Knife Knowledge: CBN vs Diamonds - Whetstone built to do the job. Everything you need to know.

[@nadm]

I apologize everyone. I’ve made a mistake. A tetrahedron is a four sided pyramid. I accidentally set a three sided pyramid. I knew the difference and yet the mistake happened. I cannot edit the video once it’s been uploaded. I apologize. I am human and I am looking to give you the best information

[@JeffSmith-eq3kc]

All good! Easy mistake to make! Tetra should make it clear for those of us following the chemistry!

[@adamwhiteson6866]

And we will never trust your sharpening skills again! Meh. In seriousness, a trivial slip that has no bearing on the content. I'm a math guy so I had to say something. Everyone could see the shape anyway. You could have wriggled out. You said "sides". The fourth "face" was on the bottom. Arguably a tetrahedron has four faces but only three sides with a bottom. :) But you didn't. You owned the mistake. Very refreshing to see, especially in these times.

[@nadm]

I’ll tell you what, I’m definitely a guy who can make some mistakes. I’m trying. I’m probably going to edit the video off line and then make this one private tonight lose the views. I’ll re-upload it and put the word revisited. Thank you for being there.

[@GrantHendrick]

@@adamwhiteson6866 I totally agree. None of us will take offense to a simple mistake. The video content is very helpful.

[@lvl18abilities]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your knowledege all these diamond stone talk made me so confused, thank you again sir

[@nadm]

I’m sorry that you got confused. The diamond product is superior if you do not use heavy pressure. It can cut through everything. CBN allows you the opportunity to not make that mistake. It has the ability to cut through everything as well and if you got a little aggressive with your pressure, you’re still going to be good. She be in does not have the ability to travel into the finer grits. And they are both typically electroplated or done on a plate where they’re bonded on something extremely flat so you’re going to get it a very even removal of metal and you don’t have to worry about it dishing out.

[@koste910]

What a great video!

[@nadm]

You are so kind! I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.

[@razorbackss]

Nice one mate. CBN is by far our favourite and most used abrasive. One thing which I'm sure was a slip of the tongue was the comment about heat and the Tormeks, certainly something to keep in mind for highspeed applications but fortunately the Tormeks are only 90rpm and it's all water-cooled so it's not something we have to worry about. Love from Australia mate, keep at it 👍

[@nadm]

Thank you for that. The information was just about devices moving at a high speed in general. That's what I was worried about by the different manufacturers. I appreciate your input. Thank you for supporting the channel. You guys don't know what it means to us.

[@razorbackss]

@@nadm anytime, love your content. Wish I was as comfortable on camera as yourself, takes a lot of guts to put yourself out there. 👍

[@nadm]

@@razorbackss thank you 🙏

[@adamwhiteson6866]

Tetrahedron is a FOUR sided shape even though it looks like triangles. Tetra = 4 & Hedra = side. Just a quibble. Great content. Great video - I had wanted to know this stuff thanks.

[@nadm]

I did say that. I actually said it and I show a picture of it. I said it’s a four sided pyramid

[@nadm]

OK so I went back and watched it and saw that I did say the wrong thing even though I knew the right answer. I cannot go back and change it. And it’s unfortunate. You cannot edit a video once it’s uploaded. I uploaded the picture of the four sided pyramid and I know that it’s a four sided pyramid and I had said it 1000 times practicing but for some reason I was looking at the picture and I don’t know why I said the wrong thing

[@nadm]

So I’m very upset because I knew that it’s a four sided shape. I got all the pictures. I studied this damn thing for so long is ridiculous. You cannot edit audio and video once it’s up on KZbin. You used to be able to do it. I will definitely re-explain it in the next video when I do a comparison again and I’m sharpening on the different stones. I’m going to be doing several more videos in the series and I will definitely correct. You’ll notice in every single person‘s comment that I apologize to them directly and explain to them that I didn’t know that it’s a four sided shape and yet somehow Godsall to let me say it has a three sided shape. I cannot actually believe that that happened and yet here I am. I wanted you to know that I didn’t know that and I do appreciate you putting it out but I’m just so upset that I cannot fix it

[@Platoface]

@@nadmwe all make mistakes. I know I do it daily. No worry. I appreciate your time, knowledge and video.

