KH2's Final Mix Update was Groundbreaking | KH Talks

[@kangdide]

imagine being a Japanese kid in 2007 who's playing final mix for the first time and now all the abilities are all mixed up, enemies are different colors, there's this new form, and now you have to actually fight Roxas instead of a cutscene. Must have been a wild experience to go though

[@ZeroAoAnimations]

Yo, thats me wts

[@Icarus975]

Zero-Ao Animations ohhh you grew up in Japan experiencing that?

[@ZeroAoAnimations]

@@Icarus975 yeh, my younger sister was toying with my cds *not that i even store the safely in the first place* so i had to buy another copy, so instead i bought 2fm

[@archieprime]

It was

[@TobyKBTY]

Yeah man, at that point in my teenage life KH2 was already in my top games ever. Imagine my shock when clips started circulating online of things like the data battles or the Roxas fight with actual gameplay. My jaw literally dropped and I've never wanted to play something as much as that

[@Trebxable]

dude everyone always talks about kh2fm but nobody talks about kh2am

[@darkususer]

What about kh2pm

[@totallyfakeaccount1107]

It’s a reference to radio boardcasting transmissions. The two most common forms of radio transmissions are AM and FM. AM came first in the early 1900s then FM was invented in 1933.

[@nesoukkefka1741]

Clever little sneak !!

[@FryIronicMemeFace]

@@darkususer kh2am in the pm

[@SynergyxVeNN]

Kh2am is the vanilla experience. We not down with the vanilla.

[@connorbagheri]

“Dad, why is my sister’s name Rose?” “Because your mother loves roses.” “Thanks Dad.” “No problem KH2FMSephirothfight.”

[@zigsynx5364]

Now do the joke with Yozora

[@ChronoPaladin91]

It's a bit of a stretch, but don't forget that Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories also came bundled with KH2FM (PS2) when it launched in Japan in 2007. They gave you an additional remade game for free (whether you liked it or not). This is not a common practice anymore. I know this didn't enhance KH2FM directly, but it made the purchase have even greater value! (Yes, outside of Japan Re:CoM was later sold separately, but it was still initially packaged with KH2FM (PS2).)

[@lpfan4491]

And now it is packaged with KH1 FM. Nice

[@blueb_oy]

Yea, I remember when I bought my copy! It is labeled as KH2FM+. The "+" being for the additional Re:Chain of Memories (PS2) copy in the case.

[@lpfan4491]

@@blueb_oy Now I finally know why later releases dropped the plus in the title.

[@blueb_oy]

@@lpfan4491 yea :D. Pretty neat, in my opinion. It was 2007 and I was 12 when I bought KH2FM+ and ill never forget the struggle/stress that my dad and I had to go through to jailbreak my English PS2 to play KH2FM+. Swap Magic V2 ftw.

[@calvinanderson4245]

And now, Squeenix drones will scream "ENTITLED GAMERGATERS!" at anyone who says "why am I being charged for an arbitrarily cut part of the game?" God, I miss the old days.

[@infamouskent7243]

That third nobody battle in the garden of remembrance made me fully understand my combos and timing to a different degree

[@dartheory4423]

You mean Assemblance?

[@benripa3488]

I tried so hard to get through that part at level 50, but 6 hours later I gave up. Was a lot nicer coming back at 99.

[@infamouskent7243]

Ben Ripa tried it at like level 65 and it took me like 5 days

[@blackghostcat]

That fight actually broke me at crit level 1. I haven't had the same taste in my mouth since. (Like legit quit playing it after I beat it) (took like 2 weeks) but I've been having a good time with the vanitas mod.

[@kevinmay9151]

@@blackghostcat HOOO BOY I FEEL THAT. I don't understand how people don't use peter pan for that fight

[@luxraygaming2300]

One of my few gripes with 2 Fm is that Two Become One is my absolute favorite keyblade design of all time, but once you get final form, all it does is hinder you by forcing you into anti form.

[@ScarletMomiji]

I love that fact sometimes because antiform is the almost infinite combo you wish you had with horizontal slash? in midair during berserk charge. 😆

[@Jyukenmaster95]

The devs clearly changed their "antiform is a punishment" mindset with Rage Form in KH3. I think if KH2FM had made anti-form more optimal, it'd have been great. Like, nobody HAS to use the berserk charge + horizontal combo, but it's a tool that's there if you later realize that it works on Xigbar. If there was one or two key scenarios where antiform was the answer, it'd make Two Become One worth it.

[@amconners]

100% agree. Though you can always equip it /on/ Final Form, it still hinders you by effectively having no ability at that point, but not as much as not being able to use drives.

[@lpfan4491]

I honestly wish two become one would retain its ability to make it luckbased forever and that antiform wasn't as trash as it is. It is supposed to be risk vs. reward, while it is mostly just risk. Rageform has the opposite problem that it is just reward and the biggest risk of it is that it does not scale with the content much, so it becomes somewhat mediocre at the end of the game.

[@nightdazernoneya7993]

The sad thing is- BBS was going to be on PS2 and run on a similar engine to KH2...however, they were forced into promoting the new PSP and they had to adjust the game to work on it, neutering what could have been an amazing game.

[@majine.2606]

Were they forced to? I thought it was because Osaka Team was prioritizing Re: Chain of Memories, and by the time they were done with that project, Square Enix decided the PS2 was too old to develop for anymore. And being honest, I can't fault them that decision, mainly since BBS probably wouldn't have released until 2009. Not a prime time for a big budget release for that platform.

[@avalanchemkii7506]

@@majine.2606 The Chain of Memories Remake by Osaka Team was actually included with the Japanese release of 2FM, so it was completed at the same time. They mainly moved on because of both the PS2's age, as well as the Crisis Core engine facilitating BBS' combat decently enough.

[@kevinmay9151]

Is it really that much of a let down? Like I honestly don't look into the BBS criticism too much but this comment really feels like you're just saying it's bad because it's a PSP game. Ik that there are more gripes with BBS but like I'm sorry it's not kh2fm.

[@BradsGonnaPlay]

@@kevinmay9151 it is bad because it was made for PSP though, and I even say that as someone who loved the game. Putting it on objectively worse hardware and making 3 separate 10 hour campaigns was an insanely bold move and it didn’t pay off in terms of story or gameplay.

