pretty girl gone ugly, the "undesirable" woman | Khadija Mbowe

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[@TheAngryCleric]

“Boo-hoo my n**** I ain’t sad you won’t fuck me” is seriously the energy I needed in pop music. I love it so much.

[@justmars4273]

This

[@RobinTheBot]

HELL YEAH

[@pregnantleggies3696]

Nah it's the fact people will eat the line up but then turn around and cry to Doja about being unattractive. Like pick a side incels, we can't keep up

[@teableu]

I would say she's doing more hip hop, rather than pop in this new stuff

[@theartoflolita935]

I know right! That lyrics and the energy hit! I don't like her newest song though

[@TeeNoir]

I felt her so bad when she was talking about her lifelong dislike of having hair. I always felt like my hair was just an accessory like a hat or belt, never part of me or necessary for that matter. Anyway Khadija this look is auntie DOWNNNN

[@KhadijaMbowe]

Thank you!!!!! And honestly hair should just be an accessory

[@emixxixx3001]

How can you feel bad for a woman who deadass spreads anti blackness and goes on live chat rooms with racist and dates a man that assaults women….then block his victims and cry and cry that people are calling her out…I don’t understand.

[@NoName-rg6he]

idk if hair should “just be an accessory” to all people’s!!! indigenous people like myself find a lot of strength and spiritual connection to our hair. but it’s more about it being an extension of yourself and your soul than being an object of beauty.

[@sunflowerlady2057]

I’m wondering if her dislike of her 4C hair played a role in her lifelong dislike of having hair. That’s actually…a deeper thing.

[@goldenapple3952]

@@sunflowerlady2057 isnt it way harder to take care of 4c hair too? not to mention the social issues around black hair in general...i can understand why hair is annoying to her for sure

[@jodiethemathgenius9204]

people treat you like shit if you're hot and treat you like shit if you're ugly, you're right, they just treat women like shit, can't avoid it, might as well look like you wanna look

[@alisonmercer5946]

Right!!!

[@alisonmercer5946]

Right!!!

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

Love your name. Yep! Might as well look how you want and keep the brain healthy too

[@someusername4129]

Jodie knows what's up!!

[@graceface420]

👏👏👏👏👏

[@EricaDLucas]

Can I also point out how concerning it is that the first thing people accuse women of, whenever they do anything out of what they are expected, is "crazy", "unstable", "mentally ill"? Like, it's 2023 and people keep saying they are progressive and evolved, but would still love to pull witch trials and sentence women to a sanatorium just for daring to doing something out of the norm

[@FocusedFighter777]

It'll never stop because the problems isn't us: it's the ones telling us constantly how we are crazy: that ARE F crazy. There is something truly wrong in their brains.

[@carolynrichards2744]

Facts.

[@pixie9499]

i mean, she literally wrote lyrics ab anyone who disagrees with her are “depressed” & need therapy?? i know i didn’t see anyone calling her out until that point. i think ppl just don’t want to admit that their fav isn’t a good person.

[@ellatizzy9726]

@@pixie9499 She was calling the people "depressed" who were telling her SHE was "depressed" for shaving her hair and telling HER SHE needs therapy

[@oddryblack3066]

THIS

[@rozemilkteaz371]

I didn’t mind that she changed her aesthetic, in fact I loved it. My only issue is her BOYFRIEND. He is a groomer, and Doja blocked his victims when they tried to reach out to her. I don’t have any respect for any woman that defends a man like that

[@Anna-cp2zi]

hard agree ppl acting like she’s a saint is rubbing me the wrong way

[@Mirraluvsu]

He is??? I knew Nicki's husband is but I didn't even know!

[@everyonesalama4447]

aiming your resentments at him would make more sense though

[@catsballs9657]

@@everyonesalama4447 no?? She is a groomer LOVER. She should absolutely be questioned for allowing that type of person into her life.

[@revenge3265]

She's also kinda racist and anti-black. The whole "racial chats showing feet" was an actually real thing AND she did it again recently. She's stated several times she doesn't want to be considered a black music artist and she even wore the shirt with the of a N@zi. IDGAF about her appearance "being ugly". What I care about is her ugly ass personality. People trying to pretend like she has a valid reason to be mad amd no one can be mad at her is ridiculous. Her, her predator boyfriend and all her little fans trying to protect her from rightfully getting dragged can go to hel. Idc.

[@Liz-kj2jj]

Glad you addressed the nuance. I think most femmes have experienced looking nice and feeling confident in an outfit, getting harassed in it, and then reactively intentionally trying to look undesirable. However it’s inescapable. I’ve gotten harassed in sweatpants and sweaty with hat hair. There is no uniform you can rely on to avoid the harassment. No one is safe from assault just because they’re not deemed “conventionally attractive.” But we are definitely societally punished if we don’t put in enough “effort” to our appearance

[@nawal10]

Women need to understand it's not us it's these primitive men. A guy was arrested for fking a cow. Honey in that case any woman in any clothes, or the lack of, can get it. It's not u what u can or can't wear. Muslim men scream that's why our religion makes women cover up! Yet these women covered from head to toe where u can only see the eyes still get catcalled harrassed molested and fully r*ped. That's men for ya 🤢

[@notnyssi8210]

Yeeeep. I’ve gotten street harassment when I’ve been barely dressed up with a lil bit of makeup and when I’ve gone out for groceries or to the pharmacy in an ugly baggy t-shirt and basketball shorts with no makeup. It literally does not matter, creeps are gonna creep. 😕

[@Liz-kj2jj]

@@notnyssi8210I almost never wear makeup except occasionally to work or on special celebratory occasions. I used to wear a full face every day. The amount of harassment actually increased (though this may have to do with being in a different location). But people do refer to me less as “perfect” now as opposed to the makeup days

[@bluester7177]

I don't think it is even just a femme thing, I was never super femme in clothing, I always prioritised comfortable, so I was always in jeans, trainers and a usually black band/anime shirts, but I used to wear make up and that happen to me to the point I stopped wearing make up and caring about anything other than being clean about my appearance and being more unattractive helped clear out some of my problems, specially because I work in a male dominated field, so the come-ons stopped, which I'm super thankful for.

[@Liz-kj2jj]

Just to clarify, Meant femme in a woman/afab way, not just in the feminine presentation/ type of lesbian way lol

[@GabrielaGonzalez-ic2ow]

The fact that when she shaved her head people were like " oh my god she's depressed" "she needs therapy" is both hilarious and crazy.

[@SmileyAdventures]

I couldn’t believe how dense people can be lol

[@claudia4632]

Maybe I should shave my hair people... it seems it would make people take my mental health issues a bit more seriously 😅

[@justhearmeout3959]

I remember when Britney Spears shaved her head and there was this huge backlash saying she went crazy and I was so confused. Like how are those two things related, honestly

[@salemmarz3809]

@@claudia4632 same

[@cdmp777]

@@justhearmeout3959 I think you hit something on the head there, we tend to avoid looking like or acting like someone when they’ve done something “unattractive” in the public’s perception. When it doesn’t have to have the same meaning.

[@iamjanedoe4real]

It’s so sad how most people can’t deal with a pretty woman not pandering to their gaze. If you don’t care about being pretty above all else, they’ll all call you crazy.

[@unseenmolee]

yeah as a fem with a buzzcut its actualy so insulting.. i feel sm better now without hair but just because its not what other ppl want me to do i must be insane?

[@dliap98]

but if you admit to caring about your looks 'too much' then you're shallow and vain lol

[@LittleMsSunnyD]

Being an attractive introvert gets me labeled as stuck up. I hate being the center of attention and prefer to be left alone.

[@greenthinggg]

@@dliap98 yup we can never win

[@zacharybosley1935]

Even if this isn't the newest conversation, meaningful progress in seeing people as people instead of tools and objects is a really new practice. As sad as it is, people are only just detangling people's value from their material qualifications, and some people have never begun to learn those skills

[@indianbellydancer1]

Daja Cat, Katy Perry, and Kristen Stewart all went bold enough to see what it’s like to not be in the male gaze for once and see how society views them. Men have way too much power

[@loriell1996]

Women have the power, I bet it was more women turned off then men. Women are worse than men these days, idk how that wasn't talked about.

[@FocusedFighter777]

Nah, they're vicitms...... THAT'S what they pretend all the time now anyway. MGTOW Incels etc All victims. Women should stay single, keep your freedom and mental/physical health. Seriously.

[@cutiepiea3687]

That women give them

[@avetiq3905]

Try being an unattractive, weak, nerdy guy. The psychological pain is out of this world

[@pixie9499]

i don’t think katy or kristen are neo-nazi sympathizers tho ☹️

[@twinkle231979]

Being typically sexually attractive has led to a lifetime of being prey, never feeling safe, many sexual assault incidents. I’ve recently gone Goth/punk, which I’ve secretly always loved but because of the box I was in I was too afraid to embrace, I make myself look as unapproachable as possible these days

[@LeNoiraLite]

This! From my own life experience, being sexually attractive is the worst thing I can ever be. To me, it doesn’t feel safe. At some points it has felt like my own body has betrayed me. I had a love hate relationship with my body for a long time because I liked my physical self very much, yet simultaneously felt opened up to violence because of it. sometimes I purposely deny people of the opportunity to find me attractive. If someone says they like or prefer something, I do the exact opposite just to be defiant😅. I find it quite empowering to make entitled people angry. For most of my life I’ve been punk in ideology- it’s quite freeing, beyond even what you listen to or how you dress. I wish more people would consider what they want for themselves and not just how they are taught they need to be.

[@catcat9582]

The movie malena may interest you

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

​@@LeNoiraLiteI'm so sorry

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

Do you both have friends? I'm sorry you have to force yourself to be unapproachable because of these evil men. But you don't have to change for men.

[@bluBlaq33]

When did you realize you liked that type of music? Or is it strictly an aesthetic for you?

[@shizz3907]

As a black man I find it really hard to walk out ever not looking put together or in a fit or looking expensive even when I go to the grocery store because I picked up from a very young age that if you’re a black man in particular, the better more put together you look, the nicer your hair (I have locs and these coat $100+ to get retwisted monthly and my undercut is like $30 and I get it cut biweekly) the more serious people take you and I don’t have the money really to keep my hair looking pristine and have the freshest clothes but i feel like I have to, it’s like a tax for being black and in public. But more importantly the less people view you as a threat and present danger to their safety when you look good as a black man, especially living in a predominantly white area. Yeah I feel this on a deep level but differently than a femme-presenting person would. Great video Khadijah!

[@garretthoneycutt6353]

🎯🎯💯

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

Unless its on court, for some reason people look more guulty the nicer they dress so i always just went in t shirt and chucks and i gotta 13-0 win streak despite reppin myself most the time

[@lesvianaura]

As a black femme, i get it. I was constantly told to never go out looking "raggedy." Can't go out in streetwear because I would look too "ghetto" and "suspicious." Always wore a nice shirt with jeans and made sure people could see my pockets so they won't suspect anything. My hair was straightened and up on a ponytail. No makeup because then I would be considered "fast." I realized I was taught that as a survival method, but at the end of the day it doesn't stop racists from being racist.

