Keyboard Vendor Rating System Reveal

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[@TaehaTypes]

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[@alfred.clement]

9:22 That's called the *Bus Factor*, which quantifies the risk associated with the information and capabilities being tied to a single individual within an organization. In essence, if you have a bus factor of one, it means the entire operation hinges on you alone. This presents a significant vulnerability, as any incapacitation on your part would lead to an operational shutdown. To mitigate this risk, it's crucial to elevate your bus factor by systematically distributing knowledge and responsibilities. This can be achieved through comprehensive documentation, cross-training team members, sharing critical information, and establishing robust succession and contingency plans. By doing so, you ensure that the business retains its momentum and resilience, irrespective of unforeseen events that may affect key individuals.

[@TaehaTypes]

today I learned, thank you for this bit of knowledge!

[@sinnthetic616]

Joined a GB for GMK Sumi from Project Keyboard back in 2020, still havent received them, and just found out the LLC was dissolved last month, so I'm down $300 I'm never getting back. Its good that youre sharing this information for others, so they dont end up like me.

[@ozziekhoo]

Any chance to get money back from paypal or bank?

[@sinnthetic616]

@@ozziekhoo the bank won’t do a charge back on a transaction that happened 3 years ago

[@kornboards]

Thanks again for hosting/sharing this information. Hopeful this continues to evolve into a system by where vendors/proxies and customers develop more trust in the community. I really like the idea of a centralized Group Buy status location where vendors can report and customers can track.

[@gharel396]

I think the admins making these determinations need some kind of accountability. It seems exceedingly likely that eventually that group will have bias or even perception of bias, and as gatekeepers of all these channels they have kingmaking power. At the very least a log of all the actions being taken.

[@rmendisify]

The system was designed to rate vendors based on objective criteria, which s clearly outlined in the documents. The criteria for ratings is specified, and the details of how the vendors met them (or failed them) will be provided in the details. No human is infallible, but the system must be able to withstand human subjectivity. If you have concerns about where bias can manifest in the system, happy to take the feedback. =)

[@gharel396]

@@rmendisify I think some of the more soft requirements like the quality of updates or what ratio of unfulfilled orders is a success vs. a fail. I can easily see some of these decisions on the margins landing differently if it's Novelkeys or if it's a less popular vendor. Ultimately this system gets legitimacy from high profile vendors participating and I can see that turning into being more lenient. The oblotzky situation is a good example of how opinion is inserted into the mix in terms of changing rules to get the outcomes that the admins want to see. (I understand this is because it's currently being designed, but a similar situation might come upin the future and transparency will be important) Don't get me wrong this is a great improvement, but I think there's editorial power that needs to be acknowledged. To throw some more noise out there, I think an objective database of facts that is open to everyone should be the foundation, not the rating. Then an opinionated rating can be calculated from these facts independently and by multiple people/entities. There may ever be one widely used rating system, but it can be "forked" if trust in the admins is lost.

[@SkimoStories]

This entire community is so heavily based on favouritism/nepotism. Bias is basically certain. The mech keys enthusiast industry is completely rotten.

[@gharel396]

@@SkimoStories that's a more cynical view than I have!

[@derkaiser9881]

​@@gharel396Absolutely, but it's also the most accurate one.

[@MrElariv]

Wonder if instead of absolute number of group buys we should think in terms of ratios like gbs/emplyees. Or #orders/employee. Also i feel like some of the problems encountered by some vendors were potentially caused by being tied to a single manufacturer. I feel like the successful vendors all have some type of variety of suppliers. For instance if a vendor does only GMK or MW, they become very dependant on their queue and potential manufacturing problems.

[@Tunnelsnakes]

Thank you for creating this system. It was sorely needed to get vendors up to a certain standard of workmanship and industry etiquette.

[@mozaic]

Rmendis, you should definitely look into showing history of ratings for vendors as they change over time

[@rmendisify]

We track the last rating in the both the details and summary table. We could certainly look at tracking the full history in the details.

[@HipyoTech]

This is definitely really cool for accessing GB risk, and I know it's supposed to be for rating GB risk - but I think it weirdly incentivizes stores to run more group buys for a higher rating. Group buys aren't inherently bad or negative, but there should be a way to reward vendors who do not run group buys or who run more in stock sales. Now that GBs and in stock are running more side by side - I'd like to see it turn into an overall trust and safety rating that favors in-stock sales.

[@bakeraus]

In Stock isn't much of a risk to consumers because the laws and transactions are easily reversed. A good amount of In Stock for vendors is still coming from Group Buy extras, GMK sets. The larger vendors who kick-arse and run their own In Stock would still get AA-AAA ratings from the Group Buy

[@HipyoTech]

That's what I mean, vendors that run more in stock stuff are taking the risk on themselves and that should be commended in some way. Maybe this isn't the exact sheet to do that, but I feel like all of these important mod teams should at least keep that in mind!@@bakeraus In stock isn't a perfect system either as they could take on debt, and could still fall out - but there's way less consumer risk.