[@roccosmos1913]

if every dlc was this good , ea would be the best company - dunkey

[@devonm042690]

2FM's Critical Mode was balanced around a level 1 run. That's why there was a boosted damage factor. Other games that followed suit with level 1 runs and Critical Mode weren't properly balanced with a level 1 run in mind. Especially DDD. There are no stat boosting items for Sora or Riku. In a level 1 run, your dream eaters fought for you instead of with you. Your attack was your starting strength plus your weapon attack plus a maximum of 3 bonus attack points. Your magic and defense stats were your starting stats plus a maximum of 3 bonus points. Bonus points came from the spirits in your party.

[@dmas7749]

2FM Level 1 is a fun and interesting challenge DDD underlevelled is something i'd not wish on my worst enemy

[@kinggamer19]

I'm really digging the clips in between to show examples, damn fine work 😎✨🌟

[@megasoniczxx]

I think what really helps 2FM stand out is that all of it's content was added throughout the game instead of being backloaded to the post game and the fact that, like you said, the base game already had a very solid framework to go off of when so the changes just naturally fit in. Like, if you were a person that didn't like base KH3 but loves everything in remind, your options are to just play the DLC and never touch the base game again instead of the base game getting a good touch up with more things to do and better designed encounters. It doesn't really help that base KH3 (heck, even KH3 now) still has a lot of basic design flaws that keep it from being definitively better than its predecessor.

[@andreyamane8892]

Dude, f*cking Roxas fight, they added an awesome fight to the main story instead of just pushing everything to the post game. All of the mushrooms are there since the first time you beat each world, absent silhouettes are there to act as sidequests, you can enter CoR very early on. And in Re:Mind I'm stuck in lv 6x crit because I didn't know (probably should've suspected but oh well) there was no grinding in the DLC

[@That-Other-Dan]

@@andreyamane8892 You can at least return to the main story to grind even from a DLC save file by pressing square on the save file, but I get what you mean

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

@@andreyamane8892 to be fair the roxas fight was obviously always supposed to be there but wasn't in vanilla, probably for production reasons (and so was limit form, texture files are in disc). but yeah KH3 REALLY needed some absent silhouettes.

[@TFSned]

Remind was definitely designed so you could experience all the new stuff without having to start a new save file. There's pros and cons to this, but I would have preferred more added to the base game since the KH games are so fun to replay through. The new combo finishers make a massive difference to how good the combat feels though.

[@heroicgangster9981]

Also when it comes to my thoughts of how 2FM stands over the other expanded versions even Remind. I feel 2FM embraces the entire base of KH2 and just allows it to expand beyond itself entirely. While something like Remind or BBS fm (kh1fm sorta excluded to me) feels like an add-on that allows more options but at one point sacrifices something in compensation for something else. BBS trying out more hardcore bosses but not embracing the full capabilities of the command deck system and other possibilities for secret bosses and Remind stripping down the party aspect post game to allow for more controllable gameplay for Sora without the attraction flows, member limits, and party finisher rng. KH3 base game in story and post game straight up feel like different ball games that vaguely connect with each other. Though I guess it fits into the circumstance of Sora being disconnected from his friends physically but being able to at least connect with others for summoning so that’s neat.

[@thereptiliani27]

I would say the leap from KH1-J to KHFM is almost as substantial as the leap from KH2-Eng to KH2FM, as Japan didn't get all the superbosses and content that NA (can't recall the EU release very well) did

[@RaverRacer]

EU had everything except xemnas

[@thereptiliani27]

@@RaverRacer ah, so the same as the NA release, gotcha

[@casualvanilla]

It's a jump, but not quite as big as KH2FM. The only real additions are three extra bosses, an extra difficulty mode (Japan only had Normal) and Night on Bald Mountain. There are some level design changes (a Trinity in Twilight Town requires you to hit open a barrel instead of opening a chest), but they're very minor. KH1 to KH1FM is a bigger jump.

[@SushiGhost97]

Really digging kh talks, keep em up man

[@Caraviaggio]

this is so true, I played kh2 when I was a kid, didn't understand shit, finished without even knowing sephirot or final form were a thing, then years later played the fm on ps3 and was blown away with the content that had been added. Thanks for the insight, I now understand many things

[@insertnamehere2746]

Sephiroth and final fom are in the original game tho

[@kevinmay9151]

@@insertnamehere2746 there’s just not enough incentive to do those things, and quite frankly I found vanilla kh2 overrated when I played it on ps2, not that it doesn’t have it’s merits, it just wasn’t interesting what so ever. Kh1 call it janky, was interesting and even with its basic combos was a very nice challenge for Olympus coliseum and extra bosses and interesting ideas was what held my attention.

[@insertnamehere2746]

@@kevinmay9151 bro there are 8 olympus tournaments in KH2, two of them being that you can use drives quite frequently so why the hell wouldnt you use final form. It's not like Final Form in vanilla is fundamentally different than in final mix. And no incentive to fight Sephiroth? It's fucking sephiroth for christs sake and unlike vanilla kh1 you actually get a keyblade for beating him in vkh2

[@amalanparty]

I'm one of those people who still haven't played KH2FM. With my PS3 dead and no reason in getting a PS4 for just one game, or a set in this case for the collection, all I have with me is the base KH2 game, but seeing all this info put together really shows how much I've been missing out on it.

[@astupidlylongnamethatstoolong]

If you dont mind emulators, you can still try it with pcsx2 and downloading one

[@DarkusFireBlaze3582]

I remember watching KH2FM videos when it was still stuck on the PS2. The amount of content they added was staggering and I had no idea how much I wanted to use Limit Form or fight Roxas.

[@somebakedgood]

Just get an Xbox and then get game pass for like $1 5head

[@TheNja09]

18:05 I've been playing randomizer too much, and this image gives me a big dopamine rush

[@ron4538]

is this my college intro course to KH2 and KH2 fm analysis? wow this is my favorite class.

[@mattsully2238]

I love kh2fm incentive loop. You love the story, we got you. You want more, try hades cup, want more, try data fights, want more try lingering will. And then lingering will was so tough that my lvl 99 ultimate weapon and 4 full bloom + wasn't getting it done. The game draws you step by step to achieve mastery. Great stuff.