[@RobinTheBot]

Hey man, if this is what you gotta do to survive, do it... but just in case no one ever told you: You do not owe this to anyone, esp white people. It's bullshit, and you deserve to walk out in sweats like everyone else was. Hope you find a safe place to live one day 💕

[@KhadijaMbowe]

Thank you for your comment It’s true that men have different standards, black men as well, and on and on 🥹

[@AlwaysAmTired]

The ugly privilege thing pisses me off because ugly women get harassed by men all the time!!! But it's not sexual, it's insults. It's slurs. It's not being allowed into a place, being openly laughed at and mocked, even having things thrown at you! Being ugly does not protect you from men, it just makes men hate you in a different way. These women may not reach that level of ugliness, but a lot of women do. And they are completely ignored and left out of these conversations. It sucks to be left out by all sides.

[@TeaSipperEsq.]

I am so sorry ❤

[@notnyssi8210]

Absolutely 👏 Speak on it!

[@TheYoungKilljoy]

Exactly, I have had a man stopping his truck in front of me in the street and putting the window down to call me "Ugly" and leave (I was 15 wearing my school uniform)... People don't consider you a woman, desexualise you and pretend you don't exist ._. I can tell.

[@joschlo7898]

Sexual abuse happens to "ugly" people too

[@personone1382]

? the belief that ugly people are less likely to be sexually assaulted/harassed is SO messed up because it basically implies that people get sexually assaulted because of their attractiveness. that's not how it works. people get sexually assaulted because the perpetrator wants to enforce POWER over them. it's all a power thing. it's why women, children, disabled people, neurodivergent people, and other marginalized groups are more likely to be sexually assaulted.

[@FuriosaTerraToma]

As someone who is 40 my looks have changed a lot over my life. I used to be "traditionaly sexy" but always a weirdo and men were always bothering me. The fatter, older, and more like a clown I dress almost no men bother me except the ones that feel that they must tell me that they don't want to fuck me and I must fix that. lololol. I haven't had eyebrows in 23 years. I am so much enjoying men leaving me the hell alone. Now only fellow queers think I'm hot and that's all I can ask for. I think Doja looks hotter now. I love a good IDGAF attitude.

[@sonnidesoto8140]

Yes! I'm fat and approaching 40 and I kinda love that men leave me alone for the most part. Mostly, I just get women and queer people coming up to me to compliment my outfits and that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more flattering and leaves me feeling far more beautiful than when men used to hit on me all the time. 10mil out 10, would take a woman telling me that she loves my shoes or my dress than some rando guy describing to me what he wants to do to my body or trying to herd me off somewhere like a gazelle. I wish 12-year-old me coulda grown up with this feeling.

[@stinkyguy31]

As a disabled and feminine person, I used to feel obligated to dress up pretty because then people would actually respect me. Instead of seeing my autistic traits as something to be made fun of, people around me took a full 180 and started sexualizing it. What was once weird and unsociable became cute and quirky based off of how I was presenting myself. Even now, not feeling as pressured to dress as feminine, I notice on a daily basis how different people act to me based off of how I present myself. I see it happening to other disabled people all the time and frankly I'm extremely tired of it.

[@NanaLia_18]

I'm so sorry ❤

[@ouijacorn]

The "I don't like having hair" thing resonates so hard with me. I love being bald and people have a hard time believing that I do it for me. It does feel sexy and cute but I'd be lying if I said that it isn't a perk that it keeps specific types of people away from me. Small rant: has anyone ever noticed that in media short hair on women always translates to either "masculine" or "wild girl/rebel", but female characters with short hair tend to have longer hair after they're in a relationship with a man. I certainly have had men try to talk me into growing my hair out, but contrary to how it works in the movies it's never happened for them.

[@laninfapimentel311]

This "wild/rebel girl" stereotyme is so real in my experience! Every time I had short hair, the weirdest guys would approach me. It was like they had a fetish or something. I thought my hair looked cute, but hated being treated like a "cool girl". Also, it seems like straight girls like me more when my hair is long. They tend to be extra patronizing whenever I cut my hair short. Either way, the longer and straighter my hair is, the better they treat me.

[@schmiddinski]

Omg I also had someone tell me to grow out my hair. I just realised that wow

[@jessicavalley9211]

Im bald too I don't care what people think I like it

[@edamamame4U]

As an asexual woman, I get told that I'm too pretty to be asexual and that I'm leading people on. What the hell is that even supposed to mean? I got called out in a predominantly male dominated martial art for "wearing too much make-up." It is absolutely damning and plays into harmful stereotypes. So now I just live in sportswear and stopped wearing make-up.

[@ambatuBUHSURK]

tbh there are a lot of asexual larpers that make stuff up just for attention

[@lesvianaura]

the way people treat asexuals on all sides are so icky. it's like people can't handle the fact that other people simply don't want sex/ dont have sexual attraction. i feel like it's an ego thing at this point, "how dare you not want sex, this means you won't willingly have sex with me." is the vibe i get.

[@amberevol]

it fucking sucks that even in doing that you are still making the choices based on how you're treated instead of truly having the freedom to do what you want. we can never just fucking do what we want.

[@Vitoria-ug9cc]

Wow, I was attributing my experience being completely different to the fact I'm asexual, but you are too, and now I'm confused. I never went out in baggy clothes to not be noticed. I'm never noticed anyway. Or at least I fail to perceive if I am. What does getting noticed even mean? Because I can't notice subtle attraction hints and I don't have a clue what it means except for like, being stared at or catcalled, and society has pushed down enough of these that they don't happen - at least not to average people.

[@zaidylime2595]

no fr and people pressure me to have sex like oh u will like it it’s j because of trauma and i’m like dude gtfo me yo

[@chickenfoot2423]

im just genuinely baffled as to how so many ppl were insisting that dojas new look looked ugly and crazy... like she has the perfect face for a buzzcut. how can you be SO stuck in the traditional beauty standards that you cant even see past 'woman = long hair, man = short hair :)' bc she clearly has conventionally beautiful bone structure and imo really suits the change shes made. i just know all of the people mad about it are boring.

[@alisonmercer5946]

Some of it is Jealousy. because we know we would be "ugly" with a shaved head but like u said it fits her. And lot of people just really love being nasty assholes. I'm so sick of it all.And then there the concern police. Omg I'm just so covered for their health she is gonna die early cause they are obese / think of the bad influence that is on children ! I've read that under that plus size model who simply has some t and a . That pretending you care about. Health so u can verbally abuse people I swear if I ever hear irl m gonna blow my top I'm gonna pop a foking gasket! It makes me rage! Oh on the other end the hated and vitriol over being to skinny. Eugenia Cooney else anorexia shows and all of the hatred she gets for promoting anorexia. Jf mudderefingC

[@Enriquez2222]

Right, when I saw people calling her ugly I was confused. She is literally gorgeous

[@nicolerubin7368]

Seriously. She looks gorgeous. I'm envious that I don't have the facial structure to get away with the shaved head. I think long hair has a type of feminity/ vulnerability that femmes should have in these men's feeble minds.

[@MoTM249]

@@amandak.4246 literally as simple as that. Most guys are attracted to girls with long hair generally it just looks better. That being said she can absolutely do what she wants.

[@RidleyJones]

Was going to say the same thing. She obviously looks different, but now--and including the shaved eyebrows--her beauty is more of the edgy model type. But still beautiful.

[@vvitch-mist20]

"This is a cry for help" like...being bald saves so much money on shampoo and conditioner, and wigs can be a time/money saver. Have people just never met goths or alternative people in general? Drag queens? Also one of her first videos was that Cow music video, I saw on it on Tumblr so I never knew the name. Like this is par for the course, why were people so surprised?

[@vikkidc3859]

Because they deem anybody that rejects what they consider normal as "wrong"

[@unseenmolee]

you shouldnt even need to justify it. i buzzed my hair just because i wanted to and it was the best decision i could have made for myself!! i just like having short hair, i think it fits me better and its nice to not have one more thing to have to worry abt/take care of

[@Birbface]

I am bald. It sucks not having that extra layer of insulation. I have to wear a hat much of the time.

[@damian4628]

Also doja has often said she hates wigs

[@licensetochill4992]

Word! Also she has beautiful features anyway, I'm jealous of people who can rock the buzz cut and bald look. I'd look likean overcooked carrot :''D

[@JJ-1866]

It is absolutely true, the more conventionally attractive you are, the more opportunities, chances, options, resources, attention you're going to get. People will be willing to break the law or overlook mistakes. When I lost 30 pounds and started dressing in a more stereotypically feminine way, life suddenly became much different. People would bend over backwards and offer to do stuff for me for no reason. It's more sad than flattering to be honest.

[@sophiaai7361]

It’s alarming when you see both sides. I’ve been the “pretty” girl and the “ugly” girl and both suck for different reasons

[@emhu2594]

​​@@sophiaai7361 pretty is better. People make life easier for you and you have respect. It is a higher rung on the hierarchy. It is power and protection.

[@peardrop7840]

@@emhu2594 Counter experience, I cut all my hair at 14 because i was sick of threat and harrassment and i definatly experienced being an outsider as a result, but it also made my male peers take me seriously when i expressed an intellectual opinion. A really interesting change in men i noticed when i cut my hair was that when i was angry they took me seriously, compared to when i had long hair and would be treated as non threatening but unstable “youre so cute when youre angry”, it was like havung short hair interupted amab “bitches be crazy” reaction to afab expression. I think deeply and need to express intellectual opinion on social, political and cultural events and i really enjoyed the switch men made in response to my short hair. I didnt enjoy feeling ugly, which i did for years until i was 23 and grew my hair and bleeched it blond. I discovered this flip side i didnt usually have access to and had written off as belonging to other people. I dont think the perks of bp outweigh the downsides esp as a queer person having men be more interested in me has been terrible and i struggle not to turn against my own enjoyment of what i find beautiful about myself, its hard to enjoy the craeyivity of bright colour and make up and long hair when men imvade my space, its hard not to incorrectly internalise that as being the result of my appearence. But men invade my space no matter how i look and im realising thats always been the case and i dont want to change my appearence based on their behaviour. I would say my beauty privilage played a part in getting some jobs but never for good reasons and it had nothing to do with my studies or any major acheivements that im proud of.

[@Supakalii]

It's also soooo unfair that most men get to just EXIST with no need to constantly worry or feel embarrassed about how they look. They are viewed through such a different lens, no matter how they look, they will always be seen as a human vs an object to lust over. It's such a privilege lol

[@mpGreen03]

When I try to explain this to men what I hear is - no, you women have it easier because of that. Like wtf ugh

[@lucian7490]

@@mpGreen03 yeah like wtf you tellin me your personality is so shit you want to be reduced to an object?!

[@yeahyeahwowman8099]

It's not true at all, men mostly exist in a permanent bubble of, if I run my mouth, I could get in a fight. Not like that at all with women, men know women are not much of a threat to them psychically so women can trash a store, the worst that might happen is she gets tackled to the ground.

