Nintendo VS Emulation - What Happens Next? - EP115 Kit & Krysta Podcast

[@Hugop_arts]

At around 42:00 - a little clarification: Apple didn’t allow emulators because “ not doing so” would be against the new EU laws. They could have kept them off. Allowing was a business decision because users were going to these new app stores (their existence is a consequence of the new regulation) to download emulators, which were available there since day 1. It was a business decision to give consumers less reasons to try other app stores than apple’s own, and not an enforced regulatory requirement.

[@Hugop_arts]

The Vergecast had an excellent in-depth episode about all the legality of that and the Apple decision making side of the biz, it’s a great complement to this episode focused on Nintendo’s !

[@anubisvel]

37:58 - Gotta love Kit saying “you’ve really given me a lot of stuff,” and Krysta clarifying… “It was your BIRTHDAY!” 🤣

[@The.natrix]

The Nintendo Minute video with Darren Korb was one of my favorites, so sad that it's gone (at least on the Nintendo KZbin channel) 😥 It would be awesome if you two did catch up with him and had him as a guest on your podcast!!

[@kitandkrysta]

Yeah, that was one of our favorites too - felt like such an intimate and unique look at his studio and work process.

[@natoriousthehopeful2786]

I've been waiting for Kit and Krista to talk about the whole Nintendo versus emulation topic: Surely the bigwigs at the top have to realize that emulation is not going anywhere

[@ProtossHyrdalisk]

It’s been around FOREVER, but I don’t think it will have much of an impact honestly. It’s never had much an impact in terms of sales and things…. So I never understand all of these companies crying about it.

[@withoutthejuice7193]

@@ProtossHyrdaliskidk, I had never considered emulating until Delta

[@welcometodokidokiliteratur3706]

@@ProtossHyrdalisk "Looks at TOK's sales" Yeah, it didn't impacts...

[@XanderVJ]

@@welcometodokidokiliteratur3706 BotW was as emulated as TotK from day one and it didn't affect its sales in the slightest. That's not to say emulation and piracy can't significantly affect the sales of a game, but TotK is not an example of that. It just that, as soon as the honeymoon phase ended, people realized it's just a worse game than BotW, and a prime example of bigger not being always better.

[@simoncucho]

​@@welcometodokidokiliteratur3706 That's a faux argument. People who emulate were gonna emulate anyway. People who are going to buy, will buy anyway. Emulators existing didn't *particularly* affect Tears of the Kingdom. It stands to reason that a very anticipated and popular game will also be a very popular pirated/emulated game. Who could have thought? Tit for tat. Said "statistics" were used just to drive a point so they could take legal action. In reality, you have no concrete evidence that one thing affected the other. There's no way to prove that "an emulator player is a potential buyer lost".

[@ProtossHyrdalisk]

The deck is just so stacked against the consumer at this point. We no longer have rental services for games. We no longer can play our media on our consoles whenever and wherever we want. Most discs don’t actually contain games and are just a license key for your console and account to play. I hope consumers decide to use emulators to play their games wherever and whenever they want. All of the laws in place that took rights away from consumers (like making it illegal to break encryption AKA… you can’t actually rip the dvds and movies that you own) needs to be overturned.

[@Mattriarc]

This! Most media is so dependent on the devs making them still accessible, or if you're Ubisoft revoking licenses when your old game gets a newer sequel, and you want them playing that instead **COUGH COUGH** The Crew **COUGH COUGH**

[@james441]

At this point, when you can emulate games on your iPhone (for free) that you wait years to be released on NSO (a subscription based service that costs a lot of money) - and some guys are still waiting for games like Pokemon gen 1-3 etc to be added after paying for something we don’t own, at that point I honestly don’t care who emulates old Nintendo games …. If Nintendo offered an easy way to play ALL of their older games at a good price I’d be all for it but they don’t. So it is what it is.

[@twilight2010ful]

Exactly.

[@jorgeehernandez6930]

Yeah “renting” games sucks.

[@SanjiGenial]

You will never play ALL the old games. I don't understand people who want everything. Just play what you get, we get a lot of games already. And NSO is accessible, really cheap.

[@james441]

@@SanjiGenial no il continue to emulate for free thanks. Enjoy your drip feed of obscure nes games for $50 a year tho 👍🏻👍🏻

[@SanjiGenial]

@@james441 For ~35€/year I actually get: - 72 NES games - 21 GB games - 46 MD games - 63 SNES games - 32 N64 games - 15 GBA games (they add games every month) In a very good emulation with some extra features (rumble compatibility for GBA games for example) + - Expansions for Switch games (Splatoon 2: Octo Expansion, Mario Kart 8: Booster Course Pass, Animal Crossing NH: Happy Home Paradise...) - Tetris 99 & F-Zero 99 - Online play for all Switch games - Cloud saves for Switch games - Customizable profile pic - Can buy official retro wireless controllers, nothing better for the feeling from the old days (and no, 8BitDo products are not better) - NSO App on smartphone - Free trials for games (also give you platinum points) - Some small bonuses as small free dlc to get in games such as Smash or Animal Crossing It's just my best subscription service and it's not even close. Too cheap for what you get.

[@MedalionDS9]

Kit being compared to Uncle Owen from Star Wars... I could totally see that... the non-burnt version lol

[@michaelhart4297]

“They got the sticks and they wanna swing em around” 😂🤣 LMAO.. that was hilarious! And Kit’s like ‘oh my god, Krysta’ response was classic!!

[@fernandod4046]

49:00 i loved this part

[@crobinson2624]

I’d say less then 10% of retro titles have seen a rerelease on virtual console or retail and these are 25-35 year old titles locked behind discontinued and rare physical cartridges.

[@ProtossHyrdalisk]

I remember the 4 player link to the past mod that was on PC back in the 90s…. It was amazing.

[@flarestorm9417]

50:02 People like Shadow the Hedgehog the character (he's the second most popular character in the fandom, with the first being Sonic himself), but not Shadow the Hedgehog the game. The game is generally considered terrible, and at best I've seen people claim it's either okay or a mixed bag. SEGA's mishandled the character a bunch (e.g., the Shadow game is where the "Edgy the Hedgehog" perception mainly comes from), but he's still pretty popular.

