Koreans: Through the Ages (2000 vs 2023)

Part eleven of a mini-series looking back at the changes made to the original civilizations in Age of Empires 2. This time the focus is on the inclusion and evolution of the Koreans.
0:42 How Koreans were included in the Conqueror's expansion
3:05 Original Korean bonuses/techs
4:42 Korean busted Siege Onagers
6:20 The Forgotten Expansion
7:31 African Kingdoms
8:00 Rise of the Rajas
9:15 Definition Edition
11:40 Koreans in August 2023 stats
___________________________________________________________
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition

[@SpiritOfTheLaw]

I should have included it in the video, but if you're curious about Petersen's comments regarding the original turtle ship looking wrong, here it is: i.redd.it/8s6yvvyub7y41.png

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Many thanks here.

[@Hemostat]

I remember an argument I had about the turtle ship looking different; turns out I had never updated my game as a kid.

[@ersatzvitamin1]

Yup. Turtle ship is more like Panokseon up-armored with turtle head and spiked armor to prevent enemy boarding, so having a flat-bottomed shape is more accurate.

[@ethribin4188]

First designe clearly was just a modified viking longboat model.

[@TheRealSomeone92]

Koreans are strong on Nomad because of "Villagers have +3 Line of Sight" as it greatly increases their early game scouting.

[@thenayancat8802]

Korean towers were really insane at their peak. Faster stone mining, faster building. You could commit fewer vills and still beat your opponent in a tower war.

[@lexwayfarer5771]

much to the surprise of microsoft management, making an expansion about romans didnt increase the game's sales among ancient romans

[@ersatzvitamin1]

As a Korean, I think that managing four resources for eco and stuffs didn't sit right with Koreans in general. Starcraft only had mineral/gas combo..

[@JohnSmithEx]

Ancient Romans think that watching real gladiators fighting in the Colosseum arena is much more fan than moving tiny virtual legionaries on a plastic screen.

[@99Teutons]

​@@JohnSmithExthey don't know what they are missing out on 😂😂

[@grimrapper5202]

​@@ersatzvitamin1am i hearing things right? Some gamer nations like kprra having a SKILL ISSUE? Dude that's crazy, totally insane

[@ersatzvitamin1]

@@grimrapper5202 Like, we have many casual gamers, too haha

[@Binarokaro]

Considering how they're suddenly rushed into the game by Microsoft to begin with, it isn't really a surprise that their design would be all over the place at first. Honestly though, while I think the archer angle has been nice, I feel like it would have been better if they redesigned Korean to have siege as their central identity again. They were just so unique back in the days

[@Elfangor567]

Yeah, I feel like there's a lot more archer civs than siege ones.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

Their siege is still good tho...

[@loudradialem5233]

I think the historical Koreans had more of an archery tradition than catapults.

[@YoungSavage]

koreans have been my favorite civ for over a decade, I miss my rocket artillery siege onagers =(

[@tanishislam4953]

I feel that as more civs were added to the game it's harder to balance the game and non-meta strats like full siege are harder to justify because it is countered. so they had to give Koreans a more meta strat which is to use archers and towers

[@lasseortmann4651]

The weird thing about koreans beein a tower civ is that koreans didnt build towers. When I was in Seoul in the national Museum it was explicitly stated that they did not build towers into their fortifications

[@misteral9045]

That's hilarious. Why didn't they?

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

Maybe they were influenced by the Korean wonder, which is a pagoda but looks like a tower. 😅

[@ersatzvitamin1]

산성(mountain fortress)was our specialties, and picking off intruders at the advantage of heights was the main tactics. Archery was fostered as well. Trad Korean buildings exceeding two stories were really rare, as OP had said.

[@sharpasacueball]

@@misteral9045 Walls.

[@aaaaaaaard9586]

They did, look up 경복궁 동십자각 or 수원화성 서북공심돈. Although Koreans never built forward towers to invade China.

[@BelialTnTn]

Back in the day, when their Onagers were absolutely brutal with their 12 range, Koreans used to be my favourite civ. Here in Tunisia we were all noobs playing LAN games and whatnot on pirated copies. My strategy was always Tower Rush in Feudal, take an enemy's base, then go to late Imperial and mass Onagers and Halberdiers and destroy everything. Or sometimes just fast Castle ("fast" was like 20 minutes at the time). I stopped playing for like 20 years? I got back with Definitive Edition last year and immediately started playing Koreans, only to discover their Onagers were no longer able to destroy everything, including Castles, without any difficulty like in the old times. I also tried Tower Rushing, at least in the way I used to 20 years ago, but it also didn't work at all. Those were good times, hearing my LAN opponents cry and scream and insult me whenever I showed up with Towers or those Onagers of Mass Destruction.

