Kit E110: A Big Problem with Power

[@rogerdemoss484]

Good work guys!

[@SailingSVLynx]

Thank you!

[@KCTroyer]

Hey, I know viewers are here for the sailboat, but you’ve written science fiction books and it be nice to hear about one every couple weeks just for like 30 seconds to hear the synopsis so that your viewers can purchase some. You are very talented!

[@SailingSVLynx]

Sure, I'll talk about that a bit, but people are here for the boat building :) I'll give you a taste right now. zONE: The End and the Beginning, is a Science Fiction novel I wrote. it follows a man who wakes up in a goop hospital, where people can have their bodies changed to whatever they like... except for the brain. That's illegal, since the government decided that your brain pattern is who you are. But the hero thinks he has had an illegal brain alteration, and soon finds that the Zombies are after him. They aren't real zombies... they are the current police force that transfer their minds into the bodies of convicted criminals and use their bodies while on duty. There... I've barely scratched the surface of zONE... you should read, or listen to it. I created an audio play of the novel, using a whole bunch of voice actors playing all the parts. You can find both on Amazon, just search on Philip Blood zONE

[@charlesc.6767]

Im gladd you keep the volunteers coming in to keep the progress going while your working out the design and engineering issues, seems like alot of boat projects almost come to a stop and get really boring when they dont bring in volunteers. You keep it interesting , Best build on youtube.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Thanks, we appreciate that!

[@barriegilchrist8950]

Some great work this week, Loving this build, you are all extremely hard working old guys 😂

[@SailingSVLynx]

Yes we are, at least the old part ;)

[@augwest101]

For your weight distribution , what about what mono hull race boats use are balsat tanks of water where you add or remove water as needed maybe use sea water ?

[@SailingSVLynx]

We are, but not sea water. We'll just use our two watermakers to make fresh water as needed, then it is also useful.

[@haydenwatson7987]

Good progress this week and I agree, it would cause more problems than it solves to move the batteries forward. Have you considered moving the dive compressor forward but then running an airline back to a refilling station where you want it?

[@SailingSVLynx]

Yes, that's what we will do if we move the compressor forward.

[@vernonboley1035]

Have you considered a seperate battery for the windlass for weight up front

[@SailingSVLynx]

The reason we don't want to do that is we need to use all current battery power for propulsion. Adding a separate additional battery would add weight to the boat and we are already near the max load carrying capacity for this cat.

[@dnomyarnostaw]

Crazy thought - how about some salt water ballast in the tanks between the Diesel, or even further forward. Just pump seawater in as required. You might find it useful as ballast in heavy weather.

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

I was thinking similar as that's what offshore trawlers do ..they carry fuel on the way out and water and fish on the way back. The other idea ...more of a long shot is to use a flexible bladder tank inside a rigid plastic tank and use water to displace fuel burnt from the same compartment. 🤔.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Catamarans aren't a displacement style hull like a Trawler of Monohull sailing vessel. These boats need to be kept light, within their Load Carrying Capacity. We can't just add weight, we have to shift what is already on board to balance the boat.

[@dnomyarnostaw]

@SailingSVLynx True, IF you exceed certain weights, that is undesrable ., but IF you can't make as much fresh water to reach "operational optimum" in time, a fast desalination can make say 120 litres an hour, IF there are no mechanical reasons or filter problems. Scenario, low freshwater, low diesel, low supplies, so almost " lightship loading," with a rapidly approaching storm on the beam. Scenario 2 : tied off on the mangroves, waiting for a hurricane, harbour water too foul to desalinate. Then , being able to pump 300 kilos of ballast saltwater on board, even to each hull, may be useful. A good compromise for these outside chance events may be to prepare 2 or 3 unused compartments to store water and install a deck fill to them if the need ever arose. Don't thank me, I'm always happy to complicate a designers, operators sleepless night terrors 😀

[@SailingSVLynx]

@@dnomyarnostaw True, but if we had that kind of emergency, we could always pump water into one or two of our four water tanks, then clean them out later. Let's hope that is never necessary.

