Keystone Bitcoin Only Firmware - Installation, Usage and Review (Cold Storage Hardware Wallet)

[@jpp59]

Nice that you have shown how to verify the dice roll. This is very important to not trust the hardware vendor and verify that the seed derivation is not falsified.

[@CryptoGuide]

For sure, it's great that it's so easily reproducible using a independent implementation like Ian Coleman's tool as well.

[@hireahitCA]

Speaking of trusting the company, the hardware validation thing? I remember some concerns about whether it could uniquely identify a user, the answer is no, if you scan their validation code with two devices you get the same validation code back. I’ve been meaning to check that, and happened to have two Keystone Pros at the same time. If you’re especially paranoid, still use Tor to protect your IP.

[@jpp59]

@@hireahitCA no, here is to verify that the seed calculation based on the dice entropy is not falsified. It has been seen in wallet (especially the web ones) simulating dice or mouse entropy generation but in fact was using some pseudo random generator. Hacker could monitor all wallet available with the pseudo random generator. So here we can have a zero trust. We first verify with a dry run with dices, the seed is matching with ian coleman page. Then we can generate the real seed with a new set of dice roll

[@CryptoGuide]

Great question. I just tested this out with two Keystone devices, one Keystone Essential and one Keystone Pro. (The Pro running BTC only firmware) Both gave the same authentication code, so this demonstrates that the code produces isn't unique to the device in any way. Would be easy to do the verification on any random PC to avoid disclosing anything about your system or network.

[@edwardmelick1542]

Dude, your comparison table is excellent. Thanks so much for that.

[@edwardmelick1542]

Can you get a Keystone Essential with a Bitcoin only option?

[@CryptoGuide]

Thanks, glad the spreadsheet helps. Yes you can install the BTC only firmware on the Keystone essential.

[@dzidmail]

@@CryptoGuide In the spreadsheet it says Keystone Bitcoin only firmware is good for multi coin. AV, AW columns. Seems like a mistake.

[@CryptoGuide]

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[@magicinternetmoney8715]

Also… if I buy a keystone, I will 100% use your affiliate link dude. You make the most useful videos on KZbin

[@CryptoGuide]

Thanks :)

[@martinlutherkingjr.5582]

In theory is it more secure to transmit psbts via QR than micro sd cards (that are reused) since it’s truly air gapped? Or is there some benefit to microSD I’m missing?

[@CryptoGuide]

Not really, you could theoretically attack a device through either a malformed QR code or something targeted and malicious in the MicroSD card. The main advantage of microSD is that you can more easily do your signing in a geographically distributed way. The main advantage of QR codes is that they are really easy to work with if using a phone as your wallet software.

[@WRECKTUM662]

Just recently found your channel and love your content, thanks for helping me educate myself! I was wondering, is trustless seed generation with dice only available on the BTC only firmware or both? I really want to generate my own seed but don't have an offline only computer so I'm considering an ellipal joy (I'm not aware of any other seed generators that are trustless) but if I can save the money to throw at BTC instead of prefer that

[@CryptoGuide]

Thanks, glad it helps. Yes the ability to use dice is available in both firmware options. The best option is to just verify the dice function as I show on the video or in a written format here blog.keyst.one/how-to-verify-the-recovery-phrase-created-by-dice-rolling-af01c16b765e The system doesn't need to be offline, as you can generate a test seed first to verify that everything behaves as it should, then just use the Keystone only for generating the actual seed that you will use.

[@IHFarmer2007]

I just found your channel and so far its very informative. I’m trying to get my bitcoin off the exchange for some time so I’ve been trying to figure out which hard wallet I need. I feel like the keystone is simpler to operate and can do so with a smart phone vs a trezor…... I’m somewhat tech savvy but I feel like this keystone is easier for me to watch/understand to use. What hard wallet would you recommend for a noob?

[@CryptoGuide]

Keystone or Ledger are certain more newbie friendly than a Trezor :)

[@TALKCalgary]

You weren't exaggerating about the benefits of this wallet. After watching your review I purchased the Keystone Pro and although I didn't spend much time using it in multi coin mode, after switching out the firmware to Bitcoin only I found it to be an excellent balance between security and ease of use. Infact, the only wallet I feel comes close to the keystone is the Cold Card Mk3 which I also like - other than having to mess around swapping micro SD cards that is. Last but not least, thanks for all the work you are putting into your channel it really is much appreciated.

[@CryptoGuide]

Yea it's certainly impressive once you ditch the multi-coin firmware. :) Also glad to hear that the channel is helpful :)

[@colinb175]

Thank you for giving useful information. For your kindess, I upgraded into BTC-only Firmware and imported into Bluewallet. So i was moving my btcs from keystone to (imported)bluewallet. The problem i met was transaction unconfirmed. Unlike other hardwallets, Keystone does not provide RBF service. Is there any way to reverse/cancel transaction or should i just wait?

