Keeping Reptiles in Europe VS America

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

🦎🐍🐸 *For more info on The BioDude's amazing product line, please visit:* www.thebiodude.com/ or www.youtube.com/@TheBioDudeJoshHalter

[@EUHerppodcast]

Higly appreciate you helping us launch this adventure! Was a great talk.

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

I agree, great chat! It was my pleasure. Can’t wait to see your show evolve and grow!

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

Hope youu interview Petko. I find his videos about the lack of veterinary care in Croatia to be interesting. We're in a similar situation in Canada.

[@DomesticDinos]

Thank you for showcasing new podcasts. There are a lot out there but not a lot of quality channels. Really appreciate all you and your guests do for the hobby.

[@ShaneCole]

Interesting comment about racks and old school keepers. I been keeping for 25yrs and racks only really came in with the royal morphs in the early 00's up till then we all kept in vivs

[@valterbrunojorge9540]

Great episode. Couldn't have better ones representing Europe. Congratulations guys. Dylan keep on going strong. ❤❤❤❤❤

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Thank you for watching, glad you enjoyed it!

[@til.landsioideae]

Thanks a lot for your support Dillon!

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

My pleasure, Til!

[@unseen.diversity]

Excited for what's about to come! 🌿🌿🌿

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Me too!!

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

Excited

[@TinoAnttila]

Familiar faces! Awesome🤘🏼 And Til, nice shirt 😎

[@til.landsioideae]

Haha cheers, I still like that one a lot ☺️

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Thanks for watching, Tino! Hopefully you’ll be a future guest on their show 😉

[@TinoAnttila]

I’m doing my best to learn some english first 😁 But yeah i’d appreciate it ofcourse!

[@Stumpwater27]

Today has been so bad and depressing really needed this! A+ stuff mate

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Glad I could help make the day a little better! Hope everything is OK on your end!

[@unseen.diversity]

Let tomorrow be a bit better. So may be the next day. And the day after 🤞 Tiny improvements complement over time.

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

1:02:00 - yes, the custom-made ones with the metal vents. If you go on dart frog forums, Europeans, regardless of nationality, explain to USians cabinet makers make them locally because glass is cheap. Whereas in Canada and US, everything is freighter in

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

Frighted*

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

If you go to Petko's channel on Dark Den based in Croatia, he literally hand holds his American audience how to find glass for cheap. He doesn't have to explain that to his European audience how to find affordable glass

[@T23T-vz6qb]

I think a big difference is that in North America, keeping reptiles as pets is way more normalised and way more accessible. In Europe, where it's less common, for a person to seek out a pet snake or other reptile, they have to be more driven and it's much more of a niche interest. A natural side-effect of that is that they're more likely to do more research, be more conscientious, etc.

[@lauraosanitch6088]

I could be completely wrong or biased, but I always feel like more Europeans are into naturalistic keeping, as well as being thorough. USA keepers tend to be about efficiency. Canada? I have no idea! Thoughts?!😁

[@mortesloquimur]

When I first started keeping (almost 9 years ago now) I raised up my Dumeril's Boa and Ball Python in a tub system. I got them 4x2x2 when they got to a 41 qt. I will never ever forget the first time I saw my ball python climb and explore all the features I put in. I felt a mixture of awe and guilt, knowing he could have had those experiences sooner. It made me wonder what else we got wrong in the early days. Im grateful to this podcast for helping us all keep our husbandry on point!

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Thank you so my for being a listener!

[@vids595]

The aluminum rack systems, the use of front vented tanks, and even foam backgrounds were all from Europe (I believe Germany & NL). I do feel that in the 90's and 2000 Northern/western Europe led the way. But overall I really dont think there is much difference.

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

Yeah. After living in both Canada and Finland, there isn't too much of a difference. Most of the difference is because of animal welfare laws or decrees issued by Ministry of Agriculture; and shipping/distribution of materials. And people live in smaller houses or apartments. That, and European fish-keeping is much older than reptile-keeping. "Euro-style" vivariums are not available in Canada because cabinet makers and other similar professions who need to use up wasted glass materials don't know how to upcycle or repurpose surplus materials. And the aluminum frames are not as common because shipping between cities in North America sucks badly. I do like metal halide lamps. But their absence in Canadian herpetoculture doesn't make an impact.

[@dacisky]

This was interesting. Also a plant person. I really find it more fun to collect plants than animals.

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching 😀

[@marjoleinvnoort6961]

I like to build my own enclosures because I like them big. I’m now building one 220 cm meter wide x140 cm meter deep x 120 cm high with 4 uv/ heat lights for my bearded dragon. I’m not puttering plants in it. But 3D rock wall with caves and wooden sticks and real stones. Love the video ❤

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

That sounds like an awesome project! Thank you for watching episode

[@stefanostokatlidis4861]

I am sure that you can keep multiple dragons there and then you can watch them interact and communicate

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

2:10 - funny youu should say Canada, because a lot of time when USianns say Europeans in the reptile hobby, they mean Germany. Dog hobby has the same issue. When USians say European, they mean Sweden or Finland more often than not.

