T*tties on display, what’s the big deal? | Khadija Mbowe

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theleftovermil...
Creator, Producer, Host
Khadija Mbowe
Production Assistance
Adam Mbowe
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Travis Davis
Khadija Mbowe
Research
Antonia McClennan
Khadija Mbowe
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[@KhadijaMbowe]

Marigold Music Program: instagram.com/marigoldmusicprogram/

[@polimana]

this program is cool af 😎💅🏽🪕

[@MiotaLee]

Getting lumped in with sex offenders for having a bare chest is ridiculous and even borderline harmfully diluting the term to its detriment.

[@nosir2758]

SAY IT AGAINNNN

[@JDMimeTHEFIRST]

Also sexist.

[@thesevenkingswelove9554]

​@NotVille_ the hell?

[@theman9048]

Nah it's still nudity

[@actualgoblin]

@@theman9048 nudity isn't inherently sexual

[@milaces1323]

As a woman with big breasts, to me is unthinkable to ever be able to just exist bare-chested in public and not be percieved in a lewd way even if it's completely legal. I can't even wear common v neck tops without being told that it'll always look like i want attention in a sexual way for god's sake!

[@ithinkiknowme6450]

I’m sorry you have to go through that .. I’m also big chested woman.. And no matter what i wear..i get the dirty looks.. even though I’m a minor.. I deliberately dress masculine so that I’m misgendered and not harassed.. I’m looking forward to breast reduction surgery in the near future because my tibbes genuinely make me uncomfortable and unsafe ❤

[@milaces1323]

@@ithinkiknowme6450 At least we got fashion going for us, oversized clothes are trendy lol. Sending you a big hug 🩷🩷🩷

[@miglek9613]

In my case I can't even ditch the bra due to my chest size because 1. I was put into one before I was properly sentient and by now not wearing a bra for more than a day really hurts 2. I would literally get sexually harrassed any time. It 's genuinely frustrating seeing everyone around me ditch the bra and know I can't do that without getting invasive (and potentially expensive) surgery

[@haileys5224]

@@miglek9613a couple of my big chested friends have gradually been forgoing bras. Obviously if you feel like it would make you unsafe than it’s not something I would recommend. But . . . I will say other people’s perception of you, is not your responsibility. If people sexualize you that’s not your fault. Like you said you can hardly wear a regular shirt without judgement. It sounds like there will be people who perceive you in a specific way regardless of your expression. If you did want to attempt to forgo bras before/ without breast reduction, it’s still an option. It’s easier with numbers. A few of My friends would express envy, and My braless small chested friend and I would express encouragement. Slowly more of my friends become more open to the idea. Once one of my friends with bigger boobs stopped wearing bras my other two friends with a larger chest than her decided to also give it a try. It makes a lot of sense to feel like it’s not an option when you don’t see anyone who looks like you participating. But there are people with big boobs on this wave and there are different ways to forgo bras. I hope that you can express yourself to the fullest of your desires.

[@sneedmando186]

That’s people projecting. Just cause someone finds it sexual doesn’t mean you’re are being sexual

[@healxo]

Y'all, this isn't to say everyone should go topless, it's about being able to have the *freedom* to if you so choose. And to have that freedom, we all need to unpack things to make it safer and fight against unjust laws. If you never want to take your shirt off, no one is forcing you to 😭😭😭 also saying that b00bs aren't *inherently* sexual means that is not the base function. There's lots of things that *can* be sexual... in a sexual context. But that needs consent and the context is what makes it sexual. I'm not into feet but some people are and I'm not here trying to ban flip flops. But you don't have to wear flip flops if you don't want to.

[@kururu4ever]

Very well said 👏

[@KhadijaMbowe]

Boom.

[@healxo]

@@KhadijaMbowe 💚💚💚

[@rottenisee2751]

10 for 10

[@chillin5703]

Flip flops r so ugly damn

[@YuukitheMighty1]

People are so weird about breasts. I remember going to a Walmart and this young mom was getting yelled at and lectured by two older women because she had the audacity to feed her kid. If it bothers you look away and move on! (and maybe unpack why you feel so uncomfortable about breastfeeding/breasts in general)

[@divine555]

Well to be that part of the body also is meant to be used s****ually, not just to feed children so it's natural for people to feel freaked out by it

[@technicallyawriter]

This plays out very differently for us fat women. A thin woman's exposed breasts are supposedly obscene because they are sexually desirable. But a fat women's breasts are obscene because they *aren't* sexually desirable (at least, according to the current beauty standard). Our bodies are seen as not-sexy and not-sexual, but still obscene. Likewise with age. This makes me think that the "boobs can't be shown in public because they are inherently sexual" argument is not the whole story. There's more going on there. 💚

[@Liz-kj2jj]

Yes, and there are parts of even thin women’s breasts that are deems unseemly, like large aerials or stretch marks or irregular/not perfectly symmetrical. That is why society prefers the shape created by bras, all the “imperfections” smoothed out and covered

[@beth7935]

THIS.

[@bryna7]

This is the best comment here

[@treacherousjslither6920]

​@@Liz-kj2jjLarge areolas are very seemly on a woman. They are to me at least. I like it when a woman's breasts look like eyes haha

[@awkwardcutie]

Yeah honestly fat bodies (I'm fat) are treated differently. I've heard stories of how when people who are conventionally attract take a riskeyy photo it gets praised but if a fat person does it they can get it like removed from the platform or something ☠️

[@ticnerani3466]

I actually went to a tops optional women's retreat years ago and it completely dismantled the 'nudidty is sexual' idea that had been drilled into my brain. It was so freeing to see people just going about their day topless and the world not exploding. No part of the body is inherently sexual, sexual is all in the context of the situation.

[@4BYSSALTEETH]

i took figure drawing classes my first year of college and it had the same dismantling effect on me. as an artist specifically, my brain adapted to view bodies as just complex combinations of shapes and lines and proportions

[@ticnerani3466]

@@4BYSSALTEETH Yep! Totally possible to develop a sense of time and place and not view people sexually by default even when attractive.

[@julesmallow]

yeah it used to be the case that ankles were seen as sexually revealing!! standards can change and should. I feel like a lot of the body dysmorphia femmes go through is due to being expected to cover up our bodies and change them to more socially acceptable shapes

[@paulinemoira8442]

@@julesmallow well at least back in those days the fashionable body shape could be achieved through the shapes and layering of clothing. Now it is the shape (and size) of our actual body that are made into trends. And sure we are supposed to cover up with one layer of fabric, but the shape of our body underneath is on display constantly for not just our partner but everyone to judge.

[@Parisroam]

@ville__ why are you spamming this comment? 🤣 nobody is triggered, this is an open discussion and you added absolutely nothing to it. If anything I’m triggered by how useless and attention seeking your comment is 🤣💀

[@peregrinecovington4138]

This reminds me that once someone called the cops on my friend for being naked changing in her own bedroom. Like someone was looking into her window and saw her naked and somehow she is in the wrong? I'm still baffled by this. How does that work.

[@AragornElessar]

wtf? That's an invasion of your friend's privacy.

[@captaincaspian42]

Lmao some lady at the zoo tried to tell me she was going to call security on me for being in a girl's portapotty. I was unbuckling my skirt in front of the toilet when she ripped open the LOCKED door, pulling it hard enough that the lock broke.

[@actualgoblin]

i've heard multiple stories of people getting arrested for being naked in their own home. imagine goung to jail because you forgot to close the curtains 😔

[@fancyhughes]

How tf did that person not get in trouble for peeping!?

[@irondragonmaiden]

Yeah, no, I'd sue them or whatever is needed for stalking. I don't care if I wind up losing thousands in the attrition warfare, creeps like that need to be put in their place.

[@omgkatstephens]

I remember getting so angry as a child when playing outside in the 90 degree heat and my brothers could just take their shirts off anytime they felt like it but it was somehow completely inappropriate for me to do it as a girl, even though I was prepubescent and looked exactly the same as my brothers up top at that point (not to say that it should matter if the breasts are developed or not, we should all be allowed to do it or men shouldn't be allowed to do it any longer).

[@Chloe-ru2eb]

In certain parts of Europe, prepubescent girls are topless at the beach, and only after coming to America did I see little absolute babies with bikini tops and it felt so uncomfortable? I'm all for desexualizing boobs but I understand bikini tops are to hide boobs, so what are they doing on children??? It still makes me feel so weird seeing it and in my head thinking about these childrens' bodies and how grown adults sexualize them its ickyyyyyyyy

[@omgkatstephens]

@@Chloe-ru2eb Perfectly understandable reaction! It's funny that I'll hear fellow Americans saying they were uncomfortable or thought it inappropriate seeing topless children at beaches when traveling Europe, to which I often respond that they only feel that way because they are (unknowingly perhaps) sexualizing their bodies. I always found it to be incredibly refreshing myself. Just made me wish I had that kind of freedom as a child, too.

