Kill MiGs! Getting the Gorillas Ready for War: Paco Geisler (Part 1)

[@frankfagan]

Thank you for this interview. Paco's my dad (I'm Frank III), and I still love to hear stories, many of which I never had the chance to hear until these interviews. For what it's worth, he still carries the "humble" side with him... he talks when he's asked about his time, but he never presents it or uses it for his benefit. Just a humble, damned capable pilot.

[@10percenttrue]

Frank, thank you for the comment and for sharing a perspective of your father that those of us outside the family circle cannot see.

[@TomYoureDoingItWrong]

Frank, tell your dad I said hello. He won't remember me, but I was a Crew Chief on 77-162 (B) and 82-044 (D) at the FWS at Nellis. I used to strap him in a couple times per month before he went to the 4477th. Buzz Buzze was the commander.

[@dennissmith8947]

Love this 🔝. Hearing from a proud son 👍🏻

[@TomYoureDoingItWrong]

I was an F-15 Crew Chief at the FWS from April of 82 to October of 85, on the Tubs (B 77-162 and D 82-044). I strapped Paco's backside into MY jets numerous times. He was always fun to BS with while he was doing his preflight. He mentioned Buzz Buzze a couple times. Buzz was the F-15 FWS commander when I got there, then he went to one of the Agressor squadrons; I don't remember if it was the 64th or 65th. Bill Lamb (Lambchop) was our next commander. I can see a lot of faces in my mind, but names are escaping me. Don Ross, Paul Stuckey, and Tom Berry come to mind. Kevin Dunleavy was a Range Officer on flying status who flew in my backseat a few times per month. Kevin and I grew up in the same town and graduated from the same high school, so it was old home week every time he came out. Stuckey and a student who went by Kong came out to fly in my jet one day. Kong played football at the Academy, and made Stuckey (who was a big guy) look puny. Stuckey climbed the ladder and onto the left intake when Kong stepped on the bottom rung. The nose gear strut dropped two inches, as God is my witness. Paco left to go fly Migs up at Groom Lake for the 4477th. The last time I saw him we were both gassing our cars at an Exxon station on Nellis Blvd. I sure he won't remember me, but I remember him. Great interview bringing back 40-year-old memories.

[@wagram]

This is the most fighter pilot thing I have ever seen. What a legend.

[@Dan-qp1el]

Steve's channel deserves 1,000,000 subscribers.

[@eicjc]

“Couldn’t have a midair if they briefed it for 2 hours!” - love it! Thank you Steve for another amazing opportunity to “hang out” with Paco. I’m ready for 3 hours of part 2,3,4…… 😁

[@10percenttrue]

Our pleasure, Jim!

[@robo3915]

I spend several days listening to these interviews, pausing and rewinding it, because there’s so much information in it. I can’t just have this on in the background! Paco not getting to fly in Desert Storm after all he did for the F-15s is practically a war crime!

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Robert. Yes, there is so much covered in these sorts of episodes that I sometimes have difficulty in recalling all the details afterwards and have to go back and listen to it again.

[@mikeschultz9188]

Wonderful. I had been eagerly waiting for this interview with Paco. Steve, I'm impressed with how you interview; it's not pressing or aggressive and I feel Paco and others feel comfortable to open up because of this approach. Well done.

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Mike. It's wonderful to hear such feedback. Glad you enjoyed the episode.

[@laMoort]

10 minutes in and i know this is gonna be an instant classic!

[@10percenttrue]

I hope it didn't disappoint.

[@laMoort]

@@10percenttrue oh hell no, it's a blast! ❤‍🔥

[@vaffangool9196]

*I'm thirty minutes in* and just realised this is three hours long (great!) but I have to be at work in twenty minutes (shit!)

[@rogerweber8194]

Great interview. I was an enlisted avionics tech on the lawn darts in the 422 and Falcon from 83-86. Lawn dart is always better than a big ol tennis court banging into each other on the ramp!

[@chrisbrand5728]

My gosh...Paco...I was stationed with him at TTR, 4477th TES. Great pilot, very easy to talk to. Great to see him again!

