Knocking Down Welds, Seams and High Spots for an Invisible Rust Repair

[@UndergroundPaintKing]

Your videos make me want to do some body work every time I watch them...great work!

[@LakesideAutobody]

Thanks UPK - great to hear from you :)

[@tony1798]

Great job. Like the way you left the high spots and showed how to get out of that situation. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@LakesideAutobody]

Thanks 👍

[@johnyhefner]

I really appreciate these videos, and the manner in which they are made.

[@michaelamans2780]

Well said, me too.

[@wkw4095]

Weird times....it's like learning in an osmosis manner....my favorite way. Just watch and watch and watch until it sinks in and then fool around with scraps. :)

[@patrickreynolds801]

Thanks for the professional advise. Your videos are helping my restore a 65 mustang

[@LakesideAutobody]

Keep me posted on how it's going Patrick :)

[@patrickreynolds801]

@@LakesideAutobody definitely. Do you have a Facebook page?

[@LakesideAutobody]

I do but don't use it too much - facebook.com/lakeside.autobody.2024/@@patrickreynolds801 Let me know on the comments here if you post something there - I'll check it out :)

[@billarroo1]

That gun was a DeVilbis MBC, a good gun , I use mine for spot repair, Real World Bodywork, GREAT VIDEO Thanks William Orange county, ca.

[@LakesideAutobody]

Thanks - glad you enjoyed it. Have a great week :)

[@triples4good]

You make it look so easy. Shows what ears of experience does for you. I've got to repair rust on my Land Cruiser doors and I'm debating whether lap joints or buttwelds would be better to keep rust away. Either way this video is going to help a lot. Thanks.

[@LakesideAutobody]

Watch this, it may help make up your mind - kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHqsoKGAhLulpZY

[@triples4good]

Lakeside Autobody I think on the doors where I can't see behind, I will do a small lap joint on the outer skin. I haven't figured out exactly how it would be best to do the inner skin. Thanks very much for the great advice and help. Have a great weekend.

[@LakesideAutobody]

@@triples4good Not sure if this will help but this is a vid on fixing inner door frames: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2PQo2N5a5enp5I

[@johnladouceur9939]

I started doing drywall finishing before doing body work and a friend of mine started a drywall business and on his very first job he called me and said he was having a terrible time sanding down the high spots on his seams and asked if I could come take a look. I went down to the job and he finished every seam in a three bedroom apartment with mortar.

[@LakesideAutobody]

Wow! How the heck did you fix that? Thanks for the story John.

[@johnladouceur9939]

@@LakesideAutobody A belt sander and a sh!t load of joint compound LOL

[@LakesideAutobody]

@@johnladouceur9939 That's just a great story. My dad once tried to weld a gas tank for a Chevy PU. He said I was weak - "Go fill it with water and drag it back." I did - then I hid behind a tractor and watched. As soon as he touched the torch to the small pin hole the whole tank opened up like a giant mouth - BOOM! -flames all over the garage floor on top of the water and him standing there with the torch and rod. I still laugh every now and then about that :)

[@johnladouceur9939]

@@LakesideAutobody Ha ha... another great story. I love KZbin!

[@GlenHavard]

really needed this, I have heaps of lap patches to do on my 84 Econovan Restore

[@LakesideAutobody]

Glad you could use the info - let me know how it goes :)

[@MidwestToolReview]

Does the body hammer need to have a pointed tip? Would a similar hammer with a wider tip work? I have a snap-on body hammer with a wider, horizontal tip that seems like it would work as good as, or better than a pointed tipped hammer. Thoughts?

[@LakesideAutobody]

That will work - sometimes I use that hammer 'cause I can't find the pointy one - just use the corner of the horizontal tip. Anything can actually work - even a punch or screw driver used w/ a claw hammer :)

[@41plymouthnut87]

Thanks for all the great videos.

[@LakesideAutobody]

You're welcome - have a great week :)

[@greggoforth6916]

Hi, your videos are fantastic. Was wondering if it would be possible for you to comment on the amount of time the repair would/should typically take you. This would help viewers like me understand what we are getting into. Lastly, have you ever used a panel flanger tool from Eastwood to lower overlap or the 'Perfect panel prep tool' also from Eastwood that makes a valley for welds between two panels.

[@LakesideAutobody]

Thanks Greg - I have used them both - I have a pneumatic flange tool from HF - it works real well. I also agree with a valley for butt welds - here's a video on that but using a simple pliers - would be easier with their tool though - kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2rFm42Vit2ngMk If you're going to butt weld your patches, this is probably the best way to go. Thanks for the kind words Greg and feel free to always ask ?s - Jerry

[@papergatorzfedducca7998]

Ok I understand now!!!! Thank you!!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@LakesideAutobody]

You're welcome - always keep asking if I don't answer your ? - no problems :)

[@robbyddurham1624]

Do you use the same gauge sheet metal to make the patch? You might have covered this already, but I don't think I'll have time to watch all the videos before I get started on my dad's s10 blazer. Oh another question. Do you have an opinion about the cheaper replacement front fenders for s10's. I looked for oem, but I don't think they make them any longer.