[@Nacanaca12]

@@Chloe-ru2eb I was raised as a girl in the United States and my parents let me go around topless on hot days when I was a toddler, but stopped allowing it when I was about 4 years old. I found the sudden change in rules somewhat baffling. Nothing about me had changed.

[@Kagomai15]

God yes I have a vivid memory from when I was 3 and shamed for being topless, and it just continued from there

[@crazydragy4233]

I remember taking my shirt off before I started puberty with two boys around who did it first because it was hot and we were playing with water (who wants a wet shirt stuck to them) and they looked at me funny and stuff. I couldn't understand why. It's sad how young this bs starts 😑

[@samsopro9618]

In Sweden it's actually completely legal to go topless or even fully naked in public, regardless of what your body looks like. HOWEVER: You can still get reported for indecent behaviour if you intended to make people uncomfortable with your nudity.

[@awkwardcutie]

I'm swedish but I thought it was illegal and counted as harassment if you do it in public like where's there's a lot of people 😭 It says that swimming naked is completely legal tho at any beach as long as you have like no bad intentions 😭 But yeah we learn something new ig 😅 glad it's legal kinda at least 😭

[@katetrompvanholst1772]

We have similar laws in Oregon, USA. So many people swim naked in parks and rivers and most people go naked in public, natural hot springs. It’s still illegal to whack off and do sexual things, but not just being naked.

[@muffinbutton2873]

The “as long as minors aren’t around” kills me the most. We’re just teaching young girls to be ashamed of puberty, as their bodies mature, and young boys that maturing girls bodies are sex objects.

[@einfachda351]

My favorite argument against showing your boobs is ˋwhat about the children????´ Like breasts and nipples aren‘t the most natural thing and it‘s only all the men without self control out there, that view them as inherently sexual

[@deedeedussard]

The same children who probably bathed with their mothers so saw them anyway

[@Envy_May]

it'd be better for children to be used to seeing them so that they don't make such a mystified big deal over it when they grow up

[@peiithos]

children dont care unless you MAKE them care. like i didnt care about being topless or not until my parents started shaming me for doing so and shaming me for not having bras on. i wouldnt have cared if a person with breasts went topless if people didnt MAKE me care about it.

[@Ava-nf2qq]

children literally exist due to titties

[@VannahSavage]

@NotVille_ you make it so easy to report you for spam. I guess I was wrong - you don’t even have two braincells to rub together.

[@ADubbs-fd8xf]

Something somebody said on tumblr that I liked was: breasts are not inherently sexual, but I am sexual about breasts. Basically meaning you can be attracted to a person's body and just go about your business cause it's not they problem lol. I am, in fact, attracted to breasts, and that's fine. People shouldn't have to modify they behavior because of my attraction, being attracted to someone doesn’t mean you get to leer at them, you can just be like (to yourself) "damn, nice." And go on about your day without trying to harm anyone.

[@Riskofdisconnect]

An easy way to conceptualize this is to think about abs or tummies. Nobody thinks someone's abs or tummy is inherently sexual, but people can be attracted to them or not and it's not a big deal if they're out and about, it's just a choice.

[@thesevenkingswelove9554]

​@@Riskofdisconnect in India its okay for women in saries to show their tummy, however if you show a bit of legs Or wear crop tops and tight leggings, it's "inappropriate". But it's okay to show your whole tummy if it's sari

[@Sprinklgrl]

Yep I think the whole “my sexual attraction is the person I’m attracted to’s problem/sexual feelings mean I have to act on them” is part of what causes SA

[@RGBEAT]

Yeah, which is what happens with male toplessness.

[@XiaoIsMyHusbandBTW]

@@Bradley_Lute the delusion

[@IsabellaGreen-rb1yt]

This is a bizarre phenomenon for me as an autistic trans woman 😂 as a kid, i was forced to take my shirt off outside even when i didnt want to, but now I'll go to jail if i do the same. I'll go to a male jail, as you well know, all for showing "female" breats.

[@jougjimmadome]

my autistic trans masc self being afraid to take off my shirt to swim bc of being forbidden from taking it off as a child. If only people could recognize that a couple more fat cells don't mean anything, absolutely bizarre. I wish you peace trans cousin!

[@Omniseed]

I misread that as 'an authentic trans person' and just thought 'well as long as they're genuine about it...'

[@sandy_carpetsthesecond5013]

I'm sorry but the irony of a trans woman showing her yiddies in public and getting sent to a male jail honestly makes me giggle

[@asterismos5451]

there was a great news story of a trans woman being denied the right to get a driver's licence marked as female so she went outside the dmv and took her shirt off and immediately got arrested for being a woman with no shirt on (this was intentional, to point out the hypocrisy and indecisiveness of the law about her gender). In some American state where it's illegal for women to be topless, I can't remember.

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

The cognitive dissonance is so real in this society. You cannot rationalize it lmao

[@fancyhughes]

It’s frustrating because we even get a hard time for being braless. I went out to run an errand and I didn’t wear my bra because I’m big breasted and bras are uncomfortable sometimes. When I got home I was lectured about how I’m tempting men to sin. What’s also ridiculous is this notion that shirtless men can’t arouse women or people attracted to men (but among Christians it’s always cis-het women because everyone else doesn’t matter or exist). Men are the sexual creatures who can’t control themselves, women are not, but women and feminine presenting people have to be policed. It’s bullshit. I love Janelle Monaé. They make me feel validated in my body and gender identity. I’m happy for them and can’t wait to see how they evolve more.

[@bryna7]

I'm a hetero woman and don't get turned on by a man until I know his personality and know he's not a POS. He can have whatever kind of body. I don't get hot and bothered by looking at shirtless men. In fact, I usually judge men that fit the male ideal and assume they are egotistical. That is not the case with most men. Even men on the left talk about how hot Lauren boebert is despite her being a bad person.

[@omfgacceptmyname]

👏

[@anonymousone9699]

The other day I was hanging out with friends in downtown Montreal, then a big group of nudists passed by us completely bare like their name. I felt so empowered to see so many people being free. I just stood there and cheered for them. I think they were protesting something or bringing awareness to something. There were no signs, but I loved it. It was absolutely not sexual or even inappropriate. They just were free.

[@sleepykitty1985]

Every year at my university there is a nude bike ride on Earth Day. They paint themselves green, but they're still nekked. Love it :) Wouldn't do it, it's COLD, but very happy they do it.

[@bryna7]

Not hygienic. It grosses me out when girls with shorts that have their ass cheeks out sit in a restaurant or movie theater...I don't care if you fit the beauty mold, I don't want to sit in your butt juices.

[@mekannatarry1929]

Ahh yes, people saying the human body being disgusting; for a while now I've come to a conclusion that anyone who has a problem when someone, particularly a woman, isn't robed from the neck down are just turned on by what they see and just won't admit it.

[@CookiesRiot]

Basically Claude Frollo in Hellfire, but real life.

[@SplatterInker]

100% they're projecting their disgust at themselves onto other ppl.

[@feralhomunculus]

Yes. That's 100% what this is about. I don't think that's a secret, though. This is largely an American issue. It's largely a religious issue. This country was started by Christian puritanicals who believed a woman's body is inherently sinful. Eve tempted Adam with the apple of original sin, right? They believe a woman's body/sexuality tempts men to uncontrollable lust, and it's not the man's fault. It's rubbish, of course. Men are obviously responsible for their own lust and behavior. But this is why it's illegal for women to show their nipples here, but not men. Also, maybe we should choose our battles carefully at a moment in time when the Christofascists are in office actually creating laws to make just being who people are illegal and stripping us of bodily autonomy. Is this the hill to die on right now? But yeah, I've been fighting for this for years. I've marched and protested topless since the late 80s. I'm just marching for other issues right now.

[@sevenblack5227]

"If I can't have it, than you can't show it!"

[@SgtFrog-yy3vd]

it would be great if women could go topless where men could go topless@@youcantusethatasconsentbtw

[@miriamlevenson9430]

once i saw a reddit post with the question, “men, if breasts had a purpose other than looking good, what would you have them do?” and that was the day my soul died

[@ZedAmadeus]

fuckin' take me out, I've seen enough lmao

[@emilyonizuka4698]

I remember being like 11 or 12 and my parents telling me I needed to start wearing a bra and I was like no but they were like we can literally see your boobs through your shirt you could get arrested for that, and that was why I started wearing bras. I don't anymore (I have very small boobs so there isn't really much to support). also, I was thinking in regards to janelle monae showing their titties but also having the wealth and privilege to do so, I think that's actually a proper use of privilege. using your privilege to start conversations that will hopefully help other people who are less privileged than you is what I think a proper use of privilege is.