[@tlfflt1983]

Really enjoyed hearing about the 10 to 12 years before I started flying in TAC and USAFE. The post Vietnam rebuilding and learning years when the USAF had plenty of pilots and money to to establish LIFT, expand FWIC, and manage Red Flag into a risk controlled high value training environment. By the time of my first Red Flag in ‘87 things were more scripted but plenty challenging for a 750 hour new flight lead Captain. At least they still had a few strippers in the bar one night. By ‘97 the old bar top hangs on the wall and the crud table was in a sound proof booth. Paco gives a great first person account of how the Air Force leadership challenges industry and industry responds with systems and technology that challenges the aircrew to reinvent tactics and leadership models.

[@10percenttrue]

Cheers, Pyro. Sounds like the cultural changes happened in quie a short period.

[@jcheck6]

My first Red Flag was in '76, one big free for all. Flew a 10 ship initial with various fighters, ie F-4's, -105's, -106's, RF-4's etc. Air boss said it looked great, "knock it off". Changed dramatically through out the later years. Learned to play Crud at Maple Flag in '79.

[@Cat10980]

Incredible interview with Paco. I've listened to this about three times now and I still don't think I've taken away everything that's possible. It's a treasure trove of remarkable stories ranging from the grave to truly hilarious. It's easy to see why Paco was a great leader, his natural charisma is obvious throughout. Great interview and sincere thanks to both Paco and you, Steve! Yeah, yeah; but you were dead! :-D

[@MrTonyharrell]

I’m just getting started but this is bringing back a ton of memories. I was at Eglin in the 33rd between ‘78-81, ammo. I can say the only air to ground munitions we had were 25lb practice bombs, it was air to air at the 33rd first in the F4 then the F15.

[@sashD7609]

Awesome interview. These stories really fill out the details of life as a USAF fighter pilot in the 70s through to the 90s. Appreciate all the detail that goes into these interviews and they certainly delve into these topics much deeper than other aviation podcasts and interviews.

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks for listening and commenting, Sasha.

[@maddthomas]

I love your channel, this is one of my favorite interviews you have done. With all the friends you made with all the men and women like Paco is there anyway you could get some of the veterans of the 8TFW on? The men who flew with Gen. Robin Olds? I have read several books about him and as many interviews as I can find, something they all have in common is "did Robin get a 5th Mig?" I believe he did, because of the non committal answers he has given. I believe this aviation corner of KZbin would start foaming at the mouth to hear the stories from those men, about Gen. Olds and the 8TFW at Udorn, the stories that have never been published. I think Gen. Steve Richie is included in that group of men.

[@waynegriswold8953]

this is a fantastic interview! Paco is one hell of a guy!

[@terrancemccaffrey4509]

Thanks for bringing Paco back! Great stories and so much fun to listen too. My favorite one on this episode was the “Red Baron” story…too funny. Looking forward to part 2!

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Marco. Hope the book sales are going well.

[@-theflea-4561]

Great interview. Hearing Paco talk about what he has done and just what it takes to build up a squadron to proficiency, shows why the Russians are having a hard time. You can’t just give the kids a bunch of shiny toys and expect them to get the job done. It requires years of dedication, training and money to make it look easy.

[@jcheck6]

Paco nailed it in his discussion of flying in the late '70's. It was one restriction after another. One General (Hartinger) made all the squadrons hang toy nerf planes from the ceiling around the duty desk to help us practice "See & Avoid." It was stupid shit crap like that, that made me exit flying Phantoms in the AF for the airlines. We did have one plane flying against the Agressors that lost its wing tip. Pilot was killed but the WSO made it out.

[@williambayer5387]

Excellent interview and a for sure Paco conversation. Known Paco for many years; weapons school and Red Eagles where I knew first hand of his skills--lots of warriors at Nellis during this time. Enjoyed a lot of the "know the man" stuff too and I flash to the time Beeper and Paco were met at their jets at Nellis and the two different approaches to a hair cut. Remember also the first meeting with the Road Warriors. Looking forward to the next part!

