Anglican Unscripted 890 - The Worst Among Equals

[@christopherbates1428]

In an unprecedented move, the Church of England has decided to appoint an American clergyman, the Right Rev. Canon Dr. George Conger, to be Archbishop of Canterbury!!

[@grahamnancledra7036]

The King on the advice of the Prime Minister appoints the new Archbishop not the church itself.

[@davidmorrison2739]

@@grahamnancledra7036 My sources in Buckingham Palace tell me...

[@polemeros]

I would bet big money that the disoriented Brits would more easily accept a black African lesbian immigrant in Canterbury than a white male American of British blood. You know I'm right. And can you see how fragmented and directionless that once very great country has become?

[@jem2264]

That would be wonderful - if only!

[@davidmorrison2739]

I'm not sure that "Rt Rev Canon" is a valid title, but I agree with the sentiment.

[@johnhudghton3535]

Excellent reporting. Thank you gentlemen. Hope the ulcer gets sorted George.

[@jessedutch3086]

Thanks for the show, and for painting the backdrop of recent developments. Let's pray that orthodoxy will reign, that biblical teaching will be restored and that Christ will be preached as never before!

[@urnamehere9237]

Well, this news is sigh-provoking but not unexpected. Justin demonstrated neither theological depth nor an effort to stay true to the "faith once delivered to the saints" when bombarded with the sophistries of modern society. It should not surprise anyone to learn that when confronted with a difficult choice, he instead chose the easy path. But I am hopeful for Justin, because in the Lord's great mercy, He has given Justin time to repent of the fiasco he made of a once great church. May the Lord have mercy on Justin as well as all of us

[@iancallard3561]

When Justin was 'elevated', I wrote an open letter saying, "... and please make sure your successor comes from the global south."

[@jem2264]

I don't think I've ever heard George sound so sombre as in this episode. Thank you for that encyclopaedic account of the issues which have culminated in Welby's resignation. Nowhere over here in the UK has there been such an examination of this grave subject. So much wrongdoing by so many that Almighty God has probably had to resort to a heavenly notebook to record it all.

[@lakaylee1]

As a CofE Anglican, I believe that a liberal will be appointed the new Archbishop of Canterbury. This, of course, would be a disaster. How about an orthodox bishop from an African province ?

[@nickbutland2797]

It doesn't have to be a disaster if we pray for her...

[@myleshagar9722]

It would be an excellent idea for leaders to find out why catholic Christianity is exploding in Africa, especially amid persecution.

[@peterjermey7235]

It usually alternates between an evangelical and a liberal/catholic. It's the liberals turn. Practically speaking it will have to be a liberal, have to be a man, have to accept women's ministry, be a diocesan, and be less than 68 years old. That's actually quote a small pool to pick from. I'm just hoping they don't get another guy from Eton.

[@janetsmiley6778]

The look on Kevin’s face when George said “Episode 900” was worth the price of admission. 😅

[@josephrankin2248]

Regarding the response to Justin Welby's resignation I find that the English bishop's are for the most part disingenuous. They said he acted with integrity, no he didn't he was shown the door and told to use it. They talk about the needs of the victims and the safeguarding which is good. Many of the foreign bishops are polite. I find the best response is that of Phil Ashey found on Anglican Ink. He in my opinion rightly names not only Welby but the leadership of the CofE. As G. Conger pointed out Welby put a lot of like minded "yes men" and women in these roles. They need someone out side the CofE and the western churches to come in and sweep it clean to let the Gospel of Christ once again be front and center not hidden away as an embarassment.

[@peterjermey7235]

I think they need to replace most of the bishops with good parish vicars. As happens in every denomination, if you are honest then you have no chance of being promoted. I am troubled that most of the bishops are still denying that Welby personally did anything wrong. I do not understand how we can have senior church leaders who have no concept of why children should be kept safe from predators

[@georgeconger4782]

A made a mistake in saying the Bishop of Lincoln Stephen Conway had been chaplain at Winchester College. He was not. When he was Bishop of Ely he was warned of Smythe's abuse but took no actions the Makin Review. I regret confusing the names of Conway with David Connor -- who had been chaplain at Winchester during the Smythe era

[@simoontube]

Best analysis I have seen on the Welby situation

[@JonathanRedden-wh6un]

I don’t think prayers of love and faith is dead in the water. The next Archbishop wil probably be liberal and supportive of the process.

