Silicone Keg Lid O-rings Allow Huge Amounts of Oxygen to Destroy Your BEER!

[@beanrod]

Keep it up guys appreciate the no stand still approach to R&D! Great to see a company where the passion is just about doing everything to the best possible standard. That engineering background in the team continues to foster strong product design. Seeing the nuka blacks with ss heads was another clear design choice where practicality was first and foremost.

[@KegLand]

Thanks for the support. We really appreciate it!

[@fdk7014]

It's interesting that it is a significant difference in a lab environment but that doesn't really say anything about the effects in the real world. It would be interesting to have an independent test where 3 kegs were filled with the same beer, one with a silicone ring, one with silicone and some antioxidant in it (ascorbic acid perhaps) and one with this new ring. Then taste and measure the beers after 1 week, 1 month and 6 months to see if there's any difference.

[@KegLand]

If you are putting any antioxidants in the beer this will also negate the effects to some degree. I personally use a small amount of SMB into the water before I start an oxygen free transfer process. This also takes the oxygen out of the water that is left on the sides of the keg wall. Even if you do use ascorbic acid or SMB then you still want to use an o-ring with low oxygen transmission rate as it means you can add less of these preservatives and ensure they are below the taste threshold. So irrespective of using preservatives or not it's still a good idea to use the best barrier storage vessel you can.

[@gregiles908]

Do a Forcing Test, don't wait months.

[@Jlgjlg777]

😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅8uuii

[@geradmiller]

Super great information and I appreciate the deep dive into the scientific method! It would be great to see how the standard black o-rings stood up to both the white and yellow o-rings if you forgive the deformation.

[@KegLand]

The issue that we have found is that there is not really a "standard black" either. We see silicone black ones, nitrile, EPDM and often the supplier doesn't tell you what O-ring is coming with the keg.

[@geradmiller]

@@KegLand ah, that makes sense.

[@Beerstories]

Cool 😊 Thanks for the test!! What about testing seals for tri-clamps. If you’re fermenting under pressure in more advanced uni tanks, you have quite a lot of seals on them for hop droppers, tasting valves, spunding valves etc

[@KegLand]

To be frank if you use silicone the same issues will exist. We are in the process of making Low2 o-rings for TC Fittings to. If it's in the fermenter it's probably not as big an issue as the yeast will essencially be soaking up the oxygen and the beer is only in the fermenter for a couple weeks. For long term storage like kegs or bright tanks it's a substantial ussue.

[@Enzo-c5j]

​@@KegLandOK, but many users still want use Kegmenters for a long term maturation not only for the fermentation. Kegmenters are basically kegs as i undestood.

[@PaulAldred]

Great work as always! Was wondered why the spare keg kit I bought a few months ago had a different coloured O ring. Lol bought a few more and spurred me to put another order in for general stuff. Awesome as always 😊

[@KegLand]

Thanks for the support. We really appreciate it. We have actually been selling the new o-rings for quite some time but been a bit slow to do this video.

[@2874mattm]

awesome info, was just thinking now I need to buy new Orings. but as always top customer service.

[@BJMacey]

Thanks 👍 I have old legs I've been meaning to replace rings on.. just grabbed a handful to swap out 😊

[@KegLand]

Thanks for the support. We appreciate it!

[@jeffgunderson7620]

Great video! You've sent me down the rabbit hole of evaluating the barrier properties of all the seals in my home brewery (at least on the cold side). Just as point of clarification from what I hear in the video and read in the comments/replies- it seems like Low2 and Nitrile/Buna-N O-rings have similar O2 barrier properties. But the but the Low2 formulation has better chemical resistance and seals easier than Nitrile/Buna-N O-rings?

[@clintbee6874]

I use some 4L and 5L mini kegs for long term storage of big ABV beers and meads. I'd love to know the oxygen permeability of the tapping heads.

[@KegLand]

Yes that is a good point. I think we should make some low2 o-rings for the mini kegs too.

[@beersontap]

Great video! lots to consider...actually nothing to consider...need to get these o-rings. love the ending

[@Peter-Southern-Victoria-Aust]

A few years ago I bought 2 Kegs from Kegland I must admit I haven't had any problems with sealing, probably because I drink the beer in a short amount of time 🤣

[@bartdegroof4783]

How about silicon gaskets for the fermenters? They have the same issue I assume?