[@giantsizegeek]

On the Delta emulator: it seems to me that Nintendo should have sold their own emulator with old games long ago on the Apple/Android platforms. They left a lot of money on the table by not doing so. It would have been hugely popular.

[@purelogarithm]

They will never do that. Nintendos business is selling consoles. They only got into mobile under shareholder duress and that was during the Wii U era. They aren’t in that position today.

[@muckymucks]

The problem with that is once Nintendo sells you a game (especially on a phone) they can’t sell it to you again, which is what they prefer. They rather you buy Mario World again and again and again…. and again and again.

[@willwunsche6940]

They already do this on the Switch. Nintendo owns and develops many emulators of consoles they do and don't own the rights to then sell use of them for profit on Nintendo Switch Online. Thankfully monopolies are illegal though, so people are able to make much better and/or cheaper or free emulators on phones regardless of if Nintendo makes one or not. Been enjoying Drastic DS emulator on my phone for like a decade now as it continues to sit on the top of the Google Play Store

[@johnlucas1543]

+giantsizegeek Nintendo does not feed competitors. Nintendo will NEVER feed competitors. Whether they be direct competitors or indirect competitors. Nintendo has their OWN platform & that's where they sell their products. If you see a Nintendo game outside of their own platform, it is always a special case for a special ocassion. Nintendo's smartphone ventures were never designed to replace their console ventures. They used Mobile as an advertising feature for their own home platform. EXCLUSIVITY MATTERS no matter what you may have heard in recent years. Exclusivity is CONSOLE LAW & Nintendo is the CORE & KING of Consoles since 1985. Nintendo can make their own money. Giving it to others actually takes money OFF of their table.

[@giantsizegeek]

@@johnlucas1543 interesting. So the Mario iOS game, you think Nintendo did that to bump up the brand for a new console release? Super Mario Run debuted in Sept 2016 and the Switch was launched March 2017.

[@Kuromichi08]

LOVEEE the new merch design!! Will def have to snag something from it!!

[@Illysi]

My wife is generally not a gamer and the only games she ever plays are pokemon and animal crossing. Even she found out about the Delta emulator and asked me to install it with a few Pokemon games for her. That’s where I would consider it mainstream! If Nintendo rereleased these games as a part of their online service they could include online battles and trading which would give a reason to choose the official Nintendo release over ROMs. The whole discussion reminds me of how steam really hurt game piracy not because they cracked down on the pirates, but because they built a service that was quicker and easier than pirating games.

[@carvman217]

“Piracy is a service problem” - Gabe Newell, founder of Steam

[@thepokekid01]

I think the issue with the Pokemon Company and Mods and Palworld is that I hope they have people in that Kyoto office that understand there are differences in what they are doing. I mean, it's kind of akin to Shueisha going after Doujinshi of Shonen Jump properties to attack the piracy from Online Fanlations. These fan pokemon games can be dangerous because you don't control the fandom, but they do expand the fandom. Like I don't see Pokemon Radical Red ever discouraging a Pokemon Fan from Downloading Pokemon Fire Red or even just Pokemon Blue from Nintendo Online because to the player, they serve a different purpose. I think there is a degree you can argue that as well with ROMS as in people will download them to either live nostalgia or test a game.... but you immediately go into that controversial area: Playing Pokemon Fire Red on your Cellphone just might replace your desire to play it on the Switch later, Downloading Pokemon Scarlet to play on your spec'd up PC will also definitely affect your desire to play it on a Switch! I understand both cases, but I think they need to be more careful about what they can and should do, and really try to come up with solutions to ROMS that can answer some of the legit complaints retro gamers might have.

[@Blackbird9070]

I’m glad to see you guys discussing emulation on here. I would love it if you brought on someone who is prominent in the emulation scene like Bob Wulff or Russ from Retro Game Corps to discuss emulation more.

[@ShallBePurified]

Making Nintendo sweat is a good thing because Nintendo getting a big ego is bad for both Nintendo and Nintendo fans.

[@carvman217]

Exactly, their big ego is what led to the wii u era

[@adam145]

Hopefully human greed doesn't prevent future emulators from being developed. I always go back at least 2 generations to check out old stuff that isn't available for sale anymore unless there's a reasonable way of buying it.

[@burritobison7700]

Exactly I hope Nintendo isn’t greedy enough to take down these emulators

[@themonado5030]

It belongs to them ​@burritobison7700

[@adam145]

@@burritobison7700 Well it was all good before Yuzu developers decided it's good to run a Patreon to directly finance their operations. They literally locked new updates behind donations. It hit Citra emulator too which wasn't even in any meaningful development now.

[@mr.pedroonline]

I'm still playing Planet of Lana. Comparison to Metroid Dread is understandable, but it's definitely a much more chill and puzzle-focused game.

[@Goldmight]

I can feel the "welp, not my problem" energy from both of them regarding this topic

[@wmv8996]

Basically, it's emulation vs. paying hundreds to thousands of dollars for physical games and hardware.

[@FirstEmperor]

LOL, Nintendo Switch has a really good chance of becoming the best selling console of all time and people are unironically saying they "need to get with the times." Fortunately I don't think Nintendo is going to take business advice from YT comments.

[@cassiodvieira]

49:49 it's more about Sonic Adventure 2 than the Shadow the Hedgehog game. Us Sonic fans expect the Sonic 3 film to be more in line with Sonic Adventure 2. Imo, Sonic Adventure 2 is the GOAT 3D Sonic game.

[@chaotika693]

Kit calling Shadow "just Sonic with a gun" made me shed a lil tear ngl😂 But it's ok as I know he's not very interested in the franchise to begin with. Shadow peaked in Adventure 2 where he was still a genuinely interesting character, and that's the Shadow most fans love and want to see again. He's lore is pretty interesting too, one of the most refined from the entire series.