[@RevBrettMurphy]

Great coverage gents!

[@whiteheatherclub]

The English phrase is "being economical with the truth".

[@kenbeach5021]

_Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Look to yourself, lest you too be tempted._ The trespass that Welby has succumbed to is very serious, but if he is actually a believer who has fallen into deception and sin, and LLF is deception of the highest order, then the goal should be for him _as a person_ to be restored. The reaction to Welby as a person seems to me to be more 'fleshly' than spiritual. I don't want to minimise what Welby did or rather failed to do, but he is being treated almost as though he were guilty of the abuse himself. Secular Britain is guilty of systemic neglect of its children and is in no position to point the finger. Nor are Roman Catholics ("the one true church Jesus founded") considering the level of abuse and covering it up that has gone on in their religious institution. Welby could yet illustrate the truth 'the vilest offender who truly believes that moment from Jesus s pardon receives'.

[@paulgrayshon1375]

Very well said

[@marmeemarch7080]

All true, yet a leader who has done what he has done should never go back into leadership. We must forgive him; he must go into the secular workforce.

[@paulgrayshon1375]

@kenbeach5021 very well written thank you

[@Coolrunnings007]

The celebratory mood on the show is palpable😁. But on a serious note, God will not be mocked and unfortunately Archbishop Welby was making a mockery of the Christian faith with is statements and actions.

[@gabriellefletcher3523]

The Anglican Church needs repentance and return to the one true Church

[@tonyoliver2750]

The Eastern Orthodox?

[@paulgrayshon1375]

There's only one true church, disciples of Jesus

[@tonyoliver2750]

@@paulgrayshon1375 And which Church is that?

[@raychandler2757]

Gentlemen, I've listened to voluminous commentary over the last week concerning the animal Smyth and the incompetent Welby. Where do the parental guardians of these victims place in this scenario? I mean your precious son comes home from a religious camp with injuries?

[@marmeemarch7080]

I bet the parents never knew back at the time.

[@stewartgray4301]

The CofE have a marvelous opportunity for change. I think the best candidate for the replacement Archbishop is no-one. Let the people manage the church themselves. Presbyterians have had no bishops for years and seen to be managing quite well, thank you.

[@donstanley6480]

Given all the nuances of this situation which reflects badly on the Kingdom of God and after much reflection, I believe that Welby should not be given a life peerage as is usually the case for ABC’s. It would add much pain for the victims

[@janetsmiley6778]

Where were you the day Welby resigned? I was sweeping and mopping my kitchen floor. I felt a sense of relief when the whole dirty mess was finished - until next week. Sigh.

[@787Earl]

God bless you, thank you

[@787Earl]

I missed 10 . what happened to 891-899.

[@ATVMinistries]

you didn't miss anything - episode was misstated

[@johngillatt2740]

It looks like smoke needs to come out of the chimney before the new Arch Bishop of Cantebery is chosen

[@gusmacdonald4669]

In describing Justin Welby’s main requirement of people as being ‘LOYALTY’, you have hit on the HEART of the UK ‘Public School’ mentality (‘the old school tie’). This is, for example, why none of them would ‘snich’ on Lord Lucan! Among ex public school ‘christians’, LOYALTY to the system seems to be SECRETLY more important than whether they are ‘evangelicals’ or ‘charismatics’ or ‘liberals’ or ‘academics’. The Iwerne/Titus Trust system began by being for boys from ‘THE TOP 30’ independent schools (the list of 30 never published!) whose loyalty could be relied on (with no complaints being made about anything!!). Like with many of the Scribes, Pharisees, Saducees & Priests of Jesus’ day, POWER and PRIDE seem to be behind it, along with the CALCULATING MINDSET of fallen man, which seeks to create & control the detail even of GOD’S requirements. I kind of feel sorry for them. Jesus was very angry with them. “He (Messiah) shall be favourable to the simple and needy: and shall preserve the souls of the poor”. [Psalm72v13]

[@Mark3ABE]