[@KegLand]

We are not as concerned about fermenters as the active yeast in the fermenters will scrub out oxygen. I would be more concerned about long term storage where the yeast is no longer active.

[@Schikitar]

Wow, really interesting and thanks for backing this up with the science! 👏 Got me thinking about the orings on the fermzillas, pressure kits, keg posts etc., any scope/need to replace any of those in the future?

[@KegLand]

For fermentation vessels where you have active yeast I think the issue is greatly reduced as the yeast will scrub out the oxygen. With that said for any storage vessel where the yeast is not active this is a big issue which a lot of customers are not aware of. We do sometimes see customers use Fermzilla's or other PET kegs for long term storage but this is a bad idea. For "kegs" that are made from PET we ALWAYS use at a minimum nylon in the keg wall to improve the barrier performance which is what we do in our PCO38 kegs and we are also planning to bring out some 20L kegs with the same barrier type. I hope this video creates greater awareness of this issue and make customers think about what type of vessel they are using for each purpose.

[@Trevtao]

sold out..... hopefully back in stock before the month is out

[@mrknaldhat]

I'm surprised! So important to know! I always wondered why my hazies went to cardboard so quickly even though I've been absolutely hysterical about oxygen ingress after pitching yeast. Closed transfer, dry hopping with a purged hop bong etc... So I started using some campden (sodium/potassium metabisulfite) and has never had a problem since. But now I know why! Likely all silicone tri-clamp gaskets too! Such important test here, thank you very much! I guess the O-rings inside the ball-lock posts (the little ones at the end of the poppets) should be replaced too? They are much smaller with less surface area, but still... Tiny expense

[@KegLand]

Please do the test yourself. Get one keg with your current silicone o-ring and then use another keg with the low2 o-rings. We did this and noticed a huge difference with hazy NEIPA. I am confident you will also notice the same thing. Light colour hazy beers with heaps of hops really taste bad when they get even small amounts of oxygen into them.

[@artmilburn8251]

Just curious if a similar test was performed on nitrile o-rings...

[@Enzo-c5j]

What about Kegmenter TC seals? Are these EPDM seals safe or are these leaking as well? Maybe then produce TC seals from the Low2 compound as well?

[@stoj78]

It would be good to get a similar product with transfer lines of varying diameters. Tygon is avaiable but very expensive.

[@samstock6565]

I use a lot of Cornelius kegs for ageing so hoping you can do the 2 inch and 4 for kegmenters and their tri clovers!? Would be awesome thanks

[@KegLand]

Yes that is a fair point. We are going to bring out some Low2 seals for all the TC range too.

[@adrianreed5464]

Will these be available through your Aliexpress store. You have some yellow ones onnthere but they say they are silicone?

[@KegLand]

If they are yellow they will be the new LOW2 compound. I think they have probably forgot to update the description if that is the case. I will contact them now.

[@adrianreed5464]

@@KegLand perfect, thanks for the reply.

[@NykolaiMcherron]

Would be great to do a side by side. Brew a large single batch of hoppy beer and leave out in a room w/ varying keg types (i.e. old seal vs new, steel vs PET, PET vs Mono, etc). Would be a great visual and taste comparison to watch :)

[@KegLand]

Yes I should have done that too but the video was already getting a big long. I did side by side comparison on a NEIPA and the difference was huge. Even without tasting you can visually see the color difference.

[@ianwhitford3596]

I remember the original Firestone and Cornelius seals, They were a closed cell foam rubber type and the diptube seals were quad seals. The kegs were designed for soda pop use where oxidisation is not such a problem.

[@KegLand]

Yes that is right. Soda is not oxygen sensitive but as we use these kegs now exclusively for beer I think we should really be more careful with what compounds we choose.

[@chrisinestes]

Really… even with the kegs under pressure with CO2?

[@Opm3t]

What about your oxebar kegs leaking through the PRVs? They ruined 16litres of perfect heavily hopped NEDIPA beer? Wasted 60quid because of faulty PRVs

[@wave2k868]

When we these be available at your USA suppliers?

[@jonsilvertooth6484]

Could you test EPDM seals? Also, can you tell us what the new yellow low2 seals are made of? They aren't available to me in the US yet and I'd like to know if there is something equivalent already sold here.

