Better print quality using a colour test image. Test ICC profiles and new papers on your printer

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Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 55

@Stefan-oc9bo 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Keith, I am printing for years and this gave me enough stress based on the fact I tried (very hard) to let look all kind of papers the same. And you knew it of course, it doesn't work like that. Since I have seen the most of your video's and some a few times and read a lot on your website about printing I changed my working proces. And it works so much better. Maybe one of the strong new way of thinking is that there are paper/ink/printer combinations that don't work properly together. In stead of trying to let them work together now I accept the fact that it is like it is. So thanks for sharing all your experiences in the way you do.

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks - I'm so glad it's been of real help - thanks or posting this.

@keithmagee4450 Жыл бұрын

I’ve just set up my new Pro 1000 and this and your other videos have been so helpful in understanding the printing process. I’m completely new to digital inkjet printing, which is SO different than my old black and white silver halide darkroom days

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Thanks - my PRO-1000 review predates me making videos by several years, so if you've not seen it, have a look at my very detailed PRO-1000 review? - it has stuff about B&W too www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-pro-1000-printer-review/

@keithmagee4450 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Keith, I have read your review and found it very helpful. I do have a question about using the black and white test image - do I print with the black and white setting or standard?

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

On a pro-1000 I'd print using the B&W print mode. There is a specific section about B&W in the written review @@keithmagee4450

@denisefortier7769 3 жыл бұрын

Sooooo incredibly helpful Keith! I wish I had this article 20 years ago when I was trying to explain to my biggest client (over and over and over again) that his choice of bright commercial orange for his corporate logo was incredibly unfortunate! We had to produce everything from website images of furnishings (all those fabrics and wood grains) to print advertising of groceries with appetizing fruit and vegetables printed on low end flyer paper, and commercial magazine ads. He simply could not understand that the orange logo was NEVER going to print the colour he wanted and expected. We had to use spot colour overprint at a horrendous increase in cost and he simply could not understand why! How I wish I could have had you explain gamut to him! I really appreciate your articles as I transition to enjoying photography and painting for my own satisfaction, and finding that others appreciate what is being created as well.

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks - glad it's of some interest! The problems of printing are one reason we only ever supply RGB images - CMYK is someone else's problem ;-)

@gonzphotographymusicchanne2855 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Keith, this is all you need to know when printing, most tutorial vids just love to complicate things.

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, it's one of those things I always hope will seem 'obvious' when people give it some thought.

@brycekampjes2229 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video, I've just started using test images. It definitely helps to understand what the ICC profile, the paper, and the print settings are doing. One thing I found interesting was comparing all 16 images between a matte and a gloss image, it's interesting to decide which paper would be best for which image and why. One of the next key decisions I need to make is to find a basic set of papers to explore printing with. I've prints with four papers now to compare, none of which I'd choose to continue using, they were just what was in the house when the new printer arrived. It's also interesting to compare relative ICC corrected prints vs non colour managed. I've yet to try printing the test chart in perceptual as that would add too many variables at once. It might be interesting to see a print where each of the 16 images were converted using perceptual individually, but I'm not sure that can be done easily enough. The image definitely shows flaws in the ICC profile very well. The first print I did using it was horrible as the new profile I'd just created was flawed. Another profile, which works well shows flaws in the test print. Sometimes the flaws lead to better prints, then it's a case of figuring out why the happy accident worked and how do recreated it in the right controllable way. Based on my experience I've decided to order a paper sample pack (and three boxes of different value paper spectrum papers), as I'm confident that by being careful I can get one good print of the test image after creating a profile. This should help me figure out what papers are best with the new printer. I've printed occasionally with different technologies to a reasonable level but never used a fully colour managed workflow before. With CRT monitors it was possible to adjust the monitor to "match" the paper well enough then print, and re-edit to adjust based on the print, flat screen monitors don't seem to be as adjustable. The sample pack contains two sheets of each paper type, so that's one for an ICC target, and one for the test image, no room for error. If I was to try to recreate the learning from one print of the test image, I'd need to print over 16 of my own images (as they'd be normal photos not carefully picked to highling printing flaws) many times each refining the print each time on each paper. The last times I've seriously done printing, I solved that problem by only using one paper. The data colour test image is 16 hard test images pre-prepared to print well if everything else is well set up.That's 16 good tests from one piece of paper.

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was of interest. For me, colour management is about getting things 'right first time' more often ;-) Best of luck in your search!

@brycekampjes2229 3 жыл бұрын

Getting it right first time involves knowing your tools and paper. I'm still trying to learn, my decisions are driven to learn and enjoy the process as much as get decent results now. I still need to get a feel for what images look better on a luster, gloss, and matte, the data colour test image is good to accelerate learning that. Thanks.