[@robw2379]

First off.... nice progress, and good catch on the issue with the power transmission vs. weight. My first thought on the balance issue is that it would be best to balance static loads with other static loads. Batteries and motors don't change weight during a passage, whereas water and diesel will. If you add another water tank somewhere that you plan on keeping full most of the time, then you are essentially just carrying extra ballast. I would move the dive compressor first, and then other static items.... tool and equipment storage, etc. Plus, the dive compressor will be noisy, but only ever used when the boat is on the hook and the crew is up and ready to explore. Ideally, the static items should be in balance, and the live load should be close to the center of gravity and/or be able to be trimmed. One other benefit of having the heavy, static loads towards the front and back: increases the rotational inertia and the boat will be more stable through the waves. Good luck.

[@SailingSVLynx]

I agree with everything you said... except we have already moved every static weight item forward, with exception of the dive compressor. Unfortunately, it only weighs 200 lbs. The batteries we moved back weigh 600 lbs. We must make up that 400 pound difference. So, we'll have to do it with liquids as there isn't anything else on board that is heavy enough and can be moved.

[@robw2379]

@@SailingSVLynx Could you split off a portion of the battery bank.... some portion that could be serviced with a cable? If not, you could invite along two friends that each weigh 200lbs (or one very heavy friend) and have them sleep in the chain locker while underway? 😁

[@SailingSVLynx]

@@robw2379 LOL! Well, we already plan to put the heavy guests in the forward cabins! Especially my two nephews, who are going to be 6'10" or so. As for splitting the battery bank, it's not a good idea. We need to keep all the cables about the same length as we assemble the separate batteries into a bank.

[@gonesilent2814]

To get an idea of the weight, I don't recall what it was for your battery packs? Did you work out the victron/bms problems?

[@SailingSVLynx]

600 pounds of batteries.

[@williammcrae3177]

Could you not create a ballast tank to hold seawater up front where you said you could move your dive compressor?

[@SailingSVLynx]

Yes, but seawater doesn't help us much other than as ballast. More fresh water is better as it is useful if we need it to live off of in an emergency.

[@williammcrae3177]

@ i was of the impression that you already had enough fresh water storage. I was simply suggesting if you needed extra weight up in the bow that a ballast compartment might be created useful and could be used if needed.

[@SailingSVLynx]

@@williammcrae3177 Ballast adds weight to the boat and if we exceed the Load Carrying Capacity, it will affect performance. We are already close to that limit, so, we need to shift weight, not add more.

[@williammcrae3177]

@@SailingSVLynx got you

[@LadyDewBuild]

I'm not sure about how the tanks will end up, for instance will the water tanks have bladders or just sealed fiber glass bulkheads. It is generally not advisable to have water on one side of a bulkhead and diesel on the other side of the bulkhead unless one or both are also in bladders. A very small pin hole developing would ruin all of the drinking water on that tank and make for a time consuming cleaning of that tank before it could be used again.

[@SailingSVLynx]

True, but in our current plan we are separating water and diesel tanks with an empty compartment between them.

[@alonzothompson4221]

add ballast tanks in the front ... add or drain as needed to keep boat balanced ... would that work

[@SailingSVLynx]

That's what we are doing, just with fresh water. We will have two watermakers, so we can make about 64 gallons an hour.

[@alonzothompson4221]

@SailingSVLynx that's what I was thinking too... fresh water ballast tanks ... no problems with growth and less maintenance on valves

[@andypandy955]

I checked out Goiot it's about 110 kms from my home in France.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Cool! Stop by and say hi to the Goiot team from Captain Blood when you go by some day.

[@MichaelFazio25]

I’ve never seen you reference plans. Does the manufacturer supply plans and a build manual? How do you know the order of build and layup schedules etc.?