[@LeafyK]

Good point about use of privilege. I relate hard to the parental pressure even though the tissue didn't develop into much of anything

[@kai_fatallysapphic]

recently i stopped wearing bras too, I've only worn sports bras but I still don't like the pressure on my rib cage. i do wear a sports bra if i go out, or just layer a couple comfy tops, just because im worried of my nipples showing. it's silly because my mom goes out like that all the time, i see other women like that all the time too. maybe it's in part because im nonbinary, im not dysphoric of having boobs, but i don't want others to perceive them and gender me more feminine

[@jackr.4953]

I've always found the American relationship with breasts to be odd. I am a transgender man. I still have a chest. But I pass as male without issues. I am now "allowed" to go to a beach and take off my shirt, but I was not "allowed" when I was a teenager. It is the same body. The same flesh. But the moment it is seen as female flesh, it is obscene. As a man, my body is my own. When I was seen as a woman, it was a subject of social consumption and I was responsible for how it was consumed.

[@andybryan7151]

One of my greatest irritations when I was younger was that the boys could take their shirts off and I had to wear a bra AND a shirt. I hated clothes anyway but I told my grandma that I wanted to grow up to be a boy so I could run around without a shirt on when it was hot. I still kind of want to be a boy but it's for much different reasons now. 💚💚💚💚💚

[@treacherousjslither6920]

Why do you want to be a boy now?

[@TheBookofBeasts]

My experience with having large breast is that I got them and I wasn’t a person anymore. It was like I became my boobs. Everyone treated me differently. I have put my hand in front of my chest and waved it at men who were staring at them to snap them out of it, while saying things like “Hi my name is Elizabeth. I am up here.” I fully support all people with breast being free to be topless. For me personally I feel physically more comfortable with support. I also feel safer. It is hard for me to imagine ever feeling comfortable topless within the greater American culture as it is presently.

[@tessarae9127]

I feel the same way and I’m part of the itty bitty tittie committee 😂 Not necessarily because of people objectifying my breasts but lately I have been processing a sort of trauma I had when I developed breasts way later than everyone else my age (I remember ONE other girl who was as flat as me) 😭 My mom like celebrated the fact that I didn’t have breasts because she didn’t want to ha e breasts. And so she was also super happy that I “didn’t need a bra” and so basically I was one of the only people in my middle school who didn’t have a bra and had pokies, REALLY bad self esteem bc of it and got bullied, and was too shy to initiate the conversation of getting a bra myself. Hey, I was living my mom’s dream so she was completely oblivious to my reality 😓 Basically because of this and so many other things (It’s literally harder to “look” skinny when you don’t have boobs, we have that image of a perfect body thrown in our face 100x a day too)- I find that I am way more confident and feel more free when I have a bra. I’m also high functioning autistic and on the asexual spectrum and accidentally got myself in a situation where I was sexually abused bc I didn’t understand why other people sexualize boobs so yeah hindsight is 20/20, you gotta look out for yourself in a world that worships sex 😅

[@TheBookofBeasts]

@@tessarae9127 Thank you for sharing all that. It is interesting we are on the complete opposite sides of the spectrum. I got them first and they were bigger than everyone else’s. I wanted to be in the middle, developing with everyone else and a size that wasn’t so noticeably different.

[@sapphic.flower]

Yes, call out the men who act supportive of women's sexual liberation primarily because they feel allowed to be voyeurs! 👏👏 It's like when men adopted the "looking respectfully" term so they can openly objectify us and not recognize it's creepy. That's not how that works and it kills me how men think they found a loophole 🙃🙃

[@grilledcheese-]

See this doesn’t make sense to me. If it’s not sexual then how could they be objectifying us. We can’t have it both ways. Either it’s not sexual at all and when we’re topless any man who looks at us is just being curious, or our breasts are kinda sexual and a man who stares is objectifying us and being creepy. I’ve never pushed a partner away and said “sorry, please don’t touch/look at my breasts, they’re not sexual” and I would guess that 99% of us haven’t done that either, wonder why? Should we break up with anyone who is attracted our boobs because they’re objectifying us…

[@genovasquez8361]

its nothing wrong with looking

[@sapphic.flower]

@@genovasquez8361 there's a time and a space for indulging yourself and objectifying women under the presumption you're doing it in a "respectful" or harmless way is misguided. The same way the video talks about how people with breasts should be allowed to be topless without getting looked at indecently. It's why women don't walk around topless even if it's legal, we don't want to "allow" being looked at.

[@delrayking5724]

Nothing is good enough for you guys. Everything is problematic.

[@genovasquez8361]

@@sapphic.flower we gonna look any way because we are men. Go ahead and walk around topless and bottomless. Give us all something exciting to see. We will look with our male gaze full of lust and desire because we can.

[@novacaine_]

In the UK it seems women are allowed to go topless but theres the social stigma to consider so they don't

[@abby2577]

same here in canada, it’s totally legal just not socially acceptable

[@bevishhh]

It's iffy. Technically anybody can be topless, but if someone takes offence to some wild boobs and can in any way prove that there may have been intent to cause shock, outrage, or offence, then the boob owner will potentially (probably) be in trouble.

[@deedeedussard]

I think that's why we have so many nudist beaches here one summer I went on a uk nudist beach mission. But found one near me and kept going back. I can honeatly say there is nothing better than on that hot weeek spending a day at the beach naked titties just out in the wild and swimming in the sea in my natural state. I first thought there would be lots of lookie lous but its actually ok. I spent a lot of time topless in ibiza too and mine are not small at all.

[@268anita]

@@abby2577I had no idea it was legal here in Canada…

[@stingrae919]

Yeah. It’s the same in the part of the US I live in. It’s totally legal for a woman to go topless, but not socially acceptable.

[@knitmore3]

When I breast fed almost 30 years ago it was radical to breast feed in public. The first child had me all timid and breastfeeding in places like the women’s bathroom. The second child I didn’t care.

[@DLF-xq9lq]

When you get older, you'd think that the creepy males would leave you alone but the creepiness just changes into disgust. I have heard so many men saying that older women or larger women are gross and that their bodies shouldn't be seen in public.

[@lidu6363]

If we normalize seeing liberated nipples around, it won't be treated as some sort of achievement to see them, and they won't be so sexualized. You know, like ankles...

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

I wish it'd work like that........but I don't think it will, at least not in the Anglosphere.

[@dottyContrarian]

@@rejectionisprotection4448 if we could move from men having to be covered to shirtlessness being the norm, then i think we can do the same for women, eventually...

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

@@dottyContrarian Actually no; it'll make life considerably worse for women.

[@actualgoblin]

@@rejectionisprotection4448 how

[@dottyContrarian]

@@rejectionisprotection4448 the culture that will need to have been cultivated for this change to happen will make it so that is not true.

[@Ann3Ric3]

in many polish beach cities theres a movement to ban "undressed" people from restaurants and shops which honestly applies most largely to topless men which i think is interesting

[@polarmere6312]

do you know anymore about this or like why the attitudes towards men is like that? is it specifically towards skinny/fat men or does there not seem to be a distinction there?

[@Imbatmn57]

The rule in the us for most places is no shirts,no shoes, no service.

[@ruminationstation4200]

I'm very ok with this, I don't think topless people belong indoors in businesses personally, but my issue is the double standards.

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@youcantusethatasconsentbtw Who are you to define "decency"? What about a person without a shirt is inherently indecent other than society tells us it is so?

[@onthecomet2802]

Interesting. In France, both men and women can be topless on the beach, but as soon as you go back to "the city", (generally understood from the sidewalk near the beach), it is illegal for both men and women to be topless.

[@AndEzutarian]

I find the quote about women in historical India only wearing tops if belonging to a certain class fascinating bc it made it sound like the lower class women were prevented from covering their breasts, indicating an opposite problem from what we have in modern America. The use of laws around clothes as a universal tool of class separation and/or gender oppression makes me sad. Everybody (every body) should have freedom over how they dress.