[@KegLand]

EPDM is also quite good and we do use some EPDM in the LOW2 o-rings but we also blend in other rubber compound to improve the spring properties. Our distributors in America already have these o-rings: KegLand has two main distributors in America. www.morebeer.com and www.williamsbrwing.com It's best to contact these guys directly and they can give you detail on what stock they have available.

[@steveinoz]

Do you make these yellow o rings with a cross section of 7.5mm and ID of 90mm to suit my old Firestone kegs?

[@hunting3372]

This is great information. Any idea how we can get these in Canada?

[@KegLand]

We do already have some distributors in Canada that I believe have some of the low2 o-ring stock. It's best if you contact our distributors directly. www.kegland.com.au/distributor

[@BitterRealityBrewing]

Any ETA for a release date in the U.S.?

[@KegLand]

Our distributors do already have stock in America. KegLand has two main distributors in America. www.morebeer.com and www.williamsbrwing.com It's best to contact these guys directly.

[@MatBarbe]

That was a great one! Very good information. Thank you guys.

[@KegLand]

Thanks for watching. Make sure to share with other home brewers!

[@Jase8Cake]

Good to know, thanks guys. Love the rings gag at the end 🙂

[@KegLand]

Thanks for watching.

[@maxhale503]

Great improvement and thanks for sharing. But, the Kegland Australia web site is out of stock and for International (non Australian) customers the Kegland CH site doesn't even have them listed. When and where will I be able to get them in New Zealand

[@KegLand]

It's best to check with your local retailer. We have started shipping them overseas but sometimes it takes some time for all the distributor to move onto all the new stock.

[@Nagellan]

Hello! What about orings for fermzilla lid? Are you going to replace them too?

[@KegLand]

We are not as concerned with vessels with active fermentation as the yeast are very effective at scrubbing out oxygen. It's a substantial issue for long term beer storage vessels though.

[@bsaurusrex]

You should test it again after 1 year to see how often to replace.

[@KegLand]

To be honest the low2 o-rings should last more than 10 years. We are using a chemical resistant elastomer that will not easily perish. The only issue with the low2 o-rings is UV. If you leave them in the sun for about 6 months they will get damaged so best to keep them out of long sun exposure.

[@seanswift8760]

Thanks for the information, very well presented. I do hoppy beers and anything to stop oxygen is very much appreciated 🍺

[@KegLand]

No problem. It was a video we have been meaning to do for a long time.

[@tcox1215]

Any idea if/when these will be available for international customers whi have lurchased your kegs in the past? I cant find any on your AliExpress store.

[@KegLand]

These are already available and we have been selling then for more than 6 months already but we just have not been marketing them until now. If you are purchasing new KegLand gear it probably already includes these o-rings.

[@HoverdogBrewery]

Next you will be telling me the rubber/silicone seal on the poppet is the cause of any oxidization or the PRV.

[@bulldog9708]

Wow pretty serious stuff, any chance of getting Bruce to smile ?

[@KegLand]

He is quite a serious kind of guy. It was his first video and it's possible that he might have been a bit nervous.

[@ItsReck1]

Is there a timeline to release these in the US market?

[@KegLand]

I think these are already in America to be honest. KegLand has two main distributors in America. www.morebeer.com and www.williamsbrwing.com It's best to contact these guys directly to check stock levels.

[@ItsReck1]

@@KegLandno, neither has them. I do business with them both regularly. At least the product is not listed on their site. I know there is usually a delay before it comes into the US market. Was hoping you had a timeline or idea for it. I suppose I will wait a little before I can test them out and get my hands on them.

[@NoMusiciansInMusicAnymore]

Was there any consideration taken for keg lubricant? I know that in my case my ring is always fully lubed.

[@KegLand]

I should have asked that. Lubrican does make a small difference and helps slightly.

[@michael1205]

A fully lubed ring is alway ideal. But sometimes I leave it dry. Its a pain at first but still works.

[@NoMusiciansInMusicAnymore]

@@michael1205 see, I find I leak too much gas if I don't keep my ring sufficiently lubed

[@veryboringname.]

@@michael1205 Strange, a fully lubed ring is meant to reduce the pain.

[@davidfoxton7905]

And if I want to order from EU?

[@KegLand]

We have some of our retailers in Europe who look like they will honor this deal too. I think some of them are waiting for more stock of the o-rings to arrive before they offer the same deal.