[@uninteressant2196]

We don`t exist without worry about our looks - it is just that most men get ignored by girls, so why should they bother trying to look good if it makes no difference. Furthermore we accept other men if they look shite, and i am honest and non judgemental with them- do you do the same with girls? Be honest. By still expecting us to make a move first you give us the power to decide - and if i get met with hostility no matter who i talk to i will try my luck with the pretty one. Girls also have this arms race of make up, for which we can blame both sides.

[@balaynganiyebe]

@@yeahyeahwowman8099 i think you mean psychologically? anw, as fair as that judgement is, the fact still stands that men will be paid more attention regardless. nevermind what the lady was wearing, doing etc

[@witchplease9695]

It’s also especially exhausting that as a Black woman I have to perform desirability in order to be treated like a human being.

[@Beautifullyaberrant]

@AlexUTTP876 …

[@katiebailey3439]

I’m sorry for your plight 😣. That’d drive me crazy. You deserve to be valued for who you are.

[@lesvianaura]

the moment i stopped alternating my appearance to look more "white" (hair straightening, skin lightening, ect) the more racism and misogynoir I faced. Then I had the nerve to get locs and it went all downhill from there.

[@dreampinkreel]

Imagine being black AND ugly… everyday is a hellish day, fren

[@florence55999]

This comment!!

[@TheIndigoLion]

I hate the argument that someone "ugly" isn't attractive enough to be assaulted. Especially when men will regularly admit that they can easily have sex with a girl they don't even like or have any kind of feelings for.

[@gravityclarity]

This!👏🏽

[@FocusedFighter777]

Yes because for them, it's not about liking you or not: it's mechanical. It's so F gross. how can you ever trust people that are shallow like this. Never.

[@skarbuskreska]

I mean they f a vacuum cleaner tube, so where's the ugly argument going?

[@kngxn7437]

True. I'm an outcast weird girl who's skinny fat, has a resting bitch face, has a body of a 15 yo and used to avoid all makeup/'aesthetic enhacing products', and i still got catcalled (tho it was definitely a lot less compared to the conventionally attractive girls)

[@medeasherbs]

that is so fucked up to say even, like being s.assaulted is something desirable..sometimes i really wish people who make such comments knew what being s.assaulted means

[@miabarnes6575]

Can you make a video about queer culture vs. straight culture desirability? Going from a queer space and being seen as hot, and then going into a straight environment and being seen as ugly is WILD.

[@sidspit9983]

not that i'd want to be seen as attractive to a straight person anyway lol

[@Sympathy_forLadyVengeance]

and how straight men see older women vs how queer women see them

[@elliottmcpeek7443]

yesss this would be so good there is so much to dive into here

[@sofiya7683]

Absolutely here for that🎉

[@invadingminds]

That is so interesting. I definitely want to see a video on this cuz I had no idea this was a thing.

[@henxaigaming1682]

People really do hate alternative people. This is how some of us present ourselves daily and we see the stares and the people taking pictures and videos. People are so use to being monotonous and everyone looking the "same" that anyone who decides to be themselves, they are the weird ones. We live on a FLOATING ROCK, wear and look how you want!

[@eebaedeebae]

the whole thing of people expecting women to WANT to be desired and sexualized if they appear to fit beauty standards can be dangerous too. Like just today it was reported that a 15 YEAR OLD GIRL was STABBED TO DEATH on a bus in Croydon, London after "rejecting" a boy's flowers

[@vdemarzo2375]

I was a pretty traditionally attractive woman before I transitioned and losing the social power that came with that was one of the things I feared the most. I also think I received much more pushback when I came out bc I was “so pretty” before. I still miss the way people treated me before I transitioned sometimes. People treated me terribly when I started transitioning but didn’t “pass” because I just looked like an “ugly” woman. Now people just treat me like any other guy. It’s weird to have experienced all sides of the spectrum.

[@aviendha1154]

Dude same. My own ffing mother straight up said she was misgendering me because I looked too much like a pretty girl. And at that point I had my head shaved and had been dressing like a man for 2 years.

[@orsolyafekete7485]

I'm... going the other way, so to speak, but people being upset at tranmasc people transitioning, because "but you are so pretty" makes me want to puke. I hope you don't have to deal with that BS anymore

[@adamazar]

The "but you were so pretty before!!" Thing is so... ugh

[@human_plant]

REAL REAL REAL :3333

[@disneytoysr4fun975]

I feel guilty for thinking the same thing. I saw a gorgeous blond girl on tik tok transition and it hurt me not gonna lie. I didnt comment on her page tho because i know how toxic it is and i dont want to cause trauma. Still i cant change what i think in my head, eff the patriarchy!😭😩

[@3rdeyegoogly]

RANT incoming from a person who couldn't be conventionally attractive if (and when) I tried. I went to a college in the early aughts at a campus known for having pretty women, and did not fit into that category. I was barked at (cuz I was a "dog"), called a BMW (body made wrong), and had "4" shouted at me (because that was my score on a 1-10 scale) as I walked to class. The low point was when I drunkenly fell asleep at a boys' house, being inexperienced with alcohol and crushing on someone who lived there. I awoke to multiple boys' hands under my clothes and my crush shouting from afar, "She should be grateful. I mean, look at her!" They all laughed. I managed to get up and run out of there crying, and spent the next 3 years convinced that everyone on campus knew and thought it was hilarious. My self-image was forever altered. The conviction that I'm stupid and ugly still sticks with me. The "stupid" part comes from multiple women there who told me it was my own fault when I confided in them. I WISH that people would have just left me alone that day, although being invisible wasn't fun either. Beauty standards destroyed my college experience, period. End rant. Love your stuff, Khadija!

[@ilikecookies9796]

Do you have the addresses of any of those boys? I feel like paying them a visit.........

[@redwoodrebelgirl3010]

Oh, my goodness! That's horrific!!! 💔 All of it, every little (& big) bit! You were oppressed, abused, harassed, & r*ped/ SA'd. NONE of which is ok, & none of which is your fault! You deserved & deserve ONLY Love, respect, compassion, kindness, caring, protection, safety, freedom, Love, good treatment, peace, & an education in peace. And, Justice. Especially regarding the bullying harassment, abuse, & SA/r*pe that you have endured. Please, sister, get some counseling.❤️ And, please _consider_ pressing charges against the predatory pervert perpetrators-- not only to get those scumbags off the Streets, Which is really BIG & really IMPORTANT-- but, because it may be a very empowering act for YOU to face & take down the perpetrators, as well That is terrible SA, by multiple people--each of whom deserves to rot in jail & hell. I prey that you are SAFE, & free, & finding comfort, healing, help, & support, strength, power, Light, Love, Hope, & ever-increasing peace. 💗 God be with you, hold you close, bless you, & bring you healing, strength, & power.

[@DjurslandsEfterskole]

Holy shit! I'm so sorry that was done to you! You didn't deserve any of that. No one does. Every bit of evil you endured was a reflection of them and of the fucked up system you all existed in. I am so sorry. I can't believe you woke up to being sexually assaulted and your crush acting so depraved and just.. Evil. The whole situation is repulsive. You did nothing to deserve that. Again. No one does. Those actions were theirs, and theirs alone. I really hope you are surrounded by good people now, and if not, I hope you will be soon, and you will find healthy people to confide in.

[@bwolff7364]

That is so fucked up I'm so fucking sorry

[@magnoliaskogen]

It's so deeply fucked up how those boys and women treated you. You deserve so much better.

[@human_plant]

Coming from a trans dude, the way people treated me when I cut my hair off and stopped wearing makeup was appalling and embarassing for the whole human race.

[@t_ylr]

Even as a cis dude I notice a difference in how I'm treated with how my hair looks.I have long hair. if I'm going out with my type 4 hair in an aro vs finger curls it's a different vibe. Even more compared to when I had short hair. Like when my hair is styled ppl are friendlier. Strangers wanna talk to me lol. It's kinda wild

[@KhadijaMbowe]

I’m sorry 🖤

[@arol1644]

I went through a whole other level of social anxiety when I decided to cut my butt length hair into a pixie cut It made me feel like I didn’t exist, I was ignored and lowkey disrespected in public spaces, strangers started acting cold when they used to be nice..

[@canidpunk]

the switch from me presenting fem to my transition to masculine and going on hormones was wild. i went from being a teenager and grown men i had never known or had any connection to in my dms talking about how they wanted me (as a child) to the only attention i get where im being hit on now is just from people who actually know me or its in the context of being on a dating app. i no longer get harassed. cars used to stop and men would talk to me when i was a teenager but now i can even walk at night and no one cares at all the only harassment i get now is for being visibly queer in the south.

[@amdman4you]

Omg not everything had to do you y'all like you transition to be a man

[@juliajuliax]

Something similar happened to me a few years back and it felt so liberating. I had a bit of a glowup in high-school, prior to that I was always the ugly but funny friend of the group. I never had any luck with guys and it made me feel terrible when I was a young teenager. But then puberty hit me. I had nice long hair in high-school. A lot of guys liked it and I knew it, especially when I was wearing a cute updo with bangs, I got complemented on it a lot by guys in my circle. Feeling noticed by them was a new thing to me, as I said I was the "ugly one" up until then. But I always wanted a short bob. It was something I wanted all high-school but never had the balls to go for it, mostly because I was afraid I would be "ugly" again. So when I left high-school and went to uni I finally got the confidence to do it. By this time I grew out of that """"ugly"""" phase (mind you, looking back at it I was never ugly, just very self conscious and not fitting in), I went through puberty fully and started looking like an actual woman. I knew my guy friends from uni were attracted to me because my looks represented exactly what these type of guys would like: long hair, skinny but curvy, tall, nice makeup and feminine clothes. The thing is, they were not the type of men I wanted to attract (let's just say their views on women and the world around them was rather traditional, in contrast to me, a left wing feminist) and I was fed up with it. Being attractove to the type of man I would never want to date because of their views felt almost like I was betraying myself. So I told them I'm cutting my hair off and one of them said "you shouldn't do it, men prefer long hair on women" and that was exactly what I needed to hear. I cut my hair shortly after, to the disappointment of the guy friends of course, and I was so happy. I felt fierce and beautiful. And these guys not liking it made it even better. After the hair I also change the rest of my style to fit what I like and not what generic men my age like. Not appealing to this general traditionalist male gaze made me feel free. I spend my whole teenage years trying to pander to the idea of being sexy to the men around me and I forgot about being beautiful for myself. I never went back to looking conventionally attractive and stayed originally myself.

[@Lia-gy4zs]

I think Doja is the perfect example of how a society backed by modern-day beauty standards fueled by the male gaze is detrimental. I think it is especially detrimental since Doja is apart of the Rap entertainment industry that is heavily grounded on the promotion of sex appeal. Thank you Khadija for doing this video essay. Ive been waiting on a solid youtube video that addresses the situation Doja underwent and is still undergoing.