[@bakeraus]

@@HipyoTech Even a extra badge for In Stock vendors would be great but only on keycap and keyboards. They would be to hit a high ratio of In Stock to get that badge. Just ideas

[@jish-jash]

Have to start somewhere. It's not a perfect system but it's a step in the right direction

[@HipyoTech]

One example would be Kineticlabs, I choose to work with them because they ONLY do in stock. Brands like that should have an "S" rating or something. Because I think fundamentally in stock is better than group buy for consumers. (I don't think anyone would disagree)@@bakeraus

[@hlsby]

There should be more clarification that this is predominantly based on GB’s. There is a grey area for in stock sales, just because a vendor doesn’t run the same amount of GBs as the biggest vendor in the hobby should not hinder their trust in the public eye for fulfilling regular peripheral in stock sales, just a small example. Also, an accountability system for the reviewers. Just a community members observation, don’t take this as an end all be all criticism, I appreciate the overall effort for making this and it is 100% a positive for us community members.

[@rmendisify]

This is a system designed to help you make a decision whether to join a GB from a vendor, based on their GB history. It doesn't really apply to in-stock sales, which are inherently lower risk because you can do chargebacks, although that is something we can consider in the future. Not sure what you mean by "accountability system for the reviewers"? There are no reviews of vendors, only ratings based on objective criteria as defined in the document. Appreciate the comment! =)

[@horchatablast9453]

Rama Works needs to be added as a failure immediately.

[@iLuvCats]

Spelled cannonkeys wrong in the doc

[@bakeraus]

Great to have something for vendors to work towards internally in their own business. Getting a Triple A will be a badge of honor and will get you more sales. Time for some hobby/industry clean up

[@theletterzyy]

hello part 2!

[@Zeraphor]

"...You don't need to know all the details. That's primarily for the admin group to determine the rating [...]." (17:31) I truly believe _rmendis_ is a respectable and well meaning member of the community but I can't be the only one getting an itch about this kind of behavior.

[@TaehaTypes]

I think he meant that in good faith as I agree its not something that the average customer probably cares for especially if theyre not deep into the hobby but to defend rmendis, he does explain the nuance shortly after I ask my question right after the timestamp!

[@rmendisify]

I meant that it's not necessarily needed for the casual consumer know the details of the GB limit calculations, but it's spelled out in great detail for those who are interested. It's certainly important to ensure that the rating criteria it objective, the data is as accurate as possible, and the contributing team is working in good faith. =)

[@whaaaat_scoobs]

Site not working. Also can you add the link in video description so we can just click it, I forgot what it was and had to go back and find it in the video so would just be easier, thanks.

[@leicaman]

URL is not working. Seems there was a conflict with a charity in the U.K. Is there an updated URL?

[@Draw3524]

Are "pre-orders" considered a Group Buy? I feel the terms are used interchangeable by some and define them as different. Or in the case of this system, is anything not in-stock considered as a GB?

[@AnaerobicFermentation]

Yes. He addressed this in the video.

[@DanielAlbortaBrooks]

It's covered in the doc but TL;DR: Yes pre-orders and also "Rolling Fullfillment" type sales are considered GBs for the sake of the rating system

[@nolanwolf1828]

As someone that has avoided GB's, i would like to see a section for how reliable they are if selling in-stock items. There are a lot of vendors that have a website but almost nothing to sell because everything is out of stock. Knowing something like that would be amazing

[@rmendisify]

How to handle in-stock items is something we are looking at. =)

[@ImOnMy116]

Definitely would welcome something on this, but at least with something in stock, presumably you’ll have a much easier time doing a chargeback if your in stock item doesn’t ship to you in a reasonable time frame.

[@GrandSekiza]

I think it would've been better in the noxary situation that people had spoken up more about it. I feel like no one had sent out any warnings or anything about him tbh.

[@mozaic]

There was a lot of people complaining, reddit mods didn't want to make a public announcement because they were focusing on this system SMH. Now time is ticking on certain Noxary orders for chargebacks

[@GrandSekiza]

@@mozaic I feel like I didn't see any of that tbh while he was starting up his gbs. Like why was no one reaching out to streamers telling them to be cautious about even remotely promoting him.

[@Callsign-Dingo-7]

On a side note, anyone happen to know where I can find the link to the discord MechMarket? Been looking around for it for a few weeks now but it seems to be well-hidden. My biggest hope was in the document as I read over it, but to no avail :P

[@OmniSzron]

This is like an MK neighbourhood watch. Unfortunately necessary for the hobby right now.

[@KeikoFire]

Kanata Keys is a terrible vendor. Waiting 2+ years on keycaps. No updates and ghosting.

[@SchwarzBruder]

My boy Taeha has really been out of it for a while...kinda lost of what it all meant lol

[@bananarama4925]

Yo🎉

[@iLuvCats]

8th

[@kennuimuffins2426]

5th

[@marxkeyboards]

First comment lets go

[@TaehaTypes]

first!

[@francisco.lizarraga]

what you guys think of the whole Rama Works drama not fulfilling orders and disabled comments on IG

[@TaehaTypes]

I dont think its been a secret theyve been not delivering on their promises and most likely checked out of the hobby years ago :(

[@thocctober]

bro can't even spell Cannon

[@rmendisify]

ikr, big fail