[@vids595]

Something that has always bothers me about staghorn ferns, stags do not have horns, they have antlers.

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

😂 great point!!

[@stefanostokatlidis4861]

Most languages don’t really make the distinction.

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

1:03:00 - if it's not Exo-Terra, ZooMed or Zilla, the only option for large enclosures locally are aquariums inn petstores or DIY wooden enclosures at the hardware store. Or ordering PVC from magazine catalogues/online

[@vids595]

And Hagen has ended distribution of most of the larger sized exo terra natural vivariums in North America.

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

@@vids595 ah, crap, that really limit the options for "ethical breeding projects" I had in mind given a lot of the care guides adhering to European animal welfare laws are kind of like "3 times the SVL" or "5 times the SVL" for width and height.

[@davidkerridge3889]

im looking at setting up a podcast over here in the UK, and you guys hit the nail on the head. I have been speaking to figureheads within the industry in the UK from pro show, to against, including vets, store owners, academics etc, and it is so political. certain acts and legislation in place prevent a lot of the business side. The show cant be vended if you have an AAL for example,. The risk of shows here personally by activists, councils etc towards the vendor as an individual. There is a lot to consider over here that promotes privacy within which is a real shame. I am a vendor and have been for many years. As such, I have seen the changes and the political divide even within ourselves. This is the reason for privacy. We can see changes that are needed but have our hands tied a little. mix that with the welfare act, UK size, availability etc, and you have a recipe for challenge. So much to talk about in UK and Europe, especially with viv building...we all build our own vivs here lol:-) look forward to seeing what you are doing.

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Thanks for the comment, and thanks for watching the episode! Looking forward to istening your podcast once you launch it!

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

39:39 - well, yeah, when a former friend started running photography and terrarium competitions at the local expo in Canada 15 years ago, he got that from the European aquascaping and dart-frog hobbies, not from the reptile-keeping

[@stefanostokatlidis4861]

I know The Terrarium Channel and it is an excellent channel. One of the very few English speaking channels in mainland Europe that I can understand. Europeans tend to be quite thorough and very methodical in their work. This is probably why they are more private. They want to be sure that they are doing the job correctly and probably others are judgemental as well. Also, there is not this extreme show culture, like in the US. We don’t have it. Now, from the few channels I know from Canada, the Canadian version of the hobby to me at least seems much more like the European rather than the American one. That is why Europeans create those amazing habitats with so much work in it. On the other hand, this extreme thoroughness and thoughtfulness is quite overbearing. Sometimes Americans find some quick, smart, practical solutions that also work. I am undecided on this. Where on this spectrum is a true balance? In Greece, the keeping is more similar to what happens in the US, as well as the equipment. The people are both private, but this is to avoid the gatekeepers and complainers. In fewer words, shitty keepers that pretend to be no it all. There is also the notion here that Germans are the best.

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Very well summarized!

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

1:06:00 - yes, varanoid keepers in the US tried to copy the modular aluminium frames with plastic panels they see in German magazines but the parts from construction suppliers are very expensive. Literally cheaper to build out of plywood

[@unseen.diversity]

I'd say, it's the same here, price wise. But once you move places, you will see that the extra investment is worth it 🤞

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

@@unseen.diversity It's the shipping. Like when I was living in Karkkila and Nummela, Helsinki and Turku were near by, and Tampere wasn't unreasonable. But if you're living in a small city in Alberta, receiving shipments from Edmonton or Calgary is expensive. Especially since everything has to pass through Vancouver, Montreal or Toronto first.

[@lauraosanitch6088]

Is there a way to talk about COOLING systems for reptiles? There are several species touted as easy to keep because they need no extra heat, but we all know many places get excessively hot in summer seasons. Some folks don't use A/C. Others do but there can be brownouts or blackouts where electricity goes. Not all keepers have basements either. There can be cool substrate, but some keepers keep new acquisitions or neonates on paper towels for hygiene and health tracking reasons. More options should be explored. Heat provisions are endlessly discussed. Cooling matters too!

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Especially for folks who keep species that should be rated, it’s difficult to do unless you set up a fridge or have a cold basement like you suggest. I will investigate this topic!

[@vids595]

There maybe solutions but there are also times when a persons living or finical situation means that they should not keep a particular species. This is something that essentially never discussed. There are finical barrier to every hobby.

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

Every solution in the fish hobby seems to involve upcycling broken fridges or freezers

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

And far as I know the most cost-effective are the AC units that sit on your window stalls. The standalone ones are not effective, and at a certain web bulb temperature all AC units stop being effective.