[@WerstoftheWorst]

As a trans man I really feel this. The amount of people who desperately wanted into my pants were somehow offended I wasn't "pretty" anymore

[@Mariposa-11-2007]

Our rapey culture conditions folks to feel entitled to women's bodies. For sex or intimacy or entertainment or anything. For a trans woman, like me, you start to get touched (sometimes assaulted) a lot more when transitioning.

[@RavenCobra]

You're still being a woman, not matter if you think You're a man. Dress and clothes not change you're sex. So get over it. ❤

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@RavenCobra Or you could get over being a raging asshole.

[@dolphiee4644]

@@RavenCobra That’s not very nice. How would you feel if someone said something similar to you?

[@JuliETrevA]

​@@RavenCobra"get over it" Says the NPC that has trans people living rent free in their head.

[@Xavlee]

I would love to see a similar video discussing attraction politics with trans women in particular! You can go from a fetish to "disgusting" with a 5 o clock shadow and the respect you get, or don't get, as a result is wild

[@KhadijaMbowe]

Oooof I feel there are definitely trans women talking about this

[@ouryayommay9435]

personally my issue with doja is 1. blocking her boyfriend's victims when they speak out 2. mocking a rape testimony ...

[@chaoticenbybard6699]

Allegedly

[@marslara]

Yeah this and that are very separate things. She's been outta pocket really but I was genuinely shocked how personally offended people got that she changed her style up like damn Even Kim kardashian was in some piece recently that had her with like a buzz cut and I thought the photos were actually pretty nice but the comments under that were acting like she killed her kid or something Wtf is wrong with people 😭😭

[@undercover_idiot]

This is why nuance exists, one doesn't excuse the other

[@ouryayommay9435]

@@marslara i honestly could care less that she changed her style, i think its cool. i wish people would focus on like ... the actually important things that affect people everyday. people care too much about sexuality to have an actual conversation about her

[@drippycity4135]

@@ouryayommay9435 okay yeah but THIS video is specifically about how people switched up because of her new appearance

[@jamieetheridge9034]

I'm a woman who changes my hair a lot too. When I was in high school, I had a haircutting "accident" which resulted in me having very short hair for a while. The amount of people who were OFFENDED by my short hair was INSANE. They really thought they could hurt me by saying I looked like a boy.

[@blexxedemeraldz]

people definitely do treat me differently when my hair changes. the worst it ever gotten was when i had locs. at times some people talked to me like i was scum. i got lost in opinions and took them out, my mind grew stronger so has my bonds, and i’m starting them again tomorrow. can’t nobody with a white patriarchal view control me and my crown ever again

[@nikitagupta6164]

Opting out of the beauty privilege she had / was handed ---> that privilege also takes work and maintenance. In the current online regime, I do not think there is an aesthetic that is considered beautiful and is also the actual, natural state of anyone's existence. Even those with relative pretty privilege have to actively direct energy towards meeting the pretty standard. So I think it's not just an act of giving up what was handed to her, or just choosing a different aesthetic, but also an act of *not* putting energy and work into maintaining the illusion anymore.

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

Naw the reason my girl is beautiful is cuz she dont need make up and i know if she cared about that stuff it would just be annoying to me anyway. We lazy thats why it works. Try hards are what is ugly

[@TeaSipperEsq.]

Right. She literally got Lipo for crying out loud 😂❤

[@ladyteebugluv]

@@NalieJoy THIS!!! You explained this wonderfully !!

[@megamoneyk]

Right because most people need skin care regime and to eat well to stay nice looking

[@mae8646]

I kinda disagree with you that having pretty privelage always takes work. If you're already conventionally attractive you dont have to wear makeup or shave to still be called pretty. However if you're "pretty" and dont put 100% effort into meeting beauty standards you'll get shamed for it. The worst part is when the person shaming you for not shaving calls you hot in the same sentence 💀 this actually happened to me

[@feefee6889]

The “being ugly is a blessing” argument is so dumb. People are made fun of for their looks, then they are harassed by men and not believed when they are. I don’t think it’s a valid argument at all and it should be thrown out as men don’t discriminate who they harass. If they are creeps they are creeps to everyone.

[@keeshy]

Couldn't agree more

[@annabela.1673]

People get bullied so much for not good looking enough for those around them, specially during school!!! It's such an invalid argument.

[@crippycooke8743]

Agreed. This is a really bad thing to tell women, that they're being harassed because of their appearance. It's suggesting you can prevent r*** by altering your appearance, thus intimating you're 'asking for it' by dressing up. That's gross.

[@feefee6889]

@@annabela.1673 literally, like saying you can be weird and no one will judge you is a LIE. Totally not reality

[@anonymousanonymous870]

When it's comes to sex there's no ugly women to men.

[@MaiaPalazzo]

Now do a vid about Doja with that nazist on her tshirt, please...

[@meowrjuana1838]

Like seriously because the edginess and racism from her is not cute and is quite harmful

[@ashlouw5350]

@@meowrjuana1838 I don't think she's edgy even.. Edgy people go against looking for validation and she's desperately looking for validation from the public she's insulting. Edgy people move to their own tune , their own style but she heavily wants to be that person she doesn't aesthetically looks like to fit in the group she desperately wants to be a part of

[@synesthesia.aesthetic]

She won't. She said she would make a video calling out Dave Chappelle for siding with TERFs and she never did. She probably won't comment on this either. Her content is becoming fluff.

[@aztecchica]

Since I gained 50 lbs, I don't get the same attention as I did before. I used to get hit on every so often or looked at. But now that I'm fatter, I don't get that attention. It's really opened my eyes on how thinness is such a contributing factor to be accepted or desired.

[@shyviolets]

I recently lost 50 pounds and I can't tell you how frustrating it was to learn that my whole life of feeling isolated was mostly due to my weight as a woman. Every point you made is so relatable (+ an entire childhood of treatment from peers and adults)

[@cass422]

being “undesirable” is freeing as much as it is frustrating

[@pezor]

I definitely absolutely had to get out of the habit of automatically judging the attractiveness of every woman i saw. i never _consciously_ associated it with anything other than attractiveness, but that's where the real trouble starts, isn't it? I'm curious to read the comments. Thanks as always for your good effort and good intention.

[@burpie3258]

Thank you for putting in the effort to change!

[@quinnlee4588]

I've noticed that I tend to judge someone attractiveness when I first see a person and that's something I am actively trying to unlearn. It's often not something you want to do, but because of the society we operate under, it's become second nature.

[@vixxcelacea2778]

I would actually correct this to say it is integral nature. Doesn't mean we should uphold it, but I think assuming society came up with the idea that looks matter is putting the cart before the horse. Evolution/nature cares about survival and procreation. Being pretty taps into both of those, because attraction (physical) is about assessment that someone has good genes (which is yes, obviously heavily flawed, but it's what our species had to work with for thousands of years). You judge attractiveness because you're assessing the genetic worth of a person as an instinct, which before medicine and technology was the only way to know both to find a mate to procreate with and whom to give priority too. It's insanely heartless, but no one said that the trial and error throw everything at the wall process of evolution/nature isn't. Or rather, since the terms are just names for phenomena, they can't really be heartless because it's not intent, it's just happenstance. Point is, it's not just ingrained by proxy, it is instinctual. Society is only ever the product of taking these various instincts and taking them up to 11. The various people who assume that being gay, trans etc is "wrong" is because of appeal to nature fallacy. IE it doesn't have evolutionary purpose (or rather, they assume it doesn't) so it's "wrong". Never mind the absolute plethora of things that don't have evolutionary "purpose" or to assume purpose in the first place being foolhardy, because it's not a sentient drive, it's just a process we have a term for that we see happen overtime. It's a good thing to work on, but given how hardcoded it is, try to be a little more forgiving to yourself and others regarding it. We want to do better than the limitations that we have set for us, that takes time and it takes realizing where those limitations come from so that we can break or remold them to be better suited to our values.

[@aliciarae8726]

I remember complaining about guys trying to hit on mt while i was minding my own business and a guy said to me "when it's gone you're going to miss it" 🤮🤮🤮 now that im not a teenager it's died down and I DON'T miss it.

[@tyghe_bright]

The most noticeable change when I transitioned my gender to masc was that I was able to be *unseen*. And, oh, what a relief that was. I hadn't realized before that how much women are constantly being observed and judged for their desirability or lack thereof to straight men. I also dated some punk girls when I was in high school (in the 80s), and a huge part of punk for young women is being purposefully undesirable to straight (in both the sense of sexuality, and of belonging to the mainstream) folks.

[@toni2309]

Huh. I was actually super unseen when I was presenting femme and seen as a woman. Since I came out as transmasc and been presenting more all over the place, starting transition I've been getting much more judgement.

[@FocusedFighter777]

yeah. From as early as 8, many girls udnerstand THIS: and then we enter vicious cycles to turn LESS ATTARCTIVE. We eat more to gain lots of weight, we wear boys clothes, we hide, etc etc etc. Infuriating how so many men think that our purpose when we get up in the morning is to GET ATTENTION, when I was always fine with avoiding their gross attention. I wanted NOTHING to do with them, and I am 37 yrs old now: still want nothing to do with them. Girls get catcalled at 8. Any women, no matter what they are wearing: are victims of SA/murder. Because it isn't about us: it's about the F'd up fetishes and broken brains of agressors!!!! I did everythig to be ignored. Women understand this, all you have to do is shave your head, wear ugly clothes, even be SMART: and that turns men off. Stay single. You're better off. Most men just want you to exist for them, so 'be ugly'. Be strong and smart, build muscles mass, be independent: men HATE all of this. Then you'll be free.

[@lacexv]

This is the hardest part about womanhood for me. In a patriarchal society, we exist as spectacles for men. We are not allowed to look "ugly". We have to put in significantly more effort on a daily basis to look presentable. It's heartbreaking knowing that I will never be able to exist the way that men do. I'm so tired.

[@loriell1996]

It's on you to change that, what is more effort? My man brush his teeth 3 times a day, I only do it twice, he also works out more than me. It's on you love, what is presentable to you.

[@lacexv]

@@loriell1996 Yes of course, but what i'm referring to is the societal expectation. I am on my own personal battle to overcome my insecurities. I just believe that people in general tend to be harsher about women's appearances than men's.

[@FocusedFighter777]

But then called shallow etc etc etc. I'd rather be unatractive, tehy can just go home and use their hands. From as early as 8, many girls udnerstand THIS: and then we enter vicious cycles to turn LESS ATTARCTIVE. We eat more to gain lots of weight, we wear boys clothes, we hide, etc etc etc. Infuriating how so many men think that our purpose when we get up in the morning is to GET ATTENTION, when I was always fine with avoiding their gross attention. I wanted NOTHING to do with them, and I am 37 yrs old now: still want nothing to do with them. Girls get catcalled at 8. Any women, no matter what they are wearing: are victims of SA/murder. Because it isn't about us: it's about the F'd up fetishes and broken brains of agressors!!!! I did everythig to be ignored. Women understand this, all you have to do is shave your head, wear ugly clothes, even be SMART: and that turns men off. Stay single. You're better off. Most men just want you to exist for them, so 'be ugly'. Be strong and smart, build muscles mass, be independent: men HATE all of this. Then you'll be free.

