Installing a Grundfos Hot Water Recirculating Temperature Pump UP10 16

Residential home install off a 50 gallon natural gas water heater.
I have reconsidered my decision on that 1st 2.5" galvanized nipple out to brass tee. I should have used all brass. I am going to pull out the galvanized and replace with brass nipple this weekend, the reason is because I won't have to worry about galvanic corrosion with that connection and it's good insurance.
get your pump here
www.supplyhouse.com/Grundfos-...
and your union fittings here
www.supplyhouse.com/Grundfos-...

[@walterbordett2023]

You are seeing condensation of flue gases because the tank is full of cold water. Perfectly normal. Read your water heater manual it tells you all about that. Most jurisdictions require the relief valve outlet to be piped to within four inches of the floor to prevent scalding when it vents. Thanks for the video.

[@temtagesson]

Good video and detailed. I'm installing a pump and dedicated return line myself. Ingenious idea to have the hot-water return come in the bottom drain. That's what I will do too. Well that hot water heater is pretty old. I replace mine as the guarantee runs out. That way I never have a surprise. Besides that Insurance companies frown on old equipment.

[@emtm6954]

Very detailed n clear. You are the man👍👍👍

[@billrimmer5596]

Be thankful u have that old gas valve system. In California we have the smart gas valves that shut off at any hint of anything. I have had nothing but trouble with my AO Smith gas water heater. The trouble code that comes up all the time is replace burner. AOSmith has sent me two of them. Piece of junk. Next one that goes out I’m reverting to the old Maxitrol that u have there. Also, u will keep the water from stratifying and the bottom of the tank clean!!

[@KenTraining]

I was going to buy a AO smith for my next water heater until I read your post. Do you recommend Rheem or Bradford White?

[@billrimmer5596]

@@KenTraining I am not really qualified to recommend a brand. I am just relating what I will do next time the burner fails. I have purchased a Maxitrol and will adapt it to my heater when it happens. I apologize for my lack of knowledge about other brands. My grandson bought a Rheem 50 gallon that uses the hybrid refrigeration system. No gas. California will b phasing out gas water heaters in the future. Gas appliances r big time greenhouse contributors. Until then, we still have to shower or take baths. Thank u Mr. Ken Training

[@p51mustang31]

Awesome video! Did you need to install any kind of check valve on the return line, or does the pump have one internally? Is there any reason why I can't use 1/2" PEX as the return line?

[@KenTraining]

Built-in check valve in union models, and using PEX is not a problem.

[@DS-xe2gl]

The size of the return line depends on the GPM / Speed of the pump. There is a maximum velocity that water should travel through piping in order to reduce wear and tear. So if the pump matches the size of the return line, then 1/2" is fine.

[@brianb9410]

Nice job!

[@sojusliimtdflock]

After 40 years, he's having these issues. That's a pretty brand new house that means there was shoddy work done in the process of building that house... Good luck with the future...

[@KenTraining]

I live in a track home. Workman ship is average quality. the copper Water supply pipes failing after only 41 years is low, I agree but the soil is acidic causing the premature life expectancy.

[@sojusliimtdflock]

@KenTraining Makes sense with that acidity going on... Well, good luck with your future projects, my friend, and thanks for the video...

[@CWillC1972]

Thanks for the video, and good on you that you're keep up with your anodes. Above the HW tank is a blue box that that appears to be a Johnson Controls motorized control valve on the CW IN line. What are you using that for?

[@KenTraining]

its a Watts Floodsafe control box and valve. click here to see the full video kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpDNoKWLlquceqc I will tell you right now, DO NOT buy this model. the valve is supposed to close upon water on the sensor and my valve does not close correctly. If you want this level of safety buy the valve that is powered. I may change over to this type but have not done so yet.

[@Demy26]

Great job

[@msantos128]

Hi thanks for the video and the explanation, let me ask please: why does the return line goes into the drain valve of the tank , and why not on the cold water line before or in bwtween the expansion tank?. Thanks

[@KenTraining]

You could put the return line on the cold water inlet to accomplish the same result.