[@vindice5849]

Just ordered a set of hapstone premium cbn stones for my tsprof and I am extremely excited to try them! They come on Tuesday so I'll update asap!

[@nadm]

I would definitely love to hear back from you on the results. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.

[@vindice5849]

@nadm hey man absolutely no apologies necessary! I do appreciate the update and will say so far these cbn stones have been incredible! I absolutely love the scratch pattern they leave, and plan on adding a 50 grit and possibly the 8000 as soon as I can afford it. Thanks for everything you do, and I hope everything goes well for you!

[@nadm]

@@vindice5849 thank you

[@anthonycapo1998]

I love this video. Can't wait to see the sharpening.

[@nadm]

Thanks for coming. Thanks for the support. I want to point out that I did say something wrong. The tetrahedron shape is a four sided pyramid and not a three sided pyramid. I knew that and for some reason I still slipped up

[@danielbottner7700]

Awesome video, with plenty of technical details & real world best use case scenario information. I prefer the diamond & CBN plates for their ability cut quickly, avoiding heat build-up & big burr formation. I see many professional sharpeners use automated high speed sharpening systems. Seems like you avoid these systems. Are you, or is anyone, willing to share their reasons they avoid those systems ?

[@nadm]

I mean, I don’t really know exactly all the reasons to do so. You know that you can cut everything with these, so you just have to spend the money. The only reason to stay away from this one would be Price.

[@wd4269]

Great video. DMT has has a 4000 and a 8000 grit.

[@nadm]

I wish I had an unlimited supply of money. I'll definitely have to get into it when I get some money but we spent a lot and don't have any coming in. Thank you for your input and I do look forward to checking it out.

[@trappenweisseguy27]

I have extreme hesitation over diamond stones. About 25 years ago I bought a diamond stone from DMT, who were the likely leader at the time. These had a polygonal type pattern on them. Worked great at first, but soon wouldn’t cut at all despite scrubbing with a toothbrush and detergent etc. I returned it to the store and was given a new one. Same thing happened again. Not wanting the store to eat another loss I didn’t bother returning it. IIRC, I was using them mainly to true my King stones which of course are relatively soft by today’s standards. Diamond paste for gilding the lily I have good results with.

[@nadm]

I understand. We do explain that if you’re pressing too hard then you will break the diamonds and you will make them finer. It simply explains what happened. You only need diamonds when you’re using steel That is harder than the normal ceramic stone. You do not need them for normal Knives

[@robohippy]

I have been using CBN wheels on my wood lathe tools for a very long time. First ones were resin bonded. Didn't know about the tetrahedron/octahedron particles. CBN was developed specifically for 'hardened' metals. So old carbon steel blades can clog them up. Bench chisels and plane irons are fine. If you have one of the ceramic knives, then you have to have the diamond plates for sharpening. Interesting comment about the Atoma stones. Only recently heard about them. As for CBN, they are VERY aggressive when new. They do break in. Build up of swarf, the metal particles, seems to be a problem. Many solutions, I guess, but I haven't found one that works the way I want it to. Have to look up Big Brown Bear. Never heard of them before...

[@nadm]

I unfortunately, I’ve heard he stop making them. It was very expensive for him to make. I never got a chance to get one.

[@Serenewave777]

Very informative, keep up the great work Greg! I often go back and watch your videos (just rewatched the sink bridge shootout) as they're very helpful. I wish you continued success 🙂

[@nadm]

Thanks buddy. I still manage to say one thing wrong. A tetrahedron is a four sided pyramid. I did not realize that I said three sided and yes you do sometimes mess up.

[@Serenewave777]

@@nadm We're often our own worst critics, but thanks for continuing to strive to get better!

[@shadowx8405]

Great channel. You cover issues that many channels overlook. When you have ALL the information/specs., it's easier to find what your need are, based on your usage.