[@skygirl534]

been there, lol still am sometimes, finding peace with oneself, ones physical appearence and societies exceptation can be daunting, hang in there, it does get better

[@Clips2Watch4You]

You are supposed to look good and presentable. A man is supposed to look good and presentable. What is wrong with looking nice? Why does nobody want to dress well and take care of their appearance?

[@blue______]

I personally shaved my head 2 years ago and during this time I grew it out again and shaved it once again. I DEFINITELY felt the change. First, my family treated me like a crazy person for doing it and they didn't understand what the point was. They asked me what it meant, what I was going to say at work. They said things like "so if people put a penis on their forehead, that's okay?" to give me perspective on my supposedly crazy attitude. On the street I noticed how everyone saw me, but with doubt and disgust. There were women who asked me if I was sick. Men stopped seeing me completely (which I appreciate). Once buying groceries, some guys asked me if I was a man or a woman because I was wearing baggy clothes. I always liked looking androgynous, but you could see the point of their questions. They weren't real, they were full of hate. I also noticed that in the summer, in a contradictory way, men sexualized me more. A lot of this has to do with fetishes on porn sites, I think. Seeing a bald girl wearing tops and shorts was something exotic, rare, forbidden and therefore desirable. All this hate ate my brain so much that I'm now in the process of growing my hair back, even though I don't like the work that goes into growing it like this. Women can't win. This society is very rotten. I encourage all people to do what they want and be who they want (as long as they don't hurt anyone), because people will always have something to say. I love this style on Doja, you can tell she loves it. This is a great video. I hate that we have to keep talking about stuff like this in 2023.

[@FocusedFighter777]

''They asked what the point was''..... THIS. WHY does it have to have such negative bagage attached to it? When men shave their F heads, no one asks W H Y !? From as early as 8, many girls udnerstand THIS: and then we enter vicious cycles to turn LESS ATTARCTIVE. We eat more to gain lots of weight, we wear boys clothes, we hide, etc etc etc. Infuriating how so many men think that our purpose when we get up in the morning is to GET ATTENTION, when I was always fine with avoiding their gross attention. I wanted NOTHING to do with them, and I am 37 yrs old now: still want nothing to do with them. Girls get catcalled at 8. Any women, no matter what they are wearing: are victims of SA/murder. Because it isn't about us: it's about the F'd up fetishes and broken brains of agressors!!!! I did everythig to be ignored. Women understand this, all you have to do is shave your head, wear ugly clothes, even be SMART: and that turns men off. Stay single. You're better off. Most men just want you to exist for them, so 'be ugly'. Be strong and smart, build muscles mass, be independent: men HATE all of this. Then you'll be free.

[@sofdemi8042]

for all the hate you got, i bet you inspired someone to shave their head & express themselves

[@blue______]

@@sofdemi8042 is this sarcasm? 👀

[@sofdemi8042]

@@blue______ no, absolutely not. I know that when I see women not conforming it inspires me.

[@Clips2Watch4You]

Wow somebody thinks their th main character. Lol

[@michelleobrien6996]

I feel Sinéad O'Connor needs a mention here. One of several reasons she gave for cutting off her hair was basically not wanting to look fuckable and wanting the focus to be on her music not on her looks. Ironically her fans (based on a FB fan group I joined) are constantly commenting on Sinéad's physical beauty.

[@mitsurugi52]

I've never been conventionally attractive and I'm very aware of it, so I purposefully move "quietly" and wear clothes that make me look as uninteresting as possible (muted colors, baggy clothes, plain hair, minimal cosmetics/accessories, unscented deodorants, etc.) because I do not want the negative attention that being "ugly" draws from strangers, even if it's usually just disapproving glances.

[@Xara_K1]

I am so thankful to Tina Fey and Amy Poehler because they released me from the prison of desirability as the main requirement when I was a teenager. They were on Oprah and Tina Fey spoke of how she realized as a young child that she wasn't conventionally attractive so she figured she'd have to find something else to set her aside as unique and that's when she focused on her being funny. My mind was blown

[@fivemargaritasonly]

That's insane too, Tina fey has always seemed conventionally attractive...the bar for women is in the stratosphere. It's really impossible to just live 😅

[@Gabster1990]

If you look at old photos, Tina Fey was overweight and had awful hairstyles. It definitely didn't help her look.

[@sinegugundlovu1984]

South African here 🙂 I have been shaving my hair (buzz-cut) for the past two years and let me tell you, the confidence it gives me!! I surprisingly get more male attention - but personally it's more of a lazy choice because I like to wash and go. However, I've been thinking about how even this is rooted in privilege - I know that for some women, particularly black South Africans, beauty is SO complicated and we straddle this weird line between our AFRICAN ROOTS (no pressure) and lace-front magic. I do not judge women for their hairstyles but it is often a burden you witness in their private lives.

[@aperson2140]

Glad for this conversation because tbh “body positivity” has just turned to “toxic positivity” because no woman can say “I feel ugly today” without someone saying “no you’re beautiful!! Don’t think that about yourself!!” It feels so invalidating and puts beauty on a pedestal when tbh I think being ugly isn’t really a bad thing (morally).

[@Jane-oz7pp]

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK I am pretty average, at best, and yet people insist on trying to convince me I'm super hot whenever I simply acknowledge the truth that I'm... not that pretty? Like, it's a neutral concept to me, just like how I'm a little fat and literally do not care about it. But they always act like it's tragic af that I don't think I'm Megan Fox or something. Like, girl, I'm happy being mediocre, so let me be that?

[@goldenglowable]

I said this a few years ago ( that I don’t like my natural curl pattern) in a natural hair forum and they reacted as if I was bleaching my skin 🥴

[@espeon871]

I think that movement is very of its time cuz back then like women's appearance were like peak compliment and being, but now people are moving to neutrality and i think maybe the rise of people reading certain theories like eg fem that make people realising that its not helpful to be like ure pretty as peak compliment cuz it moralises beauty like u said

[@elsnk.o2345]

Idk I think that’s normal? And kind? If I’m saying I’m ugly i think I appreciate someone not letting me dwell in this distorted perception of myself. What is the alternative? They agree? or don’t even refute my statement? I’d leave the conversation still thinking of myself as ugly. I think it’s valuable to challenge these perceptions, because I don’t think thinking of yourself, talking about yourself as ugly is productive for anyone.

[@aperson2140]

@@elsnk.o2345 to me it feels like I’m saying “I’m unhappy with my appearance” and then them saying “Just be happy about it” which is toxic positivity to me. I’ve learned to just shut up about my appearance and my feelings because of this. Ultimately different people want different things and if it works for you that’s great but it doesn’t work for everyone. I think the best response for me is “It’s ok to feel that way, everyone has days where they feel worse about their appearance”

[@gilliantheadventurer]

as a nonbinary person who's gotten top surgery, i noticed a stark contrast in the attention i would receive from strangers (esp the menses) because people spend more time trying to figure out *what i am* before they come to any conclusions about whether or not i'm attractive to them. dating post-op was a bit harder too because people were more curious in what i got under the clothes than interested in me. my current long-term partner is also nonbinary and so i find that the t4t dynamic is so freeing since we admire the gender incongruent aspects of each other's appearance

[@madiedamonsta]

It's like how someone asked DJ Khalid "why haven't you lost any weight?" And his answer was "I don't lose, all I do is win." Like that shit is bonkers. Like I couldn't imagine a woman rapper being "his size" and having any sort of success.

[@jessicahill9127]

One year, after a lifetime of being overweight, I got really into horseback riding and weight lifting. Lost 70 pounds. The way people treated me, men and women, completely changed. I was met with smiles, people seemed infinitely more polite and willing to help me. It was a complete eye opener. Depressing, but very revealing. I even got my first workplace stalker. It almost made me want to go back to being overweight because I felt much more 'safe'. Still kept the weight off for my health and because it did make me feel better, but I'll always remember that feeling of going from elation to being 'attractive' and 'welcomed' and 'accepted', to the realization that I was also less safe just because my body looked different on the outside.

[@rebecca8866]

So true. I had the opposite happen to me. I was attractive and thin and did modeling but the moment I wasn't struggling with my eating disorder as much and actually gained some weight and looked healthy, people called me fat. And now I actually am fat. I wear size XL and XXL when I used to wear XS. The way I have been treated since not wearing make up, being fat and stopped trying, is unbelievable. I have been treated like shit and bullied by random kids too when I go out, they have called me names. When I was pretty instead kids would come up to me and call me a princess at my work. When I lost pretty privilege I was treated worse, however the fat made me feel safer. I've survived s.a. and getting fat made me feel safer. Like no one hits on me at all and I feel safer. I'm not healthier because of the weight, and I know I should lose it for my health, but feeling unapproachable makes me feel safer. That's why I used to dress goth and alternative. It definitely scared people away. But I read that some study was done that proved that people who survive s.a. or abuse tend to gain weight subconsciously as a way to protect themselves. I just thought I would share that with you. Hope you are doing well in life and hope that you can wear whatever you want without fear someday.

[@username-mk4qv]

I hope I don’t sound rude and I am sure you mean well but that’s harmful and a bit dismissive because that’s kind of implying that stalkers and attacks only happen to attractive people. Plenty of not conventionally attractive women have been stalked and attacked and feel unsafe. Sure desirable people will have stalkers and creepos come on to them but the truth is, most attackers go after victims for reasons other than sex etc. They are just evil and looking for victims. I don’t mean to attack you but I just want folks to understand that “undesirable” people are NOT more safe than attractive people are. In fact, often they are LESS safe because they seem more vulnerable, have less eyes on them, and because let’s face it, the public doesn’t care as much when an ugly person is in trouble. Also I know you’re not saying this, but that kind of thinking is also the “logic” behind victim blaming. Where people think “she must’ve been attacked because she’s too pretty, too out there, too provocative,” etc when the reality is, any woman can be a victim. Not just pretty women. Stay safe out there everyone.

[@theartoflolita935]

​@@rebecca8866I'm sorry about the s.a. I hope you can heal. I'm glad you're finding comfort in your style❤ I wish us women never got bad attention for the way we look.

[@FocusedFighter777]

Yup, it's that F'd up... From as early as 8, many girls udnerstand THIS: and then we enter vicious cycles to turn LESS ATTARCTIVE. We eat more to gain lots of weight, we wear boys clothes, we hide, etc etc etc. Infuriating how so many men think that our purpose when we get up in the morning is to GET ATTENTION, when I was always fine with avoiding their gross attention. I wanted NOTHING to do with them, and I am 37 yrs old now: still want nothing to do with them. Girls get catcalled at 8. Any women, no matter what they are wearing: are victims of SA/murder. Because it isn't about us: it's about the F'd up fetishes and broken brains of agressors!!!! I did everythig to be ignored. Women understand this, all you have to do is shave your head, wear ugly clothes, even be SMART: and that turns men off. Stay single. You're better off. Most men just want you to exist for them, so 'be ugly'. Be strong and smart, build muscles mass, be independent: men HATE all of this. Then you'll be free.

