Kosen Judo Class at Kyoto University (Foundation of Modern BJJ)

[@TheBongReyes]

As a student of BJJ. I’d love to train in Kosen Judo. More knowledge is never a negative.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

Might be kind of hard to find outside Japan,France and Canada...but their are books and videos you can buy on Amazon dot com you can study to fill your curiosity.

[@markdaniels4178]

Bjj is kosen judo! I study judo and bjj and I truly recommend bjj players train or learn judo, it should be a must.

[@huntermosely7420]

@@markdaniels4178 up and down not just throws

[@rusiatevuetibau6333]

As a student of Judo….i wouldnt look to BJJ for anything

[@markdaniels4178]

@@rusiatevuetibau6333 why do you say that?

[@philosophiaentis5612]

I am Brazilian and I agree that Brazilian jiu jitsu is judo, but with a different emphasis.

[@acodike]

Spread the truth.

[@jerrylong6011]

Same art, different sport.

[@eamonob84]

Yep, only so many ways to move a human body. Same thing goes for catch wrestling, sambo, etc.

[@alfredoaraujo7756]

Judo and BJJ are the same fight with different rules. So, because of that one’s greater technical strength either Judo or BJJ goes to where one’s technical attention is placed.

[@danle3181]

@@jerrylong6011 Exactly what Mestre Flavio Behring told me. ;)

[@notvisible3754]

Japan should be doing as much as they can to keep this style alive considering the popularity of MMA and the fact that many think a lot of it came from Brazil!

[@teovu5557]

Its not dying out its pretty popular in Japan and in universities. Kosen Judo already had a few MMA fighters and even had a ADCC champion.

[@megaham1552]

Yeah but it's too similar to BJJ, if they could adjust it to make it stand out more than maybe than that could work

[@abbisgm3453]

@@megaham1552did you know the parenthood of Bjj is judo? Judo 1882 Bjj 1925 is not similar is the same Bjj is actually kosen judo maeda a judoka who taught judo to the Gracie Bjj is supposed to just modern version I do judo also did practice some Bjj and yeah similar but they have many things that are different than Japan because you know Japan like to keep it as traditional as possible..

[@irvinjaycarranza6828]

I feel a positive vibe with the way they train. :)

[@Reddragondiaries]

Yes, good observation. It's still judo at the core and carries with it the values and expectations of the art.

[@alanguages]

I was in San Diego a couple years back. I talked to Korean BJJ practitioners and one said, Japanese exchange students who trained in Kosen Judo were extremely strong. Their grip strength put BJJ people to shame. He never mentioned who won during rolling sessions though. I am guessing it varies, due to individuals.

[@Reddragondiaries]

Kosen judo is a university activity only. I think it tends to end after that.

[@dianecenteno5275]

@@Reddragondiaries not so here in the States. Those of us ( I have been around for a while) that were trained in what we refer to as old school Judo, practice standing and ground fighting to their fullest. A lot of the modern schools only focus on Olympic Judo which has a smaller curriculum. As a Jujitsu ( my foundation) person, i then incorporate the Judo into the self defense and combat aspects of the training. Works well! Especially when you add striking combinations to soften the opponent then power slam them then finish with a strike or lock.

[@billihawk368]

He was exaggerating bjj is grips all the time...

[@alanguages]

@Antonio Lobos The Koreans I met never mentioned the Kosen Judo exchange students of ever competing. Just that they rolled with each other at the university in Seoul. He said, the grip strength was what shocked him and his team mates, on how strong they were. They never met BJJ guys as strong as the Kosen guys.

[@danle3181]

@@alanguages Because "Kosen" judokas know about grip fighting and throws, they are practicing judo...

[@cortx2lh]

Actually, Kosen Judo is Kodokan Judo too. The difference lies on the rules. Great video, anyway.

[@thesensei]

Was just about to say that! Lol

[@Reddragondiaries]

For the commentary part, it was the easiest way to make the comparison.

[@cortx2lh]

Any chance of some tournament footage?

[@kigawman]

You are right that Kosen is Kodokan. The biggest difference is not the rules (alone), but the *newaza (for the obvious reason).*

[@BloodofPatriots]

Kodokan has no rule set. It is the entire system. The rule sets such as IJF (aka "Olympic Judo") and Kosen that lead to the type of favored techniques, whether standing in IJF or newaza in Kosen and in the burgeoning Freestyle Judo rule set.

[@acatinny]

I googled on Kosen Judo as I did not have any previous knowledge, and it seems that this style has been played only at elite class schools. Kyoto university is certainly one of the top schools, actually only next to Tokyo university. I learned a new thing, thanks :)

[@BloodofPatriots]

Kosen means "Technical" in Japanese. Kosen Universities are the Technical Universities of Japan, so not "elite" at all.. think Georgia Tech, not Harvard. The Kodokan Judo practiced in Kosen Universities is due to a different set of rules than IJF ("sport" or "Olympic"). Look it up yourself.

[@edmundkim007]

Very interesting seeing the differences and similarities between bjj and kosen. I was shocked to see they use what we call in BJJ lasso guard and lapel guard. Please do more Judo videos!!!