[@krazyknaklutz901]

I just want to expand on this as a Malayalee. It was a breast tax that affected the lower caste Hindus. If they wanted to cover their chests, they needed to pay a certain amount based on the weight of their breasts. So the larger your breasts, the more money you had to pay to cover your breasts. Christianity and Islam were in the region that is now referred to as Kerala prior to colonialism. Christian and Muslim women did not have to pay a breast tax. So as you deduced, it was more about caste separation. Having to pay to cover your breasts in a way acknowledges modesty in some ways. Especially when the Abrahamic religions in the region were not forced to participate in this tax. Maybe because I'm mallu, but I find how Christianity, Islam and Hinduism have coexisted over centuries. Especially the shift on societal norms from precolonialism to post colonial society.

[@ithinkiknowme6450]

@@krazyknaklutz901woa as an Indian muslim living in India.. I didn’t knew this.. thank you for sharing this..

[@Aradhaya45720]

​​@@krazyknaklutz901 I mean at that time no one was Muslim or Christian ( maybe some Christian in Kerala) All Indians were Hindu only before invasion of Mughals and British. Caste also come very late in Hinduism. Before caste system all people don't used to cover their breast . It doesn't consider as sexual at that time. When Mughals came there were lots of rape was happening towards hindu women. And then two things happen.... sati pratha and covering their whole body. They were introduced to save women's from Mughals .... As they were seeing them as sexual object. That's why Still in India covering your bodies is important specially in rural areas .

[@Aradhaya45720]

​​@@krazyknaklutz901 in kerala religion come in very different way. They changed their religion for trading and other reasons. In North religion was forced on people.... India is such a vast country... Every state or at that time regions have diff rulling system . And diff rules.

[@dylanrodrigues]

@@Aradhaya45720 there were Muslims and Christians in India well before either the Mughals and British came lol, stop spreading right wing propaganda

[@andreja9425]

being a trans woman, as I was growing up it was so liberating to just be able to be shirtless whenever necessary (especially as a runner). Now that I’ve been on hrt a while I cant really get away with it and I feel I’m constantly hyper aware of my nipples and their legal status. Even my mom and sister will chastise me from wearing slightly transparent clothes without a bra. For example recently they had a huge problem with a dress I was wearing around our extended family (it was the only thing I had in my car other than work clothes that were soaked in espresso). Im like “it’s my family! They should not be seeing my body as sexual in any context!” It’s been really really frustrating. Our bodies aren’t inherently sexual, it is the gaze of others that is what sexualizes. These prude regulations about obscenity are absurd.

[@AirborneAshes]

i feel like trans women being inherently sexualised in some spaces may feed into this attitude :( i hope they realise their fallacy sooner

[@bryna7]

Why do people assume that people that are uncomfortable with things like this are just sexually attracted to you. I'm not sexually attracted to women, but I have been so affected by media and society my whole life that I'm not comfortable with the idea of letting people that could be bad people look at my body. And I'm not a prude...ask my husband.

[@andreja9425]

@@bryna7 it’s not that anyone is sexually attracted to me, I don’t have to be nude for people to express that to me. It is that society puts this sexual gaze and emphasis onto certain body parts. It is not quite universal, culturally or historically and not everyone sees each other that way even here, but we are all expected to follow these fairly arbitrary rules and to abide by these social standards and to monitor the ways in which we are/can be perceived. I was a runner and also sometimes do modeling, attended art/fashion school and have made trips to bathhouses and spas. Because of this I do not see nudity as a sexual thing, I am used to seeing people naked/being naked in spaces that are not sexual and because of this I am desensitized to it and basically it is normal to me. In many cultures around the world women are bare chested and it is completely non sexual. It is the lens of our culture that pushes us to see these things as sexual or shameful, that is what I have an issue with. We used to see ankles and midriff and hair the same way but now such things are normal. I think the problem is that many people ONLY see other people naked in a sexual context and so nudity to them becomes exclusively sexually related instead of being the natural default form of humans

[@froggydraws_24]

when i was really young i remember seeing a dude running topless in public and being confused and asking my mom why he could do that, and later asking why i couldn’t. in my mind either men gotta put those shirts back on or we should all be able to take them off. i still vibe with this opinion today but more the second half of it esp because i don’t get why people have to be so weird and sexual about bodies (asexual moment lol)

[@mikailagray]

My nephew was raised in a house full of women and we say if we can’t be topless neither can he and now he treats men like society treats top less women. He will always tell a man that they are making him uncomfortable by being topless I find it funny because the guys are always shocked that he is giving that energy.

[@Ava-nf2qq]

🤣 i love that

[@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow]

raising a cuck the right way ig, you sexualize his body too?

[@rainbowawakening]

I’m from Alberta Canada and it’s illegal to be topless but our two biggest cities have allowed you to be toplesss in pools only. before colonization, in the summers my Cree ancestors went topless no matter the gender as there wasn’t the same outlook on nudity like colonizers had + then forced onto Native peoples. being forced to be covered up is not only misogyny but continued colonization edit: finished the vid 💚

[@MichelleHell]

I find it strange(?) that colonialism appears to have set humanity back in time, while claiming to bring the population into modernity or "civilized life". The effects of colonialism just seems so primitive to me. Why do they recreate the predator vs prey dynamic among our human civilization? It's like human vs human predation, which is cannabalistic. Colonialism is cannabalistic and violent towards humans. How is this seen as the peak of our humanity? We all know the answer, because some white family is getting rich. Dumb!

[@ithinkiknowme6450]

💯absolutely💚

[@lorrygoth]

I'm a Sapphic trans woman, my disphoria will probably keep me from ever being comfortable topless, but I have always supported bodily equality and find it remarkable that so many sexist laws are still in place to vilify women.

[@sapphic.flower]

I'm also a sapphic trans afab person! I'm also asexual and I want top surgery but it also feels unfair that I would only get to bare my chest in public if I didn't have fat on it anymore because breasts apparently gender me and sexualize my body. To me, gender dysphoria feels like it only exists because other people invented ideas about the body. If tits weren't associated with women, I wonder if I'd feel dysphoria about it at all..

[@lorrygoth]

@ville__ Been there, done that. Supporting this video by saying my piece.

[@captaincaspian42]

@ville__ username checks out

[@lfrands]

@ville__but….doesn’t my world and my opinion revolve around me? Prove me wrong… to myself! I love it😂

[@lorrygoth]

@ville__ Just keep supporting the video by whining.

[@iz3972]

Have we mentioned somewhere before that as someone with a bigger chest you don't even need to be topless to be seen as obscene? And also even in cultures where it's okay to have deeper cut shirts, not wearing a bra and/or have your niple shape show through the shirt is still a huge no-no. Like even before we get to the conversation about any actual exposed skin, it's so much worse than that!!

[@beckyadams4729]

Imagine if we treated men's beards like we treat women's breasts. They are both secondary sexual characteristics. There is no reason to treat these differently. Imagine if we required men to wear beard caps?

[@sapphic.flower]

I'm so sick of how femme bodies are sexualized as a whole. I remember in middle school, seeing my principal chat with a male student who was outside topless and proceeded to not do anything about it when girls weren't even allowed to wear tank tops because it exposes our shoulders??? And one of the school heads wanted to ban yoga pants and leggings, which was only what girls wore, because of how tight they were. 💀 Like maybe fire the teachers who are trying to see through our pants?! I also remember when I was wearing a crop top and was talking to a teacher in post-secondary, he just stared at my stomach the whole time. My friend wore a T-shirt to school once but a teacher was checking her out in it so she wore sweaters to school all the time after that. In some countries, women are forced to cover up their entire bodies but they still get blamed and penalized for getting r*ped (and that's semi the case in the west too, it's just not written) and many indigenous people of various countries didn't cover up their breasts until Christian colonialism that also justified the r*pe of women of colour for how they dressed. Like our entire body is just sexualized. Even the parts we're "allowed" to show are still treated like a treat for others when its literally just body parts that don't have the same affect when it's on a man. It doesn't even matter if we dress modestly because as long as people know that under our clothes are breasts and hips, wether or not they can make it out, we're automatically sex objects. I hate it so much, especially as an asexual trans person, I get zero liberation out this. I want to exist comfortably in my skin and walk around shirtless like men without being objectified and gendered for it.

[@itznia_ok8069]

Exactly

[@0fficialselena__90]

I honestly wished that we had our own barbieland land because, it feels like we live in kendom and I hate that we can't wear certain things and limit ourselves around men's minds and behavior like it's disgusting! I literally feel like just a body with no value nor anything because of things like this, and nothing is changing, but even when it does change, those people who are THE problem refuse to do anything.