[@insertnamehere2746]

Hades cup was in base KH2

[@mattsully2238]

Well yeah, but then the rest

[@DiscountYT]

1:39 “we kinda have to talk about parallel universes”

[@GanonAutumn777]

Goofy's goofga wheel limit just eats through bosses's hp like nothing else in vanilla kh2

[@SteelPokemonFan]

Something I love about the puzzle pieces that I feel is somwhat understated is that even if your growth abilities aren't as high enough to jump>double jump>glide to them, then you might still have ways of reaching them just by thinking outside the box and using game knowledge, like the clip you showed using Valor to get up a ledge by attacking. There are two in particular I remember doing that felt awesome to pull off. 1. In the Curly Hill room in Halloween Town, there's a puzzle piece that's really high up and far away from the hill. You might be able to get it during the Prison Keeper boss fight, but I did it a different way. When you come back to the area soon after, there will be some Wight Knights and Driller Moles. After clearing a few waves of them out, some Emerald Blues will spawn. By getting those Emerald Blues to low HP without killing them, you can then deliberately get hit by their massive tornado attack to fling you high into the air, throwing you straight up towards the puzzle piece. 2. In the Encampment room in The Land of Dragons, there's a Sunset puzzle piece in the corner that most people get by climbing up a watchtower and then gliding across to get it. It's the room where you get those three missions from Captain Li Shang on your first visit. You can lure the Assault Rider close enough to a watchtower, then since you're close enough to an enemy to count as in combat, you can use Mulan's Limit at the top of a watchtower to fly to it. Unfortunately, I forgot that Mulan's Limit existed, but that meant coming up with a cooler method. When you come to this room even later in the game, Neoshadows spawn alongside an Air Pirate. Instead of using Glide (or remembering that Mulan's Limit exists), I ended up luring the Air Pirate over to the corner, jumping just before it punched, let the punch hit me to knock me higher into the air, activated Master Form, used Reflect spam to keep myself in place as I rotated the camera, and then Aerial Dodged right into the puzzle piece. Unfortunately, if I had just gone closer to the other exit (near the starting room for the first visit), I would have found out that Emerald Blues *also* spawn along an Air Pirate there and I could have just used them, but the Air Pirate method was cooler so I don't care.

[@justinb.8505]

All I needed to hear from the Issues, was basically the Limits, are got damn too strong. And When BB mentioned Saix, and using it on him, ahhh, Memories of using that limit on him every single time I fight him and his data form. Knocksmash will always be my favorite limit, period, not the best, but my favorite limit.

[@shieru2207]

Do not forget 2FM also added Re:CoM when it came out, it was a bundle

[@Kenny-vs4pr]

2FM is still to me the best ARPG I've ever played. Fluid combos that give a rewarding feeling when successful but simultaneously punish when they fail, like you said an absurd amount of content compared to the base game (especially in 2007!!!), and all of the quality of life changes that came with 2FM over base KH2. I've tried and tried again to find new games that feed my hunger for a simple hack-and-slash, but I'll be damned if anything ever tops this masterpiece for me. I mean sure it obviously has some flaws like the world design, but the base game was still a solid 7/10 content-wise and an 8/10 or even a 9/10 mechanics and combat-wise. Then 2FM decides they want to up the ante?! Content now a solid 10/10 (again, especially in 2007), and combat/mechanics a solid 11/10. And I haven't even brought up how Critical Mode was such a game-changer in not only how the game plays but also how you plan out each combo so you don't get punished by a revenge value or a DM. This game is never stale for me gameplay-wise and is always a satisfying experience when you absolutely clap cheeks at it TL;DR: This game was way ahead of it's time and Square Enix would probably still put other game developers to shame with how they overhauled an already excellent game and turned it into a masterpiece from the ground up

[@tuckerkeith9951]

I think its a little dishonest to just say 2fm added 20 new bosses and stop there with no further explanation. Besides lingering will, it added 6 new org bosses and then just re-balanced them and the existing org bosses for the data fights. Not to discredit that by any means but i personally think its not as impressive as kh3rm adding 14 entirely new bosses, each with a personalized theme

[@insertnamehere2746]

Except those bosses arent entriely new they were all in base kh3 just crammed into a single room 3 at a time

[@tuckerkeith9951]

@@insertnamehere2746 thats not entirely true. Sure yoy fought these characters in the base game but according to Nomura the data fights are all new models and its clear that they all have several new and fun moves and animations

[@insertnamehere2746]

@@tuckerkeith9951 okay so what you're telling me is that kn the base game they were incomplete bosses

[@tuckerkeith9951]

@@insertnamehere2746 i don't really know how you came to that conclusion but if thats how you want to see it then whatever. I don't agree that they weren't complete, however I do like the remind bosses more than the base game bosses. That being said I still like the base game bosses and think they pull off what they were going for well

[@rpgfanatic9719]

@@insertnamehere2746 How do you get they were incomplete? Anything can be improved on, it doesn't mean incomplete.

[@manwithnoname4346]

Here's what was great about 2FM for me: the new content was mixed throughout the game. As opposed to Re:Mind, where the vast majority of the new content was post-game. That meant that the whole experience was improved from beginning to end which kept the game fresh. As much as I enjoyed 3, it needed some new cutscenes, new mid-game content, new SOMETHING to keep you invested during the Disney world visits.

[@Iceboltdoom]

i could listen to you discuss things all the time dude #DinnerWithTheBoys

[@zoim2012]

Would also like to point something out I didn't hear get talked about. A BIG difference and change between Base and 2fm is that all damage taken was changed. In base KH2, everything was much easier simply due to the fact that you take significantly less damage. A fun example in the context of speedruns, in base 2 you cant die to setzer during a beginner run. you just stand there for a minute for time to run out, where 2fm you die with 30 seconds left on the clock. It made the incentive of "mash x and sometimes use a drive" much lower and forced even beginner and standard to have to put in a bit of effort.

[@insertnamehere2746]

This isnt true. You can for sure die to him on a proud mode speedrun. Same thing with most beginning game bosses. Plus, not having limit form is a cruth you dont have against most bosses, or in that final fantasy fight section after you beat demyx

[@zoim2012]

@@insertnamehere2746 nowhere was proud mentioned in this comment. If you read what was said properly you'd realize I was talking about Beginner, and how 2fm made beginner "harder" from taking increased damage.

[@tigerfestivals5137]

I think the amount of content in Re:Mind is actually comparable to 2FM, at least as far as the superbosses go. Most of the 2fm superbosses they added were just harder versions of the org fights, whereas Re;Mind added completely new bossfights with the org that gave them new movesets and attack patterns.