[@nadm]

Glad to help! Thank you for coming and your support. I appreciate your comments. We have a lot to learn so thank you.

[@KendrasEdge757]

I BELIEVE the diamond emulsions are INTENDED for stropping. I could be wrong of course as I’m kinda new to freehand sharpening. For the money, the sharpal 162N double sided diamond stone is INCREDIBLE and unbelievable how even the diamonds are deposited with no cross-contamination on either side as most double sided stones can’t help but have. Outdoors55 has a great video on this stone with magnified images of the diamond coverage on both sides-320 course and 1200 fine side. Check them out if you haven’t already. Great stuff brother! God bless~

[@Japaneseknifestudio]

Imo nsk shintered diamond Whetstone is the best diamond stone. I would love to see you review it once . Thank you for your content always .Very informative

[@nadm]

Please send me a link. I would love to learn about it.

[@Japaneseknifestudio]

@@nadm Hi Greg this is the Nsk shintered diamond stone. I wish to find 2 stones one for thinning blade and another to fix chips or reshape the blade. Your videos are really great starting point to research products.I was researching more about cbn stones.(somehow im getting to poltava cbn stones- the manufacturer claims that their technology creates a longer lasting stone than the electroplated ones.) Have you ever heard of poltava's cbn stone? Thank you for your great content always Regards Balazs from Australia

[@nadm]

@@Japaneseknifestudio I have not, but I will look into it now.

[@MTknives]

Great video breaking down the differences!

[@nadm]

Thank you sir

[@sonkekoster3105]

Great video - thank you!

[@nadm]

Glad you liked it!

[@robertdavis171]

Very informative. So many possibilities. Can't wait to see a CBN cut the knife material.

[@nadm]

We are going to be doing that on some very hard steel. We're going to first do something that we are familiar with and then we're gonna do things that are on the much higher Rockwell hardness scale.

[@nadm]

Thanks for coming. I’m so upset that I actually said something wrong. I know that a tetrahedron is a four sided pyramid in some reason I said a three sided pyramid. Just made a Freudian slip and I’m sorry

[@dimmacommunication]

You should have tried a Venev stone , never tried since now I don't need more stones.

[@nadm]

It is on my list. I can't buy everything. People are giving me these things. I mean I've had six things given to me over the entire life of the channel. I'm out a lot of money. I'm doing the best I can.

[@dimmacommunication]

@@nadm Yeah sure 👍😃 was just pointing that name since you talked about bonded stones 😃. That's why I'm always talking about lower price options if you notice. For example I've bought the Takamura SG2 you reviewed but love my Xinzuo ans Tojiro ,both sub 100$ . A user told me I was spamming junk stuff , but I would never have been into knives If I had to spend 300$ for my 1st knife. Bought a 80$ Tojiro from Japan as 1st knife and a 20$ EZE-LAP 1k diamond stone. Being budget concious is the key in life.

[@alaneisenberg4203]

Well done! I had no idea what CBN was until now!

[@nadm]

Thank you 🙏

[@nadm]

It was pointed out that I said something wrong. I did say something wrong and I knew better. I Already Knew That a tetrahedron was a four sided pyramid but for some reason I said a three sided pyramid. I don’t know why I had a Freudian slip but here we are. I just wanna make sure you have the right information. I apologize

[@tacticalcenter8658]

Great video. There's a lot more about diamonds and CBN that few know. I guess you learn a lot when these people do r&d for new products. But they don't share most of the Info's.

[@nadm]

Thanks guys. I didn’t mess up one thing and I accidentally said that a tetrahedron was a three sided pyramid instead of a four sided pyramid. I know the difference and I don’t know how I slipped up. I’m doing the best I can

[@tacticalcenter8658]

@@nadm don't worry, its all good

[@andrebaran7337]

Very informative video.

[@nadm]

I’m sure you get something out of it. Thanks for coming as always!

