Keep Politics Out Of The Hobby

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[@TheOuterCircle]

I didn't monetise this video, I frankly don't care. IF you see an advert, that's just KZbin adding them and taking all the $$$. I am not saying there aren't real-world political statements that exist in the hobby, or that there aren't causes worth fighting for, or that you can't hold certain beliefs. I am only saying the hobby includes everyone of every persuasion right now, and if you start making political statements and adding causes around your miniatures, all you're going to do is create a divided community. I'm not here for the interpersonal drama, I am here to see cool stories about superhumans with no filter fighting intergalactic war beyond imagining.

[@sixmillionisimpossible]

you forgot to mention one of the flags in the thumbnail and what that guy painted on that model is the flag of MAP-positive people. Look that up, Macca. If anything you're not going hard enough on this.

[@braydoxastora5584]

Hey macca probably already aware but comparing the rsinbow politics to nazi's is not going go well. As for them politics is morality and thus you equate morals. Basically better off making the politics is inherently divisive argument and toxifies the community.

[@braydoxastora5584]

Hey macca probably already aware but comparing the rsinbow politics to nazi's is not going go well. As for them politics is morality and thus you equate morals. Basically better off making the politics is inherently divisive argument and toxifies the community.

[@captainferrite]

@@sixmillionisimpossible No it's fucking not

[@iValz]

@@sixmillionisimpossible If you are making a "trans people are groomers" joke, come on. If not, here is bit of trivia in order: Non-binary flag, Trans flag, pansexual flag and lesbian flag. And the thumbnail is Nazi flag (I haven't seen one with one white stripe), updated not as good pride flag, Soviet flag, don't know what the yellow flag is, Un flag and EU flag

[@khelom]

There is also a telling aspect to this whole situation I realized that I was dependent on a billionaire company for every aspect of my life: work, health, food, and also my hobby. My escapism was just consumption, Some people in UK were controlling my ability to take a rest on my life, they decided how I had to imagine. This shouldnt bé. This GW debacle woke me up and now my imagination will be free, far from all consumerism. They will no longer control me, at least in this aspect of my life.

[@gawkthimm6030]

thats why we pirate

[@DJRockford83]

Welcome to other companies (my favourite is Wargames Atlantic) and 3d printing 😊👍🏻

[@CowMan17]

that’s why I buy recasts and 3rd party 😎

[@ssgrandall]

Well said

[@virado255]

"How does it feel to have lived long enough to see all your favorite franchises go down in flames?" "Feels great."

[@TheOuterCircle]

Mike Stoklasa and Dick the Birthday Boy

[@toastle8005]

They’re free now.

[@Scragg-]

One of my buddies didn’t, and I can’t decide on whether to be envious or not. Love RLM

[@ryanfurey5465]

The amount of people on insta I unfollowed and got blocked from for not wanting politics in the hobby. Literally said "I love your work but I am gone please keep politics out of your work" to people. Then they get mad at me 🤦‍♂️ am I in the wrong? I don't think so.

[@ryanfurey5465]

@johnjones2375 it's not even the painting of models it's posting lgbt stuff and basically saying if your not for said things then your the problem stuff? I've never cared about any of that never seen one person like that that's ever been treated bad.

[@rutgaurxi7314]

I'm willing to bet you were called a "chud" and other supposed "insults" on making the announcement, it really wouldn't surprise me, given how petty people can be on the 'net.

[@RazielLordOfSecrets]

Dude it is getting too much. I left the hobby now and went to other games and minis. The quality of the writing has gone down hill rapidly too. This is because they are too interested in inserting their personal politics.

[@gozewstuffnthings5837]

Plus side, there are better rules out there and unless you like over embelished overpriced minis.. there are nicer ones for wargaming purposes. Doesn't help they can't write rules or fluff now.. not sure which one they're worse at currently tbh.

[@RazielLordOfSecrets]

@@gozewstuffnthings5837 absolutely, i've moved on to warcradle and mantic

[@nehrigen]

The writing was never actually as good as you remember. There were a few good books sandwiched between massive turds, but we remember the few good ones and forget the rest.

[@HemanKwayne]

Cerberusxt miniatures is just a grifter, he only does it to plug his personal page and probably get commissions. Since the first post he made in the wh40k group he has always used his business page and always makes sure to include his socials at the end of the post.

[@xXNoobKillaXx]

Yeah it just seems like marketing, not even taking a real stance or message

[@Fenris86]

Yeah, I saw him posting tutorials ages ago, for marines and other stuff not in rainbow or pastel colors. But his engagement has shot way up since he started painting mental illness flags.

[@user-zv2vm8bd8h]

People like him should be identified and blacklisted early on. I wonder how long it takes before woke pandering starts to become toxic in big corpos and grifters like Cerberus disappear until they rebrand themseleves.

[@scoticvsgossage9378]

The dude is a grifter, likes stirring up peoples anger whenever he can. The sooner he’s forgotten (or forced out) the better.

[@voorhee]

The dude has admitted he just does the pride stuff because "it pisses off the right people."

[@DeusExMachina10001]

Overt politics ruins everything.

[@enochianwolf]

cultural marxism*

[@frawDgnicnaD]

No.

[@alphaomega938]

Jeb Bush teir take

[@imnotabotiswear3276]

​@@frawDgnicnaDyes

[@ihaveaboot]

Imagine getting upset about politics in the political satire. Congrats. You have the media literacy of a roadkilled squirrel.

[@Traven158]

You're a few years too late, Macca. We tried being nice. We tried asking them, politely, to leave their politics out of the hobbies and franchises we love. They don't care. They only see a "victory" in taking over the things we love with their ideology and kicking out anyone who disagrees with them. Their only goal is to "win," and they will only stop once every single aspect of society conforms to their ideology. That is their stated goal.

[@legendarydavo]

Yea legit Macca.... you can't be nice to these people. They don't care about honor or morality. They only care about victory for their goal. Thus countless millions of people dead from communism and a complete bleaching of their cultures. I don't tolerate communists or these trans marxists in my warhammer community.

[@gawkthimm6030]

yeah screw those nazis, no more fascists in 40k

[@mikev8746]

Which has then resulted in literally every single group of normal people out there. Building up a deep resentment to these people. They just haven't realized it yet. But what do football supporters, tabletop players, gamers, movie buffs etc all have in common? They all loathe these people now. And these are just 4 groups on the top of my head. This really covers the entire sphere of humanity. That pendulum is going to swing hard on these people. I also find it telling I never encounter these people outside at say the gym, hiking in nature, going on vacation at a beach resort or at my local football clubs matches. The only time where I think I can spot some of these types it's public transport. Which is very telling. They don't even know they're being ignored/loathed because social media and their own loud and aggressive bubble is all they know.

[@kapitanbeuteltier5889]

If "they" have stated goals, what exactly are those goals and who is/are "they"?