[@henryt9254]

@@KenTraining Not true. If your return line gets into the cold water, in essence you will be drinking water straight from the water heater. The right way is to plumb a dedicated line like this video back to the water heater without ever going into the cold water line.

[@pollydor07]

Great job . Thanks

[@mikefa5891]

Glad i came across your video as i was thinking about installing a hot water recirculating pump because i have 6 people living in a 5 bedroom house with 3 full baths and it takes literally 3-5 minutes for the hot water to reach our bathrooms which means probably 30-50 gallons of wasted water every single day because we all work different shifts and take showers during different times of the day and night. So, my question is, although i know i will save a lot of water probably 30-50 gallons per day, but how much energy does the pump use every day if i leave the pump on 24 hours a day all year round? And how long will the pump last if it is running 24/7/365. The pump costs $219 from Lowes at my place which i can afford, but can't afford it if i need to replace it every couple of years or so.

[@KenTraining]

the cost to run 24/7 is $10/year. The pump should last at least 10 to 15 years. If you have a recirculation line that this is a no brainer to have the pump installed.

[@mikefa5891]

@@KenTraining thank you Ken!

[@doug995.]

Plumbing codes do not allow black iron or galvanized fittings on a domestic water system, brass was the correct choice.

[@KenTraining]

I did end up going back to brass. (off Video) I did to prevent galvanic action, I did not know it was code. Thanks

[@jamesharrison7261]

The gfi is not readily "accessible" based on article 100's definition of "accessible" 😮 Good info in any case : )

[@svann471]

Hello, Great video. I do not see you connected a pipe to the top nipple of the water circulation. What pipe from the water you should connect to the top of the water circulator pump that you left off? Thank you.

[@KenTraining]

the hot water outlet is the feed for the return water system at the farthest point, which in my case the kitchen sink.

[@Ptro1]

Is the green light supposed to blink in the temperature mode?

[@KenTraining]

Yes, when the internal thermostat is satisfied. When solid green the motor is running.

[@RanveerJayani]

Thank you for a great video. All the steps are nicely, explained, and easy to understand. I have a question regarding installation of a recirculating pump that doesn’t have an internal check valve and when I already have a water softener. Water softener is installed at the point if entry to house (I have one hose which is before water softener to plant waters). Would it still be all right to install this pump on the water heater or I need to install check wall just after the soft water softener ?

[@KenTraining]

I think you will be fine without the check. if you run into an issue, you can always add a check for low cost.

[@bheavy62]

I use the same pump for infloor heating in my bathroom, rans off hot water tank

[@paulaven2021]

I'm not sure I get it. I just installed a recirculating pump myself. Did you install a thermo bypass valve under your kitchen sink? Or did I miss that?? Without a thermo valve how are you going to regulate circulation and keep the kitchen sink at a comfortable temperature.

[@henryt9254]

His version is different from your's. Your system re-circulates back into the cold water side (potable).His recirculates back into the hot water side which never contaminates the potable water side. I would advice that you flush the heater tank at least twice a year and change the anode rod once a year to keep it clean if you consume that water.

[@smartDQualcomm]

Hi, would you recommend connecting the hot water return line to the cold water line? Connecting to the bottom drain I heard is risky. If we connect to the cold inlet line, what would be your recommended design?

[@KenTraining]

the cold water inlet is also good for the return line. The cold water inlet feeds into a dip tube that dispenses near the bottom of the tank. You are good with this approach or the drain line, like I did.

[@Nobody-tf7mv]

Very nice video & detailed. A question though, I see the recirculation pump can be installed at the top, out of the hot water outlet or at the bottom drain end as you have done. I am replacing my water heater and I have the recirculation pump currently at the bottom of the tank as well. Will it be ok if with the new water heater, I instead opt for putting the recirculating pump at the top instead and close the valve which is currently coming out of my wall (recirculating line) and into the bottom drain? Will putting at the top be more effective?