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Billy. You going to be at the reunion in November? I want to hear the haircut story!

[@williambayer5387]

@@10percenttrue Intending to be there.

[@lrw3984]

great interview - would love to hear more about missile tactics.

[@10percenttrue]

Might try and get Paco to discuss AIM-7 stuff at some point in the future. Thanks for the suggestion.

[@pjotrtje0NL]

Thanks Paco for the explanation at roughly 1:52:35 , and now I know why the 32nd FS traded in their F-15Cs for MSIP F-15As! We as spotters were kinda miffed that ‘our boys’ had to fly with these old airplanes, but we were wrong. (Of course we all knew that something must’ve been really better, and we knew the MSIP abbreviation, but what it entailed? No clue.)

[@frankgeisler2514]

Multi-Staged Improvement Program (MSIP for short)

[@MrJnolan73]

I watch your channel avidly, all the content is great, but this one is the best by far. Paco is a great character with great stories, parts of this interview made me laugh out loud, brilliant!

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, James!

[@jebb125]

great interview, informative, funny, best I have listened to in a while

[@10percenttrue]

Cheers, Jeb. You a Mohawk driver?

[@troyledbetter6597]

Superb interview! I hope we could have Paco back with Stories phlying the F4!

[@10percenttrue]

I asked, but he doesn't feel like he flew the F-4 for long enough to really deep dive on an episode with me...

[@Crunch104]

No way that SOB gonna beat me! :) Awesome interview. Thank you

[@julianbrattoni]

Thanks for this interview, gents.

[@10percenttrue]

You’re welcome!

[@parrotheadlasvegas]

If anyone here knows about the Roadrunners Internationale and or the Lexicans, you’ll probably understand this more than most. If you don’t know but you’re interested & want to know more, I might be able to help. I know both and this is amazing. Thanks to all who made this interview happen!!!

[@10percenttrue]

Not familiar with the Lexicans. Tell us more!

[@FatBikeRacer]

Great channel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Aircrewinterview]

Great interview Steve!

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Mike. Hope all is well with you.

[@sichere]

Paco Geisler for President

[@mjj3298]

Amazing content :)

[@jimmycummings8164]

Fascinating content. Love it keep it up.

[@10percenttrue]

Will do!

[@uhhello173]

Great stuff as always

[@10percenttrue]

Cheers, Adam

[@garethalley9805]

Brilliant episode.

[@dennissmith8947]

A real legend.

[@texasforever7887]

Is this man Irish because he stole all their luck. He definitely lived a charmed life and worked hard.

[@joekreider8050]

Watching for the third time . Think this one is tops. Paco should write a book!

[@stuartb9194]

It took me a while to clear 3hrs to watch this, but best 3hrs I've spent for a while and I can't even spell 'scyoffant'. Paco is a phenom, and you give him just enough juice for him to reveal his brilliant story. Make the godam film already!

[@10percenttrue]

Thanks, Stuart. I know that 3 hours is probably not a format that is going to get me a tonne of subs, but I am past caring about that and now just want to focus on letting guests share their stories. Appreciate you staying with us to the end!

[@neilhenderson9081]

The legend! Love it!

[@10percenttrue]

What a guy. Hope you guys are doing well. You coming to the reunion?

[@neilhenderson9081]

@@10percenttrue We plan to!

[@garethroberts9223]

Great content - Only just found you - Starbaby - Who knew!

[@fredrickmartinez7047]

I truly enjoy this program, so many exciting and new episodes. Keep up the good work.

[@jordanelder2627]

Great content for aviation nuts. Thank you

[@glennstubbs8232]

I was 33rd TFW 1970-1973. Good times.

[@markk364]

I was on that ship during vietnam!

[@philhealey2520]

Awesome

[@paulloveless4122]

An f15 shot a satellite out of the sky I believe in the late 90s. Is it possible to do a video on this?

