The Controversial Changes in Sonic X Shadow Generations

[@peckneck2439]

So basically in this wonderful rewrite it seems like classic sonic ate knuckles' island because he awkwardly touches his belly after knuckles asks about the island...

[@CptJistuce]

Sometimes you just so hungry you accidentally eat a whole island. We've all been there.

[@choonweichan4600]

Classic Sonic is like: I thought it was cake!

[@jPlay7MC]

no he ate the grapes

[@supermathews0209]

Suspiciously Angel Island shaped Sonic

[@kirotalksyt]

That's what it looks like yeah lol

[@willbrgamer5137]

About Amy: The cutscenes were changed, but her dialogues in the white space still include her flirting

[@Super70000]

no it is changed

[@willbrgamer5137]

@@Super70000 Have you tried talking to her right after the cutscene? None of the dialogues of the characters outside of the cutscenes has been changed.

[@Super70000]

@@willbrgamer5137 oh i thought you meant the cutscene after you rescue her my bad

[@Chillin-jg8vg]

Yet anti woke Grifters complain about Amy not loving Sonic.

[@Winder_Storm]

Is that line about her saying her “teamwork leads to marriage, wait sonic come back” still there I just recently found out about it , man they did Amy so dirty in og gens , I’m happy they changed it but it shouldn’t have been a problem in the first place

[@UselessSet]

5:26 Knuckles: where is my island? Suspiciously Island shaped sonic:

[@Darksencevious]

5:20 he ate Angel Island 💀

[@Avriel_Mimiga]

he eated it

[@deringjosuegarcia1531]

Inhale the whole thing

[@brokenbone9518]

Light snack for Sonic.

[@anointilisque7768]

Shin sonic

[@Dog_deliveries]

Only the dialogue was changed, not be animation at the original dialogue was knuckles saying "have you gotten fatter?"

[@arrombaacasa390]

Sega is literally time eater 😭

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Remember Sage from Frontiers? Her name is anagram of Sega as well

[@CptJistuce]

​@@brandonwilliams6119Has been for ages.

[@Pumpkinator683]

​@@CptJistuce I see what you did there

[@matthewisguy7336]

@@Pumpkinator683 BEING THIS GOOD TAKES AGES

[@slobbyxd3885]

You’re not wrong, yakuza games have like 3 months of playtime on me lmao

[@darrinlyons7291]

"and that pink water makes me really nervous" now THAT'S how you do a call back. not even just to Sonic 2, but to the feeling of hearing that Drowning jingle lol

[@Xxx-pk3vi]

To be fair, the writing and writers of the original dialogue were criticized for openly stating they barely knew anything about Sonic. Having a person who closely follows the series do the rewrites might not be too bad.

[@DelusionalDunmer]

2:27 I would like to add that Sonic does canonically recognize Green Hill. We all know the infamous line in Sonic Forces "Green Hill is looking a lot more like Sand Hill right now"

[@Crump-I6x]

What does that prove, just cause he remembers it later doesn't mean he remembers it at the time of Gens.

[@DaNintendude]

There's also Sonic Prime, which shows Sonic sees Green Hill as a really important place. It's not his home but it's a place he likes to visit a lot. As much as I dislike Prime being canon, it should at least be considered. I doubt Sonic randomly started to appreciate and hang out in Green Hill after Generations. It was probably an ongoing thing.

[@gunman8452]

Look at it from the perspective of when the game came out, Green Hill only appeared in spin-offs like racing games, the only main games that featured it we're Sonic 1, Adventure 2, and Generations

[@Crump-I6x]

@DaNintendude Prime isn't canon nor should it be as Sonic has a different characterization there and Sonic hanging out in Green Hill after Gens isn't random and could've totally happened. He probably did find it really nice and started hanging out there more after Gens, it isn't anymore random then him deciding to hang out in any other zone.

[@DaNintendude]

@Crump-I6x Prime _is_ canon. I wouldn't like it to be, and I agree about characterization, but it's been stated to be canon. With that being said, there actually _is_ evidence that Sonic is more familiar with Green Hill than we'd believe. Note how at the beginning of Sonic Generations, Classic Sonic is running through Green Hill Zone. It's possible that he was ripped straight from the events of Sonic 1, but based on Sonic's familiarity with Robotnik and Classic Tails, that moment would've at least been after Sonic 2. This means that Sonic has indeed returned to Green Hill outside of Sonic 1.

[@NefariousLoto]

Swear the Sonic Fanbase are so freakin divisive 🤣

[@kirotalksyt]

Yeah seems like that will always be the case 😅

[@susped645]

Any little change and they split up like the Earth in Unleashed.

[@Platitudinous9000]

it's usually a vocal minority tbh. like, in any fanbase. if you hear about people online complaining about something, it's probably not nearly as many people as you think, the ones complaining are just really noisy about it

[@egamerej]

and literally for what reason, we got a good ass sonic game, cry about it i guess 😂

[@Friendlyplushyadventures]

just like every other gaming franchise of course its divisive people have their own opinions

[@LolipooChimichanga]

There are few reasons why the dialogue feels like a downgrade at least to me: - They didn't change much of the animations or lipsyncing for the times they spoke in the OG game - The changed lines are either too wordy, or too less of dialogue to fit in (example: ending cutscene when modern and classic sonic and the ending cutscene).This causes their body language to be conlicted with their actual words. - The voice direction overall just feels lifeless and fake. Not alot of energy to their lines. I'd say the ONLY real improvement in terms of dialogue was letting modern sonic speak after he's saved each of his friends.

[@LolipooChimichanga]

For refrences... While cool at first, feel too forced at times. I think the original did better in just ALLUDING to it, rather than just putting it infront of your face. Like for example: In OG Gens, Tails says after completing Modern Chemical Plant, that the pink water makes him nervous. If you have played sonic 2 you would understand why since tails always gets left behind, and it's worse for him when you get to the infamous water climb section. The rewrite was worse, since it feels more cheap imo.

[@LolipooChimichanga]

Also the connection between the two stories feels VERY half-baked, which I'm sorry... Shouldn't THAT be the focus when it came to rewriting the story??? Instead in comparison, they focused more on trivial things like how Amy Rose's character is shown, or silver having a chillidog at the ending cutscene (which is obviosuly not finished like everything else with the cutscenes) They did all of these little changes, and didn't do anything for one of the most boring final bosses in sonic history??? Especially when you have the final boss of Shadow Gens in the SAME PACKAGE??? It just shows that so much more time went into the Shadow portion than having BOTH games be worked on at equal value.

[@shadowthehedgehog5000]

​@@LolipooChimichangaCouldn't agree with you more

[@ArtseyHayton06]

​@@LolipooChimichanga and that's what makes me so upset about the two stories is that they don't connect outside of the Sonic and Shadow interaction

[@gabrielsofta944]

I completely disagree with your third point. Listening to both the original and new voice lines, I think the voice direction is pretty much the exact same as in the original

[@promaster424]

This game's remake is like gaslighting yourself that you were a better person in the past than you actually were

[@KperaOfficial]

This is so freaking accurate to all the 2010s games...

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Only year I miss from the 2010s is 2010 itself, it really felt like we were slowly entering a new era with the rise of Smartphones and Social Media, some video games would play it safe by doing nostalgia pandering and I think it’s from the success of Megaman 9.

[@nyeeeofthestarsz1804]

​@@brandonwilliams6119 I formed my first thoughts in 2010 (I was 4). More seriously my favorite year in the 2010's is 2015, we got Undertale this year, FNAF the year before and dragon ball super anime was at its peak.

[@Christian-gr3gu]

Yes because showing rouge back and having Amy hug sonic, is bad

[@xnortheast1106]

​@@Christian-gr3guIt's still unnecessary censorship

[@Preteristboy]

The funny thing is that the only changes made to the Japanese version besides the visual changes are Sonic's additional lines after saving his friends. Other than that, no changes were made to the script.

[@Hewasnumber1]

Man, if only I understood Japanese so I wouldn’t have be stuck in the Ian Flynn rabbit hole.

[@FandomExpert1970s]

​@@Hewasnumber1vomp vomp vomp, deal with it.

[@Hewasnumber1]

@@FandomExpert1970s No.

[@darkskull1982]

​​@@Hewasnumber1 There's this person named Windii who translates the Japanese side of Sonic into English. You could go for that.

[@dug1115]

So a bad dub job? just like Ranma 1 1/2 I guess.

[@matti.8465]

Many of these changes feel like they were done to appease the most annoying Sonic fans. They removed nearly all the comedy from the game because people complained about the blue hedgehog series not taking itself completely seriously in its lighthearted anniversary game.

[@Doghero780]

To be fair, it’s an anniversary game. References to past entry’s and lore focus seem appropriate. It’s a bit cheesy don’t get me wrong but I definitely prefer it to the original. I didn’t hate the original but sonic seemingly being ignorant to his own past was odd. Plus, the lack of reference to the fact he has time traveled was weird.

[@MaoRatto]

I am mixed about it. Due to the censorship was stupid... Give us the option to use the original vs. old dialogue as both sides would be happy... It's a 2011 game after all. So why not embrace an option to see old vs. new changes. Also this is the same game that rouge flashes robots for an ocean palace mission. So who are they are trying to convince that Rouge isn't sensual? I believe just make the alterations optional.