Justin Welby’s resignation runs at two levels. The official level, which is that these camps were run by the Church of England (they were not - they were run by a private Trust which was more affiliated with the Public School system than with the Church of England) and that Justin Welby had responsibility for John Smyth in the same way as if he had been a clerk in holy orders (even though he was not) and also that he had a responsibility for making a complaint to the Police (although he had no status to do so - only the parents of the boys concerned would have been entitled to refer the matter to the Police and they might, very well, not have wanted to do so, nor to have any one else refer the matter to the Police on their behalf). So, a series of fictions is maintained - that the Church of England is akin to a large Corporation, of which the Archbishop of Canterbury is akin to the Chief Executive (although he is not - the Church of England has joint Primates, the Archbishops of Canterbury and of York of whom the Archbishop of Canterbury is the more senior, however, he does not have overriding authority in the Church, in particular, in the Province of York). So, all of these fictions have to be publicly maintained, so that Justin Welby can “do the decent thing” and “fall on his sword”. Why all of these fictions? Because, if Justin Welby poses as a distant Chief Executive of a very large Corporation who had no actual personal knowledge of this abuse, he can resign on the very high principles that “the buck stops with me” and go out in a blaze of self sacrificing innocent glory. So, what is the truth of the matter? That the Church of England and the Archbishop of Canterbury are not, in fact, involved at all. Justin Welby is personally involved, since he was involved in these camps and, it would appear, actually shared a bunk room with John Smyth. However, he would never have consented to have resigned as Archbishop of Canterbury on this basis - for a start, there would have been no logical reason for him to have done so, since the Church of England did not run these camps. So, the whole thing is wonderfully dishonest and involves a great deal of “smoke and mirrors” the end result of which is that Justin Welby can now return to sit on the Board of a big oil company and draw a large Director’s fee, and be freed of all of these unsavoury matters once and for all. I wish him all the best. He is well out of it all. In England we do these things really well.

[@MichaelReilly-r7h]

Many Catholics would like if Pope Francis were the next to go. Fat chance !

[@robertsheridan1975]

If the ACNA can't also represent North American Anglicans, then the Communion is the type of Legalism that Jesus spoke forcefully against. It's British Empire

[@temiadeloye8800]

Rather than choose for God to give us Anglo-Catholic Archbishop, let us pray for God's own choice in His Wisdom. His thoughts are incomparable to ours. Let us be faithful to pray and ask for Revival for the Church. The Lord's Name be praised . Alleluia . God has done great things.

[@royquick-s5n]

I find it hard to accept that choices made by a nominations committee, prime minister, and king are attributable to God.

[@traceyedson9652]

@@royquick-s5nand yet the scriptures are clear: God will use the earthen vessel of His choice. And it seldom matches our criteria, including the Lord Himself “Who had no form or communes that we should be drawn to Him.”

[@peterjermey7235]

​@@royquick-s5nespecially when at least one member of the commission was involved in covering up Smyths crimes!

[@peterjermey7235]

It will almost have to be a catholic because it's their "turn"

[@royquick-s5n]

@@peterjermey7235 I suppose you mean Anglo-Catholic or high church. What percentage of the Church of England is Anglo-Catholic or high church? Don't assume Anglo-Catholics or high church have not involved in cover-ups or sexual abuse scandals. If I am not mistaken a higher number have been involved than those of Evangelical orientation, which, in part, has been part of the alarm over the Makin Report.

[@campbellpaget453]

I think you have to be very careful about tarring everyone in the Titus Trust with the same brush: there are some marvellous people in it. It is quite obvious that many knew nothing at all - because the perpetrators were very canny - but a number were undoubtedly complicit in the cover up. All my children attended Iwerne camps and were completely surprised by the revelations. A large part of the problem was that Smythe and Fletcher were idolised and so no questions were asked or even thought to be asked. Putting shepherds and teachers on pedestals is never healthful. There are, sadly, too many bishops of recent years who lack both character and courage when such challenges arise. There needs to be a far better and more transparent way of selecting them. From Boddington's take over of the selecting process too many were chosen to meet DE1 agendas and who would be good 'company' men and women who would not rock the boat and maintain the pernicious principle of collegiality and the presenting of a united front for the sake of appearances. The rot is not confined to Conservative Evangelicalism by any means; it is much more pervasive. A root and branch revision is required, and respected lay people are probably best placed to execute it.