[@whatever3145]

Idk as a fat girl women have always been very kind to me. And being thinner and hotter has it's risks and disadvantages. Makes you a target. Makes you the center of attention and not all of us like that

[@swagata1354]

Honestly I was surprised with people's reaction about her appearance. I've been following her pre Pink era and she's always been the type to do whatever and just have fun. I guess this is the first time she really challenged the people apparently "supporting" her.....Like she's just living her life...

[@hjrdaku8793]

when it comes to the whole "ugly privilege" concept, i would just like to add that most feminist discussions on sexual harassment are focused solely on attractive women's experiences with it, and never on the way ugly women experience it, to the point where people will ridecule "ugly" SA victims, and accuse them of lying if they speak out. it's so important to talk about though bc it often adds on more layers of cruelty, whether it's sarcasm, disgust or being framed as a creep yourself. like i remember being a 13 year old girl and having 15 year old boys tell me out loud in front of pretty much my whole class that my pussy must be disgusting, hairy, and loose, and that i probably masturbate about people in my class. to say sexual harassment is something even remotely exclusive or special about pretty women, is just such a slap in the face to everyone who have had to deal with this specific kind of disgusted sexualized bullying

[@madinp1177]

Yeah, the times when I've been sexually harrassed most frequently was when I was at my fattest and ugliest. The incidents of harassment massively decreased as I lost weight, started wearing make-up and my skin got slightly better. It's so annoying. Undesirable women are not "safe" from harassment in any way but no pretty woman will hear it.

[@Twink6629-lg3te]

I am so sorry that happened to you. I’ve had similar experiences. When I was at my most “ugly” it’s honestly like boys my age felt like I was “easier” like I was some kind of discounted goods while pretty girls were the designer brands. There are so many boys who see girls as nothing more then walking sex dolls vs people and it’s sad and disgusting. They viewed me as easier cuz we’re lower on the social hierarchy automatically. As a young trans guy who didn’t realize it yet, I always wanted to fit in with boys, but being an ugly girl who wanted to fit into them, I was always singled out for being a girl, groped “as a joke”, and I definitely had my share of “pick me” attitudes. I cared so much what the wrong people thought. I sympathize with you and hope you have healed from that experience (I still have a lot of work to do on that 😅)

[@Sequoia98]

I'm so sorry for your experience. I noticed that men are even more violent with women they don't find attractive. They are crueler to them and mishandle the fact that this type of woman rejects their advances on top of that.

[@aliasfakename3159]

Fortunately, I existed in a gray area. I definitely wasn't pretty but I wasn't ugly enough to be noticed either. I was basically a non-person in the male gaze

[@poppitypopcorn]

The hilarious thing about trying to be "feminine" as an unconventional attractive person is that people will still think you're ugly. When I wore makeup for the first time, pick-me girls who put me down tried gaslighting me into thinking that "I don't need to wear makeup to feel pretty", even though they literally made fun of my bare face. This one girl in particular who made it her mission to call me ugly every day tried telling me that I should "feel confident". She even wrote a whole essay in our English class on why young girls shouldn't wear makeup. She was literally a sociopath. Box braids were my signature hairstyle back then. I would wear my braids in a ponytail all the time. When I wore my braids down for the first time, this boy said I was doing too much and that I would never be pretty. The audacity to say this when he was big and beat up in the face! Styling clothes was the hardest part. I had hand-me-downs from older siblings/cousins because of my family's financial issues. The clothes I had were big and baggy and I got picked on for them. I was "friends" with this one girl who literally said she would never hang out with me or anyone who didn't "dress good". On days I did she acknowledged my presence and pretended to be my "friend". She was awful, there are many fucked up things she did to me and I truly hate her to this day. This was a couple of years ago when thrasher shirts, skinny ripped jeans, slip-on vans, and Jordan 12s were trending. Since some of those brands were expensive, most ppl wore the same outfits for 2-3 days in a row. But they never got shit for them because they were attractive. Now as I got a little bit older I could afford trendy/expensive clothing, but guess what? I still get shit on for that. Just like with makeup and changing hairstyles, people will always see me as the "ugly one". No matter what I can never win in the end. When I "improve" myself I'm trying too hard. When I don't it's a free pass to disrespect.

[@Clips2Watch4You]

So pretty girls made you upset by telling you you don't need makeup. Wow what a hard life. Why not just do what you wanna do anyway? Lol

[@poppitypopcorn]

​@@Clips2Watch4You Uh no? I was pointing out how hypocritical it was for them and everyone else to put me (and anyone who relates) down for "looking ugly" and then be judgmental for trying to improve. But I don't think you really understood what I wrote and just wanted to be sarcastic.

[@Clips2Watch4You]

@poppitypopcorn I've never met or seen someone who puts down people for looking better. That's not normal. If you were around crazy people's then how does that bother you? I've gone out looking gorgeous and looking like a crack addict, people are nice either way. Who are you around that follows you and calls you ugly?

[@poppitypopcorn]

@@Clips2Watch4You you must live a perfect life if you never had that experience lol. It's called insecurity, some people can't stand being around others who look/act better than them. Then they try to put them down just to make themselves feel better (projection). Also, it's not like I'm choosing to be around them, they are just there. For me, it's coworkers or schoolmates that I have to be around. It's impossible to just avoid these people because you're always going to encounter them in life.

[@Clips2Watch4You]

@poppitypopcorn so if they're insecure and just doing it to feel better, how does that hurt you? If they are so jealous of you that they act up like that then maybe you're not the ugly one

[@briannacovers8113]

I used to spend hours getting ready every day. No one told me I was ugly I just felt the need to be desirable. The only way I thought people would be interested in me was if I was attractive. I felt trapped to continue the same strenuous routine just because I didn't want to give that up and I didn't want to be rejected by my peers. Now I do what I want, sometimes I wear a full face sometimes I don't, I change my hair like every day, and I use what I've learned about desirability to make shit happen for myself. I'm a human being not a doll I deserve to just exist

[@kayli7278]

I used to not wear makeup in my 20's because I thought that "low-maintenance" women were more desirable to the men around me. In my mid-thirties now and I look like a damn clown walking out of the house. Finding your own style is so freeing.

[@Lalalalala629]

I’m the opposite, I used to cake my face, and wore at least mascara to everyday. One time I took a shower right before bed, saw that my crush snap chatted me and I REAPPLIED MAKEUP!! Just to take it off again. Now I don’t wear makeup at all and I feel so fucking free. I’ve always loved applying makeup but I couldn’t feel beautiful without it. I haven’t put makeup on in over a year and I love my normal face again. I’m glad you found something that’s just for you ❤️

[@NoodleMcGee]

I don't know why anyone would criticize Doja Cat for her appearance. The opportunity to criticize her for being an edge-lord and a sex pest is right there.

[@pinkrunt]

real

[@erikaenchante]

@AlexUTTP876 ???????

[@ladyteebugluv]

Exactly, I don’t see anything wrong with Doja wanting to shave her head, but I guess people suppose that she looks more sexy in the more hyper feminine style, but its not about want *they* want, because at the end of the day she has to live with herself and look at herself every single day. It’s sad because the type of people who will criticize *Doja* for her appearance will be the *samee* people who don’t want anyone to criticize *them* for how *they* look …. Smh 🤦‍♀️

[@diamcole]

Seriously lol. Her appearance is the last thing I would critique, there are so many other things she's done to choose from.

[@TreeHairedGingerAle]

HELLO! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾✨ We need to enter the era of criticizing for the right reasons!! 😂

[@Gingerscruffy_Underfluffy]

A big part of my gender transition was finally cutting my hair. When I was a kid, I wasn't allowed to cut my hair and it was down to my waist. The moment I came out as ftm, off went the hair! It was incredibly liberating. Didn't stop the creepy attention, and I got some nasty comments from family, but it actually made me realize that I needed to love myself first, to be authentic, to find my voice, because if we don't do that...what's the point of an individualized human experience? Just my two cents. Thank you for the wonderful video. Be well.

[@FocusedFighter777]

Same, shaving my hair was a problem but not for my brothers.... From as early as 8, many girls udnerstand THIS: and then we enter vicious cycles to turn LESS ATTARCTIVE. We eat more to gain lots of weight, we wear boys clothes, we hide, etc etc etc. Infuriating how so many men think that our purpose when we get up in the morning is to GET ATTENTION, when I was always fine with avoiding their gross attention. I wanted NOTHING to do with them, and I am 37 yrs old now: still want nothing to do with them. Girls get catcalled at 8. Any women, no matter what they are wearing: are victims of SA/murder. Because it isn't about us: it's about the F'd up fetishes and broken brains of agressors!!!! I did everythig to be ignored. Women understand this, all you have to do is shave your head, wear ugly clothes, even be SMART: and that turns men off. Stay single. You're better off. Most men just want you to exist for them, so 'be ugly'. Be strong and smart, build muscles mass, be independent: men HATE all of this. Then you'll be free.

[@Sam-pnk]

It's the paradox of a society that keeps trying to lead people to the complete individualism (plus alienation) where you just should care about yourself and only yourself BUT The moment you do that, the moment you do whatever YOU feel like doing, they IMMEDIATELY point at you saying "Nuh-uh, not like that". And the funniest thing is,,, that it happens even inside the non-normativity (LGBT+, plus-sized ppl, racialized features...). If you are different in the "wrong way" you will be seen as ugly, weird or bizarre... Now I wonder if it has something to do with how capitalised your existence can be 🤔 PS: As a transmasc myself, I'm REALLY REALLY happy to read that you're now finding and finally being yourself -even tho I don't know you- 🐗💕

[@Gingerscruffy_Underfluffy]

@@Sam-pnk Thank you. Be well 💚

[@Nerdasaurus13]

I'm trans-femme and growing up I was always drawn to the intentional undesirability of punk rock music, and that's only heightened as I've started my transition. There's a lot of pressure for MTF trans to be hyper-femme and to "pass" even from within the community, and I'm just not interested in that. I want to feel pretty sometimes, sure, but I also still enjoy throwing on some Sum-41 and feeling like a grungy outsider. Thank you for the great video detangling some of the mess surrounding femininity and desirability!

[@eugeniam.4230]

i started letting my body hair grow out because i got tired of bringing pain to myself everytime i wanted to be sexy and "ready for sex". It also repels unwanted "dick energy". Its still a little difficult to not think about my hairy body while having sex or when i wear short skirts, but this thought still echoes in my head, "why should i be in pain to feel pretty and presentable?"

[@ЧёяКтоя]

When I was younger I thought in the future everyone will look like this. I actually love her style now and draw inspiration for my going out fits. So I was shocked so many people reacted this way

[@bizbaby]

You rock with her anti blackness and racist baiting as well as her support of SA?

[@honeyst6133]

I found it annoying that I saw people on Twitter, especially men, saying that Doja Cat used to be pretty and the only reason she lost weight and changed your appearance is to not be attractive anymore to them, as if it’s a woman’s job to be desirable for a man only and not just be who they want to be for themselves. It was very strange, and I couldn’t go past not commenting on that, like, what do you mean?