[@DJRockford83]

Carl Benjamin being 40k canon now because a black library author has a power fantasy of him killing him is disgusting and I'm amazed this got past GW higher ups. By allowing this sort of blatant politically motivated hatred into their stuff they're picking sides in a war

[@user-Mr-L-of-York]

Wait what?

[@Nobleheart111]

Sargon of Akkad is now a Chaos Space Marine in universe called Sarkon Aggad. Featuring in a novel by Black Library writer Mike Brooks.

[@user-Mr-L-of-York]

@@Nobleheart111that is actually hilarious.

[@bilko991]

It's so lazy as well, Sarkon Aggad? that's it? A slight change in spelling. Where is the subtly? Where is any humour?

[@paulyg405]

@@Nobleheart111 Mike Brooks takes the piss out of other stuff too, not all of it is political. There was one story I read where he basically had a dig at GW about Primaris and Squats going away

[@MrKrisSatan]

I've been in the hobby since 1996, I'm starting to feel like it's time I left. It doesn't feel grim dark anymore and the recent changes and books have really soured me on games workshop

[@amyparsons-king2309]

Trench Crusade

[@MrKrisSatan]

I'm waiting for the trench crusade Kickstarter to start later this year

[@cypherofsmeg9020]

Ive noticed this over the last 5-8 yrs. Since the Old World blew up and Girlyman returned the worlds of Warhammer have become bright and cuddly in comparison to the late 90s/00s (even early 10s) versions of the hobby. The edge has been warn away to create a more inclusive area BUT they forget that we broken, weird, geeky random loners literially went there because of the edge, the fantasy of it all. I loved 40k lore but now its turned to standard sci fi stuff

[@stewart2517]

Same it’s definitely lost the grim dark, also the rules have gotten worse and now the lore is frankly trash. Am thinking of selling all my 40k and Horus Hersey stuff. It’s sad but once something is ruined for me like the lore am done. Same thing with Star Wars. Well at least I can use the extra cash for self improvement.

[@mcsniper180]

I am feeling the same and I only started in 2018

[@Fenris86]

It is the same as in Battletech. There is no interest in the hobby past using it as a billboard to advertise their dogma.

[@SteelStorm33]

i left battletech as is saw the first trans-mech

[@Fenris86]

@@SteelStorm33 I'm still playing, but I won't spend money on any CGL stuff. 3D prints of 'mechs are great (and let you buy Black Knights in bulk). The new lore seems to complete derp anyway.

[@voorhee]

I have a pile of shame large enough to last for years so I can continue to hobby without giving GW money. But everytime I try to sit down and paint lately I'm just overcome with a feeling of disgust and give up. Has anyone else experienced something similar?

[@voidhawk2555]

Yes, same. Hoping it will pass eventually, in the meantime I luckily have other hobbies that can fill the void

[@Rage_TM]

In a very similar situation, and the exact thing has happened to me recently. I have no real drive and it sucks. I have this project on my hobby desk, and it’s just in limbo. I’m going to just step back and like others hope it passes, and do something else, but it sucks.

[@andrewwoolford8073]

I've struggled with attention issues for a long time. Finally sat down and wanted to get back to my hobbies and instead got hit by this exact feeling.

[@Erikjust]

Well at least we now know the The Outer Circle will be the villain in the next Necromunda book. Or do we need to get Macca a little more popular before he joins Sargon as offical Warhammer canon :P

[@TheOuterCircle]

Frankly, the people at GW don't know who I am or what I represent beyond being scathing of them from a professional business standpoint as a useless company that cannot organise effective production of a product designed to fly off the shelves.

[@Kawanakajima]

I'm sorry to say that, but I fear not a single person who needed to hear this message will actually have their mind changed by this video. When you asked (rhetorically) whether the political fight for this or that real life minority group or the fight againt the daemons of the empyrean that want to devour the souls of humanity is more important, most of the politically minded fans (and not all of them are "tourists") would just tell you, that these real life issues are by default more important than any fantasy / science fiction escapism. That's the fundamental disagreement, I think. That and the belief that "my side is morally / always right", because my cause is good, and if you disagree, even if you choose to just not support my good cause, you must be evil. Can't really have a civilised, productive discussion on that basis I'm afraid.

[@enochianwolf]

they are literally the same groups who overthrew Russia and murdered their royal family. Theres so many people who don't see whats coming right at them.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

It's more then that, a lot of them will not only call you evil for not agreeing with them, but they can't help but push the narratives through people they like because they can't handle the idea of someone they like disagreeing with them

[@Guncriminal]

The comments here confirm that you're correct, unfortunately.

[@LittleIAO]

You're not wrong that we're dealing with what amounts to cultists who are extremely unlikely to see reason. Thankfully there's still plenty going for the side of common sense as long as we don't abandon the space.

[@imnotabotiswear3276]

If there only in here for politics, THEY. ARE. TOURISTS, end of discussion

[@serarthurdayne9490]

Cerberus is a really great painter, just a truly awful human being.

[@imnotabotiswear3276]

You have offended me by calling that grifter a human

[@math925]

I think you're going to get a lot of blowback for this video, but I want to commend you for standing up for your perspective. I agree with it, too. I believe that there is a double-standard of "representation" in popular culture. One side gets their special interests inserted into various media, but the other side (if anything) is vilified. All that said, I think we won't find sympathy nor satisfaction from most people for a long time. It's going to be a cold winter. Ultimately, it just means I am going to be saving my money rather than spending it in support of tone-deaf companies.

[@Gorbz]

"You will not be missed" - Games Workshop I stopped supporting them myself. Ì like the setting, but I can get my miniatures cheaper and without political baggage elsewhere.

[@rossdiggle]

I was brought up in the 80s and 90s. Something happened in the 2010 where it wasnt considered vulgar to talk politics. Life was better when we didn't insert politics into everything.

[@doomguy9049]

Yeah used to be understood that politics and religion were not acceptable topics for polite conversation

[@RobotTanuki]

What probably happened was one group decided that "If we refused to talk about politics, we're not going to get anywhere!" and so they hijacked other movements under the guise of "kindness" and "tolerance" whilst slipping their politics in little by little. And here we are.

[@enochianwolf]

guess what was happening gradually since long before the 80's? none of this is spontaneous

[@RobotTanuki]

YT deleted my comment. Thanks, YT. Woohoo freespeech. Let's just say some people realised that your politics are not gonna win if you never talk about politics.

[@axcel9128]

More like politics are in everything and society just was more agreeable for social engineering reasons which now begins to fall apart

[@Gorbz]

Games Workshop encourage this behaviour through their own actions. By featuring them in White Dwarf, by putting personal pronouns and gender ideology in Black Library books, and the community does not help. Theŕe are numerous 40K fan groups which, in the interest of keeping everything civil, say that discrimination will not be tollerated. This is fine, but then people use that as a shield by posting their minis painted up to push a political point, and pointing that out will have you labeledas an ist or a phobe. Heck, when GW employees post "Orks support BLM and Trans lives", you know that is not the setting they love, but just using it as a platform.

