Kingdom Death: Monster - Shut Up & Sit Down Review

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[@doctoriampagliacci7945]

You know how people constantly die in this game and you have to make up new names? (You can only use survival abilities after you've named a character. That's a rule.) One of our players solved this problem by constantly inventing new names based on the old one. Edmure. Edmoor. Eddmure. Etmure. Ettmure. It was starting to drive us crazy, which was funny to him, so he continued. Then we fought the phoenix. It saw him. It unnamed him. He lost his name. Nobody could remember his name. He could no longer use survival abilities. And he could never again go by the same name, or he would cease to exist. The game literally made him break his naming scheme, lol. His new name was Edless, and his next character is called Ariah.

[@eriksjogren800]

This story feels so Kingdom Death.

[@gasmonkey1000]

Awww and your buddy had such a good scheme going

[@Bubelmanen]

This is really cool that the game can do that. I need to buy this game Dx

[@jackjohn810]

So is going Super Saiyan a part of the game or was that an unrelated event for the guy Quinns was playing with?

[@graceggale]

Jack Fleming I know you're joking, but gouung Super Saiyen is actually now part of the game...

[@sub7se7en]

That's clearly his base form, you idiot.

[@sirdrakey]

@@owlfrog same!

[@JonSteitzer]

This is the first SU&SD video I ever saw, and it remains one of the best. I love Paul's presence in his reviews, and the general approach to thinking about board games that he encapsulates.

[@mchamberlain7408]

I miss him

[@Heimal]

I keep coming back and watching this because it's such a wonderful piece of content. Love you Paul.

[@eriksjogren800]

Me too. Just did it again.

[@Enterred]

I've been following this game for years, and your review is going to make me finally pull the trigger. Great, now I can have another board game nobody will ever play sitting in a closet.

[@Seldonlair]

Kiel Combs You can play solo. 1-4(really up to 6 but that's the secret unlocked hard mode). Indeed, solo play is encouraged by the community before doing co-op so that you don't have the "frustration" of forgetting the rules. One person generally should know the rules, everyone else just goes by his rulings. Like a dungeon master. Because this is just an RPG in a box.

[@zanntos83]

Ahhhhh, but KD is wonderfully solo playable :) (Own it, love it, mostly play with others but can and have played solo and it's a lot of fun that way too)

[@DizzySpark]

that's your opinion.

[@tyrongkojy]

For me, that's this and Risk. Only ever played one game, with my grandmother, and we played for five minutes because setting Risk up took so long and we had to go. WANT to play, but noone to play with.

[@burghman8000]

Too bad youre not in my city. I'd love to play everyone or these games they review

[@PeterRabel]

A phoenix looked at my character and their future children died.

[@rajohnbutler7131]

Peter Rabel WTF!!!!! That is crazy. What a game!

[@Eidenhoek]

the phoenix's children, or yours?

[@SF.-_]

@@Eidenhoek The survivor's children. The phoenix time travels to the time of his/hers future children and murders them.

[@HungryHunter]

@@SF.-_ plottwist: you become infertile sooner then you had a chance to get childrens.

[@jerrymcbride5589]

@@HungryHunter double plot twist you had children you didn't know about

[@lordof1000mimes]

My favorite part of this review was Paul's recognition that people are just going to hear what they want to hear about the game.

[@mackstertube]

Gregory Auld my favorite part is "Never in the history of board games did punching the balls off a lion produce so much paperwork"

[@RoiGamez]

That's not right... I was really pumped the whole day about the game and wanted to watch an honest review. This review pretty much blew off all of my excitement about the game

[@JD-wf2hu]

I think the negativeity is more because of the oppertunity cost. You could play KDM or you could play about 50 other games and that's hard thing to justify. I get that if you think of KDM as an RPG with an automated DM the oppertunity cost is less concerning but it's being reviewed in the context of being a board game with the review audience assumed to be boardgamers. It's also pretty clear that Paul doesn't like the theme at all and there's no way that isn't impacting his review. (if it matters I own KDM and have finished a solo run).

[@Strephen]

@@MagicManAleister no shit most people don't own it. when a base game is 600 to 900 fucking dollars, nobody is ever going to own it again

[@fabiovenetz6779]

@@JD-wf2hu That's something I don't understand about this boardgame community that I just stumbled into a few weeks ago. After you played a certain number of games it seems that you're focus is more on how many games you have time to play, rather than about having a particular game experience. How is that an argument that you could play 50 other games in that time if none of those games give me the world experience that KDM gives me?

[@tablesaltgames]

KDM is a great game, when your friend owns it.

[@niallreid7664]

Same principle as legacy board games then lol.

[@Carighan]

No, not even then. It's just a bad game, period.

[@Minecraftlover73]

@@Carighan kickstarter and his sales in general says otherwise.

[@kentonius2]

it's like, I'm not quite that guy. I don't want to live in kingdom death, but I wouldn't mind being a visitor. And I'd like to be friends with the guy that loves Kingdom death, because that guy is usually rather interesting.

[@alllies5271]

@@Minecraftlover73 So monopoly is a better board game than kingdom death? Sales say yes...