[@lancehobbs8012]

or is it just that the NAME "kosen judo" wasnt being used because at the time it was still all called Kano Jujutsu? And that infact the kodokan style at the time was very different to this frustrating stop start stop start throwing contest that today we call "judo"?

[@franka7691]

You shouldn't be shocked. Remember the origins of BJJ. Mitsuyo Maeda began teaching Helio, Carlos, Luiz Franca, and others in 1914. Previously, he and 4 other Kodokan black belts were sent from Japan in 1904 by Jigoro Kano himself to help teach judo to the world. What did these 5 black belts specialize in? Kosen judo.

[@franka7691]

Let me correct myself. I read that Maeda didn't teach Helio. He taught Carlos, who in turn taught Helio.

[@graciederangementsyndrome3669]

+Frank A Appeal to association fallacy. Kosen Judo didn't have their first competition since 1914. Conde coma already left Japan in 1904. Sure you can argue that Kosen existed sometime before 1914 and maybe at 1894 as the earliest date. But almost everyone learned directly from mainly by Jigoro Kano. Those who excelled in newaza were those who trained with Oda and Kanemitsu. Coma never trained with them as far as Im concerned.

[@gabbar51ngh]

Ghost Jockey kosen is just a name, The ground techniques predate BJJ and were part of JUDO. At the end of the day it's still JUDO. Wrestling had these techniques way before JUDO was there just so you know

[@thomasmosby9150]

Bjj, judo, Olympic wrestling, MMA all the grappling arts are great. I love grappling in general. It's just a super fun way to practice combat, and pretty safe too. Mad respect to the practitioners who put the years into combat.

[@dimitrisdm6997]

dont forget Luta Livre bro...the no gi part of bjj which btw is not bjj,bjj is only with gi,luta livre is no gi

[@jerrylong6011]

@@dimitrisdm6997, no it’s not. Lutre Livre is different from no gi Jiu Jitsu.

[@michelpierre8468]

Kosen Judo is a perfect training for guys like me who had an hip replacement,no heavy risky projections(seoi nage, koshi guruma,tomoe nage etc...) ne waza at his best allows me to practice a different type of judo, with no danger for my new hip lol!!!!!!!!!!

[@Reddragondiaries]

it's very true. Even though there is pain and some injuries with newaza, it's not the same as the injuries that can happen from the standing work

[@nicocontreras5366]

I did Kosen in Canada and you still have to do tachi waza but you can choose whatever you want, no need of explosive variation, can focus on de ashi barai or ouchi gari if you want

[@michelpierre8468]

you are absolutly right, since my operation, my sensei has selected some technics that are no danger for me ( most of the barais, ko and O ouchi, kosoto gake,,osoto gari and otochi gari some hips technics like uki otoshi etc... and all the ne waza .) i am refrrained with the shoulder projection, and the sutemi waza, so far my new hip is holding right and this allows me to continue judo , no more belts exam , but at 64 judo is more for staying in shape !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@nicocontreras5366]

That´s awesome, we have to adapt with age but never leave completely.

[@danle3181]

This is not true. Big throws were (and still are) allowed in the Kosen ruleset. Remember it's all Kodokan judo !

[@judorican973]

Great video newaza alive & well👍🏿

[@dontwalkdontrun]

Side jumps for warm ups are brutal!! Awesome video.

[@mrv1271]

I trained for years with a one of the top European judo players. He taught us as much newasa as tachiwasa. We learned so much. I guess if you’re good at judo you have to be good at both.

[@alfredoaraujo7756]

You got it right.

[@rpmcmurphy5125]

This video is absolutely amazing. Very informative, narration is brilliant and the music is incredibly tranquil. Solid 10/10.

[@sapateirojiujitsuhonolulu5386]

who the hell downvoted this video? 25?!?! they are probably not martial arts fans. Thanks for this amazing video!

[@Reddragondiaries]

thank you. oss!

[@jackinhoff8058]

All 25 of them have the last name Gracie lol

[@SoldierDrew]

@@jackinhoff8058 Very possible. Or they suffer from Gracie derangement syndrome.

[@kenlangens9805]

I am a Black belt in judo (kodokan)and a Blue belt in bjj, and I can Tell doing a spiderguard with a judogi is much harder than in a bjj gi cause thé sleeves are way stiffer!

[@Reddragondiaries]

so true

[@elmariachi6798]

ken langens Why would u mention your belt to talk about gi difference. I don't know why, but my Gracie Barra gi is way tighter and stronger than my judo gi.

[@jonathanclark2072]

Great video! I studied traditional Judo, and never heard of Kosen until very recently. It almost reminds me of jujitsu.

[@abbisgm3453]

Because Bjj was born from that kose judo or newaza judo which is ground techniques

[@francoooi7444]

awesome video! I recently joined a judo dojo for the first time in my life and I get owned all the time when doing floor work. These guys in the video are extremely skillful. Each move has a purpose and I see so many attacks and counter attacks happening constantly. Unlike me, I just flail around and get pinned all the time. Again, great great video. Thank you for uploading it.