[@luap911]

Thinking about Nintendo's feelings about emulation and the fact that Switch emulators started to pop up only a few years into the console's lifespan made me have a thought in connection to rumors about Switch 2 having beefy performance specs. The more powerful a console is at launch typically increases the amount of time that needs to pass for a functional emulator to pop up. If emulators become a mainstream way of playing games, Nintendo may feel it is necessary to push hardware that won't be easy to emulate for a longer amount of time that they're more comfortable with.

[@leosluna]

The only observation I could do is how disconnected is most media with certain gamers they can simply afford Apple products. Meaning, emulations has been around on android like for more than 10 years in the rest of the world that doesn't consume Apple products that much. But then some folks made this a concern after being exposed in their iPhone15s?? It was an interesting conversation thou, but most people simply can't have "the winner console", some people simply can afford a Series S or else a decent phone with emulation. Keep up with your content guys! I'm not the most consistent youtuber but considering the effort I put into, I appreciate your effort!

[@Iwannarockey]

When will your spoiler cast on Chrono trigger be? Or did you already do one? I think those are a neat idea; are they on KZbin ?

[@smashdriven1640]

Don’t buy the Switch version of Europa if the final release is like the demo. Like they said the visual style is gorgeous but on Switch everything is EXTREMELY blurry. And I’m not just talking about stuff in the far distance. Even things up close to the camera and the main character are very blurry. I enjoyed the demo but looking at it for long periods of time hurt my eyes. And if you’re wondering if this is just the intended look of the game it’s not. They play the trailer at the end of the demo and the gameplay looks completely crisp and clean with no blur. I’m going to be picking this up on my steam deck instead so I don’t go blind staring at this fuzzy world.

[@AB-py6jl]

I knew it lol. I saw the trailer and was like "that is NOT a Switch game" 😂

[@theteeman]

Glad you got a new merch line Kit and Krysta! I just bought stickers speaking of which. It's unfortunate that Nintendo isn't what we thought they were compared to back then. For Nintendo vs Emulators, I think Nintendo is getting petty. They shouldn't even worry about games that are over 10 years old. It's not their priority anymore. It feels better when you don't have to spend a lot of money for an old game and have it emulated instead since you can do whatever you like with it on an emulator for many games. I like what Apple had in mind for Delta Emulator.

[@Sheekago]

Kit and Krista are you going to be making their own vault for your DS and 3DS collection?

[@awest3749]

As mentioned in this video, they need to make more games available on their Online + Expansion service. Here's a long-winded example of why I recently emulated: Long-time Nintendo fan but Metroid is an IP I've never played. I bought Dread recently. Absolutely LOVED it! Watched Arlo's video on getting into the Metroid Series. This was my plan for playing the 2D games: 1. Metroid Zero Mission: via NSO + 2. Metroid AM2R via Steamdeck - since the GB Return of Samus apparently has not aged well. 3. Super Metroid via NSO 4. Metriod Fushion via NSO + I've only had NSO and not the + (expansion pack) for GBA so i was gpnna upgrade to have access to Zero Mission and Fusion. Turns out Zero Mission isnt even on there. Meaning I would have to emulate one of their GBA titles regardless. Thus, I've turned to emulating both Zero Mission and Fusion on Steamdeck instead of upgradting my NSO service. Just make your games available on a service you've established!

[@c1ask0]

Loving the Muimui love!

[@johnlucas1543]

You REALLY don't think Nintendo can handle these emulators on a competitor's device? If they can pull Dolphin off of Steam as a paid service, they can do the same to Apple with Delta. Emulation can & will continue but it won't be as simple as downloading an app from Apple. A lot of people are about to find out that Nintendo will be the last one standing here in this videogame industry. They will outlast all competitors in the Console Realm & then be faced with the 2 PC Markets-Desktop/Laptop & Tablet. The reason they will outlast all of them is because Nintendo is the only one out of Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Google who can develop/publish games, sell physical games for full price upfront indefinitely, & has their own hardware platform to sell them. Not only that but has been able to do this on 2 devices at once simultaneously generation after generation. With Sony, you have one who develops/publishes games but not nearly in the volume of Nintendo's 1st Party power, sells physical games but drops the price fairly quickly, has a hardware platform that has painted itself into a corner on graphics & horsepower. Sony tried to keep 2 concurrent platforms running but quit after the 2nd attempt by dropping PlayStation Vita. With Microsoft, you have one who develops/publishes games but can't even manage Sony's output much less Nintendo's, sells physical games but drops the price fairly quickly as well as undercuts sales potential with Gamepass & such, has a hardware platform that is almost irrelevant as they slowly but surely shift into a full 3rd Party publisher. Microsoft never even tried to uphold 2 platforms at once in consoles. With Apple, you have one who doesn't develop or publish games but exists only as a storefront, doesn't sell physical games & can't sell upfront on price depending on freemium, has a hardware platform to sell games but is not fully focused on games. Apple never made 2 concurrent devices with anything resembling Nintendo's Twin Dragon strategy. With Google, you have one who doesn't develop or publish games but exists only as a storefront, doesn't sell physical games & can't sell upfront on price depending on freemium, has a hardware platform to sell games but is not fully focused on games. Google never made 2 concurrent platforms with anything resembling Nintendo's Twin Dragon strategy. So all competition in the gaming space against Nintendo is missing some element or another. You see all the hype about Revenue but Revenue by itself means nothing if not paired with Unit Sales and/or Profit. That's why Sega, a Console Game maker, was able to buy Rovio, a Mobile Game maker last year. Mobile is full of hype. The ubiquitousness of smartphones in the world will give you massive revenue by default. But how many people of the billions of people who use smartphones actually spend money on Mobile games? 3% of 4 billion people is 120 million people. Still a lot of people but it shows how little you need to make big revenue. Mobile can't get people to pay upfront & that's a weakness & that always will be a weakness of Mobile Gaming. Apple don't know how to make games. Google don't know how to make games. They're entirely 3rd Party dependent. The nature of Tablet PC AKA Smartphones as a jack-of-all-trades device won't let it change in form to introduce new types of gaming so the platform will eventually run into stagnancy with samey-samey games being made on it. Like ALL PCs do, they start trying to use the clout of the Consoles to push their prominence. Nintendo is the Core of Consoles since 1985 with NES in America. Nintendo is the Master of Consoles. So of course, Apple is doing this to poke a stick at Nintendo. But Apple won't win this war against an actual game maker. Nintendo has no fear of Apple. They defied the Smartphone Revolution with a 3DS having $35 to $40 games on it. They survived Smartphones & now Switch does the impossible in this industry at a $60 price point. If Apple wants the smoke, Nintendo will give it to them. Nintendo won't make it easy for Delta to be on the App Store.

