Why Ceres Fauna Graduated and The Future of Hololive

[@Keniisu]

❪ Clarifying a point I made about the push toward an "Idol" direction by the company ❫ My working theory is that while Fauna did love being an Idol as she expressed - I think there's an increased demand by the company to engage in such activities that exceeded expectations of certain talent who joined Hololive, as stated by Laplus in the following clip: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jni8cnatec6Cr7c Given that pressure to engage in events, performances and other 'Idol' activities outside of just streaming and less intense 'Idol' stuff like songs/covers has been expressed to be a problem in the past for other talent, both former and present, I think it's clear this doesn't align with some of the existing talent's desires and expectations.

[@Toucanbird]

@@Keniisu That’s the impression I’m getting from Fauna as well. She claims that she does like doing idol stuff, but I’m venturing to guess in moderation. I don’t think she wants it to become the majority of her content, especially when she excels more in ASMR, roleplay and Let’s Play content. I’ve made this remark on some other videos, but I personally don’t understand why they are trying to make ALL of their talents idols. To me, it would make sense to diversify their content and have a portion of their talents do more idol work and a portion of the talent continue general live-streaming content. For starters, it doesn’t make sense to make your talents that are less talented at singing and dancing do that more than what they hired them for. It ESPECIALLY doesn’t make sense considering how many talents they have in Hololive now. Just on the English side alone, they’ve added some really talented performers in Elizabeth Rose Bloodflame, Nerissa Ravencroft and Fuwamoco, who all are more musically inclined than the likes of Fauna, Ina or Ame. Clearly when it comes to the leaving talents like A-Chan (edited so “somebody” in this comments section can calm the fuck down), Ame and Fauna, they aren’t idols. That’s not why they joined Hololive. Ofc, I’m not saying they can’t sing or dance, but you can clearly tell that’s not their areas of strength like it is with Calli, Suisei, Kiara, Kobo, etc. They probably enjoy doing things like the anniversary concerts or birthday karaoke streams, but they probably don’t want to constantly fly to Japan or LA or NY to do concerts, that pulls them away from their desired content creation. IMHO (and probably many others as well), Hololive’s current Idol strategy is a recipe for disaster. While I get idol content is a bigger revenue generator than live-streaming, what isn’t a revenue generator is their talents leaving en masse and if the company continues to focus way more on idol content, they are going to have less of a talent pool to pull from when bringing in new waves.

[@うっちゃんだ]

​​​@@Toucanbird (EDIT: "Somebody" had to be passive-aggressive instead of owning up the mistake instead of apologizing and owning up, we're gonna go the drama queen route even though i am not mad?) you almost had me then you said aqua isn't an idol....she IS and WAS an idol thru and thru bro. even in her new self she advertises herself as an idol. There are wild theories as to WHY she left, no one knows unless you have insider knowledge, or else then it's just hoopla. The thing that i found as a better assumption about aqua's case is someone said that even getting to start a sololive has become a hassle, that's more grounded of an assumption that i've seen someone make than most do. A lot of people including you just say as if aqua is not an idol, that's just self reporting you don't know her or only knew her when she graduated. Her idol footprints are literally in her wikipedia...it's fine to have opinions on the direction of the agency BUT please leave it as an opinion that CAN change if things get better and NOT go at it in just one narrow sight i'm not saying to clap your hands for the agency i am asking to be open so being skeptical is fine but don't count them out yet as doomed or it's over.

[@christopherpage2622]

@@Keniisu advent and now justice certainly were told what things they'd be doing in the future due to bijou saying that she was focused on streaming as many games as possible her first year and that now she has moved to Japan so to remove the travel aspect to make things easier for her for the studio work she will be doing.

[@Toucanbird]

@@うっちゃんだ Oh Lord help me, I accidentally put Aqua instead of A-Chan (who yes, I’m aware worked on the management side of things who commonly appeared in collabs, but still include because she was a frequent enough presence to be an identifiable figure) on the list of departures that weren’t idols on two hours of sleep and suddenly it’s “your opinion is completely invalid, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about! God have mercy on your soul for how stupid you are! Die a thousand deaths!” (Yes, I’m aware you didn’t actually say these things. I figured since you did a pretty bang-up job of putting words in my mouth, I’d return the favor). Dude, you sound completely unhinged. Accidentally having one name on there doesn’t completely refute my point. What about Ame? What about Fauna? Funny, you’re complete crickets when it comes to those two. You hyper fixating on Aqua does nothing to add to the conversation, so maybe instead of throwing me under the bus for having a sleep-deprived Freudian slip, you actually bring something of substance to the conversation? You even flat out said that you agreed with my opinion until I said Aqua. I’ll go back and edit that comment if that helps you get some sleep at night (Lord knows I sure needed to get a siesta in). Also, dude, opinions are all we have at this point when it comes to this conversation. Everyone who left or is leaving have made nothing but blanket statements as to the reasons they left. Creative differences and disagreement with management are statements that are incredibly vague and that could mean a myriad of different things. Unless some of them come out later and go into greater detail as to why they left, which could end up being a while considering the graduating talents likely signed NDAs, then all we can do is theorize as to why they’re leaving and considering the direction the company has been going in over the last year, it’s really not that hard to do. You make it sound like I’m making this grand sweeping accusation that Hololive is burning out their talents by making them idols when all I said was I don’t understand WHY they would try to make all of their Vtubers do more idol work when that is not their primary skill set or desired direction of their content. Also, also, I’m not an influencer. I’m just some guy on the Internet with an opinion. The things I say in this comments section aren’t going to amount to anything when it comes to shaping people’s opinions on the industry. People are going to have their own impressions or opinions no matter what I say.

[@user-kj5dj1wm1d]

@@Toucanbird AYO! A-chan "left" more like retired and she retired with a reason, her family needed her. She already was on hiatus for 3-4 whole months after her february stream and it just came down to she announced her retirement to be with her family i do not know why is A-chan lumped in with talents ofc she's not an idol, she's a damn staff lol

[@thatanimegirlwiththecape4807]

This graduation feels wrong compared to the rest. Its forced, sudden, and you can hear it in faunas voice that she wanted to stay. Be a part of it and continue doing big things. It feels like she leaves because something bad happened, and not because its time. There was so much more she could offer in the company and so much feels unfinished. This shouldnt happen. I feel it in my heart 😭

[@synceno821]

ame decided to quit long ago, aqua got tired of idol activities then chloe's health and the little mix of everything. then fauna on other hand actually enjoyed the idol activities so the reason must be different.

[@thatanimegirlwiththecape4807]

@synceno821 yeah and she was half crying saying she wanted to stay and just the way she just bluntly says "disagreement with management". If they did something to her i wont forgive them. I know there is a possibility for it to not be a big deal. But for a whole ass graduation to happen so suddenly and fauna being so broken and let down... idk man...

[@menowski]

@@synceno821 Enjoying idol activities does not mean she is willing to go to Japan a few times a year and also stream less and less due to other, constantly increasing responsibilities. Hololive was streaming first-idol second company, but starting this year and going forward, it is the other way around, shifting more and more to other direction. And many people that joined Hololive 2 years ago+ did not sign up for that. Now we will see the consequences of that. Also have in mind, that recently there were instances that some projects of some talents have been recently rejected/avoided to help (like in Regis case), and others have been ignored/refused to help (like in Kroniis case with gaming licences). Hololive is changing in a way some talents will not agree/tolerate with and will leave. It looks like recent events are only the beginning and sadly will be a constant thing in 2025

[@hanabal898]

Investors is the problem its simple.... the more they invest in cover as well, the more power they will have over yagoo as well. the future will be up to what the investors want not yagoo

[@amanawolf9166]

@@hanabal898 If I remember this right, there's one investor group that makes me puke. If BR did invest in Cover, they are pulling serious strings as they don't mess around with money.

[@ShadowFox10587O]

You can hear in her voice she's upset about it. Obviously she isn't going to reveal what happened behind the scenes but where there's smoke there's fire. I don't think hololive will collapse or anything but its probably not going to be the same hololive in 5 years.