[@crippycooke8743]

Women are literally saying the same thing, claiming she's doing it so men leave her alone. So once again, robbing her of autonomy and involving the male gaze. Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing to timeline someone's behaviour and show concern if you think they're going through something. Britney was struggling when she shaved hers. She hasn't shaven it since. I hate falling into the sexist trap, but the statistics back it up. It usually means mental health when somebody makes such a drastic appearance change, particularly removing all hair

[@Ruby...X]

@crippycooke8743 Removing all your hair is nowhere near a "drastic change" you either never saw a bald woman or never been outside. I know and saw people who had/have bald hair and who are perfectly sane. Stop being dense.

[@crippycooke8743]

@@Ruby...X Your anecdotal evidence doesn't change the statistics and testimony of experts.

[@honeyst6133]

@@crippycooke8743 At the same time, Britney was also going through a tough time in the media and was being touched by men or people, so she cut her hair to be less attractive to those people because she wanted autonomy over her body and her image. I think Doja could go through that if we were to assume she was just like the stars of the past. But she has clearly stated that she actually likes being bald, and it makes her feel free, considering that we have more access to celebrities and their thoughts. I will take her word for it. She has clearly stated she doesn’t really like wigs, having to do her hair all the time and likes to be more creative and push boundaries when it comes to fashion and you can clearly see that through her recent projects and her recent looks.

[@knitmore3]

This hit me so hard. When I say I get it, I really get it. I’m 53 and have no desire to be desirable. I started getting hit on by grown men at 5. SA at 7. Way too much attention from men and I was terrified of them for obvious reasons. I often dressed grunge to try to deter. Didn’t stop the SA’s. Last one of my childhood at 17. I often say if it was a thing or even if I slightly new about gender construct I would have changed my gender. I would often dream I was a boy to stop the madness. Oh yeah I’ve definitely cut my hair off. Heck did it just two years ago and now have locs. People think I’m nuts.

[@knitmore3]

Also yep I was blamed for everything that happened as a child because of how I looked. My mom put my in a girdle at 6 because she said my butt shook too much. Not allowed to wear shorts or tank tops. And this still happened?! I had so many questions.

[@luna-p]

​@CapriceCEtheredgeI am so sorry. I hope you can leave soon.

[@sunnisideup444]

I’m sorry you were blamed for people objectifying you against your will. It sucks they pinned all that over you when they should have known better as a child and a person that’s just trying to exist

[@knitmore3]

@@sunnisideup444 thank you. I remember telling a grandmother and she told me it was my fault for looking the way I do. I still can’t believe that. Thank you.

[@mercygondwe2545]

As someone who is condsidered pretty, I think it's so suffocating sometimes.😭 Like I feel like I'm not allowed to try or take interest in certain aesthetics or certain hobbies cause they're "not for pretty girls". Being told you're wasting your looks if you try do anything non-conventional & getting negative visceral reaction if you do, which has lead me to develop a deep fear for even trying to do so, and being flat out ignored or pushed aside anytime I'm outside the box of conventional beauty.

[@mpGreen03]

For me it's the other way, I felt fine with being myself, then got my first boyfriend, first love, were together for 5+ years and after honeymoon phase he has told me countless times to not dress certain way as I was overweight, called me fat, never called me sexy, pretty etc., in the end that really got into my head and I lost all the confidence, I feel as I am overweight and have acne problems that I cannot dress in feminine way, dye my hair pink, wear flowers in my hair, and because I have "child bearing figure" as some call it as soon as I do put on something feminine - I immediately feel sexualized, and men give my those disgusting dirty looks, esp. old men. So I often end up wearing my baggy jeans and some t-shirt with it. Just to feel at ease. I know it sounds contradicting but this whole patriarchy shit makes many women depressed regardless of how you look, you're always pitted against your body and mental health.

[@zucchinigreen]

You'll always be meh according to someone's beauty standard. Do what you want.

[@mpGreen03]

@@zucchinigreen exactly

[@JaneGetsDough]

same

[@paulmaccaroni]

On a daily basis I don't do makeup, I wear t-shirts and jeans.. nobody looks at me really. However last month I went through a pretty bad infection that had me taking antibiotics that made me gag even thinking about food. Therefore I lost like ten pounds. When I returned to work, I got looks. A lot of my co-workers noticed my weight drop even before I did. I was honestly shocked, since I have been the same weight for so long I didn't expect any changes there. To see how differently people treated me, how much nicer they were and how I wasn't as invisible as usual... idk it really rubbed me the wrong way. I hated the stark duality of how two-faced people can be. And it may even be subconscious, they may not be doing anything on purpose but I see it and I am very uncomfortable with it.

[@thickthickly]

It's easy to not care about being pretty when you still are, despite your best efforts not to be.

[@MsNG82]

Im not convinced about the hair thing. Yea she may not have ever liked hair but she complained about her 4c hair, that’s definitely identity and internalized anti blackness she absorbed.

[@BellesView]

Exactly!

[@KhadijaMbowe]

I didn’t know she said this oop. Yea, that’s gotta be something for her to unpack

[@mr.whatzittooya8339]

Or you don’t have to love the hair you’re born with? It doesn’t have to be some internalized thing

[@lizzybeary]

This makes me think about the whole," Oh the wife let herself go or she just looks different from how she did 20 years ago because aging and/or having a child(ren)," thing. "Therefore, any displeasure her husband has toward her, its her fault."

[@Chucanelli]

I love this exploration. I had so much anxiety and identity around being attractive, and a big part of that was hair. And then, after several years of struggles around PTSD, I discovered buddhism. I read a book by Pema Chödrön that changed my life. It put all of my profound questioning into language that made sense to me, and gave me a path forward. I joined a zen temple. Nothing culty, just quiet, simple, formal meditation practice. Somewhere in there I learned about the process of getting ordained. Monks and nuns go through it. It involves shaving their heads. It symbolizes accepting the self as an ephemeral thing, not to be grasped onto or used. The first time I went to a sitting period at the temple, I had a quick chat with one of the teachers beforehand, as the website advised. One of the things she told me was about casting my eyes downward, not looking around during practice. She called it “keeping custody of your gaze.” Easy enough. But the experience of being in a room of people doing that, of knowing *I* wasn’t being looked at, was eye-opening. I felt a sense of safety I couldn’t recall feeling…well, ever. Formal meditation, within a community and with guiding teachers, sends you to the darkest places in yourself. You meet the parts of you you abandoned years ago. Making friends with those cringey, humiliated, heartbroken parts is harrowing. It’s hard. Once you go through all of that, caring about hair seems a little silly. I mean, you don’t have to give up the fun of doing stuff with your hair, if that’s fun for you (which, for Doja Cat, it wasn’t), but it no longer carries this dire, identity-defining weight. It’s just hair.

[@DiscoBisco777]

I feel like I’m waking up, like I used to worry so much about how I look and what people wanted from me and how to present myself, I was filtered. Doja and people like her are helping me find confidence in just doing what I want. It’s nice.

[@MiCas0205]

oh my lord. I literally had to make an emergency appointment with my therapist on monday because this concept of "undesirability" was making me feel so bad that i was being haunted by suicidal thoughts (Im going thru a breakup and i have severe depression. Don't come for me). Thanks for doing this, Khadija

[@luna-p]

❤❤❤

[@paulmaccaroni]

Glad you're going to a therapist! Hope you can feel better sometime down the line.

[@Amberxxbbunni]

I joke you get better soon💗

[@affie3279]

((hugs friend))

[@danimoonie]

Wishing you the best ❤ keep going

[@BrigitteEmpire]

Maybe this is just a trans thing but as someone who is not conventionally attractive despite how much male attention can be grating I find myself still just longing to be that conventional ideal of beauty no matter how unattainable it is

[@2doot]

THIS THIS THIS THIS OH MY GOD like I'm transmasc NB, I don't like being perceived as a girl. I loathe it. I also can't stand male attention in that sense. Cat calling is disgusting. I loath being hit on. BUT there's just inherently a need to be desirable? Like I want to know, as superficial as it is, that people find me attractive. It's so weird.

[@ww3196]

​@@2dootHELLO ANOTHER TRANSMASC ENBY HERE!! AND YES.... I also relate so deeply.

[@nerojones2280]

I think the fact you can vocalize that struggle makes you a pretty smart cookie

[@sharkofjoy]

It's a trap. Being physically attractive doesn't make you safe or human. The flavor of the dehumanization changes, but that's all. You can never, ever win.

[@chonkybonky]

We’re socialized to believe that male desirability is the peak of social wealth. That kind of thinking takes years to un-internalize

[@squirrelsinmykoolaid]

Been doing readings for disability studies and a common theme that's been coming up is disabled bodies being labeled as "monstrous" or "grotesque". In a more social model of disability, folks with conditions that affect their appearance would fall under disability because of how they are treated. This would include things like burns, scars, facial birthmarks, albinism, vitiligo etc. I especially thought of alopecia (and also cancer) during this video because of the hair shaving, and eyebrow shaving/bleaching. We associate hairlessness with illness and disability. That impacts how people are treated by society at large.

[@MsLolaTaylor]

That's deep . And real. And this video about doja proves it

[@abilitywithamy1863]

As a disabled woman, I feel like I am invisible or infantilized! And before this, I was able-bodied and "conventionally attractive" and got hit on and harassed way too often. I just want something in the middle. It seems like people don't know what compliments are or something.

[@Solararisa]

Doja's appearance is the LAST thing I am worried about, lmao. I never even thought of it because of the crazy stunts she has been pulling the past few months by dating an alleged predator and blocking his victims for speaking out.

[@karmacrackdown]

I was very pretty when I was a teenager, and I looked a lot older than I was (commonly mistaken for 21+ when I was 15). I'm also autistic and was deeply uncomfortable with the attention associated with "pretty privilege." I was honestly relieved when I started gaining weight, because it meant more and more people left me the hell alone.

[@pixxiekity]

Omg yes I'm also autistic and considered "pretty" but it's soo much work to exist

[@Enriquez2222]

I gained so much weight, it felt good to walk around the world without men catcalling me. I recently lost it but I find that dressing more androgynous gives the same vibe.

[@margicates553]

Same. I was so young, I had no tools, I was crazy vulnerable. And everyone blamed me for men’s behavior because I was hot and should “know better .” So relieved to be older, more intimidating and out of my ingenue years.

[@MsLolaTaylor]

Unless you're black living around black ppl lol

[@emergencyasmr]

I get it. I dress in baggy clothes for several reasons and one being that I’m tired of being objectified. I also do my makeup in a way that I love but men can’t stand lol. It’s crazy how they think that not only their opinions matter but that women only exist to be ogled

[@eylora_]

I was assaulted for both, being considered pretty or ugly. Dealing with some trashy bothering disguised as seduction, calling me by my ethinicity and saying things from unwanted compliments to sexual slur. But also called "disgusting" and other dirty insults by a man, adressing me and a friend, both on a casual look with no make-up... It is like... The most prevalent privilege in all those situation was the nerve from those men who knew there would be no consequences.