[@afrosattva]

Speaking as a former and hopefully soon to return to the mat BJJ guy, I love Kosen Judo. When I was focusing on gi work back in the day, I would always watch Kosen Judo stuff. For no-gi, I would either watch something like ADCC or old shoot matches from Japan.

[@kipallen1284]

Basically What Your Telling Us Is Luta Livre Which Is Freestyle Wrestling/ Catch As You Can Mixed With Kosen Judo =Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

[@BloodofPatriots]

Kosen is a rule set, not separate from Kodokan Judo. Just as IJF/Olympic Judo is a rule set. It's all Kodokan.

[@gabbar51ngh]

Kip Allen Wrestling predates all these martial arts. Mallayudha in ancient India was strictly grappling but led to creation of Kushti and Pehelwani which is traditional Indian wrestling popular to this day

[@m5a1stuart83]

Saral Thakur every nation has their own folk wrestling...

[@juniyananajukyu]

As a bjj practicioner, I think this is awesome to see!!

[@Reddragondiaries]

same here.

[@RyanManggala]

true

[@juniyananajukyu]

Paco Incest, with that said, you're free to think whatever you want to think. Instead of getting all worked up about plagiarism, why not embrace both styles, all styles!

[@gentilewarrior]

You can thank Judoka grandmaster Mitsuyo maeda for emigrating to Brazil and teaching his art to the Gracies.

[@juniyananajukyu]

therealist yup! I'm totally aware of that. As part of my trip to Tokyo last year, I actually visited the Kodokan to pay my respect to Kano Jigoro and to the art of Judo, as my sensei is a 3dan in judo.

[@gualdacolorao]

It´s a very good video. Hips exercices are really good to learning scape in the floor or when randori or competition finish at floor. That ouchikomi part is also an awesome filming. Peace buddy.

[@Reddragondiaries]

Thanks so much. It was a great class to watch and these are some serious players

[@elmalifico3708]

This is pretty awesome. I remember seeing an instructional video from one of the practitioners who popularized this style. Really good stuff that I added to my grappling game. I wish this style of Judo was more popular

[@jimmynich4791]

For me the IOC has somewhat nerfed Judo, I mean it's great that it's in the Olympics and I get that they changed the rules for safety reasons most likely but I feel they've taken something away from it.

[@jasperjasjas9669]

During the time of Ptofessor Jigoro Kano. He separete grappling as Kosen judo ang throwing as Kodokan Judo. Both extract from Japanese Jiujitsu. .

[@descendre]

Thank you for sharing. This is so illuminating. Currently doing Kodokan Judo, but I've had a little bit of experience in BJJ. This seems to bring it all together history wise.

[@Reddragondiaries]

Kosen isn't very common in Japan but it is a good variation of standard judo. Japanese judo places a lot of emphasis on newaza as it is, so Kosen isn't really necessary in my opinion.

[@mikegreen5502]

​@@Reddragondiaries beautiful video I really enjoyed it and why is that why don't the Japanese make Kosen JUDO into it's own art form subsidiary of JUDO why is trained or taught only during college years ?

[@danle3181]

@@mikegreen5502 Because Kosen is not a style. It is all Kodokan judo. If you look at the meaning of Kosen, you have your answer. This is the "kind of" judo practiced in the seven Universities in Japan, nothing more, nothing less. Those universities have their own competitions and they go by the Kosen rules, not the Kodokan ones. You must know that IJF also have different competition rules than the ones applied in the Kodokan competitions. So, Kodokan, IJF and Kosen are all (Kodokan) judo.

[@harlemkham7650]

I took a few BJJ classes before. It just wasn't my taste. But I can agree with @Guald that the warm ups / exercises are great for the hips and other body movements.

[@thedelirantapprentice5521]

I want to go so badly there right now xD on a serious note, the vibe must be amazing there. Training at 35°C surely is a nice challenge. Thanks for sharing the video

[@LP_APUgamer]

Thank you very much for bringing this content to us!

[@davielias4404]

I miss your judo videos.

[@devriestown]

VERY COOL. And im happy you take the time to explain everything.

[@BusanKevin]

Awesome video Tom. Enjoyed watching it a lot. Damn..those guys are so tough to train like that in this heat!

[@Reddragondiaries]

Thanks, Kevin. I was sweating a lot just standing around taking pictures. To go full bore for 3 hours is complete insanity!

[@fartsare2023]

+Red Dragon Diaries Hey Tom. Good to hear from you again. Does the Kodokan still govern the Kosen Judo movement? Are they just a subset of Kodokan Judo?

[@chrisdonovan8795]

+Paul Daluz It's a good question, and I''m curious to know the answer, but in the end, as long as there are practicing fans of Kosen Judo and BJJ, it does not matter if the Kodokan is involved. The way that outside pressures have already changed Judo is sad.

[@fartsare2023]

The Grim Jester (Chris Donovan) YES. Very true. But for the sake of curriculum continuity there has to be a Patron of the lineage . ( Carlos and Helio Gracie for BJJ and Jigoro Kano for Judo ). For example who awarded these guys in the video their blackbelts? It really doesnt matter but I'm just curious.