[@blackwatertv7018]

It’s a part of the being a professional sometimes you get managers, which are just simply awful and sometimes people simply just decide to quit/resign . She doesn’t strike me as someone to go full scorched earth like Doki did (and she was right to do it)

[@ShadowFox10587O]

@blackwatertv7018 Oh I don't blame her for not talking about it she's being professional. They had a disagreement and couldn't work it out so she left. Understandable that happens all the time. The thing it isn't just fauna alot of them are leaving and others have talked about how frustrating they can be on the back end. We'll probably never know the full story but it seems like hololive isn't a fun company to work with.

[@mattex2655]

@@ShadowFox10587O Having fun in a company, it will never always be like this unfortunately, life is like this, as with every job that exists. It is frustrating but defining the environment in a certain way is difficult, we will never know anything about what goes on behind the scenes

[@ShadowFox10587O]

@@mattex2655 I don't mean having fun as in a party everyday. I mean if it becomes such a bad work environment that it becomes a revolving door because everyone keeps leaving that's bad for the company in the long run. Especially for a company like Hololive that is driven mostly by individual personalities.

[@TheFrev]

"I don't think hololive will collapse or anything" ... I thought the same thing about Nijisanji En. The reality is, if fans become disillusioned with the company, and the original talents back away, people will hate the company, want their oshis to be free, and want the company to fail. Maybe the JP side will continue, but us fans will rather follow the talents, not the company. It is why I watch Dooby, Mint and Dokibird. Bad management will kill a company like this. Personally, I think having too many of your big talents leave, but continue to stream is opening the door for them to form an idol company owned by themselves. They may end up making their own competition.

[@x0mbi3z]

Its terrible we are loosing Fauna, she is an absolute diamond. However we arent loosing the person behind her, and will meet her again, real soon.

[@OK-zo3cq]

Well you know the saying goes: when life gives you lemon, you make leaf. Wait.... Lemon.... Leaf.... Lemon leaf.... Hmmmm

[@Oh_God_not_him_again]

It may be Faunover, but she will not be Leafing us.

[@yurimaldonado4966]

@@OK-zo3cq Thank you, you're a hero. For no reason at all... You know... ; )

[@biggreen1456]

Gonna be that guy and break “the rule”. Her old persona was Lemonleaf and she seems like she will be going back to that

[@Pudding404]

This seems to just be a thing with vtubers companies genetally. Hololive may be the big company when it comes to vtubing, but we still see dysfunction seeping through the cracks.

[@ferociousmana]

@@Pudding404 genetally 😭😭

[@erumesu]

Kiara's members-only stream from today debunks the speculation in this video. I recommend checking it out. In summary, she said the graduations aren't connected, and they're not tied to any specific change within Cover. It has nothing to do with Cover going public or Hololive becoming more idol-focused. Nothing has fundamentally changed, the idol activities are optional, the members can opt out from concerts if they want, even from fes. It's just that management isn't perfect and never was, there's friction all the time, like in any company. Kiara herself has a lot of problems with management. And this friction is very personal for each talent, it depends on their goals, their dislikes, and how they interact with management. So, while some talents find things perfectly fine, for others the frustrations build up over time, until they reach the point where the cons outweight the pros and decided to leave. Finally Kiara said that despite her frustrations, she stills likes Hololive and wants to see it succeed.

[@brianwalsh1339]

Good on Kiara for doing that, wish it wasnt in a member’s only stream

[@deckyfx2188]

​@@erumesu and La+ public stream debunked that debunk, La+ stated that she understand why Chloe graduated and one of the reasons was because Hololive get bigger and bigger and the tallent is required to go to office more often, doing more various acticities other than stream and taking lessons.

[@fredrickordo5828]

@@erumesu I mean sure friction happens and people screw up, however having 4 talents walk in fairly short order is rather concerning. This is also on top of Ina being on hiatus the rest of the year because management screwed up her visa process. Just as an outsider looking in, it looks like management has a big competency problem at the moment. If they don’t figure it out, this problem is going to get worse.

[@erumesu]

@@deckyfx2188 That's not accurate. Laplus said that before joining Hololive she thought the job would be easier, but after joining she realized it was a lot more work than she expected. She didn't say anything about the amount of work changing recently. If anything, she mentioned that the opportunities to do concerts are fewer than before (probably referring to the fact that they only get one 3D live per year now, instead of two)

[@ohwell9937]

this is the reason why I was so skeptical with what people are saying about causing the graduations, saying it's because "cover is gearing towards becoming an idol company" something like that... maybe from the talk pekora made about the change in direction that the company is going to, and aqua's reasoning of graduation saying that she disagrees to said direction... and then ame who ceased her activities but became an affiliate kinda solidified that theory, because you know, people thought ame didn't like the idol activities, even though she didn't said anything like that or about the direction cover is going being her reason for stopping her activities... but none of them said, specifically that the company is going to become idol centric... if Kiara of all people is defending hololive still, then I'm gonna stick with hololive a bit longer... But of course, people will still just go with that narrative because you know, it's the only logical conclusion to them... even though there are many freaking them reasons to be made, and each member probably even have their own different reasons for leaving hololive... edit: In my mind the problem in management has gotten worse... and they are starting to power trip their talents... if Cover doesn't do something about it, they'll end up becoming like the other company... they need to restructure and probably fire people that are causing trouble within the management...

[@bishopwerst]

to be fair, Fauna said it wasn't because of the idol stuff, it was disagreement with management.

[@iTrollerNoob]

Which she followed immediately with, "I love streaming", which everyone always leaves out. It's definitely something about pushing for more idol activities as opposed to mainly streaming, which she prefers to do more of.

[@bishopwerst]

@ which she also said “I love being an idol”. Look I’m hurt too. And I agree the idol thing is the main thing that pushed ame, chloe, and aqua away. But let’s not manipulate faunas words just to fit an agenda. I’m pissed too that fauna is leaving. She is my kamioshi.

[@ToasterDsG]

​​@@bishopwersttheres a MASSIVE difference between enjoying idol activities to actually living the idol lifestyle, which includes the micromanagement of your life in order to protect the brand from any potential harm that can be done to it. This happens in most big corporations, but this is particularly worse in the asian entertainment industry. THE PUSH into a more idol direction plus new management (most of whom come directly FROM the idol industry), is gonna lead to creative disagreements between talents and corporate. You have suits telling creatives how to be creative; and thats always a recipe for disaster. So yes, unfortunately it IS due to the more Idol direction cover is going; even if we don't want to believe it or admit it .

[@bishopwerst]

@ yes agreed. But let’s not manipulate faunas words. That’s what’s pissing me off about all this from fans on top of covers stupid management.

[@bennydelon]

@@bishopwerst Aqua and Chloe were some of the most music-focused members, the idea that they left because they didn't want to sing and dance is ridiculous.

[@oreki22]

It's interesting how this last year has really shifted my views on graduation. Yes, it's still sad. But seeing so many vtubers become indie while retaining their audience with more freedoms (Doki, Mint, Dooby etc.) kinda makes me happy to see what they'll do with that new freedom from a company

[@LichCrypt]

I don't even think the idol direction is the problem since Fauna herself said she wanted to continue being an idol. She gave us her reason: problems with management. That's what we should demand answers about. What's going on with management? Multiple talents have left this year and more have complained about them.