[@samstock6565]

Do you have these lined up for the tri clover 2 and 4”?? I mature beers in commercial kegs

[@KegLand]

This is something that we have started to look at now.

[@eduardobaeta1078]

What is the estimated lifespan of this O-ring considering the appropriate conditions of use? Thanks

[@KegLand]

Haven't had one fail yet, but this is going to depend on many factors

[@TheHeraldOfChange]

Great video, but the elephant in the room is nitrile, (existing black) what is the result with that?

[@KegLand]

Nitrile is almost as good as the Low2 O-rings. The only issue with nitrile really is that: 1. It's quite poor with sour beers. If you want to do an experiment put a nitrile o-ring into acetic acid (vinegar) and you will see the o-ring get damaged quickly. 2. Nitrile perishes quite fast so you will end up with cracked o-rings and much shorter o-ring life then the Low2 compound. 3. Nitrile has very poor spring properties and once it is squashed flat it can prevent the lid from sealing. Low2 is softer than nitrile but also has better spring properties.

[@MrSauva]

What was the pressure the gas inside the test jig? Why use "Test gas was a certified N2/O2 mix for the white O-ring, room air for the yellow O-ring." instead of CO2 which would be the standard for a beer keg?

[@KegLand]

the test rig at 1 ATM pressure inside the lid. Both tests were done in the same conditions. The lid is filled with pure Nitrogen to begin with then oxygen gradually seems in via the o-rings. The gas inside the keg makes no difference to the permeation of oxygen so the results would be the same if the lid was filled with CO2 or Nitrogen.

[@briannykjaer9624]

Oh no. All my beers are now oxygenated, even thou they dont taste like it. Good to know to that the difference between inside and outside pressure doesn't matter! Perhaps you should do a triangle test comparing the beer after three months with both types of O-rings. I will be betting on non-significant.

[@KegLand]

Hey Brian. What styles of beers do you do? If you do a neipa and leave it in a Keg for 3 months you will notice a difference if you use silicone o-rings. If you do a brown ale many home brewers would not notice. The "malty" beers are also less sensitive than the "hoppy" beers to oxygen.

[@ashleym2878]

I tried one of the yellow o rings but it was thinner than the older stile ones and wouldn't allow my older keg to seal at all so I ended up using older style o ring. Hopefully it will be good for one of my newer kegs

[@KegLand]

Can you send us a photo of your older kegs. We have not done testing on the older "racetrack" lids so I am not sure if you have that type of keg or not but that might be the issue. Reducing the o-ring thickness is also preferable as the cross sectional area is proportional to O2 ingress so ideally we want to have a smaller o-ring is generally better but it's possible that some old style kegs may not be compatible.

[@billweber1340]

How does this compare to the original NBR style of O-rings. Does the kegland replacement O-rings in the keg rebuilding kits?

[@KegLand]

NBR has reasonable oxygen barrier but the issue is the spring properties are quite bad with NBR.

[@kinggorf]

Two questions 1) How do these lids compare to EPDM & BunaN? I know that silicone is terrible, but I currently use EPDM on most of my kegs (and Buna N on others) 2) are these low O2 materials available on gas post & liquid post On rings?

[@KegLand]

1): Very well 2) in the works

[@petercocking5738]

Great work here from Kegland. It has got now me thinking about our beer lines. When we have 5+ metres to reduce foaming, how permeable are these. It would be great for kegland to test these, and if necessary, develop low permeability lines!!!

[@KegLand]

this is the reason why we use EVABarrier. The EVABarrier beer lines are already multi-layer so you will probably find they should be quite good with respect to barrier performance.

[@petercocking5738]

@@KegLand Fantastic. Ill have to check them out!

[@dougkellis1]

Have you done this type of test on EVA Barrier testing?

[@KegLand]

We are constantly re-evaluating and improving all our core products. Can't give specifics, but EVABarrier may see some changes... Not necessarily O2 related though

[@DarrylHall80]

If your keg is under pressure, how can oxygen get into the keg?

[@Jase8Cake]

As the man said, diffusion still happens regardless of pressure - which I must admit is a bit surprising. The molecular diameter of CO2 is larger than that of O2, with a value of 3.34 × 10−8 cm. Thus, based on the pore size, film can be selectively permeable to gases. The carbon dioxide barrier can be quantified by the CO2 permeability coefficient (CO2PC) with a unit of kg m/(m2 s Pa).