[@Doghero780]

@@MaoRatto it’s not that she’s not sensual but she’s got more focus on her actual personality. I think the censorship is stupid too for the record. I just think it’s good to focus on that for once.

[@MaoRatto]

@@Doghero780 :p There was no need to make the alterations worse, then slap a bat booty shot. It's so hypocritical. It's dumb when it was fine in 2011.

[@wednesdaygeckok.7899]

Bruh they give an animal character in a kids game less tits and you goobers are crying censorship Cap You're furries and irrational

[@benjamingesinski9170]

This might sound nit picky, but I liked how the original Generations didn't show Classic Eggman until the end of the game. That way it keeps the surprise that the 2 Eggmen are working together by making you think there was only one Eggman.

[@AngelLopez-cy3fw]

Honestly only change that bums me out is that Knuckles doesn't get sent flying because Strong Amy will always be my favorite Amy

[@Kutomi1]

I think the aim there was to make Knuckles not look weak, not to downplay Amy's strength Probably biased tho cuz I'm a Knuckles fan

[@extremmefan7305]

@@Kutomi1 I'm not a Knuckles fan but I agree. If you make Amy suddenly strongarmed then it kinda downplays Knux being the muscle one. It also ends up making him look dumber than he is, because if Amy really was that strong, shouldn't he be amongst the few people to know that already?

[@Stickboy321Go]

@@Kutomi1finally, someone who actually gets it and knows why they stayed faithful to strength

[@brandonwilliams6119]

That’s the worst downgrade change ever, also Sonic not holding Amy by the face was so cute and goofy, SXSG is so soulless and sanitized of the funny moments of the original.

[@xnortheast1106]

​@@Stickboy321Gono

[@vianabdullah2837]

I think people are upset that the dialogue had to be changed to begin with. It's like the Star Wars special edition changes and the "Han shot first" debacle. Feels like it's erasing the past to fit with the current state of the franchise, irrespective on whether individual changes are good or bad.

[@brdgamemaster]

I am really glad someone else thought of this too. Atleast the level of gaslighting in characterization isn't as bad as seen in Toy Story 4

[@xxsupersayen34xxnoe33]

I'd be fine with them retconing stuff from previous titles in rereleases if sonic was an actually consistent franchise with a clear direction, but as it stands litterally every game tries to do something different and doesn't care much about what the previous games actually were like, I'm sure next time they rerelease generation it's going to slightly different again

[@oligarchies]

​@@brdgamemaster The idea that a literal toddler would forever keep the promise of playing with a tow cowboy because some college kid told her to do it was always dumb

[@DarkkirbyKRPG]

Fun fact about the Sonic monologue lines in Frontiers: They will only happen if Sonic does not enter a combat sequence, a Cyber Space stage, a boss fight, or interacts with a puzzle for at least 10 minutes (might also include platforming segments but I am unsure). If you somehow managed to do that and still didn't get one, it's also because collecting a ring resets the timer. Yeah. No idea why they wanted to make getting these lines so hard, but there's a mod for the PC version that makes them trigger from either every 35 seconds to 2 minutes regardless of what you do.

[@warioplush]

As good as this version of Gens is the thing I’m most disappointed about is something they didn’t change I’m kind of sad that they didn’t add new levels to base Generations; while they DID add new stages in Shadow Generations so it’s not that big of a deal the only games after SG that were represented as levels were Forces and Frontiers, with Lost World, Mania, and Superstars not being there at all. Would’ve helped the game since Planet Wisp is still the last and still by far the least

[@MafaroChinyerere]

They removed "you and what mustache" joke

[@jackkemp7256]

9:49 I think that change was in response to the backlash against Knuckles looking dumber over time.

[@butchebk01]

The main issue i have with the rouge change is practicality. Her new outfit makes no sense. how is she supposed to put it on when her wings would get in the way. thats what i always thought was the reason she wore open back clothing to accommodate her wings

[@Burgerbro7117]

I felt similar at first, but then I remembered that these games had never been practical. Rouge wears a full jumpsuit in Sonic Heroes, and her back is covered. Tails shouldn't be able to fly with his tails like helicopter propellers because they would just get twisted at the base.

[@ughugh5829]

@@Burgerbro7117 Mental gymnastics to justify 4Kidz-level Censorship. Ew.

[@butchebk01]

@@Burgerbro7117 admittedly the tails thing did bother me after i realised that as well but outside of things like that that dont have a workaround they really should try and keep things that can be made to make sense do so.

[@TORXINYUEXAVIERSTUDENT]

I think if a fictional hedgehog can wear shoes, a fictional bat can wear a suit with tiny openings for her wings

[@ughugh5829]

@@TORXINYUEXAVIERSTUDENT There was nothing wrong with it before. Why is it so hard to understand?

[@SnaksiXD]

There are two reasons why i don't like the idea that things were changed in Generations: 1. I *extremely* despise the idea of rewriting history like this, especially in a game that's about restoring history, and in one with a counterpart game that has a plotpoint of "Please don't change the past no matter how much you want to". 2: The changes made are half-assed. Only like 3 cutscenes are actually changed, none of them to accommodate for the new dialogue. A good number of scenes require the voice actors to talk unnaturally quickly to avoid SA2ing themselves. I didn't want a cutscene that imply that Classic Sonic eats Angel Island. Either keep Sonic Generations the same as it was, or redo all the cutscenes. You can't do this awkward middleground and not expect fans to be set off by this. For the first time i agree with people who'd rather play with the japanese voices and i'm happy that's an option, i'll just stick to those this time until mods do something about the dialogue. Thank goodness this didn't bleed over to Shadow Generations somehow.

[@Kutomi1]

Yeah I was honestly *hoping* they'd rewrite the story the moment I heard there's gonna be a Generations remaster, since I always thought that was the weakest part of the game. (I didn't think they would delist the original game on stores and make this the only available version however.) But the execution is so half-assed, they barely changed anything and I don't really feel like the changes they did make are an improvement. I mean I like some of the changes, while I don't like others. Overall, I'm still just indifferent towards the story, so it's like nothing changed. I also find it amusing that they decided to spend dev time and resources to raise the cloth on Rouge's back by like 2 inches.

[@koolooc726]

When did this game ever touch the subject of changing the past? They're not even time traveling themselves,it's just the stages being brought back

[@snintendog]

​@@koolooc726"We are traveling through time sonic!" "Without the timestones?" FFS how disingenuous do you have to be to defends this garbage.

[@Roty24-f6s]

​@@snintendogStill though the concept of changing the past is not something that was in generations.

[@JanGr-ek9mo]

I say they should have redone all the cut scenes and the entire script. Sega of America could’ve invested their big budget into redoing all the cutscenes for Sonic Generations to showcase the following: -Amy knocking over Sonic and Tails when trying to hug Sonic after Amy tell Sonic that she wants to hug him. Then the three of them get up and Amy tells him not to back away because hugs aren’t necessarily romantic. -Amy, Cream, Rouge, and Blaze talking with Sonic in white space as many different cutscenes, not just when the player is in the hub world. Sega could’ve allowed Sonic Team to add more cutscenes too, like: -A sight of Tails and Amy with Modern Sonic exploring Sky Sanctuary, and then Amy and Sonic exploring Speed Highway and describing what they think of that stage. -Then there’s Cream the Rabbit who could’ve done something similar like this with the stage commentary starting with City Escape, where she realizes G.U.N. is a protection agency of Sonic’s world. Rouge could’ve done the same as Cream starting with Seaside Hill, and Blaze could’ve done the same starting with Rooftop Run. -What’s more is, Rouge, Blaze, and Amy could’ve taken it farther and kissed each other’s mouths as well as Sonic’s mouth, with Cream facing away from them. All because Sonic, Amy, Rouge, and Blaze could’ve had their private time for themselves to do share mouth kisses and decide to start romantic relationships with each other. And what sets me off most is that Shadow and Silver are uninterested in birthday parties, so the cutscene for when they join the party Modern Sonic’s friends should’ve been changed so that they clearly say they are uninterested in both his party and romance. Cream could’ve told Modern Sonic that he and the older girls should follow her to Vanilla’s house too. Blaze could’ve even showed Sonic and all the girls what Blaze’s world looked like, with Tails’ help for transporting. All these perfect cutscene additions and adding more voice overs could’ve improved the story further. I prayed that Sega would let the developers redo all these cutscenes to fit my wishes. But now what have I done that made Sega not allow all of that? Did I not tell them personally of my requests?

[@Reflectionnal]

I think why they referenced stuff in frontiers is since the timeline got shat on and no one knew what was canon and not, so they decided to throw in references to older sonic games so people could know what was canon or not

[@kingades1013]

Amy should’ve been kept the same because in frontiers it now shows how much she’s matured and is more chill. I don’t think she should always seem that way before frontiers

[@SuperSeasonChannel2003]

Amy may have regressed in Generations from Unleashed. In the end of that game, Amy's able to successfully ask Sonic out on a date, and then Black Knight happens, making Amy assume Sonic stood her up.

[@thebluewind5733]

I've been saying that too, but it's seems to be like this detail keep getting overlooked or ignored. It's just like since its toned down who cares if it lessens her character development. Frontiers Amy has loss that growth she's got to tone down her affection and be gradual with it, to mature. The Rouge back covering is bad redesign and strangely unnecessary but 2024 am I right?