[@sapphic.flower]

@ville__ you use personality tests to know yourself?? 💀💀

[@abor1males]

I had a male teacher stare at my crotch in his office in a middle of a conversation we were talking then all a sudden he stoped to look at my body I was so shocked 😳

[@abor1males]

@ville__ Stop trying to be edgy

[@alyxxm1019]

when u said it's more socially ok for "masculine presenting people with flat chests" to be topless in public, i almost ripped off my sports bra & walked outside but then i realized you actually meant "fully boobless" LOL 💚

[@KhadijaMbowe]

LOOOOOOL

[@genovasquez8361]

small chested women are a turn on to men as well.

[@alyxxm1019]

@@genovasquez8361 yuuup. in 2019, i thought SF pride would be a safe space for me to be proudly topless as a trans dude. i wore a fishnet shirt and was FEELIN MYSELF. then i caught a (probably) cishet male bystander sneaking photos of me. he didn't care about my mustache, he just saw boobs & wanted to save em to his spank bank :/

[@asheneal6511]

Thas a good heckin title.

[@JeromeProductions]

Yeah lol

[@Habi-Bilal]

Tittle*

[@prettyprincess6209]

I agree with you. I think the only thing thats stopping me and probably other people to do this , is the fear of getting sexualised and assulted

[@whatcanidooo]

I was raised around a bunch of secular hippie granola moms. There were a lot of co-ops and all the parents babysat each other’s kids. It was so normal to see women breastfeeding with their breasts out. We would lift our shirts when pretending to nurse baby dolls, and the little girls would take off their shirts just like the boys would. I remember one day being in a public park, and the boys had all taken off their shirts, and so I wanted to as well, but my mom said I couldn’t because we were out in a public place and people might think it was inappropriate. I was so confused, I had spent my whole life thinking that there was no difference besides nursing between women and men’s chests. If you think about it it’s pretty fucked up that the sexualizing of young girls starts that early. I was like six and my mom had to somehow explain why strangers would think it inappropriate for me to have my shirt off, but not my brother. Even today though, I can’t bring myself to care if my nipples show through my shirt. I’ve never worn a bra consistently despite being a d cup because I find the elastic uncomfortable. It’s just frustrating that society views this the way it does

[@dhalden93]

I feel like the thing that really destroys the enthusiasm for "free the n1pple" discourse is not the people who are vocally against it, but the men who are vocally and creepily for it. There's always some creep in the comments of these posts being like "yeah! I want you to take your shirt off!" And I feel like that would go away but for any individual, that's a very scary person to take your shirt off around 😢

[@private755]

I don’t go shirtless because men have told me not to or it’s illegal or whatever. I don’t do it because I don’t want to paint a gigantic target on myself for creeps to feel like I’m presenting myself for their personal sexual amusement. I would like to enjoy the breeze on my back one day but no the price is way too high.

[@solo8734]

and this is why "free the nipple" wouldn't really work, you can't just "un-creep" people or turn off sexual attraction

[@private755]

@@solo8734it’s ok to be sexually attracted but the creeps are the ones who take what they want

[@DagNabbit-99]

This is definitely relatable because even if there was more social acceptance on being topless, there are so many creeps that would try to take a photo, stalk or harass someone just trying to have the same freedom as male presenting folks.

[@missmimitia228]

This is so true I live in Memphis Tennessee and about 6 years ago we had a free the nipple event and I went not topless but braless and there were so many creepy ass men asking me and some of the topless women for hugs and just taking pics

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@solo8734 Hey, guess what, dude who likes boobs here, as a man who has the barest minimum obligation to treat the people around me, men and women, as human beings deserving of basic respect and decency, it is 100% my obligation to not act like a weirdo around people, even if I find them attractive. Nobody has to "turn off" their sexual attraction, but I see hot people all the time, and I don't stare at them for long periods or act entitled to view or touch their body or say gross things to them because I think they're hot. I treat people how I damn well want to be treated, and it ain't like that. You, and if fact every other guy baring maybe if they've got a severe mental deficiency, can see a women topless and leave them well enough alone to go about whatever they're doing without you acting weird about them being a topless woman, even if you like their breasts.

[@tamaramoody1038]

I grew up in Boise, ID and breastfeeding in public is a pretty contentious topic. There are plenty of people who agree and say "my baby is hungry, I'm going to feed it", and a very loud majority who scream about it being gross or scandalous. I wasn't allowed to nurse my son in front of my dad's FAMILY but it wasn't weird in other family houses. I nursed my son at an Olive Garden once and it was pretty chill, but I had to nurse him at a local swimming pond and got a lot of side eyes and even weird man staring. Now I live in a much smaller town in OK and I couldn't imagine anyone nursing in public. It's a very different pocket of culture. Free the nipple!

[@lauraprescott1314]

I'm in Oklahoma and I breastfeed anywhere I needed to. Never had a thing said to me.

[@tamaramoody1038]

@@lauraprescott1314I'm SO glad you got to experience that. :) That's amazing, really.

[@mundanepants]

imo, the US has huge issue with nudity in general. Like nudity is automatically seen as a sexual or sensual thing. When it's just nakedness. People are hecking weird looking naked, even the Insta models. I don't know how anyone sees that as sexual. It's like looking at clown cars and going "Yeah, that's porn"

[@ophelieb.1257]

Janelle Monae actually said something very interesting about it recently, they said that for the longest time they tried to hide their chest because they were uncomfortable with it regarding their gender identity and now they feel more at peace with their chest that's why they don't care anymore about showing it and I think this is a really important thing to be considered too like being okay with your big boobs when you're non binary and fem presenting is always seen as if you're not really nb bc it's not "androgynous" enough, when actually non binarity is about not putting people into those boxes

[@EH012]

Great research! 💚 I'm a Malayali woman, I was startled to hear historical context from Kerala. Yeah, used to be a matrilineal society, but only in terms of inheritance. As is still the case in India, lower income levels amongst women correlated to more physical freedom to move about outside the house but less access to resources, including education. So the women from rich families were trapped indoors and covered up, while those from poorer families did manual and domestic labour and weren't allowed to cover their breasts. Loss of autonomy and agency both ways 😧 And that doesn't even cover the caste stuff

[@Chloe-ru2eb]

Why is it that it was a privilege to cover breasts? If they weren't sexualized (as much) and it was an ordinary fact of life, what benefit would it bring to cover them? Was it just a status symbol or was there something more to it?

[@EH012]

@@Chloe-ru2eb here's a link to a Wikipedia page that contains cited sources and explanations: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_tax#cite_note-ChannarRevolt-20. Quote: "During the time of Travancore, uncovering one's breasts was revered as a symbolic token of homage from the lower castes towards the upper castes. A state-law prevented this covering, which served to demarcate the caste hierarchy in a prominent manner, and often served as the core locus of spontaneous rebellions by lower castes." It was overt control of the bodily autonomy of a "lower" caste. The oppression of the caste system was a pretty big motivator for people to be receptive to missionaries and convert to Christianity, which is when the revolts came to a head and the law was changed. But history is messy, and another aspect to it is that leaving the chest uncovered *started out* normal and not sexualized for both genders, the "covering" was apparently just a shoulder cloth. That changed with British influence and the imposition of Victorian morality. Here's an article about that: www.telegraphindia.com/culture/style/the-breast-tax-that-wasnt/cid/1803638. As the article says, hard to pin down the facts, because it's all oral tradition

[@killuazoldyckhunter]

@@Chloe-ru2eb I'm not really sure about it, but I felt that it was a sentiment rooted in a dehumanizing factor. Upper caste people dehumanize people from lower caste and many such dehumanizing acts still persist today in India. Again, not sure about history, but there is a mindset that covering up shows their dignity or some shit. And the upper caste mentality could be that people are denied of their dignity as they are dehumanized

[@killuazoldyckhunter]

same, I jumped when I saw that too.

[@Greenarchy]

Free them! As a masc presenting person in the USA, I actually feel uncomfortable being topless because of the unfair laws/customs around femme toplessness. Thank you for all you do💚

[@Bobavakian42069]

Not sure that “masc” and “femme” as replacements for man and woman work here lol. As a butch/masculine woman it would probably be actively dangerous for me to be topless in public. Especially when lesbianism as a social transgression is often punished by sexual violence.

[@faeriegraver]

"Masc" and "femme" work just fine in this context, as this person could be non-binary. OP has not stated their gender identity, nor what gender they were assigned at birth, so as a general statement it makes sense. The only way it stops making sense is if we make assumptions about OP.