[@HaruVibes_]

Awesome to see Stealth on the show. One of the OGs and a real one.

[@DragonQuarter]

Echoing what MrAndypong said about Nintendo's emulation. I feel like Nintendo has had since the Wii's launch to really improve the retro games service. There were some small improvements (and setbacks) on 3DS/Wii U with adding save state functionality and custom button configuration, but oddly they take steps back on NSO by not even allowing custom controller configuration. There are still things that PC/Mobile emulators can do that NSO cannot, and I feel like unless they get more serious and make a retro emulator that beats out this homebrew competition, they'll never make it truly better than those free offerings. Unlimited save states, multiple display options (1X/2X/3X/4X/5X, scanlines, etc.), speed-up button, etc. In terms of the Delta emulator, Nintendo could also do what Sony did in 1999/2000 with Connectix Corp. creating a PS1 emulator on Mac/PC; buy them out and shut the project down immediately after.

[@paperluigi6132]

Regarding that last one, didn’t Nin do that with a porno once? … Nintendo has a huge cash reserve. They could easily take some of it, buy out all major emulation sites, and then shut em all down.

[@paparick6234]

You mentioned using backups of your own games is fine, it's actually not. It's legal to back up your games as long as you don't circumvent copyright. You can keep the file as a backup, but by law you can't do anything with that file. Using it on an emulator or rom cart makes it illegal. What you can do is download roms that are public domain only. Anything other than that is basically illegal. But then again, most people don't listen to any of that lol.

[@carvman217]

This is not entirely true, as per the DMCA: “Reverse engineering (section 1201(f)). This exception permits circumvention, and the development of technological means for such circumvention, by a person who has lawfully obtained a right to use a copy of a computer program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing elements of the program necessary to achieve interoperability with other programs, to the extent that such acts are permitted under copyright law.” Essentially, if a rom is copied for backup (which is legal like you said and according to the DMCA), then the access of that rom copy is permitted under the exception that the rom is reverse engineered for interoperability between it and another program , i.e. an emulator. Which makes sense as well since how would someone even begin to enforce prohibition from rom use on an emulator as it is a local operation (no distribution to monitor like downloads)?

[@paparick6234]

@@carvman217 what emulator reverse engineers a game!? An emulator acts like a console and reads the the rom that it's given. It's like inserting the game into a console. The console doesn't reverse engineer a game, so why and how could an emulator? Also on the subject of legalities, the law has "software" and "video games" as separate items. Even Nintendo's lawyers argue that videos games and software are not the same thing, so that whole thing you wrote up there wouldn't hold up. It's what video game preservation organizations are still having a challenge with when preserving games. Someone should try to get that legal distinction settled (that a video game is software), but no one has the time or money for that (except Nintendo).

[@chrisjohnson9542]

You guys need to interview retro rick on the game store stuff.

[@MaisieSqueak]

Companies are going to have to make their systems enticing, their game prices lower and their DLC/Loot Boxes/Games as a service... less. They spend WAY too much on producing games anyway. The industry will "crash" and big money will walk away from it... but we'll still get new games because TALENT wants to make them... we will be JUST FINE.

[@theforgottenmovies3265]

I like emulators and other ways to play games. Emulators can help gamers to play games with English translation and that is good. I heard about the new emulator to iPhone, but I live in Sweden and we can’t download it here. Another good thing is if your game is broken. For a time ago my The Sims disc to PC get broken so I’m happy I can download it from internet and play it without my disc.

[@CoolpherDisney]

Does anybody have the link for the Europa game?

[@kingbladerZed]

It is a losing battle for emulators.

[@Music-bf4te]

Didn't know you had a consulting business! 😮 Super cool!! 😄

[@StarzGecko]

Best idea i would give Nintendo is releasing a cart with all the current or at least finished NSO games for Switch so that if in the future when the Switch is put to rest there is carts to play the retro games on the Switch or later hardware.

[@pokepress]

On a somewhat related note, Apple and Nintendo do get compared a lot as companies. Think you could track down some former Apple employees and compare notes?

[@ericsmith2122]

What does it mean for someone to be their Final Boss? They mention this towards the end of the video.

[@kitandkrysta]

That is one of our Patreon subscriber tiers. That one is extra-cool because it's limited to a single person!

[@RachelDavis705]

You should link your merch in the video description

[@andykerwi]

People saying emulation doesn't impact sales. It must. You can't look at the impacted sales numbers and say they're not impacted.

[@Bri-by5xc]

when your twitter mutual is the guest on one of your fav podcasts: that's oomf 😭

[@anubisvel]

While I don’t imagine Nintendo is interested, I think they’d be far better off releasing their own retro game emulators on iOS and Android and providing an avenue for buying digital game licenses to play via those first-party apps. The offerings on the Switch via the Nintendo Switch Online apps are lacking significantly. If they’d like to keep people on the Switch and Switch successor, they need to beef up those NSO libraries significantly.

[@ggnorekthx]

I completely understand the issues with Switch emulation. There is actual damage to the company happening there. Once you get a gen or two back, and the games cannot be purchased new any longer, I don't see the issue and believe in preserving the old content. Especially in the digital era where an eshop going offline means thousands of games disappear for good.

[@DougyFreshGames]

Nintendo waited too long, got the Mother 3 English translation on my phone now lol.