[@kingades1013]

@@thebluewind5733 Yh some of the changes are very strange and unnecessary. The time spent fixing things that didn't need to be fixed could've been put into other stuff

[@Freedmoon44]

​@@thebluewind5733tbf it does seem like Sega is trying to put the same lid on for the most part on everyone's characterisation of the 2010's while going back to the time where they were written as more mature (works even better as their audience is getting older despite everything) in the early 2000, who had terrible game like 06, but generally better stories (if we forget Shadow 05 whose story is terrible solely because lack of proper continuity with Heroes the over edgy story and multiple stories none of whom are the true one). Its a mood for sure but even if it was badly done in Sonic Generation remake its not like Amy was always represented as a Sonic Simp, even by the time of Generation, she had her own character devellopement, opposed Sonic at one point for legitimate reason and her kind nature shined best in stuff like SA2 where she singlehandedly saved the world by convincing Shadow to actually think for a minute about what Maria really wanted and hell Shadow 05 too i believe? Granted Heroes was in the middle of that and a mess for her character if memories serves right. But all that to say that ultimately Sega could still make her more mature in Generation while she retained her obsession for Sonic and it still wouldnt hurt her devellopement in Frontiers where she wishes to actively seek her own path. They just half assed the entire thing though so it truly didnt do it any favor haha. Easier to work with the most mature story of their universe which is Shadow's backstory to give a mature mood than work maturity in a story that didnt take itself all that seriously originally

[@thebluewind5733]

@Freedmoon44 Indeed, like I said, it's not a deal breaker, but I feel editing some of what Gens delivered was warranted but the Amy and Knuckles lines are not good edits and is a product of overcorrecting what was fine. I feel that Colors and Gens were the better of the Pontac and Graff mess of storytelling. (Believe me I did not like most of their writing.) Heck even I can say Amy had character whiplash during the 2000s. I just think they could've worked with it like the Tails inconsistent characterization is all.

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

Sonic is all about freedom. Shadow is all about embracing who you are and your roots even if the world hates you, not denying it and pretending the past never happened. Censorship is the antithesis to BOTH those things. So anyone trying to defend censorship is a faker of a Sonic fan, as far as I am concerned.

[@Living_In_Paradise]

Go grift to another franchise It ain't that deep

[@Extreme2566]

The only changes i have a problem with are the Classic Sonic one and Rouge's outfit. I feel like they were unnecessary, especially with the hilarious implication that Classic Sonic ate Knuckles' island. To be clear, I'm referring to the back of Rouge's outfit.

[@ganges2264]

they practically censored all the jokes in the original. even the line where classic tails asks where sonic keeps his rings was changed to be about hoping the timeline would be fixed. amy smacking knuckles into the tree , sonic shoving amy with his hand and knuckles making classic sonic feel insecure about his weight were all funny and fit the light-hearted tone of the original. but post frontiers everything's gotta be all edgy and gloomy. generations was never meant to be taken seriously and the way amy acted here was inline with her characterization at the time , ever since CD all the way to unleashed. so why rewrite history in a game that's meant to celebrate it ? the small changes make the game lose it's charm and replaced it with very lame dialogue and cutscenes. being faithful to the original is a rule a remaster should NEVER break.

[@supergamerboy1177]

Wow you an idiot first off they made knuckles and Amy into a joke Second of all Generation story Is about all of time being destroyed Which is literally serious And make it into a joke is really idiotic like really You complain about frontier story being too dark Is the same people complain about dark Stories in sonic games like dude Touch grass also Remasters when they change something Either in dialogue Or design A subjective And being faithful Is never a good thing If the writing is bad like generations Original dialogue like really piss off With your idiotic take

[@redblue4127]

Literally no one cared about the characterization in Generations and actively criticized it because it was in the heat of the era we juat escaped from with Frontiers. Refusing to change is how you remain medicore lol. That is absolutely not the golden rule of a remaster.

[@sf936]

I suppose it’s a good thing I have both

[@thedoglovinggamer5825]

0:23 Rouge's new suit design makes me wonder how she puts it on with her wings in the way.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Also I wonder how would anyone find a Bareback Sexual, because they censored that part of her, yet Amy still has her bareback

[@anaveragegamer359]

Certain subreddits would make you think otherwise

[@Unknown_User174]

Well remember her ninja suit in Sonic X which doesn’t have her bareback? Rouge probably must have some holes so her wings will fit and they’ll make her feel comfortable for her to fly, But you have to know she’s not a playable character like in the original. Remember she was covered up in Sonic Prime.

[@guiteshima]

@@brandonwilliams6119 Well... A bare back CAN be sexual. Almost everything can if you put enough effort into it.. Or if you have the right perspective for it. And there's no denying that sexual appeal was part of her design... Which, tbh, i don't see a problem with that either... But that's the thing: it was only PART of her appeal (in terms of design), the other is the visual theming of a spy and her archetype as a femme fatale. It's just odd that they did this at all because it contradicts the idea behind her design. She IS supposed to look more mature than the other characters, and she IS supposed to look seductive because not only does it fit into the archetype; it's part of her job as a spy to use her looks to manipulate others and make it so she doesn't look dangerous at first glance.

[@noone-mo6gy]

Zippers or buttons probable.

[@SAITEKIKA]

I don't feel strongly about the changes themselves. It's more just the act of altering and censoring stuff is something I dislike on principle. I'd much rather game devs leave older games alone, it feels kinda intrusive that they feel the need to rewrite and tweak things in a way to hide/rewrite the game's original image. Just feels ugly, I'd much rather they just didn't remake it if I had the option. But yeah, even though that's how I feel. I'd be lying if I said I was going to lose sleep over it, nor do I think it's gonna stop me from picking up the game (whenever it goes on sale).

[@Drydoctor-qo5wt]

The whole point of a remake is to -you guessed it- REmake a game. They should change stuff, because not everything was great.

[@Agent_Ice0]

@@Drydoctor-qo5wt To REmake the game and to keep it similar enough to not crap on people's nostalgia, which is what you are really marketing. When you start changing things that people notice and it isn't seen as being for the better, they will complain. REmake the physics, the level design, and FIX what was wrong with the game. Otherwise, leave it.

[@SAITEKIKA]

@@Drydoctor-qo5wt The way you have responded suggests you've already made up your mind. I can guess the way this argument would go if I partook in it, so I'll skip to the chase and say I agree to disagree now. If you wanna have an actual discussion with someone, try to phrase things more reasonably next time. I will not be responding to you again, so goodbye.

[@Lanetgm]

@@Drydoctor-qo5wtbut IT’s marketed as a remaster not a remake

[@TheSwordsman100]

@@Agent_Ice0 The story and characterization IS what was wrong with Generations. Sonic and Tails should not be having amenisa about places they actively lived in. Fixing the script so that its in line with the games before the awful Meta Era and Frontiers is not a mistake it's a major boon. Sonic is NOT Mario, the Sonic series is supposed to care about it's characterization and continuity.

[@DigitalContainer]

Honestly, this whole thing could've been mitigated if they had made the change gradual instead of basically retconing her. Had she had an epiphany similar to Dipper from Gravity Falls that you can't force people to love you, only try to be worthy of their love, then the change would have been fine.

[@mythosinfinite6736]

She actually did have that revelation. In the comics, during an early arc before the Metal Virus, she mentions that she views Sonic as someone who has to run free on his own. She had some difficulty understanding that, but now she understands it. It'd be preferable if it was in a game. But it's still there, at least. Plus, if the comics are going to be canon, it's a good place for small character moments like this.

[@florntlaze810]

​@mythosinfinite6736 The comic canonically takes place after Forces. It would make no sense to add it to a game that takes place in the past.

[@mythosinfinite6736]

​@@florntlaze810 You're not wrong there, but since she still flirts with Sonic in whitespace in this game, it's not as drastic of a change as people are pretending it is. If anything, it's a nice midway difference that could very well be the starting point people are asking for.

[@florntlaze810]

@mythosinfinite6736 The starting point is whatever game you begin playing. The characters' starting point (personality) is how they where on the canonical timeline; be it Adventure 1-2 Amy, Riders, 06, Lost World, Forces, etc. Retconning the past for the sake of "new" people is disingenuous of an "remaster" of THE go-to starting point game like generations where for many fans. Everyone has their own version of characters that they enjoy redoing them when you can't get the old version (on modern consoles, not steam with the bundle), is criminal, in my opinion.

[@mythosinfinite6736]

​@@florntlaze810 ...I respect your statement here, on its surface, but you've completely lost me if you want to genuinely argue that people really liked _Generations Amy._ I'm sure they exist, but, man. That's... Sure something.

[@darkrhombus1077]

I will be that one and maybe only fan. I don't just like the changes. I absolutely think they are my favorite part of Sonic generations(not including Shadow generations.) I felt like the original was insulting to me as someone who started with adventure. Sonic seems to proud of his jokes, Tails always seem dumber, Knuckles was treated like a joke, Amy was too obsessed with Sonic, and Eggman was just completely over the Top. I also feel like his friends feel a little too much like cheerleaders. Also, It was trying way too hard to be "funny." In the remaster, Sonic feels like he actually cares for his friends, Tails actually sounds smart, Knuckles was better treated, Amy feels like the same character from Sonic adventure series, etc. The dialogue had some funny moments in it, but they always felt like they were taking this event seriously. I also think the references in the past games may be cheesy, but I like them. Similar to Heroes,it shows that Sonic really thinks about his friends even in hard times, even his friends that he rarely spoke to in the past games. Sonic adventure DX had weird expressions when it came to talking, so weird lip dialogue never really bothered me at all. In the final boss cutscenes, his friends actually feel more supportive and in their right characterization. Rogue censorship is a meme that I never cared for. "Where is the rest of my island?" is a funny meme that doesn't make sense. Personally, I rather have all of those problems that what the original dialogue gave me. This is just my personal opinion in the end though. I do feel happy for the people who like the original dialogue that I can't enjoy.