[@hubrechtpeeters644]

Why do we assume that diamond will break under the pressure of handsharpening an CBN not ? Diamond having a hardness of 10 Mosh, CBN 9,5 and nickel 4 Mosh. I would think ripping out diamond and CBN particles out of a nickel bonding would be the primary cause of loss in performance, and not the idea that diamond breaks and CBN does not break while sharpening manually.

[@nadm]

I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment. I was definitely commenting on what I have learned through the information available. I have not had that problem as you said.

[@grimreaper337]

I have Big Brown Bear's super vitrified diamond waterstone in 400 grit . Awesome, best , ultimate are the words I'd use . And yes , I have 3 naniwa resin diamond waterstones. Silicon carbide, ceramic stones , suehiro , shapton , kitayama, king neo . My favorite is the Triple B stone . Still love my Dan's whetstones. 10x3x1 first grades, but they can't cut k390 or other super steels . The triple B stones are next level . If there's anything better , I'd like to know . Would love to add a CBN stone to the collection.

[@nadm]

I would love to grab some of his stones as well, but they’re either always sold out or I’m not willing to part with that much money. Sometimes when I get the inkling, then they’re gone and I think that’s God’s way of saying I shouldn’t have one right now.

[@robertmceuen3630]

I guess you are a "stone nerd". I think you could get your knives razor sharp with 4 or 5 hones.

[@grimreaper337]

@robertmceuen3630 I've been sharpening freehand since I was a teenager. Over 45 years . Oh well . And yeah , I can get tree topping sharp . 😎

[@davesmith5656]

Question: monster question! What knife would you recommend, please, as a good, solid, sharpenable, chip-resistant knife? I get tired of going through an entire grit progression to get chips out of my knives. I have been careful, but I forgot and sliced along the bone of a pork chop - and got chips that are clearly visible under a microscope.

[@nadm]

Anything above a hardness of 61 is gonna have an issue. You have to go soft German steel to not have chips. But anything above 62 is just asking for trouble. You shouldn't be dealing with any type of bone with a knife that hard. I really do like the Takamura products. SG2 steal or Chromax

[@helterskelter156]

CBN is great, but its advantage (mostly) is for high speed grinding wheels, which generated extreme heat. Diamond grinding wheels get absolutely destroyed from heat generation. While CBN does extremely well, with only 10% energy transfer to the working medium. A typical alumina carbide stone, for example, transfers 80% of the energy to its working medium. In a “bench stone”, If you don’t use much force, then diamonds will cut faster, better, and last longer than a CBN stone.

[@nadm]

Absolutely. Thank you for the detail. I have learned about this but the science on this is interesting.

[@schleifjunkieshannsplag8635]

i couldn't have explained it better myself Greg. it's obvious that you've been studying this stuff a lot. the person who helped you tremendously was scott, who has a vast knowledge of these processes. perhaps your point is underscored by the fact that the industry has been using cBN for several years when it comes to grinding. however, when it comes to polishing, diamond is unbeatable. especially the policristaline diamond as used by Scott in his Gunnyglide, delivers an unbeatable finish. i am now incredibly hooked to see what comes out of the grinding comparisons. keep up the good work and always be nice to your camera wife :). you know, happy wife, happy life

[@dimmacommunication]

Sorry if I sound dumb , but I'm cofused about gunnyglide . Is it a lubrificant or a lubrifican/abrasive hybrid?

[@nadm]

Yes sir but I am so upset that I accidentally said that a tetrahedron was a three sided shape when it’s a four sided shape. I can’t fix it in the video. I can only tell the individual commenters. I knew better and yet I still said something wrong in the video. I did do my research and I’m excited to have Scott Gunn on as an interview is being planned right now. I will hug and kiss my wife. We’re a good team. I’m excited about making the other videos

[@nadm]

@@dimmacommunication Gunny glide is a product being produced by Scott Gunn that will be a lubricant. It’s already available. You can put it on your folding knife or you can use it on your firearm to help everything slide. Gunny juice is the diamond emulsion. Sometimes people get that backwards

[@dimmacommunication]

@@nadm You can make a pinned comment to correct yourself, it will be on top of the comments

[@nadm]

@@dimmacommunication I was literally thinking the same thing. I appreciate it

[@louis2p]

Hey, What's that chromax knife, it's amazing !