[@Reddragondiaries]

I'm not sure

[@genso3065]

Thanks for sharing. I just recently started training in judo. Also, my wife's family is in Kyoto. I just tried to search for a dojo has judo traininy in seikacho area in Kyoto and stumbled on this video which my wife graduated from Kyoto university which is cool to find this video. I would love to see kodokan judo technique. The discipline is these conditioning workout is intense.

[@JonSmex]

I like your videos very much. They always have good content and are enjoyable to watch. Keep up the good work.

[@pingislife2653]

Thank you very much for putting this informative video together!

[@marcusfamo8154]

Wow well made video. Love how it just rides out to mellow music and ne wazza. Lovin it.

[@pelejahosoba5280]

I would have excelled more in kosen judo than kodokan judo,my randori sucks but my newaza is awesomely and devastatingly good,am very powerful and much in control and have confidence on the ground or during newaza,unfortunately no kosen judo in Nigeria

[@ericrolston1836]

Start a bjj gym bro.. similar, but more popular and marketable

[@pelejahosoba5280]

@@ericrolston1836 Tanks bro, but my nave and randori is now good,and I don't like bjj at all,I prefer judo and can never be a marketer of bjj

[@TheBnm120]

speaking of heat 35 degree Celsius is the tempreture at 7 A.M. at my town

[@Reddragondiaries]

yikes!

[@VEGETADTX]

Excellent video as always Tom! :) I like the 30-70% ratio in Kosen Judo much better, but hey this comes from someone who used to train some no-gi BJJ, so I guess I'm biased :D

[@Reddragondiaries]

Thank you

[@ivelinadermendjieva3639]

Agree of course...bjj is just modern kosen judo

[@jeremylarcher3981]

Hey I was there in the 2016 summer as well! From end of June to end of August doing an internship at Kyoto University, I usually visited the open mat on Saturdays for some ground work.

[@harlemkham7650]

You just raised your personal bar higher once more. I am a white belt in Judo. While looking up videos I came across Kosen Judo. But all of the footage is vintage. I am extremely thankful that you made this video. Will you take part in any of the Kosen Judo classes in the near future?

[@Reddragondiaries]

I live in Hiroshima so there are no places in my town. I may visit the other universities in the future though.

[@topnotchpinas4244]

Go train harder when I was a white belt there where 70 plus of us 63 quit only 7 made it to yellow belt....Sydney Olympic judo

[@tobypresnell316]

I loved your video, thank you so much for sharing! I am traveling through Kyoto in the spring and might want to stop in and train here. Is this advisable to a foreigner a bit past his prime?

[@GoldenFerdinand]

now i miss my old judo classes and matches. great video!

[@annaeembinannahari2516]

(B)razilian (J)iu (J)itsu or, (B)asically (J)ust (J)udo it doesn't matter. i still learn.

[@marksanford3373]

Kosen judo was developed in 1882 brazilian jujitsu came a judo instructor who competed in challenge matches against both boxers and catch wrestlers he added these techniques to judo which he then taught to many Brazilian martial artistes this is how bjj was developed!!!!!

[@FikriKawakibi]

Same root, *much* different rules

[@m5a1stuart83]

@@FikriKawakibi Kosen Rules far better than BJJ, atleast Kosen allow throw and slam for Ippon. While BJJ... No... right?

[@FikriKawakibi]

@@m5a1stuart83 ijf rule is watered down, ibjjf rule is watered down. Kosen is less limited than both combined. More like the most original form of judo

[@bigtimepimpin666]

5:40 anyone else thinking "I am Cornolio, are you threatening me"?

[@JG-qi7kp]

The Cornholio guard pass

[@Roosyer]

Hahahaha you guys are funny! :)

[@MrPotatoesLatkie]

I read a comment by an old Japanese Sensei who said that the rules and focus on grappling started during a time when Judo wasn't well known in Japan. The new college students had no experience with any martial art. Learning Tach-Waza well enough to compete in a tournament took several years, but ground grappling only took about 6 months practice for someone to start competing. I've heard that BJJ is growing in Japan. I wonder if Kosen students enter those tournaments?

[@kabukiman1981]

Check out Koji Komuro, Kosen Judo guy who was given an honorary BJJ black belt.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

Yuki Nakai a Kosen Judo guy who fought in MMA and BJJ tournaments he was also awarded a honorary BJJ blackbelt after beating a bunch BJJ guys.

[@patrickfowler590]

Hyperborean Colonialism That is not true, he was awarded a black belt after years of training at Gracie Barra