[@KegLand]

Yes that is right. The oxygen will still get into the keg even under pressure. I hope this video will bust the myth that pressure protect you against oxygen. It doesn't protect you at all from oxygen ingress through seals.

[@massimocamp]

Black o-rings are in silicon exactly like the white ones? Or they are produced in a different material? And did you test them too?

[@KegLand]

Unfortunately the black colour means nothing. Black nitrile exists and black silicone exists. The Low2 o-rings are a custom blend of EPDM and other elastomers to improve the barrier and spring properties.

[@telecrate]

I am still confused. I use my kegs for seltzer only. O2 intrusion control is relevant to prevent aerobic bacteria, i.e room temp or higher. Would I be better off to use non-silicone o-rings to prevent CO2 loss when O2 intrusion is not really a worry for me? I mean a 1% loss of co2 pressure over 12months at 4-6C does not matter, a 10% difference does.

[@KegLand]

Setzer is not oxygen sensitive so I would not worry too much about this to be honest. Beer is particularly oxygen sensitive as a beverage which is why we use the very low threshold of 1ppm limit.

[@AnthonyCook-fs6ts]

I watched this video only a few minutes after it was published but did not get around to ordering some Low2 o-rings until today. I now find they are now out of stock. I have a pile of Kegland kegs I bought a few years ago with silicone rings and will replace all the rings if I can. Are you going to continue the discount for the Low2 rings when they are back in stock?

[@KegLand]

Sorry about this they sold out quite fast. We have got a lot more o-rings on the way and we will extend the free o-ring promo code again when the next lot of o-rings arrive. We did not anticipate they would sell out so fast.

[@danm8411]

Why does the test report say the silicone ring was tested with n2/o2 gas mix while the yellow ring was tested with ambient air?

[@bhmptn2006]

Yes. Kinda makes it an apples & pears sort of test. Also, testing at 1 atm. What happens if you live in Denver, CO, Death Valley or in Lhasa at ~3650m/11995 feet? But apparently in the colder months in Lhasa beer is served “piping hot” so they’re probably not too concerned with CO2 or O2 levels

[@joe.skiles]

What about the o ring on the tri clamp pressure lid for fermzilla? Is that impacted as well?

[@KegLand]

Yes we are going to start manufacturing all tri-clover seals in the low2 rubber too for this reason. With that said oxygen ingress in a fermenter is not as much of a concern as the beer is only in there short term and also the ingress rate is slow enough that the oxygen can get picked up by the yeast.

[@kentwilson7080]

Are there any plans to make the new low2 O ring for the mini keg’s?

[@KegLand]

Yes we should probably do this too. I will take this to the team.

[@Tooheyspew]

excellent pitch.

[@KegLand]

Thanks.

[@davec4955]

All my corny keg beers must of oxidized without me noticing it 😮😂

[@KegLand]

on the lighter beer styles that is probably the case!

[@workfromhome8]

would this have the same effect with fermentation? or would the continuous positive pressure negate the oxygen input

[@KegLand]

I would not be as concerned with fermentation as the active yeast in the fermenter will scrub out oxygen. Really this issue is a concern with beer that you are storing for a long time especially if you have no yeast activity.

[@tomrogerberg3588]

What about the rubber O-rings that originally come with the AEB kegs, is this only a issue with the O-rings delivered with Keglands corny kegs?

[@KegLand]

I am not sure what AEB uses to be honest as we do not stock the AEB ones. Generally speaking many other manufactures have changed to silicone as the cost of silicon o-rings has come down a lot. I know the old AEB ones used the nitrile which was the compound which flattened out a lot during usage but I could not say what AEB are using now sorry.

[@tomrogerberg3588]

@@KegLand Thanx for the answere - i guess i need to invest in some Low2 -rings when they are availible here in Norway :)

[@fdk7014]

Have you considered doing tubing for CO2 in this material, if at all possible? If PVC is O2 permeable then having PVC tubing for your gas line (and probably liquid line) is no good. Stopping O2 ingress at the lid is only half the job done.

[@KegLand]

Kegland doesn't use PVC beer or gas line as all our beer line is plasticiser free and PVC flexible beer line cannot be manufactured without the use of plasticisers. So for that reason alone I would not use PVC unless you like drinking plasticisers.