[@enochianwolf]

orks support BLM because...

[@user-xk9gw1gf8c]

I was always under the impression with the Orks it was a case of "no lives matter"..

[@enochianwolf]

@@user-xk9gw1gf8c orks support BLM? no surprise there

[@enochianwolf]

obviously you want to support your own group. Orks need to show solidarity with their people.

[@Gorbz]

@@user-xk9gw1gf8c Green lives matter. Only way to ensure a decent scrap with the boyz XD

[@egnaroelprup]

Baffles me that people want to represent real world sexual freedom politics almost solely within the facist space racists, are they trying to tell me something about themselves? Or does the politics not work both ways

[@enochianwolf]

it's simply because a big majority of 40k players are S - W - M of good character. just as previously that was the majority of Star Wars fandom.

[@egnaroelprup]

@enochianwolf I mean I actually get why, they chose the "poster boy", that's both simultaneously the easiest of any army to paint and its almost always assault intercessors, a kit that you could get like 500 of for next to nothing for an entire edition (it's funny that the image in the video has reivers too, a unit that's currently so bad, people are probably shifting it for very little) It's a grift and an easy win for + points in certain spheres, they aren't exactly rushing to paint cawl in these colours

[@enochianwolf]

@@egnaroelprup expect those spheres to heavily envelop the entire universe very soon. it doesn't matter what the models are, just that they were 40k miniatures painted in that scheme, it's like going to a star trek convention dressed in a federation uniform and loudly proclaiming you stand with Russia.

[@ravenRedwake]

“Alright, that’s swell. Do it on skitarii.

[@mikev8746]

No it's just that people like that are irony impaired. Infact they are inpaired on a multitude of ways. That's literally what brought them to their current modus operandi. And also why it has since gotten worse. These people aren't even trying to get better and improve. That's their whole thing. Forcing other people to change on them while they fester around.

[@ravenRedwake]

1:12 that one on the far right reminds me of sherbet. I haven’t had sherbet in a few years.

[@RobotTanuki]

There should be a Neapolitan coloured space marine chapter.

[@elfatmano]

The worst part of all this is that give the hobby 5 years and it will be like all other hobbies, change the story so much that it is no longer interesting,or unique, old/beloved characters change so that they are always dumb and that they have to be saved by the self-insert writer or his fetish, places and events and factions change so much that the uniqueness of 40k is gone and it is no different from other hobbies who are destroyed and the only thing you hear from it is how bad it is. And that reminds me of one of the most evil phrases you can ever say to someone " May your hobby hit mainstream audiences".

[@deleted4577]

It's pretty much in that spot now imo, warhammer is through the looking glass when it comes to getting the Star Wars treatment. There's barely any mystery left because it's all been covered in one of 300+ novels, the unique style has been shaved down so that marines are now just a different flavour scoop of ice cream from the same Neapolitan sci fi super soldiers tub. The table top game has been dumbed down to the point it's not even a wargame anymore... it's just a tabletop version of a PC turn-based tactics game. It's only gonna get worse as well because it's not been owned by sweaty basement nerds for years, it's been owned by 50 year old men in suits hiring aspiring yes-men.

[@enochianwolf]

@@deleted4577 women in suits*

[@SteelStorm33]

@@deleted4577 primaris got rid of every character and personality space marines had, and also of every bit of grimdark. space marines are generic sci-fi know, and thats probably the most important point.

[@BattleBro77]

Considering how much they use colour in their symbols and propaganda, they really love to erase diversity and make everyone the same soulless grey husk with the same views and personality.

[@bradleyclancy6136]

"Warhammer has always been poltical" translated : Let me insert my shitty politics into your hobby.

[@meeszijlstra5426]

It just is though? Warhammer started as a satire of England under Margaret Thatcher. Warhammer was never some magical, apolitical franchise before recent years. It's a franchise about deeply corrupt internal politicking within and among various races, where awful things happen every day because some horrid person has way more power than they ever should. Warhammer 40k has always been incredibly political, and it certainly was not subtle about it either

[@kristianjensen5877]

@@meeszijlstra5426 After the early 90's, there has been very few instances of real life political agendas influencing the direction of the design of Warhammer 40k. Well until recently. Can you find an example, that is not 30+ years old?

[@enochianwolf]

@@kristianjensen5877 so we can't provide old or new examples, which would you like? specifically examples from between 2000 and 2010?

[@riptors9777]

​@@meeszijlstra5426 There is a difference between satire lampooning authorative fundamental regimes, and inserting RL leftwing progressive propaganda without any nuance or critical viewpoints and presenting them as solely "good" and "right" Especially if its the aforementioned authorative fundamentalist goverment that SOMEHOW still supports these lefty progressive ideas. This "everything is political" bullshit argument isnt nearly as strong as you think it is.

[@captainferrite]

@@meeszijlstra5426 But as conservatives get dumber, the satire has to get blunter XD

[@OzymandiasRex]

Keeping real-life politics out of the Hobby is a laudable stance. But what do we do though when the hobby has been under siege for years by those with a political agenda? What do we do if the writers who write the lore can't keep their real-life political obsessions out of their work? What about when GW is courting larger companies who openly admit to political agendas and politically motivated practices and demand the same of their partners? What does a fan do after seeing all his other hobbies going through the same cycle of infiltration>corruption>destruction? What if Warhammer is the last hobby they have left?

[@Tosicc567]

Dont support the company. If they lose more than they make from this (companies always lose more pandering to a minority of the community) They will eventually stop, find other ways to get the models you want in totally legal ways. 3d print, onepage rules games. Dont let the company dictate how you hobby, I'm in the same boat feeling like this was my last escape taken away after star wars and many more. It sucks, I wanted to get away from all the stupid social policing but they come for everything.Vote with the thing these companies value the most, money.. Also know that there are lots of people like you, you are not alone. There are more and more people finally confronting the noisy minority that have ruined so many things for so many people.

[@discipleofdagon8195]

3d printing, indie studios like one page rules etc.

[@OzymandiasRex]

@@Tosicc567 Already doing all of that and more. It's just disheartening: The share-price tanks after femstodes ->-> they announce price rises. (gotta keep lying to those shareholders after all)

[@Tosicc567]

@@OzymandiasRex yeah pretty much, just feels like a massive gaslight towards every community atm

[@sixmillionisimpossible]

​@@OzymandiasRex fight fire with fire. Fashy marines with that you-know-what symbol and guard with stahlhelms.

[@themonk_fish]

40K subreddit first rules says no politics, pointed this out on the trans flag minis posts and got banned.

[@CS-ri1eo]

Reddit moment

[@Azikarak]

Being LGBT isn’t being political - how is this so hard to grasp for you?