@gllphoto8399 3 жыл бұрын

That´s what worries me the most, getting the print colours and brightness as close as you get on screen. Thanks for the info!

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks - it can be tricky to 'demote' the importance of the screen in this way, but it also makes it easier to choose which paper matches your vision for the print most effectively.

@wellsyboy 3 ай бұрын

Great stuff Keith but you didn't tell us how to actually make the test print. Obviously I need to use the correct profile but do I make the print using Lightroom, using Epson's own printer interface or using the printer command on my Mac OS?

@KeithCooper 3 ай бұрын

The print is made however you normally print any image. If you use profiles, you use a profile, if you send files off to be printed, you send it off... It has no specific requirements, since it's a test of how your normal print setup is working. Sorry if that wasn't clear...

@wellsyboy 3 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper Thanks Keith

@1825OREO 3 жыл бұрын

Best video for printing. Wish I found you 10 years ago when I was printing a lot. Possible give your viewers some more information on your recommendation on your favor printer/paper combination? Cheers

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks - I've been writing reviews and articles for over 15 years, but only started doing videos last year. All the detail is always in the written articles, which have a wider range of paper info. However, it's difficult to give any firm suggestions, since I get a worldwide audience, so chances are that stuff I look at may not even be available (directly) overseas... See here for some paper info: www.northlight-images.co.uk/choosing-the-best-paper-for-your-photo-prints/ All my print related stuff (videos too) has its own index page: www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/printing-paper-reviews-articles/

@ScottAllshouse Жыл бұрын

Many thanks Keith for your videos and providing a place to find the sample images. I've recently ordered several sample packs of quality papers from Red River. It's my intent to use the provided sample images to help me understand what images (in my mind) would look best on various papers. I've never visited a photo exhibit where I understood anything about the papers. I just know what images I liked. I have a lot of images taken over the past two decades than have never seen print. I'm looking to change that with my Pro-200. During this video you mentioned don't match the print to the screen. Am I correct in attempting a fuzzy match of the screen to the print (using the test images on the sample papers)?

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

The unwanted secret about papers is that apart from major paper categories [lustre, gloss, matte], few people see anything much more than the image itself. Remember that papers are marketed at photographers, not people who will look at the print ;-) Now, with care, it's possible for paper choice to have quite an impact on the look of prints, but it's still the images which count ;-) By comparison I mean don't put the print directly by the screen to look at the two. Put the print [suitably lit] off to one side so that you have to physically turn your head. This 'resets' some aspects of your visual system. The screen and print are different enough that some things will never match

@ScottAllshouse Жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper I really appreciate you highlighting the details of how to view the print offset from the screen. I would have been holding the print next to the screen and now understand this is incorrect. The reminder about the marketing of papers and focusing on the image is helpful too. I think my paper sample pack arriving later this week may last a bit longer than I originally planned. Best wishes to you.

@johnvaleanbaily246 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Keith. I always learn something :)

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks - I must admit that before shooting this I'd forgotten a few things you could test with that image!

@kevins8575 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your expertise

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks - glad it was of interest

@NikCan66 3 жыл бұрын

Always Brilliant content and informative

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for that

@markdavies1019 4 ай бұрын

Many thanks Keith. You have massive amounts of good advice on your channel. I'm taking your advice and firstly printing the Datacolor test sheet on Epson Gloss paper and my new ET-8550 printer through Epson Print Layout (EPL). What I haven't managed to deduce on your channel or website is what settings to use in EPL. Do I use "Printer Manages Color" thereby ignoring any ICC profiles? Thanks.

@KeithCooper 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Use the gloss media setting - this should allow you to select the profile [it may well auto select it] No colour management has no place in EPL unless you are printing B&W and using the ABW print mode. Just open EPL and drop the image into the window and print. You can see the profile settings in the canvas wrap example in the written review [towards the end - click on the image and you can read the settings]

@markdavies1019 4 ай бұрын

@@KeithCooper Many thanks for your help. FYI - I'm choosing ELP Settings - Epson Premium Glossy. This has the effect of choosing "Epson ET-8550 L8180 Series Premium Glossy" profile when the setting is left to "Auto Select". And apologies Keith. I just couldn't find the canvas wrap example you kindly mentioned above. There's so much you've written, I couldn't track it down. Thanks again.

@leftclicky 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Keith. Thanks for all of the videos you make, they are very informative for a novice printer like me. I've recently branched out from Canon paper with my Pixma Pro 200 to the Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl. I was getting B&W prints I was very happy with with the Canon paper, with no colour cast, but as soon as I have tried the Ilford paper, I'm getting a very strong green cast. I print from Lightroom mostly, but have tried with Photoshop and it's even worse there, and I can't seem to access the 'colour management' menu within the print settings on Photoshop to turn off printer colour management to avoid double profiling (since I am using the Ilford ICC profile). Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks

@KeithCooper 2 жыл бұрын

See here www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-pro-200-printer-review/ and especially www.northlight-images.co.uk/black-and-white-printing-with-the-pro-200/ Try the Canon print software as well

@terrynewmanphotography 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome video tutuorials Keith - just got my P900 and trying to remain calm and go slowly - the test print shown in this video is no longer downloadable on your website?