[@chrisbenson5375]

Is there any O ring offer for wholesale customers? We buy around 100 corny kegs per year for resale to customers. I also notice that the O rings are now out of stock anyway. Finally, I notice that the carbonating lid that you sell still comes with the silicon O ring, will the new yellow O rings automatically be included when we order them?

[@KegLand]

The carbonating keg lid is for water and water is not oxygen sensitive so the extra cost of the Low2 o-rings will be wasted. With that said if you are a wholesale customer please email our customer service team and they can work out some type of deal for you.

[@kyripapasavva7947]

Any freebie option for those in UK who have purchased from distributors?

[@KegLand]

You will have to contact our distributors in the UK. www.kegland.com.au/distributor Some of our distributors are waiting for more stock to arrive before they do a similar free o-ring promo.

[@pbshooter100]

Just seeing this video which is now 5 months old. Just got a one of the 2.5 gal kegs for Christmas (Keg was purchased in December 2023) and it has the old style O-ring. If using these O-rings are as bad as you say for our beer you should make customers who just purchased one of your products whole regarding this badly needed fix. Again if this situation is as bad as you claim you should have retailers supply a free upgraded o-ring to customers who are currently purchasing "old" stock that has the problem 0-ring. edit: forgot to mention live in the US. Edit2: More Beer wants $9 shipping for a $4 o-ring. Yikes!! Local retailer doesn't have them so guess I'll have to wait.

[@KegLand]

We had been selling the new o-rings and kegs for more than 7 months before we released this video. With that said not all our retailers turn over the stock in a FIFO method so it's possible that you have got the wrong o-ring. I would contact your local retailer and see if they can send you a free o-ring on your next order. My guess is that they will probably just give you a free one but it's really up to the retailer/distributor.

[@pbshooter100]

@@KegLand Thanks for responding. The keg that I purchased for sure has the old o-ring. The retailer that I purchased from just opened last year so it is likely that there might still be old stock floating around out there with your distributors. Also my retailer doesn't carry the new o-ring. They sell o-ring replacement sets but they are not the new kegland yellow versions. I'm working on getting them to order some as I don't want to pay $13 for one.

[@robertearlreynolds7064]

Can you provide PPM for each o-ring?

[@KegLand]

What do you mean the PPM for each o-ring? We did include the test report link which you can download from our website.

[@itszachdude909]

What is this material based on? Tested to be good safe?

[@KegLand]

Yes all our materials are tested as this is a requirement of the NSF approval process. We get audited every year during this process to ensure the kegs are made "food safe"

[@itszachdude909]

@@KegLand I will order a bunch of these as soon as I find them available in the US.

[@tailstreats]

Looks like your video has caused a rush and you are now sold out of the new oring. I've got a few batches on the go due for kegging now, and I only have free kegs I bought from you about 8m ago before the new rings. Is there anything I can do to reduce oxidation when I keg with these right now?

[@KegLand]

Yes sorry about that. We will probably extend the amnesty period and continue the free o-ring promo for a couple more weeks once new stock arrives. If you already have kegs with beer inside probably the only way to reduce oxidation is to add sodium metabisulfite. You can remove the PRV and then use a syringe to add some into the PRV hole.

[@meekaup2465]

Does this problem affect Tri Clover silicone beaded seals what are for the Kegmenters?

[@KegLand]

Yes these will have the same issue. We are looking to have low2 o-rings for the kegmenters too. We are in the process of getting these manufactured.

[@daleclark3706]

Will you be offering the new o rings for the mini kegs?

[@KegLand]

It's quite possible that we do that too at some stage.

[@jamesdurrington9589]

what about the kegmenter? is there the same issue when using it as a keg?

[@KegLand]

Yes absolutely. We are in the process of making low2 o-rings for the Kegmenters too.

[@vemsom]

Did you test the standard black ones?

[@KegLand]

When you say "standard" the issue with the black ones is there are many different types. The nitrile black ones have good oxygen barrier performance but the issue is they have bad "spring" properties. The low2 o-rings have good spring and good barrier properties.

[@tumaswilson8]

What is the code to get the o rings?

[@KegLand]

KL03063

[@normodegard183]

What do you recommend for the o rings on gas and liquid posts?