[@enochianwolf]

@@Azikarak its on the campaign poster for most politicians. cope

[@darklelouchg8505]

Yes it is

[@MiniCountry-zu9yl]

Only if you’re a prick

[@marceloantunes998]

The problem with you not politicising your hobby is that someone else will and push you away from it.

[@DJRockford83]

Gatekeep

[@enochianwolf]

Moment of silence for all the deleted comments. If you're right of center, you wont be able to contribute to the discussion.

[@BattleBro77]

I'm not even rightwing and constantly get ban warnings for mocking islamists and commies lol

[@BattleBro77]

My reply to this comment was deleted and I barely said anything lmao

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

To everybody saying they're leaving, don't. You don't have to buy anything, I'd say stay and fight on every front because these sickos aren't going to stop until everything is infested. And they're coming for your kids too.

[@corvus_armatura7595]

I'll gladly stand and fight. I've built my Knight out of paper and I've got my soldiers done out of the same material. Witness as I stand without the Imperium for yet another millennia more just like my fore bearers.

[@davidsampson5475]

Thank you for articulating what I have thought about this topic Mecca

[@nancywood6309]

😮Thanks Macca, we needed another 'Adult' non-GW-§hill to weigh in on this crap in our (once 🔂 great) *HOBBY.*

[@chikhai]

Coomhammer was a mistake

[@deafnoisemarine6294]

Never Goon

[@NotQuiteAllHere]

ngl a cry to ‘keep politics out’ is just a cry of defeat. They have no reason to listen to you. If you were stronger you’d never have to ask and they have no reason to listen to the weak. You won’t convince them, how could you? They intend to win and would purge you. To complain of a double standard is to miss the point. Either you take power and enforce your norms, or you will have norms imposed on you.

[@enochianwolf]

same thing happened to the russian government in 1918. they had no clue how ruthless their opposition was and treated them too softly, which was repaid with tremendous cruelty. the sheeps clothing works. people need to wake up and realize what kind of struggle they really are in.

[@SumsieBun]

I’m a trans person who recently picked up the hobby and I’m already sick of all the trans-pride and “Fulgrim was trans” shitposting that goes on around Emperor’s Children forums. I can’t say I understand the people who post that crap but seriously? It’s annoying af

[@brutalchaos92]

One side wants to be left alone, one side wants to force their beliefs on you. These last 5-6 years made me do a complete 180° on my opinion on the alphabet community

[@JanitorScruffy]

Unfortunately that's the problem. Wanting to be left alone isn't enough, you have to actively work against them or they will displace you.

[@khiburgess5848]

I don't mind talking the politics of 40k but to then bring the politics of the world into what is a figment destroys the lore, game and enjoyment.

[@ivanpr9525]

The game was originally a political satire, so this is a hilarious comment

[@khiburgess5848]

@@ivanpr9525 Yes well it is ofcourse a far right political satire GW of years gone by used to get things right.

[@ivanpr9525]

@@khiburgess5848 The far right is still alive even if they wish to be called by other name such as centrists.

[@khiburgess5848]

Basically your proving my point. Please leave your politics out of my hobby.

[@ivanpr9525]

@@khiburgess5848 Your hobby is still a political satire

[@currykane8359]

in our club we got a gentleman's agreement to not talk about politics and that is the best. we all are in the warhammer univers as soon as we enter the Hq door. Politics ruinded star wars for me and i found my peace in 30k and 40k.

[@enochianwolf]

i have some bad news for you

[@colinmack8655]

That makes me want to pick up Shatterpoint more.

[@einrauser6103]

This is something that I can respect. Warhammer used to be a game you played at your friend's house with a six pack. I think its time to return for us to bring that back.

[@alphaomega938]

How to divide politics from a xenophobic hyper-eugenic galaxy spanning empire ?

[@Nobleheart111]

In universe vs out of universe. Nothing out of universe politics allowed. Simple as.

[@vitaliyred622]

I was super against it but this getting openly displayed on White Dwarf. Well, let me paint my primaris into Russian flag. Let’s see how it goes

[@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel]

I'd like to say I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments with the hobby being escapism and how it's about relaxing and enjoying a setting or whatever about our hobby. I'm a rightwing guy but I don't need to force people to love or even believe in what I believe in in my life it's my values and sensibilities, I think the world of politics intrudes far to much in people lives these days. Thanks for the video man.

[@enochianwolf]

you call yourself right wing. what is the biggest problem in the world according to you?

[@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel]

@@enochianwolf The biggest problem is globalisation and centralisation of finance in fewer and fewer hands. After that I'd say unaccountable officials within governance.

[@enochianwolf]

@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel good answer, I see too many so called right wingers who would ignore the bank and you know who

[@enochianwolf]

@@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel good answer, 👃 would also be acceptable

[@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel]

@@enochianwolf Oh yeah you know you don't want to scare away the normies, any criticism of the powers that be is fine but you name their ethnicity that's when you have problems.

[@quimble2177]

Funniest thing to me is the Ghaz thing. The guy who came up with the name came out a couple year ago or so, and said “nah it isn’t a reference to thatcher, it’s a character I had in a LoTR TTRPG I was playing with friends”

[@yeahokno]

Wanted to be accepted is fair enough, but violently and militarily inserting their perversions will inevitably get a pushback.

[@enochianwolf]

the demand for acceptance is an opening salvo, the entire movement is openly marxist

[@JanitorScruffy]

Anyone who demands acceptance, probably wasn't accepted for a perfectly valid reason, but most people forget this and let people who will inevitably show you their bad side walk all over them.

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

Emperors Children, enough said.

[@corvus_armatura7595]

Fabius is very neutral but he also wants a state for his new super-human race of men and women.

[@Nobleheart111]

As yes, the “NuMarxists”. I see.

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

@@Nobleheart111 Fabius strikes me as more of a National Socialist type, make that Galactic Socialist.

[@enochianwolf]

@sebbonxxsebbon6824 yeah because Dr Mengele was an evil mad scientist right... I love scary fiction too

[@TopazTiger2000]

As great as your point is, this is unfortunately going to fall on deaf ears; 1.) the tourists and invaders don’t care and will continue as they please with no consequences or remorse because no one ever does anything 2.) no one can really do anything about it so no one bothers and lets them infiltrate and destroy their hobby space Say what you want about the tourists and weirdos, but their track record is perfect- they will destroy the hobby and they will ruin it and leave it behind a shallow husk while everyone else plays the high horse and thinks that’s winning

[@rag9993]

Well done sir. I’ve been in my hobby since the 80’s, it’s all made up it’s not real I’ve got a lot of abuse for comments in the last 6 months. It’s a game it’s in the name for god sake “games workshop “ this is why I don’t play anymore. Well done I agree with you on every point you raised 👍👍👍

[@sixmillionisimpossible]

Nah I think we should do the opposite. Don't keep politics out. When they insert it, when they take the gloves off, you throw it right back at them. Already people in just a decade and a half alone have made germanic and mean windmill marines and guard. I say, keep doing it. Make them uncomfortable. Secondly no, if you think that boring flat-toned pastel tri-color on those primaris looks good, you have no functional corneas.