[@Cynnas]

🤣🤣🤣 Unfair? 🙄 The culture in "the west" and elsewhere around the world takes into account that a woman's breasts are secondary sex organs that are visual signals of sexual maturity. That's where the culture arose from and you cannot so easily change that just like you cannot so easily change a society's use of it's language use (masc, pronouns, the definition of woman)

[@Bobavakian42069]

@@faeriegraver this has nothing to do with the original commenters gender. It has to do with the fact that toplessness isn’t punished based on someone’s femininity, it’s punished based on their perceived sex (in this case wether or not they have breasts)

[@faeriegraver]

​@@Bobavakian42069I understand that. I'm a cis woman. I would assume most people take me as "femme", despite the fact that I almost always wear baggy men's clothing, I wear steel toe cap boots all year round, men's deodorant and cologne, and I don't often wear makeup. But I'm kind of small, and I usually have long hair, when I cut it I don't go to a salon. When I was a child I was told I "looked male" all the time, but it doesn't happen now I'm an adult. I was just pointing out that OP's comment makes sense. The creator of this video is both non-binary and femme. I would imagine most people look at them and assume she/her. They tried to use inclusive language in this video. Being as there's a person spamming "woman*" in this thread when that's just an assumption to the point that I'm not even sure what part they're "correcting" makes me think it doesn't make sense to assume.

[@Cyanopteryx]

So I'm in WA state and the county I live in allows b00b nudity if someone is breastfeeding, but not otherwise. Interestingly enough, the initial legislation worded it as "persons who are breastfeeding". One of the councilwoman proposed to change the wording to say "women" but that appeal was rejected by the other council members because "person" is inclusive to trans and enby people who breastfeed :) as an enby parent who did breastfeed my kid, this makes me happy. However I'm pretty bummed that I still can't go topless otherwise :P

[@Sam..123]

I have the same experience as a enby trans man who breastfed I just want to be able to still take my shirt off. 💚

[@arol1644]

⁠@@Sam..123 I’m not even trans masc and I’m starting to consider getting a mastectomy. I just want to be shirtless, or to wear a shirt without having to wear a bra bc it isn’t socially acceptable to do so, at least where I live.

[@oergpoerg4658]

Based council.

[@TheAwesomes2104]

I think the breast feeding exception really highlights the fact that they view our bodies as not our own. If we have them out in any other context, then it's "for" men, and if you have them out to feed a baby, it's for the baby. You aren't allowed to have them out for yourself, you can't just be burning up, if they're out it is assumed it is for the erotic pleasure of men and how dare you "force" men to think dirty thoughts in places they shouldn't be thinking dirty thoughts.

[@missalboogie]

When I was 5, I tried to free my nipple in South Florida because I was hot and boys could do it. I didn’t even think I was different or wrong because I saw my brothers and Dad with their shirts off all the time. The whole neighborhood was screaming at me. My mother came home and told me I couldn’t because one day I’d have breasts. I was so angry.

[@princeofbohemia]

💚 a few years ago i took an art class and one of our last projects was a nude study and one of my classmates was freaking out because the idea of being in proximity to a naked woman in a semi-public/professional setting was so scandalous to her, and afterwards she mentioned how extremely non-sexual it was, and i think of that every damn time someone freaks out about stuff like this.

[@sneedmando186]

Hi. Long time watcher, just a dad trying to improve. I think it’s on us men/masc people to be mature about it. We need an overhaul about how we handle that as a culture(where I am anyways) Someone being unclothed shouldn’t necessarily make it sexual, and it doesn’t. Cultural and social expectations have made people’s body parts constantly and almost exclusively sexualized. But I don’t have to tell y’all it’s the patriarchy, y’all know this! Edit: 13:18 nailed it!

[@rebeccacaroe7111]

unfortunately, we've got a long way to go, since a clothed/braless n!pple that just happens to be sticking out gets people up in arms. As someone who physically can't wear bras (scarring from clavicle surgery messed up my nerves), it honestly shocked me how much backlash I got when I just stopped wearing them. Like people were high key offended, as if I'd become this evil "man hating feminist" while simultaneously begging for male attention ; didn't realize my t!ts held so much power lol. That Rihanna clip always pops into my mind when someone wants to say something or be looking at me side eye. People need to get over themselves

[@v_nix]

In Belgium, being topless on the beach is allowed but.... only when you're sitting or lying down. 😂 As soon you want to walk, to take a swim for instance, you need to wear a top. 🙄 As a 55y old mom with a small A-cup (and yes, I breastfed my 2 kids) many men have bigger b00ps than mine. 😅 But bc they have 5 or more chest hairs they can swim topless. And yes, the trend is going backwards here. Topless was popular before the 2000, now it's more and more looked down upon. Weird sh*t, imho. Seems as if social media puts us all in a mold, made in the US. 🤔 When it rains over there, we feel (some) drops... Anyhow, great vid. TY. 💚💚💚

[@itsjessguys7005]

It makes me sad to think about but many African women were completely comfortable with being topless. It wasn’t until they were brought to the United States that is, them topless often was because they were feeding the master children or in a demeaning hyper sexual manner. There’s a clear difference between empowerment and lack of respect. Janelle has been one of the most influential voices for a while and I will continue to support.

[@magnusbooth4719]

This is a purely US American problem. I used to have a non monetized KZbin channel with some 3000 movie trailers. KZbin took it down after a couple of years for including trailers with images of topless women among them. So films rated G in my country (which most of them where, i think the worst was PG-13), KZbin considered pornography. They also gave me a strike for a trailer KZbin itself hosted in their movie section. And they banned a teaser image of a "naked" showroom dummy. I was finally banned me for having a trailer for a Cheryl Dunye movie, which had been up for 3 years or so at the time.

[@Rudolph386]

I’m a nudist, and going to nude spaces has really helped me normalize not only the breasts are not inherently sexual, but that all bodies are not inherently sexual. I took my female friend to my local nude beach and we just had a great time playing in the water and building a sand castle. I have a much more healthy relationship with my body and all other bodies when I can see bodies as just things that exist and not things to be gawked at. Also, even in places where being topless is legal, there is still so much social pressure for women to cover their breasts that very few women actually can still feel free in public and that makes me sad.

[@zana9402]

Hello, I'm currently based in Berlin, Germany. Here nobody cares, you have to be naked in most spas, there are nudist beaches and you might encounter naked people in Parks. It is very common here!

[@Purple_raven28]

It’s unfortunately becoming less common because of social media and some disgusting men taking pictures.

[@haileys5224]

I haven’t worn a bra for about 5 years now. I still wear shirts, but obviously my nipple outlines are visible I hate how even it’s seen as salacious.

[@sleepy-kj3cs]

Thank you for talking about this! I had a similar conversation with my mother since I've been catcalled on occasion because I wasn't wearing a bra and i have a small chest. Its so frustrating and would really like for the sexualization and stigma to stop eventually. It's so hot out here fr 💚💚

[@04thQueen]

I've just discovered your channel, and even though it's on the background while I work, I was grinning and giggling so many times. I LOVE your energy and I'm definitely subscribing and binging you 💚💚💚

[@liveonvenus]

I’m always under the notion that the enforced modesty of women contributes to SA because it’s creates the illusion of forbidden fruit. If the only time your seeing the full female form is in a sexual context you truly can never appreciate ALL that it is. 💚💚💚💚

[@electronics-girl]

This! This is absolutely so true!

[@AuntyKsTarot]

I’m Ontario Women have been able to go topless legally since the late 90’s but socially allowed is a whole other thing. My mom friends and I (I’m Indigenous so BBIPOC friends) used it when our neighbourhood was gentrified - we hung out in the park topless so the rich white moms would stop bringing their kids **traveling to TO day of the music concert - not sure if we will arrive in time or be in the road.

[@rejectionisprotection4448]

Weaponise nipple exposure to safeguard your safe space; I like it.

[@electronics-girl]

That reminds me a little bit of how my bisexual friend and his husband flew their Pride flag every day while the house next door to them was up for sale, to make sure a homophobe didn't buy it.

