Kill Team: Balance Dataslate Winners and Losers

Turning Point Tactics Warhammer 40000 Kill Team Podcast!
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[@ffish6661]

Love the videos, but I loved the convinience of spotify podcasts even more. Is there any way you could continue posting on spotify ?

[@turningpointtactics6177]

On it 🙏

[@peppermintshore]

I would have liked to have seen, rather than no jump tests in the core rules, that they updated the match play rules to say no jump tests. As the test seems very narrative.

[@turningpointtactics6177]

That’s a smart change! I agree, although I guess if you’re playing narrative you can just say you will use jump tests

[@peppermintshore]

@@turningpointtactics6177 true but if its not in the rules then both playera have to agree. If its in the rules both players have to agree to remove it.

[@ObsceneSuperMatt]

Breacha Boy could have used a +1 attack along with Bruiser, 3 attacks on a melee specialist feels bad.

[@nraketh]

Yeah. Kinda need to give him a sledgehammer now.

[@turningpointtactics6177]

I’d love to see some changes to the lesser used models. Internal balance is important

[@eftyextenebra1837]

Breacha Boy specifically is why I hate the choppa equipment nerf. I don't want to make the shooty orks into combat specialists, I want to be able to charge the Breach Boy through a wall and stomp some git. As it is, he's pigeon holed into delivering demo charges and I hate it. Just like I hate the Gnarlscar nerf. The whole point of that ability is using a grenade. Nobody gives a shit about the autopistol, even guardsmen will laugh at it. The other nerfs are fine. Heck, I'd drop the beastmen to 9 models if I could have the Funscar back...

[@technologicalconductor6308]

I think a big thing for me personally is that, playing breachers primarily, they feel a bit off on non itd terrain. Having all your guns be 6 inch, while also needing so much EP to get even to a lasgun profile, just feels so strange to me. Maybe I’m not experienced enough to “get it”, but it really does feel like an EP tax to me. My idea would be to let them shoot while engaged, but only into the guy in front of them, with any of their 6inch profiles, at -1 to hit. Feel free to call it dumb, but I just think it would give them such a unique identity, while also getting to lean into the whole “close quarters specialists” vibe

[@turningpointtactics6177]

Breacher’s key weakness is their lack of long range shooting. I did enjoy using the las volley in certain matchups but I think the best way to play them is to move up TP1 and set up close range options

[@biobreaker5009]

Great video, but please clear this for me because I am still confused. Does the Vet Guard Demoman's mine need to see the whole base? Yes or no, the wording used is quite convoluted.

[@turningpointtactics6177]

The way I read it the mine just needs to see a bit of a base not the whole base

[@voice9893]

Would be really cool If the other killzones would be also available seperate and in Stock Love Kill Team 😘

[@turningpointtactics6177]

Yeah frustrating when they take stuff out of main production, guess it’s a warehouse / supply issue

[@allipalli90]

Why don't you post these on Spotify?

[@woelfingskund]

Would be awesome

[@turningpointtactics6177]

I’m going to download all the episodes then upload them, the primary reason is time, I forget and it takes time, and for full transparency a secondary reason is I’m not monetised on spotify, so doing so effectively costs me money (or reduces potential income) I’ll think I’ll do a Patreon poll and see what they prefer, ultimately I try to support them the most

[@allipalli90]

@@turningpointtactics6177 I usually don't listen to podcasts on KZbin.. But your content is that good, I keep coming back! Keep it up brother 💪

[@turningpointtactics6177]

@@allipalli90 thanks 🙏 means a lot!

[@neon_necromunda]

Personally dissagree with the jump teat being scrapped. Totally removes the fun of risk. Making it too easy. Whats the point if having gaps in terrain!?

[@turningpointtactics6177]

I guess this is where GW are looking to focus the balance dataslate on the competitive scene. I had a few good conversations about this at the weekend. If the jump tests gave you an alternative route that was shorter but came with risk, but all the objectives where still reachable with normal models then it’d make sense. However, often on the maps, the only way to score primary is via a jump test you can’t control, and the punishment for failing that test can be no primary this turn, potentially the following turn & losing a model to being exposed. From a competitive point of view having to make multiple of these rolls across multiple games can lead to some whacky things and from a purely competitive view doesn’t lead to a good competitive environment. From a fun perspective and particularly narrative I understand the desire to have the jump tests.

[@michaelanderson6726]

I know that harlequins have always rubbed people who dont use them the wrong way so they are fine with this change... but this HUGE nerf to there movement completely guts this team. There crazy movement is what made them good. Able to get double kills and/or non recipricle charges which they absolutely had to do to be able to win. Now they are stuck with 7 models who have 6 inch shooting or less with no real advantage movement wise to make that a threat. Complete overreaction to clowns brokenness on beta decima. Thematically pretty stupid as well, i can jump over a space marine at no cost but a pc of metal barricade slows me down? Very dumb

[@nraketh]

I think they’ll get the free traverse back in a later update. Seems like an oversight to me rather than intentional.