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for letting me know - that link was broken in the recent http->https move. Should be fixed now (page may need refresh)

@terrynewmanphotography 3 жыл бұрын

@@KeithCooper Thanks Keith - working now. I assume I import this into LR and use the paper profile (I've downloaded the ones I need from Fotospeed) to print as-is. I can then compare the prints in my test pack to see which ones I favour.

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Yes - it is printed exactly as you would an image of your own. Can't say about LR though, since I only use PS for printing.

@grahamsaxby4784 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent as always

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks again!

@dunnymonster 3 жыл бұрын

I fell into the trap early of trying to match my prints to my screen. First of all it was a fruitless task because back then I was using my cheapo laptop screen which despite being calibrated just wasn't good enough to evaluate colour. Even though I now use a high quality hardware calibrated Benq like yourself, I've since come to realise that you have to think differently. It would be better if users didn't try to match their prints to their screen but conversely did it the other way round! Ideally you should match your screen to your prints if you want to get remotely close to the two looking similar colour wise. As you describe here however it's never going to be truly possible to match any screen to any print simply because both will have differing gamuts but also of course because one is reflective ( paper ) and one is emissive ( screen ). I also found frustration in lacking understanding early on as to why despite using custom profiles my prints looked different between various paper types. I too assumed that the point of the ICC profile was to bring everything to a single calibrated state and that side by side my prints should look broadly similar irrespective of the paper I used. Again I was wrong, as you explain here, it's just not possible. The purpose of the ICC profile is simply to make the print " the best it can be " based on the paper/ink combination. The ICC profile cannot correct variables beyond the gamut capability of your paper and ink combination, it can only maximise it and give the user at the very least a consistant print result at best. Kudos to you Keith for presenting this often difficult topic in a clear and concise way 👍

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks - that's exactly what I was trying to convey

@PatriciaPearl-t6t Жыл бұрын

very helpful and clear thankyou

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful! - the test images are all on the Northlight Images site

@paololarocca7684 3 жыл бұрын

very helpful, thanks! ...by the way, is this test page suitable also for an a4 printer?

@KeithCooper 3 жыл бұрын

Yes just reduce the size - it's only this big because I have lots of larger paper and also to show up on the videos...

@paololarocca7684 3 жыл бұрын

excellent, thanks!....I am considering to get a canon g550....

@ValdiValdies 5 ай бұрын

4:10 this is what is driving me crazy.. it is green on my prints and I don't understand what causes this. Canon pixma pro 10 with some off brand glossy paper. As far as I understand it's not my monitor because it's downloaded ready to print image.

@KeithCooper 5 ай бұрын

Asked and answered... "some off brand glossy paper"

@MikeJB6 Жыл бұрын

Hello Keith. I printed this very image on my newly acquired Pixma Pro 200 printer today. The paper I used was Pinnacle Premium Lustre 300, and I used the ICC profile for this specific paper & printer as supplied by Paper Spectrum. I did no additional editing/correction. I loaded it into Photoshop "as-is" and then printed it using the paper supplier's specific ICC profile and recommended print settings. The image came out really nice, however, I would have preferred perhaps a small amount of extra exposure. How would I go about editing the profile to "bump up" the exposure a little? I'm presuming that just increasing the exposure in camera Raw just before I print is not really the correct way to go, so I wonder what your advice would be, please? Edit: I assume you have your own created ICC profile for this paper, if so, would that be worth me trying?

@KeithCooper Жыл бұрын

A simple curve with the middle raised slightly is usually enough For profiles, see the main [written] review www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-pro-200-printer-review/

@coconuthair 7 күн бұрын

I am new to printing. I am using an asus laptop computer and was told the 1st thing you need to do is color calibrate your laptop screen. I just bought the epson ET 8550 on your recommendation. I don't understand ICC, Profile etc etc. I thought when you print, You should see is what is what you get? Then I noticed on other on other people's computer my image colors are slightly different. Now I am totally confused. What do I do???

@KeithCooper 7 күн бұрын

First up - read the actual written 8550 review - my videos are supplements... www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-et-8550-printer-review/ See the examples - print a known test image using EPL [yes - all in the written review, along with lots of linked videos] Screens never truly match prints - they are two very different things - once you stop worrying about that and regard the print as a thing in its own right, it takes much of the worry away ;-)