prices haven´t gone up nearly as much as the new ones from what I see. And €1800 for an Epiphone should've not been reached until 2030 imo. Fender and Gibson still the best bet for retaining any value. I see very little interest for second hand USA Jacksons or Japanese ESPs. There is some demand, but it's very niche, at least here in the Netherlands. Hard to find any of these guitars in store here.

[@petersouthwell5971]

Awesome topic. Great points made here.

[@ddddddd7587]

on note of esp they didn't sell the previous "standard" line of esp's in japan as they were made for export and were made more cheaply to fit western guitar market. All esp's sold in japan were always from the "custom shop" and their price reflected that. You can find old threads on guitar forums about people complaining that the esp's they looked at their japan trip were twice the price what they were sold here. And that was because the standard line ie. new EII are different product from the custom shop one. ESP japan even released disclaimer on their website that they dont honor warranty for esp's made for export market which have been imported back to japan. Yes you'r correct custom shop level instruments are a luxury, them being branded as one does raise brand image. But in case of esp it had to do with brand longeitivty also. Also as side note I would have hoped more talk on diminishing returns on luxury goods (guitars) rather than make black and white comparisons that give impression that only value of higher end product has to do with branding. Keep it up KDH

[@guitartheeasywayllc582]

Thank you - I saw George Lynch at a Clinic and had him sign my GL 256 LTD Strat - he used a GL56 ESP which was $2500 I did not see a great difference and George said that it was just the electronics - Mine was $500- but out of stock - great guitar though

[@randymiles904]

You're right. I've been playing, and setting up my own, high end imports for years. Anything from Korea, Indonesia, and even some Chinese brands, are either fantastic with a little TLC, or a great mod platform. I own 22 high end imports, and I wouldn't trade any of them for a $5000 Gibson. I actually had one of my customers, I work on guitars on the side, try to trade me out of my ltd ec1000 for his Gibson Gold top 50's tribute. I laughed at him. Lol

[@varszegimarcell]

One important thing to point out in the watch vs. guitar analogy is that swiss watchmakers make less watches than the market demands for, and they do this to keep prices high. If you lucky enough to buy a Rolex in the store, you can sell it the next day for more money than you bought it, because you don’t have to wait for a year to get the watch. By comparison, I think guitar manufacturers make too much guitars. It’s not rare for a guitar, especially for the expensive ones to sit on the shelf for years before sale. So a new guitar is not a good investment, because you can walk in to the store and buy one instantly, so the second hand prices stay lower than the new prices.

[@MisterTee]

I’ve thought of high end guitars as luxury goods for ages.

[@DanielCarpenterMusic]

It's genuinely insane, no one should have an off-the-shelf guitar for over three grand. I had my Aristides built for less than a current ESP with the ESP branding on the headstock, and the quality difference is night and day between the two brands. *That* felt like a luxury vanity purchase, and it's a shame that nowadays that's the price of a generic, off-the-shelf guitar, and that's meant that the quality of things like ESP's E-II has plummeted compared to the older Made in Japan ESPs (which I own two of, and got for about a grand each). That's a shame for players who now can't guarantee quality despite paying over a grand for a guitar. PRS guitars may as well be a meme at this point, they're unattainable, but, as you say, they're a 'lawyer guitar', not something that real players need to concern themselves with, so that's, what, unattainable without the status? It's like paying Lamborghini prices for the car Homer Simpson designed.

[@JohnDoeWasntTaken]

I think saying the quality difference between an Aristides and an ESP being night and day is an overstatement if I've ever seen one. Maybe VS an E-II, yes. But any ESP with the actual branding on it is going to be made by the custom shop completely by hand whether it's actually custom or not. I've never heard someone get one of those ESPs and compare it to another guitar where the ESP was the worse quality one, what are you smoking? At worst the ESP will be the same quality. If I said I owned one of those ESPs I'd probably be labelled a fanboy, but I do own one and I think you're blowing smoke to make yourself feel better. Not sure where the hell you got "that's the price of a generic, off-the-shelf guitar", because it certainly isn't. If you felt like that's what you got when you bought your Aristides then maybe you should have taken your money to a different brand. I also looked at the prices of Aristides guitars and they aren't much cheaper than what I paid for my custom ESP.

[@DanielCarpenterMusic]

@@JohnDoeWasntTaken The video shows an off the shelf model ESP that is more expensive than any guitar I've bought. I'm not sure where you think I'm saying Aristides is off-the-shelf? It's the best instrument I've played by a long way, and made for me. Other brands are selling off-the-shelf models for custom guitar prices, such as ESP and PRS.

[@infrasound]

ESP went nuts, they have Grassroots, Edwards, LTD, E-II, ESP, Artist signatures, then other other brands like Navigator Takamine, etc

[@guitarsimon1]

That watch story was really interesting and a great analog!

[@Chimp_No_1]

Always really interesting ! Thanks !

[@pipelineaudio]

The proper analogy would be if rolex made ALL the watches, including the cheap ones. The truth is most of these guitars are made in the same place by the same people and just get different names on them