[@lauraosanitch6088]

@@vids595 The finances of herp keeping is an important subject to explore unto itself. One could keep fewer species or total animals to make up for paying $$ for cooling. But it's also simply a question of having more than one option, or not being dependent on one, or even dependent on an electricity network in case something breaks. That may be more about planning than $$.

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

53:30 - hahaha, i know which books in Dutch being mentioned. I have them

[@xc1971pp]

North Ameeica is just Canada and U.S.A. but Europe is not only Germany and The Netherlands... What about Southern Europe, for example?... Also, does only people who have KZbin channels are the only worth mentioning reptile and amphibian keepers?... Do you have to have a KZbin channel to be considered "serious" and have stories worth to listen to?... I hear 20-30 years old guys saying they've kept reptiles and amphibians all their life and I ask what would you feel about 52 year old guys like me that have kept herps all their lives? Don't their knowledge and experience matters?... Otherwise, good show as always. My best regards, Paulo ( from Portugal )

[@AnimalsatHomePodcast]

Thanks for watching Pablo! I’m sure the boys will have people from all over Europe on their podcast, so make sure you stay tuned to their show. If you check out Stefan’s channel, he does quite a few collection tours of people who have been keeping for 30+ years or more. The issue is many of the “ old timers” don’t like being on camera, which is understandable!

[@1faithchick7]

Mexico is also actually part of North America. :)

[@stefanostokatlidis4861]

First of all, nobody cares about Southern Europe. It is a hobby backwater anyway. Maybe Italy is the exception, and mostly northern Italy which is culturally Moore Germanic. Second, there is a lot of knowledge outside of KZbin, but the fact is that those people don’t want to share information, therefore it isn’t accessible.

[@hefoxed]

Thoughts on diff between us and Europe - US is multicultural, but white folk still have the most power and some cultural homogeneity, vs Europe has and is near many different cultures, where the majorities are signicately different from each other, so it's more likely someone can grow a business that will be culturally different from someone else also growing a similar business, and the cultural difference may with different perspective/ different experimation. The language barrier may have also contributed to this. - US is dominated by big corporate stores like petco. They seemed to have gone the cheap fish tank promoting route, to appeal to wildiest audience, which promoted poor care and ended up scaring people away from fish keeping and also exotic animal keeping. aka getting a fish bowl as part of the "America Dream" - Closer to Asia which has a super strong and long fish keeping cultural? - the animals right movement being perhaps strogner against exotics due to the more visible poor keeping? - Strong movie/tv industry (hollywood), that showed poor fish keeping standards - Toxic masculinity? With the American dream being killed by corporate greed/poor public policy, many can't keep provide for a family like they could previously, among other issues (like people being less likely to join the military* to defend the country due to likely the reducation of benefits and demoralizing forever wars), leading to men trying unhealthy outlets like trying to get a giant snake -- but not having proper resources or education to care for that snake (recently watched that the old episode about the fat snake death, and some of his comments feed this theory). On the lot of animals vs just a few topic: I somewhat trust the keepers that have only a few animals or one about the animal they have over ones that have mass pets -- in particular, about the intelligence, sociality, hand ability, trainability, behaviors of the species -- things that can need a lot of one on one time. But for other things -- lighing. tech, build techniques, feeders -- things that having a lot of different experiences with -- I'd trust those with more animals more.

[@vids595]

There are many cultures among USA's white folks.

[@hefoxed]

@@vids595 Yes, but not as culturally different from European cultures to my understanding, and at least share a common language (outside of regional words) I'm born in US white, but my parents are British and we were able to culturally fit well into American culture in various parts of the country -- I forget I am a child of immigrants-- vs listening stories from immigrants that aren't British, it's not as easy a fit.

[@imtheslothking]

Lol its like a porsche and hellcat but let's not get it twisted, EVERYTHING IN Europe better than AMERICA

[@vids595]