[@Gerbert67]

My problem with Amy is that they completely retconed her. If frontiers had an Amy character arc where she realized that crushing over sonic all the time is not ok I would be completely fine with this, but she just suddenly magically doesn't love sonic constantly.

[@SugarPunk420]

She wasn't retconned overtime as she got older she just realized how immature she was to harass sonic constantly

[@Gerbert67]

@SugarRush420 can you tell me in what game this arc happened?

[@SugarPunk420]

@@Gerbert67 I never said there was an arc for that nor do I think it was even needed, in frontiers we can clearly see that the main cast have really grown/matured and even had time to self reflect on themselves after the events in forces, and because they've matured i think its pretty clear that amy just naturally over time got rid of that crush she had over sonic, it's realistic that people can let go of their childish habits over time and the same thing has definitely happened to Amy, ever since generations we have started to see her sonic-crazy phase in games begin to slowly fade away, in my opinion we don't need an arc to show that's shes over him I feel like that's been clear for a while now, like seriously name one game after generations were she was obsessing or even harassing sonic.

[@AerinstadasChronicler]

SA1 had this

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Other people argue her main character trait is just *”Tarot Cards”*

[@McGillicuddy849]

the only thing i dont like is the reference to the time stones, doesnt feel natural. the time stones also werent what let sonic travel through time

[@kingnutbuster4978]

Oh no sonic mentioned something from his past😢 I swear toxic sonic fans are so annoying

[@BronzeAgePepper]

stop enabling Ian Flynn's enabling Sonic fans' 'member berry addiction

[@elinator8889]

oh boy can’t wait for every interaction and conversation to become a nothing conversation referencing a past event instead of getting more insights on the characters

[@Mike14264]

​@@elinator8889 that's a snowball fallacy, and now you know 👍

[@FloridaManProductions]

​@@elinator8889 this is a PAST game. Not a NEW game. What you said is completely stupid

[@snintendog]

​@@Mike14264already happening. Frontier and forces were Ian Flynn games and they both were all member berries

[@TheCuboneSwordsman]

I’d argue that the remastering of Amy’s character is a vast improvement…she used to be very annoying but now she’s a lot more tolerable.

[@riripi4]

The problem with Amy now is that she isn't 110% anymore she's more 50% when it comes to her emotions. I prefer her old characterization because of it because it was a lot more entertaining to watch a hyperactive fan girl than a stoic woman who feels the need to say she's not a damsel in distress anymore. How about instead of saying it you follow Sonic's example (at least from before) where actions speak louder than words. You would thin Amy would be incredibly frustrated in frontiers for not being able to do anything but she just acts so damn stoic. Comparing Frontiers Amy to murder of the sonic the hedgehog Amy is like night and day. I still would like it if she crushes over sonic personally but at least keep her personality the same don't make her so boring. The change to her character didn't even really happen over time naturally either. Her love for sonic just kind of stopped without a good explanation. The smash bits sonic and shadow series had a better explanation for why Amy stopped liking sonic and that's supposed to be a parody for Christ sake.

[@thenightwriter619]

This, so much this. I would like if they didn't tone down her crush (I mean, maybe don't push it as far as 06, sure, but she was fine in most of the games before and after) but that's really just a symptom of a bigger problem. If they wanna tone down the crush, Boom Amy and TMoStH shows how that could have worked without completely changing her personality. I see so many people claim "oh the only thing they changed was her intensity" or even saying her crush on Sonic was literally her only personality trait, but that's just not true. She was feisty, passionate, energetic, and yeah, a bit violent, in a comic-cartoony way. Some of that's still there to an extent, sure, but by and large this stoic, mother hen type girl that has to constantly state how she's strong and capable just. Isn't the same character. If people like this Amy, more power to them, I don't. I just hate this narrative that "she hasn't changed, she's just grown." No. Growth isn't getting ship-of-theseus'd into a different thing.

[@Winder_Storm]

Someone who understands Amy 🥹

[@UnrealNeoBat]

I personally hated how Amy was potrayed back then it she felt like a groupie to a boy band or the majority of Anime Girls who simp over the main male character. It's hard to look past her deeds while she was behaving like that. Though I do understand giving her an arc on how she shows restraint on her feelings towards Sonic.

[@FloridaManProductions]

Ppl do realize she had a character arc in Forces that warranted her development as a more serious character. The IDW comics proves this. She LITERALLY had to set aside a lot of her personal goals and stuff to fight AN ACTUAL WAR I swear sonic fans are the most intelligent yet retarded people in the planet...

[@guiteshima]

That's what i've been saying! I don't care if her crush on Sonic gets toned down a little and she learns to respect his space a little more (or if that happens gradually throughout the games, that'd be nice). I just want her to have the fire and passion that she once had. They just kept the sympathetic/compassionate (which yes, is different from passionate) and kind parts of her personality and threw away everything else. They could've given us a more balanced and nuanced version of the Amy we knew and loved... But they didn't... Which is weird because in the comics and even in TMoSTH they managed to give us EXACTLY THAT.

[@mrbubbles6468]

I hate the fact that as a result of changing the script the voices are also changed. It does not sound right.

[@glowdonk]

I kinda wish they atleast changed up the cutscenes so the dialogue didn't feel like they were rushed to make it fit the cutscene

[@phantomstrider]

Personally I really like the dialog changes. Originally I ended up skipping some of the old generations dialog because it felt too cringe. But now I quite enjoy it 🙂The only dialog change I miss is Tails saying "that pink water makes me nervous for some reason" because of how many people drowned on that part of the stage originally 😄 It's a cute meta joke. But no big loss. The game is still too expensive for me so it was nice to get your take on the changes and learn whats causing all this division I'm hearing about 😄

[@Exeternal_Beyonder_Of_Doomsday]

Yeah and now When we have Knuckles talking with Sonic he says "Where is my island?" While the animation never changes It looks funny as hell like he ate Angel Island It's so stupid lol

[@kowalski_yukio]

imo amy being overly obsessive towards sonic didn't diminish her character at all. I'd argue that it makes moments with her helping other characters stand out more, especially when she goes against sonic since he's the one she'd throw away the world for but she knows to correct sonic when he's wrong

[@inktea256]

I get why they want Rouge to be less overtly sensual, but it’s as if Sega is convinced that’s all there is to her personality. As a kid, her outfit never bothered me. Yeah, I thought she was pretty and understood how her making boys feel “in love” could help her get what she wants, but this definitely feels like a case of unnecessary censorship out of fear of the kinds of people they aren’t marketing to. Kids aren’t going to be doing weird things to a picture of Rouge just because her top allows her wings to properly stretch. Then again, in today’s messed up world, maybe they will. And that’s the saddest part of it. We can’t have attractive women in wholesome children’s media because their minds have long been exposed to things they shouldn’t.

[@mr.selyumor5402]

The weirdest part is that these changes are ONLY in the English script. Makes me wonder what’s the deal on the American side of things. Also I think we’re putting too much agency on Ian Flynn, I don’t buy that he has the power to alter characterisation or designs - I’m pretty sure it was an executive decision based on some bogus focus test or market research or another.

[@FDKeroks]

I'm personally in the "I don't mind changes, but don't pretend it didn't happend" camp. What annoys me the most about this "Oh, it was just a phase" approach to Amy, is that this way Amy was robed of character growth where she could realize that her obsesion actualy alienates Sonic from her, so she tones it down so she can spend more time with him.(or something like that) Not to mention, that way, both the SonAmy camp and the "Amys obsetsion is anoying" camp can win.

[@mr.selyumor5402]

It’s odd because the IDW comics actually kinda tried to bridge that gap

[@FDKeroks]

@mr.selyumor5402 When?

[@Exeternal_Beyonder_Of_Doomsday]

​@@FDKeroks Exellent question I wanna know too😊

[@joshuataylor7443]

People have an issue with censorship in general man

[@seacliff217]

This. I can understand being against the changes in principle while still acknowledging that it doesn't majorly effect the game.

[@mesacboy7939]

It's a game about a talking hedgehogs for kids i think you guys need to get a grip

[@joshuataylor7443]

@ you making people look like there weird for talking about changes they don’t like.

[@joshuataylor7443]

@@seacliff217 True, but I think people have a right to be upset about it, if was going to far like death threats than I have a problem with it.

[@ahsanvirk130]

Agreed, its been more rampant regarding japanese games but games like LOUS 2 get away with it due to Soyny's hypocritical double standards

[@retrocar7761]

I like the changes, they give a new twist on an already brilliant game, a big improvement is modern Sonic actually speaks when he saves each friend, instead of just staying silent.