[@patrickfowler590]

aramis cabrera. I think you may be confused, I'm talking about Yuki Nakai. Even Yuki Nakai said that even though he knew he could not fight MMA anymore, that he thought he could bring up the level of Japanese ground fighting by learning Jiu-Jitsu and even in interviews it said he, directly quoted, trained with many Jiu-Jitsu masters, starting with Ending Inoue and ending with Carlos Gracie Jr. He only said that Judo made the transition to Jiu-Jitsu Jitsu easier for him. And his background was in Judob and also Shooto, as trained by the original Tiger Mask and Shooto founder Satoru Sayama, who was trained in Sambo, catch wrestling, and Judo. And you are right, Komoru was awarded his BB in Jiu-Jitsu, but he did not do so well in competition, losing to Nakai's star pupil, Shinya Aoki and Bibiano Fernandes. Don't get me wrong, I have done historical research, based on primary and secondary sources, and it was not Kano who added any of the ground fighting in Judo, who hated ground fighting and said that "human beings were not to stand not crawl" (Stevens), and Helio Gracie did not invent the leverage in Jiu-Jitsu, as even non-Gracie lineages (See Fadda) were using approximately the same technique up until the 1970s and 1980s when people like Marcio Stambowsky, then people like Roberto Magalhaes, to people many others started to develop the Jiu-Jitsu guard. It was however, Mataemon Tanabe who challenged, beat, and taught and inspired Judo to learn "ne waza", whose slight build made him develop leverage based newaza (Great Japan Judo History), and whose, humble nature, which resulted in history forgetting him, gave the technique for ground fighting in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

Go to the Gracie Barra database and type in Yuki Nakai- it list him as an honorary BJJ black belt from competing, meaning he never formally studied BJJ, but he trained with BJJ fighters. Checkmate

[@cat1400]

Beautiful

[@mitchjames9350]

I wish I had a judo school like this near where I live.

[@Zikofj]

Great video. Comepeting in Kosen this Saturday. Osss

[@MrBelikewater]

This is my thing, I never really liked Kodokan Olympics way of looking at it!

[@user-su6lj9ru4h]

awesome video

[@Reddragondiaries]

Thank you

[@adamflynn2673]

Great video, and this was certainly the school that BJJ came out of. But in the modern world there is lots of give and take, and I wonder how many of those guys train and compete in BJJ as well. I've seen other videos of older Kosen judo practices and I've never seen guys playing spider hook and inverted guard before...

[@Reddragondiaries]

I believe judo or kosen judo is a foundational element of BJJ. However, in terms of the sheer gene pool size, BJJ is progressing and evolving beyond what kosen can offer both in technique and in quality of players. Kosen is essentially only practiced in Japan, and even here, you'd be hard pressed to find access to it. BJJ you can find all over the place.

[@kigawman]

If you want a guy who is both a legit black belter in *Kosen Judo and bjj*, one of them is Mikio Oga: oga-dojo.jimdo.com/

[@mongolchiuud8931]

Koji Komuro

[@kigawman]

Internet Jotunn Yes, I indicated that earlier.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

And what technique in BJJ thats not found in Kosen Judo canon other then Rubber guard?

[@checkacola]

Awesome video!

[@checkacola]

It's interesting to see Japanese culture videos

[@Reddragondiaries]

thank you

[@oneguy7202]

Maeda has nothing to do with kosen but joe moreira and oswaldo alves have, they studied kosen and take all techniques to bjj especially alves he also claim that invented these techniques until 1970 bjj/gjj has 5 sweeps and there arent side control and wristlocks, modern sport bjj it s just kosen judo

[@juliencharlet3672]

Yeah, I read that Oswaldo Alves went to Japan in the 1970's and studied under Judo newaza specialists and brought back to Brazil with him the acquired knowledge of side control techniques. Alves showed the Gracies what he had learned in Japan. Alves is a 9th degree red belt. Here's the link: www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/osvaldo-alves-facts-and-bio

[@aluisiofsjr]

@ , what? What African martial arts Capoeira came from??? There are nothing similar in Africa. Can you send the YT video, please?

[@luisphilipesilva]

I love the art , it should be showed to the world like they did with kodokan judo ...I do GJJ , but I would love to learn this part of judo or even better learn all judo , kodokan with kosen judô I know it's all kodokan judo in the bigening but they got separated I don't know why . But if I could I would learned all the curriculum of old judo , kosen included ...

[@teovu5557]

Kosen Judo isnt a separate organization or system from the kodokan................It is just a RULESET played within the Kodokan, Kosen Judoka get their belts from the Kodokan,are members of the Kodokan and Kosen Judo games are sanctioned by the Kodokan. The whole system is the same as the Kodokan the only difference is there allowed unlimted time on the ground.........I dont know why ya'll keep speaking about Kosen and Kodokan as if it were a different organization.....

[@MrBluemanworld]

I want to go to Judo heaven and be thrown in the air by Jigoro Kano and the other great Judokas, and laugh and giggle in bliss as I'm spun through the air....

[@samuelhite2887]

Damn, that was a beautiful thing to read. Thank you

[@marcelodiaz5006]

as a BJJ guy, i gonna say it: I love kosen judo. I always says that pull guard in a fight is pretty mean, the stand up game is important too in bjj and i don´t like how many bjj guys don´t take care of it. But i came dissapointed for the judo guys attitude, i hope someday will change that arrogance and god complex (totally far from the jigoro kano lessons). i wish that someday, the people will understand this and, even, can do 50/50 of judo and bjj. Great video!

[@Mobile-km1qi]

Great training.

[@bigmember5908]

I liked the use of the lapel to help the pass around 7:40

[@myungkwak0311]

Great video by the way

[@muhammadalifaruqi1928]

Great video. Just one question. Are leg locks and neck locks allowed in kosen judo in randori and competitions and do they enroll foreigners as their students, not as a full time university student but specifically for kosen judo. Sorry that's two questions.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

No cranking chokes and leg locks. Though they are taught in training.