[@wdviolet8434]

I’ve spent thousands on physical Switch games. If I want to rip my cartridges and play on different hardware, then Nintendo should absolutely not be able to stop me, that’s just ridiculous. of course they would like to stop me, but why should we let them? a car could be used for illegal purposes and legal ones, so should we ban cars? On the legal question, there is absolutely no muddies where it comes to piracy. Piracy is illegal. unlicensed distribution of games you don’t own the rights to is illegal. Emulation is not.

[@donnydudzinski2019]

i had similar feelings about the demos from the Direct. Europa’s visuals intrigued me, but the demo turned me off of it. Cat Quest 3 demo was great. I will try out Anton Blast now after your recommendation.

[@bloodofredmoon]

Similar to how we all downloaded music illegally off of Napster and LimeWire in the early 2000s, we will all emulate Nintendo's older games until they make them easily accessible to us.

[@cassiodvieira]

What Nintendo should do is come out with a retro Pokemon game collection!

[@Shades14236]

Back in the days it was cool to hate Shadow, especially among the very vocal oldheads who couldn't evolve into 3D gameplay and just wanted Sonic to 'go back to it's Sonic 1 roots' and 'get rid of all of these friends NOBODY cares about', which lead to Shadow's game getting treated a little harsher than it deserved. That and the reception to Sonic 06 meaning to Sonic Team, 'we need to get rid of every other playable character and start making 2D games/sections again' Now that those people moved on, we're allowed to lose our minds over the fact Shadow was sighted on a motorcycle in a behind closed doors trailer for Sonic 3, and I'll get at least 75% less negative reception for saying I would really love to see Shadow grab a pistol or something in Sonic 3, if only for a moment, because Shadow with guns was always fine and cool. Right now the main discourse is over the fact Shadow 2005 was the last time he was really written right, and not only do the current writers have weird ideas on Shadow's character, but Sega also may or may not be putting restrictions on said writers, making things harder all around.

[@KodaiMasuku]

Yay I'm so happy for Fruleo!

[@JorgitoInSpace]

Shadow's backstory is sad. It involves a child, (SPOILERS FROM A 20-YEAR-OLD GAME) his only friend getting shot at.

[@jackbarnhart4661]

Essay alert but here we go. This won’t spur them in the slightest but I really wish this would send the message to Nintendo that they need to adapt to the times. To make it clear that I’ve been a fan of their games for a long time, and they were one of first console-focused companies to make their legacy content available for download back in the Wii era. But times have changed and Nintendo has taken steps backwards in that time instead of forwards. I know they don’t think of the NSO as a step backwards but in terms of sheer accessibility metrics and diversity of content it absolutely is. Not to mention the imbalance of what could be considered “must haves” between the home-market version of NSO and what we get overseas. For a company that’s considered the most profitable business in it’s country of origin, the fact that they haven’t bothered to invest in localizing even some of their 1st-party Japan-only NSO offerings is pretty disappointing on top of all that. Meanwhile Sony, while no saints, have started porting some of even their recent tentpole games from current-to-last gen to the PC market. SquareEnix has done the same with much of their legacy content (both games and music) as well, bringing much of it to both mobile and PC in the past few years. The reality is times are changing and wider availability, even if just for accessibility and profit over actual preservation, is becoming a greater focus across the industry. I get that Nintendo loves their walled garden, I get that they love having everything in one place on their consoles. But their excuses, what few they have, are only going to get weaker as time marches on.

[@MedalionDS9]

Nintendo will have to kick rocks if they are trying to get Apple to take Delta or any other emulators down on the App Store... Emulators are legal, point blank, end of story. What you do with it, and how you use it may not be, but the program in of itself, you cannot just forbid.

[@adam145]

Apple probably wouldn't allow them unless their lawyers looked hard into every aspect. As long as there's no money involved in emulation, Nintendo doesn't really care.

[@willwunsche6940]

All the emulators have been on the Google Play Store for like a decade now at the top of the app list, I doubt they would ask Apple to do anything as it's not like there's anything wrong with the apps, they are great

[@willwunsche6940]

​@@adam145 And even with that paid emulators and paid emulation devices are perfectly fine too. Nintendo has lost when they go after those too. It's more when they feel threatened by piracy on new modern titles

[@MedalionDS9]

@@willwunsche6940 The difference is the iPhone is the market leader for smartphones

[@WhyYouWahYoo]

Okay, 2 things. One, on Kits Shadow questions: Shadow is a somewhat controversial Sonic character. He kinda represents the cheesily edgy aspect that some fans aren’t big fans of, and he’s a pretty shallow character, so a lot of people don’t like him. However there are a lot of fans that grew up with games like Adventure 2 and Heroes that like him a lot despite the bad game (most people agree the game is bad). I’m in the second camp. Two, about the main episode topic: Emulation has a few mentalities surrounding it that frustrate me; “games are just ROMs” is such a dangerous mentality for this medium. There’s also sort of a “one size fits all” mentality there. Like, the feeling and form factor of playing DS games on a DS is so much better than on a PC or a Phone. Not enough people understand that anymore. That said I use it often for specific games that are expensive, I’m not fully against it or anything. Besides, I really don’t think Nintendo can do much… THIS time. NEXT time (if there is a next time), I think they’re paranoid enough to nip this stuff in the bud expeditiously.

[@natoriousthehopeful2786]

A lot of people don't like Shadow the hedgehog? Most gamers I interact with absolutely love him and call him their favorite in the franchise

[@milesfernando]

"Shadow is a somewhat controversial Sonic character. He kinda represents the “new edgy era” that a lot of classic fans aren’t big fans of, and he’s a pretty shallow character, so a lot of people don’t like him.." Where have you been? 2009? The Modern series isn't divisive anymore, ever since Generations/Mania/Superstars set Classic and Modern as two separate series, Classic fans have been getting content that they enjoy. Classic Sonic only lasted 7 years from 1991-1998, the Modern one has been going on for 26 and will continue as the main series. The majority of Sonic fans these days have experienced the "new edgy era" of Sonic as their norm.

[@milesfernando]

​@@natoriousthehopeful2786 Yeah, Shadow is one of the most popular characters in the series.