[@kirotalksyt]

Yeah it was cool to get Modern Sonic’s comments on each character

[@Stickboy321Go]

And instead of being a jerk to Amy. I know he didn’t show any reaction to the cupcakes but it’s likely he didn’t notice of course

[@xnortheast1106]

​@@Stickboy321GoHe wasn't being a jerk in the og game stop crying kid

[@Unknown_User174]

⁠@@xnortheast1106Well Amy has been annoying Sonic and has been acting like a Stalking fangirl in the past, But Sonic and Amy like each other now.

[@xnortheast1106]

@@Unknown_User174 That's what I'm saying they shouldn't have to retcon the development

[@KibethSE]

I do hope that the modding community restores the original content in the cutscenes

[@Peepimus]

Classic Sonic eating Angel Island’s the new best unintentionally humorous thing.

[@jamesmcbayot]

10:35 true if you want to move forward with new stuff fine but covering up your mistake is not the way to go your a business regardless what you do you'll be viewed in a bad way

[@sonicmaster047]

Its not controversial. Its people whining. The Game is nothing but a straight upgrade over the original.

[@sebastienholmes548]

For people saying we're blowing the censorship out of proportion. Think of boiling the frog, letting any kind of censorship slide mean publishers will increase the censorship.

[@heyyoumewtwo4801]

You don't know what censorship is. You're a manchild if you think changing Amy's bio or giving Rouge two more inches of fabric is censorship. Also it's definitely not "censorship" since you can still legally purchase the original game on Steam with the original content intact, with no legal or governmental bodies halting users from buying it.

[@Living_In_Paradise]

You're blowing it out of proportion

[@PolarPhantom]

That's not true. The frog jumps out of the pot regardless. It was a myth made up by some douchebag. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZisoZeLh5l0mZY Anyway, here you go.

[@Danielss250]

@@PolarPhantom And does this video you sent achieve exactly?

[@mr.selyumor5402]

Yeah, it’s a matter of principle, not quantity. You let the American staff get too cozy ‘fixing’ whatever they want and you end up with 4kids and funimation.

[@butchebk01]

The main issue i have with the change to amy in generations is that it come at the expense of sonics character. For example the opening scene where amy is trying to hug sonic and sonic is holding her at arms length while he is talking being changed to a scene that looks like she is trying to get his attention to give him some cupcakes and he is ignoring her. Later on there is a scene where amy talks about being able to flirt with sonic after being rescued and sonic replies this isnt really the time for that in an exasperated voice. the new scene has amy talking about looking forward to being able to help sonic but does not change sonics response. this changes the tone of both scenes from sonic being exasperated to him being a jerk.

[@thevarietypacksnaxx405]

O wow the sonic fan that wrote the script referenced events in the past, thereby making the modern era feel more connected to the series as a whole. And they gave amy self respect. Yep the sonic fans are definitely gonna hate that one

[@Shendapy]

Ignore the fat joke being removed I guess. No one complained about these before… so it says many words seeing it changed randomly. These companies hire ppl who look for stuff that might be controversial. Same boat as those DEI people. Then when said company adjusts.. they just look for even more stuff to change. So they can validate their ‘work’

[@yourself1210]

@@Shendapyyou do realize knuckles line would’ve been changed regardless of it was a fat joke or not

[@flaminginferno6641]

​@@Shendapyit says nothing beyond being a simple fat joke that doesn't matter, if a fat joke being removed makes you start spewing about DEI and controversial decisions then you are very sensitive person who needs to get over yourself.

[@king_poyo64]

It’s especially stupid considering that’s the entire point of the game.

[@Neoniq41]

@@Shendapy The line changes are arguably not even related to DEI tho

[@Mr.Pacario]

Amy was always of the old anime trope of being that over hyperactive, temperamental girl who overdoes her responses when antagonized, scandalized, or annoyed. Happens with Bulma in DBZ, the Love Hina characters, even some in Tenchi Muyo. It's who Amy is...not sure why a change is even necessary.

[@FlipSide2025]

1:59 THEY DIDNT EVEN TRY WITH THE LIP SYNC LMAO 😭

[@fishnim1927]

I want everyone to remember this going forward with the hedgehog Engine two era You can't have a controversy Without being able to converse Not every controversy when it comes to sonic is a bad controversy, It might just be a conversation.

[@fishnim1927]

P.S. lowkey want to get pinned LOL also I'm not saying your (creator) usage of the word is bad or was wrong I just wanted to point that out to everyone because we sonic fans tend to argue about controversies rather than converse

[@soraiiro_]

I don't think the Sonic Fanbase is only decisive, but more split. There are old fans, new fans, and... weird fans... 💀

[@ivoneo2806]

Ok anyone on the Internet is like that

[@Stickboy321Go]

I’m just an old and new fan.

[@ferro_drip189]

I’m an old fan, and these new fans are just FUCKING STUPID

[@snintendog]

The weird fans are the ones that like all the Ian Flynn crap

[@ivoneo2806]

@snintendog not really?

[@TheWaterHashira3]

We're traveling through Time and Space! 1:26 was much better

[@sarah-ht7lh]

Yeah. New one just sounds a bit flat.

[@extremmefan7305]

I would HOPE Sonic and Tails "remember" Green Hill, given how casually they know the place in Forces afterwards. Same for Chemical Plant. '>_> (And if anything, I appreciate pointing out the ORIGINAL LOCATION of Green Hill, because again Forces acted like every-goddamn-where was Green Hill as long as it was a uncivilized grassy area somewhere out there. Again likewise for Chemical Plant but it's every single time it was some kind of factory) As for Amy, I prefer the remastered version, although I do agree the original Knuckles slap could've still been fitted in as slapstick comedy (even if I'm fine with the remastered version because I think the SFX they used for it is funny. XD). I personally think Amy in Generations was way, WAY too over-the-top, like this was Heroes Amy all over again even though in Heroes she was basically putting a façade to jokingly act tough in front of Sonic like that one gag in SA2 when she frees him from the prison in Metal Harbor, while here I got no such vibe and instead it just made her seem entirely *obsessed* (about as much as the atrocious "girl talk" scene between her and Elise in 06; ugh). I prefer her trying to be "overly sweet" with cupcakes (that, knowing she likes sweets, she probably made herself) to try to win Sonic over, it shows she has an understanding (albeit an incomplete one at this point in time) of Sonic's liking for personal space, instead of her bordering on a parasite always requiring a hug. (Also I think she still tries to hug him beforehand, so the point is moot anyways? Like, she tries, sees it doesn't work, thinks maybe a different approach will work instead. I think that's a bit more valid than her trying to cling onto him like a goddamn magnet)

[@Leonkennedy19992]

People are really down bad for a bat

[@Robospy1]

You better believe it

[@vOrbZv]

I think you mean down “bat”

[@Rush_E-money]

@@vOrbZv “ba-dum tss”

[@carlosbleu7396]

It remind me all stupid controversies with Lola in Space Jam 2.

[@deusherbert-noel2424]

@@vOrbZv Terrible.

[@JoSephGD]

It's just weird... especially when Generations is the reason that these locations became as frequently used as they are. The current "meta era" of Sonic was planted in Generations... but considering this was the first time many of these locations were being revisited, it would make sense for Sonic and Tails's memories of Green Hill and Chemical Plant to be foggy at best. Now, 13 years later, when these locations keep being reused, it makes sense for them to completely understand where they are. That's why it feels so weird for them to already know all this stuff and reference these things like they were yesterday.

[@TheSwordsman100]

While Chemical Plant wasn't reused (Tails should still remember because first adventure and born on Westside) Green Hill and South Island was, it's just that they weren't actively reused in the main series outside SA2. Both the Game Gear games and GBA have you go back to both South Island and even Green Hill. (among other places like Angel Island) Though with Green Hill they did at least try some variations despite the manual saying it's the same place in the Game Gear games. (like Ivo turning the place into metal)

[@Arexion5293]

Since it was brought up, I'mma focus on it: Changing Rouge's design actually says a lot more about those looking at the design than the design itself. As it was before it was fine, while changing it means people are bothered by there being any level of revealed cleavage and back, meaning they're stating they get thoughts about it and are bothered by those thoughts instead of just not caring in the first place about some cartoon bat. Or they're bothered by other people getting thoughts about it and they don't want that either, which as well raises the question of why do you care about someone else's imagination? And if the idea is that this is somehow inappropriate for kids to see, it's just cleavage, women have those. Do you need to protect kids from seeing women? Do you need to prevent kids from ever going to swimming places? Either way the response to the design is what says a whole lot more about people than the design itself, because as the design was there was no issue. It's rarely about the design and more about the response to the design itself. And about the main topic of the new dialogue: While some of the references make sense, at times the dialogue ends up way more dry because of it. Tails commenting about the water in Chemical Plant is a reference to people struggling in the water sections of those levels. So maybe it could've been changed to make him comment about how could he ever forget that weird water of the Chemical Plant or something. That way both the reference and the joke remain intact.

[@florntlaze810]

Exactly, it also makes no sense to censor it because it was already a CHILDREN'S game. What does that say about the fans it was already considered child friendly in 2011, so what exactly changed between then and now. All they did was make Rouge's wings make no sense for her clothes and remove her cleavage that kids should be too young to even find sexual in the first place; have they ever visited a pool when they were younger, I sure did it was never considered weird. People complained about 4kids censorship within Sonic X (anime) for the same character. But for some reason, they all support similar censorship now. Did Sonic fans lose their backbone? Recency bias? What happened? Tl;Dr: Games used to rely on childhood innocents. Now, they try to account for adults finding sexual gratification for non sexual things, thus censoring the game Rouge's UPPER!!! back (not even her lower back, smh). For example: it was already certified as a kids game in 2011, and it wasn't rated T for Teen. So what exactly changed between then and now?