[@FuroKazuya]

I rarely comment on KZbin, but: This is one of the shortest reviews of KD:M I've seen, and still the best by far.

[@MarinaDiamandis4Ever]

There's longer😟

[@kevinschultz6091]

Yeah, it sounds like a complex blend of tabletop RPG wedded to a full-fledged miniatures game, combined with the first few millennium of Civilization, In Darkest Dungeon.

[@BrutalBarracuda]

Looks far to overwhelming, I'd absolutely love to play it with 3 people who know the rules perfect, but to buy this, learn it, then teach it to 3 other people? No way.

[@keyaro123]

BrutalBarracuda it actually walks you through learning as you play. It's a lot easier than it seems.

[@Power-Mad]

It's really interesting going back and hearing that initial ramble. Kickstarters are so core to a lot of games, you now routinely expect a second one if the game turns out good. They very often hit the common market now with very little exclusives in a lot of cases. Kinda just funny looking back and remembering "Oh yeah, they kinda started out as a weird niche with a promise you'd only get the game from here".

[@rong6371]

Great finishing line. Never before...did punching the balls off a lion, produce so much paper work.

[@falconJB]

For some people that is a huge selling point.

[@CarlCreed76]

@@Gervasn Yeah I'm not too sure what they were going for with that one either.

[@CJWproductions]

"Fuzzy Groin: you hit the monster right in the ding dong." I can't take any of it seriously now.

[@dilkrom]

This had me dying too. It's really hard to get a solid grip on the space of mind the creator must have been in when writing cards...

[@DanceLikeANitwit]

The same embarrassingly juvenile space that the artist is in, it seems. BOOBIES ARE BRILLIANT BUT VAGINAS ARE EW ICKY MONSTERS, AND BIG WILLIES AND DING DONGS ARE SUPER ICKY.

[@MerlinsJester]

DanceLikeANitwit you're dirt poor aren't you

[@LadyArtemis2012]

The game does occasionally have a tone problem. That's the most offensive example I can think of, though. Most of the rest of the game manages to stay within that survival-horror kind of feel you might get in Bloodbourne or Dark Souls. I think that the White Lion fight was originally developed as a proof of concept in order to pitch the game at conventions and gauge whether or not it would have an audience. This kind of results in the prologue having a different mood then the rest of the game.

[@billvolk4236]

Good thing we have this skilled artisan at our settlement who can craft FECAL SALVE

[@timmowarner]

I don't agree with the statements from about 22:00 to 25:00 , but the rest of this was pretty much spot on. (Not counting the conclusion, but that's subjective to everyone.) One thing I would like to point out in the new Kickstarter is the expansion which will let you skip the early phases of the game and jump right in to a settlement that's pretty far along. Beginners should definitely fight the White Lion a few times to learn the flow of things and how to craft and guide the settlement. Once you're a pro, it's pretty safe to skip all that because you know what you're doing and ready to jump right in to the harder stuff. And yeah, it is definitely my thing. If you're not looking forward to this game beating you up, sometimes unfairly, it's not the game for you.

[@lapisverderossi8618]

This ^ :)

[@ThePSaco]

Timmo Warner which expansion would that be?

[@timmowarner]

It's called "The First Hero" expansion. It's not out yet, but you can find info on it on the Kingdom Death Monster 1.5 kickstarter.

[@CarlCreed76]

@Thevoiceof Weedin I saw it at least friend, enjoy the game! ;)

[@TheMaroonBunyip]

I can't believe you're friends with sonic the hedgehog.

[@snogurt]

So thrilled to have your take on this. Thanks for the work! Love the snow!

[@Xune2000]

Looks like this wanted to be a computer game.

[@MrLocoSuave]

Well I play it on Tabletop Simulator so...

[@stuckupcurlyguy]

this is 100% what I thought after I played it. Just play dark souls.

[@internisus]

I want that, too.

[@JustSumGuy]

Filthy normies crying for a video game.

[@kevinalford]

That is probably the most fair complaint about this game possible.

[@ka5141]

What ON EARTH is that guy's hair doing at 4:50?! Is that a requirement for playing?!

[@benanderson46]

Kevin Auld I think it might be a result of playing?

[@JayneCobb88]

not a requirement for playing. But going full blown super saiyan *is* a requirement for victory

[@davedogge2280]

No, he just arrived, coming straight from a Drazon Ball Z convention... s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5d/93/69/5d9369d9344d8b27b42ed8ae72ff2669.jpg

[@ethanphilpot7643]

The hair is the 4th player obviously

[@MaTRiXHDMI]

It's Future Trunks.

[@EllieMoonbeam]

Really good review, and I like all the footage of snow. That raccoon was so cute!

[@lopezmt]

My friend bought the game and I played it several times. But I soon got bored of it: too frustrating and so little pay off. When you "succeed" ie. survived, (only to die some unimaginable death later...) it felt more like complete luck and random chance, than something I did. And I got the same feeling when my character died. I'd invested time and mental energy into seeing my character somehow survive several encounters and I would be happy, only to have one bad die roll or encounter snuff him out in the blink of an eye. For those who love that kind of emotional payoff, they will love the game: for me - not my cup of tea. For the same frustration, I'd rather play golf... At least the scenery is nicer...