[@CryptoGuide]

Keystone supports RBF just fine as long as you enable it in the software interface you are using. If you check your transaction on a block explorer, can you see whether RBF was enabled? (Or did your transaction include a change output that came back to your wallet?)

[@lovestoflyA380]

do you have a preferred webcam to use to scan the Keystone? no matter how i orient the device or adjust the brightness it never seems to want to focus, using my android phone is fine though -

[@CryptoGuide]

If the webcam won't auto focus, try holding some paper with some text on it over the Keystone screen so that it auto focuses at the correct distance, then remove it to scan the QR.

[@daslolo]

they could have used the screen capacitance and the video camera and (for the pro) the fingerprint reader to increase entropy. maybe they do

[@CryptoGuide]

True, but you can just use dice :)

[@AlBarathur]

I don't like smartphones, is it possible to run the sync app for the keystone on a tablet? Or are there any hardware wallets that have screen and camera and can operate on their own without the need for a smartphone? I feel cheated by having purchased this wallet and now it seems I need also to buy a smartphone just to serve the wallet.

[@CryptoGuide]

For Bitcoin, if you are using the Bitcoin only firmware then you can just use something like Electrum, spectre, etc. For things like Eth, you can stick with the multi-coin firmware and use it with Metamask.

[@Xray007_]

I can import a 24 word seed phrase and a passphrase wallet that i created on a keystone to any other hardware wallet?

[@CryptoGuide]

Yep, any that uses BIP39

[@Xray007_]

@@CryptoGuide like trezor and ledger? What about ngrave? Did u test ngrave zero? Will u review the ngrave zero? And maybe compare it to the keystone pro?

[@CryptoGuide]

Yep, they all follow the same standard. That said, the ngrave doesn't follow established standards at all, so I would avoid it like the plague.

[@Xray007_]

@@CryptoGuide thank u bro

[@Xray007_]

@@CryptoGuide one more q. Can i use the dice creation for keystone pro on the normal firmware? Not the only btc

[@Mikeshakurs]

I really liked your video should I get the keystone pro or the keystone 3 pro ?

[@CryptoGuide]

Basically the Keystone Pro is currently the more polished device, but will only get updates for about the next 18 months. The Keystone 3 is a totally new platform and doesn't have feature parity yet, but should theoretically be better supported over the long term.

[@Mikeshakurs]

@@CryptoGuide ahh ok thanks then I will get the 3 then

[@Mikeshakurs]

@@CryptoGuide one question though but is it possible to make the keystone pro last longer then 18 months?

[@CryptoGuide]

Oh for sure, the original Keystone Pro will keep working for a while after this, especially with third party wallets, it just won't get any updates, fixes or features

[@Mikeshakurs]

@@CryptoGuide ok cool so I’ll be fine getting the keystone pro

[@magicinternetmoney8715]

Thanks for the video my man. I just got a couple of questions: 1. What is the advantage of Bitcoin-only firmware over multi-coin? Is it just a matter of security (since a simpler firmware = less bugs and smaller attack surface)? 2. How do you find the keystone wallet? I’ve been eyeing this wallet for a while to spread my funds over multiple hardware wallets. Haven’t pulled the trigger yet because the keystone does not have a lot of social proof. How do you find it? Worth the price and better than a bitbox02?

[@CryptoGuide]

1) Basically it comes down to attack service and this happens in two ways. Firstly, you are running less code for other altcoins, have less regular firmware updates to manage, etc. Less functionality means less opportunity to find a mistake to exploit... Secondly it relates to how hardware wallets handle multiple coins. There was a bit of drama last year when some folk got all upset about "path isolation" on different hardware wallets and the way that this makes it possible to have someone thinking they are signing something like a lightcoin transaction when actually they are signing one for Bitcoin. (Due to malicious wallet software) Basically, no matter how your slice it, path isolation is far from perfect and best avoided entirely if you have substantial holdings. 2) The keystone is basically the relaunch of the Cobo Vault like which had a pretty good reputation. The Bitbox02 is also a fantastic product, also available as a Bitcoin-only varient. The main advantage of the Bitbox02 over the Cobo is that it makes it easier to have multiple Bitcoin accounts on a single device, whereas (at least if you exclude multisig) the Keystone limits you to two at this time. (One segwit and one native segwit) Honestly the choice between the two would come down to which form factor your prefer and whether you want to use it on mobile. (As the Bitbox02 can work on Android, but if you are on iOS you are limited to something like the Keystone) You may also find SLIP39 useful and that is only available on the Keystone.

[@magicinternetmoney8715]

@@CryptoGuide interesting read. Thank you 🙏

[@CryptoGuide]

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[@BeeJoe25]

Have you tried the Foundation Passport (now on batch 2)? This seems comparable. I'd be interested in your analysis if you were to review the Passport.

[@CryptoGuide]

It's basically just a coldcard with a camera at a higher price.