[@_antares031]

To me, the biggest buff to korean civ was improving turtle ship's appearance in v1.0c patch. It became more historically accurate, and looked cooler than before.

[@azh698]

I actually liked the original sprite, even if it was inaccurate.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

I like the old one, the new one is slightly cooler however.

[@arnavnandan]

Koreans were my Uncle's favorite civilization. Feels so good after watching this video

[@CrnaStrela]

I think their success in nomad is due to villagers LoS, with the extra LoS they can just pick the best spot to start without being caught off guard like placing the TC next to enemy or docking a pond instead of open water.

[@jurgnobs1308]

definitely. scouting and map.awareness is huge on nomad, especially because you don't have an actual scout AND you need to chose your starting location

[@enginuysal4500]

you can add their tower rush potential and amazing unique unit to reasons

[@Progeusz]

It's less about TC placement (you always want to start building the TC quickly or you'll fall behind in villagers) and more about scouting area around the TC. Koreans find all the resources much more easily then enemy and can often scout the enemy while remaining hidden. More vill LoS also leads to finding more sheep which means even more scouting. Koreans rarely struggle to find a boar, multiple ones, removing a lot of bad RNG from their starts.

[@Morrneyo]

As a Korean, it was honestly funny, rather than disappointed, in that Korea described in AOE2 was a mess. The way people talk is more awkward than a child who just spoke. Also, as far as I know, Korea did not use weapons such as horse-drawn War wagon. Perhaps the developers wanted to feature Singijeon or Hwacha? (They resemble modern rocket launchers) The War Wagons, which were actually used during the Joseon Dynasty, were rather a improvised barriers like the Hussite Wagon.

[@ersatzvitamin1]

I wish 천자총통 was added as UU, but then there are already houfnices and all that....

[@aaaaaaaard9586]

I think the voice is understandable given that all voices for non-european languages are mess anyways. To me the architecture was the most irritating, that weird looking wooden buildings don’t look like any East Asian structures I know… maybe Japanese? It’s quite disappointing given that the devs did their best to make American civ architectures look different. That’s why I enjoyed RoN more back in the days because it freakin nailed Korean architecture and traditional clothings (actually in RoN only the Korean units have unique skins)

[@davidpereira5969]

i whould love a medieval rocket launcher system to be the tower civ unique unit, nest of bees are so much fun in aoe4

[@annaairahala9462]

@@aaaaaaaard9586 I recall that being a major criticism, that the East Asian architecture seemed to be solely based on Japanese architecture and even then with many liberties taken. DE did fix many of the language issues, there's still some like the meso civs that is honestly pretty bad, but most of them were adjusted to be much more accurate. Sounds like the Korean wasn't fully fixed though either

[@aaaaaaaard9586]

@@annaairahala9462 It’s pretty bad. the language they speak is modern south Korean at least after 2000. It’s bascially valley girl accent spoken in a medival England drama. The female villiager didn’t even get the modern Korean accent right, she adds this freakin weird high tone at the end of the words (chuldong~~ eehdong~~~) in a language that’s supposed to be an atonal language.

[@willemverheij3412]

Good video but it is a little odd to not show the original design of the Turtle Ships considering it is I think the only unit they changed the appearance of after release of the original game.

[@SIGNOR-G]

Maybe the HWACHA Could be added as special upgrade for the mangonel. At least you could put the bonuses on that unit and add something else to add to the civ instead.

[@misteral9045]

It's weird. It's scorpion/archer projectiles but it shoots like a mangonel. I think it should be a Scorpion replacement. It can shoot like a mango and do friendly fire, has a much larger blast radius and lower attack, terrible against buildings, more range than a scorpion. Make Hwatcha against all foot troops, make mango against calvary and buildings. Like the jannisary/HC choice for turks.

[@OldToothbrush0210]

Since unique upgrades become more common, why not

[@SIGNOR-G]

Either that or remove the war wagon. But id prefere that it was a unique upgrade. I think it would work. Now i dont know how to animate the projectiles but im sure its not impossible

[@ersatzvitamin1]

Regional siege unit for East Asis would be better in that sense

[@SIGNOR-G]

@@ersatzvitamin1 mmm it would just be Korea and China. I doubt mongols and japanese were using that stuff.