[@natoriousthehopeful2786]

@@milesfernando okay, just making sure I wasn't crazy

[@WhyYouWahYoo]

@@milesfernandotrue, and I believe as of now the majority of people are either neutral or love Shadow. But there are a few, usually people who’ve liked Sonic SINCE the classic era, that don’t. I shouldn’t have phrased it that it’s because they don’t like the “new edgy era,” that’s wrong. I’ll rephrase it to “cheesily edgy aspect” of Sonic because there are occasions where people still roll their eyes at the more edgy aspects (I.e Sonic forces)

[@sherwinie]

Picked up the cute shirt in black. Yay

[@crobinson2624]

I don’t see the Delta app in the Apple Store top free apps section anymore…. I wonder if Apple is trying to bury it to limit exposure.

[@gamephonics32]

I have a solution to the emulation issue. But it depends on how Nintendo and the community want to approach the situation. I know this is a delicate situation so I would rather watch things play out.

[@dougsnell1790]

I was very surprised to see that you guys didn't have any of the Spore or Harry Potter games. Also, yall missed out on a Animal crossing esq experience that was like going to a school similar to Hogwarts Mysterious Times Magical quest

[@PaulGaleNetwork]

Here’s to a great episode!

[@Evenmoresteven]

Here's why I think there's a huge difference between pirating movies, compared to game emulation. Pirating movies I consider to be more wrong becuase movies are available to purchase legally on so many different streaming services and venues at an affordable rate. With Nintendo games specifically, if Nintendo is going to make it nearly impossible to play these older games without shelling out literal hundreds of dollars, then I find no problem with it. More people should be able to enjoy these old games, and the fact that Nintendo makes it so hard to legally do so is absurd. Especially since Nintendo's current hardware is more than able to run any of these games, and they just refuse to make them accesible, even to purchase indivdually apart from their switch online service. Nintendo is fighting a loosing battle, and what's crazy is that if they would just "give in" and offer their back catalogue for affordable purchase, they wouldn't be losing anything, they would MAKE MORE MONEY. I legitimately don't understand it.

[@RuuyG]

99,9999999% of emulation is still piracy, period. People basically never dump legally owned copies, but rather download illegally distributed ones from the internet. Also, a lot of well working emulators illegally use some parts of the software of the companies, like seen in the case of Yuzu. People that say emulation isn't illegal are dishonest, immature people, they are treating an almost non-existent exception like the norm.

[@Evenmoresteven]

@@RuuyG I never said it wasn't illegal. I'm saying that whether Nintendo likes it or not it's going to continue to happen until they make their back catalogue available to purchase for a reasonable amount of money. And I also don't blame people that maybe just got into gaming and want to experience some of these games without paying in upwards of a thousand dollars in some cases to do so. All Nintendo is doing by trying to combat all of these things is to make themselves less relevant and also make less money in today's digital marketplace. This is literally the Lars Ulrich/Napster debate of the 2000s, except Nintendo is Lars Ulrich lol

[@Evenmoresteven]

@@RuuyG I will say that I am making the argument that emulating old games isn't morally wrong. Nintendo literally is not losing any revenue from you downloading ROMs for games that are no longer in production. If the only legal way to get them is through the second hand market, none of that money goes to the IP holder. Now if Nintendo did start making these games available to purchase digitally (which is what I am arguing they should do) then I would probably switch my viewpoint.

[@thawhole9]

​@@RuuyG found Doug Bowser's burner

[@VGMoose]

​@@RuuyG You have way too many .99999's on that figure... You can definitely extremely easily dump and play your own roms for ~$50, and buy used cartridges for less than that too. Just to be very clear, if there were 1,000,000,000 (one billion) people using emulators, you're saying that only 1 person of of those 1 billion would dump their own roms, and own their own games? Way too hyperbolic. I don't know what the real ratio is, but an analogy with vhs or dvd cloning is more applicable. There's a product featured in this video (the GB Operator) that dumps roms and saves, and old cartridges sell on ebay all the time. The market is alive and there to make those old games more accessible and Nintendo is completely ignoring it.

[@greatsaiyaguy8868]

I think Nintendo should turn up the old factories and start printing copies of their old games again. Is that actually a financially smart thing to do? No not at all. Would it make me happy to buy a copy of Mario Kart Double Dash for less than 80 bucks? Yes it would.

[@sirmel11]

Why would you not watch a show related to a movie you're going to watch?

[@Crobat3trainer]

I think Nintendo needs to get ahead of the curve and offer their NSO games on their NSO phone app and offer the service (minus online) for a cheaper price

[@mikeandmax750]

They create every emulation problem themselves. If instead of trying to prevent customers from getting what they want (which they usually will) maybe they should consider actually just selling their old games, even on iPhones where people obviously want to play them. It’s only a service problem on their part.

[@JYGamingGuys]

Question does Nintendo have an interrogation room?

[@meta4knight]

If Nintendo made a new true handheld designed to support all of their old games it would fix a lot of their problems

[@SALARIER]

Rumors about a rumor....

[@markieman64]

I bought a t-shirt! ♥️

[@tiny_tamsz]

MUI MUI 💜

[@raidev_]

i don't think the delta emulator is making much of a difference, android has been able to do this for decades

[@OneRandomVictory]

Been waiting on Mother 3 for so long I don't care anymore.

[@MaisieSqueak]

How is buying digital NOT supporting the developer? Just interested in the Physical buyer's mind set and why they are repelled from digital (besides not having something to look at and hold). From my point of view digital is not just about store purchase... it's the medium where you can easily get any game at all. It IS a shame I jumped on right at the start of it's conception and never bothered hanging onto any kind of collection... I like seeing those shelves full of titles... however the convenience is out of the park and when I lose something I can get it again by other means and not feel like it's a scuff version of what I had before... Collecting physical IS lovely to have... Like any collection... but I think that's where the benefits end.

[@hellsong23]

I have a friend at work, never played a Nintendo game, playing Pokemon on his iPhone. He doesn't care because he's sure a billion dollar company doesn't care about him. It's defo grey.