[@nadm]

So, I have it and I’m so excited to use it. I haven’t done the unboxing. It’s a ridiculous laser! It’s so affordable. $125 at Tokushu Knife. I saw Knife grinders get it down to a 39 on the VESS tester. We’re definitely going to have fun with that

[@jasonerickson1033]

Thanks for the great info which one u like better

[@nadm]

They both cut equally fast and if you don’t press too hard they’re both even and the diamonds would last longer but the CBN technically cuts faster because of more cutting fatsts and leave shallow or scratches so it doesn’t remove as much metal. The two manufacturers have a noise level because of how hard the material is. You have to get used to it being a little louder. I’m going to be filming me doing all of them and letting you know what’s going on. I don’t really have an opinion right now

[@timursadriev7987]

In video you talked about CBN powder crystals that are fixed in resin. I bought an CBN-sharpening stones from the city of Poltava, Ukraine, and the manufacturer claims that "...In these stones CBN are bonded by a copper-tin metal. This distinguishes them from Chinese (bonded by electroplated) and from European ones (on a resin bond). That is, cubic nitride boride (CBN) is added to boiling copper-tin lava and it is "baked" in a metal base. This technology is available ONLY at the Poltava Diamond Tools factory (!), which makes the sharpening process with these types of stones the strongest and most durable in the WORLD - you can sharpen up to 77,000 knives (depending on the Grit size) with one bar!" What do you think, is it possible to added CBN to copper-tin lava, or it's fake?

[@stranik1966]

Dear Mr. (-Mrs.) @timursadriev7987, According to your question, I can tell you that it's not a fake that cubic nitride boride (CBN) can bonded by copper-tin lava and it is "baked" in a metal base. This technology is a real. I know it for sure because I'm the official dealer PDT factory in Norn and Sout America :-).

[@nadm]

I'm sorry you misunderstood. In the video, the CBN stone that I was referring to was electroplated as well. I was referring to the diamonds being resin bonded. I do not believe yours is fake. I believe yours is electroplated.

[@charlesg5085]

Good to see a burley, proud gay man in the sharpening space. He is just so positivly in your face, flame on blay.

[@dimmacommunication]

Damn you went all in 😂😂 💪👍

[@nadm]

We are trying! I did make a mistake and accidentally say that a tetrahedron was a three sided pyramid when it’s a four sided pyramid. I already knew that and I practiced it 1 million times and yet somehow I had a Freudian slip at the last second on video and I cannot fix it. So I apologize

[@AJ-by6pd]

What blade shape and knife maker was your ZDP-189?

[@nadm]

Yoshida I wanna point out that I did say something wrong in the video. I am fully aware that a tetrahedron is a four sided shape and yes I accidentally said three sided and I can’t fix it now. I can only apologize

[@AJ-by6pd]

@@nadm that’s okay. I haven’t bought any new knives since December. Just curious what new ones were in your collection. Will you be doing a new video about that? I was able to get a pretty cool new stone in January. It’s a synthetic Red Aoto that acts a lot like a natural stone about 3,000 grit. It definitely out performs my Naniwa chosera 3k pretty easily.

[@nadm]

It’s funny, I have so many new ones. I literally cannot keep up with a Videos and the new knives. We’re trying to plan so much. We have a lot of personal stuff going on that takes precedent. Yes we keep trying to do one in boxing a month but I am needing to do 10 of them right now. I’m excited to show you so many new things. I post previews on Instagram and in Facebook forms. I’ll keep you informed. Some new stuff I’m revealing tomorrow on Instagram in the forums. Make sure you follow us. I’ll be Sharpening The ZDP189 on these videos

[@TheScrawnyLumberjack]

I’ve had more diamonds rip out of a electroplated DMT plates than out of any resin plates

[@nadm]

Thank you for that. It's good to get input from other people and hear about that.

