Klemperer the Immoralist (Full Interview)

The great conductor Otto Klemperer (1885-1973) interviewed by John Freeman (1915-2014) in 1961 (From the BBC "Face to Face" TV series).

[@novagerio9244]

He has a touching simplicity and humbleness, the gret old man!

[@aigleroyal3941]

- And when did you first decide that you like to be a conductor? - Always!!!

[@peterpiece2102]

I noticed that also....😅

[@bluetortilla]

HUGE fan. A master conductor of Beethoven, Bruckner, and Mahler. Extraordinary human being. I'll always love my Mahler's 2nd Symphony which fit on a regular CD.

[@theinnerlight87]

An utterly fascinating man. I could listen to him for hours. He showed his more relaxed self here, I think, quite far removed from the stern, aloof giant of a man that people often describe. He laughs, he answers questions honestly and affably. It's an honour to see this side of Klemperer. Thank you for uploading.

[@mistertx4141]

Furtwangler and Klemperer, the two greatest.

[@TheWiseMonkey8888]

25:28 ... such a charming, amiable and intellectually honest human being. Wonderful post... enjoyed the interview immensely... sadly too short... I could watch all day... or week!

[@MB2340]

Das sind mir die zwei liebsten.

[@larrymagee8758]

Thank god we still have this man's music to listen. This man's Mahler is truly great. Straight forward and true, with no embellishments, truly great.

[@SeventiesVet]

I find his personality fascinating as it is so serious, sincere, and genuine, unlike the frivolous, trivial, and artificial ones of contemporary notable people. The Bruno Walter discussion was especially fascinating and revealing. Freeman was an excellent interviewer here, making Klemperer feel comfortable with his respectful yet incisive questions.

[@Tartinesmeloves]

Can't thank you enough for this. I've read so much about how Klemp was both gracious and caustic, affable intellectual and (for want of better terms) adulterous party animal. It was nice to see traces of it all still there. Also, knowing that he struggled with bipolar disorder, it's heartbreaking to hear him say that his life was characterised by "ups and downs." A study in stoicism for today's celebrity.

[@paulprocopolis]

It's great to see this interview again. Freeman was quite a pioneer in this sort of television, his series including interviews with Carl Jung and Edith Sitwell among others. By today's standards, Freeman sounds like the perfect gentleman!

[@Warp75]

My favourite conductor & as someone with Bipolar it makes me appreciate him even more.

[@danali45]

A few months ago, I read a book that was made from interviews of Klemperer. I am very interested in his vision of music, all the more so as he's one of my favorite conductors. He is a man who could bring out all the shades and nuances of a music, having an accute understanding of moods, voices, feelings, contrasts ... I least that's what I think every time I hear him conduct.

[@jack1109]

Wonderful man, Maybe the best conductor of Beethoven ever

[@johnervin8033]

Amen. Under Walter Legge at EMI, covered in depth by Evan Eisenberg in his book "The Recording Angel" his offerings of Beethoven, and more than the symphonies, are unsurpassable. I'd be surprised if anyone ever excels them. They are spiritual testaments and gifts to the world and that mean limitless gifts to us.

[@BrianJosephMorgan]

I so admire his recording of “Der fliegende Hollaender,” with Anja Silja (EMI, 1968).

[@jun1956]

I love this recording too. Ms.Silja and Mr. Theo Adam as der Hollaender are really great. Best recording of the opus!

[@berlinzerberus]

What a giant he was..I exceedingly love his Brahms. Having heard him live a few months before he died, he conducted Beethoven 'Eroica' and Symphony No. 4. A wonderful experience, he and the New Philharmonia Orchestra. He was hardly able to walk on stage and I had the impression that the musicians played what they wanted to play without looking at him, he conducted in a way 'pro forma'.

[@jnsurg947]

I remember I saw a part of this interview in " The Art of Conducting". It was what he said about Bruno Walter. He said "He(Walter)is romantic, I am not at all." "He is moralist, I am immoralist." I respect Klemperer,I have many CD from his Mattäus Passion to Mahler.