[@willwunsche6940]

Nintendo would make serious bank too if they just started selling copies of must play games like Pokemon Heart Gold again. Nintendo should've released some of their internal emulators to play games decades ago on mobile like Sega did. But it doesn't matter thankfully since monopolies are illegal and people will make better and/or cheaper or free emulators as competition

[@welcometodokidokiliteratur3706]

@@willwunsche6940 I think that's more Pokemon Company. Nintendo might want these old Pokemon game on their online service but Pokemon Company isn't.

[@TonyTyga90]

Export NSO Switch applications to mobile and do a NSO Ultimate tier. If there will be a Xbox Game Pass cloud app soon (due to new reg developments) then hands down NSO apps are possible. The current NSO app consoles go to N64. The raspberry pi can go further thus every modern iPhone can handle the apps. Do it Nintendo!

[@willwunsche6940]

Would prefer they sell their own better versions of old games on mobile standalone, like Mariokart Wii for example at a flat rate like $20. Just tired of subscription-ification of everything. Emulators like Dolphin can be used on moblie too as a valid competition option if you still old your old Wii and games to play stuff on mobile, so that sort of serves as intended competition, so Nintendo would at least need to do something better if they released it at least. I have had Mariokart Wii and Pokemon Conquest to play on my phone for like the past 5-6 years

[@ben-tendo]

I feel like videogaming as a whole needs to catch up with the way classic games are distributed, and needs to look at the likes of Netflix and Spotify as a more serious subscription service for people to provide developers and publishers revenue. NSO is great but the drip feed mentality just doesn't work, and feels like the Disney Vault method that even Disney doesn't work with anymore. Make games accessible and profitable, and crush the argument on both the legalities of emulation as well as the stupid prices of games on eBay (that doesn't benefit the developers either yet is somehow more acceptable).

[@WhyYouWahYoo]

I agree that the “Disney vault” method is scummy, but There are an admittedly minority amount of people that believe the mentality of “games just being roms” is super dangerous for the well-being of this industry. I’m one of them. Music and movies are so different in the fashion we consume them. You can throw them on in the background while doing something, playlist a song and never listen to the others in that album, etc. but games have a simultaneous problem of being both actively engaging and, even worse, large. In my opinion just distributing games the same way we do other mediums is a little too “one size Fits all” for me

[@paparick6234]

You guys are late! Lol I kid ❤️

[@Ryshin75]

Just gonna say. I’ve never played Pokémon black before. And playing on my phone right now is a pretty cool experience.

[@willwunsche6940]

I highly recommend Pokemon Conquest on the phone if you are looking for another great game! I still occasionally play it, have had it on my phone(s) for like a decade now on Drastic Emulator. Second favorite Pokemon game, and I actually prefer playing it on my phone versus my old DS/3DS. The controls are particularly well suited for phones. Plus my phone's speakers and screens are way better than the DS.

[@okamic1750]

As long as delta keeps being badass and playing by the rules like they have been Nintendo has no say in this matter. They can do literally nothing. They’ll keep attacking rom sites and more egregious offenders but Apple is finally allowing emulators. Nintendo can’t do anything about that and knowing Apple, any emulator allowed on the App Store is trustworthy and legit.

[@skmassive2714]

It's so funny to me that these 2 folks really think that if Nintendo was selling games and the emulated games are free that people would buy them. I understand you'll depend on the public, so you're just speaking for most of the online gaming community, so I know you'll do not believe what you're saying, ain't no way. The main emulation is popular because it is free, not because the games aren't available, and alot of games are starting to become available through their online service. It's funny seeing 2 former Nintendo employees sound like generic KZbinrs is very telling!

[@SanjiGenial]

I strongly disagree about the NSO. There are pretty much all big first party games on the NES, SNES, N64 systems... And a lot of releases these days on GB and GBA. You talk about the Virtual Console, but it was worse. First, the price for each game was high. Now, you get everything in an accessible service. The emulation is pretty good on Switch, it was not good on Wii U (N64 has a lot of input lag and dark colors, for example). AND there are a lot of games available on Switch that were NOT available on Wii U, actually the N64 library of games on Switch is just better. And there will be other games in the future. By the way, maybe it's not a thing for you in US, you wouldn't even think about that, but we get the games in their translated version in Europe, which was not even the case on Wii U! We had to play the NTSC games, in English, no French, no German, no Italian... I just can't agree about the situation of the accessibility of the retro games on Switch and Wii U. Overall, the service is just great and you don't need piracy to play the most popular games on these systems. They also release remasters / remakes for GameCube or Wii games on Switch, of course it's not even close to be the full library, but still, little by little I feel less and less the need to keep my old console to play my old games.

[@Dinosaursof]

Do you really value your signed games more than you value my life?

[@Spenerico]

Stop emulating!!! Also this month our monthly Nintendo online game is Scrunt

[@xxBrent87xx]

If they were to put all their games on the app store they wouldn't have to worry. They want to keep it on their own systems but that is not future-proofing. They will grow if they put it on mobile. Hell, they could be making gangbusters on all their games if they made it available there.

[@themonado5030]

I hate emulation. Because most of the people dont buy the game and just say they did.

[@Marc-kc3nz]

Stay butthurt. Emulation is 100% legal

[@M00nlightOfficial]

A really narrowminded take for someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

[@willwunsche6940]

You come off as uniformed on the topic. Nintendo literally profits a ton off of emulation on Nintendo Switch Online, some of the consoles like Sega they don't own the rights to yet they still develop their own emulators for profit just getting the games from Sega instead. The whole thing is more about DRM and Nintendo wanting to control people's consoles and force them to rebuy the same game every generation. Again Nintendo has whole development studios dedicated to furthering their own emulation. Companies want less competitors and to limit the rights of people who buy their games from enhancing their games something the United States court has ruled against as they recognize the value of fair competition in a healthy market and reverse engineering plus consumer rights. Most AAA developers, indie developers, people, and basically everyone but Nintendo win in the situation community run emulators thrive. If you listen to actual developers and developer conferences you'll hear how much emulators help them learn thrive and develop better games some solutions for game mechanics lie in ancient games no longer able to be accessed. Even Nintendo developers have directly benefitted from emulation a ton, this is all excluding the benefits of human history if you care about art appreciation or the morality aspect of owning the stuff you buy.