[@KegLand]

we sell nitrile gas and liquid post o-rings. Nitrile has similar barrier performance to our Low2 O-rings but the only issue is the spring properties are not very good. The benefit of the low2 o-rings is the spring properties are reasonable but the oxygen barrier is excellent. We might end up making post o-rings from the same low2 barrier composite in the future too.

[@tc_neverstop436]

Please explain! You tell the outside air sneaks inside my C02 over-pressured kegs ?

[@beernutzbob]

Yes. According to the video, the o-ring absorbs O2 which passes through it into the keg. The C02 pressure inside the keg doesn't stop that from happening.

[@tc_neverstop436]

@@beernutzbob Thanks for your feedback! But I hope the KegLand will confirm this! So after we can close down all the safety installations in the world based on the over pressure. Like ships, oil platforms, buildings, bomb rooms etc.

[@KegLand]

Yes that is correct. Irrespective of how much pressure is in the keg oxygen will still permeate into the seals.

[@tc_neverstop436]

@@KegLand So it means all the over-pressure safety barriers is not valid.. since if this happens with O2 is likely happens with other gasses like N2, H2S...

[@lisacarruthers9649]

Are these on sale now? I'm in the UK.

[@KegLand]

It's best to check with our distributors to see if they have them available: www.kegland.com.au/distributor

[@malikai3k]

hmm i bought 8 kegs i think last year wonder what rings are on those

[@kontiii]

Check the colour

[@KegLand]

You should know from the colour of the o-ring.

[@YeastFace]

Will these be available from your distributors in the UK? Literally just bought one of your new keg lids but it has the old white o-ring.

[@KegLand]

yes. we have actually been selling them for a while but without marketing the product so they may already have some of the new stock in the UK.

[@nedt]

Wow, great effort KegLand! Thank you. Now this van of worms is open Where does this leave the fermzilla 🤔

[@KegLand]

We are not too concerned about fermenters to be honest as active fermentation protects the beer. As you would know yeast do scrub out oxygen pretty quickly. With that said once you crash chill/clarify you should be moving to keg sooner rather than later.

[@NykolaiMcherron]

@KegLand any rough guide on how long before you start running into trouble? I use my Fermzilla as a uni tank so in the past have left it an extra week or two post fermentation

[@nedt]

@@NykolaiMcherron the fermzilla is pitched as a unitank. They better release a stainless fermzilla 😜

[@beernutzbob]

Any chance these low2 o-rings could be added to your aliexpress store?

[@KegLand]

Yes we will get them on the store soon. We are a bit short of stock at the moment but we will get them up soon.

[@andrewbarker1190]

I love this amnesty but why did the list price just double? These o-rings were $2 earlier this year, now they’re $4?!

[@KegLand]

Yes the silicone o-rings were substantially cheaper than the low2 compound. We have basically taken the silicon orings off our entire site now for the lid seals and replaced them with the slightly more expensive low2 ones. I dont think it's really worth stocking the cheaper silicone to be honest so we probably will not get the cheap ones in again.

[@andrewbarker1190]

@@KegLand i’m all for the better product. But in June, these new low-2 o-rings were $2 each (and as far back as December) now in July they are double that price. What caused the 100% price rise?

[@hoff-zilla]

Since CO2 is heavier than O2 and tends to stay on top of the beer while O2 stays above it, wouldn't that natural separation minimize the concern of O2 getting into the keg? Could this potentially lessen the impact of O2 permeation and its effects on the beer's freshness?

[@beernutzbob]

The blanket of CO2 idea is a myth as diffusion causes the O2 and C02 to mix.

[@KegLand]

This doesnt really help you. If that really was the case then you would get higher concentrations of oxygen at different altitudes but this is not the case. If you are sea level or even at 4000m above sea level the percentage of oxygen is almost identical.

[@davidrogers6262]

I guess I'd better start consuming all 3 kegs of homebrew before oxidation takes place!!!😂

[@KegLand]

yes for sure. get stuck into it.

[@CrazyAboutVinylRecords]

So does this revelation make all of that great tasting beer I made suddenly suck??

[@PetraKann]

Great interview. Just because a film or gasket is made from plastic or rubber doesn’t mean that it is 100% impermeable to gases and liquids. Back pressure won’t save your product. The nuclear waste management industry learnt this lesson the hard way

[@6581punk]

Bicycle tyres go flat gradually too. So elements of the air are getting through the tubes.