[@aldebaran2643]

Then again, the added content wasn't as well-blended into the base game to fix most of the issues. RM was a DLC, 2FM was a limited overhaul.

[@tigerfestivals5137]

@@aldebaran2643 sure, but I'm talking about the amount of content, not exactly how well it was integrated (which 2fm did better). I just think that saying 2fm had way more super bosses is unfair when most of those are repurposed existing fights with more challenging gimmicks or more health.

[@TronSAHeroXYZ]

LOL, 8:35 Those health bars. Radiant Blades, is just like Magnet splash, without the pull effect, but with the bounce effects, except on hyper armor enemies who are in the middle of their attack animations.

[@sofaris576]

There is one thing I miss from the vanilla game. The German dub. I really like that dub but the Final Mix version of KH 1 and 2 only have the english dub.

[@casualvanilla]

It's like Square said fuck you to Germany and France after KH2. Not a single KH game afterwards would be dubbed in anything except for Japanese and English.

[@insertnamehere2746]

KH2 vanilla absolutely had better dubbing. I wish they would bring it back

[@diegolomba2613]

Would love to see a kh talk comparing bbs and ddd

[@thehat8006]

Balloon vs Thunder Surge

[@Jyukenmaster95]

@@thehat8006 Reflect is just 2FM's version of Ballonra & Thunder Surge tho

[@thehat8006]

@@Jyukenmaster95 At least you have to time reflect.

[@steveno4871]

And effect with combo master is so fucking cool. Litteraly being able to weave offense and defense because you have knowledge on the enemy’s attack pattern is satisfying. And really, the magic attack combo feels satisfying to pull off by itself. So putting those two together feels good man.

[@jacksonwww5]

I don't think Reflect is so broken in KH2, the limits are broken, especially Donald's, the limits give you a lot of free invincibility, you can kill the bosses just using Duck Flare + MP potion

[@yinyangpodcast2432]

Give us more analysis videos! Of this format, it's really fun to watch and your insight is useful. Even on different games you feel passionate about!

[@poleon2003]

And also the reason why Limit forms addition is so good is because it's the only drive form that Sora can use WITHOUT Donald and Goofy as party members to use especially in solo fights like the battle of the 1000 heartless and Sephiroth and the Xenmas boss fights with Riku as the the original KH2 you couldn't use any drive form during those solo fights so you couldn't use any drive points aside from summons but 2FM's introduction of Limit Form finally addresses this problem

[@Shayanzass]

Limit form was kinda busted, I liked it design wise. Cavern of Remembrance was cool, and I think Scala map 2 was just as good tbh. Cavern isn't even canon right? Remind had better bosses. But yeah, I agree that 2fm was alot better as an update as whole cause it had a way better foundation compared to 3. 3 had to fix alot of things, and 3s still has a plethora of problems

[@anthonybello1447]

As someone who likes 3, yeah, I agree. Kh3 had so much potential but because of the ocean of issues that comes with the base game, it just destroyed any momentum the game had, and while the ReMind had a good update to the game, it didn't fix a lot of the issues of the base game, and the momentum that Remind had to get people back into the game was gone within a few months cause the base game still isn't fun to play through and come back to. It's a chore more than anything. Kh2 as a whole did a lot better on this end, but I can still find fun with Kh3, even with all the issues

[@nesoukkefka1741]

@@anthonybello1447 Genually agreed here like ReMind Data Org and Yozora were amazing bosses design wise, and from a challenge perspective I really would like to do them on a LV1 challenge like I did with KH2FM, but I can't because KH3's LV1 is just boring to death due to the cheap damage you deals and bosses that can take way to long, I don't get why they had the 2FM's mechanic of scaling your damage on the Datas and Yozora but not on the main game this is kinda stupid. The problem also come with the base mechanics, like I have fun with KH3 but the amount of variety in the option they give you is lacking like all Summons/Links are just big AoE with big damage, magic spells are all about doing damage, most of the Formchanges they just make your combos looks flashier and stronger but they don't change your way to approach fight and you have very little control over when you can use (for the forms Critical Mode kinda fix that thank god). Now look at KH2FM each Summons had a different purpose Chicken Little was good for crowd control, Stitch was good for intense Magic usage, Genie give bunch of new attacks for either crowd control or bosses, Peter Pan is solid for stunlocking and act as a extra safety with revive. Same with Magic Blizzard was long range in face of Sora, Fire acted like a shield around him, Thunder was the snipping long range, and then you had Magnet for Crowd Control (which actually was nerf in 2FM by the way) and Reflect for defense. Same with the forms and in comparison with KH3's Formchange it's the perfect exemple of quality over quantity, each of the 5 forms is unique and considerably change how you approach fight, not mentionning they affect spells as well and each are suited, and you have access to all of this tool very easily and can actually strategize around their usage very easily.

[@Kingdom850]

@@anthonybello1447 The premium menu exists. pro codes on definitely make the base game have more replayability.

[@jonnysac77]

I almost agree with you on the bosses, it's just that KH2 gives you way more intresting tools to fight those bosses with which makes them more fun to fight since you just have more ways to fight them while KH3 doesn't have many intresting tools that change the dynamic of the fight, the most interesting thing I've seen is water I-frames and smacking Larxene with a quick step while she's teleporting

[@Netherman14TheHellblazer]

I was on the Stickman Sham 2FM rando graveyard shift stream, and towards the end I said "Two Become One's ability should have changed once you get Final Form" Sham replied with "that would have been nice, although you should have just gotten Final Form automatically alongside (presumably) Combo Master and get Two Become One with an actually good ability". I have to agree with him.

[@dmas7749]

what ability would you give it?

[@somebakedgood]

@@dmas7749 control 2 soras at once Kappa

[@OneGamer2EnvyThemAll]

BB and Biz still using the Japanese names for FM-only stuff ALL these years later is peak "emulator gen" players. Also: Zawn-tehts-ken.

[@dmas7749]

hell, he got me doing it

[@Ixiot_]

KH2 Original feels like an Open Beta, with 2FM as the planned final version with just how much they managed to get into 2FM so quickly

[@notscorchingsands9718]

Got to love 50 dollar betas.......