[@tedstyle3798]

Would rather play golf? OK cya

[@CruelJudgement1]

@@tedstyle3798 hahaha epic

[@manaman9625]

Lol golf is a lot of fun too

[@jonknight4616]

Great in depth review! Not a game I have the money for, nor one I'd have the time to invest in... but great to finally get a glimpse of how it plays and what it does. I feel like my curiosity is finally sated!

[@verybrutal8994]

Great review! Thanks for making detailed, subjective opinion instead of worshiping this title as a matter of principle. You guys are the best board game reviewers because they comes from playing and testing, not from agreements with board game companies and from sponsoring.

[@lionelsy7449]

Amazing review Paul! One note is that the random event deck exists because of encounters like the lonely tree where you shuffle another card in the hunt deck I believe. This game is definitely polarizing and I for one am on the side that wants to live in said blackest of boxes.

[@MajorHorrigan]

the "could this box be more black" comment made me laugh so hard -.-

[@Rautia]

And you forgot to mention the add-ons that can vary the campaign quite a bit, you can replace many of the huntable monsters with others, get new events and even change the basic structure of the campaign through some of the bigger expansions (like immortal heroes etc.).

[@SirAyme]

That guy's hair is wicked sick dude. EDIT: That's not meant in a mean way btw. I think it's quite impressive.

[@madifinley7018]

I think he stuck his finger in an electrical outlet.

[@SirAyme]

Eric Finley I wake up like that after a good shower before bed. Takes a lot of gel to fix it flat.

[@jacktorrance3522]

He's doing some sort of Dragonball Z cosplay surely?

[@SirAyme]

And he's pulling it off pretty well too!

[@jeremyoverton7047]

Quality Barnet

[@CronyxRavage]

lol that guy with "look at me" Goku hair XD

[@Duraxy]

The Random Event Combinations in Kingdom Death Monsters sound like Dwarf Fortress

[@chausser]

Glad to see a review from SuSD! I like you guys a lot and was curious to see what you thought about the game. I wrote up some reactions while watching your video. Sorry it's quite long! Your point about not playing with 4 players is a good one and one shared by most of the community, from what I've seen. Player elimination is a core part of this game an An important thing to note about the version you're reviewing right now is that it includes expansion monsters (just in case folks are thinking all the content there is from the core game). Folks can go to board game geek to find lists of what's in the core game. Early game repetition is definitely a bit of a pain. There's a new expansion being introduced that lets you start developed at about the halfway point of the game. That's not an experience you'll get out of the core game, though. I've found the folks who tend to be most enthusiastic about the game are also fans of the roguelike video game genre, which can also involve large amounts of repetition while trying to achieve mastery, and I can imagine folks who don't like the roguelike genre are going to be more likely to dislike this particular board game. As to the sex: your response is exactly why I like this game's aesthetic. Kingdom Death juxtaposes the sleazy and the obscene/grotesque in a way that cannot be ignored. It's repulsive, and I'm not sure if that repulsiveness is the intent of the creator, but that repulsiveness reveals things about the way Western culture objectifies the human body (and especially the bodies of women), and, to me, what it reveals is fascinating and in keeping with the game's body horror motif. Does this justify it? I don't know if you can ever justify reductive objectification. I do think it communicates something worth thinking about, though. In addition, while this doesn't excuse some of the stylistic choices, there are actually some surprisingly progressive moments of representation in the game. Most of the plastic figures for men and women are equally represented, for instance, outside a few unfortunate cleavage windows, and there are quite a few instances of naked men in the book to go along with the naked women. There's a clear disparity in the intent of their representation, with the men never really being represented in a titilating way, but the new Kickstarter has taken some small steps to even things up again by producing "male pinups" that are explicitly designed to represent men the way that the game already represents women. If you're strongly opposed to sexualizing and objectifying human bodies, this doesn't solve the issue of representation, but there's an entrenched tendency in the miniatures industry to sell cheesecake miniature representations of women, and I can't think of any other company in the market that has acknowledged that representation and made a concrete effort to make up for the disparity in some way. If you compare the representation of women in games like Conan the Barbarian and Super Dungeon Explore, for instance, those games seem to exclusively represent women as objects to be observed and men as subjects acting in the world. I think Kingdom Death, in its bizarre, awkward way, is trying to represent men and women in both ways, and to do so in a way that does not masquerade as polite or acceptable. In the game itself, the women are equal to the men in every way outside of their biological ability to produce children, and they're as often depicted in the art defeating monsters as the men. Kingdom Death's explicit rules enabling same sex partnership is also something I appreciate. There's also inclusion of mechanics for transgender characters in certain of the expanded materials for the game, though those materials are bogged down by the company's tendency to rely on infantile humor. It's fun, to me, to see a game that's willing to include options for people to play characters who are like they are regardless of who they happen to be, and to have an equal (and equally bleak) chance in the world regardless of their sexual orientation and how they choose to identify. I really like your prog rock metaphor. You have me wondering, now, if my love for King Crimson is in some way related to my fascination with Kingdom Death.