[@muhammadalifaruqi1928]

And do they enroll foreigners as their students?

[@duncansutherland47]

Well yes, that could "potentially" be a problem but if taken into consideration a closed guard could also be beneficial. There are many options from a closed guard one of which is opening your guard.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

You can slam from guard in Kosen Judo. So why would they lock up a full guard? Fun Fact: Slamming from guard is illegal in BJJ.

[@duncansutherland47]

Humperdoo I am well aware of that fact, thank you. My only point is that using a closed guard gives you more options than purely an open guard philosophy. Any experienced BJJ or GJJ practitioner would release their guard if necessary. Slamming is not as easy as you seem to indicate with two equally sized opponents. Some Jiu-Jitsu practitioners have such a lethal closed guard that attempting to stand is virtually impossible and could get you in serious trouble. Once again, I'm not saying closed guard is better or vice versa. My initial point was that it would be a good option in some circumstances of Kosen Judo. Respect 🙏

[@mongolchiuud8931]

You do know the closed guard is rarely used in high level BJJ and grappling anymore other then MMA. lol Just watch any BJJ tournament and tell me how many closed guard you see now....nothing but 50/50,x-guard,worm guards and de la riva with people rolling into berimbolos these days. Also Slams from guard are banned in BJJ for a reason. its very easy and people get their backs hurt all to often. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4iTXnmqprh5gtU "“There is a great misunderstanding about the open guard. The great revolutionary of the open guard game was professor Helio Gracie. Fighting from the guard position was one of the great weapons developed by Dom Helio Gracie. To help the weaker person beat a stronger and heavier opponent. The key element of the ‘true’ Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has always been the open guard, which was passed down to us by Dom Helio and Dom Carlos”. www.bjjheroes.com/featured/the-open-guard hehe

[@duncansutherland47]

Humperdoo thank you for the video compilation and article. While the video definitely shows some serious violations it does not effectively argue the counter to the point I was making that in some scenarios of the Kosen Judo sparring a closed guard would be helpful or effective. The video cherry picked those scenarios and was not intended to argue closed guard vs open guard. In addition, that was never the point I was making. The article you linked was interesting and sung the praises of Grand Master Helio's use or invention of the closed guard to deal with some opponents. If you think an open guard is far superior and you would there for never use a closed guard then I wish you all the best of luck with that.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

Duncan Sutherland the article is actually saying the open guard is more effective then closed guard, and that people wrongly believe he favored a closed one. A famous saying from Helio Gracie is everything comes from an open guard. You have to open your legs in order to position your self for a technique. Closed gaurd is only for stalling. Lol

[@Nyumc99]

Karateka here. Takeing my kids to explore martial arts other than karate, we met a jjj sensei 40 years in, I think he said 5th dan, who gave us a moment of his class time to question him. He told us that jjj is judo , with all the nasty bits put back in . ! OSS

[@francescob1759]

wonderful video

[@yohnnyg]

thank you for sharing!

[@shalvenic3948]

I’m still kinda confused though Kosen Jūdō is Kodokan Jūdō it’s just a different variation of rules. So does this mean let’s say you go to a tournament the tournament will have traditional/standard Kodokan rules in which 70 percent standing 30 percent groundwork or will it will be Kosen in which 30 percent standing and 70 percent ground work? And what are the other variations of Kodokan Jūdō like are there different branches of it like how there are different branches of let’s say karate? Also where would I go to to train if I wanted to learn more standing techniques than ground techniques or vice versa if I wanted to practice Jūdō?

[@joaocarlos6417]

Muito legal, kosen judô é muito parecido com o jiu jitsu

[@dylan_krishna_777]

If this style wil ever enter europe the classes will be packed!

[@AIRWOLF3636]

Amazing!! big part of my game, I feel like this is more practical for me in my BJJ game.

[@6bullets903]

Waw beautiful

[@_RYEN_]

After they reach the ground what's next? Is there points for passing guard and such or just submissions?

[@teovu5557]

there are advantages which can be used as a tie breaker for passing and sweeping guard. and ippon/total victory for submissions and 20 sec pins.

[@duglyduckling]

at 03:25... did the judoka get choked unconscious fully? During the 3 hour training, is it common in Kosen judo to choke to KO?

[@Reddragondiaries]

no he tapped

[@ChamorruWarrior]

I am a BJJ guy and my wife and I are going to Japan in a couple months and I will dedicate a week of the trip to studying Judo. I was going to go to the Kodokan but I wonder if my time would be better spent studying Kosen Judo. Any thoughts from anyone is welcome. I have no experience studying martial arts in Japan and cannot wait to live out the small but valuable experience.

[@Reddragondiaries]

What city will you be in? If Tokyo, I would recommend going to the Kodokan. It's a special place. There are many universities too, but you'll have to contact them directly which takes some work. Same for the Kosen university there.

[@danle3181]

So, what did you chose ?