[@DonsWoodies]

Having come from a manufacturing background (Tool & Die) I have a lot of experience with diamonds and CBN. Of course, that's mostly with grinding wheels, not plates used by hand. So, here's a question for you or another reader that has used the Naniwa resin bond plates. With grinding wheels, there are two ways of dealing with them. First is truing, where you run the wheel over a soft metal to make the OD of the wheel smoothed out to be able to get a smooth finish on the part to be ground. Second is dressing, where you run a soft stone into the wheel to remove some of the resin bond that has been smoothed over and expose the CBN or Diamond particles to allow them to cut. I'm wondering if the Naniwa plates would work the same way. IOW, do the diamond particles get flattened down to the resin to create a "too smooth" surface that requires a way to remove some of the resin to expose the diamond again for better cutting performance? Not having one of these stones, I don't know if that's a thing with these or not. Hopefully I've explained the truing/dressing process adequately to make sense.

[@DonsWoodies]

P.S. Only recently found your channel. Very informative and entertaining.

[@nadm]

This is not a process I have had to do it because I have not had to use them very much. I have one lightning stone that is made of diamond by Nanohone. Is the only one that I know that is capable of removing a layer of diamonds. I have not had to do either of your processes even though I have heard of them both. Diamonds, obviously being the hardest, because they're made out of polycrystalline diamonds, they are subject to breaking due to their fragility. You're not supposed to press too hard while moving across them because you could snap. I will be interested in doing some of the things you said when the time comes. I am happy that I have the diamond plate from Nanohone to accomplish this task.

[@andrewb8548]

Do a video explaining the difference between FEPA, JIS, and ASTM. Then attempt to explain the DMT EEF "8000". Because the DMT line seems to use ASTM right up to the introduction of the 8000, and now the 4000 jump to JIS. It's almost like they are marketing to ignorance. 600/1200/8000 is the claim. But by the chart it can only be either 800/2000/8000 JIS OR 600/1200/2000 ASTM. DMT hung up on me when I called.

[@nadm]

So apparently, you know more than me. I'm trying to research some of this information and you have way more going on with it than I do. I can only keep looking, but I would definitely love to hear back from you if you learn more. You are my teacher.

[@bidin5253]

Hey Greg do you have any experience using Belgium cuticule

[@nadm]

I do not but I would love it if he would send me a link and I could look into it and see about ordering something

[@dropdtuned1]

I have tried them as well as the purple BBW stones and they both do a good job. I tried them more for straight razors rather then knives though. Personally, for the money I would go with japanese natural stones. What kinds of info are you looking for? So I can be more specific.

[@nadm]

@@dropdtuned1 I just don’t know anything about what is good or what is bad or the rating system or how hard do they get in the house after they get and how do they wear and are they sealed

[@bidin5253]

@@nadm i saw it sale on Etsy while I looking for a natural stone there. It pretty expensive though cost at least 200 dollars for standard stone size

[@bidin5253]

@@nadm when you have time check out Etsy so many interesting stuff they have there I buy many things there including Knife

[@sharpfactory3705]

Man thats interesting

[@nadm]

Thank you for watching your video! Thank you for your support!

[@dropdtuned1]

Another great video. I would love to see a whetstone wars with the CBN vs the Naniwa diamond stone on very hard stainless steels (as well as Super Blue). I have 3 of the full size Naniwa diamond stones (that I first learned about on your channel!!!), where my normal go to stones are Naniwa professional/chosera. In regards to ZDP-189 and HAP40, they do sharpen a bit quicker on the diamond stones, but its not magically better than my main stones and still takes a lot more effort than softer steel, as to be expected. IMO I think money is better spent on something else rather than the Naniwa diamond stones, $200 a pop for the full size stones. Now, if the CBN significantly outshines the Naniwa diamond stone, I just may be interested :) Keep up the great work!