[@Keniisu]

My working theory is that while she loved being an Idol, I think there's an increased demand by the management in the company to engage in such activities, to the point where it exceeded expectations. The pressure to engage in events, songs and other 'Idol' activities outside of just streaming and standard 'Idol' stuff has been something expressed to be a problem in the past by other talent, both former and present.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

If we can compile what we know have been the Talents gripes with Management caused issues... Altare literally chewed the sheer lack of support Holostars, especially the EN side, yet them HAVING to keep obeying the company's strict demands. He had to fix the mocap harware himself after FOUR MONTHS of it collecting dust in the JP HQ. Ina's Visa issues (Likely part of the problem was Hololive fucking with the documents they needed to give her so the Visa renewal for Work could be done, dunno how else Hololive would be the ones to blame for her Visa issues). Kiara periodically complaining about the slips or outright problems with Management. Gura and numerous other talents complaints of their project ideas being shut down and any where money was already spent, no reimbursements. Marine speaking how stricter Management has been getting, causing her main schtick to being more and more limited, and projects being denied of course. Pekora being sad at how Hololive shifted heavily into a direction she disagrees with, but it hasn't gotten to the point of a dealbreaker. Laplus telling how the workload got super intense in recent times, and while she is ok doing so, she agrees it is going to be a dealbreaker for others in Holo. Iroha had a voice loss due to stress, due to the intense routine she was having to do. The problems are piling up, my guess is we will see a totally diferent Hololive once the older, more stream focused or those not as into sacrificing stream time for Idol content, leave. Hololive will honestly likely turn what Yagoo envisioned at the start, like an AKB48, Idols, with a very small dose of stream on the side.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

@@andrehashimoto8056 In the last gens of HoloEN there are people closer to their '30s than their '20s that had NO experience in singing and/or dancing AT ALL before joining Hololive. Had they really wanted to focus on the idol stuff, they would have searched for other figures.

[@taylorchesser8990]

Assuming that the problem is investors pushing for less streaming and more idol activities, what they fail to realize is that the streaming side builds interest in said idol activities. It creates a community, it makes the idol a person. You can't just debut a new set of idols every six months with "this is your new favorite character, buy their merch." Of course, the same could be said of pretty much any investor or executive that pushes for immediate gains without respecting the how or why.

[@aimanhafiz4621]

Yeah feel sad for fan one time okey second and third nah fan will upset😢

[@codegmeister]

Imo, it's all about compatibility with management. My wife is currently having big issue with her manager due to misunderstanding and heavy workload. There are a lot of factors that go into working within a team. I would like to emphasize that it might not be Yagoo's fault at all. Language barrier can also be a huge issue sometime especially in professional work. In fact, there might even be no actual problem within Cover including the talent herself, Fauna. Misunderstanding can be really bad sometime that it can cause anyone to feel the 'friction' that Kiara has mentioned on replying this video.

[@codegmeister]

what i meant to say is, us viewers are only seeing Fauna and not the whole team related to Fauna. One toxic person is enough to bring the whole thing down. And that one toxic person can even be oblivious to his/her toxicity because of lack of communication ability especially in multi-language team. Humans are unpredictable.

[@kaiselplay4681]

This is true after all no one knows who is fauna in IRL(in real life) but for me one thing fauna disagreement of management is constant trips which she said really hate it.

[@MrHidePatten]

If they continue in this direction I could see Mumei following suit. She’s shared previously that she doesn’t intended to live in Japan and be close to the studio due to her pets. But I suppose if she did leave she could casually collab with another bird, one that makes your heart go doki doki…

[@stehouse]

@@MrHidePatten ame, doki, mumei and mint collab. Sounds like a dream

[@rvpairofdicethewanderer2383]

Ever since Mumei revealed to us that she's currently a Law Student, I knew that she may not last long in Hololive. Law and Medicine Colleges take the life our of you as much as corpo jobs and we have seen many Streams where Mumei is too mentally battered to think, which is the main cause of her clumsiness in Collabs and Games.

[@ramondelgado4927]

Honestly , with Fauna gone , Mumei is soon to follow (she has always been sort of a nomad from what she has spoken , moving around , never quite settling and disliking being static) , and after 3 of the OG council left , Kronii who is not really that inclined into music could probably follow not long after , Irys and Bae are commited into the Idol dream (music / dancing career) so no problem there , Advent and Justice are also commited with very strong singers (rissa and liz ) and good performers (cece , shiori , the twins) but have some weak points (GiGi , Biboo , Raora) who are very much not inline with the Idol/music path , the only one in doubt from Myth would be Ina who likes idol stuff so far but did said that she almost graduated due to some "internal issues" but stepback fromt he ledge due to the girls encouragement and support , meanwhile Calli , Wawa and Goobs are very much musically inclined in their activities and goals ID is in serious trouble tho , i dont follow them much outside collabs and clips , but from what i know , aside from Rissu and Moona , everyone else is basically 100% a streamer with little to no idol/music tendency , hope im wrong tho

[@sulphuric_glue4468]

I am absolutely certain that Promise is a dead group walking after this announcement. I will be extremely surprised if Mumei doesn't announce her graduation at some point in 2025 and then Kronii is obviously going to follow suit, she's been open about her frustrations with management before and I think it'd take a lot to convince her to stay with most of her genmates gone. Bae and Irys are both fully committed and will probably stay with hololive until their actual permanent retirement, but I doubt cover will maintain the premise of them being the promise group when there's only two of them.

[@fish-kt4iq]

​@@ramondelgado4927don't forget the ID hostage situation that they got held up in Japan for months because management fucked up

[@FoxYinnyy]

I recently checked the website of Hololive and the vibe that I got from it was that they were actually looking for potential idols rather than having streamers who have a knack for that and being entertaining. It kinda felt a bit weird to me since I always felt like that was not really the main focus for a lot of VTubers? I am quite new to VTubers but I always kinda felt like they just like to create a community without having to keep pushing themselves to do things they don't want to do. And also mostly being streamers without having to put their identity public. So hearing that bigger corpos are doing things is not surprising to me, but it's always saddening for sure.

[@rantafor4377]

they were always this way it's just that many people who joined from the EN side didn't quite realize that and just thought that Hololive was like English vtubing just with a couple more restrictions in exchange for more exposure.

[@Timmothy_plays]

The curious thing about Fauna's graduation is that she said that she loves streaming and she loves the idol work, so the question is, what could the disagreement with management be about? Honestly it's like as if they gave her the option of graduation or termination, because again it must be repeated, but Fauna actually loved being an Idol!

[@Keniisu]

My working theory is that while she loved being an Idol, I think there's an increased demand by the company to engage in such activities that exceeded expectations. The pressure to engage in events, songs and other 'Idol' activities outside of just streaming and standard 'Idol' stuff has been something expressed to be a problem in the past by other talent, both former and present.

[@sulphuric_glue4468]

@@SaxonBlue2 And compelling them all to move to Japan means they get to treat the employees under the labour laws and work culture of Japan rather than the US or Australia.

[@janah6473]

Its honestly shocking how noone gets this. Its money, obviously.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

@@sulphuric_glue4468 Biboo stated the staff tried to DISCOURAGE her to move to Japan.

[@neutronalchemist3241]

About the way of doing such things. Many seem to like the theory of Cover "forcing" the talents in doing stuff, because yes, it's the easiest way to be mad at them, to figure them as slavers who whip the beloved talents. But reality is that, like in any workplace, the frustration more probably comes from other things that "too much work". Talents are creative people, but Cover is now a big company, and big companies tend to be bureaucratic, and bureaucracies don't cope well with new ideas or anything that diverges from existing paths. Altare talked about how he had to fix his mocap hardware himself after FOUR MONTHS of it collecting dust in the JP HQ. How could that happen? Because in Hololive HQ it was NONE's task to fix his mocap. Anyone already had his job, and it was not that one. That's how a bureaucracy works. Kiara's recount of her first IRL meeting with Raora somewhat obscured the fact that she was about to cry while leaving a meeting with the staff. People don't cry for the excessive workload. More likely cry because a project they cared about and spent time on had been trashed, and stuff like that.

[@pleaseclap7890]

I think part of it is also just that Hololive is hitting that phase in a company’s life cycle where a lot of the early members start wanting to explore other job opportunities. Like if you just view this the way you would any other job, working for 3-4 years at the same company with the same job is a pretty good run and you don’t really need some big reason to wanna explore other opportunities.