[@Ophidia_Lore]

Leaving my 2 cents here I left warhammer gaming mostly cause of money since, I got enough hobbies as is But this kinda stuff does bother me as well. As a member of the proctected identities and stuff, I don’t want to see trans everything or gender fuckery stuff. It doesn’t, really fit much in the universe. Having stories that make sense for it (like the necrom thing) that I can see. Making overt politics stuff gets old. I don’t want my transness to be everything I see everywhere all the time.

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

Just fyi, I'm in a small discord server with Sargon of Akkad and he loves the fact he's a villain in a BL book, its more of a compliment to be a villain in 40k than an insult 😂 There's many of us trying to 3d print/kitbash models of him based on descriptions from the book

[@darklelouchg8505]

Tell me more, I am interested in Kitbashing this figure. Which BL bool tried to take on Carl?

[@rutgaurxi7314]

There are three places where I don't care to have politics shoved: at the dinner table with the family, at the paint table or while playing a game (no matter how vanishingly rare they they are these days). Politics are everywhere these days, unfortunately, there's no getting away from them as much we can try and now politicians are the self appointment celebrities of this age. Like it or despise it. Everyone else just marches to the beat of they're drum... Billionaires are now becoming the emperors through corruption and hubis if nothing else. At least that's my take on it. Edited.

[@user-Mr-L-of-York]

Honestly flag marines of any kind should be stigmatized. Gamzas American marines are pure cringe. not on the level shown here, but not far behind.

[@corvus_armatura7595]

Aye. But if they're going to do it, may as well McMarine my shit up.

[@Toactwithoutthinking]

The problem is when some hobbies are overtly political in one way, for example 40k is overtly right wing in its setting and premises, it will make the radicals who oppose those politics agitated and want to attack it. You don't need to tell the rational average person to keep outside politics out of hobbies, you need to forcefully boot the crazies who won't shut up about politics.

[@Captain_Idaho]

Well said. I find the toxic element of people chasing their politics into everything they do and more important everything other people do, are infiltrating this hobby badly. The Bolter and Chainsword is seeing this too.

[@patgray5402]

Imagine if White Dwarf featured United States themed Space Marines for U.S. Independence Day. They would lose their minds.

[@DM13man]

The person on the screen immediately activates my almonds because in all my interactions with this person online, I can tell you that they are, in fact, miserable crybullies.

[@cypher545]

Dude. Your literally saying that people posting these pride marines are the same as people posting nazi themed marines. Yikes.

[@masternerf99]

It's especially true with stuff like roleplaying games. When I say no politics, I mean it. I don't use D&D or Warhammer as a means to push my personal beliefs/politics onto people. It's supposed to be fun, not an exercise in soapboxing.

[@DarkCT]

A point well said, I feel. you know what occured to me a bit ago? how many paint schemes are being claimed as flags for X or Y thing in modern times. kind of mucks with the creativity of a hobby that involves painting when a theme you thought you might want to do is now a choice for some flag you didn't know about and your dragged into this stuff.

[@Drobeis]

Not having real problems causes people to make up their own... I'm starting to think the villains from MGR were onto something. Give war a chance.

[@WhatThe40k]

Great video. I think it well reflects the non vocal majority of those in the hobby.

[@voidhawk2555]

To be fair, we've seen this coming for a while now. I've been hoping against hope that it wouldn't get too bad, but here we are at last. I'm not even angry about it, just sad. Sad that the hobby I've been in since the late 80's is apparently no longer made for me. The hard part for me personally is just how fast I've grown apathetic in my attitude to the hobby. I feel like I've given up on it already.

[@kristianjensen5877]

Imagine someone painting a space marine squad in the colors of Palestine. That would get banned so fast from every painting community in the name of breaching the rules about "political content".

[@Jake-gw9cj]

Probably not, the vast majority of wokies support palestine not israel

[@JanitorScruffy]

Genocide? By someone who gives money to our politicians? Absolutely not acceptable. Politics about what I do in my bedroom? That's cutting edge and brave.

[@enochianwolf]

@@JanitorScruffy how about we have a third option where western men and women demand that the middle east remain far away and not our concern, and also lets return sex to being a special thing between a man and a wife. this is impossible considering the fact that every western country has a central bnk, and thus is completely dominated by middle eastern men.

[@Rayleonard13]

I remember when those models/pics you were showing when they were posted on the subreddit, They were not done for love of the hobby, narrative or gameplay but simply as advertisement and profit for said artist. Its just like what every corp does during pride mouth where they throw up a token twitter logo. Its also a very deceptive way to make sure no criticism can be given to the work posted too.

[@terrysaunders7107]

Listen to your local commesar or inquisition agents teachings regarding political positions. "The rewards for tolerance is treachery and betrayal.".

[@judgecohen1373]

Bingo! I don’t want this real world shit in my sci-fi toy soldiering. Basically this makes the statement “There is NO ESCAPE!” Seems to be a crafted, intentional method of corrosion.

[@Archon...]

Why do these pinheads want the cruel militant enforcers of the most brutal regime to ever exist to rep their pride flag colours? 😅

[@enochianwolf]

because its a natural fit

[@rutgaurxi7314]

Because they will never be a 7'' space racist.

[@liammorgan1413]

It's certainly been a bit of a rollercoaster, to say the least. One thing I can definitely say is that the online discourse has been the most aggravating part of it all, in no small part because online discourse often boils down to mask-off behaviour coming from people either pretending at moral grandstanding or failing to understand that they're effectively speaking publicly. I tend to err more towards people being the latter than the former as per Hanlon's Razor ("Never immediately attribute to malice what can more readily be attributed to incompetence"), but you never know with some people until they go off like a landmine. More than a few times, I've seen individuals look at complaints made about one of the latest dumpster fires and essentially go "I want to buy it just to piss off the chuds now", which I kind of find perverse amusement in since the likelihood of them following through with their own words is dubious at best. Conversely, I also know people who were working on "What if" army projects before the Custodes retcon announcement (one particular case had already converting up a female Shield-Captain for their Custodes collection by then) but are now kind of scared to put it out there on display because of the online discourse. As someone who also enjoys doing "What if" army conversion projects on the side (especially when it comes to Imperial Guard and Cities of Sigmar), whilst I may not necessarily agree with what they're doing with their work, I nonetheless appreciate that they're at least putting in the effort to make it work, which makes it all the more disheartening that their efforts are being undermined because of something tangential to the hobby that they have no control over whatsoever. In the end, it's why I consider it almost easier to say that the real Warhammer communities are not what's featured online (let alone on a site calling itself "Warhammer Community") but rather in the local hobby shops, clubs, and friend's houses.