[@Hewasnumber1]

And on top of that Rouge is meant to be sexy (for an anthropomorphic cartoon bat). It’s a fundamental character trait: she flirts, she teases, she’s… not a femme fatale exactly, but she’s something similar. In SA2 she flirts with and teases Knuckles, and one of his stage themes outright say she’s sexy. It’s an intentional part of her character, and it’s disrespectful to take it away. I love Rouge, and the censorship does more than just ruin a few gooners’ day.

[@DearMink_X]

The worst reference is the time stones because you don't even use the time stones to travel in CD, you use the sign posts.

[@LeeMagik]

But the time stones also let you jump through time, thats why they were referenced

[@Drydoctor-qo5wt]

No, you do, the sign posts were just a game mechanic. The time stones are what allowed it

[@hypVideo]

T_T

[@luan5226]

In canon lore they allow time travel

[@mysticmonogatari]

this reference already felt off and out of place but I find this reference even weirder because logically you'd think he'd reference needing the chaos emeralds to time travel. I guess sega doesn't want to acknowledge the emeralds can also time travel...

[@TheSonicSpider]

That’s it, I’m not playing the sonic part I’m only gonna play the shadow part of the game 😡😡😡😡

[@Chris_dose_stuff]

I think it’s fine I personally like how Sonic doesn’t shove his hand into Amy’s face

[@Sprinklespark08]

I didn't notice any changes because I never played the original Generations.

[@ShiroganeABA]

Ruined childhood

[@FireBladesGameing]

Sucks to be you then.

[@throwaway7679]

Hope you enjoy it!

[@TheSwordsman100]

Honestly you aren't missing anything, while it was the best of the Meta Era that was a low bar and the remake is a vast improvement over it's terrible writing.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Congrats on not having any nostalgia for the original, it’s a hell of a drug man…

[@_rando_d]

My main issue with Amy is that it's not like they stopped making Amy loving Sonic her biggest personality trait. They straight up removed it. It wouldve been better if it was just simmered down rather than completely removed. The only thing remotely remembering her old self is NPC dialogue after you save her, but those werent changed in the remaster so it doesnt count. Amy loving Sonic was an important part of her and can be fun if its not overdone. Also, these are cartoon/anime hedgehogs, Amy slapping knuckles into a tree is just a quick gag that shouldnt have been taken so seriously. If anything it makes Amy loom WEAKER.

[@End_Productions]

Like yeah that's the thing. We don't want Generations Amy back we want Adventure Amy back

[@marnic0004]

The slapping in the og made knuckles look weaker.

[@_rando_d]

@@marnic0004 no it didnt lol, it was just a silly cartoon gag

[@marnic0004]

@@_rando_d Before sonic generations, there was barely any cartoon gags in the games. All of this funny "cartoon" stuff in the 2010s sonic games was because of the writers. This isn't mario.

[@_rando_d]

@marnic0004 dude, this is still a kids series. Even the most serious Sonic games had their fair share of gags and jokes, and they go play the riders' games.

[@GarryLarryBarry]

Tails went to Green Hill in the events of Sonic Mania, which would be in the past for that Tails.

[@extremmefan7305]

alternatively, there's the 8-bit version of Sonic 2. Or, iirc, Sonic Chaos also taking place on South Island. (And given Fang made a comeback in Superstars, Triple Trouble has to be canon, and thus Sonic Chaos too by extension) Either way, Tails has to know Green Hill at least before Forces, given that game acts like every single area of greenery "in the world" is Green Hill.

[@KperaOfficial]

There's also a fan theory that sonic and co went to so many places before that they basically forget some zones, which would explain why they didn't remember the zones in generations since most of the entire series happens in like, less than a year (just a thing we saw in a podcast with Ian flynn but these podcast aren't considered canon so whatever)

[@WohaoG]

@@extremmefan7305 Everything is canon* *except for sonic chronicles according to the encyclo-speed-ia

[@extremmefan7305]

@@WohaoG That's just a fancy way of saying "we just pick and choose what we need to, or can, reuse from previous games for the new one". :P (aka it's more like "everything can be canon [except Archie and Chronicles because we don't want to deal with THAT guy again]")

[@Waltman13]

I'm mixed on the cutscene changes. There's some that I actually like, and then there's some that make me question what the point was in even changing it.

[@Kezunten]

I kinda like the change made to the Amy and Knuckles interaction. While I do agree that Amy is a strong character, so is Knuckles. It does not make sense that Amy can easily knock over Knuckles barely trying. If she used her hammer, that might have been a different story, but this interaction made Knuckles seem weak and clumsy.

[@Hewasnumber1]

Or that he wasn’t expecting to be flung by Amy. It’s like if someone shoved you without warning, you’d probably be sent tumbling, but if you knew it was coming beforehand you’ll be able to keep your balance.

[@Kezunten]

@mysticdigital5936 I am very aware, but I don't like 18+ games. They are too focused on violence, horror, sex, etc. I instead like a family friendly game, which is optimistic and has an in-depth story. Like SA 1 and 2. Most fans are in fact not children but adults, so they are more likely to be invested in the story. And I'm not saying this out of nostalgia, I have only gotten into Sonic since late 2021 or early 2022.

[@xulnad]

In Sonic Generations they seemed to of removed Right There Ride On from Sonic Rush from the collectable music list And replaced it with Westopolis

[@glacierwolf2155]

I think that Ian Flynn addressed the "Classic Sonic eating Angel Island" issue. Apparently, he could only rewrite the dialogue, the people in charge of the animations couldn't reanimate the models.

[@triledink]

Changing amy from what it was to what it is now to portray how she acts nowadays in the modern games is bad since generations came out like 13 years ago. Sega acts like its the first time generations got released. You can't just change the past like that.

[@extremmefan7305]

When the past was so goddamn ridiculous about it? Yea, no, I'll take the change, thanks. Maybe a "legacy cutscenes" option would've been nice, but Amy in og Gens's cutscenes borders on insufferable imo, and that's saying something considering how few screentime most of the cast gets in this game.

[@yay29823]

People were unhappy about Knuckles being disrespected, but now that they changed that, people are complaining because you can't change bad things to be good, apparently??? If something is of such little significance such as Generation's story, nothing is lost by rewriting it

[@Mr.Pacario]

I agree; a remaster is not supposed to retcon, it's supposed to allow a new generation to enjoy an old game that they missed the first time around. Now there are two competing versions of a game that will only stir controversy and confusion for years to come. If the integrity of these old games can't be respected, it's best to not revisit them at all.

[@Mr.Pacario]

@@yay29823 Well, the point is that, if they are of such little significance, then just leave them alone. Remasters are not meant to change characters and storylines, they're just supposed to be passive updates to allow newbies to enjoy an old game.

[@florntlaze810]

​​​@yay29823 Nobody was complaining about Knuckles being disrespected, you wanna know why? It was because he never was in 2011. Nobody considered him dumb at the release of generations (2011) him being disrespected wasn't even a thing for fans to worry about at the time. The closest you could get out of the fandom was when Knuckles couldn't catch the card thrown at him in a Sonic 06 cutscene because of his glove hands. The fans started to say he was disrespected in 2014 with the announcement and release of Sonic Boom, which reduced him to nothing but a big dumb muscle headed brute. So this is future retconning for no legitimate reason and should have never been changed (the tree cutscene with Amy). My opinion on Amy is that she shouldn't get future character development for a game that canonically takes place in the past before SAID character development arc happened in the first place; otherwise it completely invalidates the point of the arc to happen in the first place for a game that released at a future point (Sonic Frontiers).

[@miniwhiffy3465]

Weirdest thing I’ve seen is someone getting upset about Knuckles not getting launched a few meters into a tree after getting pushed by Amy, like the dude tanks super sonic charging around without moving.

[@epsilon_psilon]

Amy's character growth in Frontiers was so good, but going back to Generations and erasing her obsessive past kinda undoes how impactful it was. Like, why bother trying to have genuine character growth if they're just going to retcon away the thing the character is supposed to be growing out of?

[@Winder_Storm]

What character growth and in frontiers ? They pretend like none of her past happened 💀

[@extremmefan7305]

I personally think that's because og Gens already took it too far in the first place, itself essentially undoing her growth from Adventure 1. Meanwhile this attempts to still portray her as liking Sonic a lot, but just not *obsessively* so. This feels more like the same Amy who got so excited to see Sonic again she merely mistook Shadow/Silver for him in SA2/06, instead of the CD Amy who would tacklehug Sonic at *every* opportunity no matter how few the moments she last saw him ago were.

[@ivoneo2806]

​@@Winder_Stormwell people can move from their past

[@Stickboy321Go]

@@extremmefan7305exactly, the changes are still there. In CD she was obsessive and she changed later on canonically. It just works like that and it wouldn’t make sense for it to go to obsessive to love but not obsessive but to obsessive again

[@Hewasnumber1]

@@extremmefan7305I feel like people misunderstand Amy’s character arc in SA1. It isn’t about her outgrowing her love for Sonic, it’s about her realizing that she isn’t a damsel in distress; that she can stand up for herself and have adventures on her own. It’s about her realizing she doesn’t need Sonic to save her or have adventures, not about her moving past her love for him. And at no point in any of the games after that point does she contradict her character growth in SA1. She’s more proactive, she’s more involved, and she doesn’t need Sonic to save her all the time (except for when Eggman has a glock to her head).

