Knife Knowledge: Lapping Plates/Flattening Plates

[@lz_377]

The rust erasers are amazing for cleaning around the house I’ve found! Also, doing what they’re made for and removing rust from metal lol. Or rust from most things.

[@nadm]

Good to know!

[@robertdavis171]

Yes, great for removing rust from hammer heads, etc.

[@bozoedge]

Just a note for conditioning and de-loading stones with rust erasers… new ones and old crusty rust erasers are not a good idea for cleaning your stones unless I wash the stone off after but still is a problem with particles of rubber and small particles of metal from the eraser embedding into the stone.. so just be mindful of this is a good idea. But they are handy non the less.

[@gregorybupp]

The atoma is an aluminum block FWIW.

[@nadm]

Awesome! Still subject to rust!

[@TylrVncnt]

I think the surface finish left on the whetstone is probably the most overlooked / underrated aspect too

[@nadm]

Thank you!

[@lz_377]

So on the rust erasers I’ve had good experiences with them on the Cerax series but it completely destroyed the finish on my King 6k. I had to end up using a diamond stone and removing quite a bit of material. My guess is that it’s decent for lower grit stones for cleaning but, for just a few bucks more you can get a decent nagura.

[@nadm]

Very good to learn that from you. I'll have to check on that with my king.

[@lz_377]

@@nadm the one it ruined for me was the 1k/6k combo stone. Not sure if they are identical to a plain King 6k. Yea try it out and see what happens. It can always be reversed with that nano-hone beauty you got there 😁.

[@ChillyH2Omg]

Similar experience using a “fine” rust eraser on Shapton Pro 2K. Totally ruined the cutting surface. Came here to see best way to correct this.

[@lz_377]

@@ChillyH2Omg use a diamond stone and just take off the layer of residue. Or whatever flattening stone you have.

[@gregorybupp]

Typically for JNATs the diamond plate is still used to lap the stone, and then the nagura/tomo nagura is used to generate the slurry. Also with JNATS and polishing/knife work, conditioning the surface of the stone changes how it performs, so you may move through multiple different plates/nagura to alter how the surface is prepared for the blade.

[@nadm]

Good to know! I haven't gotten into polishing yet but I'm looking forward to it. I'm glad that I have several of different grit ratings and textures to do that. That was awesome

[@gregorybupp]

@@nadm Yep you are very well setup for it!

[@nadm]

@@gregorybupp thank you

[@theunabiker4133]

Good info. Thank you. I have an atoma 140. Can I use it on any of my stones (Morihei 500, 1000, 3000, king 8000)? And, what’s it best application? Also, about Nagura stones, different grit Nagura, are they designed for specific grit stones? Or, can they be used on any stone? Thanks for your feedback!

[@nadm]

The 140 is very aggressive. You can definitely use it to make your stones level and that will get it done the fastest. You can even use that to get a slurry. It just seems a bit much if your stones are pretty flat. It seems like you're gonna waste a lot of stone. They make a 400 as well as a 1000. The natural Nagura is good to get the slurry going and generally it's going to match the grid of the stone you're using it with because you really don't wanna lose a lot of stone but you just wanna rush it up enough to get your slurry going. You don't want to get a lot of deep scratches in your stone Stone

[@theunabiker4133]

@@nadm your advice would be to get the atoma 400 then? Perhaps the 1000 for stone grits 2000 and up? Or can the 400 do the trick alone? I understand the point about not taking to much off the stones when flattening. It seems like the 140 is aggressive but perhaps requires fewer strokes on a stone… Thank you for your reply sir!

[@nadm]

@@theunabiker4133 you understood that perfectly. Good luck.

[@eee2115]

When using atoma plates to flatten, can you still use them to sharpen knives or do they need to be dedicated flattening stones?