[@KenTraining]

Let me understand, your recirc pump, are you saying it will get its suction from the top of the tank hot water supply line and the discharge will be? Either I am not understanding how you wrote it or your new design will bypass the tank and only circulate the water in the hot water supply line.

[@Nobody-tf7mv]

​@@KenTraining What i meant was. With the new water heater I am installing, I wanted to Install the Hot water recirculating pump at the Hot water Outlet at the top of the tank and the sensor which comes along with it at the farthest end at my home. Today with the old water heater what i have is just like what you installed. The recirculation pump is feeding into the bottom of the tank.

[@davidstevens1911]

@@KenTrainingI don’t see the point in going in through the drain valve hole Putting a “T” on the cold water inlet will still take the pump return water to the bottom of the tank. Also think if you research it you will find brass to galvanized isn’t a big deal. Is that blue box an automatic shutoff for leaks?

[@KenTraining]

@@davidstevens1911 you are right, I could have put the pump flow to the inlet water supply side and left the drain alone. I may try that next time. Yes the blue box is the shut the water off in the event of the water heater is leaking water. I have since changed it out because the blue box failed to shut the water off during testing. the new one works much better. you can see the video here kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3XPgXyMiqqKo8U

[@BobandGenevieve]

Do you need to put a check valve in the cold water inlet so the pump doesn't push hot water back into the cold side?

[@trevorkolmatycki4042]

That pump has a check valve built into it.

[@TheCaduceus3]

Where did you find a supply line with a male and a female connector? Is that some sort of coupling? I'm having trouble connecting my pump to the hot water supply line.

[@KenTraining]

my pump is connected from the Hot water supply line at the farthest point in the house which is near my kitchen sink. that has a tee fitting and a return line to the inlet side of the pump. from there it goes to the Water heater drain line at the bottom of the tank.

[@MySpace662]

Where do you install the sensor valve for the shower

[@KenTraining]

its built into the pump.

[@MyITIGyan]

Good👍 sharing

[@fritzs1207]

i have brand new heater and re circulation pump . when the pump is on the heater will leak from the bottom (not from the drain valve) any idea ?

[@KenTraining]

What is your system pressure? put a pressure gage on the water heater drain valve to monitor this. Also, how are you taking care of thermal expansion? Do you have an expansion tank like me? You don’t want to exceed 80 psi. check out this video on my system kzbin.info/www/bejne/iJSrc3Z_hJyerdk also, I wonder if this is just when your heater is cold on first start up or ongoing?

[@fritzs1207]

@@KenTraining no expansion tank . it only happens when the re circulation pump is on . we will see water accumulating ubder the heater i put light into the drain valve no leaks . it is coming from under it. mine is electrical heater

[@KenTraining]

​@@fritzs1207 if this is a new water heater, it must still be under warranty. I would replace it under the warranty. It does not make any sense to me why it would leak with a recirc pump running. If you were running high pressures for some reason, the safety relief valve would open. Are you sure none of your piping connections are not leaking on the top of the unit? you could have a leak at the top and because of gravity you only notice it at the bottom...

[@fritzs1207]

@@KenTraining i will take out next week thanks Ken

[@fritzs1207]

@@KenTraining i will also open it while disconnected to locate the leak

[@stevenmorris3181]

Next installation should be an on and off pump timer. Grundfos does make one thats built in but not your model. Gas bill can jump like crazy if lines are long with no insulation quality

[@trevorkolmatycki4042]

Im pretty sure That pump has a downstream isolation valve built into it. It is hidden under the black plastic back cover… if it is the model with built in union fittings.

[@KenTraining]

you are correct it does have that.

[@mashouse878]

how is that pump performing for you?

[@KenTraining]

very good, I would buy again.

[@mashouse878]

@@KenTraining thx for the reply. just installed new water heater yesterday in my home. will be using this pump because of you.