[@SailingSVLynx]

There are a good set of plans, then a 'how to' document, plus a 3D model of the boat in many layers. But, they don't supply a order of build or schedule. It's something I complained about. I call it a 'Design Guide'. I used to create design guides in a different industry for multimillion dollar projects. In my opinion they are essential. However, on the plus side, Schionning gives you support via online meetings, as many as you request. In these meetings, they advise you on what to build and how, so you can get some of that guidance from them. Still, we do a lot of that planning ourselves by what makes sense for us to build at any given time.

[@sailinglakeclark]

Your deck fill wrenches, arwnt they the same as your winch handles? Hard to see in the video,but they look similar to ours which are. Even with electric winches you will want a spare handle or two. So no need to store the short wrenches just for deck fill?

[@SailingSVLynx]

They don't weigh much, but I get your point.

[@ctown6971]

What about just using permanent weight plates for your balancing issue, and you can leave everything the way it was originally designed?

[@dnomyarnostaw]

@@ctown6971 Thst defeats the whole lightweight multihull concept.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Yeah, we have to keep below the Load Carrying Capacity of the boat to preserve performance.

[@PAINFOOL13]

👍🏻👏👏👏

[@wrobelda]

Just wondering if your engines and batteries of choice are 12V or 48V? And if the former, wouldn't it make sense to change to 48V and thus lower the requirement for bus-bars max amperage?

[@SailingSVLynx]

Our batteries are 48v :)

[@justusmead]

I'm not sure what's available but couldn't you put a bladder in the diesel tank that you can fill with water as you use the diesel and then drain back out when you refill? that way you can put the diesel anywhere for balance.

[@SailingSVLynx]

We could, but it adds cost and complexity. We have decided to go with a larger water tank forward that can be filled with fresh water to offset the weight. We already needed freshwater tanks and it adds the weight forward, so it takes less to offset the diesel loss.

[@paulstephens5229]

As a counterbalance to the weight could you not carry extra anchor chain and maybe a heavier anchor thereby removing the problem of using your usable commodities ie diesel and water.

[@SailingSVLynx]

We are carrying an extra anchor for when we need to deploy a stern anchor, but it will be stored forward. The problem with adding extra chain is that we would be adding additional weight to the boat, and exceed the rated load carrying capacity.

[@andypandy955]

I think now we are understanding the amount of planning and research you have both done. I only have a little boat and it has taken me some time to find deck fittings and rigging to my taste so how long did it take for you both to decide on your fittings? I have got to say I like your chose of black. Are they anodised? Are you having to pay import taxes too? not a great fan of these taxes it is the same in France and it is causing some businesses to go under too. Anyway enough of the doom and gloom loving the build and also your work ethic. Keep it up and thanks for sharing.

[@SailingSVLynx]

You're welcome, Andy. It has taken a lot of planning and research. I started working on this concept 15 or so years ago. It didn't take too long. Goiot was recommended by the Schionning team and we checked them out and liked what we saw. Then we had meetings with representatives at Goiot, who agreed to sponsor our build. Then it was just a matter of choosing which items from Goiot, which colors, etc. Yes, the aluminum parts are anodized. The import taxes were a pain, about $2,000 on a $30,000 order.

[@Michael-cx5qf]

Been following your channel pretty much right from the beginning, so many thanks for all the effort you all put in. As I am from the metric world I am also very grateful that you translate imperial for the rest of us. Just a little suggestion to that. Like for imperial, you don’t really need to show decimals for centigrade temperatures unless you are talking high levels of accuracy. Again, thanks for all, and keep on pushing to get your dream on the water.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Our pleasure!

