Keystone North America Review: An Ecosystem of a Down

[@JamesOrr1987]

The multi-reviewer format is excellent and doing exactly what people want from reviewer's: points and counter points that they can contrast against their own to figure out if a game would likely be or not be one they would want to try. I love hearing multiple views, it adds more good with zero downside. I also appreciate the effort considering I assume it takes more coordination and organization to have multiple people on a review. I also loved Tom's casual and smooth phone fatality!

[@thelumberginger163]

"An Ecosystem of a Down" = pure gold. I'm loving whoever is writing these titles lately!

[@adamdrabek6246]

Seems like a Chris Yi thing for sure

[@hypnotoad55]

hmmm - I wonder who??

[@andrewellis712]

@@hypnotoad55 all glory to the hypnotoad

[@JamesOrr1987]

I also appreciate the Mike DiLisio Solo experience perspective included on some of the reviews. Really adds value.

[@angelafortunato3866]

A 2nd Edition has just been announced that changes that game to 1-2 players and fixes issues from feedback that was given. I'm excited to try this new 2nd edition. It should be crowdfunding soon in 2024.

[@TheRetroMachineTV]

Yes I too will be interested to see the changes! I didn’t buy this but am open to the new edition.

[@desireerudolph5992]

Really like this multiple-reviewer format. The lively discussion with point/view and counter point/view is really helpful.

[@Leiderg]

Huh? This made me think the seals of approval can't be trusted, if you see future printing of this showing it, people will not know it's only for a SP review from Mike, while Tom and Camilla actually gave it bad reviews. There needs to be a different Seal for SP maybe?

[@BrandonGraham]

Knowing how it plays is definitely the most important part of the video, but it is also super helpful to see the quality of components that we will be playing with.

[@hamakakun]

im loving this new style of reviewing where you put 2 extremes of reviewer giving opinion the same product as people might lean towards an opinion instead of the other. This way viewer cab accurately align their decision before pulling the trigger.

[@jasonpmathew]

Really loving the multi-reviews. Sometimes I watch a video I normally wouldn’t just because there are multiple opinions.

[@shadowling1478]

my cousin did art on this game!!!

[@DarthPizza777]

i love the way you guys are doing reviews now. Not just one person but as a group

[@booner29]

I was at GrandCon yesterday and this game was a hit. It was rented from the library a lot and the BG vendors mentioned people were buying it immediately after playing it. I bought it and my table all loved it. Probably a 7 for me.

[@montyfarris]

I was a bit worried, but just played a 2 player game with my wife and we both enjoyed it. Is there hate drafting/discarding potential cards the other may need, yeah(Sagrada can be just as mean). Maybe we weren't as mean to each other as we should've been. Final score 65-65(I won owning one more synergy point than she had)

[@mmmmatthewwww]

Wow I've been trying to design a game using the same market + grid scoring system as this game, and have encountered the same issues Tom and Camilla are describing. Thanks for helping me playtest Dice Tower lol.

[@bigg3110]

Have you considered taking an average of the scores and then giving it a seal based on that with Tom's Hammer at the end? I miss Tom's final judgement 😂

[@BOHDominator]

I actually thought this was better than calico. The puzzle in this game is trying to maximise your personal goal card score, and maximise 1-3 of your rows/columns for scoring but it's impossible to score every row and column well so it's about making the best out of what you can. It's very possible to score 0 on a row but sometimes just getting a few points on a row could really get you the win. 4 seems a harsh score. I don't thi k the game gets less fun it just gets more puzzley

[@blankname-pw3sk]

Maybe it's time to add Seal of Approval for Solo, like kids approved?

[@taterjoe]

I love the title! Could not stop giggling!

[@VickyLu1]

Played it multiplayer tonight and unfortunately did not enjoy it for the reasons mentioned in the video. However I’m interested in trying it solo!

[@hunorheim2766]

8 out of 10 from me as well. Absolutely wonderful solo game.