[@chausser]

Just noticed I forgot to finish the second paragraph of the bajillion page essay I ended up writing. I was going to say that player elimination is a core part of the game and it can really hurt the fun of the game if someone gets eliminated early. I hear a lot of people recommending two players for the game or even solo play for that reason. Three is workable, but if you have four players you should run the five or six character variant and you should never really play with more than four players.

[@Udonotknowmeatall]

Doubtful. I know from personal experience that you can love King Crimson and still hate Kingdom Death. Objectively, it's just a badly designed game with well-sculpted minis (of dubious aesthetics). Imho, the only reason this isn't more widely recognized is the high cost of admittance. No one likes to admit they just wasted a pile of money, after all. I'm really glad the theme just doesn't appeal to me (and I happen to hate having to assemble minis).

[@luiscarlosqg]

Thank you for your complete review, it is even better than the video. I didn't know this game existed before watching the video and know I am into it. Do you recommend it for the solo campaign? Can you recommend other games with this theme, please?

[@Tossphate]

Probably the best closing remark of any KZbin video

[@sail8614]

I came back to rewatch this with the arrival of thr Gambler's Chest. I wonder how can they create such masterpiece reviews. You guys are insanely good, this video is really a great content

[@jonathana6298]

One thing about tokens/cards/character sheets: Permanent information is on your character sheet, random information is drawn from cards, and tokens are temporary and are all wiped away after a showdown. There are also the square gear cards, but that's intuitive enough. They're items. Information is in a lot of places, but it makes sense once you get into it.

[@markchapman4580]

that moment when you realise all the Spinal Tap references are a call-forward to the prog rock analogy at the end of the review

[@anthonyaddario4653]

I am definitely one of those people who absolutely love this game. I’ve played it for hours at a time and only stopped cuz the other people playing with me got tired.

[@tommasopizzinato1734]

if you have the game would you like to play a game from distance? Or can you by any chance send me some photos or pdf of the rulebook? because I can't find it anywhere and I really wish to try it out even if just on tabletop simulator.

[@anthonyaddario4653]

@@tommasopizzinato1734 you can download an entire digital game on steam,

[@tommasopizzinato1734]

@@anthonyaddario4653 you mean the one on tabletop right? I already saw them but the rules are all blurry and I don't know what to do after the prologue...

[@OmegaViper]

"You dont really win, you just do a little better each time"- Cleveland Brown

[@burghman8000]

Lol

[@jbrecken]

Thanks for this. I was on the fence and this video pushed me off. (I won't say which side I landed on)

[@joenothin]

This actually sounds amazing. I wish I had the time and money for it. I understand the point about playing it is time lost not playing other games, but that's honestly the same opportunity cost that comes with every game, as well as every movie, book and play you consume. The question is what you get back from it.

[@Swordmaster7th]

You get what you pay for. It is a very good game, price is justified, but it is expensive.

[@Sonnenbringer]

And you'll get stories and experiences you never forget!

[@madifinley7018]

Great review. Very well done. It's also a beautiful video for all the snow and outdoor filming. I could watch this again just for the snow and animals. Lol.

[@davedogge2280]

I dropped a $700 bollock on v1.5 Kickstarter. It's just a game right up my street. Did I just see a "Lion Testes" card ?

[@darthduncan4459]

HA HA HA!!!

[@LadyArtemis2012]

And once you have the balls of the lion, you can juice them into a potent steroid that will, for a time, drive you into a berserk rage.

[@OmegaViper]

As for the Hunt Cards, because you can gain special things that you mix into the deck to randomly appear in some campaigns.

[@pedroortiz4267]

This is a good review, and a fair one i think at that, i differ for the conclusions as i do think that KDM is the bohemian rapsody of boardgames... the BIG DOWNSIDE for this boardgame is that requires you to find 3 other people willing to invest the time for it... and with the dark theme (i dont even like it) and the amount of time neded to play it is a hard mission. I have found playing by myself, with 1 or even 2 other people that the amount of paperwork drowns the game experience, especially if they are not investing the time, reading the rules or paying attention to the game (you play catan and TtoR with these kind of people), but the campaing i got to play with 3 gamers its by far the BEST boardgame experience in my life to this point, and im just hoping to give it another try in the close future. On other topics the new KS is adding a way to enter a campaign in an advanced lantern year, theres also rules for skipping the prologue. Mi conjclusio Mi conclusion: This is a GREAT game but you need the right people for it, same can be said about other GREAT grand games, TI3, Dune, D&D... you need the right people, or it will be a miserable experience ;)

[@pedroortiz4267]

Yes, and it is great as a solo game... by now I have given more hours to this than to my mage knight copy, and that's a statement, my point being that doing 4 survivors strategy coordination and paperwork can be exhausting, its way more fun with other people.

[@CocaJen]

Best setup is 2 (might be 3, in case you find a person who's not obsessed in fighting, but is "teamplayer"), and you should know that if you've invested. And it's totally enough force to handle all the bookkeeping. Otherwise, your comment is totally describes the game - "you should have the right 1-2 guys to play it with you".