[@KalloSkull]

Well, Fauna and Chloe weren't really early members, and at least Fauna very clearly stated she didn't want to leave. Ame had been around a bit longer, but clearly she didn't want to move on from streaming either since she's now streaming more than in Hololive. Really Aqua is the only graduation from an actually long-time member, and even she returned immediately under a different persona. I think that's what's most worrying about this. These graduations aren't limited to just early or newer members, or just EN or JP talent. It's everyone. None of whom actually wanted to stop streaming, just that they wanted to or were forced to stop streaming under Hololive. Fauna was the most blunt one, but the others implied similar reasons in roundabout ways. I think there are also other talents hanging on in the company by a thread, such as Gura, Mumei and Ina.

[@rantafor4377]

Exactly, Americans tend not to stick at one job for long periods of time like Japanese do.

[@MysteriousFuture]

@@rantafor4377 we don’t see loyalty to a company being rewarded as it was decades ago and tend to be more pragmatic than Japanese are when it comes to career advancement

[@pocketiland3214]

In a ideal world you invest into a company because you actually know the company and love what they do and so you invest to make them better, not to push your ideals onto the company. *COugh* not just cover corp

[@Amishuhani]

That's simply the result of capitalism. Most of the time, only the people who care about money/profit before anything else has the wealth power to buy the company share. And the company that is focusing on their ideology just won't be able to compete anymore at some point, because the lack of funds is holding back their growth.

[@bludragon77]

I hope fauna goes solo she has so much talent. you can tell she wants to,keep being a v tuber. and if not thanks for the smiles, laughs and memories. But agian it always comes down to management and if your being mismanage then it’s time to leave.

[@SKaede]

When the company grow too big it stopped being a family and starts to see you as a number. While i can't expect all the talents to keep streaming until they're 60s I also don't have the heart to deal with all the sudden parting. This really scares the fans from investing in their oshi for the long run.

[@BDK86]

Going public with the company im sure wasnt the best idea, but perhaps yagoo had no choice to keep the business going.

[@mattex2655]

Yagoo had no choice, public or Yagoo would be gone and Hololive would be even worse

[@Kirivera]

The sad truth of this world.

[@janarcangel49]

It has been mentioned that Yagoo was backed into a corner, choosing either, sell the company or go public. He chose the latter.

[@solitarycrow]

Fauna really didn't deserve this. You could tell she did not want this. As parasocial as this sounds, she is my favorite personality wise. She just seems to be genuinely kind and understanding both as an idol and as a real human being irl.

[@janah6473]

You.. you dont know her LOL

[@---bs9bi]

Yeah sorry boss, you don't know how she is irl, it's an act, you can enjoy it as an act, but don't convince yourself it isn't one

[@francisco9455]

@@---bs9bi care to tell me what happened?

[@---bs9bi]

@francisco9455 idk mu comment was in general, it seemed like it wasn't an amicable separation

[@ppmv4285]

If I may speculate, I imagine it might be because of idol culture, but not necessarily being an idol. When HoloEN for debuted, it was during the pandemic, so concerts and whatnot were limited. So I'd ve willing to bet that people who auditioned for Gen 2 wanted something more akin to that at the start. Now since things have been opening up more, Hololive has wasted no time into delving into idol culture, but I think with things such as the recent Camilla scare where someone put a tag on a gift for her and used a sledgehammer to break into her house, Cover might be trying to implement more of the idol lifestyle onto them. They'll say it's "for her protection" and while they might mean that, it's more in line with a brand protection and that's where a potential disagreement might have come from. I also think potentially that Fauna might have seen how successful Dooby was after going indie and might try to follow in her footsteps.

[@rign_]

Investors can indeed gives and inject funds to Hololive, sadly as it's still a double edge sword where the investor itself can become snakes. I hope Fauna become much more happier and more successful in the future.

[@ragnid]

@@rign_ ikr! Yup

[@meisterl0]

I know she'll come back but what I'll miss the most with these Graduations is the model itself, will be left in the dust so is the sapling brand and the Holo interactions that we don't get to see on screen😢

[@pforgottonsoul]

i think going too far into the idol direction would be detrimental(atleast to the EN side) not only are a lot of fans not really into the idol stuff a lot of the talents themselves are better as streamers as well.

[@gehtdichnixan9005]

I read that this might be because talents hired during *that time* (you know which one) got the wrong impression on what this job entails. Now that everything is back to normal, idol activities are ramping up again and talents, who had the impression that this is mostly streaming with idol activities on the side, are starting to leave because of this.

[@pforgottonsoul]

@@gehtdichnixan9005 i feel that can be part of it but i think it goes deeper than that since expectations are made pretty plain during auditions.

[@Hogminn]

I used to think this too, but Fauna explicitly mentioned how she enjoyed the idol activities, so.

[@JustinT2]

Its obvious they aren't doing that with the EN side, unless they are planning on doing an opera with Nerissa, ERB, and Cece playing violin, (That would be fucking awesome btw) the only "idol like" talents they have hired have been fuwamoco.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

Management issues can be many things. But most likely the ramping of the Idol reps (Choreography, Dancing, Singing, tons of training routines), mass commercialization on Deals which likely require by law the Talent's physical presence during talks and signing the deal, and how generally they are clearly steering more and more towards more "safe", "stable", "run of the mill" for Stteaming or Idol content to try maximizing the reach of all of them (Aka the delusional thing beancounters love to pursue, the "Wider Audience", which for 99% of everyone sane, nowadays means the dregs that crap like Soyny's Concord target as an Audience). Fauna's disagreement might been one of these being pushed by Management. Or it could have been something not as company wide that she could agree with nor work in a company housing such issue.

[@Laksul]

Honestly I'm not that sad about the graduation itself, kind of. Worried about Holo's future? Absolutely. But I knew her PL before this and honestly had suspicions the moment I saw her post on it like 12 days before the announcement. The main reason I'm sad about this graduation or any for that matter is the fact that we probably won't be seeing much interaction between member's new/past lives. Or at least, not on the same scale (I'll miss the KroFauMei and SNOT collabs...) Especially since I'm sure some of them will be staying with Hololive. In the end, am I sad that Fauna probably won't be interacting much on stream with other members both graduated and not? Yes. Am I sad that she's graduating from a company she feels is going a direction that doesn't fit her? Absolutely not. I guess on the bright side Sana and Fauna can collab again if we're lucky?

[@AzureIV]

This started happening since Hololive went public. The main thing Hololive fans should be looking towards is Shirakami Fubuki. She said that if Hololive becomes a bad company that she can't believe in anymore, that she will leave. If Fubuki leaves, I think Hololive is going to take a huge dive in public perception.

[@kephalai]

this is flawed thinking because if your oshi doesn't align with fubuki and micomet then your oshi is as good as dead. fubuki is great but her interests and mindset does not align with every vtuber in hololive...

[@htetmgmg4492]

@@kephalai idk what you're talking about. It's mainly about company becoming black and abusing their talents. Talent interests not aligning with fubuki ain't the issue with hololive. It's just individual preferences

[@RobertStoll]

Both Altere and Gura have had issues going on as well. There's for sure something going on. The thing is these talents, especially from well known agencies, stand the best chance without an agency. Hell some were already doing it without an agency before joining them.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

For established names. Perhaps they wanted to restart without their past luggage bogging down the new content, but the investmwnt to restart wasn't worth, but a Corpo shouldering that brunt of initial costs made it worth. Until it stopped being worth it. For Gura, it is clear she isn't happy at all with the direction things are going, since it is likely what's making Management block her projects that hard (and if the Reinbursement thing is true, then they are doing a Niji tier BS and she's having to cough some dought before it gets shot down, making those expenses infuriaring to keep happening). Hololive is likely spending A SHIT TON in benefits and sweeteners so she doesn't go ham and publicly tell everyone she is leaving Hololive. She leaves, Holo EN vessel will have been hit by their Selen/Doki Cruiser Missile, one with pointy sharp teeth, and an even bigger payload of a fanbase eager for marching orders.