[@inductivegrunt94]

23 years, so many changes, and still only has a single historical battle and no campaign. But at least it was a historical battle that plays to the current Korean's strength of defense and naval. So they at least have some good even if they're not the best in any category they fill.

[@sneedfest3399]

A single historical battle but its one of the best ones

[@inductivegrunt94]

@sneedfest3399 No arguments here. First time I played I struggled with holding off the Japanese, but it was a good enjoyable struggle that I eventually overcame and won. Definitely one of the best historical battles in the game.

[@SIGNOR-G]

​@@inductivegrunt94 at least in the modding community you have a guy who made the entire IMJIN WAR.

[@Naxhus2]

I bet they get the Brit treatment when they eventually split up the Chinese civ.

[@SIGNOR-G]

@@Naxhus2 i hope before that they will add armenians and georgians. As for me i really have to master modding cause i want to make the italian city states mod.

[@samrodrigues3199]

Interesting point on the rushed delivery of Koreans - I believe that this might be the reason that the Galleon and Heavy Scorpion lost their unique torpedo noise from AoK to AoC. Before AoC, Galleons weren't mute and had their own unique projectile sound. Heavy Scorpions also had this unique projectile sound. Years ago in the HD Edition, after messing around with thee Genie Editor, I re-added the OG torpedo Galleon sound, and was really surprised to have found that it had also applied to the War Wagon's torpedos! I think that we might have just identified the origin of this bug - not that it matters now, with the Definitive Edition having new sound effects, but it would be nice if the Classic Sound Pack would remedy this, and re-add the classic AoK torpedo sound for Heavy Scorpions and Galleons, as well as giving it to the War Wagon.

[@devangnivatkar2649]

I never noticed it in DE, but do Galleons & War Wagon projectiles make sounds in DE?

[@samrodrigues3199]

​@@devangnivatkar2649They do yeah, but they're just duplicates of the War Galley sound now

[@tnc7685]

Interesting they were added in at the last minute because there was a Korean civ (Choson) in AOE1.

[@Geffalrus1984]

God I loved playing Korea against the AI back in 2000. I'd just use the formation button to put a bunch of onagers within a square of war wagons and methodically murder the entire map. Just a constant shower of glowing red balls. So fun.

[@annaairahala9462]

I remember doing that too, add in a couple bombard cannons and monks and it countered everything. Soo much fun

[@twitchsopamanxx]

Or triple range on an empty isle

[@Progeusz]

@@twitchsopamanxx you aren't funny

[@xander7750]

Microsoft meddling being behind the decision to add Koreans is a shame, but it sucks that a lot of the community has taken that to mean it was a mistake to add them. Korea for AoK's period was as populous as the largest European kingdoms and more centralized than nearly any of them; if anything, they were more internationally relevant than Japan until basically the end of the period. Khmer woulda been more thematic for sure, but Koreans aren't at all a terrible pick. More lead time would have been cool though if it meant they could have gotten a bit more research, "war wagon" was a bit of a strange pick for the civ. Gameplay-wise the insane onagers were a blast though, I would also love to see them reverse the team bonus change.

[@lasseortmann4651]

for me koreans always made sense in an conquerers expansion as the target of conquerers like the meso civs and having one of greatest military leaders of all time with admiral yi

[@misteral9045]

The original version, extending to the current, of Koreons is a mistake. A slapstick thing they threw together for marketing purposes. An abomination, that they've been trying to fix over the years. "The most changed civ, not only in number of changes but the scale." Scrap it, start over. Yes, it's not a mistake to have Koreons at all.

[@zeroomega3781]

@@misteral9045 looks like they still refused to learn to this day. Look at how much they screwed up Vietnamese. And then most recently the fully imaginary Dravidians.

[@aaaaaaaard9586]

@@misteral9045There’s no Koreon civ dude

[@misteral9045]

@@aaaaaaaard9586 Thanks for letting me know I made a spelling mistake, I'm gonna not fix it just for you. Dick.