[@Fopenplop]

My friend has it and we tried playing just him and me but it felt like we were spending 2 hours flipping through the rulebook madly to figure out what we were supposed to do to not lose a fight. I'd definitely like to try it again with more people and on a bigger table.

[@Mike-my7uf]

It's a game that's also for sale in mass production now. I'm saying this as of April 2019. I'm pretty sure it was in mass production way before this date. Just back ordered a lot. Now I got mine delivered in about 2 weeks.

[@mikeglasswell-gameplay]

the miniatures and design aesthetic are beautiful.. seems a bit over complicated though. great review

[@lucasterable]

0:26 common reaction to a post-2000 dungeon crawler. Some are so overwhelmingly complex and drag so much, they had rather been made into video games instead of board games. KDM is clearly a great example of this.

[@MasonLopez]

Your kickstarter horse rant made me subscribe. Cheers.

[@ArrestedDeveloper]

"None more black" - SUSD. If that's not a box quote, I don't know what is.

[@benf1742]

ArrestedDeveloper Yeah, that quote goes to eleven.

[@ImaNecron]

It is a relic and I love it, I’m so glad I got a copy, in the updated version, even though I never really play it. Where’s the mention of the ridiculous amount of miniatures, and how this game takes the concept of Dark Souls and adds wonderment. I’m looking forward to the Veteran system where you can just start a campaign in an already successful village.

[@GrimzimDorzwimor]

Kingdom Death has many issues, one of the biggest in my point of view is that while your survivors are nothing more than throw away characters there is too much work involved handling and bookkeeping them. Each one has a stat sheet and equipment cards but on top you also keep track of things like fighting arts where you can not keep the card and have to remember (?) or write down everything. And the list goes on and on. The worst thing is that while there are many unnecessary cards like shown in the review you have too few cards otherwise: why are there only 3 cards of each item, even for basic thing you will want to craft 4 times so that each survivor can have one. We started to photocopy these things to make things easier... And i completely agree that it is overblown and over designed: there are so many things in it that could have been left out without changing the experience at all. And keep the bookkeeping nightmare down... Where I do not agree is that it has excellent miniatures: I'm a miniature gamer so I own quite a lot of them and I'm not sure what the target audience for these miniatures is. For a board gamer the miniatures and especially the survivors are a nightmare as you have to assemble them all and they sometimes have dozens of fiddly bits for a single miniature. For a miniature gamer the same survivors are also not very good: they all look very samey due to the limited poses. The only exceptions are the monsters but unfortunately I think that the miniatures included in the base game are mostly boring: a lion with hands ... come on ... So as a boardgamer I would rather like to have pre-assembled miniatures while as a miniatures gamer I would want possibly fewer but individual miniatures. Like the ones now coming in the new kickstarter gamblers chest. My conclusion: the game could have profited immensely from streamlining it in almost every aspect. As it stands now it is a huge money and time sink and while we have played it over the last year I'm not sure if we should not have played something else ...

[@Glic2000]

Yeah, I mean, what was up with the card distribution? There are weapons that are very expensive to craft, and almost completely useless, but they have three copies in the deck, because you would want three of your survivors to have them? I just don't understand how stuff like that gets past playtesters. It's such a weirdly-designed game.

[@defiantj975]

It really seems like this game could have benefited with some help from a company like CMON. Rising sun has nice large miniatures and decently streamlined rules and yet has an affordable price tag. I think if this game could get down to the $100-150 area I'd be way more inclined to get it.

[@kinganzelak]

The bit with the branch was fucking hilarious.

[@rjkral]

Paul I am not sure if you are really aware of this, but your choices of words and phrases and your communication throughout this review is BRILLIANT. Just a stunning, epic and well thought out review that really borders on poetic at the wonderful conclusion. I say wonderful because it's an amazing conclusion and so well worded, a conclusion that cleverly arrives at the realization that we are all different and will respond differently. Not sure how to say it well, but trying to point out that you did a tremendous job here, thank you!

[@zerocool6980]

I counted 3 This is Spinal Tap references. Bravo.

[@DrMaquisapa]

Brilliant with the dribbling out of Spinal Tap references!

[@tingrouse]

I feel like the In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida comparison is a very apt one, as "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" means nothing, and just comes from how Doug Ingle slurred the words "in the garden of Eden" while he was off his face on cheap red wine, which is probably a pretty decent analogy for Kingdom Death as a game.

[@rav3style]

25:40 is the moment when I felt like I might love this. Also that's a ton of spinal tap references

[@pan_satyros]

And that is real Dark Souls/Bloodborne on board!

[@D3sToD3s]

there is a Dark Souls boardgame and a Bloodborn cardgame

[@pan_satyros]

D3sToD3s of course there are, but KDM seems to be much closer to original DS/BB feeling.

[@D3sToD3s]

If we talk Videogames, it is much more Darkest Dungeon and Monster Hunter for mechanics, but I'd agree. it feels like the part of the Intro of Darksouls one where they find the first Soul in the fire.

[@pan_satyros]

D3sToD3s good point whit DD and MH.

[@nomanchaudhry8727]

It's probably because KD is heavily influenced by the anime Berserk, and so were the Souls games

[@Gorillasecret]

For the hunt event cards, the made those to future proof the game for expansions. As you get more expansions you add extra hunt events to the deck.