[@TomYoureDoingItWrong]

We sent a weapons crew down to Edwards from Nellis to load a missile during the 'Star Wars' era during the Reagan Administration. This would have been the summer of 82 or 83 if memory serves. I was in the F-15 FWS at Nellis at the time. My cousin, Dr. Bob the Rocket Scientist, was a graduate student at Purdue at the time, studying rocket science. He spent his summers at Edwards interning for the Air Force. It wasn't until several years later that it occurred to me what he was working on was that program. I asked him about it, and he told me that cousin or not, he could tell me but then he would have to kill me. Dr. Bob is now the Director of the Propulsion Research Center at the University of Alabama at Huntsville, where he teaches rocket science.

[@paulloveless4122]

@@TomYoureDoingItWrong That's very cool Tom! After reading this - does that mean the satellite shoot down that I am remembering took place in the 80's? Or was what you described perhaps a precursor to shooting down the satellite? Thanks!

[@TomYoureDoingItWrong]

@@paulloveless4122 I suspect the test program went on for many years, and probably still is. Whether we were actually bringing down satellites when I was in I don't know. I am guessing any missile would have been a monster. It would have had to fit between the nose landing gear aft door and the JFS exhaust, without impeding air flow into the JFS inlets. I have to wonder at what altitude it would have launched in order to reach escape velocity and the target's orbit altitude. Paco talked about SR-71 intercepts, which we did while I was at the FWS. The aircrews never said how high they got. Let's just say that the nose cones on the engines leaked oil after those flights, and the airplanes would be ice cold, even in the heat of a Vegas summer. I am guessing 60,000 feet-plus, and that was still way beneath the SR-71. Air gets pretty thin at those altitudes, and maintaining airspeed for sufficient air inlet pressure was a limiting factor.

[@paulloveless4122]

@@TomYoureDoingItWrong very interesting response sir!

[@LRRPFco52]

I still remember the day. It was out of Edwards AFB in 1985 fired from one of the CTF's F-15As. They started captive carry with the missile when we got back from West Germany in late '82 at ED. That was a big freaking deal. It took National Command sign-off to intercept a real satellite.

[@Dan-qp1el]

American hero.

[@mikaelbiilmann6826]

Hmmm, maybe 10 losses in 2 decades during training. But what if their abilities are lacking when they¨re needed 10-20 years down the road? They could risk losing 20-30 in a war because their leadership had put an end to dissimilar training?

[@SteelbeastsCavalry]

an AF LTC told me that the best fighter pilot is a smart-jock.

[@kentgregory3299]

I can’t not watch this interview. I know Paco didn’t get to go to Desert Storm. I am afraid to listen because how angry I will feel on the subject.

[@flightsimstuff5417]

👍👍👍

[@phamanh30926]

The man is cool

[@CrazyRussianPilot]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@georgiogorge]

comment supreme

[@10percenttrue]

The man *gets it*! 🙏🏻

[@SavageHenry0311]

Al. Gore. Rhythm.

[@10percenttrue]

I don't know what this means, but thank you (I think)!

[@SavageHenry0311]

@@10percenttrue Hahahaha! Sound it out: "algorithm". This podcast needs to be bigger than Rogan! Thank you for all your work - it's opened my eyes to a world I was adjacent to for years (I was a grunt in the USMC) and always been curious about. I used to look at aircraft flying over a battlefield or big training exercise and wonder what the pilots were like, what their day-to-day lives were like, what their actual jobs entailed. This podcast is, collectively, one of the best collections of skilled interviewing of interesting people that exists.

[@0MoTheG]

What an odd story. How could someone with a competitive mind set but no background in engineering or aviation beat the competition?

[@10percenttrue]

He wasn’t beating anyone in BFM until he got to an F-4 squadron that helped him learn his trade. By the time he was on the Aggressors, his natural talent and fighter experience had combined to the point that he was getting noticed. Regarding his natural talent and ability to graduate top of his UPT and FWIC classes, it’s rare but not unheard of for guys without engineering or aerospace backgrounds to do this. In fact, people with civilian flying experience don’t tend to have much advantage at UPT by the time they get to the advanced phases. Nothing odd about it, IMO.