[@oivinf]

I once got a KZbin ad from some Japanese organization and the whole ad was just "The Sea of Japan is only called the Sea of Japan. It has only ever been called the Sea of Japan. Look at this old map. See that? It says Sea of Japan." and it went on and on for like 8 minutes. I wonder if the ad algorithm will bless this upload with that same weird ad. Needless to say I was more confused than anything and tried to look into the conflict. If anything that ad just convinced me the whole situation is kinda silly

[@Davtwan]

From giant rocks to tower fire to shots from an arbalest. No one could say that this civ hasn’t had an interesting journey at least.

[@Terry_T_ODST]

Honestly, I don't mind the archer theme the Koreans have goings, considering how defensively oriented they were during most of their history, but I think they can push their design a bit further to make them more unique. I would replace the scorpion with the Hwacha on their siege workshop. It could be a long range siege weapon that can be garrisoned on defensive structures to increase their attack significantly, given their main role during the japanese invasion of Korea. They would be really slow and hard to micro in return, with no real bonus damage aside the standard siege damage against buildings

[@hansoskar1911]

the extra LOs ont he villagers matters a lot on nomad. both Trush and Castle Drop ->UU are viable on Nomad and Koreans do both really well.

[@serenedreemurr]

12-range Siege Onagers were my favorites back in my childhood.

[@bennoloth]

Important to note the reason that free Archer Armor didn't help. Most people normally get armor on cav/infantry and attack on archers. Because if they found your archers, you're probably losing anyway, they aren't designed to take hits. So they were an archer civ with a focus on the worst part of archers.

[@Erikkert]

The quality of your content is outstanding. Love watching some of your analysis.

[@Kimtu241294]

I do miss the days of bringing 10 - 15 siege onagers to bring down a castle. Super fun!! Teuton Castle was the only counter to Koreans SO at the time :3

[@mojungle3054]

I was playing Age of Kings exclusively back then. When my dad got me the AoE2 Gold edition, I read up on the expansion and was super psyched to play as the Koreans because of their War Wagons. See, Viking Longships were my favorite unit at the time (Dad was in the US Navy and I have Swedish ancestry). Based on descriptions I read about it, 12 year old me expected the Korean War Wagon to be a land version of the Longship, shoot multiple arrows or even hand cannon bullets... I was very disappointed... *UNTIL I FOUND ADMIRAL YI IN THE KOREA MISSION AND LAID WASTE TO THE VIRGIN JAPANESE WOOD SHIPS WITH GIGACHAD SPIKY TURTLESHIPS*

[@ethribin4188]

I find it so weird that war waggons are weak to javalins. If anything, they should be weak to infantery. Not javalins.

[@DanielBerke]

Wow, they had to add a civilization with 6-8 weeks to go, and decided to give it *two* unique units? That's pretty impressive! Playing AoC as a kid (mostly against AI) I used to love turtling, and the Koreans were one of my favorite civilizations. Nothing like turtling up with faster stone mining and improved towers, then building up 40 max-range Siege Onagers and going around the map wiping everyone else out. 😁

[@fwosti3548]

I really like these Throughout The Ages set of videos, SOTL! Thank you! I'm so pumped for Vietnamese no matter how long I'm going to be waiting.

[@a.nonimus6705]

Yay! I love these Through the Ages videos. Thanks Spirit 😁

[@rubenmaessen4724]

A difference for their turtle ships not mentioned is that in the past you needed a castle before you could make them. When did that change? I played the 2000 conquerors version, then got back to the game with DE in 2020, so I missed all the versions in between.

[@ethribin4188]

I did like Korea being the one civ with a full university. It fits their culture from back in the jade palace age, where education was the center of their growth.

[@user-xo9ig8kc3u]

If AoE ever gets more content I'd like to see more university techs added

[@ethribin4188]

@@user-xo9ig8kc3u true. Thats something they've been very limited with. Its realy only been arrowslits. Outside of that the university got no additions since AoE2 classic

[@davidpersonal2307]

Love this series! After you have finished all the AoC civs it would be great if maybe you could try and interview Sandy to discuss the changes made over the years. Changes in identity etc.

[@voidgods]

Easy way to bring back the onager range bonus in a less broken manner is making their Imperial unique tech give +2 range, for maybe a higher cost. Making that bonus a team-wide buff is too hard to balance.

[@danielmunsaka2051]

12 range onagers was crazy

[@fabriziomariano1332]

Koreans were my favourites civ until I started playing HD edition in 2016 as I was in love with those 12 range Siege Onagers and their superb towers. Since then i still fav Koreans but because of these memories more than their "intended" gameplay

[@tomascostanzo3673]

Onagers with +4 range. That truly sounds scary and fun at the same time.