[@defiantj975]

Missed the pledge for this. Now I can't find a copy for less than $350. It looks fun but anything over $150 seems like a real stretch.

[@JSturm01]

Thanks for the review SuSD! I backed the first KD:M kickstarter way back when, thinking it looked like an excellent RPGxBoard Game hybrid. In the time between backing and receiving the product though, my wife and I went through some traumatic events and found ourselves feeling a little sensitive. As a result, we ended up bouncing off KD:M like a brick wall. I opened the box, flipped through the manual, closed it, and put the whole thing up on ebay without playing a session. I wanted to share my experience to highlight to potential buyers that this is a horror game, emphasis on the horror. There is gore and dismemberment, a lot of disconcerting psycho-sexual elements (you can google the Forge God if you'd like an example of what I mean), and a tone that seemed constantly oppressive and disheartening. Not saying it shouldn't exist, and I think it's a perfect product for a certain audience, I just wanted to comment that it wasn't for me and its a lot of money, so think hard about whether its for you or not. Beyond that, I wish the creator all the success in the world with the update on KS and hope everyone who buys a copy has a wonderful (in the most horrific sense of the word) experience.

[@asl2025]

Aside from the excellent review, this is the best produced video you guys have ever done. really liked the flow of it and the simple location work. I'm pretty sure it was all in focus as well, which is no small praise in the world of board game review videos. EDIT: That's a very untrustworthy head of hair on that young man, what is he hiding? Or is he just moving much faster in his own dimension?

[@davidlockwood8127]

I love that dudes hair in the shots where they are playing the game.

[@gallowsraven70]

I'm a little confused by some of your review, in particular your statement of the basic hunt cards as being an example of unnecessary overproduction. The hunt track is populated by the different event card types in an order specific to the quarry you're hunting. This means it can't be printed on the track itself and I'm not sure how much of the price tag is increased using cards over tokens or something similar. The second part is about the level of paperwork involved. As a long time pen and paper role-player I find the way KD:M handles character progression to be quite streamlined especially considering the short life expectancy some of the survivors have. The primary goal of the game is to keep your settlement alive and this involves crafting and expanding using the resources you find and to do this some level of bookkeeping is required. Apart from a few disagreements with your review I still found your closing comment priceless. P.S. there's nothing wrong with excessive Prog-Rock ;)

[@shodan1451]

yeah he got the hunt thing wrong. your suppose to mix those identical cards in with the specific hunt cards associated with the thing your hunting so the deck is not all the same

[@miguelmachuca452]

I have a character named lucky, my group was fighting the Screaming antelope and my character got eaten by it. 2 other characters were permanently dead and the last character alive was disemboweled and had to injure wound it twice with fist and tooth with a -1 strength token. We did the math and it was a 6.7% chance for us to get out alive. The disemboweled played got the needed hits and my character lucky got the disemboweled character out, in which my character immediately murdered that character. Shit happens lmao.

[@MassconfusionGaming]

I have played Kingdom Death:Monsters for going on 90 hours now,i play it with my girlfriend and every now and then a 3rd party. Best comparison? Dark souls, it will never give you the full story, everything is brutal, it is random, and when you beat an obstacle for the first few times it gives that "Hell yeah, we/i did this!". For the sake of the emotions this game will bring to you and the quality of it all, and how differnt it is is why i love it, a single session will have brought Joy,Sadness,Exitement,comradery,rivalry,wonder,arguments,feelings of being terrified. No other board-game have ever brought anywhere near what this game does. And a sidenote: If you wanna try it before you buy it, there are really good versions on it on tabletop simulator. This guy´s review is a bit vague on the game, but the game itself is pretty vague and dark, and gritty,evil....You should try it atleast once, if its for you its gonna grab your soul.

[@niallreid7664]

Genuine question, did the art bother her?

[@MassconfusionGaming]

@@niallreid7664 it didnt, she actually loves to look at it in detail, at most it was a bit of a shock like " they can have this in a game and its allowed? " .

[@bobfitzpatrick6061]

Man, I love you guys . But nothing has made me want this game. Between the price And convoluted rules. this video didn't either. Thanks for another great video tho!

[@DiceHard]

This is my favourite nature documentary :)

[@TheCatHerder]

I really appreciate the depth of this review, I was super excited to pick this game up but I think I might hold off until I can get a consensus with my playgroup of if this is something we would all be into and enjoy.

[@Zakalwe-01]

Oh, what a good review. Not just of this game, but of any product. This, THIS is how you do reviews.

[@hotzrobert805]

I just adore this game and it's entirely YOUR fault. When deciding whether to purchase it a year and a half ago, I watched this review. One of your complaints about it found you likening it to Amon Duul II's Yeti album. That sold it right there cause I am that guy.

[@trepanator6]

Hotz Robert I got this album (and Phalus Dei) from one guy from my work. Listening to that now makes me think of all those creations in our culture that transcends the boundaries of genres. Is it a game? Sure. Is it just a game? Certainly not. As many things it can be a medium to something more personal. Can it be an art of some sort? I think it can be, I hope it is.

[@samuelrichter3417]

ew krautrock gross

[@Redfoxe]

Would have loved to own it, but that price tag. I can dream about a poverty edition :P. But it wouldnt work probably.

[@bioshockinfintyfan]

Just get tabletop simulator with a scripted table with that.

[@MattWeber]

@Matsumoto Outo its on steam. Its a simulated table top so you can play with friends remotely.

[@damien2800]

Been playing KDM as a two player over lockdown. Yes it's messy and bitty and such a pain in the ass sometimes, and your getting punched in the face constantly, for reasons that are mostly not your fault BUT THEN..........you finally kill the horrible mess of thing that's been throwing your guys around like dog toys for the last hour and it feels so so very good. Then you harvest the carcass and build a bad ass weapon from it! And for some reason... you keep going.

[@joebags7445]

I just wish I knew how to get a copy that wasn’t price gouged man

[@thesaintjimmy88]

@@joebags7445 There is a reprint running right now for $350. If you want to get a physical copy then that'll be the route to go. Otherwise there are some excellent Tabletop Simulator modules available for the game.

[@WoodlandDrake]

I got this on Tabletop Simulator so I could play this with a friend across the world, it's definitely justifies the purchase of Tabletop Simulator

[@douggibson2030]

Forest Armstrong Same, feels like it was made for it

[@DCAMM720]

"You are masticated" If a game doesn't tell me this then I don't want it

[@AFRSteve]

Bravo! It's reviews like this that separate SU&SD from the pack. I've already gone down a rabbit hole with Shadows of Brimstone, so I don't have time, money, or patience for this game. But still fun to see one Englishman's journey.

[@Yohnface]

As an owner of the game I can say the amount of paperwork involved is pretty intense. Especially when a survivor who had a glob load of stuff dies. I've found it much easier being able to keep it set up but the packing and noting down of gear for the departing survivors is quite a load to bear.

[@JediStratos]

Would you recommend it for purchase? I just found this game and thinking if its worth buying it

[@malkavian5]

Maybe an App or software tool would help keep all those modifiers in check and reduce paper work. I've been working on an app for Twilight Imperium because it too can have a lot of modifiers and what if's? that players tend to forget during game play.

[@yeatdabun1]

nice raccoon

[@AliG-ih8ku]

Random hunt events aren't all the same, some of the promotional/expansions add cards to that deck, there's also harvesting/mining events that are on those cards as well, it does seem a bit silly but it's a future-proof for added content. Having said that there is a lot of stuff to keep track of, luckily a friend of mine has made an app for the game which we use to keep track of all the settlement and survivor things.

[@shodan1451]

yeah, he didnt get that your suppose to shuffle the 'draw a random hunt event' along with the hunt specific cards to make the deck.

[@triplea657aaa]

I feel like KDM might be better for more groups as a D&D thing where the DM can carefully fudge things to keep things difficult and deadly, but not completely campaign ruining because a single bad die roll ruined everything.

[@Bodyknock]

"It's a fine line between stupid and clever." - "How much more black could this be, and the answer is ... none." - In other words Kingdom Death: Monster is the Spinal Tap of board games. :) (It probably even has a miniature Stonehenge in it.)

[@MrUzilara]

we're starting soon with Kingdom Death but after this review, i'm not so sure anymore we'll have the stamina to get to the end of a campaign :/

[@martind2520]

Did you get to the end?

[@dazmaster22]

i love the humor of the game, its like the childish humor is the way the survivors get through the crushing depression they have to be constantly going through without just offing themselves.

[@maxducoudray]

As a somewhat older gamer, this game fits into a very familiar space for me. Once games like this were advertised in Dragon Magazine as mail order specialty products designed by some guy who was willing to put his huge, messy works out into the public space. One game a friend of mine ordered came on hundreds of xeroxed sheets in a huge three-ring binder and promised to be the most detailed RPG ever created. Later, actual books would show up in game stores by strange people with odd philosophies; games that didn't quite work and were overburdened with detail. To me KD:M is a bad game on its face. The rules systems are super-antiquated, being driven by huge matrices of randomly generated outcomes. The difference is that it arrives in the era of Kickstarter-funded games with lavish components and the designer is good at soliciting talented sculptors and artists to produce something extravagant enough that people will throw real money at it. But underneath, it's that same old silly game from an ad in the back of Dragon in 1980. For me, I want more out of a game system.

[@Glic2000]

Yeah, the way people were raving about this game, I thought it was something truly revolutionary. Imagine my surprise when I discovered most of its mechanics were about 30 years old.

[@KX5Kat]

22:26, there are special hunt event cards, some of which you unlock and some of which come with the expansions and pinups. These special cards have the same backing as the basic hunt event cards and get shuffled into the deck. So, there's always the chance that you'll reveal when of these during a hunt and get totally thrown off.

[@oliveribbett8187]

"think of something that's really big" *imagines the Titanic* "no, no something bigger than that" *k, imagines... NY city* "right, double that" :o "now think of like, a whole shelf of those" :O

[@toasToaTs]

This video is phenomenal! Loving the metaphors and breakdown of the game. Seems like the creators have created true a rabbit hole to hell/insanity.