[@zvisztulwark9172]

You need to replace the t&p valve because It’s an old valve and you an expention tank the will leak

[@KenTraining]

I did replace, Thanks

[@ScottyBrunton]

Do you need a dielectric union between the galvanized nipple and the brass tee at the water heater outlet, otherwise you WILL get electrolysis. You effectively created a dielectric union between the brass nipples and steel mounting brackets at the pump with the tape you put around them. Good luck!

[@KenTraining]

I ended up exchanging the galvanized nipple for a brass nipple and I put tape on steel brackets from brass nipple.

[@kendaleklund7475]

An insulating union is required at all water heater connections when you have metal piping, such as copper or brass.

[@rj.parker]

It would have been good to explain the return line plumbing and control which is what a lot of us came to learn.

[@KenTraining]

What do you by control? my pump has a built in T-stat.

[@rj.parker]

Many have demand control such as proximity and or timer control. The goal is to avoid lost energy either hot water cooling off and then recirculating several times a night or perhaps to a remote guest bath. In any case describing the control strategy, built in or not helps. Sometimes it’s hard to put yourself in the place of someone who has not read installation procedures.

[@KenTraining]

@@rj.parker Thanks, Great comments.

[@TolaTrucking]

This pump is ab$450 wow ...German stuff What's the reason for having the heater strapped?

[@steveswan9672]

Earthquakes. (Or rambucious kids playing in the basement?)

[@henryt9254]

Your recirculating system returns the hot water into the water heater drain which gets back into the water heater. This way, the system between the hot and cold are isolated and never contaminates to the cold water (potable) side. Yes, this works better compared to the other system that the return line hooks up to the cold water side, which in essence gets into the potable water. Could you imagine having a return line that feeds into the cold water side and the owner never ever flushes the water heater and yet consumes that water ? Folks, take note that this is the correct way to plumb a recirculation pump. The other system re-circulates into the cold water side which is a cheap way of doing it and it also works, but your drinking water is also part of your water heater. Thumbs up for your setup, but it requires a lot more plumbing to loop it back to the water heater.

[@guttmech]

Copper is best for water pex u do yourself as need

[@douglaswindsor120]

So why are you hiring someone to do something as simple as a pex redo it not as hard as my first major plumbing job on my brothers up down triplex it was all copper pipe when I rebuild and did a large addition and a new basement to my home 2 and a half bathrooms in the upstairs 3 bedroom and bachelor suites 2 bathrooms on the lower floor kitchen up and down I did all the plumbing myself with pex pipe for all the water lines although it was a massive job pex made it easy should have used a dielectric coupler it's a lot cheaper than a new tank

[@henryt9254]

His system is more complicated. He has to install the return line from the furtherest hot water back to the water heater. So he did it when he re-plumb his entire system. He justify it when they re-do his system, otherwise it gets very expensive just to run a dedicated line to re-circulate the hot water back to the water heater.

[@SureShotImages]

You spent all that coin and didn’t replace the heater?

[@KenTraining]

correct, the water heater is still working...

[@thonatim5321]

saw-ring? Is that an English word?

[@williamlockhart9281]

This is 17 minutes of my life I won’t get back…. Half of what he talks about has nothing to do with the installation and does not complete the installation….

[@KenTraining]

Sorry, just trying to provide as much info as possible. I could not complete till the PEX return line was installed.

[@hyster2568]

Brass can touch steel, you just can’t touch copper to steel.

[@KenTraining]

Thank you!

[@ronsullivan132]

I would say no to that. Any dissimilar metals will create a currant through them. Copper is more active than brass, but brass is an alloy of copper and tin so the reaction is still present. Safest way is to keep them apart through an insulator, or keep all the same.

[@KenTraining]

I agree with you, after the video I ended up changing the galvanized nipple to brass. @@ronsullivan132

[@alexron2023]

All that work in a 20 year old tank? , I would replace the tank regardless. It’s past his prime age and any moment you’ll have a flooded garage

[@KenTraining]

I am going to wait till failure.