[@ersatzvitamin1]

+256 mods!

[@azh698]

​@@ersatzvitamin1With Ethiopian torsion engines for good measure.

[@ersatzvitamin1]

@@azh698 Saw that scene on the Spiffing Brit video. Mayhem and destruction!

[@sirgodua]

I love Rise of Rome and I am bummed that nobody else is playing it anymore! Few weeks ago you could have caught a wave of 4v4 games with really experienced players and you learned so much from them. I am probably one of the few, but I love AoE2 and 1 almost equally for different reasons and found it really comfy to play AoE1 within the 2 engine.

[@dontspikemydrink9382]

hey, i still enjoy playing age of empires

[@malikshabazz2065]

great stuff :-)

[@schbeinvalf5709]

This video reminded me why I loved playing the Korean so much.❤ Gosh, now I want to pay AoE2 but I haven't played in years!

[@matheusrios4223]

My god I remember the terror of siege onagers from koreans back the good old days. So much I still go for siege onagers with them even today! Maybe I should try changing to archer rush now instead. But old habits are hard to let go

[@jam34786]

I still remember the original rounded turtle ship shape! I think the newer version looks better but i wish they kept the og somewhere in the game, maybe as a hero unit

[@mubashirulmoula1798]

Can you make a top 5 worst Team Bonus civ? I think Koreans will definitely have a place there.

[@devangnivatkar2649]

Back in the day, I had a game on Arena, 2v2 with a friend against two Hard Conquerors AIs. We were both quite bad back then (not that it's gotten any better 11). I got wiped out, so relocated a base to the back of my friend's base. From there we went on a war of attrition with trash units. My Korean Onagers (8+3 range) came in clutch against the enemy's Frankish Castles (8+2 range)! Game went on almost the whole night in a tug of war, but we won at the end

[@funny_liquid7111]

We should really start the petition for old Koreans team bonus

[@turnerherbek6912]

Jazzy outro is back!!

[@adi96adi]

Man the b roll footage is so good I'm getting distracted😂

[@Quyanxi]

If you're up for signing a petition to bring back the insane Korean onager range, I'm in, mate. Have always loved the civ's strong siege onagers, though less so ever since they overhauled it. That being said, it's now a playable civ again with the wood discount, though a farcry from the fun they used to be.

[@VerSalieri]

I shouldn’t go back to your old videos to view your intro...make a new one or return the original...We all love it, and we want it back.

[@YossarianVanDriver]

I am kinda instinctively against when changes make something less distinctive and more "normal". I dunno, the continual balance cycle will always trend towards finding the current least good thing and buffing it, but by the nature of comparative measuring there's always gonna *be* a least good thing, so it feels like the game gets a bit less interesting when things get homogenised.

[@JJBeauregard1]

I think the inclusion of Vietnamese as a civ in AoE1 is more of a nice gesture and a "thank you" to a devout player base rather than an attempt at catching a target audience. Vietnamese were playing the game already, after all. Edit: The cynics in the comments have convinced me that I'm wrong. In this world everything is black and white and since we're on the internet we only look at the negatives. Every single one of the over 200 thousand employees at Microsoft is evil and greedy, including the devs for Age of Empires and I'm sure adding Lac Viet is actually racist as well. /s

[@misteral9045]

Yeah but Microsoft wanted them to buy the Definitive Edition, which they did not. It flopped even harder than AOE4.

[@Handepsilon]

I dunno much about Vietnamese economy and gaming culture, but if it is anywhere like Indonesian's, then it makes sense. Why buy a high price game AND an expansion on top of that when you already have a cheaper and pirateable version ready for you to play? If it didn't work with Koreans, it sure as hell wouldn't for Vietnamese

[@ryanforgo3500]

Sorry, not to be negative but ALL THE WORLD were playing the game already. If anything what killed the game in the past was their release of AOE3 I am palestinian, and i had a xircle of over 300 friends playing the game " my brothers even opened a gaming center because not everyone had a pf back then" We taught AoE2 to everyone who ever visited the internet and we created big local tournments with big prizes. So yes mu point is, all the world plays/played the game. And they betrayed us all once by how they neglected AOE2 and created a game "aoe3" that does not even resemble it... fast forward now they have AOE2 definitive addition which non if us in the whole city knew about for the past 10 years "or however time has it been going" And look at this "gesture" of theirs, if you just found out AOE2 is alive wwith such a big "skeptical" but happy mindset you would look into it and find out you CAN'T EVEN TRY without paying a bunch of money IN ADVANCE. Like, if they had any respect they would have fried to convince the ppl who truly loved this game by advertising better and giving them a month or more of full access free trial runs so their doubt of this game being " just another aoe3" is clarified.