[@caboosealmighty3735]

To many people online make money from rage bait, although they are unlikely to have a career long term when compaired to those that use their talents or charisma to maintain a channel / project long term. The online community (whatever political group they belong to) don't represent the real life majority that just want to have fun.

[@The_skeleton_king]

Can't wait to see how reddit twists this very rational talk

[@Guncriminal]

Sounds like they've already arrived.

[@t.s.7166]

Im probably gonna get hate for this, but i think there are some exceptions as what counts as political and what doesn't. If someone paints their minis like a trans flag that doesn't spread abject harm unlike a fascist regime

[@YodhrinsForge]

I'm a bisexual autistic man who votes Scottish Green on the basis that even though they're not left wing enough, they're the most left wing with a shot at being elected here, which I say only so that people understand I both tick DEI checkboxes and have personal politics that are "purer" than 90% of the people pushing this nonsense into the hobby, and I 100% agree. Even though most of this stuff are causes I want to see advanced IRL, many which I've personally been an activist for, I don't want to see them across the table from me at the club or plastered across Warhammer Community or clogging up social media feeds because the whole bleedin' point of hobbies is giving you a place you can go that allows you to be FREE of thinking about your real life for a short time. A place where you can decompress, relax, immerse yourself in an alternative reality without personal stakes or lose yourself thinking about game mechanics without having to endure drama of *any* kind. There's a world of difference between giving a Your Dudes character a jokey wink & nod name and the absolute circus-tier *performance* the Sigmarxism types put on around this stuff, because that's the point in the end, it's about showing off either to virtue signal to your in-group of fellow weirdos or to try and bait "the other side" into a reaction you can use to make them look bad. Jeezo I just want to play with my spacemen for a few hours a week without being confronted with all the horrors and annoyances of the real world, why is that so unreasonable?

[@PhthaloGreenskin]

My Custom Craftworld is based off of #SuperStraight however you wouldn't know it unless I told you because the imagery I use is very subtle.

[@thundergoat421_6]

lovely that GW showcased the MAP flag (center right) in their White Dwarf. That, and the Fem Custards, and the expense of the game...I think I'm done buying from GW.

[@ein-euro-rimjobber2304]

Thats not the MAP Flag. Google it. MAP Flag has white in it. This is an asexual flag or so

[@GlennM53]

I noticed that flag in alot of people on that sides profile pic. Absolutely disgusting!

[@xXNoobKillaXx]

It's actually pansexual flag

[@sixmillionisimpossible]

funny how that's never brought up.

[@suri8984]

It is not the MAP flag. MAP flag is blue, yellow, white, yellow, pink

[@thunderwarrior2459]

Cancelled any% speed run

[@TheOuterCircle]

The nebulous "whoever" can cancel me all they like. I'll just go back to a normal existence without a KZbin channel, and frankly that's something I can happily do. I don't make my living from KZbin, and when I took a holiday recently, I didn't worry about uploads or checking in on it, I put my phone down and enjoyed the moment. I'm happy to have the simple life!

[@deleted4577]

@@TheOuterCircle glad to hear it, that's the healthy way to be mate. All this political drama comes from the terminally online anyway. In the real world these people are an extreme minority. It's just a shame that it's the terminally online that have their opinion amplified the most, but then it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

[@walt_man]

Man, that picture makes me hate Primaris crap even more lol, good job. They're not even good chapter colors..

[@akumaking1]

When woke politics destroyed Star Wars, I went to Warhammer to escape it. Now that wokies destroyed Warhammer, I don’t know where to go next.

[@Azikarak]

What does woke mean? Can you give me some examples of woke politics in Warhammer?

[@akumaking1]

@@Azikarak the force-feeding of leftist/communist beliefs down the throat of everyone regardless of context, space or situation. Wokies only care about shoving their ideology in your face 24/7 and define their entire existence and personality around being a political hack. If you told a wokie you liked breathing they’d hold their own breath and pass out.

[@enochianwolf]

@@Azikarak female custodes, warhammer adventures, diversity, blackrock, vanguard, amazon, etc

[@marcoghiotti7153]

I have not seen nor experienced anything particularly political in this hobby. However, it is a global franchise, you should expect any walk of life. Your requirement of escapism may not align with somebody's else. As long as your own personal space is guaranteed, live and let live

[@greaterpainter7996]

Simple, just refuse to play people that insist on bringing their personal politics into a game that is supposed to bring us together.

[@SteelStorm33]

yes, and i tell them about the cause and reality till they leave and cancel me themselfes.

[@theylivewesleep.5139]

Most of these people are creeps on the internet who you’d never meet anyway and who either don’t play or have their own circles to walk in. Point being: nah, that won’t do anything

[@Nodwick123]

Sad but true.

[@matthewross3162]

Divide and conquer

[@jeffers1985]

Amen aussie brother. I have friends other multitude of religions,l and ethnicity and rib on each other constantly. People take things way too serious and now afraid to say anything.

[@deleted4577]

I yearn for the day we can all be together under one flag honestly. Identity politics is such a regressive concept.

[@JanitorScruffy]

That day will come when there are no longer people who are different.

[@enochianwolf]

ironic comment, the same people killing 40k are working towards your dream goal. "division" is only against the old guard, i.e. western man. once he is extinct, they will have their world gv

[@mikediamond1234]

GW is done. It’s over. Allan Bligh legacy is destroyed and is rolling is his grave over this shit and nothing we do can change what this company is doing or wants to do. They don’t care about their fans, especially in Horus Heresy

[@inquisitorvuln]

I've been saying this as well, for quite some time now. People who use the hobby as a platform for their real world political ideologies are just as bad as the people think that the setting is a reflection of their real world conservative or right wing views . Warhammer 40k is Warhammer 40k. It has its own politics in the setting. Keep the real world politics out of it.

[@alphaomega938]

How are you going to win the culture war in your hobby if you don’t fight ?

[@LittleIAO]

Effing Bravo. Spot on critique. Also everyone who feels this way should not let themselves be pushed aside by a loud minority of activists. Just like with games like D&D, one company and one viewpoint do not own the hobby. The real fans do and we can carry it forward with or without Games Workshop's current approval. I'll be honoring the IP and hobby's greatest aspects and ignoring the crap that's being pushed as a fad political agenda. I'll support who, what, and where I want to and that will always be creators like this one who aren't afraid to speak the truth.

[@sheriffsnowtrooper6516]

Honestly I agree so much. I just want to paint my little space guys without thinking about the bs of the real world.

[@loke801]

The people who insist on the “everything is political” I find always omit or just forget these a difference between a using political themes to make a setting (Bioshock for example) and Shoving modern day jargon into the setting.

[@magicianman534]

In a way, its absolutely true. Art always reflects some part of how its creator sees the world, the values they feel strongly about, or the messages they want people to hear. whether you see that as political depends on your own perspective. Older 40k comments on the politics of the 80s and 90s that no one cares about anymore, so it's easy to disregard them as not a big deal.