[@ToasterDsG]

@@andrehashimoto8056 Shit dude, you even have people like Marine starting to get really jaded with management too; if shit really hits the fan she could bail too, especially after her deal with UMJ ends. And Marine might even be a more brutal loss, since shes huge domestically.

[@rantafor4377]

It doesn't help that Gura has always had problems when it comes to maintaining motivation even before joining Hololive.

[@periodicdragonflare5572]

I could understand the investor’s perspective of going into full idol mode because in English the only idol’s we have are probably Kpop so they’re tapping into that resource. But they need to realize that’s a completely different story. Hololive isn’t built on “here’s a perfect person with the best looking hair and best sounding voice” It’s built on personality. As much as I hate to admit it, Vtubing is reliant on a parasocial relationship. Can’t have that when a person is hiding behind an avatar. Sure there’s Miku, Sure there’s Kasuna ai, but they have fan’s. Vtuber’s and fans in general like the personality, like their voice, their little antics. Not some corporate smiling, but some emotion.

[@Kirivera]

That's why I love Hololive. They were already idols in my eyes, but... It's like they also had this more human side to them that we got to see when they played video games. It's a huge shame that they want to move away from that... But maybe they just want more singing and dancing, and not necessarily less gaming streams? I don't know.

[@arttizkappa2588]

The core of vtuber industry is the talent themselves

[@periodicdragonflare5572]

There's nothing wrong with singing and dancing but its the funding and stress. Unless its a collaboration most talents pay for songs out of pocket so either . A: Talents are forced to make more song's and pay for it themselves like an idol (Kpop albums usually have 60 songs, most of it is individual) . B: force Hololive to pay for more song's which leave's the talent in the position to be overworked and stressed while also removing pocket money from hololive making a chance to have the talent's be underappreciated/ unsupported (mental health, managers, understaffing) . worst case scenario, they end up like nijisanji, best case scenerio they end up like Kpop idols and the older generation's slowly get replaced like Regloss whose main purpose is to perform. Im just worried about how much time a streamer would have with their audience in the future and if they could balance that with their "work" of being an idol.

[@Kirivera]

@@periodicdragonflare5572 Doesn't it seem like the women are getting pushed as it is? That definitely seems like it would result in less streams, since there'll be a lot more work to do behind the scenes. And a girl not streaming equals a girl not making the company money.

[@periodicdragonflare5572]

@@Kirivera yea exactly which goes back to my point of whose going to pay financially and mentally for this shift in the company. We as fan's (me as an Ayame fan) are getting less and less streaming hours, sometimes 2 times a month. I just really hope that they're not pushing these women too far and or atleast paying them enough. . There's been a commotion regarding hololive not paying artists, artists that make titles and or song lyrics. So why is there a lack of funding and why isn't management ontop of their resources. . Requirement for hololive is to sing and perform and often times like Takanashi Kiara, she outsources lyrics, mv artists and actual music itself to other people all paid out of her pocket's. Im worried that the reason these people quit is because they would be forced to commision help for music costing tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket.

[@khl2445]

lemonleaf at 240k gj boys

[@FoxSupremaczy]

It’s sad to see the hololive that we knew slowly fades away 😢

[@terratenientesalgo2511]

i just wish the talents could take their models with them no matter where they are working.

[@theactualparadox]

I’d like to imagine that things started changing in ways that Fauna just decided to pull a girlboss and start her own thing. She made it very clear that she did not want to leave because of anything else other than management and made it seem like she’d be reborn very soon

[@Kirivera]

We'll follow her with whatever she does next. Hololive was just a great way for her to gain experience and develop skills, and also a stepping stone to get her name out there. And now, like Watson and Coco, she has a built-in fanbase who will follow her for her.

[@coyoteink]

Theres stuff people dont think off, like travel to japan. Maybe its free, or not but imagine how stressful the constant travel is when you just want to chill. Plus you gotta learn a new language even as a en talent, theres learning to dance and singing lessons, the amount of time these women find to do all this is amazing. Then theres the corporate aspect, the cooperation a certain vampire orc told me is very Japanese ran, the management is paid peanuts, they have no investment to see you succeed, like no raises no percentage’s but they still get in shit if you f-up, so they want you to tow tge line and not do anything to get them or the company in trouble. They stifle creativity and don't get its your creativity that brought you here.

[@christianeugenio818]

yagoo protect your talents please

[@Kirivera]

He must be torn on that. He has a ton of employees who depend on him, too. But I also understand that it's the talents who are the real magic that makes it all happen.

[@АннаЗинурова]

With only ~30% of Cover Copr. stocks owning, he can't do shit.

[@ddddirge]

On the EN side I have a feeling that most of pre-Advent members gonna leave by the end of next year, with only CHaDs and Kiara gonna stay On the JP side although it's gonna be rarer but I think they're not safe either especially the non DEV_IS ones Advent and Justice totally joined when they're probably already know about the new directions, same for DEV_IS so they're probably gonna at least stay for another year

[@OodldoodlNoodlesocks]

I'd be surprised if Kiara stays given everything she's said as her hololive character and on her own personal channel lately. Gura and Ina I would not be surprised to see graduate and I suspect Calli doesn't really need hololive.

[@repetitivefunction]

hard disagree. if nothing else, hololive is still a viable place to grow. For people whose passions align with holo's trajectory, being a part of something like this means fulfilling your dreams. the tragedy is the dreams that get crushed along the way. It seems like if you aren't looking to grow in the 'right ways', you get boxed in and are basically forced to stagnate if that makes any sense. Ina and Kiara i think are two that are still benefiting. Bae and irys as well. but i wouldn't be too surprised if shiori and biboo go, but i do not know them past a surface level, i don't watch them much so i can't say. Gigi and ceci as well, i feel like they came for the streaming and the atmosphere not for the idol culture. Maybe i'm doomposting.. i really really hope cover realizes soon that well over half of their en talents are here for the community and streaming. idk i'm sad.

[@arttizkappa2588]

⁠@@repetitivefunctionnah company rep is go down the hill people are not stupid they gonna realize hololive that they love will not be the same anymore

[@fish-kt4iq]

​@@SaxonBlue2ina almost quit btw

[@Sansnessundertale]

Now I have not really been watching hololive in general these past few months, but i too think that they lean more towards idols and keeping investors. Which depending on the hololive girl, they want to stream and have fun more than doing that, and that’s probably why we have all of these graduations.

[@Fxrrxt2x]

I'm not even that sad with the news about Fauna. I learned from Coco, Ame and Salen that they'll be fine, and that I can just follow whatever they do next. But I bet Yagoo must be feeling really torn. On one hand, he deeply cares about all the talents, I know he does, but on the other hand, he must do whatever it takes for the survival of the company, and he needs those investors. I wouldn't want to be in that position....

[@Kirivera]

@@Fxrrxt2x What I find to actually miss is the collabs. The girls always have such great chemistry together, and it's a shame that all just vanishes. I have a feeling that Gura's time is almost up, but I also think she'll be happier independent, and it'll be nice to see whatever form she takes on next being able to hang out with Ame, or Dooby, again.

[@fushiro1589]

@@Kirivera she definitely waiting for her contract to expire

[@janarcangel49]

​​@@KiriveraSee, when it comes to Gura, she's actually the opposite. She's burnt out with streaming but digs the idol side/promotions outside of it. So, I doubt she's on her way out.

[@Kirivera]

@@janarcangel49 Yeah, I suppose you're right. I just wish we saw more of her, as long as it's to a healthy amount for her, of course.