[@LakesideAutobody]

Cheap replacement fenders fit fine like from carparts.com or partsgeek.com As for thickness of sheet - you'll do fine with 20 or 22 gauge.

[@wereexpertstoo3795]

What does "D A the area mean?" Thanks again for doing these videos. Learning a lot.

[@LakesideAutobody]

Good question - I need to do a video on that again. Here is an old one that explains it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmfYYmaIiq9-m9k DA'ing the area would be feathering or making a smooth transition between the ground metal and and paint. Like smoothing out the land before you plant grass.

[@wereexpertstoo3795]

@@LakesideAutobody great, thanks.

[@67fairlane12]

Another great guitar intro and video! Jerry, would you do the same method if you were working on a 67 Fairlane? I believe the metal thickness is 20 guage maybe 19 guage. or would it be ok to butt weld? Im about ready to start the body work, after just replacing the tops of the rear torque boxes and the entire floor pan. I am a beginner and love watching your videos

[@LakesideAutobody]

You can do either but I always use lap with butt welding where necessary (spots that ca't be tapped down). If you prefer butt, watch this video as it may help make that decision for you. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2rFm42Vit2ngMk Both work fine if done correctly but lap is more practical I think in your case. Here's some vids that may help too: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bonEi3WvbKx2baM or kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKCWaJeOYpKqZqs

[@dizzywehby3442]

Was meaning to ask, is that u playing the guitar intro

[@LakesideAutobody]

Yes. It's always a work in progress. 🥴

[@wheelright1409]

Is it still possible to knock down the welds using your method when using 18 gauge repair patches similar to the ones LMC Truck sells?

[@LakesideAutobody]

Yes - no problem at all - it'll work just fine :)

[@husky1232]

Like all your videos keep up the great work you do and stay safe

[@LakesideAutobody]

Thanks 👍

[@samuelfrodge4988]

Is that epoxy primer being used?

[@LakesideAutobody]

That's lacquer primer surfacer. I use it because it's inexpensive, dries fast, don't have to throw out the unused portion, works well, sands easy. as long as it's used the way it was intended to be used - your fine :)

[@chrisgomm6101]

do you take the gas tank out before welding?

[@LakesideAutobody]

No. If i weld very near the tank I always smell for gas. If no smell, I'm good to go. I might tape up the filler cap though. Think of muffler guys - they are always grinding and welding under the car - tons of sparks near the tank. Never heard of any shop catching fire. It's good to take precautions though and do your best to shield the tank and filler cap.

[@chrisgomm6101]

@@LakesideAutobody thank you for that info

[@jimhealy4866]

LEARN how to "Cut and Butt Weld"! This is a lap joint that will rust out in a short time. May be fast, but will not last. Please don't tell me that you can't do it with thin guage steel , you can - just practice. I do it all the time.

[@LakesideAutobody]

Butt welding is as easy as lap - heck I'll even weld sheet metal w/ flux core kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6vRlGx5eNmNpNk - it's just not the way this work is done. With respect, lap welding is how all body shops in Michigan repair rust on late model vehicles (welding or adhesive). Strictly butt welding a patch panel, which has become popularized by the internet and TV, is not the best quality repair on today's thinner metal and there are many good reasons why professional body shops don't do it. Shops use a combination of both lap and butt (butt for rigid areas that can’t be tapped down) on almost every patch but would never just butt two pieces of metal up (gap or no gap), weld it, then grind away at the area attempting to metal finish it. Here why with good reason - especially Eastwood’s starting 22 seconds in: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKGrZmOhnZmKZpI * kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5eunYGHe5Kiaqs * kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2rFm42Vit2ngMk Today’s metal is .030. That is literally 6 hairs (hair is .005) thick. You start grinding on that and the result is paper welds & surrounding metal. In the end it’s what works for you though. Keep in mind, you won’t find anyone butt welding in professional shops. Surely you’re not going to butt weld and metal finish this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWfdnJZviraUitU or some of my other rust repair videos. Use small overlap, weld solid and you won’t have to worry about moisture - especially if you keep the drain holes clean (most important thing in rust prevention). Note that the opening of the seam is upside down on the inside (no moisture trapped). Please see this video for longevity of this type of repair if done correctly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bonEi3WvbKx2baM or kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKCWaJeOYpKqZqs

[@clarkharvell5242]

What if the high spot will not tap down, or it pops up in another spot? I am currently dealing with this...