[@jboogie915]

Oh so screw game preservation? Ok cool I never played chrono trigger it’s expensive to get it and square wouldn’t get any profits from it but guess what! I get to play it for free!!!!

[@RJ-zn2jz]

First! to be 9th

[@RJ-zn2jz]

P.S. where can I get that shirt

[@LuigiFunTime7665]

I’m going to be honest right now Nintendo are mad in one way to another because they can ruined the Nintendo fans fun very fast & i know what Nintendo company are actually up to at work a mile away so I do believe that next year there is will be no mario games next year because people are breaking the rules in Nintendo company records

[@MaisieSqueak]

"Metaphor Re Fanta-ZE--o"??? who pronounces it that way? They said the title of the game on videos XD It's Re Fan-TAY-zeo Why do Americans do this? ONLY Americans do this! Stop messing with names, personal or otherwise! ... Let the owners of them tell you how it's pronounced. It's their right for goodness sakes!

[@rodrigocoronado5248]

Fuck billionaire companies! I hope emulation gets more mainstream. More than 80% of retro games are noa accessible, talking preservation wise emulation its the only alternative. Instead of helping the consumer the chose to make a digital service in which you own NOTHING! People that defends companies instead of the consumer are crazy to me. Nintendo is one of the most conservative companies I've seen, they prefer to maintain their old ways instead of adapting. It's their fault their games are being emulated.

[@thawhole9]

The fact of the matter remains that Nintendo is the most anti-consumer Draconian company in the world. They have always and will continue to be their own worst enemy (SNES playstation debacle all the way up to NSO shenanigans) and are the main reason they can never sustain continued success from generation to generation. Their whole stance on emulators is just icing on the cake of their own failings and I'm here for it.

[@AREAlhero]

There are several entire industries (the entire fast food industry, tobacco, etc) whose companies are degrees of magnitude more anti-consumer than Nintendo, so its not by any means a fact of the matter. Even in the games industry, companies like EA, Ubisoft, ActiBlizz are far worse, there isn't even an argument that can be made that Nintendo is worse than them. Furthermore, they have usually continued success from generation. Let's break it down: NES Generation: clearly on top, literally rebuilt the industry with it SNES Generation: still the clear winner of the generation even though now there's a bit more competition N64/Game Boy Generation: N64 faltered in sales but won out in terms of critical receptions of its games, which were industry redefining. The Game Boy and Game Boy Color were such successes that it made Nintendo the only handheld console viable in the space and a bigger success than any other console that generation. GameCube/GBA Generation: GameCube faltered but software quality wise these were the defining games of the generation. Game Boy Advance continued the Game Boy's strong legacy and continued to outsell the competition, handheld and otherwise. Wii/DS Generation: Clear winner on both fronts, and the most dominant performance by any console manufacturer ever in the industry. Even the high's of Sony's last generation is 50% of what Nintendo did here. Wii U/3DS Generation: Wii U clearly was a misstep but 3DS picked up the slack, destroying the Vita and Xbone in sales singlehandedly. Switch Generation: Again, Nintendo is the clear winner here, selling more Switches than both competitors combined. So what's the takeaway here? Sure, Nintendo isn't always the generational sales leader, but even then they're never "last place" and that can only be defined as success. Especially as the numbers trend higher every generation. They are and have remained a success, and a major success at that. Those are just the facts Cody. Perhaps study up on industry trends, you can learn something someday.

[@thawhole9]

@@AREAlhero i swear you must have notification alerts set up looking for my comments Also your breakdown each generation is riddled with so many subjective takes it's not worth rebutting them all. I'm of course speaking from a sales standpoint only, as Nintendo (like every for-profit company ever) would be as well (hello, shareholders!)

[@AREAlhero]

@@thawhole9 Nah troll behavior is just super predictable. And what are you talking about? I literally was just reporting the results of the sales data. You quite literally cannot offer a rebuttal to them because it is just the raw facts of the scenario. There was literally nothing subjective in there at all homie

[@thawhole9]

@@AREAlhero "I literally was just reporting the results of the sales data." That's funny, because all this: "N64 faltered in sales but won out in terms of critical receptions of its games, which were industry redefining." "GameCube faltered but software quality wise these were the defining games of the generation" "Wii U clearly was a misstep but 3DS picked up the slack, destroying the Vita and Xbone in sales singlehandedly" Have next to nothing to do with sales figures, and in the one example that partially does, you compare the 3DS, a handheld, to the Xbox One? Uh what? Here are actual facts: SNES sold less than NES, N64 sold less than SNES, GCN sold less than N64, Wii, while a success, was not SUSTAINED (my original point, remember?) as seen with the Wii U. 3DS, while a success in isolation sold HALF as well as the DS (shareholders did not like this, again one of my points). I'd say try harder next time but I fear your reading comprehension leaves a bit to be desired. EDIT: also, to your denial that you don't proactively seek me out on here, your wall of text in reply to my original comment was posted SEVEN MINUTES after mine. Guess I got a fan.

[@FirstEmperor]

Nintendo has had sustained success from generation to generation several times before. You don't know what you're talking about. While you're here for Nintendo's "failings" I'll be here to watch the Switch become the best selling console of all time.

[@UndertakerU2ber]

Wait...are they married? 🤨

[@purelogarithm]

No.

[@xGoldenArrow]

They are definitely living together tho

[@butt_elf]

I think the emulation demand just speaks to how much people desire game preservation and how important it is. We are in the early era still of video games but the big 3 (playstation, Nintendo, Xbox)need a good game preservation system across the board and find a way to make those old games available for people to purchase and play in a way that keeps up with the times. The video game industry has been alive long enough that this should be in place. I know Xbox is looking into a way to do this but the others need to follow.

[@1000Orgasms]

I wish your podcast wouldn't be a danger for TV burn ins...... 😅