[@ravennarrative]

I think this is a lot about perception and reality. And also a bit about world building. Pride marines and in most cases also female marines are mostly mini-projects as individual miniatures. I've never seen something like this done as an serious army, that has lore. (And I'm queer, and a lot of people in my hobby group and other hobbie groups that I have close contact with are also queer, way above average.) Projects that are so far out of the setting, usually a painting or wtf fun poject. And its fine to have them, an present them. Creative people and artists always displayed things, that haven't been socially accepted at their time. Ask Shakespeare. (Even if that wasn't in a queer context) "Pride" in the queer sense also has a strong importance for the queer community, what has by now "historical" roots, that play into all of that. (There is a reason we call it pride day) So, making so much about something that, will likley never be encountered in the real hobby life, is probably a bit overreaction. And then we have propper queer representation in settings. Queer people always existed, and always will be. If the state of the society allows to adress such topics or not. So, not integrating it at all does make no sense, on the same level as queer marine chapters fighting for good, do. But place it right. Gay/bi friends with benefits, in a guards regiment? Sure. Probably not even that rare, if you think about it. Lesbian couples in sororitas? Unfitting in my opinion, due to them being a religious order. Something like that would break the immersion. A bisexual inquisitor that uses his charme and casual sexual relationships, to kther inquisitors to furthering his/her/their political powers and connections? Works for me. A human (not marine) trans character from a healthy and wealthy world close to Ultramar? Absolutly possible. (But still a rarity and not a common thing!) And it doesn't need like a hard focus on such things. Just having them exist, as small sidenote, to characterise someone in a story, is already enoguh. Doing such things in the right way, is super important. Done wrong, it is as bad, or even worse as not having representarion at all. And even that can kinda change. Most disney villians are queercoded to demonize queer people and are now celebrated, as icons by the queer community. Like you said, its an ever changing process. So, do I need queer representation in 30k/40k, as a queer person? No. Do I appreciate it, if it's done in the right way? Absolutely. Is the sexuality or gender of a fictional character something political? No. Just becuase some people use/abuse it political, doesn't make it political. In general I think if and how a setting should or should not engage in politics, is difficult. 40k with being a nationalistic, imperialistic and theocratic nightmare is straight up political (satire). And this is pushed into everyones face. What you make out of this, is your decision. But if, how and how much to tip into politics with a setting, is always a hard decision that writers, fandoms and companies struggle and deal with. And what fits and how it is seen, also depends on the community, the details of the specific case, and hownit was done. In short's complicated. 😂

[@bryanvestal3923]

You are awesome brother and spot on!

[@teamsdownfall9644]

While I agree for the most part that we should keep politics out of the hobby. Saying these issues wouldn’t be front and center issues if you were facing a looming nuclear war look at the American civil rights movement. That took place in the 50’s and 60’s during that time we had multiple major incidents the biggest being the Cuban missile crisis the closest the world has ever come to total nuclear war. While the movement might not have been covered or focused on during these crises that doesn’t mean they went away.

[@TheOuterCircle]

I did say an actual war, with conscription and hundreds of thousands of dead, with the nuclear apocalypse being the very next thing to happen, slightly different to just the looming threat of unrest.

[@teamsdownfall9644]

@@TheOuterCircle then I misunderstood your point. Even then I would still argue the Cuban missile crisis would still count, during those 13 days the Soviets shot down a U2 spy plane killing a US soldier. The US instituted an Navel Blockade which is considered to be an act of war. Additionally the US dropped practice depth charges which was mistaken for real depth charges by one. That Soviet sub thinking war had broken out the sub initiated the process to launch nuclear torpedoes. The only reason they didn’t fire was because it required the agreement of three officers and only the second in command voted against it. The fact that there were multiple instances where the decision on one or two men were the only reason nuclear war didn’t break out should count.

[@enochianwolf]

@@teamsdownfall9644 this guy is a arxist M but his politics are Good and Healthy. Just don't open a real history book.

[@willardplaysgames6060]

Boldest thumbnail I've ever seen, 10/10 now I'm gonna watch the video.

[@BattleBro77]

It's funny to watch this video and read the comments. Everyone is dancing around the very specific ideological group that is doing this to every hobby. It's not politics in general, it is one specific ideology born from a lazy man-child called Karl.

[@Guncriminal]

I suspect "Karl" would have actually hated these people.

[@enochianwolf]

@@Guncriminal so long as he got free room and board and didn't have to work for a living, he'd support whoever and whatever. also, most of us can't speak plainly because of the deletion filter.

[@mrhjko]

There has been one fundamental truth in Warhammer: your hobby is yours, and you should do what you like with it. If this is what the artist likes to paint, I'm behind them 100% as a fellow hobbyist. If they do this with the intent to change what I do with the hobby, then they can go pound sand. This behavior is perfidious, hypocritical, and it's where my aversion comes from regarding injecting politics into any hobby. We have always supported painting your marines a different colour.

[@scoticvsgossage9378]

Cerberus XT is the artist, and yes he is pushing this crap into the hobby with gleeful abandon. The guy loves to stir drama in the community.

[@sunrisesparkle6363]

Nah, you can absolutely have politics in stories. The real issue is that modern politics are bland as fuck. Now futurism or God building, sun worship, enlightened divine ruralist monarchy or anarcho monarchism for short, Christian anarchism, that is the kind of politics we need in the stories. Inter war politics were truly superior.

[@BattleBro77]

Fuck yea

[@ForestGoblinJo]

Those are some good looking 3rd Legion.

[@Dimes607]

I will continue to build my America guard army with inquisitor trump with 3d printed and third party models

[@mikev8746]

Here's the problem with people who infiltrate politics into ones hobby. I've realized this after a long time contemplating the issue. The issue is : These people's hobby IS POLITICS. They don't give a fuck about having fun with games, tabletop, rock climbing, sports etc. Their entire passion is their social bubble and the politics that they deploy from their religious cult like sect. That's what they get hyped for in the morning when getting out of bed.

[@kalashnikovdevil]

Certainly explains why they're a bunch of joyless, witless, shitless fucks. Sounds like a miserable way to live.

[@hendrikmoons8218]

Original WH30/40k is the most brutal, openly hostile to everything and everyone. I wish only 2 things for it: 1. No real life politics to be entered, so be gone lefty woksters. We never needed you, all was fine without you, go away and stay away. 2. Make the hobby internaly way more violent and for all I care WAY MORE XENOPHOBIC! We are curently laking in xenophobic genocides on sectorwide level and we extinct way to few species in our hobby. ps: No retconing Custodes are ALL male, the sisters of silence are FEMALE. Space Marines are all male BATTLEBROTHERS, Sisters of Battle are an exclusive FEMALE, XXchromosone sisterhood. Both serving the godlike corpse emperor of man(kind). (Unless you are a traitor, well then, worship chaos I think... I'll be sending the inquisition over...) For all these reasons, I'm team Xeno's, mainly Tyranid. And since they are insectiods, it is safe to asume that 99.98% are female... So I am with the vile female faction that outnumbers all other factions piled up against me...