[@webspinner420]

for me getting street harassed feels less irritating and more threatening. I don't think I've ever considered someone cat calling me to be hot because my brain just goes into self preservation mode. even if it's benign, I've just had so many experiences where harassment turns aggressive, men decide to follow me, grab me forcefully etc. even if someone was my type I don't think I could ever consider someone hot who was harassing me on the street

[@aarohiJadhav-x8t]

I had never been considered attractive before the pandemic during which i lost a lot of weight and got my braces off when i went back to school people that used to call me ugly to my face started treating me so differently, girls included so i felt this this pressure look good and ended up getting an eating disorder. So much of my selfworth is tied to the way i look that i even treat myself better when i look good enough.

[@boneymacaroni13]

The glasses are giving Morpheus, and I'm living for it.

[@inaciasilva2024]

You mean Corinthian?

[@eyesofwater123]

It's pathetic that our value as a person is tied to our looks. 😒

[@d2h655]

Y'all remember that terrifying saying on Twitter? The whole "SA is the only way ugly chicks will get it" so screwed up. Like this entire conversation is much needed but also cursed to hell and back

[@elmoworld850]

This is solid, it really makes you wonder 🤔🤔🤔. I remembered when Elliot Page started transitioning, a lot of people were harassing him about how he "effed up his looks" or how he "was so gorgeous before". I felt bad for him. Chaz Bono didn't get that same reaction when he started transitioning. Even if he did, it wasn't as much as Elliot's and people have gotten over it.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

To quote Jessica Rabbit: “I’m not bad, I’m just drawn that way.”

[@binkiebrew]

It's crazy actually. It was the first time in a long time that I got the full make-up treatment since I was a bridesmaid and when I was going downstairs to check up on my car I felt eyes in a way I have never felt before. It's so weird. On one hand, I liked feeling pretty, but at the other, I was really uncomfortable with how people treated me. They were extra nice.

[@susanswanson5487]

I always notice a difference in how I’m treated when I try vs when I “don’t”, but I also find that when I don’t try I’m so much more conscious of the fact that I probably do not look attractive and therefore project a much more standoff-ish manner. I’m not sure if that comes from insecurity at potentially not being found attractive or if it’s because I feel a sense of freedom that I don’t exist to please others, but I kind of feel like the scale might tip towards the former.. I think about this often.

[@seaurchinted]

There’s something freeing about just accepting weirdness and ugliness. I embraced a much more androgynous/futchy style when I started college and honestly… I feel more myself than I did trying out a lot of feminine styles as a young teen. As a teenager I felt like I was playing pretend; like someone trying super hard to be a girl but just wasn’t pulling it off right, like it was forced. I feel a lot more comfortable but I know there is no place for me among conventionally attractive standards for women. A world under patriarchy will never respect me anyway because I am a woman. So why not just throw all caution to the wind and go crazy?

[@carlybun231]

Doja actually inspired me to shave my head. I've done pixie cuts but never walked into a barber shop and walked out with a fade. It's been an interesting transition and definitely made me hyper-aware of the concept of desirability and feminine beauty standards. I've always been that person who doesn't shave her legs or armpits and not owning any makeup besides an eyebrow pencil and mascara, but hair is a whole other level. It's wild how much of our identity - particularly our relationship with our femininity - is tied up in our hair. It became the most apparent to me when I interacted with my partner. He was so loving and supportive and said I looked great no matter what but I was stunned by my own sudden insecurity. I was concerned about whether the man who I've been married to for ELEVEN YEARS would still be attracted to me. I think every woman should shave her head at least once because it's a fascinating way to really examine and experience both the world's and your own relationship with the concepts of desirability and femininity. Plus, gotta say, I'm not mad about how much I'm saving now that I'm not buying Olaplex products lol

[@ban3621]

I hate pretty privilege vs ugly privilege discourse with a passion (especially on twitter) cause the way ppl go about these discussions you’d believe that only beautiful women can be victims of abuse whereas the rest of us gallivant across the meadows without a care in the world and that simply isn’t true. What’s worse is that women on twitter fully believe being pretty is a crutch and that they’ve suffered more than any woman because of that, even though just a few months ago these same ppl wouldn’t stop talking about the things they’ve gained access too thanks to being attractive.

[@carmendelcastillo7724]

Very true. They don't realize that we ugliest have our own issues. Cause if we as young adults are not found attractive we internalize that. We may not be ugly but not being desirable hurts because we are made to think we are not good enough for just being us. It can be stressful to be a beautiful woman. It can. I understand that but it's hard being ugly and undesirable. I hope they can understand that. But it often seems like they don't.

[@maggiedukes3191]

I don't like the idea of putting women into boxes in this way. I understand that there is a bit of a purpose when trying to get across how your life experiences are different, but it still feels weird. Also, yeah I would be curious to see if there are any studies done on the correlation between assult victims and attractiveness. I highly doubt there is since studies mostly show that most people are SA by people they know, sadly while they are still very young, and typically just in vulnerable situations. I could be wrong, but I would say that rapists aren't looking for people they find attractive, they are looking for someone to assult

[@PAL5041]

D'Angelo Wallace made a video abt her and i agree w him that Doja is just being a human and there's nothing wrong and that she is using the curreng shock to her advantage

[@LittleMsSunnyD]

I’ve felt something similar because I hated being objectified… I’m so glad to have outgrown the male gaze. Life is so much simpler now

[@aatika794]

RANT LOL I wore my hijab for 9 years. The minute I took it off, the way I was treated was completely different. I wasn’t hyper aware of having to be the “proper Muslim woman” somehow being the sole representative for Islam (pressure by both Muslims and non Muslims). People are kinder to me now and getting used to the attention was jarring. When I was wearing the hijab I was either a prude or not modest enough. Now that I dress however I choose, I go from wearing baggy clothes to get less attention and wearing a little more umph and getting a v uncomfortable amount of attention. People treat me better now because they find me desirable. It’s really sad especially because I was hyper visible and invisible at the same time as a hijabi and was made to feel like I didn’t belong.

[@BelanceM]

I think what happened was HOW it all started. She was online for a bit crying because she never felt pretty with her type 4 hair and how she didn't have mixed hair yadda yadda. So it makes sense why people was alarmed even her Stylist was shocked. Howeverrrrrr the amount of times she explained afterwards that she was fine. And that wigs fit better and how she was finding herself over again. And people just DIDNT LEAVE HER ALONE TO DO SO! She then got a little bit like F U but it sucks because now it's honestly dtouring her from where she needs to be to find her because everyone is trying to tell her what to do or who to be. And she looked cute bald headed. I also feel like she I grew up black a lil alternative and really into anime and loved switching my style. (Mind you growing up we actually praised individuality unlike today where everyone looks the same) she not doing anything all that different to me. But I can acknowledge even then there wasn't a lot of alt black kids. But you see how willow and doja got looked at. I just think doja gets it worse because she's louder with it. And she WAS the beauty standard and is choosing to actively not be it. (I think its choosing now because it was for herself now I think everything is a middle finger

[@Bloobadgerz]

This might be kinda ranty but as an autistic lesbian I have never fit the standard of beauty and when I tried fitting into it, it just hurt me more than anything. When I started "dressing butch" I felt comfortable finally.I did notice however the difference when at work I was treated lesser than by customers in customer service jobs. I was yelled at and automatically assumed to have "hated myself", "hated my job" or had a bad attitude. But this difference in treatment has been present even before I started working. I have noticed how different I have always been treated since I was in middle school, where people picked on me for anything, and this could be both due to me being autistic and being different, or the fact that beauty standards did not make sense to me so I frequently didn't understand why I was encouraged to wear makeup, make my hair presentable, and wear "better fitting" clothing. Even in my own family for christmas one day my brother gifted me makeup, and I had never asked for makeup or expressed interest in it, but the message was clear, I was not "doing my part as a woman" to everyone else around me. Unfortunately I took the message and began trying to do makeup and it was clear that people found me more respectable then, but I was very unhappy, sensory wise makeup sucks, and I felt like this was not who I was and I was doing make up for the wrong reasons. Im 23 now and I dress strictly in what makes me comfortable, I don't care anymore if I don't dress my age or dress professionally, but it is a hard journey for anyone affected by misogyny. I understand though that there is a level of undesirability within my own identity as an autistic lesbian, so my perspective is different. However I loved this video and I loved the way you touched on the nuance of it all. Im looking forward to reading the comments and everyone else's experience.

[@randomnerd3402]

Fellow autistic here. I've felt the same way about beauty standards nit making a lick of sense. My detachment from it makes me feel really bad for feminine people who are under massive pressure to wear makeup.

[@keeshy]

As another neurodivirgent, yes, there are so many layers. Growing up, I definitely struggled to understand what the beauty standards were and got picked on for not following them. I think I got especially picked on when I tried to beautify myself but didn't succeed. People can sense that you care what they think, and they can use that against you. When you can project the feeling that you don't give a fuck, they tend to leave you alone more. Growing up, I also felt like I was in a double bind because if I tried to project that I didn't care, I wouldn't be successful and people would make fun of me for trying to look tougher than I was. You just can't win.

[@SapphireChristella]

As a Black femme in her early 20s who’s societally attractive, but has always dressed alternatively, heavily inspired by sex workers, I’ve noticed that the way that I’ve been treated as a desirable object fluctuates a lot. A growing up in a predominantly white area I was ignored no matter risqué I dressed. And then I moved to New Orleans and I was followed and harassed and all of a sudden I realized how societally attractive I was. And now all I want is not to be desired, but for my creativity and my love of fashion, and how I expressed my personality through my appearance (when I choose to) to be appreciated instead of what someone else wants to do to my body.

[@nana8135]

I totally get that

[@merlt8238]

I am white and have always considered myself a feminist, and it wasn't until we had a new hire at work who I became close friends with that understood the difference in pressure of beauty standards that women of colour face. I would always wear business casual, no make up, no jewellery, and I look kind of frumpy. I am pretty average in the looks department and it has never been a big issue for me, when my colleague joined I was shocked at how differently she was treated. She asked me if it was OK for her to wear a headwrap as part of her business casual attire, as she was trying to grow her natural hair out longer and wanted a big beautiful natural afro. When I became friends with her she used to tell me about her struggles with her hair and the toll some of the beauty treatments had taken on her scalp. People started treating her differently when she stopped wearing hair extensions and wigs, it really shocked me if I am honest. There was a particular incident where one of the senior members of staff had spoken down to her and assumed she was a cleaner because she was wearing a headwrap and was black. This really pissed me off for two reasons, one that she had assumed that she could not have been part of the main business due to her "look", and two that she thought it would be OK to talk down to someone she thought was "just a cleaner". There were also a number of other incidents that did not sit right with me including comments made by a black man that we worked with about her appearance, and opinions on how she should present herself. This again shocked me as I know that particular individual only spoke to her so rudely because she was a woman of colour. The whole experience really made me re-evaluate what I thought about feminism and respect women receive in the work place. It was what made me seek out more voices like this youtube channel to understand perspectives and experiences different from my own.