[@davidmorrison2739]

Are we going to hear about the C of E's welbying? Sorry, spelling mistake- well-being

[@jtrevm]

Gentlemen. We are united in sin. Most of all - pride. I share this with you. Not too many other things perhaps. Justin gave his best. And then presented himself to Jesus. Those who are now 'crying off with head' will have to find some one else.

[@royquick-s5n]

I hope in what is about to happen people will take notice how an Archbishop of Canterbury is selected. Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that a Crown Nominations Committee, which contains some representation from the General Synod, forwards two names to the Prime Minister, who, in turn, selects one, and takes it to the King for approval. Look how much influence the government has on the choice. Just how much representation and influence does the general membership of the province have on the selection? How naive people are! You mentioned it, for GAFCON and Global South, it's a council of primates that chooses a primus inter pares. Just how much influence does the general world membership have? Are people using the appointment of a pope by a college of cardinals appointed by previous popes to justify it? To think that in the Early Church the clergy and laity of a diocese choose a bishop! On a different topic, its interesting that the Makin Report has been redacted. Transparency? George seems to be right that the Council of Primates should seize the moment, but will they? 🤔

[@davidmorrison2739]

Did the King encourage Lord Welby to resign?

[@royquick-s5n]

Does the King have a better replacement in mind? Not more of the same or worse?

[@Hellish2050]

Look for the book "Enablers of Islam: The Church". Welby should have gone for other very serious matters too.

[@Yasmirr]

Praying for a traditionalist Anglo-Catholic for the next Archbishop of Canterbury who can reunite the Anglican Communion.

[@davidmorrison2739]

And keep us in Sydney well away!

[@DD-bx8rb]

@@davidmorrison2739 Yes, Sydney Anglicans are one of the most anti-Catholic sections of the Anglican "Church". In Syndey and near-by they expend alot of resources trying to win over Catholics, with specially tailored resources and organisations. The resources are quite laughable in how they purport to know what motivates people and how to win them over. The only success they have is in winning over Catholics who do not know their faith very well; as St john Henry Newman famously said "to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant. But the Sydney Catholic Archdiocese is well aware and has a fantastic evangelisation program.

[@royquick-s5n]

Views on morality don't count?

[@davidmorrison2739]

@@royquick-s5n Anglo-Catholics are a bit of a pain to us post-Reformation Anglicans, but they do have good views on morality.

[@marmeemarch7080]

​@davidmorrison2739 y'all have more in common with Anglo-Catholics than you might think. Edit to add: actual Anglo-Catholics, not the pretenders, such as "Affirming Catholics."

[@mikecrees9715]

I wonder if the CNC will be as divided on the ABC as with our local vacancy in see.

[@paulgrayshon1375]

Very uncomfortable with your title of tonight's show

[@darylmulwane3430]

The tec doing dirty things? COULD not happen.

[@jesuslovesaves2682]

He resigns over the abuse but not the source of the abuse that he openly supports.

[@AndrewMeldrum-i8f]

Point of detail - Stephen Conway was never Chaplain of Winchester College.

[@gershaun2010]

Most probably, Kier Starmer will pick the next Archbishop of Canterbury.

[@ryanhelsby4735]

Thats not how it works

[@fredrevell6436]

Speculation, but is it a coincidence that after illegally pushing LLF, then days after expressing a heresy in a popular podcast the Archbishop is removed. I expect the answer will be in the new appointment. Probably a woman if not a liberal but what if it is an unexpected traditional? The King is unlikely to enforce his role as protector of The Faith in favour of a traditional given his belief in the equality of all religions. The case for a liberal is strengthened by the majority of members support LLF, it seems.

[@campbellpaget453]

I would be very surprised if 'the majority of members support LLF'. A straw poll quickly suggests the opposite is true.

[@brjimbo1]

All of the great churchmen in England who could have considered viable candidates have been received into the Roman Catholic Church via the Personal Ordinariate of the Lady of Walsingham. My vote for the Archbishop of Canterbury would be the Archbishop of the Church in Wales, Andy John...well maybe. This may be the opportunity and a new day for a true Anglo-Catholic to be appointed by King Charles. And breathe new life in the worldwide Anglican Communion.