[@zeroomega3781]

it mostly because of the higher-up's arbitrary decision and aoe team's clueless design. Very obvious that these dev never intended to include Vietnamese in aoe2 in the first place but were forced, ended up with one frakenstein of a civ and called it a day. Who would buy that?

[@duongnhdn]

@@Handepsilon To answer your question, most Vietnamese players play a cracked version of the game from 1995 with some unlimited farm bugs and they like it that way, also most of them dont like the newly redesigned graphics and enjoy the simple graphics of the old version. The pricetag isnt helping either.

[@Shokisan1]

Cool video. Always liked turtle ships.

[@ersatzvitamin1]

I see that you make your own BGM, right? I'd like to see some video on music-making as well.

[@kanutahytomka4542]

always my favourite civ, whenevar i changed my playstyle the devs changed koreans accordingly

[@h0m3st4r]

The Koreans were my brother's favorite civilization back when we were kids. He took great pride in his heritage and always had a thing for weak early game, strong late game play.

[@XyntXII]

Imo SotL misses the biggest impact of their old teambonus: Yes it meant your SO had more range, but it also meant everyone on the team had mangonels with a range advantage, which can be a huge decider in castle age since often the best defense to a push with mangonels is your own mangonels and that micro is crucial. I think when it was in the game the input delay made it less incredible of a bonus, than it would be today. The range advantage of onagers is obviously also important, though I would argue less so than mangonels, because there also are bombard cannons.

[@spyrofrost9158]

Hey! As a childhood Korean main id like to point out the original turtle ship is more round. That's the HD one you hack! All jokes aside though I'm sad that I don't play them anymore. I've moved on to other civs over the game iterations.

[@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor]

This might be controversial, but I fucking loved the OG Korean tower rushes.

[@orionl7406]

5:52 Man-at Arms look so cool in HD.

[@lucaskang548]

Thank you

[@elephantt2077]

I swear Starcraft cash-in was intentional given that War Wagon was pretty much a Medival Dragoon

[@frankieseward8667]

Koreans have been slowly coming their own. I think they're definitely getting there

[@azh698]

Who remembers the first conquerors sprite for Turtle Ships?

[@quaintserpent]

Devs need to redesign war wagon into tanky wagon able to garrison units inside and making it packed/unpacked just like trebuchet. The packed version would look like the one we already have but can’t fire and unpacked would be more like unpacked wagon with ability to fire with this galleon’s projectile and with extra arrows thanks to units garrisoned inside, can’t move and horses disappear.

[@Progeusz]

Koreans perform well on Nomad for two reasons, neither of which you quoted. First is Villagers line of sight which has massive effect on Nomad gameplay where you start without a scout and don't have any idea where resources are. Second is strong unique unit which is important because castle drops are a dominant strategy on this map (see Spanish and Portuguese).

[@user-gr8xd6id8q]

and turtle ships 11.

[@pwn3dname]

It would be interesting to see if 12-(or 11-) range onagers could be workable without, y'know, siege onagers. That's the upgrade that really turns onagers into death machines, but without it, they're essentially not unlike (arguably better, cheaper) Houfnices, which also combine great range and splash damage but aren't overpowered outside of a few, specific situations. Maybe now that they lost their old team bonus, it's time to bump up Shinkichon back to +2 range, even +3 range if they remove Siege Onager from their tech tree and increase the price of the UT.

[@pwn3dname]

Alternatively, you could trade the siege onager tech, and maybe the regular onager as well, for a Hwacha unique upgrade that trades splash ratio for range. But since Koreans already have two unique units, I think that would be pushing it.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

I love this series, some faction overviews are a bit dated these days.

[@VuLinhAssassin]

Hi SotL, would you consider playing Starcraft now that you mentioned in your video?

[@imsmeagol911]

I still have a working version of the original conquerors expansion with the 12 range SO. I go back every once in a while solely to try those bad boys out.