[@rodrigogaleano5145]

Awesome graplers. Good video

[@mattsmith111991]

Hey Tom I recently earned my black belt in judo. this video was great miss seeing your sensei from Korea though. which do you prefer more tachi waza or newaza? I always like doing 50/50 but most schools unfortunately forget about self defense do you just practice (sport) judo or judo as a whole? I also practice many other arts ( aikido jujutsu and silat) to help with self defense.

[@Reddragondiaries]

Well, although all judo causes great pain and suffering (lol), the lesser of two evils for me as I get older is newaza.

[@chrisdonovan8795]

I just finished my Saturday Judo practice, and for a change, we allowed for transitioning to the ground for a few moments during tachi randori. I think that this transition is the missing link in many Judo practices.

[@燕北山前萬梅山莊主人]

This is the traditional Judo, and Kyoto University is not a kōtō senmon gakkō (高等専門学校) (kōsen 高專) but one of the seven Imperial Universities 帝国大学, teikoku daigaku. These seven universities have their own league based on traditional judo rules.

[@DavidisDawei]

Practical training. If a fight isn't ended early, they usually go to the ground

[@monta2max]

Making my trip to japan tommrow. Really want to visit here.

[@dimitrisdm6997]

did you?

[@andreamoboe]

Wow! Awesome 😀

[@laszlomozes1396]

Awsome video Tom, as a BJJ practicer, I am thankful for this guys to create our sports basics! ;)

[@Reddragondiaries]

thank you. I'm glad they are keeping this style alive

[@duncansutherland47]

It's very interesting but it seems a closed guard would be more helpful in many of the circumstances shown.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

Closed guard is hardly really used in BJJ tournaments anymore either. And unlike BJJ in Kosen Judo you can "SLAM from closed Guard"....Think about that for a moment. lol

[@pizzacrusher4632]

That one guy looks like Kosei Innue.

[@kibeina9282]

i first know about kosen judo and mifune judo from Shin Kotaro manga. then i think, BJJ can't claim the best ground fighting again.

[@bundy4prez462]

Hey the Gracies and Brazilians should sue Japan for stealing their art and calling it theirs. Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

[@Ivuspp]

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu - Basically Just Judo Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu looks just like Judo, because it is Basically Just Judo. When Mitsuyo Maeda, a.k.a. "Conde Koma", began teaching Carlos Gracie in Belem do Para, Brazil in 1917, he was teaching Jigoro Kano's Jiu-Jitsu direct from the Kodokan in Japan. The name "Judo" was not popularized until 1925. Mitsuyo Maeda was a Kodokan Judo instructor whose specialty was ground fighting (newaza). This type of ground-only fighting is often referred to as Kosen Judo, or High School Judo, because it was popularized in Japanese High Schools as a form of interscholastic wrestling. Kosen Judo rules allowed direct transition to newaza, enabling scenarios where one less skilled competitor could drag the other down to the ground (a tactic now known as "pulling-guard" in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu). There is absolutely no question that the Gracie family demonstrated great skill and marketing acumen by promoting "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to the masses. Helio Gracie's loss to Kodokan Judoka Masahiko Kimura was advertised as a "moral victory". More importantly, the Gracies sponsored the original Ultimate Fighting Championships when the world was begging for a professional combat sport with more depth than Boxing and more realism than the WWF. However, there is now a generation of Jiu-Jitsu students who only know half the story. Worse yet, they are often paying enormous prices for the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu name only to learn a subset of Jigoro Kano's original Jiu-Jitsu techniques and teaching methods. The Judo world has not been without fault too. High ranking judoka often looked down on the new popular MMA world due to Judo's Olympic status. As a result, most Judo schools have been over-emphasizing the throwing techniques within Judo due to pressure from the International Olympic Comittee to increase ratings on TV for the brief moments when Olympic Judo would receive air time. Similarly, there is a generation of Jiu-Jitsu students, and now instructors, who incorrectly think Judo is nothing but a standing sport. Fortunately, the phenomenal success of Ronda Rousey, 2008 Olympic Judo Bronze Medalist and UFC / MMA Champion has brought attention back to the accurate history of Judo and its rightful place in the Jiu-Jitsu grappling world.

[@PR_GTR]

Kasen judo was practice in Japón in the 1898 what are you talkin about homeboy jajajaja

[@rodrigomichalzechen]

We never steal anything we basic called Jiu-Jitsu because was the name that we learn the art, but the Japanese call us out saying this is not jiu-jitsu, so we change to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but the rules and the emphasis are the way we Brazilians saw as most effective.

[@PR_GTR]

He's right is today different type of jiu jitsu different types of jiu jitsu a different names because it's difference Style

[@mtango9985]

more like other war around, Kosen judo was before bjj.