[@ME-oj9bw]

Yeah no and it looks like you missed the entire point of the video. Original KH2 was a finished, complete, and enjoyable game. The only problem is it didn’t utilize its already fantastic foundation to the max like it could have and ultimately leaves people wanting more, but then KH2FM comes around and adds so much more to the game like +20 new bosses, a new difficulty mode, puzzles to incentivize exploration / utilization of growth abilities, plus much much more, which was mostly all in response to problems people had with original KH2. KH2 without FM would have still been a great game (just like KH1 without FM) But FM turned KH2 from a great game to the best game, and still holds that title all these years later.

[@Ixiot_]

​ @M E I know what the video was saying. KH2 Was a fine game with a good baseline, having many goods about it, but some mechanics (limits, drives, and all that) weren't fine tuned, and of course the huge addition of things to actually challenge the underutilized aspects of the base game (superbosses, growth abilities, and the difficulty), I was thinking more like "Early Access steam game that was basically complete but got a cool-ass update that made it better". I also acknowledge the sheer amount of content. I'm just saying that within the 15 months and 1 week between KH2JP and 2FM, it feels like some things they added were planned from the beginning, while a TON of stuff was also feedback (I'd imagine AS, Terra, Mushroom XIII, the abilities themselves (not the reshuffling) and maybe limit were "planned", because everything else feels to be something bringing up issues the last release had. I'm not saying it was an open beta, I guess I'm saying in retrospect it felt like one knowing 15 months later 2FM came out.

[@Ixiot_]

​ @M E Whoops, message cut off, didn't know that'd happen. Anyways: (I'd imagine AS, Terra, Mushroom XIII, the abilities themselves (not the reshuffling) and maybe limit were "planned", because everything else feels to be something bringing up issues the last release had). I'm not saying it was an open beta, I guess I'm saying in retrospect it felt like one knowing 15 months later 2FM came out.

[@chrishyman2949]

I pre-ordered KH2FM+ during high school and it was my first Japanese import. I feel that I was in the minority because I played and beat ReCoM before starting 2FM. It was pretty cool unlocking the JP voices and just hearing anything from the new silent cutscenes. When me and my friends would spend an afternoon trying to beat Terra armor and each of us beating him with a different drive from. Another reason I remember 2FM fondly was the cheating device codes to make custom fights and partners. All around just good fun.

[@grilledcheese9845]

I really appreciate how you show gameplay that is relevant to what your talking about, good editing.

[@KaoticVibes]

I would watch a KH TAlks on Critical.❤ Hey now, you brought it up!

[@1010otep]

i think why 2fm worked better as an update is because of how the game's basically thoroughly overhauled, even if it came at a greater cost, wherein remind only added stuff that did work better but because of the limitation of being an add-on, they weren't able to fix fundamental issues that plagued kh3 prior to the dlc.

[@flarigrar7114]

I feel like there should be an asterisk next to the "20 *new bosses" because 13 of them are just the same bosses you fought throughout the game, but now they have more health

[@clearlynotepic571]

7:37 What the absolute hell is that health bar in the bottom image and why is no one talking about it.

[@Toomanybloops]

Yeah I’m hoping that’s just a meme But I’d like a solid answer lmao

[@PixelHeroViish]

I think it was a Meme based around the fact that Base KH2 Sephiroth had a ton of HP compared to the rest of the game

[@clearlynotepic571]

@@PixelHeroViish Imagine them seeing the final mix bosess' hp

[@PixelHeroViish]

@@clearlynotepic571 Lmaooooooo, yeah

[@TeaRacer]

Oh hey it’s me

[@shimp9824]

u do gods work bro

[@blueb_oy]

Great KH talk man. Excited for the next one!

[@heroicgangster9981]

The reason why Duck Flare is only good in the US version is because someone at staff must’ve really wanted redemption for the party members in KH2. Plus bugs are fun so the game got.... Re:Coded >:)

[@Jyukenmaster95]

I can definitely see this being a factor. The US audience probably cares more for D&G than JP, so it's a nice touch to not make them feel as irrelevant as they do in 2FM

[@heroicgangster9981]

MegamanEXE79 I definitely like using the limits anytime they are available even if nerfed because I want the vague sense of utility I can have with my party members. And for my critical run I liked to mess around with how Donald and Goofy are spec’d and laid out on battle. To me Remind bummed me out how party members did not get a reworking or something. Cuz man fighting the organization and seeing Goofy doing his tornado attack that does chip damage is still fun in KH2 xD

[@casualvanilla]

Donald and Goofy are so weak in KH2 compared to KH1. There you could command them to fight specific targets with Triangle, and they could not only dish out damage but Goofy could defend himself decently depending on his shield. KH2 watered them down so hard to where you never want them in boss fights. They only serve as access to invincibility frames and Drive forms.

[@heroicgangster9981]

@@casualvanilla Goofy is like supposed to be a guard but they give no opportunity for him to actually shield party members other than distracting heartless foes in the overworlds. It would be useful if Goofy had some sort of all MP attracting aggro type of attack or something. And Donald yeah they really should give him some defensive stuff. I know that post game players ain't concerned about beefing of Donald and Goofy but tbh in KH1 I loved having them take a big part of my team at all times.

[@casualvanilla]

@@heroicgangster9981 What I love in KH1 is that Donald's magic isn't limited to preset abilities. Donald and Sora learn magic at the exact same rate. The only exception is Donald having Fire before Sora, and that's just for their first boss fight together to introduce Donald as a combat mage. Every spell in the game is controllable by Donald, including the advanced spells, Gravity and Stop. He also can cast Aero on himself for additional defence and even bonus enemy damage if he chooses to get physical. In KH2 and KH3, Donald is stuck to whatever magic abilities the game gives him. He can't even level them up like in KH1, where Aero could eventually reach Aeroga.

[@iggyp4390]

Great video! For me the core difference between KH2FM and KH3 ReMind is ultimately that KH2 has a lot of story sequences that I always enjoy re-experiencing. New difficulties and abilities just enhance those scenarios. KH3, however, has very little that I would want to re-experience because there is so little original story content in the game. So if they ever were to make a KH3 Final Mix, in my opinion they would need to do way more than KH2FM to make it worth it, such as adding entire scenarios (Realm of Darkness, Castle Oblivion, Radiant Garden, etc). KH2 Vanilla, for all its flaws, did not have that large of a problem, which is why 2FM was able to redeem it to the extent it did. A hypothetical KH3 Final Mix would need to be more like Persona 5 Royal. Given the amount of work it would take-and considering it took almost a whole year just to make ReMind-I imagine Nomura has decided it’s better to just devote the time and resources to the next main-series title. It’s understandable, but still stings, because it means we will probably never have the grand Xehanort Saga Finale we all dreamt of. (I think they should consider patching the long Xemnas-Aqua Armor cutscene out of KH2FM, though. The Xemnas-Terra connection and the Chamber of Waking/Repose mystery were ignored in KH3, so the cutscene no longer serves enough of a purpose to justify its length lol).