[@LakesideAutobody]

No problem - You may have some extra metal in the area that needs to be dealt with (oil canning) Here's how to deal with that kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWawh4mkqKqFp8Vh some times you have to chase it - like if it pops up in another area. You may have to "shrink" those high spots if they wont tap down or they bounce or oil can. You have to be centered on the high spot. Start with a large circle to bring the area up then focus on the center to get it almost red - hit it with a pointed body hammer right in the center - then cool it with either air or water on a rag. If it happens in another spot - do the same - eventually it will tighten the panel or "shrink" it and your high spots will be eliminated. You may have to just hit it a bit harder too. Please let me know how it goes for you. Jerry

[@tomguest3702]

I was wondering I watched some other body guys on KZbin and after they do their Rush prepare they would put some short hair body filler over the top of it is it necessary can you use this regular lightweight body filler

[@LakesideAutobody]

It doesn't hurt to use the fiberglass reinforced body filler and it may help to make the repair last longer. It is harder to sand and cost's a bit more than reg. filler and that's basically why I don't use it. I never really have problems with returning rust because I usually rust proof the repair after paint i.e. : kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2GYlYGuqZKhjMU

[@robertcampbell5485]

How come you didn’t weld the entire lap weld seam?

[@LakesideAutobody]

You can if you want but I've never noticed a difference in quality. An old boss used to make us weld the seam solid and of course there would be cheating but nothing ever came back. I think because the seam is upside down on the back side - doesn't hold moisture 😊

[@kiwizz2177]

I’m sure water will suck straight back up in those two overlapping pieces of metal on the backside and in time will start the rust come back.

[@LakesideAutobody]

It won't. I use a combination of both lap and butt on almost every patch but I would never just butt two pieces of metal up, weld it, then grind away at the area attempting to metal finish it for many reasons but here are two: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5eunYGHe5Kiaqs - kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2rFm42Vit2ngMk Also today’s metal is .030. That is literally 6 hairs (hair is .005) thick. You start grinding on that and voila paper thin metal and welds. Both methods work well if done properly so in the end it’s what works for you.. Keep in mind, you won’t find anyone butt welding in professional shops. Surely you’re not going to butt weld and metal finish this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWfdnJZviraUitU or some of my other rust repair videos. Use small overlap - weld solid - no moisture - especially if you keep the drain holes clean (most important thing in rust prevention). Note that the opening of the seam is upside down on the inside too. Please see this video for longevity of this type of repair if done correctly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bonEi3WvbKx2baM or kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKCWaJeOYpKqZqs

[@bryanderksen4448]

Perhaps that proposed drain hole could be used to spray in a rust prevention coating?

[@wereexpertstoo3795]

@@LakesideAutobody this reply answered all my questions from the video. Just did some butt welding for inner rockers to a floor pan. Won't be doing that again if I can avoid it (which I probably could of if I had known what's in this video). Thanks!

[@LakesideAutobody]

@@wereexpertstoo3795 You're welcome. I think you will find the answers you need to achieve success and help make body work easier on this channel. There's a lot of crazy info out there but this is how professional body shops in Michigan have repaired vehicles for years with great success. Hope it helps you out, Jerry

[@LakesideAutobody]

@@bryanderksen4448 Good point or you can rust proof through the drain holes with used motor oil. Sounds crazy but I learned it from an old guy I worked with and found it to be the cure. See this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2GYlYGuqZKhjMU - Jerry

[@miken.4693]

What kind of filler do you recommend? I know they have come a long way since I use d bondo

[@LakesideAutobody]

I use: autobodymaster.com/product_list.jsp?PHPRJ_GROUP_ID=1868 - around $20/gal

[@willtopower2158]

How long do you let the filler set up before you use the grater tool?

[@LakesideAutobody]

Just till it gets like a pencil eraser. Too soft and it fills the grater - too hard and the grater wont cut. There's about a 5-10 minute window so you have to be ready.

[@willtopower2158]

@@LakesideAutobody Thats great information, Thank You very much!

[@robertw5008]

@@LakesideAutobody is that the same principal with bondo glass 5-10 minutes are you still able to use cheese grate? Like your doing?

[@LakesideAutobody]

@@robertw5008 Absolutely - that bondo glass is like cement if you wait too long. I sit right by it and wait till its ready to cheese grate. Like you said about 5-10 min. Happy Thanksgiving :)

[@emiloiu]

Beautiful

[@LakesideAutobody]

Thank you Milu :)

[@garyburgess3829]

Do you use the old style gun to spray all your primer?

[@LakesideAutobody]

Yes - but only because they are a bit more convenient i.e.: sit on the floor, clean, beat around, etc. I just pull the rubber vent hose right off the top of the cup so that I can keep that breather hole clean for maximum efficiency (the gun can breath better).