[@turningpointtactics6177]

I like that your opponents barricades can now have an effect on the game, but I agree that it doesn’t seem very thematic I guess we’ll see what happens to win rates and then i’m sure more changes will come

[@fromization1]

Some timestamps would have been nice :)

[@turningpointtactics6177]

I’ll try and get some for future 🙏

[@lyrisshade]

Void dancers were already not winning tournaments. They’re unplayable competitively now. The nerf should have been 2” to climb and let them drop and traverse for free. Elites will eat them up and now they wont be able to do enough double kills against hordes.

[@turningpointtactics6177]

It’ll definitely be interesting to see how it plays out, and if you’re right and their win rate drops then I’m sure changes will come either to buff a different part of the team or make the movement better again

[@lyrisshade]

@@turningpointtactics6177 I have a feeling their win rates won’t drop enough to get a buff unless they look at competitive tournament win rate only. It’s like vet guard, they were busted competitively for a long time but their win rate didn’t reflect it. I think void dancers will be the same only opposite as casually they’ll perform just fine. Overall this was the only change I didn’t fully agree with so great balance changes overall!

[@turningpointtactics6177]

@@lyrisshade I think you might be right! Guess we’ll see

[@Pvt.Rooster]

😂 "Void dancers are unplayable"​ Lay off the Space dust. @lyrisshade

[@lyrisshade]

@@Pvt.Rooster specifically at high tables, like I said, very playable casual or small tournaments

[@nraketh]

The whole “hide slightly too far from a barricade” is such a stupid mechanic. There should be a barricade fight option like hatchway fight.

[@turningpointtactics6177]

I think particularly in ITD as you can fully block corridors. Although, if they do introduce that then melee teams would likely have to take some nerfs as they’d perform significantly better in tournaments

[@eftyextenebra1837]

This! Every time I've explained this to an opponent I've seen their enjoyment of the game drop completely.

[@tuno9819]

I can't see how you guys see the nerfs to the chaos cult good, it will kill the faction that was already balanced, look at the stats, podiums and events wins with the nerfs they got they were hard to play already now... kinda imposible you start with 2 cultist less t1 because you need to take 2 points so they will die and probably 1 will also die because they don't all fit in the deploy now 1 less because of the balance and 2 more will become torments so you end up with 5 less just like that and the lose of the ignoring modifiers to a mele unit that was the only true damage dealer when usually they evolve injured hitting on +5 is to bad . Seriously guys have you played chaos cults after the nerfs?

[@turningpointtactics6177]

I’ll try and get a game in with the new nerfs, I guess my opinion on the team might be somewhat skewed by seeing them be played by some of the best players in the world at World Championships

[@tuno9819]

yeah on worlds that KT was straigth up broken but with the nerfs they were balanced and lot weaker but thats just my opinion I guess. I would love to see a battle report on the chanel tho. cheers mate!@@turningpointtactics6177

[@TheLeejoohong2]

I only played void dancer 5 time. and got huge nerf..

[@turningpointtactics6177]

Oooft, always annoying when you switch to a team and they take a hit, will be interested to see how they perform post nerfs

[@Klierowski]

As a vet player who is just so tired on turnaments with 14 bodies to play.... my team was nerfed to the ground and ashes, Rest in peace Krieg, fuck GW for this undeserved spotter nerf.

[@lyrisshade]

Really? Spotter needed this so long ago. Maybe guard will need a buff elsewhere but the spotter and mine were beyond oppressive

[@michaelanderson6726]

Dude really? Only spotter in game that can remove people from heavy cover AND chain activate another model. I hate when people complain about losing something that is broken and not fair or fun to play against. Snoofy cadoofy demo guy is STILL the only mine guy who gets to plant his mine and do a free dash after.... fricken space marine doesnt even do that but random guardsman does? Come on bro

[@nraketh]

Yeah I think the spotter action should be only 1 apl now, or increase the range on his double tap to six inches. It’s still good, just not great anymore and much harder to use.

[@Klierowski]

Show me vet guardsman winning any tournament lately :) pre-nerf i mean, of course. Love when people ignore the fact that beside good Sniper and decent melta/plasma guardsman don't have A SHIT! we got 7 wounds models, shitty meele, shitty range, you say numbers? Tau can field 12 operatives, with amazing shooting and same shitt meele. Overall, why would anyone choose vet guardsman over tau with 13wound operative?

[@michaelanderson6726]

​@Klierowski nobody is saying they shouldnt get some other buff somewhere to compensate... hell maybe they get there support assets on top of the 4 guys... but to leave them with the most OP spotter and demo in the game just doesnt make mechanical or thematic sense. Vet guard is a very difficult team to pilot at max potential but when they were at there pre nerf level they were super oppressive with these 2 models allowing for no counterplay