[@Cameron_Levine]

I honestly didn't care about most of the changes. The whole Amy thing does "kind of" bother me in the sense that she shouldn't be acting like this because she was still in her "yandere" phase that she didn't grow out of until sometime after this game. I think it should have stayed the same, though I actually like her more as how she is now. She isn't an obsessed fangirl anymore, she has her own personality. She really used to feel like just the girl of the group but now she feels like her own person and can hold her own in the cast. The Knuckles line was changed I think due to him not supposed to be a joke character anymore, so we instead of the writers we should blame the animation department. They should have changed and updated the animations to better fit the game. The Knuckles scene where he's hit by Amy was changed I think for the same reason. Knuckles isn't supposed to be a joke. My only real complaint with the game having the animations being choppy, and therefore the VA work sounds off due to them having to speed up their dialogue to match it. It is very noticeable in certain cutscenes. (also the Voice Direction Colleen got for Charmy was horrible. It does not sound good anymore. I kind of get it so its more distinct from Tails but it sounds so bad. Colleen is still fantastic as Tails, just not Charmy.) Overall the Sonic part of the game isn't what the whole game is about, it is mainly Shadow's game in all honesty because all my problems with the Sonic campaign disappear with Shadow's. Only complaint there would be I wanted it to be longer.

[@Crump-I6x]

Knuckles getting hit into a tree once doesn't make him a joke, it makes a funny moment showing off Amy's true strength

[@Cameron_Levine]

@@Crump-I6x I agree, I thought it was funny. I’m just saying I can see why the writers may have seen it that way

[@End_Productions]

Amy is not a "yandere," and the fact that people call her that makes me upset

[@Cameron_Levine]

@@End_Productions I put it in quotes because she wasn’t a full yandere but she had yandere qualities. Like being overly obsessed with Sonic and being a stalker in a sense. I don’t think she was the typical yandere, i .e. being a killer, but she was very stalkerish. I could have probably worded it better to put my point across better, or I could have explained it like I did here.

[@End_Productions]

@Cameron_Levine "being a stalker" dude they're friends. I don't think Sonic would've kept her around his birthday party if he thought she was some random stalker. Stalker also implies that she's always on his back when you gotta realize that at least before The Meta Era Sonic and his friends would go a good while without seeing each other. Why do you think they say "Long Time No See?" And since she actually loves him and hasn't seen him for a good while it makes sense that she would be excited to see him

[@GraysonicYT]

The change of Amy not hitting knuckles all the way into the tree kinda comes off sexist like saying she can’t be strong when she is supposed to be

[@alptugraakan7490]

Hell naw bruh.Its like bulma sending piccolo flying which is something IMPOSSIBLE

[@GraysonicYT]

@@alptugraakan7490 this is a video game franchise with a hedgehog that can run at the speed of sound

[@marnic0004]

​@@GraysonicYTThis is a video game franchise where sonic literally goes to san francisco. You're telling me there can't be SOME realism?

[@nightspawnson-of-luna4936]

You know @GraysonicYT, anytime someone draws attention to the shattering of gender norms, it ultimately undermines the idea of gender equality as a whole, by implying this is the exception and not the status quo...

[@Nanashi20]

for frontiers, lots of the references seem like lore-related things, or out-side of the story, aside from the ones mentioned within the actual story. The eggman memos? lore things, Sonic mentioning them on his own as some lone monologue? basically the same as memos but actively. for generations, the slight changes are both good and bad, sonic talking? good, them remembering the past? good the knuckles, talk change, the amy not being pushed back or not hitting knuckles hard enough for the comedy, rouge's censorship. The fact you mention the good qualities of amy just shows that she was fine as she was, people hyper focus on her simping over sonic, and forgo the fact that when she has to take a stand, she would, there are literally many characters that are a certain way in general, and act differently towards a character, amy is that. She will be obnoxiously trying to get sonic to like her but when something happens and she has to be more serious she would be. She is the Brock of the crew, just a faithful one towards one character.

[@SugarPunk420]

Amy wasn't really "retconned" or "censored" here, i feel like they simply changed it because they wanted her to be nicer to sonic on his b-day instead of harassing him, but it is undeniable that her character has infact changed over time but that's supposed to happen, frontiers has showed us these are not the same main cast we've known for years, they've changed/matured and because they've matured clearly there going to let go of their childish habits and in this case its Amy's obsessive love for sonic, her character as of right now is fine the way it is, she is still as loving and caring as she's always been she's just less sonic crazy and i personally think thats a great change to her character because it shows shes matured, but obviously that's just my opinion.

[@kenonerboy]

Matured to what exactly? Amy in recent games is all talk. She hasnt done shit thats admirable compared to old amy. Her overt love for sonic was part of her, but not her only trait.

[@kindasomeviews]

Fanboys/Fangirls: "Keep characters the same! You gave us these characters the way they've been for years SO DONT CHANGE THEM!!!" Sega: "Ok let's take away character traits." Fanboys/Fangirls: "NOOOO!!!!!!!" Me: "...Why not add to their character in a meaningful way? We dont even have new Sonic stages"

[@Hyp3rSonic]

I definitely prefer the OG version. However, I don't mind the rewrite

[@oscarangel2989]

I see that Sega still doesn't know how to explain Classic and Modern co-existence. They re-retconned that they are the same character on different time periods. I remember that Tails on Forces said that "other universe Sonic" or something like that.

[@extremmefan7305]

I'd chalk that up to your typical Forces fluke, personally. (There's a lot of those)

[@michaeltaylor788]

The recon of them being from different worlds was the result of a mistranslation of the word world because in Japanese the word world can also refer to the past and present and even future so the people who speak a different language messed up when they wrote the story the creator of sonic ( who is Japanese ) just fixed this mistake .

[@Avriel_Mimiga]

my biggest issue is that the 3ds specific levels weren't included, at least we got pinball for free

[@sonicmaiden2871]

Glad I can finally experience the pinball DLC ngl.

[@anaveragegamer359]

Pc had it free forever

[@sonicmaiden2871]

@@anaveragegamer359 oh! So it was included with the game for free since launch in the Pc version?

[@GoldLight73]

I think some of the changes were fine, but others felt excessive. The story of Generations asa whole still feels a bit lacking though.

[@kirotalksyt]

That’s fair

[@Mike14264]

Honestly, if they tried to change the story into something more substantial, I don't doubt folks would complain about "unnecessary changes to what's only supposed to be a silly thing", "not everything needs to be a deep narrative", and "not faithful to the original that I loved", even tho almost everyone complained about the lacking story back then.

[@GoldLight73]

@@Mike14264 See, people often like to complain that the Sonic fanbase is fickle and impossible to please, but the thing is: the Sonic fanbase isn't a hive mind. Everyone wants/expects something different from this series. Some people (like myself) love it when Sonic gets to be more complex. We love it when the franchise gets to take itself at least somewhat seriously and the characters are allowed to have depth. On the opposite side, you have people who don't want Sonic to be complicated; the crowd that thinks this cartoon hedgehog taking on dark gods and reality-destroying threats is ridiculous. This is the crowd that prefers the franchise having minimal or no story like the older games. The fact is that the Sonic fandom has been split for decades, and trying to appease one side almost inevitably winds up pissing off the other. That's why people end up complaining no matter what Sega does; it's not hypocrisy, just different people having different tastes.

[@Mike14264]

@@GoldLight73 yeah, exactly, there's so many different people in the fandom, it's impossible to please everyone. Heck, they tried that with Forces, and we know how well that went.

[@wootmasterzorsx]

I’m in a camp that likes some of the changes, and doesn’t mind others but does feel they didn’t need to be changed. I definitely agree I find the references charming, since it does make the world feel more cohesive and like these adventures still, you know, actually happened. Rather than being some one off thing nobody ever talks about. And I do prefer Amy’s new writing, since the crush is still there, but now she feels like she’s had character development and her crush is less obsessive. Like, those cupcakes she holds for him are pink and blue- and if you need to know why that’s relevant… look at Amy and Sonic’s fur. Or how her changed dialogue with Classic Sonic has her say she’s always found Sonic cute. She doesn’t need a bright neon sign advertising she’s in love with him, though I should be clear, they could probably strike a better balance for people who like that side of Amy.

[@Vintagesonic1]

I think Amy being so obsessive over Sonic is actually a core part of her character. Sure she's weird, but that's the whole point. I think toning things down just serves to strip Amy from her core personality traits.

[@felixdaniels37]

Precisely. To her, Sonic is just as much a figure to look up to and a goal to strive towards, as much as an object of affection. Her crush on Sonic pushes her FAR beyond her natural limits, and allows her inherently heroic spirit to shine through when it matters most. The video goes on about liking Amy when she wasn't a Sonic simp, but you genuinely can't have one over the other.