There are many things that western Europe does better then the USA in my opinion. Here is what Chat GTP says the USA is objectively doing better at; "The comparison between the USA and Europe can be complex due to the diversity within Europe itself, but there are some areas where the USA is often considered to have advantages. Here are several aspects where the USA might be seen as objectively better: Higher Education: Top Universities: The USA is home to many of the world's top-ranked universities, such as Harvard, MIT, and Stanford. These institutions attract students and researchers from around the globe and are leaders in innovation and research. Research Opportunities: The USA tends to have better-funded research programs and a higher number of Nobel laureates. Economic Opportunities: Job Market: The USA often has a more dynamic job market with greater opportunities for career advancement and higher salaries, especially in tech, finance, and entertainment industries. Entrepreneurship: The entrepreneurial ecosystem in the USA, particularly in places like Silicon Valley, is highly developed with more access to venture capital and support networks for startups. Cultural Influence: Entertainment Industry: Hollywood is the global leader in film production, and the USA's music, television, and entertainment industries have a massive global influence. Popular Culture: American brands, media, and cultural products are ubiquitous and have a significant impact worldwide. Innovation and Technology: Tech Giants: Many of the world's leading technology companies, such as Apple, Google, Amazon, and Microsoft, are based in the USA. Innovation Hubs: The USA has multiple innovation hubs that foster technological advancements and startups. Military Power: Defense Capabilities: The USA has the largest and most technologically advanced military in the world, providing significant geopolitical influence. Global Presence: The extensive network of military bases worldwide and the ability to project power globally. Natural Landscapes and National Parks: Diverse Landscapes: The USA has a wide range of natural landscapes, from the Grand Canyon to Yellowstone, offering diverse outdoor activities. National Parks: The national park system in the USA is extensive and well-developed, providing excellent preservation and access to natural beauty. Infrastructure and Space Exploration: Space Exploration: NASA has been a pioneer in space exploration, with achievements like the Apollo moon landings and the Mars rovers. Infrastructure: While this is a mixed category, certain infrastructure projects, like the interstate highway system and major airports, are often highlighted. Consumer Choices and Services: Retail and Shopping: The USA offers a vast array of consumer goods, often at lower prices and with more choices than in Europe. Customer Service: The standard of customer service in the USA is generally high, with an emphasis on consumer satisfaction. These points reflect areas where the USA is often perceived to excel. However, it's important to note that Europe has its own strengths and advantages in many other areas, such as healthcare, public transportation, and social safety nets."

[@1faithchick7]

Having lived in Europe for a while, I massively disagree. Canada and the US are rated higher in friendliness, the US has laws protecting freedom of speech and religion (most countries in Europe do not), the US has a higher cancer survival rate then... well everywhere, my housing is far cheaper and larger than most of Europe, in most places we still have massive untouched and protected forests filled with animals we didn't hunt into extinction unlike many countries in Europe, our stores and produce are insane compared to most countries in Europe, we are more diverse racially, and we give more to chairity and to protect other countries than any other country. The US is as culturally diverse as the entire continent of Europe. Europeans who come here said friendliness in the US and Candada freaked them out because we talk to everyone like we are long lost friends. Every country has strengths and weaknesses. It's so silly to claim Europe is better in every way.

[@user-jb7jt6gs7h]

I don't want to discuss which place is "better", but I feel like the stuff you mention betrays a surprising lack of insight for someone who use to live here? For example: we have a different relationship with charity because we have a different relationship with taxes and expect our government to fill more of a role. There's pros and cons to that but I wouldn't consider it morally inferior. I'm also curious where you lived that there was no freedom of religion, because besides the occasional making things harder for Muslims, Europe tends to do really well with that, and in most countries there's a very solid concept of separation of church and state.

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

​​@@user-jb7jt6gs7hYeah, I wouldn't ding Europe for lack of wilderness considering conservation movement only began last century, and much of what remains now in the US is the West; and politicians are constantly trying to overturn conservation laws.

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

@@user-jb7jt6gs7h The other thing I know is since I lived in Finland, friendliness vary regionally. Helsinki area? Yeah, people are quiet and reserved. Lapland? People are very chatty. Even eastern Finland is very different from Helsinki area. And it's the same in Canada, not every region is outwardly friendly. Vancouver is known to be quite reserved compared to other Canadian cities. The above paragraph about USA being better than Europe is very weird when the OP was clearly talking about commodities (Porsche vs Dodge). Like, if you really wanted to negate the assertions about Europe being better than USA, you could just point to IKEA and H&M existing. I get what the OP means-- everyone in the gun community wants a Sako rifle, but most people buy Tikka. Or using the person's car example of Porsche versus Dodge Challenger, um... many of the daily drivers I know have Peugeots, Fiats and Renaults if they can't afford the Swedish or German brands (yes, I know Japanese and Korean cars are more common), and they don't have very good things to say about them (because Finnish winters, lol)

[@ShaneCole]

Interesting comment about racks and old school keepers. I been keeping for 25yrs and racks only really came in with the royal morphs in the early 00's up till then we all kept in vivs

[@ZaryaTheLaika]

Yeah, you can buy a rack system in Germany and Netherlands online (mentioning those two countries only because Google seems to mess up the least with their machine-translation). But, people tend to keep things like ball pythons and hognose snakes in them. And if you watch videos from German commercial breeders (sometimes they are subtitled in English, like ReptilTV), the breeders complain about government's welfare guidelines not allowing them to compete economically with American commercial breeders. When the guests mentioned the crappy side of European reptile-keeping, I know what they're talking about. There were still Finnish reptile-keepers who kept snakes in shoeboxes like we do in Canada. And as long neighbours isn't too nosy, some of the stuff that isn't allowed under Finnish welfare decrees don't get reported to the police.