[@roxas1802]

Definitely agree that KH3 could’ve used a bit more original story content. And it does hurt a little that the base game of KH3 wasn’t overhauled (and probably will never receive any original story content updates) like KH2FM. And yeah Nomura and the main KH team are probably working on the next big title which might be for the best. Let’s hope the next big title whether it’s a spin-off like BBS/DDD or KH4 is really good from the beginning.

[@Cory_]

>problem bosses like Demyx It's so funny that you say that because when I was young Demyx was the boss I could never get past. The game taught my young stupid self that pressing X and triangle over and over again was a valid strategy, and then I got to that fight in Hollow Bastion and couldn't get past him until, like, middle school.

[@insertnamehere2746]

Exactly, Demyx is definitely a gate keeper against button mashers

[@SteveTheWizard]

I just want to put out there that Critical in KH3 is a thing to add similar to KH2FM. The difference is KH3 got added updates for free (since back when KH2FM came out patching wasn't possible) like Critical, Oathkeeper/Oblivion, and new abilities. Given that KH2FM requires the purchase of a completely new game (while also needing to start from the beginning again) I am glad that ReMind is cheaper over all and also that many of the QOL changes that were added in KH2FM were added to KH3 for free.

[@darkimpetus5258]

Remeber back in the day when you could get scan at level 4? Me neither. That is one obscure little thing they did, scan now is the axel 1 gift.

[@TFSned]

Someone datamined the original KHII and found references to critical mode and level 1, so they were definitely planned from the start. The benefit to releasing these later is you have more time to playtest them after the game is content complete, and you can get feedback from players on what's too easy or hard in the regular difficulties. That's why I'm glad they took their time in KHIII to prevent Crit and lvl1 from being a broken mess like BBS, 3D and 0.2.

[@tsp184]

I think you forgot to mention that vanilla KH2 didn’t have Dodge Roll, and KH2FM added it as a Growth Ability linked to Limit Form.

[@LeonardoRodrigues-uj1sm]

Funny how base KH2's problems are literally the same base KH3 problems to an extent.

[@sbfh014]

I am definitely enjoying these kh talks, keep it up! I'd like to hear more opinions about other kh games, even about ones you dislike, or how you feel some games differ from others

[@_AntDiesel]

Satisfying video. Exactly what I was looking for

[@aurumarma5711]

My problem with Remind is that the bulk of the end game content isn't in the base game. You have to use a separate menu to access it. If they just added it to the end plot, or have you the option to trigger it in the past game it would have been better.

[@JSwag_Reviews]

I agree with this so hard fighting the same bosses with different character on crit felt like a chore.

[@unclesizorsalad8169]

I remember certain things about kh2 that final mix changed or made me more willing to use certain abilities or more identifiable for easier methods or planning for bosses or mob fights

[@hotsinglemilfsinyourarea]

Idk I just finished 2fm critical and limits were still pretty busted lmao, the invincibility frames from them was really easy to abuse to avoid death. it was even more busted in proud mode runs, and on beginner if you used duck flare on xigbar his shit was done for

[@casualvanilla]

Goofy's limits are pathetically useless in KH2FM. Donald's on the other hand are pretty much as strong as they are in the original version. Most don't use his limits for raw damage, but just for invincibility while Sora inflicts damage.

[@insertnamehere2746]

@@casualvanilla that is blatantly not true, donalds overall damage is fuckin insane in 2.5

[@tyronetiggums6441]

2FM is a good expansion but honestly looking at it, most of its additions were either repeated content (the data fights were just harder versions of bosses you already fought) or things to make up for the base 2's shortcomings. That's not to say the other FMs don't to a degree but it's more obvious here. There's one thing 1FM was objectively better at was its implementation of new story cutscenes. 2FM had some pretty bad ones with almost all of them adding nothing substantial to KH2's story and drag the pacing out: the most infamous being Xemnas visiting Aqua's armor, which was a solid 6 mins of him walking with no dialogue and "dead" Org Members talking about it (neither of which having anything to do with the war on Hallow Bastion, where these were placed right before Sora fights Demyx).

[@casualvanilla]

Xemnas walking down those goddamned stairs is one of the funniest things I'd seen in a long time. I can't believe they had the camera pay attention to him that long. They couldn't have placed those cutscenes in a worse position either. The problem with the story cutscenes is that a lot of them are just exposition; most of them don't further the plot in a meaningful way. In KH1, most additional cutscenes have a purpose. You see Riku in Hollow Bastion and then understand why he's randomly with Maleficent, something the original version of the game left out. In KH2, you get the scene with Roxas and Axel in Twilight Town. It's a heartwarming scene, but comes out of nowhere, doesn't make sense to most players in terms of the timeline (who would've guessed it was occurring right in the moment) and doesn't add anything to Roxas and Sora's conflict, which is the ongoing battle. I agree that the data fights shouldn't be considered new content. The seven actual bosses (including Lingering Will) that were added in their base forms, I understand. The data battles just change the stats around and alter the gimmicks slightly. Not a single one of those battles even give the enemies a new attack; they just get modified versions of their old attacks.

[@01ChaosWarrior]

KH2 is still kinda easy even on Critical. If you level up even a bit beyond what the main game expects, or ever stop to realize how broken certain things like reflect or summons are, you will break basically everything besides the data fights over one knee.

[@crydiamond8704]

what gets me about kh2 base is in the beginning it shows cutscene segments from 1fm (the xemnas hollo bastion fight) which was confusing (until i learned about final mix)

[@casualvanilla]

Does KH2 show that at any point? I know Re:Chain of Memories shows that, which was confusing for American players.

[@GuyHeadset]

@@casualvanilla It's during the latter part of the simulated twilight town when Roxas is still remembering sora's memories. As a Kid I was quite confused then people told me it was part of KH1FM.