[@PeterLunowPL]

wonderful man

[@duwir5959]

It´s great that there is a whole Beethoven cycle with Otto Klemperer and the Philharmonia available (videos on YT), everybody can see how this great man conduct.

[@afrofinka]

A great testimony of a great conductor. Klemperer is one of my favourites because of his natural authority on the podium. As Menuhin said "He stood there with authority and conviction ; he was a kind of magician"

[@Barbapippo]

Nice guy, honest and straightforward

[@vladislovkyzinski3430]

Barbapippo But not immoral. :)

[@hoorooblu]

Yes, this is Colonel Klink's dad, Otto, being interviewed. Otto's son, Werner, won Emmy awards in 1968 and 1969 for playing Klink in Hogan's Heroes, the anti-nazi, caper comedy set in a POW camp (truly funny, like Fawlty Towers in a prison camp). The German officers, such as Klink, were nearly all played by Jewish actors, who stipulated that their characters must always end up outwitted by the Allies or be victims of their own hubris/military system. One of the allied prisoners, LeBeau, was played by a real-life survivor of a concentration camp, Robert Clary, who noted that a POW camp was entirely different from a comcentration camp and he was happy to be making people laugh but also remember and think about WW2 ) Col. Klink plays classical.music on Hogan's Heroes, badly, but dreams of being famed as a musician...

[@SeventiesVet]

Thanks for the background, but this iconic interview is not about Hogan's Heroes.

[@janowarhammer]

Hermoso documento. Muchas gracias por compartirlo!

[@dmntuba]

Maestro ❤

[@Boltogenta]

Nice interview that I'v enjoyed very much. Thanks for sharing, pianopera.

[@ericyan2017]

Love this interview

[@hectoralmeidaduran3061]

It's wonderfull to hear two persons.with so much talent together and find out the.thougts and believes of so great director ! I was atonish about the moderno composer ,such as Stravinsky that he didnt understand him so much.! But this kind of interwiews.make us much aware of this great conductor and learn so much about him !

[@AALavdas]

Great interview, from both sides!

[@123must]

Dear Peter Geoge, thanks a lot for your clear explanation about the interviewer John Freeman. From the beginnning of this intervew I fett that there was a deep connection betwen these human beeing ! Thanks again !

[@theogoldberg8919]

Pianopera thanks for sharing.

[@ershenlin1774]

OK is THE GREATEST conductor ever. No one get close to him, not even WF.

[@lsmith145]

ok

[@jasonhurd4379]

Ershen Lin OK and WF were diametrically opposed in their approaches. Klemperer was very much a 'vertical' conductor, with the voicing of chords and the wealth of individual detail being given utmost importance. This gave his interpretations a rugged, 'granitic' quality that was most impressive, and also rendered them, for lack of a better word, objective, with any overt emotional content very much in the background. Contrariwise, for Furtwängler the long line and harmonic structure were uppermost, after the ideas of theorist Heinrich Schenker. Totally different, and each magnificent in his own way.

[@AALavdas]

That's a personal opinion. In my book, there is also Karajan, Furtwängler, Walter, Bernstein, Stokowski. It's not a competition, and there is not only one! We are blessed to have recordings from all those greats.

[@ershenlin1774]

@@jasonhurd4379 OK - objective; WF - subjective. It's not about vertical vs. horizontal.

[@ershenlin1774]

@@AALavdas First of all, all opinions are personal, and nothing more. Secondly, you seems to grew up in the age of K-worshiping, which lasts for several decades in the US and other NATO countries. To be honest, Karajan and Stokowski are two shallow showmen. you could ask Celibidache about it. I don't want to repeat his words on K (or "K-man" as per WF), which I very much agree. They are out of the top-50 conductors on my list. Incontrast, Светланов, Мравинский, Кондрашин are among the greatest. Walter and Bernstein are OK, but substantially overvalued too. BTW, where is your book? can you give a link? I ask because it seems you had an important stuff but then you are hiding it.