[@garyburgess3829]

@@LakesideAutobody thanks,Jerry

[@LakesideAutobody]

@@garyburgess3829 You're welcome - have a good weekend:)

[@chig9357]

great info thanks!

[@LakesideAutobody]

Glad it was helpful - have a good weekend :)

[@hddm3]

Awsome man

[@LakesideAutobody]

Thanks :)

[@jeffrogosz9995]

Sir why not put a flange in panel ,most spots I’ve run into can be flanged also pannelbond is something I’ve recently began using works extremely well for me but on occasion I drag out my lead tools ⚒️ 😂😂😂😂

[@LakesideAutobody]

You can flange it if you like. In most body shops they don't flange the panel. Weld it up, knock it down, fill - that's the process

[@fatsk8er62]

Yeah we call that cave and pave in the body world terrible

[@LakesideAutobody]

I use a combination of both lap and butt on almost every patch but I would never just butt two pieces of metal up, weld it, then grind away at the area attempting to metal finish it for many reasons but here are two: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5eunYGHe5Kiaqs - kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2rFm42Vit2ngMk Also today’s metal is .030. That is literally 6 hairs (hair is .005) thick. You start grinding on that and voila paper thin metal and welds. Both methods work well if done properly so in the end it’s what works for you.. Keep in mind, you won’t find anyone butt welding in professional shops. Surely you’re not going to butt weld and metal finish this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWfdnJZviraUitU or some of my other rust repair videos. Use small overlap - weld solid - no moisture - especially if you keep the drain holes clean (most important thing in rust prevention). Note that the opening of the seam is upside down on the inside too. Please see this video for longevity of this type of repair if done correctly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bonEi3WvbKx2baM or kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKCWaJeOYpKqZqs

[@cooperhale5667]

Cave. And Pave

[@LakesideAutobody]

I'm not sure how you would do it... I use a combination of both lap and butt on almost every patch but I would never just butt two pieces of metal up, weld it, then grind away at the area attempting to metal finish it for many reasons but here are two: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5eunYGHe5Kiaqs - kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2rFm42Vit2ngMk Today’s metal is .030. That is literally 6 hairs (hair is .005) thick. You start grinding on that and voila paper thin metal and welds. Both methods work well if done properly so in the end it’s what works for you.. Keep in mind, you won’t find anyone butt welding in professional shops. Surely you’re not going to butt weld and metal finish this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWfdnJZviraUitU or some of my other rust repair videos. Use small overlap - weld solid - no moisture - especially if you keep the drain holes clean (most important thing in rust prevention). Note that the opening of the seam is upside down on the inside too. Please see this video for longevity of this type of repair if done correctly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bonEi3WvbKx2baM or kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKCWaJeOYpKqZqs

[@psk5746]

Restoration shops (like Restore Cars) butt weld, and they can finish it fine (yes I've read your replies, but it can be done) ... but it takes longer and costs more. Way cheaper to bang in the weld and slap the bog on. This way is better for beginners

[@LakesideAutobody]

I would not pay to have someone butt weld and metal finish it. No way. There is no way you can justify the integrity of the welds and the surrounding metal after grinding away at it. Usually those guys that pay a ton for that work never drive the car outside again and that's why it has a decent reputation. Drive it in salt water and the seam with show up.

[@psk5746]

@@LakesideAutobody The weld is supposed to be right threw the thickness of the metal

[@psk5746]

@@LakesideAutobody BTW butt welding was how 1960s Ferraris were made by Pininfarina, Scagletti, etc. They didn't make huge panels but many small panels and butt welded them together. While Ferrari chassis welds are ugly things, their bodies didn't fall apart even after long road races

[@psk5746]

@@LakesideAutobody Also have you heard of The Metal Surgeon? (themetalsurgeon.com)

[@larryvelkoverh8966]

Butt welds would be best This is more production get er done style

[@LakesideAutobody]

With respect, I use a combination of both lap and butt on almost every patch but I would never just butt two pieces of metal up, weld it, then grind away at the area attempting to metal finish it for many reasons but here are two: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5eunYGHe5Kiaqs - kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2rFm42Vit2ngMk Today’s metal is .030. That is literally 6 hairs (hair is .005) thick. You start grinding on that and voila paper thin metal and welds. Both methods work well if done properly so in the end it’s what works for you.. Keep in mind, you won’t find anyone butt welding in professional shops. Surely you’re not going to butt weld and metal finish this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWfdnJZviraUitU or some of my other rust repair videos. Use small overlap - weld solid - no moisture - especially if you keep the drain holes clean (most important thing in rust prevention). Note that the opening of the seam is upside down on the inside too. Please see this video for longevity of this type of repair if done correctly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bonEi3WvbKx2baM or kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKCWaJeOYpKqZqs