Kirkenes Raid | Albacores versus Messerschmitts & Stukas (1941)

[@spirossaris308]

Great video. Doesnt get any better than listening to first hand testimonies.

[@bobroberts6155]

Another superb video, it’s always humbling to hear these first hand accounts.

[@Sonofdonald2024]

I love the structure of these videos. Broken down into sections covering each element and the insertion of images showing each group's elements. Great stuff as ever 😊

[@ArmouredCarriers]

Thanks. I'm glad it works. I hoped it would give the cobbled together components of different interviews some narrative structure - without a narrator! I hate hearing my own voice. And too much on-screen text kills the spell that these guys' tales weave.

[@forthleft]

@@ArmouredCarriers I have you on notifications. Truly clever Youtubing.

[@ArmouredCarriers]

Heh, thanks very much. Essentially though, I'm just making what I want to watch out of frustration. Don't get me wrong - there's plenty of good stuff out there. But the geek in me wants something more & different. And while these guys have plenty of errors in their "big picture" memories, the manner in which they convey their experiences is something even the best commercial documentaries rarely catch.

[@downwindchecklist6567]

Fantastic report of a very much unknown operation. Great documentary. Thank you for putting it together and sharing!

[@johnfranborra]

Indeed. Great vid on a topic I'd known nothing about. Speaking as an old-school pilot, I love the Swordfish and Albacore; no, they weren't fast, but they had wonderful agility, performance and sturdiness ideal for the particular missions they were assigned.

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

Wonderful editing and narration.

[@TheStuart31]

good that this story was told. Sad that so many aircraft, and crews were lost. I had never heard this story before. Those old string bags, against very modern aircraft, of the time. Great images, and well told.

[@ArmouredCarriers]

Thanks. Like one of the vets says - it's not a story you'll find in the history books. The only source I could find was Dr Ben Jones' excellent published collections of Fleet Air Arm reports and memos. I was surprised to find so many detailed accounts as I did in the audio archives. I learnt a lot myself.

[@johnfranborra]

Great video on an engagement I'd not known about. Speaking as an old-school pilot, I love the Swordfish and Albacore; no, they weren't fast, but they had wonderful agility, performance and sturdiness ideal for the particular missions they were assigned.

[@frankeimer3906]

Thanks for your hard work for putting these special videos.

[@ArmouredCarriers]

You are welcome.

[@ianbell5611]

Great video. Thank you. Cheers

[@UncleJoeLITE]

Very interesting doco, thanks.

[@geordiedog1749]

Don’t blame the Fulmars. They were never meant to tangle with land based fighters (although they had a kill:loss ratio of 1:1 although the cohort is small due to my earlier point8.

[@RemusKingOfRome]

Great video.

[@davidaspinall496]

Superb photographs ...

[@dmunro9076]

One thing that's clear is that the FAA was still in it's infancy (and was short of aircrew) as a separate air service and consequently was very sensitive to losses. However, the losses during this raid were not that severe in absolute terms at 16 aircraft. A year later and both the FAA and USNAF would have a different perspective on loss rates during active operations.

[@thunderK5]

Achates was an unlucky ship, meeting her end in the Battle of the Barnets Sea at the end of 1942.

[@stuartcoleman1032]

Yes, the Destroyer HMS Achates had its bow blown off when it hit a 'friendly' mine, but its bulkhead held and it stayed afloat... it was towed in reverse to Iceland for repairs... 60+ sailors died, included my grandfather George Stratton -- Stoker... one of the few bodies recovered... he is buried in a small port in eastern Iceland in a war cemetry section of the local graveyard... none of my family has ever been able to visit his grave to pay their respects, but I have vowed I will one day... such a wild and lonely place to rest his bones, so far from his west London home... the strangeness of war..!

[@stuartcoleman1032]

The Achates was also one of the escorting destroyers which went after the Bismark, when HMS Hood was destroyed... maybe it was an unlucky ship..?

[@stuartcoleman1032]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_EF_(1941)

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Priceless this is.

[@thomasrotweiler]

I suppose checking there were enough ships in those harbours to warrant sending 2 carrier strike groups all the way almost to Russia would have been too difficult ?

[@ArmouredCarriers]

In 1941, yes. Especially when you consider where it is.

[@geordiedog1749]

Would the Sea Hurricanes have had the range to escort the strike? I don’t think they would have.

[@CaptainBanjo-fw4fq]

They provided CAP for the carrier. The fulmars were there for escorting the bombers.

[@ArmouredCarriers]

Yeah, I think the Fulmars were the conceptual equivalent to "heavy fighters" ... ie the Me110. They were the "escort" fighters of 1940. So the main threat in the European theatre for carrier groups. It wasn't really until 1943 before single-engine, single-seat fighters had the range (and navigational technology) to be a threat out of sight of land (although the Zero and its initial highly trained pilots were pretty close).

[@CaptainBanjo-fw4fq]

The Fulmars also had pretty good endurance- lots of fuel and deep magazines. If the British had invested in higher performance engines earlier, the fulmar could have gone from being mid-tier at best to perhaps even competitive.

[@markfryer9880]

​@@CaptainBanjo-fw4fqI thought that the Fulmar was fitted with a Merlin engine the same as the Hurricane and it was just the larger fuselage and extra crew and fuel which dragged its performance down? Mark from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺

[@CaptainBanjo-fw4fq]

@@markfryer9880 You’re right. But the RN could have pursued more powerful engines earlier. Like 2000hp instead of 12-1600hp. The Air Ministry scuppered that, as the Merlin was sufficient for their needs and, when not, they could just whack more of them on the plane. For example, the Lancaster had four.