[@replicantMK2]

@@Kirivera I feel the same about gura, I think she probably already tried leaving and since she's become pretty much the face of hololive it's in their best interest to not let that happen, and probably offered her more money so she stays

[@benjamindonahue9434]

It is interesting to think about at least. All of my oshis are the more performative types (Calli, Bae, Nerissa, Liz, Suisei, with Kaela being the exception) so I don't see them leaving soon. It was certainly the music that got me into Vtubers/HL, but it's definitely the streaming and/or collaborative content that actually made me want to learn about them and really become a fan. The concerts are certainly my favorite content but I view that as the height of what they do and almost completely meaningless without getting to know them through their other content. I suppose a silver lining to corporate Vtubers leaving is that a good portion of fans seem to follow the talent should they resume independantly, just kinda sucks iff you only knew them as that character first (Vesper, Magni, Selen, Pomu, Ame, Fauna (just the example I can think of off hand)). Said it half jokingly when it happened, but maybe A chan really will be like the Harambe meme. Everything started going down hill when she left...... Keep watch on Fubuki!

[@SoraKairiLeonhartfan]

Fubuki is many things; a storm of fur, decibels, and steel... a very good friend... and, metaphorically speaking- -the canary in the coal mine, the Cadia, the 300 Spartans, *the* last stand of Hololive. If Fubuki leaves... then we all leave.

[@Bomber_Fish]

I'm a Nijisanji fan and it is sad to say that i have seen this happened before. I have been screaming on top of my lungs about how Nijisanji's sharp turn into what they are today are caused by their shareholders changing stuff around like they know what the hell they are doing. Nobody cares about my theory then and people are just keep parroting each other and said "Riku Tazumi bad" and keep forgetting how little the power a CEO have when the shareholders are taking over. Now it happened again, these shareholder blob is consuming cover corp. There is a few ways to stop this take over but it is pretty much impossible at this point, Cover corp is already losing control of the situation. I think this is it guys.. the Hololive we know today might be over.

[@Bomber_Fish]

Even though i was right for realizing the danger of shareholders taking over while being called "a bot" by Hololive fans back in the days, I will not be here to say "Told you so" because we are all cooked at this point. Even though i'm more of a Nijisanji fan today, I started watching VTtuber from Kizuna A.I era and then started watching Livestream form of Vtuber content from Sora and Robocco. The truth is i do love both Vtubers from the two agencies. Now all i can do is brace for impact and hope that Hololive didnt hit the ground as hard as Nijisanji.

[@arttizkappa2588]

History repeats itself

[@janarcangel49]

it's always tbe guys in the suits man.

[@DarkBlqze77777]

​@@janarcangel49 with A-Chan no longer there (one of the Main Tri-Pillars), now the "Black Suit" people are taking over, slowly but Surely.. The Talents didn't have A-Chan anymore to shoulder on plus motivate them, and the Black Suits People are only care bout the money n themself, "who cares bout the talents? As long as they're bringing money to us, is no problem" ~Black Suits Probably n slowly they're falling like nijisanji.. like in the upper replies said "History repeats by itself" 😗

[@lmko]

Bad for Cover that talents see that Corp need them more than they need Corp. But don't want to consider that fact. As employer in other jobs.

[@rotorhead4757]

I think this is a good analysis of the situation. But personally, I feel it's not entirely "forced by investors" either. Cover chose to go public because they want to move into the entertainment industry. Does that make Cover evil? Absolutely not. Do I personally like it? No. I prefer the streaming first/idol stuff second model.I feel this graduation sadly comes down to difference of vision more than anything

[@kissena3830]

Not all investors are bad. It is just that more people with money are greedy. What you should be looking are investors that are not greedy or align with your company ethics and policy. Also, not all investors are shareholders. And technically, everyone can be an investor

[@thexsoar]

Love the subtle channel recommendation at the end.

[@Jastake]

i remember her statement about leaving due to disagreement with management but i also remember when Moona was talking about how she felt about the Fauna an Chloe situation she mentioned that a lot of times she uses the company debt system to get ahead in her channel or to make certain collabs happens for songs ect. and said that Fauna didnt like doing that because she didnt like owning to the company but her channel was also the slowest growing because of it and management most likely said she doesnt want to use her debt system to get ahead and the manager was trying to suggest things to make her channel grow which is probably where they had the disagreement because Moona did mention that they usually have to pay it back with sponsors percentages or giving bigger percent of there superchats to the company until they pay off the debt. i think its just that she didnt feel comfortable accepting the money given her kindhearted nature.

[@rm9346]

Supreme clickbait title got me. Once.

[@akira8393]

Yagoo made a whole video where he wants his vtubers to be ip like disney. I'm pretty sure i know why he makes dev is in the first place.

[@dimetime35c]

This is why you should NEVER mix corporations and creativity! Unless they are owned by the talent shareholders will ALWAYS destroy creative vision. ALL shareholders care about is money and f everything else!

[@RianLKLock]

Those darn investors only care about money

[@Jailtino-p1q]

As much as I hate this, it makes sence, that you want to get more money out of your investment, especially when its I dont know what shares are worth, but lets just say 10k U$D. Of course you want that back and at best every time with more profit. But yes ignoring everything for the sake of quik stupid money is well... stupid, because youu quikly lose money this way.

[@akira8393]

I mean it is business afterall

[@buckweevil]

Investors rarely consider fully the cost of alienating fans.

[@backpackpepelon3867]

Arts and morality is a burden to capitalism. Finding middle ground is the best, but when you're involved in horrible organization like blackrock, you know damm well they don't tolerate middle ground like that.

[@KeebeThePlush]

I hope things can get resolved soon because Chloe is retiring for the same reason

[@rm9346]

What basis do you have for this claim? One talent said "This has nothing to do with management." The second said "This is because of management." The talent asks us to believe their words over internet trolls.

[@LockOn7016]

@@rm9346 ?? fauna said its because of disagreements with mgmt, chloe and Aqua said they don't agree with the way the company is going. go watch the translations

[@blackwatertv7018]

No…? She’s taking the affiliate route.

[@fludeity]

My theory on Fauna's graduation maybe far off but hear me out. She said she liked "being an idol" and wants to "continue streaming" so we should believe her words for that. Maybe just maybe Hololive does not want their talents to be active/upload content on their alternate accounts. Fauna on her Lemonleaf account uploaded a video just days before her graduation announcement. Now that seems rather odd and you can definitely connect the dots. She also stated that she wanted to continue with Hololive but there was a "disagreement with management" that caused her to make a decision to graduate. That "disagreement" maybe is because they want Fauna to remove/delete her alternate account. This is all just speculation but it seems fishy.

[@AceLive_]

Businesses and corps will only react if they suffer major losses. By last year losing Mel, Aqua, Amelia, then Fauna and soon Chloe... these talents are not enough to blow them to change. I mean except for Aqua, the rest that are leaving aren't superior at least or represent entire hololive. I think Miko, Pekora, or Gura might have an effect since they most likely the face of hololive. To a certain degree, they keep debuting newer talents so their lost is replenish. Big corps don't change just cause talents left. Fans of the ones the left are probably fans of other talents. Unless they lost all fans and revenue starts to die, this is where Yagoo finally do what Niji did and make public apology but you won't see that happening.

[@megalodon7916]

What was that about Sweet Baby Inc.? Surely Hololive wasn’t dumb enough to associate with those human cancer cells. I know they are definitely not behind the recent graduations. That’s ridiculous. Still, I sincerely hope they weren’t dumb enough to let that curse of a company have anything to do with their business. If they did, they will more than likely come to regret it eventually.

[@Keniisu]

Hololive has investors from Vanguard and BlackRock, however they have a >1% share, so it’s unlikely they’re influencing things at all. Despite this, some have said because of their recent new development in California and these investments that there may be consultants being pushed from these two corporations. I think this is a massive leap.

[@deckyfx2188]

People also speculated this is related to why Cover open a branch in CA.

[@kuro4746]

multiple talents have come out debunking this idol push narrative and you are clearly ignoring it to push your own narrative by look the looks of the comment section.

[@Keniisu]

I'm not ignoring differing perspectives, it's clear Hololive is changing as a company, and that's evident by the statements recently given by Baelz who said as much, and company statements on what they envision the future of Hololive to look like. You can disagree this change is a push toward 'Idol' activities, but I don't think it's a meritless belief all things considered.