[@kchorst5037]

Good points, now I'm wondering why keystones weren't reserved for 1s and 5s since 2-4 are more versatile.

[@LouisChora]

Nice tagline. Chris' musical taste shining through :)

[@michaeldilisio557]

Chris doesn’t get the credit for this one! 😁

[@DTChrisYi]

​@@michaeldilisio557 Credit where credit is due. Mike named it after Tom's favorite band 😛

[@theguitarexplorium]

@@michaeldilisio557 proving that us 'old' guys are still down with the cool kids! 🤘

[@nshaw1299]

Actually, for Mike's review it was more like an interstate love song by the keystone temple pilots...

[@DannyvanHolten]

Casually flipping the phone of the table because it lights up ... + 10 points :P

[@jameskirk4692]

Thank you.

[@Trae_Lenox]

I played this once and enjoyed it at 4. I disagree with most of the criticism unless you are OCD and are trying to get perfection on your board, because that ain’t happening.

[@flawed1]

Me as soon as I saw that one of the actions was discarding several cards from the row: Nope!.... nope nope Also, will you require them to specify that the seal of approval is only for solo mode if they put it on the box?

[@Hieronymus-Pseudonymous]

Perhaps there should be a "Solo of Approval?"

[@HEMAYATC]

Tom continues to knock phones off the table! 8:48

[@TheClyd3Man]

He's too popular and people keep calling. 😆

[@abesapien9930]

How did this get a Seal of Approval? They gave it an average rating of 5.33 out of 10! (4+4+8=16. 16/30=5.33/10.)

[@thedicetower]

Because the seal of approval can be given by any reviewer. What if a reviewer at the Dice Tower hated a game and gave it a "1"? Then no other reviewer's opinion would matter.

[@abesapien9930]

@@thedicetower So it's the Seal of Approval of one reviewer, not the Seal of Approval of the Dice Tower. It's a very misleading reward. Depending on how many reviewers you have, it's probably not hard to find one reviewer that likes it, even if it is an objectively bad game. On boardgamegeek, I can always find a random reviewer that will give a "10" for a game that hundreds of others will give a "1" for! Your system does not capture any kind of consensus at your company.

[@dailyminutesofpeace]

@@abesapien9930 Well, there is a difference. We have at max eight reviewers. These are reviewers who play a TON of games. We do NOT give out the seal willy nilly. In fact, you can find THOUSANDS of games we have panned.

[@ryandriver3076]

I don't understand how it gets a seal of approval with an agg. score of 5.3? Maybe you need a different seal for Solo ratings? Somebody buying this solely based on the seal and intending for multiplayer may get a nasty shock!

[@kjerins]

Seals are based on the highest score, not an average. And if you buy games solely based on seals or other awards, then any misses are 100% on you.

[@dbungart3044]

Mike “kickstarter” Dilisio back in action baby.

[@bagookster]

Love this new format, as I’ve said before…. But based on Tom and Camilla’s scores, how does this get a dice tower approved logo…. That’ll get put on the box and promoted by the publisher….

[@rebeljonny]

It only needs one reviewer to give it that score for any of the approved or excellence seals.

[@pauldenie]

@@rebeljonny Time for a separate "Solo" approval/excellence seal, like they have for kids games.

[@eliseh.2152]

Yep, seeing that happen in more reviews. I know they said the person who liked it the most would be doing the review by themselves before, so it would always have gotten a seal of approval. But I'm fairly sure that the last few weeks there have been more games that are getting seals of approval/excellence. But other than that, I love the format of this as well.

[@DannyvanHolten]

@@rebeljonny Mike didn't play the multiplayer game at all though ... that's a huge oversight imho.

[@mgk2020]

@@eliseh.2152 Maybe games are getting better. Also, they've changed the threshold in the past to reduce the number of seals, so if Tom feels it's out of balance, he'll probably address it.