[@VictorSteiner]

Yes, and insanity is a good thing (if you ask the rulebook) ;P

[@alwaysfallingshort]

I already had your prog-rock metaphor in the chamber, ready to go. I think the art style evokes it naturally. I am one of those music lovers who has to try everything, and ends up really appreciating the little nuggets buried under all of that. I cannot really fathom having the income to afford this level of esoteterica.

[@robkicsi5445]

These reviews are absolutely amazing. Just want to say thank you as I was looking for a channel like yours for some time. I am happy to have found you. Keep it up. You are the Angry (Funny) Joe of the board games world.

[@FrasierFanMSU]

I'm gonna make a game that's just called Shitworld, a modern-set lite RPG where everything that happens is just as shitty as possible, without relief, for 25 grueling, wholly dice-based missions with names like "Pet Store Fire" and "Something Something Dark Souls." When you finish the last mission, you open a beautifully-made little wooden treasure chest. Inside is a cyanide capsule for each player. KS millions, here I come!

[@ginjaninja7590]

The duplicate hunt cards are so you can track if you have done a hunt event for that space. When you are done you remove the card. This is so you do not accidentally roll on the hunt event table an extra time by accident. Lots of things like that are not automatically apparent, but become apparent when encounter a situation that makes it apparent.

[@ginjaninja7590]

Only only in the case of when they move into an empty space. And that roll is done immediately and can't be re-rolled accidentally. Which would only occur when an event pushes them back and they still have to move forward. They are also there to create a more diluted pool for future events and expansion such as the lonely tree yes. Probably more "future proofing" the design than anything.

[@JesusVargas-zt2dl]

Thank you SUSD for doing this review, and the owners of the game who lent it to you guys to try. I've pined after this game ever since I've heard about it but that $250 price tag combined with the delayed gratification of waiting till the summer to get it has kept me from purchasing the game. Hearing your closing argument about how it is similar to bad prog rock definitely spoke to me, since I do listen to prog rock and can understand the reference. Personally I'm not a big fan of the horror theme and would prefer these game mechanics (boss fight/settlement phase/crafting/RPG) in a smaller game with maybe tokens and add-on figures to buy in different theme, sci-fi or fantasy.

[@BraggLP]

I want to say thanks for making this video, because it made me think about about a really important question. Do I want to spend around 400$ on that game when I´m not even sure if I have the people the play it frequently enough to say it was worth it?

[@igorpersin7484]

Exact same reason why I decided not to back it. Since I would probably never finish it, I barely get people to play once in a month or two a game of eldritch horror... And then if I somehow managed to get people to play it, and we were in the middle of campaign and as it happens, we die, so lets restart. I can bet that people would probably loose interest to do it all over and invest so much more time in it. For that much money, I can get more games, that would actually get played and finished, sell them, buy new ones, repeat... It's a good game, but if you don't have right people for it, that are willing to invest lots and lots of time in it, it will fail short. And I have 0 will to play board game solo.

[@MargaretWalkerWyvernsrose]

Are we ever going to see Cthulhu Wars?

[@kungfuchef8500]

I asked for the same thing a few days ago !

[@victorlamy6590]

I agree when Paul states that the game is big enough to be grandiose and underwhelming at the same time. But at the end, in my opinion, a good game is a game that makes you live a powerful and epic experience with your friends and this game definitely does. Often. While building your settlement, you will make tough decisions that will question your morality. The combat game mechanics are very elegant, never in my limited board gaming experience Artificial Intelligence has been so clever and exciting. So I don't understand why Paul is on the fence when it comes to recommending it. Would it be different if the game was the same price tag than any other board game? I am glad you ask. Who cares really, you'll get to sell your copy for as much you bought it... As an owner of the first version, I truly recommend you play this game if you are given the chance.

[@mattbowen957]

In the Gardens of Eden, baby! Thank you for another great review!

[@j3errym]

Player Elimination , you then become another survivor from the settlement , in fact you can switch the survivors you take on the hunt , once you have increased the population. A time for some to rest and recover. You gain equipment by population , so you can swap it around between fights and Hunts.

[@mackstertube]

That snow looks awesome. You look like your in a winter wonderland. It's like 35 degrees where I am at the moment. The grass is greener I guess.

[@scottjoewill]

4:54 what is happening with that man's hair? Did he go super saiyan and forget how to go back?

[@BoardGameCoffee]

I'm sorry but that guy's hair in the flashback just wiped my mind of everything I just heard till this point.... I'm not far in to the video, but I'm not sure I can get that epic do out of my mind... it's encapsulated my attention

[@joshhart379]

Watching this with 1.6 pre orders announced this weekend. Considering if £270 is worth it!!!

[@joshhart379]

@Ciaran Byrne nice. I'm still tempted as it's still on offer. But think I'll use that money to back Etherfield and AT:O for the same price (plus I don't have to build the minis as I don't have the time at the mo)

[@mijyt]

Nice review as always but I really think you should mention that the miniatures all come on sprues and will take, literally, dozens of hours to cut out and glue together.