[@fish-kt4iq]

​@@Keniisubut bae is a company girl though

[@TheRJOmega]

😢. I feel sad man. I havent eat today after the news broke out...

[@Kirivera]

We'll be alright. Let's follow her in whatever form she takes on next. Maybe, like Ame, Coco, and Salen, she just thrive more as an independent talent.

[@AlphaSierraHotel117]

Glad to see that you're still around Keniisu. Are you excited for Civ 7?

[@Keniisu]

Very much so!

[@chriskwakernaat2328]

Fauna loves performing , but if she needs to ramp it up, . she'd have to travel a lot more to JP (or move there like bae and bau bau did) I think that's the problem for the ones graduating.

[@Kazrron]

Very sudden, and based on her grad stream, sounds like she was a pillar for many of her co-workers behind the scenes too.. which probably won't bode well in the long term

[@IrregularHunterx76]

@@Kazrron it wasn't suden tho a least not fot them, she created her new Twitter account in August and Bae did say that they knew about this a long time ago

[@RyanJohnson-900]

Oh my god I'm going to cry right now, Why?! I just watched her stream and asmr less than a month..... FU*K!

[@HGKaveman]

Finally someone with some common sense. I've always felt like this was for the most part always the case. When you're part of a company, you literally work for the company. This is something the talents know before joining too. They for the most part probably wouldn't have made it by themselves as a single indie streamer. So getting the foot in the door is what Hololive provided so it's weird people would hate and criticize the company when we wouldn't have known of them otherwise. It's not because of poor management it's because the company has to make their talents work and benefit the company. It's all a pretty simple concept really.

[@TheDanieru]

Vtubers are like the new hollywood or music stars for the newer generations of people. Ofc the sponsors and investors seeing them as potential tools for their own goals like (mostly) propaganda and product selling. Idoling is basically Hollywood Stars + Parasocial Binding on (stable) customers. This is more brutal, than Hollywood Stars, who have no direct connections to their fans. This is so perfect for those investors and ofc more profitable than their previous tools. Unfortunately due to our current financial system, hololive is bound to those orders, but fortunately the talents aren‘t and they can stand by their own due to their reputations.

[@jinoku2000]

It did 'feel' like they might have been pushing/requiring talents to do more performances and songs recently. Either way, not working with Fauna to keep her there was a big fumble. At this point if HoloEN all went independent their fan base would hop ship with them.

[@jordanpickering6912]

The great thing about Vtubering is the agency that they have, the audience will follow no matter what and the corp barely has any power. Think this all these agencies are beginning to realise that Vtubers don't need them once they are on their feet, and the option to leave is always there. Corps got to learn that till it sticks.

[@SebastiaojeronimomedeirosGuerr]

😢😢😢I don't want Chloe and Fauna to leave Hololive or a lot of fans will go crazy and become depressed.

[@millor3san_ch]

Investors..., They probably forgot who buy tickets to go to the concert and to go to for

[@TheXell]

Fauna was the one EN member I didn't want to graduate. Fuck.

[@Area_GnC]

We've clowing on Niji for so long. I don't want to stop.... Please COVER fix yourself. Don't become like your opponent!!

[@daisukeniwa402645]

Hololive is nothing like nijisanji or nowhere close to being like nijisanji.

[@SomeoneThatExists-rj5oo]

@daisukeniwa402645 Anything can happen at this point, so don't jinx it

[@KalloSkull]

So let's just lay out the facts. First fact is even many JP talents out of nowhere have talked a lot about there having been many changes recently and how things now are rougher, and it's hard on some talents. This coincides with four members suddenly quitting, all who have hinted at not being able to answer the company's & management's demands. People have speculated since the start it has to do with changes in the company's policies and mismanagement of certain talents (this is not just on EN side, it's actually more so JP fans). Now we have Fauna literally spilling the beans by confirming she's leaving due to disagreement with management, despite wanting to stay. Fauna who was seemingly happy in the company always before. This comes shortly after a Holostar absolutely trashed Cover's management. Those are the facts, so it seems the speculations are at least somewhat correct. On top of all this, somehow this happens right after A-Chan also leaves, which may or may not be related but seems odd. The fans and talents can say what they want, but all this hardly seems like a coincidence. Perhaps the specifics of the graduations aren't connected per se, but something's going on behind the scenes that's now suddenly causing unbearable issues for many members. Where there's smoke there's fire, and where there's enough dots those dots form a line pointing a certain direction.

[@fish-kt4iq]

2 is a coincidence, more than that is a pattern. All the recent graduations citing disagreement with management in an indirect way, only with fauna being blunt.

[@YourTypicalMental]

Having given myself enough time to process this, it makes me believe 2025 is going to be a pivotal year for Vtubing. We're to see if the honeymoon is over. Whether Japanese Investors truly 'get' or care about the Western audience and to what extent the Western audience is willing to stomach the darker facets of Idol culture. The Vtuber market has plateaued, but there's still everything to play for. Yagoo will be dealing with not only a clash of business strategies but of cultures. And if he can't thread that needle, and none of you are ready to hear this, maybe the one shot the non-Idol focused NijiEN can win back some goodwill in the Western audience.

[@daisukeniwa402645]

Nijisanji en can never win back the goodwill

[@yeskarengayton]

Like... EN fans don't really care for the idol side so I don't know why investors push that stuff. I mean it does pay off but then you get situations like this, their big vtubers graduating and fans being angry at Hololive.

[@RDMS360]

I don't know how it works, but, could it be that going for idol stuff, they are trying to sell physical products like accessories or get money from other sources like music streaming?

[@nikyuut]

Lemonleaf is the key 👀

[@peppu32]

She was a lemon tree all along

[@1rotzy]

So many hololive members are leaving too quickly. What the hell is going on behind those doors? Is Niji not the only company with a black mark?

[@anzok6743]

Man I Love lemon leaF

[@cantinoch9579]

I wonder if the crazy idol fans being louder than the normal fans gets the investors thinking that these are the normal fans and makes Cover push idol stuff more as a result too.

[@AZmaybe9]

Quite clear now that Hololive made itself unsustainable with like 600 people now a part of it. So the only way through is for the talents to push themselves even harder despite already earning super well? I only see this burning through more and more girls to reach a truly unsustainable vision.

[@lordmetallium9678]

Short answer to new vtubers go indie

[@KimDoeYoung]

Honestly, I kind of knew someone at Promise was gonna graduate. If you check out the list from Holo JP members from 1 thru 5, They all have 4 members each now. Now Chloe leaving so Gen 6 will be a 4 members as well. Holo EN starting that trend too with 4 members. Now I am just wondering who will JP Gen 0 will leave... Cause this pattern is starting to be predicable coincidence or not... Fuwamoco counts as 1 member in Advert even though they are 2 (individual) people.

[@hrodgarthevegan]

Non japanese speakers and those who won't move to Japan are on the chopping block . Mumei is very similar to Fauna

[@rantafor4377]

Mumei is probably graduating but that would more than likely be because of real life stuff (she has a lot of things going on) rather than a conflict with management.

[@hrodgarthevegan]

@@rantafor4377 Sure, but if management ( shareholders) want more participation, then it's conflict with management.

[@rantafor4377]

@@hrodgarthevegan kind of but it would be more of a conflict with time as Mumei has stuff like college, her pets, and even her future career to worry about.

[@hrodgarthevegan]

@rantafor4377 Ok but that sounds like you are assuming something different for Fauna. I'm sure Fauna has to split her time with other things in her life but she is more dedicated to being an idol. That is why I'm saying Mumei is likely next, Gura would be as well if she wasn't so iconic . She might be as well for all we really know.

[@TiredYan]

I personally am not fond of sweet baby inc but what do they have to do with vtubers they’re a game narrative company

[@MICHAELTUMANGDAY]

Screw the investors! I wonder if it has something to do with her ASMR... ASMR is risky at this point and they don't want it to become a risk...but that's just me.