[@legendswarble2845]

For real tho. A body part is just a body part. People got foot fetishes but I shouldn't have to hide my feet in public just cause I might turn someone on. I used to be quite bashful about women's breasts which is such bs because I am fully asexual. It does nothing for me. It was definitely some societal conditioning I had to get over as I got older. Finding out that it used to be the same for men really solidifies for me that chests are chests and that's the end of the story. 💚

[@whatcanidooo]

Yeah the foot fetish thing is such a good example. Like people should be taught that it is their own job to act appropriately, not that it is other people’s jobs to protect them from their own thoughts. The truth is anything about a person could turn someone else on, people have all sorts of kinks and fetishes. But the point is it shouldn’t be the other person’s problem

[@naolucillerandom5280]

People need to remember the original purpose of clothes was because we are furless and therefore weak to sun exposure and cold temperatures. NOT because some ancient man was embarrassed that the ladies were looking at his butt too much, and decided to ban butt exposure. I can imagine someone in the future going "oh, and they had to cover their feet because they'd be harassed otherwise", ignoring that out streets are not exactly safe for a bare foot 😂

[@mahrinui18]

I've found transitioning (male to female) is surreal for many reasons but one of the big ones is how it recontextualizes certain body parts. Unfortunately the titty fairy has not blessed me with anything going on that I didn't have as a boy, but I still feel like now I can't show it off even though it barely changed

[@kalraevyn7444]

Another fantastic essay! I'm a cishet ND male and grew up having the same thoughts, why is it a big deal? etc. The justifications given were misogyny, religion, misogyny and religion, or just plain ole "those are for sex" (Like what?). My high school cousin doesn't have a great support network for her to safely explore her identity as a human. She recently asked me about a wide variety of things, shared stories of me being her age, mistakes I made, etc. but this is a whole nother ballgame. Introducing her to your content is helping me to arm her with the language she needs to assert herself. I'm looking forward to hanging out with her next time and hear her thoughts! Peace 💚

[@frenzy2061]

I'd never be able to walk around topless myself and I don't know how much of that is because of the obvious stigma and how much is just me as a person but the fact that I'm not ALLOWED to (in a way that isn't met with shock and disgust) has always made me so angry. I just found of that in the UK it's apparently not illegal for anyone to walk around fully naked, but you can be arrested if you did it to 'shock people?' I don't get how you could police something like that because anyone could say you were doing it for shock value even when you weren't. I just think either everybody should be allowed to be topless or nobody should. There shouldn't be rules that only apply to certain bodies like that.

[@lavaxbunni3799]

Thank you for this conversation! We really need to normalize breasts. Even in designated areas people are still creepy and normalization would help keep women safe! I was at a nude beach in the USA and even though it was a “safe space for nudity” there was a man pleasuring himself not too far from where my friend and I were. It’s just sad. It’s truly exhausting feeling like you can’t just exist as a women.

[@kaseynicole8965]

The way the female body is sexualized honestly hits pretty close to home for me, as my body type is deemed 'sexual' I always feel the need to either hide my body, or be sexualized. Literally just today my boyfriend complimented my outfit while we were facetiming, in a sexual way which is fine for him to do because he's my boyfriend, I was just wearing shorts and a crop top and I told him thanks but it sucks that I can never wear it out of like, my apartment because of random men thinking the same things as him and staring at/harassing me. Sure enough, as I was still on facetime with him a neighbor of mine looked me up and down in a super creepy & obvious way as I was just walking back to my apartment after grabbing something from my car. I can't even step 10 feet outside of my own apartment without getting sexualized by total strangers and it sucks. I would really love to be able to dress comfortably in hot weather without always getting unwanted attention!

[@starfruitiger]

@NotVille_ terrible person alert

[@weepingwillow314]

super insightful video, ive thought the same thing for years, i started going topless especially during covid, there was a lake near my moms house and i remember some people giving me weird looks but also i dont care. i think my newer issue is that i used to be an a cup and now im c-d so my comfort has changed a bit, but im always down to show off more. ive always thought the double standard was so stupid. it really does stem from control more than anything. thank you for sharing this very important often overlooked topic.

[@Smiley_Fruitcake]

In my country (Aotearoa) theres no specific law against nudity, even full body nudity. This being said, there is a law against obscene or indecent exposure and offensive or disorderly behavior. So if someone were to complain, you could get in trouble, but there are places where being topless as a fem is generally accepted. There are some nude beaches and you if you know your area and you know no one would complain if you were topless, you could probably do it. regularly don't wear a bra and I often wear very little as a whole, my country gets really hot.

[@Taradoxxi]

I am really sick of how normalized the word “degeneracy“ has become to describe anything remotely sexy or spicy, because for as many people using it jokingly and lightheartedly not realizing the weight behind it, even more are openly using it as the dogwhistle it is. As a queer Jewish person it genuinely scares me. Anyway. I’m with you. Free the nipple.

[@vicdraws521]

Trans man here, when I was able to show my bare body without legal and social repercussions I started to become more comfortable with my own body and love it more. Yes it's mainly because of the transition, but it's also in the way people see me. If I'm topless on a hot day, I'm just a dude sweating, nothing more, and it still blows my mind

[@locsoluv94]

I also grew up with a topless (in the house) mom. This same mom also told 16 year-old me to cover my chest on an incredibly hot day in a house with no ac. The reason she gave? "It makes Dad uncomfortable." And then I asked Dad, and he said he's not uncomfortable. It's hot. I'm at home. He's shirtless, too. We're all here trying to exist in this heat. Also, he's not an insect-uous PDF-file. To this day, I find it strange that my mother put those traits onto her own husband

[@gina2641]

Honestly, maybe because we as women know, whether we want to acknowledge it consciously or not, that majority of girls sexually abused is by their own fathers, uncles or family members ❤ or maybe your mother has traumatic experiences in her past that like most women, have had to stay silent about ❤

[@bryna7]

I wouldn't want my dad seeing me topless. I was wearing a d cup at 12. I don't appreciate that you all think I'm a weirdo for feeling that way, either.

[@locsoluv94]

@@bryna7 I don't see anyone here saying you or anyone else is weird for feeling that way. If something makes you uncomfortable, then that's that. And you have a right to be comfortable in your own home. What's weird is when someone projects their discomfort onto other people arbitrarily.

[@dianacortes4253]

As a fellow femme enby, yes to all of it. Not for me bc I don't personally feel comfy with showing my body too much, but I want the choice and I want the safety and I want everyone to have that 💚

[@elizabethparker2017]

I absolutely agree with everything you say in this video. I'm someone who would never go topless in public, and I'm uncomfortable around toplessness (men or women). But my comfort level shouldn't control other people's rights. Also, it's a travesty that mothers are ever criminalized for feeding their children! Shame on the criminal justice system for that!

[@kblixt]

People acting surprised at Janelle was so funny to me. She hasn’t been hiding anything if you’ve been paying attention to her career. People need to look at “Yoga” as well

[@HighAsHeckPriestess]

They're pronouns are they them. I had to correct myself 🤭

[@mimipeahes5848]

Some people haven’t actually listened to any of their music and you can really tell who. Like did they miss Screwed? The song that is entirely about fucking and getting fucked? Have they never listened to Q.U.E.E.N.? Did they miss Pink?? I hate all these people acting brand new.

[@chompyoface]

@@HighAsHeckPriestess I believe Janelle Monae uses both they/them and she/her pronouns

[@gabrielladias420]

I rarely ever go out with a bra. I basically only do it if I'm wearing something thin and kinda see-through or if it's a waaaaaay low cut and my babies would get too cold. I used to get some really nasty stares but after moving to a much more progressive state I find out that a lot more women do this here too. It's nice and I don't miss wearing bras at all, even though I started at 22 because I'm trans. Also letting my gray hairs stay nice and put on my head, now that they're getting numerous, feels very good

[@Imbatmn57]

I wear a bra at work but I've started not wearing bras on my days off and at home. I even go without a shirt in my own home.

[@happygucci5094]

Yes Sis!!!! I felt this. Thank you

[@blethr]

i’m 21 and stopped wearing bras around 17-18. i honestly don’t give a shit anymore if people see my nipples, i don’t see my breasts as sexual objects, and i fucking hate bras. not to mention i barely have enough to fill most bras. so i’m gonna do what makes me happy and comfortable. so far, all i’ve gotten is some glances and cheeky smiles but nothing that would scare me.

[@nshtii]

@@blethr is it true ur boobs will sag without wearing a bra?

[@Ava-nf2qq]

same here i stopped caring about what people think. men walk around with their nips showing from their shirt all the time why can’t i? 😂

[@LightGlyphRasengan]

Hi, resident of baltimore maryland. The most recent case for taking down topless discrimination was 2022 in ocean city. It was rejected. The fact that women have to cover up and cant decide for themselves when their chests get to be sexual, is ridiculous. Damn i remeber seeing a vid of a woman topless at the beach get grabbed by a dumb mf as a joke, proceeded to run bacl to his stupid ass friends, only ro get his face rocked by rhe woman he sexually assaulted. I hate it here

[@alexcebada7400]

Mexico City emby here (who happens to have big breasts and is dying with heatstroke), so apparently here you get arrested for 48 hours or you have to pay a fine. If it is your second or third I think you get more time, but the worst part here really is that bribing cops is more common and instead of arresting women who are 'guilty' of this they usually try to get money out of them or directly SA them... Police SA is widely common in here and it doesn't seem like it will end any time soon. 💚

[@Clau-chauNicol]

As a Sierra Leonean British person I VIBE with what you said about having women walking around the house topless. Like, i think the laws on breastfeeding in public changed in the UK in the early 2000s, and I remember there being a big fuss made out of it, but then I remember going to sierra leone and seeing women breast feeding their kids on their doorstep and it not being a big deal. Nudity in my house is very much segregated by gender, but my grandmother and my mother were pretty comfortable just being naked around me just because. Theyd often just ask me to help them wash and dress and stuff, and so I kind of got used to seeing bodies as bodies rather than things that need to be beautiful or sexualised. Idk. Like, of course its different when I step out of the house I feel that social pressure to look at my body differently, but its nice that when I come home I dont need to feel so wierd about my body.