[@karldoughty7996]

For some reason, with all the negative comments about the grid, I couldn't help thinking of Sagrada. As you get to the end of the game you HAVE to take useless cards/dice. Not fun in my opinion. I think I'll be giving this one a miss, thanks.

[@TiagoSousa026]

I think you should start doing an average of the scores and give the seal based on that. Although I also understand your way of giving seals I am just afraid that could be misleading to the "common" consumers that see a Dice Tower seal and don't know that only one rating is enough but this is also true for media groups. But I as said I understand your way one opinion is so valid as the others. I just think by doing the average it could be more representative but also the game doesn't need to please everyone.

[@thedicetower]

We aren't going to do this. Our Dice Tower FAQ explains why.

[@TiagoSousa026]

@@thedicetower Like I said I understand and I don't mind, just giving my opinion. 🙂

[@Poiuytrew.Q]

My opinion is doing an average would be too much work. If other people from the Dice Tower were to review it then the scores would have change and then there would be update videos and more work and less time to do reviews on other games or other videos/projects.

[@NormalTheBand]

That would not make sense in the context of this review. Speaking as someone who has played it both way, the game IS actively a bad game played multiplayer but an excellent experience solo. It deserves its seal approval.... with the context that it should only be solo

[@HEMAYATC]

I really appreciate that title

[@Jimunu]

The title forced me to click

[@NOWTabletoping]

I think this game needs to be played by you guys a few more times and come at it from an altered mindset, try getting the goals and some of the numbers in a row, but don't try to solve it as a puzzle, the points from the goals are high but if you can also get some numbers in order while doing that you will get some extra points. I think you need to play this game some more and try some different strategies and takes on the game I would have given this game a 7.75, it does have flaws but I don't think it's anywhere near a 4. But I understand everyone has there own opinions, but I feel like if you play it more you might see the greatness of this game

[@thedicetower]

Can't this be said every time we don't enjoy a game? Why doesn't anyone ever say when we enjoy a game that we should play it a couple more time so that we see that it really sucks?

[@cthulwho8197]

In the gaming circles I move in if a game isn't enjoyable from game 1 it's never going to be seen again. There'd just two much competition from the thousands of other games released every year. Designing a game that takes half a dozen, or more, plays before you get it is a poor design choice in the current climate. Gaming time is limited for most people, and asking players to sign away multiple gaming days to play your game until they finally "get it" is a massive ego trip for a designer.

[@traceyshenanigans]

I understand that you are trying to change up the reviewing system but I have to say I am not a fan. I miss hearing Mike's solo voice on his own and I definitely miss Zee's target system. Yes, sometimes its fun to hear different voices, but I feel as I'm missing some voices that get diluted in a multi-reviewer review.

[@bigg3110]

Interesting I think Zee and Mike in particular thrive from reviewing with other people. Whereas Tom is the best lone reviewer in the business so feel sad to lose that.

[@MyKonaRC]

Bummer, game looks cool, plays like bingo. :( Keystone: North America Bingo

[@rexology_bg]

Sounds like this game has one thing I like and one I strongly dislike in this type of game. When there are larger game objectives and personal objectives, I much prefer that there is not synergy between them. I enjoy pattern games where you actively have to decide a direction, rather than just do everything. The part I dislike is open information games where an effective decision requires you to study another player's board state. I'd rather have multiplayer solitaire with a memory element that having to look over other players' shoulders. As far as ratings, perhaps a DT solo seal of approval? Seems like having a full seal on this might be misleading.

[@rexology_bg]

...than having to look over other players' shoulders...not that.

[@MythicosQc74]

I'm pushing back on Mike saying "pushing back" every other sentence ;-)

[@michaeldilisio557]

I’m pushing back on your pushing back.

[@DTChrisYi]

​@@michaeldilisio557 Sounds like a Lamaze class in here.

[@scottmcfarlane7524]

is it just me or is kinda a foodies reskin?