[@roberts932]

He has the looks of a harpy-eagle.

[@jonnsmusich]

Very nice. Thanks pianopera for putting this up. Yes I saw him conduct, maybe three times, in London. At that time I preferred Walter's Mahler. As Berlinzerberus says, by then he was poorly and not a dynamic conductor. But, like Adrian Boult, a huge presence with minimal movement. "Conduct with the eyes".

[@vladislovkyzinski3430]

He reminds me of Dr. Strangelove here, the way he is posed.

[@jacquesm1652]

Life lesson: don't throw alcohol on a fire.

[@123must]

very interesting ! Thanks

[@135yearswaiting]

John Freeman was a great interviewer, he let the interviewee speak . Today one usually learns more about the interviewer than the interviewee. I remember another interview Freeman did with Lord Birkett, the very famous barrister and judge, absolutely brilliant. Hope someone can put it on KZbin sometime.

[@123must]

Thanks !

[@douglasmurphy9127]

I know one thing Klemperer Mahler 2nd and philharmonia orchestra is one version that is all things considered one of the greatest interpretations

[@cappycapuzi1716]

fascinating outside of a few clunky questions. Klemperer was right "A conductor conducts with his eyes" (except for HvK). And I'm glad to be the first "Like" of this video!

[@margaretmoore7034]

Herr Doktor.. ist der Maestro !

[@hanslick7171]

Grateful....... enough said..........

[@anaklasis]

Freeman remained unsatisfied after this interview, saying that he didn't take the best of Klemperer.

[@anaklasis]

19:45 The best moment in this video. Klemperer does not understand why in the Earth he would quit conducting.

[@mrajczyk]

Klemperer is the only one you need go to for the Mass in D but Bruno Walter is the only conductor who has ever followed Beethoven's markings in the 7'th Sym 2'nd movement in playing the grace notes as such and not as 16'th notes which EVERYONE else did ( for the melody that accompanies the main one of single E notes), and does. The effect of this small change is incredible. Would you call that a romantic ? yes Freeman was asking such rubbish, at least in '61 he couldn't ask about Hogan's Heroes

[@jefolson6989]

Excellent observation.

[@gomagoma313]

Interesting. I find him more amiable than I thought. His speech is like his music. Trudging from a word to word,from a note to note.

[@prokastinatore]

The globe saw exactly two conductors who were able, to conduct the "St. Matthew Passion" from Johann Sebastian Bach: Otto Klemperer and Karl Richter!

[@pe-peron8441]

I absolutely agree. The first performance I heard of the St. Matthew Passion was by Karl Richter, and I immediately felt that I was in front of the greatest musical work I had ever heard, and by some margin. Some time later I had the good fortune to approach Klemperer and get to know his Passion, which, despite being at times almost overwhelming, like a colossal wounded beast, heavy and ungainly, but awe-inspiring beyond words, showed me an even greater grandeur And with this interview I also discovered that I adore not only the presenter but also the man, truly an exquisite person And how about you? What are your opinions on the two great maestri?

[@prokastinatore]

@@pe-peron8441 I absolutely agree. I believe in the Godfather, the Godfather Bach, the Godfathers of conducting like Klemperer and Richter!

[@patrickpaganini]

There are some interesting interviews with players who played under Mahler in the VPO and then in America - those interviews make it clear (if any one was in a any doubt) that Mahler was incredibly musical. When a player said "Mahler - I can't see your beat" - he replied, "You don't need to - during performance, you should listen to other players - a conductor is only necessary for rehearsal".

[@rq3tgunm]

When hearing "as the best living conductor of Beethoven" in the beginning, it seems that he just wanted so say: "what else?" :-)

[@prokastinatore]

Er war einer der größten Dirigenten der Vergangenheit, dessen Interpretationen heute noch Referenzstatus innehaben. Sein "Matthäus-Passion" von J.S. Bach ist Musikgeschichte. Nur Karl Richter dirigierte sie für meinen Geschmack noch ein wenig perfektionistischer.