[@nadm]

So we actually have that one coming up. It’s gonna be a minute. I have the Naniwa diamond stones but in the compact field stone version. It’s literally the same exact stone but not at the same size. It is an aluminum base with a 1 inch resin bond of diamonds. If you check the stats on both they are exactly the same but the field stones are smaller and I already own them. I appreciate your input on the diamond versus CBN. I only have 1ZDP189 knife and I just filmed a video that you haven’t seen in which I sharpen a hap 40 on CBN. We are going to do the battle but I think we’re gonna have to do two different types of steel. Maybe will do the two knives made of super blue and then will use a ZDP189 or a half 40 and will do one side of the knife with one stone and the other side of the knife with the other stone. I can’t go around buying copies of very expensive knives

[@MrPhoenix357]

Outside of being a sushi chef, why would anyone want or need a knife with a hardness over 64 HRC?

[@nadm]

at first, I would think that it would be to not have to sharpen it. But you're going to have to sharpen it, so I'm with you.

[@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind]

Coming from an industrial setting extensively using both diamond and CBN abrasives... Unless you're working in a high speed grinding situation where there is enough gear build up at the cutting edge that iron can leech carbon from diamond. There is no significant difference between the two abrasives, on a practical level knife sharpeners are never going to see a real difference between diamond and CBN abrasives. The style of boding (plating, resin bonded, cemented, etc...) and the process used by the individual manufacturer when making the tool is going to be the difference. Diamond vs CBN abrasive media for knife sharpening is equivalent to M390 vs 20CV

[@nadm]

I agree. The only time you have problems is like you said when you're using high speed. The diamonds can form a new compound at high temperatures with the carbon. Other than that the diamonds can actually break because of their brittleness. But if you use everything properly then there's no reason to use one over the other.

[@DonsWoodies]

Also coming from a machinist background using diamond and CBN, both resin and vitrified bonds, This is the first time I've seen the diamond/steel reaction mentioned outside of our shop. Yep, a real thing and nice to see it mentioned. Not gonna happen pushing that knife over a flat stone by hand, but still a thing. 🙂

[@nadm]

@@DonsWoodies Thank you for that. But I’ve learned is that it takes a pretty high speed to see that reaction happen. Most of the stuff we’re working with is never going to reach that rate of speed or that temperature. Thank you for commenting

[@DonsWoodies]

@@nadm yes, absolutely not going to happen without a grinding wheel involved. I remember many many years ago when this was explained to me, being amazed - “you mean you can hurt a diamond?” Lol.

[@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind]

@@DonsWoodies Yep, I'm a machinist as well. Primarily dealing with crankshafts and bearing surfaces relating to natural gas. We're using Diamond for carbide coated surfaces, but anything uncoated which is primarily 4130 or 1060 we use CBN

[@DonsWoodies]

I want to point out a problem with the Amazon link to the Atoma diamond plates. It's not your fault, but Amazon has recently become more of a wild west zone with their suppliers. This is a specific problem with the Atoma diamond plates. I found this out the hard way recently when I ordered an Atoma 400 (which you link to) and received a total POS instead of a true Atoma. Amazon allowed me to return it, but I found a few other people had come across the same thing. It seems to be a crap shoot now whether you get a true Atoma or a knock off from Amazon. Again, not your fault because months ago this wasn't the problem it is now. I just wanted to point that out in case you want to research it yourself since Amazon has dropped the ball here.

[@nadm]

I am so sorry about that. You know I can't control that but I appreciate you putting it out. I'll go in and try to get rid of the link. I apologize.

[@DonsWoodies]

@@nadm No need to apologize. Your link was a few months old, and most likely Amazon was still being legit back then. They have really gone downhill lately with certain products.

[@dimmacommunication]

A perfect compromise is my chinese diamond plate imho. The hardest steel I've tried is SG2 and eats it like butter. Consider that SG2 is much more wear resistant than VG-10 , 3% vanadium is no joke.

[@nadm]

Send me a link to the one you want me to look at please. By the way, I didn’t make a mistake and accidentally say that a tetrahedron is a three sided shape when it’s a four sided shape. I know that and I knew it before I made the video and for some reason I slipped up and said the wrong thing

[@dimmacommunication]

@@nadm Don't worry this is a passion not a univeristy essay.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

Chinese diamond plates are terrible. Avoid them

[@dimmacommunication]

@@tacticalcenter8658 lol nope, totally the opposite. Cheap and really effective. My DMT lasted a month, my chinese ones still work since 2015 😉😉. Depends on the producer , but being cheap I just bought them. A DMT is 100$ , not really a coffee.