[@bludika]

lmao he installed galvanized nipple lmao

[@dwanebell274]

Good video, but way too much talking “off topic”. Video could have been half as long.

[@user-kj1iq3cs9b]

That's why you don't buy a water heater from the box stores because all have plastic drain valves. If you do buy one replace the plastic drain valve with a brass one before you install water heater. Also it's a very bad idea to use that galvanized nipple because it will corrode inside , trust me I been a licensed master plumber for 29 years I seen it all in my years, never ever use galvanized on any water lines . Contractor grade water heaters come with a brass drain valve, Do you think the manufacturer would use brass drain valves if they would cause any type of issue ? Of course not. I don't see a drip leg on the gas line what a hot mess. You didn't install a check valve either for that recirculation pump. Looks like a 4 year old installed that water heater. I would have just replaced the entire water heater and installed it the right way. I know in California you have to use flexible water lines and brace water heater due to the earthquakes. But it could have been done neater. In my area if you do any work on a customers water heater and there are any things not up to code you have to fix it correctly, if the customer doesn't want you to fix it then you tell them they need to hire someone else to do the work because the plumbee can loose his or her license if they work on a water heater and see things out of code and don't correct it

[@beerbbqman2644]

way too much unrelated talking

[@johnbennett8395]

Why is you are spending all this money replace the hot water tank your self for $600 ??

[@audybryan2730]

Please bro u need to delete that video and get a real plumber cause your installation is backwards..the circulatory pump should be on the hot water line..

[@KenTraining]

The suction side of the pumps piping is going to the furthest plumbing fixture hot water line and tee'ed off to the recirc. line to the pump and then to the drain port on the water heater. I am not sure what piping configuration you think would be better than that but please reply to this comment and let us all know. Thank you

[@audybryan2730]

No disrespect, I want to know if u mounted the pump on the hot water line from the water heater..and why would you connect it to your drain line..

[@KenTraining]

@Audy Bryan Its All good, great questions. I was having my house re-piped with PEX and that had not been done prior to the video being published. When I had the PEX re-pipe job installed, I had the plumber install a new hot water recirculation line which was run to my kitchen sink faucet which is the furthest plumbing fixture from the water heater. Now the next question becomes where to tap in the return hot water recirculation line. If I had brought the return line to the pump and then to the water heater hot discharge line, I would have only been recirculating the water from the hot discharge line to the kitchen sink. This would have been a poor installation as this line would cool off without the water heater realizing this. I ran the return line to the pump and then to the water heater drain line which is at the bottom of the water heater. The water heater is maintaining a tank temperature of 120F. The hot water recirculation pump will turn on when the line falls below 110f. This installation is ideal, and I have no waiting time when I turn on the hot side of the faucet. If you believe I should have done the install differently, I would like to hear it. Thanks KenTraining

[@cliffontheroad]

@@KenTraining I thought was weird also BUT you still can drain the tank and IMO it does not matter if the chilled, formerly hot water gets into the "feed" system via the drain line (which will never accumulate the junk you would usually flush out a gallon every once in a while) OR the cold water feed at the tank *** OR the cold water side of the kitchen sink which every other video has shown with the diverter valve under the sink testing the temp. ***=(my preference but it requires a new pipe down from upstairs, which U opted 4.) I wonder if tanks have a one-way valve, and while it is a presurized system, if there is no one-way valve at the house meter, tainted water could get back into the city supply and next Gothem City becomes a news story. LOL If the tank inlet cold side has a one-way, they your install is the only way to keep Gothem safe. :)

[@tonymc3817]

No, no , and just no.

[@KenTraining]

if you disagree with the installation, please state your reasoning. Thank you

[@user-kj1iq3cs9b]

What a mess. Very messy work. Looks like a 4 year old ran all those lines, not near at all. This has to be a DIY. Because if this is a plumber lord help us all.