[@kpando4952]

I've been saying it since day one, cover corp should be more clear with its reasons for firing or for the vtubers quitting. Whenever holotuberd graduate, you are forced to just fake positivity and not questiong a single thing, this was a long time coming.

[@JP-fq5zj]

That would affect their ability to operate in the US.

[@algfourty9185]

Yagoo's argument of "needing investors to stay afloat" seems ludicrous when the eye-test would suggest thousands of dollars flowing in through superchats alone on a daily basis. Of course we really know the answer to that... Capitalism... When all of the money is not enough money.

[@asura3888]

Sometimes that alone just isn't enough to keep a company afloat. It's likely that if cover wanted to continue to grow and sustain itself they would've needed that investment.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

Stop blaming Capitalism as if Coomminism is the answer to all woes of the Universe (It is as much of an answer as answering that 2+2 equals Banana, you're wanting to ignore and defy how reality operates). This problem is from INVESTOR RELIANCE. Were things to be allowed a Normal Capitalistic operation without Investors (the ones demanding Line go up every damn Investor Report during Financial Quarters), businesses would be operating at the capacity they can, expanding through firmly setting foundations and spare funds savings. Slow but reliable growth, and then keeping the size where it can operate at the equilibrium of balance.

[@kelvinw.1384]

​@@asura3888I would argue Phase Connect is doing pretty good despite no investors.

[@rantafor4377]

cover corp isn't some tiny house business, it's...a corporation and superchats and t-shirts alone can't keep a corporation afloat especially one that does a lot more than just manage Vtubers.

[@NA-ud6qm]

I think Amelia graduating (i guess) presented a major blow to the company given her amazing set of skills. I think Fauna just realized this lol.

[@kaiselplay4681]

The problem is that Amelia is an affiliate which can go back and can still earn money without doing anything just wearing Ame' skin and doing promotion ads, sponsored and etc idol stuff. Compared to Fauna who graduates which becomes solo again. The problem is... if she can handle the status of ex corp which some people think fauna and fauna' alt/PL have same quality of content.

[@chalkeater641]

I wish Fauna was going the Doobie way. Id like to see her without restrictions. But if she doesn't want to go back to streaming I support it. She can do what she feels is right and I hope whatever she does she excels in in every way.

[@fish-kt4iq]

Lemonleaf

[@Pikacha25]

“Appeasing the investors/shareholders” has been the source of so much nonsense the past couple of decades. Screw this rampant capitalism.

[@luisochoa576]

Hololive won't be the same now that dark manage-chan is in charge... We'll see how many girls survive the new harsher and cruel environment.

[@hrodgarthevegan]

Exactly, they dont understand the appeal of Hololive EN fans. Its not the idol and concerts that the Japanese like. Its the gaming, streaming, collabs, personalities and relationships. I believe every EN who isnt Idol mayerial and who dkmt speak japanese or moving to Japan are being targeted. Which means alot of EN. I think they want to cut back on managers and managing people overseas.

[@dzzdzzd]

It's the same reason for Aqua quit, the introvert ones didn't comfortable with this "idol" direction. They just want to stream and less "live" performance. As introvert I really can understand that.

[@sparklingx4448]

Akua never explicitly stated the reason for her graduation. So not wanting to be an idol is just speculation from the audience. Sakuna, she briefly explained a bit in yesterday member live. Based on her situation at the time, if she stayed, she would be forced to do something against her personal will. Whether it's for her fans or for herself, leaving a beautiful legend would be a more appropriate choice.

[@kenchicken7377]

GOOMBA leaving will be the NAIL IN THE COFFIN ON EN SIDE

[@Adyen11234]

I don't think that the push towards the "idol" activities is the main contributing factor for either Fauna or Aqua. We don't really need to talk about Chloe since she has said that her main reason is health, and she literally did not say anything about a disagreement with management. With perms... let's be real, anyone graduating from Hololive is probably big enough that they *will* get in trouble if they tried to play and stream something without perms. The idea that they're leaving Holo because management can't get them perms to play certain games is just not something we need to consider either. With Ame... It is obvious that the kind of stuff she wanted to do was much more than just what Hololive is comfortable with in regards to personal identity. With the recent Keekihime scare, it *would* make sense if they're cracking down on information control and such, which Sakuna has sort of brought up as part of the reason why she had considered not streaming anymore. I feel that this, and the stress of their online life eating up more and more of their time, is probably the main reason why those girls are leaving. But then there's like Shiori who basically said that she can decline any work she didn't like. We do know that one of the main way for getting work within Hololive is to choose to do so. While we don't know the exact system being used, the idea it's because of "needing to do more idol stuff" is not very likely. In fact, it might be the opposite and the push towards "less idol stuff" like merch promotion or voice recording for public consumption (or commercialization) that they just don't feel comfortable enough to do.

[@Natsukashii-Records]

I still don't get why those big vtubers need managers, and more so big company managers that are so controlling of the content etc. the streamers do. It seems to me that indie models can do just as well with a lot more freedom.

[@captainthunderbolt7541]

This is what, in the business world, would be referred to as a misuse of human capital. Western fans will get into a little bit of the Idol side of things, but really, we just want our comfy streams. Trying to make the whole idol business model take off in the West is something that was never going to happen. If the shareholders break the EN talent by trying to force square plugs into round holes, then they are the ones who will ultimately lose money - because they will destroy Hololive EN, and we will just follow our favourite streamers as they all go independent!!

[@CATELlegend1]

You either focus on soul or money. Cant have both

[@rantafor4377]

I think it is just proof that English Vtubing and Asian vtubing are separating even more. Asian Vtubing is getting more based on pretending to be anime characters that interact with fans while English Vtubing is becoming more "regular streamer with a JPG" and with Hololive going towards the former while many of the English Vtubers are clearly wanting to drift towards the later (E.G. Ina and Kronii) I can see more and more EN graduations in the coming years. With all this said I don't think Mori or Gura are leaving anytime soon while they are not exactly "happy" with their situations their deal with Hololive gives them a lot of opportunities and they make a decent chunk of money from it, probably more money than if it they decided to go it alone (as they don't just make money off of the streaming but also the other stuff Holo has them do).

[@KronosTheRevenant]

Hopefully, people who invest into these companies actually learn the meaning of "INVESTMENT" and get their heads out of their asses and let the CEOs of these companies direct them how they want. Clearly, some idol companies are profitable the way they operate, so stop trying to change it so drastically for short term gains.

[@sebastian420]

Mumei and Gura will be the next i think. Kiaria do a memership explain/defend cover, like the side of god o the devil

[@fish-kt4iq]

Don't forget bae defending holo like she's not a company girl

[@blackwatertv7018]

So the way I see it, Cover/Hololive can shrug this off and go “meh” and risk ending up becoming Niji/Anycolor OR they can have a long hard think about things and work through it. Keep in mind 2/3 of the recent graduates are still “technically” associated with the company.

[@mattex2655]

I really don't think it's going for Black company but if you think so I don't know what to say, it takes time to become Rotten

[@fish-kt4iq]

They're not gonna do the latter, this is basically shareholder initiative by the looks of it. Cover has a 600% increase in revenue this past year with only 200% increase to the talents. The shareholders still think this is not enough that some of them are calling for yagoo to be replaced.

[@Michael59197]

Investors destroy everything when they force changes into matters they know nothing about. Let vtubers do what they are good at and enjoy. These idol concerts bring a lot of money, but they also cost a lot. And the talents have to go to Japan where the big 3D studios are located. It's not a coincidence a lot of EN members moved there recently. Streaming doesn't cost that much. Hololive will lose more than the girls who left.

[@Deceris]

How can Hololive cannot substain without investor, are they making fun of us ?

[@RRed19]

@@Deceris yes. Because we don’t have INFINITE MONEY like they do.

[@charlyman123]

Feeling mighty anticapitalist rn

[@meriscorditan2799]

Well, it is capitalism after all. Best hope for them in this society would be a worker co-op.