[@tacticalcenter8658]

@@dimmacommunication lol your just advertising for them. They really are not good, and not the spec advertised. I don't buy DMT. And when you do, you have to use a light hand. Or you are the one ruining the diamonds. Many have lasted 15 years with DMT. Bonded diamond stones are a better choice for those who have a heavy hand.

[@dani_3148]

👌🔥👏👏👏

[@nadm]

Thank you

[@jamalama5548]

You must have a wonderful wife that lets you sharpen on the kitchen island. In lucky if mine lets me in the kitchen period!

[@nadm]

I'm sorry about that my friend. Yes I have a great wife.

[@PATISHAH]

You claim that all particles have an exact mathematical shape, but they don't. All particles have a chaotic shape in the form of fragments and grains

[@nadm]

I think there was some confusion in the statement. I did not say that. If you took it that way, then I didn't mean it that way. I did talk about the fact that the have the monocrystalline shape or the polycrystalline shape when it comes to diamonds. Each piece has its own number of cutting facets. I said diamonds are extremely hard, and that makes them brittle. If you push too hard, you can break them, which, of course would change the size and the shape to a certain degree. When they're in bedded in the electroplate, then only certain sides are sticking up. I actually said a lot in the video so I'm sorry that what you took from it.

[@PATISHAH]

@@nadm the particles that initially cover the plate do not have any profile shape, they are all fragments with a chaotic shape.

[@trumanhw]

There's no such thing as a 3 sided pyramid. By definition: If it has flat surfaces and is enclosed -- it MUST have 4. Four is the minimum number of flat surfaces in which ... an object with 'volume' can be enclosed. Not 3, but 4

[@nadm]

OK, so I miss spoke when I said the words but if you watch the video, then you saw that I inserted the photographs and the correct terminology in the video. I did take the time to put the extra information in there. People do slip up and they make mistakes and for that I apologize. It's unfortunate that you cannot edit the video once it is already up on KZbin and once the comments and things started happening I had to leave it up. I do understand the difference and when you're making a video for the public and you're trying to remember a lot of information you can sometimes have a Freudian slip. Please have patience with us human beings. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.

[@tinman1955]

You mean diamonds are not forever?

[@michael_the_chef]

My atoma 400 is 2 years in use and almost no degredation in performance....

[@dimmacommunication]

@@michael_the_chef my chinese diamond stones work like new , only stone that was garbage was the DMT

[@nadm]

Apparently! I do wanna point out that I made a mistake in the video. I am very aware that a tetrahedron is a four sided pyramid and yet somehow I said a three sided pyramid. I don’t know how I made that mistake in the video but yet I cannot fix it

[@jasoncampbell6222]

What a series of ridiculous statements that you made, clearly you're sponsored to promote CBN products, CBN is 64% as tough as diamond and has yet to be confirmed as a tried and tested superior alternative to diamond stones.

[@nadm]

I'm not sponsored by anybody. Trust me when I tell you we don't make money on this. We spent $60,000 on this KZbin channel and only made 4000 over three years. Nobody's paying me money to do this. And we're almost done with the channel. It's not been advantageous. We spent three years doing this and made 307 videos. We're very unappreciated, but we do love the people who do care about us. The information I gave you was the current information from talking to the people at sharpening supplies, as well as to different purveyors of different products. I even talked to Scott Gunn who does not make any CBN products whatsoever. We just talked about metallurgy and the different types of material used. I don't have the income to grab every product out there. You're more than welcome to purchase something and send it to me. I would love to see your channel whenever you started, but please don't tell me that I'm being pushed one way or the other. The one thing I can always say about this channel is that we're honest, no matter what. I have had people send me stuff and they have gotten reviews that were not favorable.