[@_mysilentblue2227]

No hard labor no heavy lifting... did he not understand who he was talking to? Either way take it to the limit but not beyond. Great progress.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Yep, he just doesn't know me. :)

[@tonyfromaus7855]

Agree with batteries in original spot. More busbar would be undesirable. If you need dynamic balancing by making water (because you used the forward diesel fuel) then Murphys law says the water maker fails when the sea conditions are big or too much sargasso or something else that buggers the plan. Meanwhile a following sea and the stern heavy boat is wallowing. Or maybe the trim condition may not make too much of a bad effect even during that situation. So… Some of your gear and food stored will be heavy…. is there any way you can plan a forward storage for tinned goods (or some other gear that is mostly only board). Another thing might be to arrange somehow the ability to temporary move anchor or chain forward. Maybe for instance you can flake chain onto the trampoline to move its’ weight forward in those temporary unusual circs when you’ve used that reserve diesel. Or hang the anchor forward if it’s usually back?? Can’t remember how you are doing that. Back like a Leopard or forward like a monohull? Anyway.. good luck with it and much admiration from me for your hard work and skills.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Well, we are planning on having two water makers to cut down on Murphy's involvement. However, even if both are down, and there is no wind to sail, and the ocean is rough, burning up 500 pounds of diesel isn't going to make us widely off balance. The effect will be minimal. So, why worry about it at all? Because, even minimal effects performance so why not keep the boat well trimmed when we can? As for food and other weight, we are moving that as far forward is possible (especially the heavy stuff).

[@kalex381]

Instead of moving the tanks, can’t you just add some dummy weight in a front compartment to balance the weight of the batteries? In this way you could have the batteries close to the bus bars, the tanks in the middle and some offset weight at the front?

[@SailingSVLynx]

That would increase the weight of the boat, and we can't exceed the Load Carrying Capacity or we effect the sailing performance of the boat. The answer is to move existing weight to balance.

[@kalex381]

@@SailingSVLynx thanks for your response, could you use that space to store spare boat parts like third rudder or things like life raft, spare outboard, etc..that you may be planning to have stored elsewhere ? Or it’s not practical ?

[@SailingSVLynx]

@@kalex381 Absolutely, and we plan to do just that, but we already calculated all that and need even more weight off the stern.

[@frankstocker5475]

Why did they put stitches what's wrong with epoxy?

[@SailingSVLynx]

Well... they did use super glue :)

[@johnhewett2525]

Two things I will comment on, #1 I will not be invited to sail with you as I weigh 220lbs and my weight will destroy the balance of the boat. #2 When fitting the battens that panels will sit on, cut the face side where you are using screws at say 30deg's. This makes tabbing much easier and saves time and epoxy as fillets are not required.

[@SailingSVLynx]

The whole weight thing is just about starting with the boat balanced, small changes to weight distribution during the voyage won't matter that much. We just don't want to start out with 1,000 pounds too heavy on one end. As for the supports, I was thinking about that too. If I switched to wood, then I'd agree to cut them. But being foam with fiberglass sides, I didn't want to cut off half the fiberglass and only have the foam for support. The two fiberglass layers are joined by pillars of resin that go through the foam.

[@johnhewett2525]

@@SailingSVLynx The strength is not in the core but in how the boat is glassed together, good tabbing and the correct use of f/g orientation.

[@SailingSVLynx]

@@johnhewett2525 Mostly true, though the core does have its roll as well, otherwise, we would just use cardboard. ;)

[@fredbecker607]

I have never worked with boats, but in aircraft, the ideal was to put changing weights dlosest to the cg. That would be fuel and pilot mostly. Your problem is that there are so many different things that change weight. People, food, fuel, water,etc. Make a person appreciate marine engineering. Did i miss? Are you putting any type of electrical generation than diesels?

[@SailingSVLynx]

Yes, we have 5kw of solar panels on the roof, and our electric motors are designed for regeneration from sailing (wind pushes the boat, the passing water turns the props, and that turns the electric motors for regen.) But we will only use regen if the wind is blowing strongly, it slows you down too much in light air conditions.

[@davidnonya7359]

the cabron wings for the mast support already got glued in? must have missed that. or are my eyes deceiving me and they are still just flapping around?

[@SailingSVLynx]

They were glued in, but not tabbed. We have now added carbon fiber tabbing to add strength to the bond. I think we show that in next week's video.