[@maestroclassico5801]

Other than the stroke, his voice sounds a bit like his son actor Werner Klemperer....Colonel Klink from Hogan's Heroes

[@AGZ75]

La entrevista no podra subtitularse en español?, gracias.

[@AfroPoli]

11:26 How could they forget Mengelberg...!

[@jshaers96]

Who would have thought that you couldn't put a fire out with alcohol? A mistake anyone could make!

[@TS-1267]

... Since BEETHOVEN???.... 2:17 NEVER HEARD OF HIM

[@zensho68]

12:25 I'm immoralist, absolutely!

[@aksiiska9470]

the intro music is by beethoven, i guess, but i don't know exactly. er muss einen schlaganfall oder hirntumor gehabt haben

[@ODJones-zy5ir]

12:24 in case you were wondering...

[@themadmgtow5196]

hey its col klinks dad

[@masive1498]

Colonel Klink's Father

[@xkarenina5555]

11:45 Über Bruno Walter

[@bobsanders7958]

Hogan!

[@hobhood7118]

The 'conductor Mahler', not the 'composer Mahler'. In 1961 Mahler's music was only just becoming popular...

[@leestamm3187]

At the time to which he refers, 1905 to 1910, Mahler was far more renowned as a conductor than a composer.

[@jeffallcock4561]

Ah, I see: he compares Bruno Waler's Mahler and his: 'moralist' and 'immoralist'.

[@01Gezelle]

He says Amoralist not immoralist. Something quite different! It means not being a moralist

[@pianopera]

No, listen again at 12:22, he and John Freeman clearly said "immoralist", not "amoralist".

[@snaaptaker]

Nice. Colonel Klink's daddy. ☺

[@pianopera]

Had to look that up - Hogan's Heroes was before my time! :-)

[@snaaptaker]

Oh, sorry about that. I'm just old, and I remember those old shows, even though I didn't watch that one very much. I don't know about Holland and Japan, but it's still on TV in syndication in the US. And I think it's also on YT, if you want to check it out. It was sorta funny. :-)

[@pianopera]

Thanks. Somehow I'd never have thought that Otto Klemperer's son was a star in an American sitcom!

[@jasonhurd4379]

'Colonel Klink's daddy'...please. That's like referring to Lucille Ball as 'Desi Arnaz' wife'...😒

[@patrickpaganini]

I think any of us could probably have done a better interview.

[@theodentherenewed4785]

This interview turned out awkward. The interviewer asked questions about conductor's favourite Shakespeare's play - why does it matter? Why he didn't ask about the favourite musical pieces? And the moment when he asked about Hindemith's piece was a total cringe - maestro Klemperer remembered that he recorded something in the studio, but mr. Freeman had no idea what piece it was. Why did he ask about Hindemith then? If he had no idea and he didn't care, the journalist should've never mentioned the matter of modern composers. He was so poorly prepared and Klemperer, to my surprise, had a limited proficiency in English. He spent a lot of time in the USA and in the UK, I would've thought that he was very fluent in English. But no, he wasn't, the interview should've been in German to allow Klemperer speak more easily.

[@vjekop932]

It was an interesting interview, especially when they talk about Mahler and Walter. It's not their problem that you can't get over yourself and just enjoy.

[@vladislovkyzinski3430]

If indeed "immoralist" is the word, it is an absurd choice! I seriously doubt that Dr. Klemperer is an immoral person. How about "immortalist." That would connote he would be with us forever: immortal.

[@pianopera]

***** I used the word "Immoralist" here because Klemperer used it himself, when he compared himself with Bruno Walter, whom he called "Moralist". See the interview at 12:22. Of course that was only symbolically spoken.