[@Hellish2050]

Michael Nazir-Ali, Gavin Ashenden.

[@DD-bx8rb]

Yes, the Anglican "Church" started dying the day it was born. The Catholic Church and Catholic Faith is Englands authentic heritage.

[@royquick-s5n]

Fine example of greatness, resigning to be led by someone appointed by a group of bishops selected by prior incumbents. No mention what moral views a successor to Welby should have. Or do Anglo-Catholics have a corner on morality?

[@fargothbosmer2059]

Paul Blackham Should be ABC

[@davidknox5929]

Need a Bishop from abroad

[@bobk1845]

The problem is that his successor will be an Anglican

[@janetsmiley6778]

Would you still think that if George Conger was made ABC? We still have hundreds of godly Bishops in the Anglican Church.

[@HolyAdonis]

This is Polemics and it is not helpful/

[@robmarshall956]

What perfect denomination do you belong to Bob.

[@slytlygufy]

Come home to Holy Orthodoxy, the One, True, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

[@marmeemarch7080]

The people who called all Westerners heretics for a millennium and never even sent missionaries to us? That Orthodox Church?

[@annakimborahpa]

1. Paraphrasing the poem For Whom The Bell Tolls by John Donne (c.1572 - 1631): The resignation of his grace diminishes me, For I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for Welby. 2. That said, Princess Pocahontas could intercede with Chief Powhatan for John Smith, but ABC Welby could not do the same for John Smyth. 3. Have we all joined The 900 Club? Too bad Pat Robertson isn't around, RIP.

[@grahamnancledra7036]

The comments in many forums, declaring glee at the resignation of the Archbishop of Canterbury I find disturbing. Where is the love that Christians are supposed to show to others. Christ would be ashamed of those who are happy he has gone. Satisfaction maybe but not the put downs and joy many are showing in their comments. Not only here but many other online sites as well.

[@royquick-s5n]

Are you sure Welby might not be on Jesus' "brood of vipers" list?

[@traceyedson9652]

“When the righteous increase, the people rejoice, but when the wicked rule, the people groan.” Prov. 29:2

[@davidknox5929]

Maybe Dr George Congar

[@janetsmiley6778]

We’ll need to consecrate him a Bishop first!

[@monicabrewster2476]

890!

[@aussiebloke51]

These two talking heads do nothing to commend the gospel of Christ. All they seem intent on doing is collecting up stones so they can cast the first one.

[@royquick-s5n]

Oh, sure, let's go on our hypocritical merry way. Oops, what do we say in the Lord's Prayer, "Forgive us our trespasses"? Those two talking heads are putting out the caution cones along the route.

[@aussiebloke51]

@@royquick-s5n Forgive us our trespasses --- as we forgive those who trespass against us.

[@gershaun2010]

Sure, forgiveness of Jesus goes hand in hand with justice. It's not forgiveness is lacking in our churches. Justice has stumbled in our churches.

[@johnhudghton3535]

If you do not like it don't listen. In any case the discussion is far wider ranging than mere "stone gathering/throwing". A lot of people do not understand what has happened, including English clergy who have notvread the report. Um...also what have you just done to them? It's funny how it works both ways.

[@aussiebloke51]

@johnhudghton3535 As they have 10k subscribers and Anglicans number over 70 million, this channel is just a small echo chamber.

[@alanduff2205]

Please leave the politics out, we can get that anywhere.

[@janetsmiley6778]

He was not speaking of “civil” politics. Any large organization with a governing body is going to full of politics and back rom dealing. It was very important for George to make this clear.

[@stephencapitelli4967]

You condemn Archbishop Welby for lying yet you support Trump, a pathological liar. It is obvious that you have abandoned the Gospel of Christ in favor of the gospel of Trump. When you look for the "crazies" just look in the mirror.

[@ATVMinistries]

Thankfully this Trump you are alluding to is not a cleric.

[@campbellpaget453]

They have very different roles; you are being most disingenuous. Welby was weak and tried to cover it up.