[@KegLand]

@@6581punk yes absolutely. It's the same process.

[@PetraKann]

@@6581punk Ever material has a porosity, defects and fissures. In addition atoms and molecules will find a way to diffuse through latices. Every membrane can be breached in some way. One way to assist containment is though the use of electric or magnetic fields. But application of electric and magnetic fields can assist the migration of certain atoms and hinder others. Hydrogen embrittlement is a type of material degradation that usually occurs slowly but has devastating effects on equipment and seals etc. Hydrogen is the smallest atom so is very difficult to contain over long periods. Cheers

[@PetraKann]

@@users-bibi50 magnetic and electric fields are used in certainly applications for containment. Sometimes you dont have a choice such as in nuclear fusion experiments. The temperatures involved are so high that no material known can be used as a container without melting or vaporising. CHeers Mate

[@PetraKann]

@@users-bibi50 no

[@jamesdurrington9589]

dicount code wont work

[@KegLand]

Can you please email us. You have to add the o-rings then use the discount code. I just tried this then and it seems to work for me.

[@tumaswilson8]

What is the discount code

[@caesarjuliusIV]

What a Gunn.

[@KegLand]

Yes Bruce is a total Gunn!

[@niklastrippler1053]

Hmm. I can imagine it leaking a bit of O2 if both the inside and outside are the same pressure (or the outside is higher). A pressurized keg (or any environment) should keep the O2 out though. Even if there is diffusion, the pressurized container (even with some O2 in there) should be "leaking" more out, than in. If this isn't the case - I would have liked to see the same test in a more similar environment (pressurized environment with Co2).

[@jameshiggin1900]

They addressed this in the video. Pressurisation doesn't affect the diffusion of O2 from the atmosphere into the keg. Yes you are taking small quantities, but small quantities over a very long time in chemistry terms.

[@KegLand]

Pressure makes absolutely no difference to the process at all. Oxygen dissolves into the seals at the same rate and then re-evaporates back of the surface of the rubber inside the keg. This is totally unaffected by pressure. This is the major misconception that is covered in this video as a lot of people get a false sense of security thinking they are protected by pressure.

[@niklastrippler1053]

@@KegLand But doesn't pressure affect all gases equally? So with no pressure you have diffusion with O2 from outside going into the keg through the seal, but with pressure inside, the O2 which is already there would want to "escape" the pressure, therefore going out through the seal at the same rate, leaving the total O2 in the keg lower with pressure there than if there was no pressure?

[@niklastrippler1053]

@KegLand it would be nice to see 2 additional tests: 1. With the black o-ring seal from the AEB kegs. 2. The same test as this one, but with Co2 pressure inside. If these are done it would disprove a lot of the thoughts (myths?) people have about kegs and pressure, and also drive people with non-Kegland seals to switch them out. I'm feeling 50% convinced, but a bit on the fence due to "extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence". The first test is a good start, but the tests proposed here would convince a lot more people. I believe; and if the results were recreated by a third party, not related to KegLand, or GunnLabs it would probably be considered proven.

[@niklastrippler1053]

@@KegLand Does this then also mean that Co2 flushing a keg for example makes no difference?

[@markhamstra1083]

Hmmm… I’ve heard lots of people incorrectly say “silicone” when talking about things like computer chips and solar panels, but I think this is the first time I’ve heard an otherwise knowledgeable person say “silicon” when he means “silicone”.

[@KegLand]

Yes you are right. It's silicone is a bit more accurate when talking about the rubber. I guess technically the silicone rubber is made from silicon though so it's also technically correct.

[@Kampela99]

,New minikeg, lol

[@KegLand]

yes we will have a look at this too.

[@karlfromtas]

This $4 each is bullshit!!, every keg in your purchase history, you should get for$2 I've brought 14 kegs off you in the last 5 years UNFAIR KEGLAND!!!

[@KegLand]

If you use the promo code then you can get 2 free with every order. We will extend this promo period when we get more stock of the o-rings. If however you feel that this is still not fair please email us with your order number for the 14 kegs and we will work out a special way to look after you. I should say that the new o-rings are made from a raw material bend that is more than double the price when compared with silicone raw material so it should probably be expected that the new o-rings cost a bit more.

[@KegLand]

We are also going to extend the free o-ring deal when more stock arrives in the next shipment.