[@adrianleverkuehn9832]

pianoperaYou are right. "Moralist" and "immoralist" are concepts from Nietsche, whom Klemperer read often (as he himself states at 24:30). For example, Nietsche considered himself an immoralist and Zarathustra a moralist. All German artists & intellectuals of Klemperer's generations knew Nietsche. That English speakers (especially recently) do not know Nietsche is the reason this remark of Klemperer's is seldom understood.

[@pianopera]

Adrian Leverkuehn Yes, I agree, apart from the spelling (it should be Nietzsche).

[@adrianleverkuehn9832]

pianopera Thanks, Vladislov! And thanks for uploading this video. I had heard for years about this interview (ever since it was quoted on the back of Klemperer's EMI Mahler 9th in the late '60s). Where did you get it?

[@arashfarhidnia7689]

+Vladislov Kyzinski I think Klemperer’s statement, he was, in comparison to Walter, an immoralist, simply means that where it came to the music, he did not keep to any usual labor traditions and conventions. In this sense the word "moralist / immoralist" is well-chosen.

[@AnonYMouse-df4ez]

Arash is right! I would have asked Klemperer about his compositions and then gone backward from there.....about his activities at the Kroll Opera and his stewardship of modern music.....about his views of Mahler, Beethoven, Mozart, Bruckner, many others.......his view of "Fidelio"----and much, much else. Freeman is a dolt.

[@ntodd4110]

I'm pretty sure he actually meant "amoralist". That is, he doesn't want to mix word-game of morality with the word-game of aesthetic choice. I respect that awareness. It shows up in his other comments as well.

[@andreaguarino8207]

Karajan Bernstein and Klemperer best conductors ever

[@user-on8su3xx7d]

クレンペラーは道徳的ではではなかった。 その割には、常識破りの名演があまり無かったように思う。 その点で、ライヴァルのブルーノ・ワルターに差をつけられた。 その訳は、ワルターがマーラー大先生の真似をしたのに対し、クレンペラーはできなかったからだろう。

[@furdiebant]

Uncompromising

[@sacksuhlenbeck]

Klemperer was disappointed at the result of this interview and didn't give any other. The interviewer here didn't realize clearly the historical significance of this event and conceived thus a digressive manner of unintelligent questions that focused more around the celebrity than the musician, let alone musicality. Anyone who indeed listened to his music would have come with questions such as: what makes you and Furtwangler great conductors and what is the main difference? What is really about the so-called conducting technique and how did you achieve your sound? Do you conduct Mozart's operas in German or English, what is your favorite and why?

[@MrKlemps]

For a thorough-going, lengthy interview, see "Conversations with Klemperer by his biographer Peter Heyworth. It's a wonderful book and is, I think still in print.

[@sacksuhlenbeck]

Thanks.

[@Boltogenta]

I agree with you, most of the question should have been the kind you show. But we can't deny we also feel curiosity about the person, and his not only general but also circumstancial feelings (then, in that way, historical). Anyway, I suppose that having this interview is a visual (most of all) complement to Peter Heyworth's work. Regards.

[@sacksuhlenbeck]

Thank you for this gentle opinion. Perhaps Klemperer the "person" is best, and can only be so, represented through the person as a musician, if only for the alternative saying that Klemperer has devoted everything to music (cf. Walter Legge, "...is inimitable") so that this person and his music can only be seen as out of a unity. Understanding the person is definitely useful to understanding his music-making, for instance. But as such the understanding of the person by questions should have the origin in the music, if echoing in the distance, which is of our real serious interest, is Klemperer the musician, and only such musicianship can reveal the historicality of Klemperer.

[@vjekop932]

@@sacksuhlenbeck You are so full of shit it is quite astonishing.

[@noeticwanderer7578]

This has got to be one of the worst and most superficial interviews I've ever seen. Did the interviewer even know who this man was? Got to love some of Klemperer's replies, though: "Did you like the American way of life?" "No." "If think of America now, what do you like most about life in America?" "The orchestras are very good." Hahaha

[@davidmathews7941]

Of course he did You stupid person Go back to Mars