[@nadm]

You can absolutely use them to sharpen a knife. I need to apologize for taking so long. I've had a surgery on my knee and some other things going on. We've had the court case for my car accident. We had to deal with that as well. We've also had some other major things happening personally. Deaths in the family and lots of arrangements to be made. Also, I'll let you know that I will be having another major surgery in June and will not be making it to the Blade show. I will be out of work for two weeks because I'm having all the extra skin cut off of my body. We do apologize for an interruption of videos if it were to happen. Will try to shoot some head for you guys so we can fill the space. That being said, thank you for checking out the show. Thank you for your support and your comment.

[@MrEmpirestate714]

What's a good general grit to have for the atoma? Good for all around flattening? Would it be the 400?

[@nadm]

400 is a great place to start but I swear than 140 is really good for the stone that's worn down. It just saves you so much time.

[@MrEmpirestate714]

@@nadm ok so then assuming I don't let my stones get really worn then the 400 should work out great. Thanks for getting back to me!

[@hoggif]

I would make a difference with cleaning stones and naguras for slurrry. Cleaning stones shipped with suehiros are great for cleaning and some of them like the 500 grit one leaves 500 grit residue. Good for cleaning the stone but not good for slurry on finer stone. Depending on stone a cleaning stone that does not leave residue can raise a slurry. On some combinations you want the nagura to wear and leave particles for a slurry. Then you of course need a grit that is not more coarse than the stone used. For flattening I find small cleaners/naguras mostly useless. Larger leveling stones and Atoma plates that are larger help making the stone flat. With small stone you get is locally level but it can still be far from flat on larger scale.

[@nadm]

I'm definitely learning about the slurry and knife polishing. I'm not a knife polisher but I'm excited to learn. It's nice to know that you can control the texture of the slurry

[@hoggif]

@@nadm Controlling slurry seems so difficult to master. Too many different stones to try out and too many slurry stones adds more variables. I have only a few stones I'm very comfortable with my slurry handling. I guess learning to sharpen and details like slurry is a life time trip. After about 30 years of sharpening (not professionally) I still find subjects that make me notice what else there is to learn. I've been polishing several skandi grind knives lately. The first ones seemes so much more difficult that the las ones. Getting the curved surface on tip gives me troubels. When it shines like a flat mirror it is a joy to watch. (Yes, cheap practice knives also need the correction of factory mistakes first that adds to it) Very similar to you polishing video: make the groundwork well with coarse stones and when the profile is even, the rest is easy. Harry in the beginning and you'll end up doing the job twise. I've once reprofiled and polished a katana (western made). It was an experience and it took few weeks to work on and off in the evenings after work. I learned a lot on that one!

[@nadm]

@@hoggif Thank you for all of that. Thank you for taking the time. I look forward to learning everything you just said.

[@hoggif]

@@nadm I'm looking forward to learning that too. Having done that makes me no master yet.

[@schleifjunkies]

If u own my cbn plates u van use the 400 or 800 side also to flaten each stone 👍

[@nadm]

Yes sir! Hope you're doing well. I'm still learning to use the Tormek. I'll need to get that Japanese Waterstone to make a big difference I think.

[@andrebaran7337]

I have a few Nagura Stones that came with different stones that I bought . My question is are the inner changeable with different grit stones? Or do they have to be used with the grit stone they came with.

[@gregorybupp]

You can mix and match, just do not mix synthetic nagura with a natural stone.

[@nadm]

Read the comments above from GB. He has a lot to say about this subject

[@1SUPERNAUT1]

Source for good jnats?

[@nadm]

instagram.com/lacasadetoishi/ Just message him privately. Almost all of my stones came from him. He is awesome. Ships everything really good.

[@Man_Emperor_of_Mankind]

Why is it a jump from naniwa to the atoma's? There's a lot of suitable diamond lapping plates that will work for stones that are priced below the Atoma's

[@nadm]

I was more focusing on the type of stone that was so cheap all the way to the type of stone that had diamonds but yes there are 1 million different lapping plates made by different manufacturers

[@dadadadave100]

Aloha my friend hope your doing well

[@nadm]

All good! Thanks for coming and supporting!