[@AlphaPHK]

This video actually made me remember the first time I played 2 and 2FM back when I was 11 (I live in Japan, so language wasn't a problem) and I remember spamming Limits so much in the base game, but stopped in 2FM... Little me didn't realize all those little changes to the game... and even today I didn't even knew about that sorta thing, lol I should give KH2 another go sometime. I always played the game like "mash circle but sometimes triangle to win" that I didn't appreciate the game as much as I should've.

[@Vinylmelody1517]

Huh. I never realized how much I had forgotten about the original release. Also love you and your videos. I saw your run at SGDQ 2017 and I've loved watching your runs in ever since. Hope to see more assemblage randomizer runs and races.

[@SeruraRenge11]

Base KH2 was the reason that people for years said 2 is hot garbage and a step down from 1, because in many ways aside from SOME gameplay improvements 2 (like having a camera that's actually good and the base combo system) was actually a downgrade from what people loved about 1. FM did a lot of work in salvaging 2 as a game, it's not like 1's FM where the additions are nice but not really needed. Didn't help that without critical mode 2 is a stupidly easy game and that 2 was the game that started Nomura's wild ride in terms of plot. Also, I would argue the one thing 1FM could've added that would've fixed 90% of its issues was to just pull back the camera to be as far away as 2's was. Because 1 is a fundamentally good game, it just has some niggling flaws that eat away at such a nice picture.

[@titsbitchmcgee7502]

Took the words right out of my mouth. Vanilla KH2 really was mash X to win, even on proud.

[@insertnamehere2746]

@@titsbitchmcgee7502 oh yeah sure it was thats why the last time bizkit speedran it he died like 20 times

[@insertnamehere2746]

You say all of that about vanilla 2 but even vanilla 2 had MORE content than 1FM, i dont know how the hell you ppl are blind to this

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@insertnamehere2746 Because people didn't like vanilla 2's content. It doesn't matter if you fill a game with content if people don't want to do it, just look at any MMO. More importantly, 1 was seen by people as having SOUL.

[@insertnamehere2746]

@@SeruraRenge11 "seen by people" what do you mean by "people"? The IGN critics who said KH2 had no soul? Surely you dont mean the the actual public who gave kh2 praise, or Famitsu who gave it co-game of the year. Contrary to what you're saying right now, people LOVED KH2 before final mix, and plenty of those people preferred it to 1 for several reasons. So I'm having a hard time believing you when you say ppl didn't like its content. It has far more bosses and far more GOOD bosses and less bad ones

[@artikz7349]

Glad I got recommended this

[@CaptainCJ97]

I said it once and I'll say it again kh2fm is catching lightning in a bottle for the series gameplay wise

[@wjdelu6758]

I literally just finished my first playthrough of 2FM just this past week after not playing 2 since probably Days came out. I was aware of the changes that were added by it is seriously mind blowing playing it and thinking that this was made for PS2 originally.

[@vincethebanana]

I loved how you could basically use any type of combat as a style and it would just work throughout the game. Something I wish they did for KH3 was make the drive forms ACTUAL forms of combat you could be in 100% of the time. You could run around in Valor form with dual keyblades and could level it up like it was your default level. The keyblade forms are sort of that, but you have to play the normal way until you accrue enough energy to activate them, and STILL they are time limited.... 19:50 Wish they’d do this with KH3’s attractions/magic/etc.... 26:07 I feel like that’s why Pokémon Heartgold and Soulsilver was Gamefreak’s shining jewel. Took the extremely solid gameplay aspects of Gold, Silver, AND Crystal and added new areas, mini games, tons of Legendaries, etc. They added good substantial things to the game and didn’t affect the base game into a different direction.

[@CloneLoli]

I think Re:Mind could have benefited from minor tweaks to the base game of KH3, they could have added absent silhouettes or something as you beat the worlds, unique heartless to find and fight instead of play a simple mini-game, I still think they should add a damn coliseum like 1 had. Even by comparison base KH3 had less overall than base KH2. KH3 had better post-game than KH2 but when compared to 2FM there's nowhere close to the amount of content. I still think they could add more to base 3 at this point and it would make it an incredible KH game. - Add more enemies to find and fight so revisiting worlds has multiple uses. (To help influence their use, redo the synthesis drop rate and system.) - Add a coliseum that unlocks after beating Olympus. I think simply adding more for the player to do during the base game and more for them to do post-game (without Re:Mind) would make it so people don't make such a massive distinction between the base game and Re:Mind.

[@MuzzaMiki]

That mushroom from wizards tower still gives me nightmares

[@HoennAngel]

Something that I'd like to comment on as a weird halfway between a hardcore and casual player; 2FM and 3Mind are the only KH games I played on Critical and felt it was enjoyable. The other games have rather faked difficulty like you mentioned (curbed damage or fatter hp bars on bosses). It makes them more tedious on higher difficulties. 1fm actively discourages me from playing on not beginner because beginner gives me more stuff to start with. 2FM and 3 at least incentivise crit runs with sweet abilities. I'd personally consider 3mind better than 2fm in this context if 3 didn't limit my accessibility to keyblade transformations. All this to say; yeah man I kinda agree

[@SeruraRenge11]

Doesn't 1FM give you a crazy damage multiplier and built-in Second Chance at level 1?

[@ventusse]

@@SeruraRenge11 I believe critical mode and critical mode level 1 should be a separate topic since playing the game (KH2 and KH3 mainly) on critical mode normally is actually easier than Proud mode due to said perks plus level up bonuses. I think HoennAngel is referring to critical mode normal playthrough instead of level 1 playthrough.

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@ventusse I'm talking about KH1's level 1 playthrough though

[@ventusse]

@@SeruraRenge11 Same sentiments though, critical mode really doesn't give you any incentives aside from reduced damage and the likes unless you are going to play on level 1 which is a different challenge altogether. KH2FM and KH3RM critical mode gives various perks to at least make it fair while KH1FM, KHBBSFM, KH3D critical mode does not give you anything to make it fair. I mean, even just increasing drop rate of synthesis materials or something is better than just reduced damage to enemies, increased damage received, reduced HP, etc. And as I have said, level 1 challenges should be a different topic since No Exp grants a different perk per game.

[@lpfan4491]

Recoded is still the closest in the sidegames to get difficulty completely right but still no win because of the enemydesign and it not taking a few mechanics that made KH2 more fair.