[@DarkKnightCuron]

Gonna be perfectly honest, when they announced female custodes, I heavily considered starting a Tyranid army. If GW is going to ruin its own setting, I might as well help in its demise, yeah?

[@whiteslann9154]

Agree with you 100%

[@twoaf3261]

Goodluck with the fallout from this episode Macca. Stay strong mate 😅

[@iValz]

I will start this by saying that I don't hate you or your content. I might disagree with few things but I also agree on others. I don't think my existence should be a political issue but it is and it won't change anytime soon. But that is not what I actually want to talk about. 1. LGBT+ people also do want escapism. I do agree that some people do want to make things about themselves no matter who they are. 2. I agree that if people start to complain to someone who made a Nazi army it's bit dumb. Your models, do what ever what you want. 3. I don't agree that Imperium would care about this, if you are a human and not a heretic or mutant and don't want to fuck a xenos, do what you want. 4. This is just for argument. What about a gay man you has been playing warhammer since it started? It is a much his hobby as yours

[@Guncriminal]

No one's ever excluded LGBT people.

[@bigjess7406]

Every normal fan is screaming this.

[@EditingComby]

I'll preface that I agree with most progressive politics, and I think people should tolerate and respect one another. I don't think women, trans people, gay people or anyone in the LGBTQ community (if there is such a thing) should be shunned or treated poorly and I think all people deserve to live comfortable lives and be allowed their dignity and opinions, with the exception of the most extreme of the extreme. Heck, I'm bisexual. I am one of the LGBTQ. That said, I think there is a pervasive issue with a lot of politics in the modern era in that people cling to them *too hard* and the internet allows politics that are completely inapplicable for one part of the world to be transferred outside and for any political thoughts to be amplified, and a feedback loop to form that constantly makes issues seem more important and worse than they are regardless of what state they are in in your country. At some point, asking for tolerance flipped to asking for acceptance. Then asking for acceptance turned into asking for agreement and support, and I think that's where things went off rails. No opinion became fence-sitting, centrism became 'only the middle of every issue matters'-style of whataboutism or mockery of 'enlightened centrism', and talking heads on either side became more and more radicalized into the most hardcore of views. I believe most people are kind, and that kindness is exploited intentionally or unintentionally by companies, by social media and by politicians and political figures to promote their view of society rather than allowing people to form their own feelings and thoughts. I don't agree that people find things to be mad at when they don't have real issues. In fact, I think we have many real issues that are connected to these things. I don't think I have to say too much about the issues of wealthy disparity, looming war, rising calls for theocracy, communism, fascism or genuine threats and dangers to peoples lives, livelihoods and the ideal of democracy. People are angry and frustrated, and it's easy for others to manipulate that anger and frustration into supporting their causes as cure-alls for society. Warhammer is in a bit of a special spot in that it is a universe that should be unenviable. The Imperium are not heroes, nor are they outright villains, but they exist as a darker shade of grey in a universe that has very little true good - that is what gives Warhammer contrast to things like Star Trek or Star Wars that are more idealized. It should be humanity's worst impulses run amok after the fall of a golden era (that probably wasn't that golden to begin with), but with some (possible) justification. Xenos are an existential threat. Diplomacy generally doesn't work because the other major races do not accept anything but total acceptance of their ideas. Chaos can upend the Imperium if allowed to run unchecked. I think it's been a steady slope since 5th-ish edition where increasingly you could see the authors that came in as fans drifting away from those principles and trying to make the Imperium heroic. If you read the 8th edition rulebook introduction, you can see that the Imperium of the current era ARE heroic and defiant in the face of destruction, but held back by nobles and others who treat people atrociously. It has inverted its foundational principles. The corpse-empire running on fumes and the bodies of its citizens with some good people in it became a shining beacon of good people at the top that's trying to climb out of the hole with some bad people holding it back. And I think that's really sad. The more you look the more you begin to see how everything Warhammer had before has been inverted by well-meaning fans who just don't see the bigger picture or are too focused on making political points they feel they HAVE to make to 'own the chuds' or 'gatekeep the progressives', or just troll everyone. It shows you that its kind of lost its way and nobody really cares to bring it back on track because they're too focused on pettiness and mean-spirited fighting over ownership. They all have some valid points (as the current prevalence of LGBTQ marines or the like is just a reflection of the mid-00s Nazi and Fascist marine chapters and DKoK with SS helmet emblems but on a greater scale) and yet neither can see the forest for the trees.

[@BattleBro77]

Intersectionalism infiltrates western liberal countries by wearing their morality like a skin suit. Once it has power, it sheds the skin suit to reveal the creature beneath.

[@enochianwolf]

The fact that you think democracy exists in the west is hilarious, and you self admittedly agree with progressive ideals. Someone needs a harsh lesson in history.

[@EditingComby]

@@enochianwolf I believe a good foundation was laid from which most nations have strayed. It's been undermined by plenty of things in the years since, but it doesn't change that I hope it can become something better one day or that aspects of it remain. I don't find all progressive ideals harmful, either, but I don't agree with them on everything - you *can* pick and choose, contrary to what many people seem to think. There's plenty of delusion across all political aisles. I've studied history enough to know that when people cling to ideology over empathy, and claim to know solutions to all social ills lie in defeating some opponent rather than reflecting, it never ends well. That's rather my point.

[@enochianwolf]

@@EditingComby while your hypothetical citizen is reflecting on their empathy, their actual real world counterparts are spending every waking second thinking how to best destroy them. you might need to look into history again and maybe check your test levels.

[@EditingComby]

@@enochianwolf If that's your take on history and society, then I don't really know what to say beyond that I disagree with your assessment and that it's rather sad that you seem to think very little of your fellow man. All I'll say is this: The solution to any problem will never be more of the same problem. Fighting ideology with ideology is just asking to shift power from one group of maniacs to another.

[@chaosisbaeos]

I think if someone is commited to the trans flag marines and they really want that look just make it work in the lore. Emperors children is cliche but it would work. You could use all sorts of clashing bright colours and feminise the faces and say the apothecaries did some HRT and xenos augmentic surgeries etc lol. it's kind of a meme but it would also work in the lore and would look kind of cool to be honest. And the best thing about it would be you can have your fem marines, your not bending the lore to politics and you did something creative and interesting. But the truth is, I think some people honestly just enjoy ruining stuff. They don't want sisters of battle, they want female space marines. It's not about female representation or whatever, it's about winning the political battle. But there we go. My unsophisiticated opinion among millions on the internet for no one to read lol 😂

[@corvus_armatura7595]

Nah, it's not unsophisticated. EC is actually fairly varied because of how warbands work and that their leaders want different things to be perfect though.