[@Ravensshenanigan]

As a German, there are a lot of places where nudity is completely normalized like on the beach or at saunas but in public it's still indecent, so you can only go topless in designated areas which seems ridiculous

[@anishna_]

the way you had me FLOORED with that first piece of history that men weren't even allowed to be topless !!! puts the whole free the nipple movement into perspective with that one revelation and how the sexualisation of women's bodies really do be the barrier to us all just having our titties out

[@Nayetak]

In Germany, it is now allowed to go topless in more and more public outdoor pools. Although naked people have always bathed next to clothed people at lakes. I would never do that, I would not even go swimming in "normal" swimwear. And here the motto was always: "no one will look something away from you" or "all have the same".

[@rocktheroadtowembley]

There are even a few nude hiking paths in Germany now (e.g. in Lüneburger Heide).

[@ashanein]

The sexualization of breasts mixed with (white) misogyny AND internalized misogyny is just.... An awful mess and damning to women and femmes. Thanks so much for talking about this, K. 💚

[@Mads007]

I was just thinking about this after reading a CPTSD book that listed some examples of sexual abuse at home, one of which was a mom going topless or "dressing skimpily" around the house. I'm not sure what to think about it, to be honest. Looking forward to the video

[@3v3_n]

You had me at boobie controversy! Thanks for another great video Khadija 😌💚

[@revolutionofthekind]

💚 On the way Janelle views their body because theyre nb, I can definitely say that probably factors in. I know a lot of trans mascs and nbs who were raised as girls that as they come into their gender, will begin to view their bodies in an entirely new context (including my own. Even before I had top surgery, the way I lookes at my chest changed wildly) The problem is that it kinda doesnt matter how you present or identify, as many trans men figure out. If you have a particular looking chest or body, people clock you and you could have a full fuckin beard but it wouldnt matter. You are a feminized person, therefore you boobs are indecent so put your shirt on. It sucks, especially if you're around cis men who can be topless, but you get in trouble. All feminized people need the right to have their body be in public and not be sexualized or degraded for it :/ it really is a key factor in liberation. Without bodily autonomy we can never be truly liberated On a related side bar, i know its not how you meant it and it might have just came off wrong, but the way you said "and some people think thats delusional..." didnt uh. Clearly convey if you didnt feel the same way? I dont think you do, but it just wasnt very clear, especially since it was the only time you mentioned recontextualized bodies through trans identity. So idk, maybe a note would be cool? Just wanted to mention it.

[@quirkyblackenby]

They’re nonbinary themself so I doubt they think nonbinary people are delusional.

[@Milk-Facet5]

@ville__ what

[@Ka16Ky28]

Very interesting topic. Being fit also makes a difference. If you are chubby wearing a bikini top will have people looking at you sideways. That's not topless!

[@Cheese_Pope]

An interesting watch. To be honest, the only time(s) I think covering up is ever necessary is for hygiene reasons or if it affects what your doing. Personally, I am limited when I could do this because of my job (working in a lab where everything needs to be clean) and because of my health (poor blood circulation due to Raynaud's Disease), but so long as people are healthy and not wilting flowers, go nutts!!!

[@elijahclaude3413]

SUCH a great video and topic! I've been in full support of #freethenipple for a while. To the point where my femme partner has been more and more comfortable just going without a bra more often. I've also been doing my best to not sexualize breasts as well to make it more comfortable for my femme friends. My mom always complained about how terrible bras were so that really pushed me towards this as well. I think the movement to go braless (unless you really need it ofc for your outfit or comfort) is a big step towards progress.

[@apsaracore]

What I find weird is that a guy got a fake boob for a bet and was featured in S3 of Botched,he cleared had boobs but yet again it wasn't censored cuz as long as it is a man u know it's okayyy like-

[@4BYSSALTEETH]

i wonder what would happen if a man who actually has boobs did something like this. trans, intersex, gynecomastic... would they be treated differently? would it depend on what the rest of their bodies looked like?

[@Nosebleed47692]

​@4BYSSALTEETH It actually has happened! I remember watching a video of a trans man who went shirtless and hadn't gotten top surgery. He wasn't banded from the app like most fems would have been 🤔

[@angelaorange3118]

Been a fan of Janelle Monae since the Metropolis era. Their earlier image/brand was focused on being clothed,nonsexual and androgynous. It was their entire brand to consciously stay in suits to honor their family and the working class. I remember Prince stated in a magazine interview that Janelle's polished image/music could inspire a new generation to stop cursing, pick up instruments and turn away from vulgarity. But looking back on their songs and subject matter, I definitely see that their current image was built from a long journey of self discovery. Janelle's come full circle since they always sung about becoming liberated from societal standards/ideals of identity.

[@ChuckMeIntoHell]

As an AMAB who presents masc I always feel like my voice is less important in conversations like this, but I will say this: this aspect of western society has always been weird to me. Breasts aren't really my thing, so it's not like I just want to see them out all over the place, but it feels weird that it's perfectly acceptable for me to have my nips out in the open for no reason whatsoever, but even in some places where people are allowed to breastfeed in public, they have to throw a blanket on their baby's head, and they still might get harassed. There's an extra weird layer for trans masc folks, where they can only show their chest after top surgery. It's the same skin, same nipples even, but they can't show those nipples until there's less tissue around them? Make it make sense. 💚

[@phelanii4444]

I also just wanna say I think it's great that you are working on making music more accessible to young people. I had to quit playing the flute when I was 13 cause my parents couldn't afford to buy me my own and I had to return the one from the school so others could have a shot at it as well. I wish you, your coworkers and all your students lots of luck and fun with your music! 💚💚

[@tarynperl2735]

I’ve semi recently got top-surgery, but I’m still scared to go topless in public because people still read me as a woman (I’m non-binary). I also don’t know if having an F on my license could mean legal action could be taken against me. Inversely, I’ve seen passing trans men who haven’t had surgery have no problem because they are read as male. It seems to have more to do with controlling the female body then anything else. 💚 edit: I forgot to add the green heart. 💀

[@miserablepunk]

Hi Khadija!! I love love this topic! I'm a huge fan of Janelle and I'm also nonbinary & black. You're right!! I would love a world where femme people's chests were sexualized no more. This video is awesome 🎉 but also what i cant believe is if a man had their shirt off in public they wouldn't be charged as a sex offender but a femme person could? I hope society changes our minds 🫠

[@4BYSSALTEETH]

as a trans man who intends to “fully transition” medically and legally with the exception of only getting chest *reduction* surgery, i wonder A LOT about where the line between legally and socially acceptable and unacceptable chests would be drawn, not only because it's going to inform the extremely important decision i have to make about chest size but also because of its larger social context

[@electronics-girl]

@@4BYSSALTEETH The KZbinr Ty Turner is a trans man who takes testosterone, but has never had any surgery. He takes his shirt off, and I guess the muscles and chest hair help people to perceive his chest as masculine, even though he never got a reduction.

[@2crisp63]

whats femme?

[@electronics-girl]

@@2crisp63 Someone who expresses their gender in a feminine way.

[@2crisp63]

@@electronics-girl bit foncusing given the context of this topic but thanks!

[@swethag0728]

You are spot-on about how Indian caste hierarchy induced what made a woman decent and what doesn't simply providing and removing the need for some women to wear clothes. Anyway, where I live now, nudity is allowed, which I only know now because of you, so thank you! I've only recently started being kinder to my body (not wearing 4 layers of clothing all the time is such a relief!) but yes, I would greatly support and appreciate if we're *all* allowed to be kinder towards our bodies and others!

[@chickenfoot2423]

I obviously dont see topless women on the street but I do love how acceptable it is (at least where I live) to visibly not wear a bra under tops now. It’s a bit too physically uncomfortable for me, but seeing other girls do it makes me feel happy to be living in this time. Even at my college aged 16-18 it was completely acceptable.

[@puppykat800]

💚💚💚 thank you for another amazing video