[@JoeLiningToolFilms]

I'm with you, I want the old Korean onagers back. I don't understand this recent trend of making new civs with a bunch of unique mechanics and then making all the old civs more generic... they keep updating the game too often

[@agustinfranco0]

they are also great in nomad because of the vill LOS, it lets them find a good spot much faster

[@louisemmanuelmorente3978]

The Hwacha is too cool to not be added to the game. Petition to add it as a Korean UU plsss

[@BenjaminKeller]

Wasn't there a different turtle ship design in the beginning?

[@Deszigames]

My friend used to always play the British when we had our Lan parties and stack mass longbows. This was back in the early 2000s mind you and I could not find an effective way to counter them.... until I rolled out the 12 range siege onagers that would wipe his entire longbow spam with a few placed shots. He suddenly never wanted to play anymore after that 😂😂😅

[@michaelandreipalon359]

At least they took part on one of my favorite, if somewhat difficult, campaign missions of the then-pre-DE AoE2 era, the Koreans.

[@thomasbuchovecky171]

I was a post imperial DM player back then and if you could survive the first five minutes as Koreans it was really hard to lose

[@iannalemme]

I remember viper's korean tower rush games. Good times

[@settingsun3470]

Ah, you should have included footage of what the turtle ship used to look like

[@adnivisorx5873]

Koreans bonus in the beginning, also affected their bombard tower, so it had the same range as as Turks after artillery.

[@Alexk-cp8xq]

Has the dialog ever been updated from modern Korean to older korean?

[@MastaDJMax]

Hmm Im kinda thinking about a unique tech that lowers catapult damage but increase range...

[@zwojack7285]

Funny, the Baltic Sea is called "Ostsee" in Germany, literally meaning East Sea.

[@RazorWinter]

I like the idea of bringing back their onager identity. Also, tbh I would sign any petition to bring real Hwacha to the unique unit. I love Koreans, and I love playing with Cavalry Archers but I hate these wagons they are so clunky, their hitbox is huge, it is annoying to kite with them.

[@thagikaagrajith]

its weird how you can put scorpion TB for +1 range but as soon as its onager its just broken period

[@aoefsmrap]

Sandy's narrative back then about Koreans being added, is entirely different to his narrative now, now that he has no contractual obligations anymore. I suspect Romans were also ordered to be added against the dev's intentions.

[@annaairahala9462]

I mean Romans wasn't supposed to be a competitive civ in the first place, they only added it to rank after fans asked them too lol So if anyone forced them to add it, it'd be the fans

[@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor]

The big thing I took away from this video was that Microsoft refuses to actually help AoE1.

[@garethharris8732]

You didn’t use Sandy petersons correct title, remake the video

[@niallyuxinxie3938]

I miss the times back in 2000 when Koreans were undisputably the best post imperial death match civ with the 12 ranged onagers, war wagon, bombard tower combo

[@JalesNaves]

I click these waiting for the "Legendary Game Designer Sandy Petersen said..."

[@87JJosh]

The Koreans were a Microsoft decision that ended being a good addition to the game after all

[@MammothSaltyGachaponOfficial]

What​ next​ civ​ should​ be?

[@stfnknbb]

Am I wrong, or do the stats show that the Koreans have back-slid into insignificance again?

[@arcticbeak]

Turtle ships are my all time favourite unit in all age of empires games.

[@Shiroyasha2397]

Will you one on the Vietnamese as well?

[@UntiltedName]

Compared to back in the day it's a bit of a bummer that they're "just another archer civ" now. Looking at them doesn't even come across that way with the unique units. That arrow flinging monstrosity you showed a video of near the start would have sold them as an archer civ if it was their unique unit.

[@agiosKatastrof]

Man. I played AOE2 back in the days with the 12 range onagers and war wagons were real tanks. I only watch now (just don't have the time to actually play), but it's a shame that Koreans don't have that persona anymore. I felt like at the time, that Koreans were the successor to the mighty Hittites.

[@happypandaface710]

5:50 - mayans used to have SO back in the day too...

[@ancillarity]

Kind of insane that back then you can just add a new Civ in less than 2 months.

[@ethribin4188]

The 20% wood discpunt on ships is what I have the most hope for. While they dont have their great economy, this puts Koreans compeditive to Vikings on water. Which, honestly, they should have been from the start.

[@mysteriousshadow395]

Who else misses the original war wagon sounds?