[@CryptoGuide]

Did a video on the passport here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGqogYt5f7yHeJI

[@rydmerlin]

So it didn’t wipe when you flashed the firmware but would it have shown your balance if you had had one?

[@CryptoGuide]

Flashing the BTC-Only firmware doesn't wipe your seed. (I just did so to demo some stuff) Basically the Keystone Mobile companion app uses P2SH-Segwit (So addresses starting with a 3), so if you used it with something like Electrum for this wallet type, you would see the same balance as you did in the official companion app.

[@fracto2655]

right next to the receiving address you have the word change with a different address. what is that address for?

[@CryptoGuide]

Where in the video are you talking about? (Timestamp would be helpful)

[@fracto2655]

@@CryptoGuide in minute 4:40 you show the screen where below the the word receiving you have your bitcoin address, and right next to the word receiving you have the word change and below that a different address. what is that address for?

[@CryptoGuide]

Ah riteo, good question. Basically with Bitcoin your wallet will generate two different sets of addresses. One set will be those that are shown when you chose to receive funds, the other will be "change" addresses that are automatically used when you send a transaction. The mechanics of how change works are covered well here: en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change

[@fracto2655]

@@CryptoGuide interesting, but confusing at the same time. lets see if i got this right. if i have 1 btc in a receiving address, and i want to send you 0.5 btc, that means 0.5 btc will be sent to you and the remaining 0.5 btc will go to my change address to then go back to my original receiving address?

[@CryptoGuide]

The funds never return back to your original address, they stay at the change address.

[@TheSpringbok747]

Thanks for the excellent videos you're posting! What is your opinion on the following: I have a Cobo Vault Pro which can no longer be updated. Keystone offered a 50% purchase discount for people who bought from Cobo this last year but I am undecided if I would want to purchase a new one right away. With the Chinese government banning use of crypto currencies, what are the chances and implications that a company like Keystone, who's based in China, will not be able to issue firmware updates in the future?

[@CryptoGuide]

Firstly, China has been banning Bitcoin about twice per year for the last 5 years, so nothing new to see there. You should also check whether you are entitled to a full refund from Cobo, as you might be entitled to both that and the 50% off for a keystone. That said, you could also continued to use a Cobo with Bitcoin only firmware for at least a year or two yet with no issues, so no rush.

[@TheSpringbok747]

@@CryptoGuide Thanks for the prompt response. I only found out about the Cobo refund a few weeks ago. I immediately submitted the application but a few days later, the Chinese government forbid all crypto transactions. Since the refund should go to my TRC20-USDT account, Cobo may not be able to do the refund. So far, I have not had any response/refund.

[@CryptoGuide]

That sucks. That said, the question of whether a company faces risk from the jurisdiction in which they are based is a risk no matter what you get. The key thing that it highlights it he importance of having a device can either still work, or easily recover, even if they vendor were to completely close without any warning tomorrow.

[@TheSpringbok747]

Good news, Cobo finally refunded the full purchase amount (in USDT). This is actually good customer care. Also, I can purchase Keystone version with 50% discount. It turns out to be good luck after all.

[@CryptoGuide]

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[@BillyJakeBulda]

sir can you do a video about derivation path

[@CryptoGuide]

What do you mean, what is the actual issue that you are having?

[@BillyJakeBulda]

@@CryptoGuide when i import my seedphrase in tangem my asset is not there and the recieving address is different , can i change the derivation path for tangem to access my asset?

[@CryptoGuide]

There are a few issues here. Firstly, any seed that you have imported into the Tangem is now hot... So you have undermined any benefit that the Keystone provided in keeping things offline... Secondly, while Tangem uses the default derivation path for Bitcoin Native Segwit, it only uses the first address and doesn't increment it. (So if you use your Keystone with something like Sparrow, you will see that the Tangem only ever gives you the first address) Basically the issue here is that Tangem sucks as a Bitcoin device.

[@goldenratio183]

Can ledger and trezor be trusted?

[@CryptoGuide]

I don't think that there is any particular reason why not to, but their devices also don't force you to do so either. (Depending on how you set them up and use them)

[@goldenratio183]

@@CryptoGuide Thankyou! The fact that trezor is open source does this eliminate the chance of a back door?

[@CryptoGuide]

Not entirely in that it also means that's it's impossible to verify if your hardware and firmware are actually legit. (Unless you built the device yourself) That said, using your own entropy and verifying the derivation, etc, can also be done on just about any hardware wallet.

[@goldenratio183]

@@CryptoGuide Many thanks for your help! great channel!

[@CryptoGuide]

Glad it helped

[@huangfengye]

can't change back to multi coin fw???😂

[@CryptoGuide]

Nope, it's a one way trip

[@gadgetsngizmosgalore-z4g]

Bought one of these in September. Turned one twice now won’t turn on at all. New batteries. Cleaned it. Nothing! Definitely needing help getting it fixed and then I will NOT be using this POS

[@CryptoGuide]

I have a few of these and have never had an issue. Suggest you contact support and get a replacement.