[@WilmerCook]

England had some great carrier's but crummy planes. Later in the war they got the F4Fs.

[@downunderrob]

That was the fault of the RAF. They didn't want the FAA having good aircraft.

[@geordiedog1749]

@@downunderrobThis is true. It was the bloody crab creams fault. Bloody useless, the RAF.

[@geordiedog1749]

Swordfish and Applecores were not ‘crummy’. Neither was the Fulmar considering its expected roles and development time. Soworddish and Fulmars both have very impressive stats. The Sea Hurricane could do quite well as it was essentially a hurricane. Later, the Firefly was very decent. We also had the Grumman Martley/Wildcats from 1940 from the Sttes which were good (once the sabotage had been fixed). So, despite the best efforts of the crabs we eventually got some decent planes. (Yes, I know I conveniently side stepped the Barracuda)

[@ArmouredCarriers]

The F4F in 1941 was considered unsuitable for combat as it didn't have armour or self-sealing fuel tanks. Only later versions had those. And those entered service 1942+

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@geordiedog1749and the Skua , although it has a couple shining moments too

[@janwitts2688]

One wonders what effect a harbour attack on Italian naval bases by this force would have had... such a waste of men and material when neither could or should have been spared..

[@DataWaveTaGo]

*Operation EF (1941) (Raid on Kirkenes and Petsamo) took place on 30 July 1941*

[@sailordude2094]

"two men were rescued by Soviet forces after two days at sea in a dinghy." Great stories, thank you! Interesting history, Britain declared war on Finland but the US never did.

[@kennethfields2288]

And of course there was the debacle of The Channel Dash.

[@jameswebb4593]

Never heard of this debacle before . Another example of Lions being led by Donkeys .

[@ArmouredCarriers]

Or elephants, as the case may be ...

[@muss8587]

You know your in a really bad plane when they send up Stuka's to intercept you🤫😎

[@ArmouredCarriers]

Given the outcome, there was clearly a degree of overconfidence on the Stuka's behalf. But, like the Devastators at Midway, unescorted torpedo bombers are inherently vulnerable to fighters.

[@SgtZekeMitsubish]

what is the name of the song?

[@ArmouredCarriers]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKqTaqN6Ztdgh9U ◁ Intro music: Bizet’s L’Arlesienne Suite No. 1

[@user-tgbghftvm]

Потрясающе

[@incubus1195]

Respect to those who gave their lives. Of course one can question the validity of sending the raid. Lions led by donkeys?

[@tvgerbil1984]

John Tovey, commander of the home fleet, questioned the validity of sending the raid. He was overuled by Churchill. After the debacle, Churchill tried to sack him but he survived in that post for another year.

[@pencilpauli9442]

Winston Churchill...military genius. That was sarcasm in case you missed it.

[@markfryer9880]

The one thing that Churchill got right was the need for the Mulberry Harbours for D-Day. Incidentally, my Granddad's best mate here in Melbourne Australia was born in Blenheim Castle the Churchill ancestral family home. My Dad only discovered this when he saw Cyril's place of birth in his Funeral Booklet. His parents had both been servants of the Churchill family. Mark from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺

[@ArmouredCarriers]

His energy and self confidence - when applied to politics - help drag a demoralised nation through the dark days of World War II. His energy and self confidence - when applied to military planning - also helped contribute to the darkness of those days ...

[@tonysa2337]

Well, the only reason that Britain survived the war was because Churchill managed to drag the US into it. You should be very grateful to Churchill if you're British.

[@tvgerbil1984]

@@tonysa2337 It was the Japanese who dragged the US into the war at Pearl Harbor. The Germans then declared war on the US out of stupidty. For the two year preceding that, Churchill tried but failed to persuade the US to fight alongside Britain.

[@richardschaffer5588]

@@ArmouredCarrierswithout Churchill Great Britain would have thrown in the towel after the collapse of France!

[@ondrejdobrota7344]

No Russia, Soviet Union.

[@liambrooks2330]

The raid should never have been made A terrible waist of men and material

[@daniellapus636]

My brother who's a joker used to tell me that the fairy aviation was owned by Adolf hitler.the other brother who's an Anglophile told me let's be thankful for England Germany had no aircraft carrier during wwtwo.

[@Filomeno28]

Que aviones complicados los ingleses. Pesados, poco maniobralbles. Infinidad de variantes. Desfasados casi desde su nacimiento. Solo ellos podían pilotarlos. Triple esfuerzo. Pocas excepciónes como el spitfire, Lancaster, hurricane y poco más. Los alemanes los superaban. Lejos. Y ni hablar los americanos!..."" 🤔

[@patrickrichards2577]

✨🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿✨🥰✨👍✨♥️✨🤗✨.

[@kidmohair8151]

47:09 tsk tsk. those libidinous young men. really.

[@paulgibbons2320]

Operation sitting duck. Can't win them all.

[@duckbizniz663]

It seems the Allies were as infamous with propaganda as the NAZIs. You wonder if the Swordfish were really that successful at Taranto against the Italian Navy in November 1940.

[@ArmouredCarriers]

Like this story, the end of the war revealed the evidence. Propaganda is only effective for as long as one side controls or dominates the information flow. www.armouredcarriers.com/operation-judgement-swordfish-attack-taranto-from-hms-illustrious