[@jasonargo4459]

I always enjoy your videos, BB! One suggestion would be for your gameplay resolution to be a little clearer. Maybe some kind of hardware upscaler?

[@amunnamed]

This video honestly made my jaw drop. Because I had no idea these were all FM exclusive. When I was very young I played FM and just thought this was base KH2. I was too young and dumb to revisit worlds after completely beating them so I never fought Lingering Will or Data Org, I only fought Roxas. I wonder how weird it was for people in the west who only got a cutscene with no fight...

[@mvcEevee]

Yeah.... it was very weird feeling left out from both base KH1 and KH2 then seeing videos of them online back in 2006/7. Then never getting another console release KH until the remasters which by then lost most of its charm for me. Even more off putting thinking... I have to buy handhelds I don't own besides a GBA to even play the other games then just stopped following altogether.

[@JustJohn816]

28:19 I've only heard this, i havent seen it for myself, but apparently KH2 english has unsused Limit Form Textures in its code!

[@geancarlosegarra3193]

Loved the new editing🙌🏼

[@ginger-ham4800]

This is the first person I have *ever* heard say that KH2, a game that constantly and consistently got 8.5 to 10 scores in gaming sites and magazines, as "barebones".

[@twiphe4375]

I thought it would be 21 new bosses. Data Org XIII (14 bosses) + KH:CoM Org XIII (5 bosses) + Roxas (1 boss) + Lingering Will (1 boss)

[@dairyfreelemonstreams9493]

Does anyone know where to get the level editor? I heard it got released but having trouble finding it.

[@Vigriff]

I don't think MP Rage mattered all that much in KH2 as well either.

[@braydenb1581]

I really would love to see the drives from kh2 return but not time based. Maybe edit them to be not so op but they were just so much fun to use

[@TylerBR97]

Love this talk. Great analysis

[@eggscellent3753]

Ngl KH2FM has the best Combat System

[@kingdomx4940]

And the combat on KH2FM feels better than the other games

[@kangdide]

I think another point you fail to mention about remind is that it added or fixed basically nothing to the base game yes there was a ton of awesome new content but the main story was still mostly the same. This is compared with kh2 which added a new form, ability placements, balance, and quality of life improvements along the way to make it a much more enjoyable experience to regular kh2.

[@Carnezz]

Very true that KH2FM is much better than KH2 base game. However I truly believe that KH3 ReMind combat and boss design is revolutionary and beyond our time. When I beat KH3 base game I still found KH2FM to be my favorite KH game. Yet after beating ReMind I've just been so blown away it doesn't make sense anymore. So yes although KH2FM was groundbreaking, I don't think it was as much so as KH3 DLC. Took me 100-200 attempts per boss w/ all pro codes critical mode to reach the opinion that what I experienced was absolute perfection. KH2FM will still always be my #2 tho.

[@ChriseeFilms]

love these KH talks :D

[@Shirgene]

Bruh moment number 1 in KH2FM

[@El_Nombas]

Whaddup boys

[@AkiraSatou]

I expected this one no lie. I was surprised no one was talking about how jank KH2 vanilla was, the game didn't break into it's mechanics that allowed crit lvl 1 to be viable until kh2fm existed, and by proxy crit lvl 1

[@splunkmastah4609]

Have to agree. I think Re:Mind would have been a lot better if it hadn’t been tacked on to a menu and implemented into the main game properly.

[@jacksonwww5]

I believe that they had imagined that people would not want to play the same game again, so they put a separate Menu, however I also prefer the KHFM method

[@Ddiaboloer]

I believe there was exactly 15 new bosses added into KH2. 13 data fights, Terra and story Roxas fight

[@Cdinkha]

You're forgetting the 5 data fights in Olympus, Twilight Town, Pirates, Beasts Castle, and Agrabah. Also there are technically 14 Data fights because Xemnas has 2 different fights. So all in all it actually equals to 21.

[@Ddiaboloer]

@@Cdinkha Thanks, you are correct that I forgot the absent silhouettes

[@senjugiku]

the absent silhouettes technically count as well, i'd think

[@inoob26]

didnt know Speedrun talk is basically a GDC talk here

[@iAmCalypso33]

BBSFM needs some love too. Still my favorite KH game. I hope we get another command menu/melding game.

[@notscorchingsands9718]

You about to trigger some people lol

[@iAmCalypso33]

@@notscorchingsands9718 People get mad at Bbs but then say nothing about how horrible Union X is. UnionX = bad story, bad gameplay, empty bank account. But the art on the cards is amazing

[@CaptainCJ97]

@@iAmCalypso33 I can go on a long rant about that dumb phone game but I'm just gonna say it's trash

[@klickklack_pron9504]

Bro people be talking about bbs, but some people are really sleeping on Recoded, which in my opinion has the best use of the command system, and gives a good challenge on critical mode

[@iAmCalypso33]

@@klickklack_pron9504 Recoded is good but I like ths overall package of Bbs better. Leonard Nimoy killed it as Master Xehanort and I love the look of Vanitas. Maybe we can get a solo Riku game that uses the command system

[@nick6019]

I think KH3RM totally saved the game by fixing the combo system and providing great post game, but it didn’t change base KH3 enough. If you want the new abilities in a playthrough of KH3 you have to do new game plus. I wish they would have integrated the abilities into the natural flow of progression in the game.

[@harp-692]

Kh3 didn't get fixed

[@nick6019]

Daniel Tabak Hmmm, okay. I disagree personally that’s cool. What do you wish they had done differently in remind?

[@harp-692]

@@nick6019 I actually have the opinion that the story related stuff doesnt come with a paid addon. Many things in the story that really were questionable got explained in remind but not everyone has enough money to buy this. I was really upset. Also the gameplay wasnt fun because enemys just hit randomly and everything is MUCH faster ... I was heavily dissapointed.

[@alexdeeter5789]

I'd really like to hear your deep dive thoughts on kh3 data org battles

[@mike7898]

You should totally do one for kh3 remind.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

autolock is a negative IMO. being unable to aim attacks even when not locked is dumb and annoying. especially in fights like kh3 data luxord. edit: 20 bosses is kinda dishonest, not gonna lie e.e

[@nakasato790]

20 new bosses is pretty accurate, actually.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

@@nakasato790 if you count absent silhouettes and data org as separate bosses maybe. but does that REALLY count?

[@Raspygrain]

I fucking love this game