[@ronkluwe4875]

Don't know if you have already thought of it, but highly recommend you add both horizontal and vertical baffles in the forward large water tanks if you are going to sail with them partially full. Slack tanks cause all sorts of issues in heavy sea conditions and it is best to control water movement in the tanks as much as possible. The only other issue I see is you are now spreading the weight out over the length of the boat instead of centralizing it and this may affect the boats performance in certain sea conditions as the polar moment of inertia is now not a centralized point, but spread out. Should not be anything major, but may cause some uncomfortable pitching in certain sea conditions.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Yes, we are planning on baffles in all the tanks (water or diesel).

[@peterschouten-ys8yr]

Hi, I don't wish to criticize because you are doing great. However working in the shipbuilding industry for a long time I wish to point out that diesel and water tanks adjacent with a common bulkhead is a no no. You will need a cofferdam however small. Hope this helps your thinking. Also your weight calls should consider any tanks half full when underway for trim and performance as well as 10% remaining in all tanks. You will carry your ground table stowed when underway. This also has a huge effect on trim. Lastly, does schooling take the weight of the bend on sails into account or do they a simplified light ship calculation? Cheers Peter.

[@SailingSVLynx]

The diesel and fuel tanks are separated by a full compartment, so that won't be an issue. 🙂

[@shamtastixx5540]

Not an engineer, just a couch potato, but why not put the batteries being a fixed weight in the central part with diesel either side, and the water to the front, don't know if its a safety thing, but seems adjusting liquid levels then would be easier?

[@SailingSVLynx]

The issue is that the boat is heavy at the stern, so we need weight forward to level off the boat. Moving the water and diesel more central would make that condition worse.

[@davidantill6949]

Really looking forward to your electric outboard silution. That has been perplexing me since the problem arose

[@SailingSVLynx]

@@davidantill6949 We'll show you our new plan soon!

[@threewaters4589]

Why don’t you look at a flexi tank and use salt water to balance boat, no cost (power) in creation of fresh water, just the power to pump out. Warships use water compensated fuel tanks 😊

[@SailingSVLynx]

Several viewers have suggested this, but the answer is that adding fresh water is doubly useful as weight and as extra water supply if needed. It is also less complex since we already have the entire system in place and only need to raise the top of the tank. We haven't built the tanks yet so that's not extra work..

[@captainsensible298]

You could always move the batteries onto the bridge deck, or water, or fuel. Personally fuel in integral tanks below the water line I don't think is a good idea, having fuel tanks that can be removed and cleaned is a great advantage.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Moving the batteries onto the bridge deck doesn't solve the weight distribution problem and raises the center of effort. As for the fuel tanks, keeping all that weight low also helps the COE. Cleaning can be done through the inspection ports.

[@Mrflynlow]

Get rid of those electric motors and use diesel, also less potential fire problems with the batteries.

[@SailingSVLynx]

We have a diesel engine, and we will have house batteries no matter what anyway.

[@shaynegadsden]

LiFePo4 batteries aren't like the ones used in EV's and are pretty hard to catch fire, like punch holes through them with metal objects resistant. That isn't to say it's impossible but pretty close to it

[@SailingSVLynx]

@@shaynegadsden Which is why we went with LiFePo4 cells :) Still, even though they don't catch on fire much, they can emit a toxic gas if they are abused. We don't plan to abuse them, but we'll also keep the batteries in sealed compartment with a ventilation system to the outdoors.

[@dansegelov305]

You're getting far to fixated on weight distribution! You're worrying so much about placement of diesel tanks etc, and then you're gonna go sailing with several hundred pounds of humans moving freely around the boat. What happens on a day sail on a perfectly balanced boat if everyone wants to go sit in the cockpit? Will you have to move all your groceries out onto the tramps?

[@SailingSVLynx]

Look at it differently. If the boat is off balance to start with, say heavy at the stern, and then you move all your people back there, it gets even worse. If you are balanced to begin with, then when all the people are at the stern, you are only slightly off balance. Besides, it isn't us getting 'fixated' on the weight distribution, it is the folks at Schionning who made this kit. They want their boats to sail well, so they keep on us about where we are putting weight on board.