[@gregorybupp]

To me for a flattening stone, the design of the nanohone is weird. The buttons mean you are more likely to miss spots. Also, I don't think it is about the abrasive of the rust eraser clogging the stone, it is about the adhesive which is like rubber and could break down very finely. Even for using the rust eraser, I recommend people just get finger stones instead - it will typically serve the purpose better for the knives too to get rid of rust.

[@nadm]

Like I said, I never had a problem. Finger stone seem a little bit advanced for some people. They're also not readily available for your average knife sharpener

[@atonenjr]

I use a Nano Hone NL-5 star patterned lapping plate that has a similar principle: raised spots. No spots missed on the stone, keeps the stones flat, clean and cutting aggressively. The concept works in my opinion. I paid my own money for the plate.

[@nadm]

@@atonenjr Love it!

[@Razmann1337]

If i flatten my stones, i try to go from finest stone to coarse. So even if i take over some abrasive, it realy doesnt matter too much.

[@nadm]

I don't think so. People will say that it does. You and I know that that metal is kind of pressing through the load up or slurry. I don't wanna get into verbal arguments. I agree that if we have some load up from another Stone that I don't think it's gonna matter very much. I would not concern yourself greatly but if you can try to do something about it then maybe try!

[@GlennInLaguna]

Greg, You said 400 to 500 on the sand paper. I'm not to sure about that. 400 to 500 is very fine. I think the 220 grit Wet/Dry you had there is considered best. Just FYI.

[@nadm]

So I had 220 on the table but I just meant that because you might not need to do a lot of flattening. But you're right. I'm just depends on how aggressive you need to be.

[@robertdavis171]

I flatten my rummage sale oil stones on the sidewalk. These thing are REALLY dished out. After flattening, I used them with dish soap and water rather than going back to oil. Another thing I do for rough cutting is use flat vitreous china tiles. Not normal tile. That's too soft. Vitreous china is the material toilets are made from. They really last a long time, but they tend to have a bump ot 2 and not be super flat. It may be foolish, but I'm afraid of those su]er hard stones making my $100 Atoma wear out quicker. BTW, I bought the Atoma 400, and then added the adhesive 1200 sheet to make a dual-sided diamond stone. Saved a few bucks, and less storage space needed.

[@nadm]

You are a legend my friend! Good work!

[@BuJammy]

Yeh, I cannot use the old Norton / Alox vitrified stones on my Atomas either.

[@bowow0807]

FYI TripleB's super vitrified stones that he sent for testing to Portaland Knife House are still in use today! Over 30,000 knives sharpened since they got them and still going strong. For any normal users those stones would easily last a lifetime with a rare flattening every few years. You could sharpen 1 knife on those stones every single day and they'd probably still outlast you, your kids and possibly grandkids. With some simple math and conservative estimates let's say they last PKH 5 years, that's about 50,000 knives for the lifetime of the stone, sharpening 1 knife a day would be the equivalent of about 137 YEARS of sharpening ONE knife a day before the stone needs to be retired.

[@nadm]

I agree. The fact is that the diamonds are baked into it. You don't need to press too hard. It really should last you a lifetime

[@bowow0807]

@@nadm Yeah, I would love to own a set one day. Hopefully you'll be able to get some and test them out! haha Though getting those stones doesn't mean throwing out all the others haha, polishing single bevels is a whole other ball game and you need variety

[@georgeyoung4292]

I have venev 3years and i know they will last me a lifetime too.. I have vitrified diamond from practical sharpening... Its a novelty!!! It could be helpful for some professional sharpening service but for home use , complete waste of money (they are amazing but unnecessary and brutally expansive) Its like buying Rolls Royce and use it to go to Grocery store ones a week (still nice but dumb) 🤷‍♂️

[@gruanger]

:)

[@nadm]

:)