[@Living_In_Paradise]

Nah

[@Iilhip]

​@@felixdaniels37 So true, like ofc someone who never understood or cared about her minds the changes...they never liked her full self in the first place

[@Hyp3rSonic]

BASED

[@crashybandicoot0136]

Probably because it was kinda unhealthy being obsessed with Sonic in the first place. Strange world we live in.

[@muffetmissulena6540]

4:35, bold of you to assume us Sonic fans have friends.

[@AvariceAgent]

Yes, Amy's incredibly strong, she even lifts a gigantic hammer in the idw comics with the help of Silver, but he says that she did most of the heavy lifting. She can push people in to walls, but not Knuckles. It makes no sense for this to happen, when he's as strong as he is, even with his gaurd down.

[@YophiSmith]

Your content about Amy is refreshing. My favorite version of Amy is Sonic Boom Amy (Of the TV show). They took the worst parts of the characters and dialed them up to 11, but with Amy, the obsession with Sonic was nonexistent, and she was a NORMAL girlfriend (Even to the point of them denying feelings for each other but getting jealous of other love interests). So Sega dialing back her obsession, especially in Frontiers, was great character development to me.

[@marce4092]

all this "controversy" would be fixed if shadow gens was a separate game you could buy 💀

[@GiroEXE]

No I feel like that would cause more controversy

[@marce4092]

​@@GiroEXE yeah... maybe there would be no other way around it lol

[@emeraldwind4897]

True, That would be perfect if i could just buy the shadow generations part. But no... it would be less profit for them to just have shadow generations, so they just add a bunch unnecessary GB's to accommodate the price.

[@Freedmoon44]

The controversy would then be that Shadow Generation is too short to be its own game alone. Thing is, it didnt need more, its Shadow he doesnt have nearly as much history in the universe to get adventures and bosses from, unless he fought Sonic a few times which would get repetitive, or old Shadow the Hedgehog bosses which would be repetitive for the same reason (as if they didnt already repeat often enough in 05

[@marjosonic]

The rewrites were generally fine in my book, but it sucks that they put little to any effort to updating the cutscenes to reflect those changes (namely anything involving Amy and the implication that Classic Sonic ate Angel Island). Had proper changes been made, they wouldn't have stood out as much (aside from us deep Sonic fans, but there's no helping that anymore xD). One aspect I think the rewrites did that I think was for the better was the Eggmen speech before the final fight. While Eggman having a bit of selfishness against himself was a bit funny, making it so that they were more comrades made more sense during the initial standoff, while keeping their bickering once stuck in White Space (since that's still very in character) intact.

[@icy3583]

Knuckles' line being unchanged implies something... interesting, and really a sign that something more should've been changed for that new dialogue to work properly

[@thereel1_real]

10:40 I like the changes made, but some of the lip sync and animations should’ve been updated to reflect the changes Side note: I prefer knuckles not being banana slammed into a tree, but the original feels like meme material

[@Nidstang_]

My issues come down to: Censorship is bad, period. I dont care if its small. Nothing in the original Generations was offensive. Literally NOBODY was offended by anything in these games. Its a E rated game. And we've reached the point where we are censoring E rated content. Its pathetic, unnecessary, and unwanted. And two: Amy has NO character now. You can argue her entire character used to be nothing more than Sonic obsession and fangirling, but it was character. Now, she has NOTHING going for her. No personality, nothing memorable about her. She's just... there.

[@supergamerboy1177]

First off you an idiot Rouge was not censored like really It’s The same design as her sonic battle Design Second of all, Amy does have a character You certainly do not pay attention all like really you sir are an idiot like really Censorship In generations does not exist at all And if you do think it does you sir Do not understand the word at all

[@supergamerboy1177]

First off There’s no such thing as Censorship In sonic generations like I wonder if you People have paying attention to the game like really Do I have to remind you of blaze Remembering Crisis city Even though that makes no sense at all Second of all, all of time is being destroyed And the characters are making jokes about it Is really idiotic and dumb like also Amy In sonic X shadow generations Dose have a Character Which you refuse to pay attention To the game at all like really People complain about censorship Which Does not exist in the game itself Will complain and whine about it also Knuckles Cares about his island More than sonic own Appearance like really dude piss Off with your BS Censorship stance Knowing That’s the game designers’s own choice And not so Weird bogeyman Conspiracy

[@ahh3310]

​@@supergamerboy1177 First off, you claim there’s “no censorship” in Sonic Generations. Really? Then please explain Rouge’s redesigned outfit, toned down for absolutely no reason other than some bizarre need to appease a non-existent offended audience. Her character has been nerfed visually to the point of looking like a discount knockoff. And it’s not just Generations-Rouge’s entire design has been sanitized game after game, sacrificing her original charm to the censorship police. Second, Blaze’s Crisis City memory? Yeah, it’s there, but you know what it doesn’t do? Add anything coherent. It’s not an argument against censorship; it’s lazy storytelling. If anything, it’s proof the writers had to be selective with which parts of the Sonic lore they even bothered to make sense of. So, try again. And your take on Amy’s character? You’re seriously trying to argue that Amy has depth here? She's been reduced to a hollow echo of her former self. Sure, she wasn’t breaking new ground as Sonic’s number one fangirl, but at least she had an identifiable personality back then. Now, she’s been relegated to background status with a personality as dynamic as a loading screen. Amy used to be memorable, and now she’s practically an NPC. As for Knuckles, congratulations on pointing out his loyalty to Angel Island-a fact we all know. It’s literally his only shtick at this point, reduced to a single-trait character whose personality was way more nuanced back in the day. But go ahead, pretend that caring about a rock 24/7 makes him complex while Sonic’s entire design is getting scrubbed down to avoid offending absolutely nobody. Lastly, that nonsense about it being the “designers’ choice”-this isn’t about some imagined “bogeyman conspiracy.” This is about a series that has continually watered itself down, robbing fans of the Sonic they actually want to see. Just because the designers signed off on it doesn’t make it right or, frankly, a good decision. So let’s wrap this up: The censorship is real, the characters have been reduced to half of their former selves, and it’s not the fans whining-it’s the developers, once again, not respecting the audience or the original designs that made Sonic legendary in the first place.

[@crashybandicoot0136]

Imagine being pissed off over Amy no longer being a stalker anymore. That's crazy

[@crashybandicoot0136]

Also, if you want to talk about watered down versions of Sonic characters, may I remind you that Sonic Forces exist?

[@knighterrors3208]

My opinion on the changes for me personally, generations was my favorite sonic game as a kid. I played it over, and over, and over, yet playing the new generations remaster, i did not notice most of the dialog or cutscene changes, i feel like most of the issues people have with the changes are based on the fact that changes were made in the first place

[@setsers1]

At first I didn't like the changes, now I'm more mellow to it. But holy crap, this spread like wildfire.

[@DrCocofruit]

4:15 I agree, especially with how so many elements are one offs and it can be difficult to tell what's theain canon and what isn't when focusing on just the games only, cus who has time to dive into every kind of media and know if something is a side story or a mainline story? Hearing Sonic mention Jet makes me glad cus I like Team Babylon but wasn't sure if they were considered mainline canon (even though they had multiple games) since they never appeared outside of Riders, nor does their lore appear in other media unless you take similarities to make a theory and multiple hypotheticals. But they're just that: ruminations of the plausible with no concrete evidence to falsify them

[@CharlesShow]

4:30 No. Most sonic fans don’t have friends.

[@vrboi2162]

I didn’t like how sega changed Amy’s obsession with Sonic. Before frontiers, Amy used to chase Sonic to get him to love her, but now I’m the remaster, they made her less obsessive. Only because they thought that this generation of youngsters would find that “too inappropriate.”

[@ThunderTheYellowJolteon]

It's not inappropriate. It's because of Amy's writing from Forces and Lost World.

[@XX-sp3tt]

It's like 4Kids has been reborn before our eyes.

[@TeeArCreep]

tragedy, the bat's boobs are less visible. you've got an internet connection, you don't need a game to see those mate.

[@leopoldmaximus145]

I haven't played generations or frontiers yet, but I did really like it when I found out Sticks (my favorite Sonic Boom character) got referenced in Frontiers

[@vi6ddarkking]

For those saying the Censorship didn't matter. (And remember. the slippery slope isn't a falacy. It's a rule.) All I have to ask is: Which way Sonic fan? The Sonic X Sub or the 4Kids Dub?

[@PolarityOfNeoSoulCity]

The Sonic X Sub every day, but not for the sake of seeing Rouge uncensored (I was interested in seeing what was cut, and seeing the cut content made me feel that much more invested, like the Molly event, the uncut fight with Yellow Zelkova, Shadow needing to remove his limiters to fight Knuckles, etc.). I'm not that pressed about her being more covered up (especially after Sonic Prime's outfit, this feels a little less egregious), but I do understand where you're coming from about it and hope that the design's aren't altered any further

[@vi6ddarkking]

@@PolarityOfNeoSoulCity Give an inch they'll take a mile. Also her uncensored mods are already out.

[@PolarityOfNeoSoulCity]

@@vi6ddarkking Oh yeah, I saw them all alongside the somehow almost as divisive skating boost mods

[@Pyrodiac]

...Oh I don't watch TV Shows.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Remember when people made fun of the Rouge Censorship in Sonic X? Now some are actually defending it in SXSG and I find it hilarious lol

[@CaptBlock]

I love that the game was so good that the best thing people had to argue about was some slightly modified dialogue and a model update on a side character.