[@SaftonYT]

I wonder if these guys drill the forbidden leg locks on a regular basis.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

Leg locks are used to stall in Kosen Judo tournaments you just cant apply pressure or pain or make your opponent submit, kind of like how you have "headlock" in freestyle and folk style wrestling but you cant use it for submission just as a position, or how they use the double wrist lock in freestyle wrestling to throw and go for a pin but not a actually lock in to a submission. Confusing I know. Fun fact: In Kosen judo you can leg reap but not leglock(for submisson/pain) just to hold your opponent thats all. Fun fact 2: Leglocks are a requirement for advancement in standard Judo as its a part of its KATA practice(Katame no Kata has a knee bar in it..) In kosen style judo its a team sport where one team with the most people left in it wins(elimination style judo) when a weaker Judoka is called out by a stronger one and has a higher chance of losing they will go for a "draw" by stalling sometimes by sticking you in the closed guard til the time runs out(5-10 minute matches) or use a leglock(more like a leg wrap since you cant use it as a submission).. like in this video where the smaller japanese judoka uses a ankle wrap to ride the time limt out or go for a sweep- kzbin.info/www/bejne/fouYommDnreEgJI

[@SaftonYT]

@@mongolchiuud8931 Thank you! That's very informative. It's interesting learning about this side of Judo.

[@mongolchiuud8931]

@@SaftonYT Check out some of their techniques in slightly more detail(though you probably saw this video already haha) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qX3FlnquZd5rldk

[@Algebrodadio]

Training that hard, those Kosen Judo guys are probably tough as nails.

[@caradoc6]

Maybe i'm wrong but it seem's that they don't want to use triangle (i'm pretty sure that he could at 6:40)

[@zambimaru]

Judo Schools should teach more ne waza if they wanna gain more popularity.

[@guilhermeferreira8288]

Kioto até famous ne waza figters, Police academy there até really strong

[@chueri]

BJJ is a fork from 1920´s Kodokan Judo

[@PR_GTR]

Kosen judo is the cousin of BJJ... and kosen is in Japón and BJJ is in Brasil is the same thing.

[@danle3181]

Kosen judo is not the COUSIN of Bjj. Kosen judo is still Kodokan judo. Judo is the FATHER of bjj.

[@robotsrevenge56]

Fascinating

[@DKYtut]

alot of classes in korea or japan seems pretty small with few members, maybe because most people there only focus on their studies?

[@Reddragondiaries]

that or because judo is for people who like pain lol

[@PitBlackBelt]

I want to visit here.

[@markd2797]

You sound exactly like CGP Grey.

[@MelleHaanen]

Is it just the light or do they wear unbleached gi?

[@Reddragondiaries]

Maybe lol. I think that much ground work will permanently change the tint of the color over time.

[@Sr.D]

Yes, and the Gracies go running and called "brazilian"...

[@gabbar51ngh]

Sr. D they are sore losers nothing else. Lying and cheating.

[@hbskull321]

Up until Rorion branded the name "Gracie Jiujitsu" (clever businessman he is), most people in brazil just called it "Jiujitsu" with lots of variations in spelling shown in newspapers from the years since some of the first "Jujitsu" (before the "Jiudo/Judo" name came about) matches, which were part of the early professional wrestling shows in theatres in brazil. The only real reason the name "Brazilian Jiujitsu" came about was to differentiate it from the Japanese Jujutsu styles in the west, which were more traditional so to speak, with kata, standing wrist locks and strikes etc.

[@wayne47able]

BJJ and Kosen Judo are similar but not the same

[@sdaiwepm]

Beautiful. Interesting. Basically - BJJ without the bling.

[@muaythaikicks3418]

Bjj comes from judo every thing that's in bjj is in judo so just judo

[@marcelodiaz5006]

@@muaythaikicks3418 the rubber guard comes from judo? the twister, or the darc´e choke?

[@muaythaikicks3418]

@@marcelodiaz5006 you may rename the house style what ever you want but the foundation comes first

[@marcelodiaz5006]

@@muaythaikicks3418 using that logic, judo is just japanese jiu jitsu. Ah, and i agree with your name hahaha

[@muaythaikicks3418]

@@marcelodiaz5006 yes have a nice night🌙🌠 nohomo tho

[@gentilewarrior]

Kosen Judo/kodokan judo is simply the antecedent/forerunner of BJJ there really isnt any difference between the 2 except one was developed in Brazil by KosenJudo/kodokan Judo master Mitsuyo Maeda 100 or so years ago.

[@jimmynich4791]

I think when Maeda went to Brazil Kodokan Judo was a lot like what BJJ would later become and while Maeda was out of Japan Jigaro Kano changed the rules of Judo to focus more on throws but kept Kosen Judo rules in some universities. That's my understanding of it, I might be wrong though. I think it stems from when a traditional Jujitsu school in Japan defeated Kano's Judokas utilising ne waza then Judo changed for a while to adapt to that.

[@saroeungsrey6315]

Partly true, the myth is that ground techniques come from Fusen Ryu but there is no ground work in any fusen schools. The ground game as we know it today comes from Tanabe Mataemon he was a fusen ryu guy but the ground work was his own invention cooked up in the 1890s at the Handa Dojo simply to counter Judo's crazy throwing skills and took off from there and got absorbed into Judo and in Brazil became GJJ.

[@danle3181]

Maeda was 100% Kodokan. He was in no way affiliated with Kosen Judo.

[@giovanni-hf9uo]

I like the song used whats its name

[@spitzfire1107]

Kosen Judo is a good alternative for BJJ.

[@jiugracie1088]

Gostei desses drills.